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Treatment of Animators bear 05/28/2020 (Thu) 00:52:54 No. 626
Discussion of the way that Animators are treated in the Anime industry. Firstly. why are animators treated like shit? Why don't they try forming unions? You're thoughts on this whole Animator Dormitory project? How can the West (I'm assuming that most of Bunkerchan is yankees and eurofags) help?
>>626 For as positive as Animator Dormitory project is, taking a look at its gofundme page isn't inspiring. I feel spoiled, but all it amouunts to is housing assistance and job training. Something that even a yankee can expect to be provided by the government or an employer. Not that housing assistance is usually provided by an employer, but there has been a history in which employers would provide housing (free of charge or a rentier.) Corporate dormitories carry more a stigma in the West, but I believe they might be prominent in Japan because employees tend to stay overnight. Japan seems to have a union presence, but it's been on the decline. I remember reading that labour unions are beneficial to Japanese productivity, so that could be indicative of Japanese unions' collaboration with the bourgeoisie.
What is sad is how many of these animators and mangaka die young, and often of suicides. Or they damage their hands or their eyes trying to meet the strict deadlines and can no longer work on their craft. I think it'd be cool to marry an artist and be able to financially support that person in return for feeling like you subconsciouly affected a piece of art and would leave a legacy.
Asian Boss is pretty reactionary but they did a cover of an animator who did work for BNHA and other popular shows and she described the tough living. Its played as a joke in To-Love Ru with Rito's father being an over-worked Mangaka who is never home.
>>626 > Why don't they try forming unions? A South Korean socialist on r*ddit was talking about how they legit send death squads to your house if you try to organize. Maybe nips have something similar.
>>631 Not really, but when they unionized and striked in the 70s, the companies simply outsourced the job to SK since the Japanese laws prohibits hiring scabs. Animators have no bargaining power and are one the most exploited categories of workers in the first world, despite technically being professionals. KyoAni is the only good anime company and some schizo decided to burn it all down, fuck.
>>626 Can we use the poor treatment of animators to redpill western anime fans on labor rights and unions? Drives me insane how many of those fuckers piss and moan about the poor treatment of animators while being right wing shitheads who overlook the exploitation of labor they support in America.
>>633 We've tried they just think they deserve it. People were rubbing their hands in glee on /a/ when Kyo-Ani was burning.
>>632 >Be the only Japanese political party against big business and US occupation >leader gets assassinated by some schizo >Be the only Japanese animation studio treating workers well >Gets burned down by some schizo Really makes you think.
>>634 They were? I remember the opposite. But my memories of /a/ are a bit blurry.
>>636 I remember going between // and /leftypol/ and the /a/ fags were caught between cheering it on, and talking shit about how KyoAni took too long to release Seasons. Few of them were remorseful or saddened past their own selfish desires.
>>637 The people celebrating it were just being contrarian assholes like always. There's no doubt that was an opinion on /a/. Nonetheless, KyoAni still recovered despite the huge loss of life.
>>634 Wow, that's hard to believe. I can't imagine the /a/ I left in 2014 would have gotten that bad. /a/nons were shitty, but not like that.
>>628 >4,939 McDonald's Employee Salaries. McDonald's employees earn $20,000 annually on average, or $10 per hour, which is 106% lower than the national salary average of $65,000 per year. >CG animators make almost as much money as McDonald's workers.
>>640 In Japan is more convenient to work part-time in a konbini than to be an animator.
>>638 Well, I do remember them being that shitty when the big earthquake hit Japan.
>>639 Eh, its like /pol/ and other boards; the constant anti-PC dogma and tendency of social isolation and shit-talking spiraled into a shitshow
>>643 On the subject of Asian interview channels https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqmQcGwiXWg That Japanese Man Yuta is neat.
>>645 It's interesting that the most popular shows in that video are all things I've never heard of.
>>639 Mods have sucessfully purged board culture from /a/ years ago, combined with the surge in popularity of animu and election tourists have made the board a shadow of it former self.
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>all this bitching about CP and other freedom-shit <nobody talks about the animators and how they live
What effect does piracy online have on animation industry and the animation workers? What's the correct practice on this?
>>3468 Piracy affects the companies profits, the animators don't lose or gain money whether you buy the products or no.
Is it befitting for the communists that want the animators to have better working circumstances to refrain from piracy?
>>3493 >non-piracy While I don't bother pirating, I don't pay for anything either. It does NOTHING to help animators, and only gives the corporations who exploit them more money to do this exploitation. They're paid wages for their work (shitty wages but still wages) regardless of whether X or Y anime makes a profit.
>>3500 this. think of anime was a product, just like anything else. workers are expected to manufacture that product by a certain time frame and their financial compensation, whether it is on a per-hour, per-project basis, or otherwise, is accounted for before the profits even start to come in.
>>3493 Animators aren't working in terrible conditions because of piracy, shill.
>>3493 >>3500 >>3511 If I might interject for a moment, piracy is the theft of material goods on the high seas, often involving murder. Unauthorized copying is not piracy, it's simply reproducing information.
>>3519 Hacking is cutting something apart with wild swings so illegally entering another account or site is simply opening closed off information It's slang names that came into common use m8.
>>3520 Now you're confusing hacking with cracking! "Software piracy" was an attempt by idea monopolists to conflate humble data reproducers with cutthroat murders on the high seas. Continue to conflate the two at your own peril.
>>3519 shut up stallman, youre legitimately autistic
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>be animator >one of the most talented people on planet >paid like shit >no one knows your name >can't even find a picture of you on google >be seiyuu >muh tits >cancerous leech >everyone loves you >countless interviews >millionaire
>>628 >>5358 This is an unavoidable consequence of the market and animators can't do much about it except unionize and strike, which likely won't end well for them. What's interesting is that this seemingly has resulted in no consequence for the anime industry as a whole. You'd think eventually you'd just have a labor shortage.
>>5358 Because it's far easier to put a face to a seiyuu than one to an animator. Same reason people gush over actors and directors while ignoring every other aspect of a film that people have to make.
>>5358 rofl why did you copypaste the other thread here
>>5372 >more of the same cope Because your pointless thread is pointless and belongs in an already existing one. Hence the repost, and hence actual responses. sagеd for stupidity
>>5358 It's the way of capitalism Workers, artisans and peasants do the labour and creativity while the face of the product gets everything.
>>5358 Man, why did that guy destroy that manga? It didn't even look shit
>>5439 >Why Because consumerism -> wastefulness. There's a meme video where guy in a seagull mask is lying on the ground by a window and the camera-holder is throwing bread with "funny commentary:, 1 slice, 2 slices, 10, a whole fucking BOX of bread slices, enough to cover the person's upper body in bread slices... I don't think it was stale bread either.
>>5439 >>5442 It's because the girl on the first book's cover was implied to not be a virgin. No joke.
>>5452 ...sauce?! I need to know the details of such autism.
>>5477 This is the power of virgin inceldom... top kek
>>626 Japan has unbelievably bad worker culture, despite having actually a not completely shit safety net. Also the legal system is hellish so if you piss enough people up you're guaranteed a sentence, given their 90%+ conviction rate (I've seen it quoted as high as 99%), this is a powerful disincentive towards doing radical stuff. In the case of animators it's worse, like the games industry, which since they are seen as doing their "dream job" and as such are easily replaceable by some starry-eyed newbies. No parties either, the JCP is barely socdem at this point, and student activists (the remainder of the zengakuren) are literally spied on by the secret police 24/7, despite being totally irrelevant.
>>5365 too many young idiots dream of working in manga/anime, labor shortage is almost impossible
>>5499 >given their 90%+ conviction rate (I've seen it quoted as high as 99%) isn't this because prosecutors only choose to go forward with cases where they know they can get a conviction?
>>5501 Maybe so, I'm checking this article for source now: https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-topics/c05401/order-in-the-court-explaining-japan%E2%80%99s-99-9-conviction-rate.html >Take, for example, the investigation process. Suspects are denied access to a lawyer while being questioned in order to squeeze a confession out of them. Courts even allow the practice. There is also a heavy reliance on documentary evidence that creates a pretrial air of guilt that can influence how a judge tries a case. geez that's hellish >Naturally the prosecution goes to great lengths to ensure that criminals get their just deserts, but in doing so they also exercise a high degree of discretion in deciding which cases to pursue. Public prosecutors typically concentrate on suits where conviction is almost guaranteed, leading to the suspension of around 60 percent of criminal cases in Japan without an indictment. yep, you're right >The prosecution has too much authority and the defense has too little. This would not be the situation if Japan had a bona fide adversarial system, but the fact of the matter is that the balance of power in Japanese courts is skewed. in the end you're just about fucked if the prosecutor decides you're guilty, which is, erm, not exactly good. No wonder Phoenix Wright's bullshit 3 day trial system is a satire of the japanese legal system.
>>5501 Makes sense TBH >>5499 >unbelievably bad worker culture Comes from a historical culture of class-collaboration and hierarchy worship as well as autistic adherence to rules.
>>5499 Didn't the USSR also have this high of a rate of conviction?
>>3211 Can anyone actually claim that Crunchyroll, for all the problems it has, hasn't done more for animation workers than the prior unfavorable situation of rampant piracy? The Japanese companies had even said that piracy was one of the main problems that were detrimental for the industry?
>>5516 nah, piracy is pretty much a non-issue for the anime industry because most of their revenue is from being paid ads for books and selling crappy dvds/bds, which only people who really want to support the medium bought, since they're very expensive. crunchyroll just kinda colonized the fansub culture and raised some revenue out of it, but it's still afaik quite negligible in the scheme of things; netflix might be more relevant, given they actually have capital to invest
>>5516 No, not really. Crunchyroll exploits workers as much as any other company. >muh piracy Piracy has NO impact. Why? Because they're given a set wage for the work they've done. Whether or not sales go well has no impact on their wages as the profits (and losses) go directly to the companies and owners. It's why Mangaka are functionally better off, given that they do get Royalties off of a product, while animators typically do not, as anime royalties go directly to the company and "trickle down". >Japanese Companies said Japan is a well organized place and all, but their bureaucrats are largely scumbags, they don't like losing profits but that alone won't appeal to people's sense of justice. >>5515 No. It's just when you have a population reaching into the hundreds of millions, the number of criminals will still be higher in number. Proportionally the ratio is much smaller compared to Japan or the USA. Moreover the Soviet system didn't tend to have long prison terms, so a conviction had less impact typically and even then, a formal conviction would be given but informally waived with a warning for minor transgressions like hooliganism and other stuff.


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