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Chess Anonymous 08/06/2020 (Thu) 16:16:48 No. 3544
I'm making this thread here, because the other boards are practically dead. If a mod chooses to move it to /hobby/, that's cool, I just wanted some exposure on /leftypol/. As you might now, chess played a large role in the Soviet Union. They outright dominated the game for decades and it was commonly played ever since the inception of the union. I think chess does possess the potential to develop and train the strategic thinking skills of players, if they abstract from the game and attempt to apply it to the real world. But it's also a fun game. Because of that I made a /leftypol/ club on chess.com, which is a great website with a nice UI and plenty of resources to learn and improve at chess. I've been using it for months now and got far better at chess and I even do the puzzles on it for fun every day. The way the website is designed makes learning chess and improving really, really easy. Making an account is free and would be quick. I know this sounded like an ad, lol. So, I'm inviting you comrades to start learning chess or improve whatever skill level you are at and join the /leftypol/ chess club. We could play against each other. Perhaps even organize tournaments. I think it would be really cool if we could get something like this going and make it the community wide hobby. If only 3 people join that would be good enough honestly. Link https://www.chess.com/club/leftypol
definitely belongs to hobby, never been that good at it, but really would like to get into it.
>>3545 Yeah, I can recommend the site for that. They have chronologically ordered lessons with videos and related tests to make you apply what you've just watched. They also give you statistical feedback to everything. I'm currently at 'Winning with tactics'.
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Oh you mean go for dumb people? :^) but really chess is pretty fun
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I think memorization board games like chess and go are a total waste of time. AI made it completely meaningless. https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/27/20985260/ai-go-alphago-lee-se-dol-retired-deepmind-defeat
>>3544 >I think chess does possess the potential to develop and train the strategic thinking skills of players Chess was a big meme for decades in computer science, but what has come out of that aside from programs that are good at Chess? There was a lot speculation that coming up with programs that are good at Chess would somehow help with coming up with programs that are good at solving other problems. But can you give a single example for that? (In the USSR Mikhail Botvinnik shilled for that real-world connection and had nothing to show in the end.) >>3547 People who are relly good at Chess who start playing Go are much better at it right from the start than other noobs for some reason, even though in terms of programming a player it's extremely different from Chess. >>3548 Do bikes and cars make running competitions meaningless? Besides, there is the issue that some AIs are basically a black box even to the programmer, so that it's a mystery to explain how it makes its decisions. (At least for picture classification there is an approach that generates a heatmap picture that tells you which pixels in the original were regarded by the AI as strongly supporting the classification it chose in the end. For example, a picture with a train might show that the AI heavily relied on the rails and not the actual train to make the right call.)
>>3549 >But can you give a single example for that? They are programs for solving chess solely. Human beings can abstract and generalize.
how do I know whether I'm too retarded for chess? every time I try to learn I don't see any improvement and 99% of my moves are just blunders.
>>3551 in my university i had a chess trainer or however you call it. it is another way to learn to play chess
>>3550 Of course I didn't mean to poopoo on Chess programs for only being able to play Chess. That's not my criterion for judging the Computer-Chess hype as mistaken. The criterion is that the humans tackling Computer-Chess issues haven't learned insights transferable to other domains like economic planning. Botvinnik wrote a confused book where he repeatedly chanted that they were strong similarities between these topics, but it was just vague gestures. I suspect he wanted resources because of his interest as a Chess nerd. You know what would have been a killer argument? Coming up with rules for translating a scheduling problem into a Chess puzzle, so that a good player solving it has something that can be easily translated back to get a solution in the real world. But no translation recipe for something like that has been found.
>>3553 Hm, yeah you have a point. How much does being good at chess translate to understanding real life battle strategies better though?
>>3547 I fucking love go. I wish I had time to play it. I mostly just do tsumego on my phone when I have a few free minutes. I suggest everyone try it out. It's more complex and, I think, a much more interesting game than chess. The best place for English speaking beginners is OGS. It even has a tutorial teaching you the basics and a bunch of puzzles to learn. It's easiest to start on a 9x9 board, but you can do 13x13 or just start on the full 19x19 board if you want. Here are some links for anyone interested: This a western server good for beginners. It's in a browser so it's convenient. https://online-go.com/ This is a Japanese server and it requires a client download. https://pandanet-igs.com/communities/pandanet This is a Chinese server and it also requires a client download. I think one of the download links on the site includes a bunch of bloat or something. I use it the most, but the client is in Chinese and kind of hard to navigate. https://www.foxwq.com/ This is the Korean server. Yet another client you have to download. http://www.tygembaduk.com/ The Korean and Chinese servers have the most people. Chinese and Korean servers are also known for having a more aggressive and fast play style in general. I believe all the servers have phone apps, but they are pretty buggy in my experience.
I will move this thread later today to /games/ (which includes the discussion of all types of games not only video games). I think I will add the link to the /leftypol/ sticky if the rest of the mod team is OK with it.
>>3554 Not him, but I think Chess can teach you a good number "lessons" generally applicable to real life. How to think ahead, to make moves in anticipation for something much further down the road, to form your plans around what the enemy is doing or what you predict they're trying to do, to "think several moves ahead" based on cause and effect actions and reactions, to not get tunnel vision and focus entirely on one piece or area, but to consider the whole board, to alter your strategy to a changing situation, etc.
>>3557 I don't think people will generally learn these skill from playing chess, at least not to any great degree. Rather, I think, people with these skills are drawn towards these types of games.
>>3556 > I will add the link to the /leftypol/ sticky if the rest of the mod team is OK with it. That would be really cool, thanks. I‘d love to do tournaments among users.
>>3555 >This is a Japanese server and it requires a client download. >https://pandanet-igs.com/communities/pandanet The android client is quite good Also recommend crazystone
>>3558 These are skills you have to learn to get any good at these games.
>>3544 Chess and war are completely different. For instance, a war is never one vs one. There is always multiple games going on, with a lot of different group of interests. There will be infighting in every camp, there will be traitors and sabotage.
Chess is TRASH. 1. A lot of it is memorization. If you don't memorize the 20 different openings and standard counters you are automatically at a disadvantage. Don't give me that shit about "figuring it out yourself" it is mandatory to memorize this crap if you want to be even AVERAGE, let alone actually good at the game. 2. White's first turn advantage is retarded and the fact that no one can think of a way to balance the game after centuries is stupid. 3. It has literally zero relevance to strategy, tactics, and war. Its reputation as a trainer of generals and smart men is completely unearned and undeserved. FUCK CHESS.
>>3567 That's why there's Fischer random chess. It's much more fun than regular chess imo. It generally trains you in confrontations to rely on strategy instead of deception (like Poker), which is a good skill to have for any leftist.
>>3554 I strongly doubt that there is much of such an effect. Chess is too removed from reality, and this distance doesn't just come from abstraction, Chess is just weird. The terrain is flat and without any features, the rules of movement on this flat surface are bizarre, you can only move one of your units during your turn, and you kill by touching each other. I believe it makes more sense to play the war games of the 19th century Prussian army or a modern mutation of that. >>3567 1. I agree with >>3571 on that. Bobby Fischer came up with a variant where you get a randomized starting configuration (same for both players). 2. There is a general method for balancing games that have a first-turn advantage: After the first player moves, the second player can decide to switch places with the first player or continue playing like normally. Try both 1 and 2 together and see if you like it. 3. I'm 99.9 % with you on that point.
>>3567 I don't know much about war or chess, but Mao made comparisons between go(weiqi/weichi) and encirclement in On Protracted War. I've heard people say he and his generals played a lot of go, but I haven't actually seen a source on that. If any games are helpful it would be some kind of war games modeled on the real thing.
>>3567 All true but it's still fun to play
>>3544 >chess.com >not the superior and open-source lichess.org
>>6417 Cool, thanks for letting me know about this.
>>3571 Deception is handy tbh.
>>3555 Bro i tried learning go today and i played a game online with a 5x5 board. I lost by 36 points with territory scoring. How tf does that work? I’m so confused on the scoring, I had about as many pieces. Played on here fyi: https://www.cosumi.net/en/
>>6423 Go scoring is the territory you have surrounded with your stones + captures, iirc depending on the scoring system (Japanese or Chinese) adding unnecessary stones inside your own territory will actually lower your score
>>6434 God I cant figure out this territory scoring. It’s either a retarded system or I’m retarded, but I’m frustrated so I’m going to say territory scoring is retarded. Why can’t I just play old go rules online with just the pieces? I have a 5x5 matrix with 25 vertices and yet somehow I lose by 36 points. I thought the max would be 25 since its all the freaking territory. Then on top of that it looks like I captured some territory and the stupid AI just marks all my pieces as dead and I lose the game. Why does this game have such annoying rules?
>>6437 lmao how can you lose by 36 points on a 5x5 board, is it giving a retarded amount of komi to white? Can you post a screenshot? I'm curious.
>>3567 >2. White's first turn advantage is retarded and the fact that no one can think of a way to balance the game after centuries is stupid. You're supposed to play 2+ rounds dummkopf.
>>6442 Also at amateur level it doesn't really matter. I actually prefer playing as black since you are the one that dictates the opening
>>6439 I have no idea what the ai is doing to calculate the score. It’s saying I lost by 25 points on this game, how come I have territory at the top wtf? https://www.cosumi.net/en/replay/?b=You&w=COSUMI&k=0&r=w25&bs=5&gr=bdccdbdcbbbcddcdcbabceadecbeaadeacebeaedtttt&ds=aaeabbcbdbacec&bm=acc
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>>6449 update this game is retarded. There is no clear way to determine whose territory is what it seems arbitrary as fuck. Someone explain to me how "neutral" territory is even determined and why it didn't consider my pieces to surround the entire left side.
>>6450 Maybe you should actually read the rules?
>>6450 you can't just draw a line down the board and claim one side lol
>>6450 You lost by more than that Black can't make life
>>6450 you should learn about alive and dead groups: https://www.learn-go.net/
>>6470 to expand you have no space for eyes both of your groups are incredibly dead
>>6450 you tried to play connect four lmaooo 🤣
>>3567 >>3574 Honestly it sounds like a correlation = causation fallacy. Smarter people perform better in aspects of strategy, so it makes sense that a genius on the battlefield would have problem solving skills that transfer over into other aspects of life. I bet great war generals would have been better at, say, magic the gathering than average joe.
>>3574 I think that's just some cool Chinese aesthetic - Go has also been used by the Chinese to describe their Maritime policies in SEA. I wouldn't look too much into it.
https://www.mdpi.com/2409-9287/5/4/37/htm Go not chess but may as well keep this thread active and bumped
>>6517 Cool article, thanks for the poast!
Why are Gofags so incredibly insecure about Chess?


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