/gulag/ - Meta

Meta Board. Where you belong

catalog
Mode: Reply
Name
E-mail
Subject
Message

Max message length: 8192

Files

Max file size: 80.00 MB

Max files: 5

Password

(used to delete files and postings)

Misc

Remember to follow the rules


If you have questions or need answers you can contact the leftypol staff through matrix @ https://app.element.io/#/room/!RQxdjfGouwsFHwUzwL:matrix.org

How come nazbols are tolerated here? Comrade 11/23/2020 (Mon) 06:49:51 No. 8796
It's gotten so bad that w have nazbol namefags and that one nazbol preteen is still making threads. They bring nothing but idpol to the table (race, antisemitism, sexism, etc). Is this site finally cucked?
>>8796 They should just be insta-banned and deleted fro, this site. They have nothing to do with being "anti-imperialist" and everything to do with harboring reactionary politics. "Bourgeois decadence theory" is reactionary nazbol horseshit. A lot of what passes for "anti-idpol" especially on bunkerchan is nazbol idpol horseshit in disguise. Combatting the reactionary predilection of edgy social outcasts towards "race doesn't matter, all these social issues don't matter just talk about economics" must be a priority for all principled comrades
(30.64 KB 660x435 trump.jpg)
>>8796 >>8797 >"race doesn't matter, all these social issues don't matter just talk about economics" That's exactly the line we do take on idpol. The nazbol namefag is banned but evasion is going to be prevalent on a decentralized internet. Perhaps things slip by, we can't be everywhere. Report posts and they'll come to our attention. Beyond that there isn't much we can do.
>>8800 >the line we do take on idpol All too often opposing idpol is just a cover for being a reactionary. racism existed before capitalism and even mercantilism so there's something wrong with that line. Where is your evidence that racism will go away after the revolution? Explain why after lenin legalized homosexuality, Russian society was so extremely homophobic to the point where stalin decided to ban it again?
>racism = nazbol National bolsheviks was a faction within the German communist party. You should start by not calling nazbol everything you don't like.
>>8797 don't make this complicated bourgeois decadence = lifestyle of the bourgeoisie and the workers are allowed to look down on them there is no theory
>>8802 >racism existed before capitalism and even mercantilism so there's something wrong with that line. I'll bite. I'll grant you (for the sake of the argument) that racism has always existed, some people have always hated/feared/distrusted those who look different than them, sure. But, that does not mean it existed in the same form throughout history because the social/material conditions give it its form. So capitalism has given racism power because it concentrates capital (effectively power) in the hands of individuals, and individuals are prone to being racist. These racist individuals used their capital, power and influence so that these other races would be treated unfavourably. They did things like fund "race science" studies, publish newspaper articles, influence laws, petition the government, etc. This created material conditions where one race did better than another, people grew up seeing this discrepancy without knowing the cause, but accepting the lazy conclusion of "they live worse because they are worse", a conclusion supported by the media owned by the aforementioned racists. So no, racism is not a product of capitalism, but our current form of racism is. And getting rid of capitalism will not eliminate racism, but it will change the form racism holds. Specifically, it will remove the power that racists have in society. You might still have racists, but they will be powerless, unless they try to do physical harm, in which case they are not being only racist, but actively anti-social and they can be dealt with by the community. As long as racists keep their thoughts to themselves, they aren't a problem. You cannot eliminate "bad thoughts from people", nor should you try to by force. The best way to turn racists into anti-racists is to have them interact with the people they hate so that they can see that these are normal people just like they are. People who work and live together with other races are less racist than those who remain in a homogenous group. Opposition of idpol means three things: 1) rejection of racial and other identity categories, with the understanding that they are "real" categories that are given meaning by our current socio-economic system, and knowing that "abolition of identity" at this point in history is not possible, but is desirable as soon as possible; 2) rejection of liberal tactics to mitigate the problems of racism: inclusion of minorities in leadership for the sake of their identity, reparations, acceptance of racial guilt, affirmative action; 3) refusal to engage in "identity politics", like ignoring flaws and problems to win arguments and form a narrative, or preference of ideas based on the identity of the person from whom they come, things like that. The idea is that once everybody is working and living together as a class-conscious proletariat, notions of racism will simply wither away. We are materialists, we believe that the material world, our experiences of the physical reality, shape our ideas, and not the other way around. The way to make people not racist is not to convince them with some dank arguments, but to convince them with experience. Most racists rarely interact with the races they hate, except in passing or as participants in a market exchange, but never as people. Racists and the people they hate have more in common than not, and that's a fact. You can show people all the graphs you want, but until they actually engage with the others, no progress can be made. This means that no progress towards anti-racism can be made anywhere where only ideas are exchanged, like an imageboard. Discussion of the topic only lends importance to it and amplifies liberal and racist voices, while muting leftist voices, because both liberals and racists are against leftists. Having idpol discussion on bunkerchan would turn this place into a battleground between two sides we don't like. It makes no sense. As an aside, liberals and anti-racists have adopted the same categories racists use, but they try to use them "in a good way". Shit tactic because if you're trying to argue against someone's position, don't accept their wrong premises and then argue against the conclusion. The premises were literally designed to support their racist conclusion. It's a losing battle. Everything written here is my opinion and does not necessarily reflect the opinions of the rest of the volounteer team.
>>8804 the soviets gave everyone tickets to opera houses and art galleries that were previously only bourgeois decadence. If we grant that homosexuality is decadence, what makes it any different other than you personally don't like it? Just don't go to the opera house
>>8806 stop making this complicated the soviets gave everyone tickets to the people's opera houses and the people's art galleries, those weren't decadent because the workers could go. If only the bourgeoisie can go it's decadent.
>>8805 >The idea is that once everybody is working and living together as a class-conscious proletariat, notions of racism will simply wither away. this is utopian, people can't unite as a class-conscious proletariat and abolish capitalism as long as they hate each other because they think people are races and all the other competing groups. Even on this board with unanimous agreement on abolishing capitalism the mods have to clamp down on idpol because it turns into petulant infighting after three posts replies. Can't you see how much people torture each other with this stuff, they constantly have to defend their identity groups against attacks, the psychological pressure this inflicts on people is too much, it does more harm then good.
>>8808 >this is utopian, people can't unite as a class-conscious proletariat and abolish capitalism as long as they hate each other because they think people are races and all the other competing groups. No. It is utopian is to think that the key to communism is for everyone to love each other. People don't have to like one another to unite towards a common goal. The left is rife with splits and assassinations. Not everyone can like everyone, to think so is a liberal fantasy. The proletariat gains consciousness through real, lived struggle, not by becoming friends with one another. >Can't you see how much people torture each other with this stuff, they constantly have to defend their identity groups against attacks, the psychological pressure this inflicts on people is too much, it does more harm then good. We agree then, that we cannot have idpol discussion on this site, right?
>>8805 Oh I love these sperg out posts that are just a dry and idealist list of the standard Marxist bandaid thrown on things on this site saying this as a Marxist . The reality is racists losing power hasn't occurred and even existing socialism still had issues with racism and homophobia. Yes they were an oligarchic state socialism but dodging with, under a dotp blah blah, is as feckless as the ancoms and you know it. Capitalism ironically has done more to help the black man than white marxists saying any discussion of their position is idpol. Also if you are a leninist your entire goal is changing bad thoughts from people, revolution is inherently authoritarian, no double-think will change this. The above is used to dismiss any attempt to recognize the shitty situation many races find themselves in. Saying 'it will all be better after the revolution' when they can't eat is the height of elitism.
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
>>8802 >All too often opposing idpol is just a cover for being a reactionary. Yes. That's why we ban idpol. I've personally banned the nazbol at least 10 times.
>>8811 The reason that idpol is banned is not because "when socialism comes everything will be fixed". The anti-idpol take is not that recognizing racism as a serious problem is idpol. It is a nuanced take that many noobs do not have and instead opt for vulgar class reductionism.
>>8814 I'm not arguing against the mod policy here just the class reductionism. Here's Lenin saying the exact same thing, that a tribune of the people must fight and notice all injustice, this doesn't in any way go counter to maintaining the abolition of wage-labor: > It cannot be too strongly maintained that this is still not Social-Democracy, that the Social-Democrat’s ideal should not be the trade union secretary, but the tribune of the people, who is able to react to every manifestation of tyranny and oppression, no matter where it appears, no matter what stratum or class of the people it affects; who is able to generalise all these manifestations and produce a single picture of police violence and capitalist exploitation; who is able to take advantage of every event, however small, in order to set forth before all his socialist convictions and his democratic demands, in order to clarify for all and everyone the world-historic significance of the struggle for the emancipation of the proletariat
>>8797 >>8796 >they bring nothing but idpol <the example being the one obvious shitposter who namefags for the sake of their shitposting LOL we're lefty politically incorrect, not r/socialism. Not liking an ideology is not going to do anything about it, nor debunk it. >>8802 >it's a cover for reactionary! fuck off you've been whining about this on half a dozen threads for over a month already >>8808 >this is utopian Tell that to Lenin lol >as long as they hate each other because they think people are race If you bothered to read any of the FAQ - (though admittedly the Global Rules have still not been posted) - you'll notice that the stance of leftypol is against racism and sexism. This does not require unequivocal support of every jack and jill who LARPs as a socialist while pushing a liberal agenda. Radical liberals are still liberals. Black orWhite supremacists, neither are our comrades. >>>8811 >racism and homophobia Oh fuck off. This is some of the most obvious sectarian glowfaggotry I've seen in a while, legitimizing >Capitalism ironically has done more to help the black man than white marxists saying any discussion of their position is idpol is justhe more obvious eample.
Anchored because the question has been answered >>8800
>>8811 >(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) BASED jannies
fuck off tranny
(93.43 KB 768x1280 ClipboardImage.jpg)
Nazbolism will get a shit-ton of people killed, which means that it's ok in my book. Fuck off tranny.

Delete
Report

no cookies?
__divBanCaptcha_location__