/hobby/ - Hobby

Do you like my new figurine mommy bought me /hobby/?

>>15145
MRW (my reaction when) you have such a cool mom!
>>15152
That's not very Jedi Master of you anon.

>>15152
Star Wars is the biggest garbage media ever. I have more respect for MCUdrones than I do for Star Wara fags

>>15164
>Look mom
<I’m being c-o-n-t-r-a-r-i-a-n
You go buddy
Show those normies!

>>15165
Contrarian for not liking shit movie series not even its fans like beyond the memes?
Ok kid, sorry for making fun of your movies

Pop culture was doomed when the most popular sci-fi became soy wars and not Dune

>>15170
Star Wars isn’t sci-fi you autistic faggot
>>15169
>Hating people for liking things
Kill yourself

Star Wars at least the main films sucks shit and people only like it because of nostalgia, as a non-Star Wars fan being taken to the movies to see the latest Disney movie by my date was one of the cringiest fucking things I've ever experienced in my life

>>15183
Why are you participating in a thread for movies you dislike you utter fucking faggot?
Do you see me participating in your fucking degenerate anime threads?

>>15183
I really think it's one of those things Americans love but everyone else not so much, just like bacon and nutella

>>15189
This thread is a duplicate and most of the posts are just shitting on Star Wars anyway

>>15196
I said sorry if repost!posadasPosadas

>>15183
Star Wars was cool when I was young, but now it purely rides on its recognition value. The non-mainline stuff is cool though. Rebels was great.

>>15143
It’s funny, Star Wars only got made due to the fact that Lucas couldn’t get the rights to Flash Gordon.

Oh how things would have been different in a socialist America.

>>15223
Star Wars is better than Fag Gordo
Who the fuck even heard of whatever the fuck Gordon these days?
Some fuckin shite franchise where every villain is a white dude in yellow face?

>>15228
Flash Gordon (Along with Dune) was Lucas’ primary inspiration behind Star Wars. He only made Star Wars because he couldn’t get the rights for Flash Gordon.

>>15230
Yes but Lucas made something that was better than Gordon Langley anyway
Once again, is there anyone younger than 55 that’s even seen Space Man Jabberjock or whatever the fuck?
And the only thing Star Wars took from dUnE was muh d3sert planet

>>15231
The reason I brought it up was that in a socialist America without the ridiculous copyright system that we have now, George Lucas would have been able to make his own Flash Gordon Movie as he originally intended.

And Just because something is old and most zoomers haven't heard of it because of their myopic view of history doesn't mean it still had a impact on the creation of Star Wars.

>vid related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx15aXjcDZg

oh cool, this got a new thread?

May the 4th be with you, nerds.

for the celebration here is a star wars channel and podcast I generally like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFHsiRE9aCg

bad batch not bad. think the girl clone is force sensitive.

>>15410
I kind of love that as soon as the Republic becomes the Empire one of the first things it does is try to default on its contracts with Kamino

Also is it just me or does Omega look a little less like a Jango and a little more like a Sheev

>>15468
Don't think she'll be a Palpaclone. The Empire would probably have kept a closer eye on her. Also the Kaminoans seemed less concerned about her disappearance than I would expect if they had lost their most important asset. My best guess is that she was their own experimental pet project, perhaps an attempt to clone a force sensitive. Don't really like to make speculation guesses, but the two which crossed my mind were Ventress and Sifo-Dyas.

>>15471
At least one of the Kaminoans were helping the BB, I half-wonder if they are going to bring back the Clone Rebellion plotline from Legends.

Also I dunno if it literally is a Sheev clone lmao, that was more just my first impression from looking at her. The resemblance is fucking uncanny though you gotta admit.

Best clone.

>>15472
Don't think a proper clone rebelion is possible. It seems that in current cannon the chip not only makes you 100% loyal to execute certain commands, but also seems to make clones specifically loyal to the Empire, or at least Palpatine in general. So unless the Kaminoans specifically tamper with one of the newer batches and take away the chip, I don't think they really could ressist the Empire.

>>15473
Fordo was p based, he does actually have a minor cameo in current canon
>>15475
Well we've also seen from the first episode that you can intensify (and thus presumably turn off or reduce) the power of the chip, so its possible that Kamino ends up turning off all the chips locally if things go south with negotiations with the Empire (and seeing how they genocided Geonosis, its 100% going to go south).

>>15475
>>15476
also another point of the episode was that the Empire was going to introduce conscription, so they could send in the conscripts to fight the clones as well. It also might be where the sniper of the team loses his conditioning and defects from the Empire back to them and they have to leave their home and all of their clone brothers as their home gets torched by the empire

plus don't lie - a clone vs stormtrooper fight would get millions of views lmao

>>15476
That owns.

I just miss the EU, I know it's consumerist to feel emotion for a fictional ip but growing up with all the books and video games makes it hard. There will never be another Thrawn campaign that has impact on the universe or battle of Muunilinst. I just want der maus to give legends a little life support beyond SWTOR so that there could be new content. The whole it would confuse people argument just proves that mutts can't distinguish between something that does or doesn't have a huge LEGENDS sticker on the top. I know I shouldn't care that much but it just kinda sucks.

>>15480
I imagine we'll probably get more Legends stuff after the commercial viability of current canon dies down. Mind for the longest while there was a pretty direct course of how Legends was going post-Thrawn campaign all the way up until the Memezong Dong where everything was allowed to diversify off into their own little realm, the same will probably be true of current canon.

That besides all the new thrawn books were written basically disregarding the whole canon switch happened lmao. Like you can 100% insert most of the old canon fluff of Thrawn into the new books and it doesn't only work but it also fits perfectly.

>>15481
I keep hearing the new Zahn books are good so I'll check em out. It'd be interesting to see legends stuff come back.

>>15484
I can also recommend the Alphabet Squadron books if you like the idea of the old X-wing books as far as character development goes but with a bit of extra edge

>>15485
Is there any books like the Traviss Republic Commando books or medstar?

>>15491
nothing quite like that yet, though I imagine post Bad Batch (and thus post-Clone Wars tv show) we're going to see a lot of content around that era start to get published as a follow-up

>>15475
>tamper
The red kaminoan was the one overseeing Crosshair’s chip “enhancing” and also let Omega escape if I recall correctly. Maybe she has a plan for the Bad Batch too?

new episode was neat

nice seeing Cut again, shame they missed Rex just by a day. Echo probably hadn't seen him for a long while, though it's basically confirmed that they will run into Rex later now.

>>15516
Don't know how intentional it was, but I liked the little social commentary with Chain Codes. I mean, nowadays literally every functional country, fascist or otherwise, has an ID database of some sort. When you really consider it, yea, it is kind of spooky violation of privacy, although pretty much mandatory for a functional modern world. I am kind of surprised though that the Republic didn't have a Chain Code already. Also to be perfectly honest the Empire is kind of in the right on these administrative issues, SW universe is basically ancapistan in many regards, which really needs some sort of strong galactic governance.

>>15538
Well the Republic definitely had some kind of ID system because that was what they used to track down young force sensitive babies for the jedi kidnapping corps to snatch

The Empire has made that identity, though, more centralized by consolidating things like money, mobility, ect. into the one chip to make it a lot more impactful as to what they can do with it. They also forced everyone to transfer their savings from republic to imperial currency which probably fucked people over in the conversion rates and made a lot of people poor on purpose, because part of the imperial strategy is using mass poverty as a way to heavily expand the base of people that they can recruit from for the imperial military to replace the clone troopers.

Why don't they simply make more clone troopers?

>>15550
Because Tarkin is a penny pincher.

>>15550
A few reasons

On top of Order 66, all of the Clones have other orders including Orders 2, 3, 65, ect which cover removing the sitting Chancellor and his cabinet from office at the approval of certain governmental bodies, as well as a number of other orders which could have forced the Clones into compliance with different wings of the military, possibly against the Empire in the event of a military coup. On top of that, the Clone Troopers need to be housed, fed, and trained until adulthood, which granted is only around 12 years because of their accelerated aging but its still a lot of money. Conscripts are nice because their parents pay the brunt of the cost for raising them, the military just needs to give them like 4 months of basic and that's way cheaper than raising a clone army. In addition, these clones all will retire from service eventually, and finding something to do with them would not exactly be easy seeing as they age so quickly that they wouldn't be a strong store of institutional knowledge like regular veterans and they never had a taste of civilian life so integrating them with the population would be hard.

Also the types of enemies the Empire was going to fight wasn't going to be the endless waves of droids or the few disciplined organic seperatist forces like the Deathwatch, it was going to be ragtag teams of guerilla fighters in the Rebellion. Clones would just be hilarious and expensive overkill for an Empire already blowing its budget on endless amounts of expensively big overkill, corners had to be cut somewhere (TIEs, ground troopers, ect).

>>15563
>still a lot of money
And where did that money come the first time around? Are you saying the empire state, when it centralized power and control from the republican state, actually became poorer? They could build a death star or two but not fund more clones?

>>15565
>And where did that money come the first time around
The Banking Clan via the Sith, and continued funding was secured by the nationalization of the banks midway through the war. By the wars end, the Republics debt was 15 times that of its GDP.

The Republic military was basically all quality, even the worse ships like the Torrent fighter was made out of quality parts and just suffered from bad design. The Empire though would have to cut back and focus on expanding the military industrial complex for money and funding, and that came in the form if expensive star destroyers and other kinds of massive money sinks, as most all other industry was destroyed by the Clone Wars and galactic unemployment was massive. Thus, much of the Empire's economy hinged around an ever expanding military to promote an illusion of growth while the actual underlying industries and productive forces were pretty much crippled and didn't recover by the time the Empire ended. Clones by their nature were small and elite units which didn't expend a lot of their equipment because of their obsessive maintenance and rigid training, so they weren't a good fit for what the Empires economic plan was either.

Also don't forget Tarkin was the main military strategist for the Empire and he wanted his own doctrine implemented, the usage of Star Destroyers and Death Stars as instruments of fear, and the universality of Stormtroopers in and out of uniform as a show of the integration of the civilian and military into one. The clones can't exist as civilians like stormtroopers can, they fail that angle.

>>15565
Also a lot of the Death Star was built pre-empire as well, and with slave labor too. There was a lot of unethical cost cutting besides the Clones.

Interesting read. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobunited.wordpress.com/2017/12/15/the-dark-side-of-capital-economics-ideology-and-palpatines-empire/amp/

star wars is for faggots

>>15595
Then why don’t you like it?

>>15595
UHhhh based alert

>>15567
Which non-canon retcon does this come from? And what about the 2nd death star?

>>15582
pretty fun, any other stuff like this?

>>15601
for the 1st Death Star in Legends this was the place where it was constructed
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Despayre
in canon the 1st Death Star was constructed over Geonosis with a mix of Geonosian and Wookie slave labor
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/DS-1_Death_Star_Mobile_Battle_Station#Continued_construction

Death Star 2 was quite literally built in the exact same place as the first one in Legends, in Canon its never elaborated on where the Death Star is built before getting to Endor.

Watched the third episode of BB. They aren't playing around aren't they? Really didn't expect that they would actually ever dare to show a deathsquad executing civilians, especially not when lead by the anti-hero who is basically confirmed for a redemption arc. Anyway, I like how the current cannon is not pulling away from the fact that the Republic was dogshit, as we see from the stormtrooper dialogue.

>>15666
check'd
yeah the Bad Batch is going darker than I first imagined, I was kinda worried it would be a lighthearted kids show a la rebels, but the mass-execution of civilians kinda made that impossible lmao. along with that I kinda don't think that Crosshair will be able to effectively be "redeemed" because this is only the start of his actions, there are going to be more atrocities to come and he can't really make up for them.

I do also like the narrative focus on how quickly the Empire is just taking over the Republic, Palpetine had long seeded the traits of the Empire into the Republic so the transition is nearly seamless, with only small elements like Onderon or the Bad Batch slipping out of the Empire.

>>15605
I just look up Star Wars capitalism and interesting blog posts come up. Here’s one on princess Leia

https://mobunited.wordpress.com/2016/12/28/leia-organa-a-critical-obituary/

so wait… the Empire forcing everyone to trade in their republic credits and use chain-codes… this is literally fucking imperial bitcoin

>>15804
Chain-codes seen like just a fancy name to describe a civilian registry. Meanwhile the credits are still material items, which is kinda dumb tbh, Empire had the perfect chance to create a digital currency.

so, we all know the story about Star Wars Battlefront 3…
but did you know that during the active development of Battlefront 3 that they were already doing concept art for Battlefront 4?

It was going to be centered around exploring star wars alt-universes where different characters fell to the dark side or became jedi, and many of the designs are whack

>>16110
there is also barely clothed sith leia for all your incredibly incestuous darth luke needs

>>15563
Clone troopers are high cost maintenance and deployment. Conscripts are low cost and can be trained locally unless they are aiming for Navy. But the most important thing is that conscripts are cheaper in peace time than clones, as they said it in the episodes.

>>15566
Plus let’s not forget all the slavery on backwater planets or planets that resisted conquering and then were conquered. Despite the Empire centralizing a lot of shit they opened up slavery and when there was wages they were pittance. In one of the recent Amidala books these miners working on the moon of Naboo are working way long hours with almost no safety equipment.

So does anyone here play FFG star wars rpg?eurekaEureka

neat little detail of the bad batch episode today
we get a look at their HUD thanks to a first-person perspective scene
its actually a very faithful recreation of the Republic Commando HUD, save for the different overall shape because their helmet visor is different and more opacity on the outer HUD elements especially

>>16667
I noticed this too which was great. And I’m sure the visor would be larger if it was worn, it looks like the perspective is large if you put a camera inside the helmet inside of a head inside the helmet looking out.

bad batch episode recap

>>17016
One thing I don’t like is how every bounty hunter in Star Wars is somehow the best bounty hunter. Every new character they add is like this super special character with awesome abilities, which kind of makes the universe smaller and makes what are supposed to be characters who are above the norm to seemingly not as good as we thought them to be. Also the Fennec Shand thing is weird because she’s much younger and less experienced and it would’ve been nice to see her struggle more against a more renowned bounty hunter like Bane and that she built up her reputation over the years. It’s kind of inconsistent.

>>17017
to be fair Cad Bane does have a giant cybernetic skullplate on the left side of his head, implying Boba Fett already domed him in the duel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLwTkhVQj-g) and Cad Bane is probably on the decline as "the best". Fennec at this point is also at least somewhat notable (Hunter recognizes her when he first sees her) so she isn't green by any measure. I kinda imagine that this show is going to be where Cad Bane ends up dying.

New named clone in the bad batch. interestingly, he has the same colors as the officers of the 501sts Torrent Company - Torrent Company was like the infantry support company for the 501st's armored divisions, they took pretty heavy losses across a number of battles so by the time of the retaking of Ryloth, it might've made sense for the 501st to leave some of its officers as advisors on the ground for the garrison since they didn't have many men to command in the 501st until they got reinforced. He also flaunts the rules (not reporting a trespassing incident for the sake of one of his non-clone friends) which pretty well sounds like one of Captain Rex's men.

On top of this he got his own action figure so he is probably meant to be at least semi-important to the show. Dunno for sure if he is 501st but he does seem pretty interesting from what we saw of him, he literally witnessed a false-flag assassination to frame a political figure and was then ordered to kill said political figure's daughter, and he was already flaunting a lot of imperial regulations and orders. We might see him turn next episode.

>>17683
I hope we don't see the first batch of storm troopers until season 2 or maybe as late as season 3. And they should be emphasized as the first regimen of company of stormtrooper conscripts instead just a sudden deployment and replacement of all clones.

>>15595
Supressedchristian_communismChristian Communism

>>17690
the current state of the lore is that basically all of the clones almost uniformly disappear by a year after the clone wars, which is almost too convenient for just "phasing them out". I almost expect the continued use of the inhibitor chip kills most of the clone army, by some kind of brain hemorage or something.

Omega has the kid "can we go to mcdonalds" mentality except for every warzone in the galaxy

Clone rebellion + Planet insurrection let’s gooo

>>17971
It’s a kids show, what can you do? The excuse is that she’s “special” but everyone in Star Wars is “special”.

>>17975
kinda a shame that Hauzer just gave himself up like that, I kinda thought he would work from behind the scenes and sew dissent and give aid to Ryloth from behind the shadows, or at least go off with Rex for (unspecified rebellion adventures). Instead he just convinced himself and like 20 others to basically consciously object and get arrested by the rest of the clones. now he'll probably get executed or worse, get a crosshair treatment.
>>17979
Oh I didn't mean it as a bad thing, I just find it funny that an elite special forces unit is getting dragged into every battle in the galaxy by their adoptive clone sister.

Anyone willing to drop a red pill on the Naboo Crisis, the Clone War, the imperialist policy of the Galactic Republic, and the how/why regarding Emperor Sheev Palpatine’s rise to power and the political economy of his Galactic Empire?

>Naboo Crisis
The protocols of elders of the trade federation.pdf
>the Clone War
Capitalist republic commits galactic repression in its expansion leading to rebellion in the form of the confederacy. Confederacy was also supported by planets locked in a form of slave society due to mercantile / bougie influences in the republic seeking to outlaw slavery
>the imperialist policy of the Galactic Republic
Planets were either invaded or forced to join its political system.
>and the how/why regarding Emperor Sheev Palpatine’s rise to power and the political economy of his Galactic Empire?
Depending on whether you think the GE is more like Rome or Nazi germany it's economy would be logically different.
If its more like Rome its basically modern China were the state 'owns' all the land but 'rents' it out to people to do what they want with the stipulation that they will have said land revoked if they act against social-interests.
If Nazis then fascist capitalismeurekaEureka

>>18223
>Naboo Crisis
Naboo had a big reserve of plasma (basically oil since the Star Wars galaxy has incredibly efficient energy conversion and transportation rates, so they could monopolize it and send it anywhere) so the Trade Federation wanted to control their resources to expand their industrial trade empire, as like 1000 years prior to the movie the Galactic Republic instituted a law that corporations that developed exclusively in the Outer Rim (basically the Star Wars 3rd world) would be tax-exempt in an effort to try and build up economic power. By the time of Episode I, there is a lot of tension between the inner-core companies (which would go on to form the backbone for the Grand Army of the Republic's production) and these corporations which developed themselves in the Outer Rim (which would form the backbone of the Confederacy of Independent Systems). So the Naboo Crisis was what would become the CIS doing preemptive moves to try and seize resources to fuel their war machine when the time comes.
>the Clone War
See above, it was a large-scale war fueled mostly by the conflicting interests of two different flavors of corporate interests slugging it out for what interests would reign supreme. The aforementioned law that made outer rim companies tax-exempt was repealed, largely from the political sway of the core world companies and done against the whims of most of the outer rim worlds, who were drastically underrepresented in the Republic Senate (often hundreds of worlds would have to share a single seat in the senate whereas core world planets would have several seats on the Senate), so the political impetuous for the Confederacy of Independent Systems came about. Many Outer Rim worlds, backed by the Outer Rim companies, seceded from the Republic, claiming it was unjust and unrepresentative of the Outer Rim. This movement was lead by a charismatic old aristocrat named Count Dooku, who molded the Confederacy into having an organized representative council which was more equal than the Republic (basically 1 planet = one senate seat), and separated corporate power from the government through legislative reforms and subordinating their corporate armies under the Separatist War Council, to make sure that all of the different arms of these corporations were acting in the interests of the CIS. By the time General Grievous became prominent, the corporate armies were essentially nationalized and became fully planned under the state.
>the imperialist policy of the Galactic Republic
Basically imagine post-WW2 Europe, the New Sith Wars were so brutal that many planets were reduced to pre-spacelight technology and making new spaceships became almost impossible all across the galaxy. The holonet (star wars internet basically) collapsed, and with it basically all communication in the galaxy. all communication had to be done by courier ships, and there were increasingly few to do this with as all civilians ships were pressed into military service to win the war. The Republic effectively collapsed and was replaced by a Jedi military dictatorship, entire battles were waged with mixes of high-tech blasters and iron age weaponry because entire worlds were so industrially destroyed, and whole sectors and systems of the galaxy were lost to memory because there was no communication or reliable star charts to get to them. after this massive war, the core worlds were reduced to ruin, and they needed hyper-exploitation of the outer rim in order to rebuild themselves, hence why they passed the tax exemption law and all that to extract resources for profit. Of course they never expected for there to be full industrialization of the outer rim, which is why the clone wars happened.
>how/why regarding Emperor Sheev Palpatine’s rise to power and the political economy of his Galactic Empire?
He manipulated the war (including Count Dooku from the start) to consolidate the powers of the Chancellorship and used the intel agencies and spec-ops groups of the Republic to do false-flag attacks on his enemies, basically clearing the road to power for himself. the proclamation of the galactic empire was basically a formality, by the 3rd year of the Clone Wars it basically already was the Empire, just with Jedi serving it. Sheev put down the CIS and allowed for Core world industries to exploit them even more than the Republic did, so Sheev is basically a parallel to fascism, enforcing capitalism in a time of immense crisis through a collaboration of the state, bouj, and petite-bouj with copious amounts of corporate favoritism.

critical support for emperor Palpatine!

>>18227
He's just developing the productive forces!
You think the backwards feudal Jedi would ever create something as impressive as the Death Star?

>>18228
Yeah, the giant fireball that replaced it. Cope harder Imperialist.eurekaEureka

Stop watching Star Wars.lenin_capLenin Cap

>>18229
>Imperialist
No you fucking idiot.
Republic is imperialist. Empire is liberator and had spread civillization across the Galaxy
The "muh Palpatine is brutal dictator killed 500000000 qiarrillion" is Jedi propaganda

Shouldn't this be on >>>/hobby/ ?

>>18231
The killing of the Jedi was justified and they should have killed more

After watching clone wars i realized that the whole point of the war makes no sense ,the movies potrayed the cis as an oligarchy but in universe the corporations blame both sides while both sides call each other out on being controled by plutocrats
How does this work?

>>18234
>>18229
>>18228
>>18227
Palpatine was based. Fucking eat bantha poodo you feudal jedioids and republictards. Palpatine dindu nuffin wrong.

>>18236
>Fucking eat bantha poodo you feudal jedioids and republictards. Palpatine dindu nuffin wrong.
Kys glowie
You can make fun of us but truth is truth
Palpatine was our Revolutionary leader, he exactly did nothing wrong. He crushed down the corrupt-oligarchic republic and destroyed the bourgeoisie planets
Stop listening to propaganda like "" NOOO Evil Vader killed my rich fathers Planet !!!!1!". They julags deserved it

>>18235
Jedi (liberal) propaganda deliberately portrays politics as confusing and a battle between good and evil

>Backwards order of conservative feudal monks
>Believes in some spooky nonsense religion where everyone who opposes them is on the "dark side"
>Defend a corrupt and decrepit bourgeois republic for 1000 years
>Literally abduct children and indoctrinate them into becoming warriors
>Protects a reactionary queen from being re-educated by accelerationist ancap robots
>Sends lumpen cannon fodder clones to their deaths in a galactic war so the spoiled labor-aristocratic citizenry doesn't have to fight

Can't believe anyone defends these guys. Younglings deserved it

If a Jedi ordered the Clone Army, how were the Kaminoans getting paid? I mean obviously they were in cahoots first with the Republic and then Empire. Follow the money and you'll see that the Banking Clan are the ones truly behind this!

>>18238
How are the Jedi liberals? They hold no economic power, and they probably are paid by tax dollars to run their facilities. Even their religious and philosophical influence is not that strong because there is clearly many more religions and groups around the philosophy of The Force.

>>18237
This. In fact it was during the Empire that citizens experienced unprecedented wealth. Did Palpatine hold some bias because of his religion? Yes but people already were Xenophobic, it was a different time. If it wasn't for the Rebellion and if the imperial Senate was patient I'm sure other species would have benefited, not only that but wages were on the rise before the Rebellion struck!

Was he a Blanquist?

>>18243
no Dooku was the Blanquist
Pellaeon was far more an equal-minded military dictatorship, not really ideologically aligned to anything more than its own self-preservation and modernization, since the Empire was clinging on to effectively 20 year old technology at that point mostly for aesthetics even as they were getting romped

>>18226
man, this shit is basically a foreshadowing of what’s gonna happen when porkies terraform Mars and develop the “productive forces”

>>18226
>Basically imagine post-WW2 Europe, the New Sith Wars were so brutal that many planets were reduced to pre-spacelight technology and making new spaceships became almost impossible all across the galaxy. The holonet (star wars internet basically) collapsed, and with it basically all communication in the galaxy. all communication had to be done by courier ships, and there were increasingly few to do this with as all civilians ships were pressed into military service to win the war. The Republic effectively collapsed and was replaced by a Jedi military dictatorship, entire battles were waged with mixes of high-tech blasters and iron age weaponry because entire worlds were so industrially destroyed, and whole sectors and systems of the galaxy were lost to memory because there was no communication or reliable star charts to get to them. after this massive war, the core worlds were reduced to ruin, and they needed hyper-exploitation of the outer rim in order to rebuild themselves, hence why they passed the tax exemption law and all that to extract resources for profit. Of course they never expected for there to be full industrialization of the outer rim, which is why the clone wars happened.



Wait what that's fucking metal as fuck do people really hate the new disney lore? I was a huge SW fan as a kid and read tons of books and never remember anything that hardcore happening so that's a post-disney thing right?

Reminder that the Republic is human supremacist while Confederacy was diverse. Agent Dooku was sent by Republicans to undermine the anti-imperialist struggle in Confederate planets.

why didn't you just post this in the Star Wars thread, conveniently named the Star Wars thread? In there you may have found ansers to ALL of your questions, just saying.
>>6962
>>6963
>>7677

>>18230
Stop being assmad

>>18257
Ah I realize this was transferred from /leftypol/ in which case, I doubly recommend use of the existing Star Wars thread.

>>18251
this is old legends lore, but disney has lowkey implied this is still the current lore as well, just not outright codified it. they've namedropped a lot of characters very pivotal to the series (Revan, Nilus, Satielle Shawn, Darth Bane, ect ect) so its likely they will do a remake sort of deal with the New Sith Wars. Which would be nice, the most representation they ever got in Legends was a few comic books and 2 or 3 novels.

>>18251
Nah, thats Old Republic lore from KotoR's. The post-original-trilogy aesthetic of disney is far more akin to TNO Warlord Russia for the lack of a better analogy. Shits fucked, Republic is barely stable, remnants and banditry everywhere, economic chaos.

scorch from republic commando showed up in the latest episode

also this was a pretty good gag

they really channeling that slave hunter energy for the Empire

I like that we’re seeing a transition not only in armor but I’m the training of stormtroopers. I also like the reasoning: they are cheaper easier to train and there’s a lot more of them.

anyone see the star wars visions trailer?
https://fxtwitter.com/RottenTomatoes/status/1427626652545077248
some of it isn't really my style but others look pretty neat.

>>18648
yeah, the phasing out of clone troopers was honestly hitting on some nostalgic sadness, like an era really coming to an end. with the end of the two-part finale especially, it feels like the entire era of the clone wars has definitely ended.

Crosshair still a fash

>>19117
Crosshair literally doing Coca-Cola moments because Empire makes him feel valid. Truly the modern day burger liberal fash.

>>19117
>>19122
that he is basically a grillpilled operator is funny
"look guys I just wanna keep doing warcrimes, whats the difference between droids and squishies really?"
its literally just the NPC argument lmao

just finished Vol. 1 of the Aftermath trilogy and it's acctually pretty good

inb4 travistite. I prefer the lore pre clone brain chip that order 66 was the come uppance of the jedi for sacrificing their morals for accepting a slave army and the evils of the kaminoans who twist humanity into a pliable to authority amoral servant in a way like the actual machines they were fighting though reflections of jangos past humanity are present. Though the clones were sad they had to kill their former comrades and leaders they justified it by a good soldier follows orders and the mental conditioning and genetic manipulation they were put through demands that they go through with it. Most stay with the empire and obey their orders and the jedi order is effectively removed as a serious power with Vader and elite 501st troops and inquisitors or maybe normal powered star killer purge the remaining jedi until maybe a handful are left when Luke destroys the DS. Clones remain effective in their physical deterioration with increasing use of cybernetics. They fit marvelously with Vader's aethetic and truly are his fist. any rebel force would get decimated going against them. They join the Remnant are now almost complete machines dark trooper pre phase I maybe. They laugh heartily and the galaxy shakes. they are the 5 0 1ST.

>>19228
*I hate the filoni it aint sheev shit with the clones being tossed aside after the war and imperials mistreating these beacons of imperialists propaganda who defeated the dreaded neo lib ancap terrorist separatist scum. GrandFather Palpatine would never allow his coup degrace against the jedi terrorist shadow cabal nutjobs squalor away. He would send out Jango's face the Mando terror so the enemies of the sith would be reminded of their complete failure every time they hear the gruff concord down voice as the knife twist of the jedi sacrificing the noble values of the republic and the order itself against their seppy bourgeois enemies

>>19229
*filoni can't stand his action figures being portrayed as the "bad" guys even though they shouldn't be judged by human morality because of kaminoan genetic manipulation so he has to find away to take them away from based sheev. The clones should proudly serve the empire they helped build. The Remnant continues to honor these brave heroes hundreds of years later.

>>19230
*even story armor alderaanian reactionary bourgeois jezebelles still have nightmares of that cold concordian dawn voice. waking up in piss next to some corellian failson who watches his man sized dog "best" friend fuck that heiress gusanita generallisma. Luke a hardenned boy hero whose relatives were unlucky unforchsm being corrupted by shadow government COUNCIL propaganda respects clone stormys.

>>19231
Filoni has sanitized the clones revolutionary message of unshackling themselves from the failures of the decadent old republic and separatist alliance and embarking on a bold new path promising peace and prosperity to the galaxy. Filoni has changed them into rebel toadies and neolib fools.

>>18223
>>18224
>>18225
>>18226
>>18227
>>18228
>>18230
>>18236
>>18235
>>18238
>>18239
>>18240
>>18241
>>19228
>>18267
>>18257
NO YOU DUMB FOOLS. Where was Palpatine from? NABOO. Naboo is the center of all political conflict which engulfed the Republic which wasn't a true Republic. The Credit system established post Mandalore Wars was corrupted and bankrupted by whom? BY THE NABOO. The Catamite Palpatine after following thru on the reichstag fire event that was the Great Purge and established a satanic masochistic central banking system. NABOO IS THE ENEMY. The confederacy, republic and mandalorians are all prostitutes of the BRITISH, I MEAN the NABOO.

>>19232
Filoni has gained my trust through his other work for me to let him work out his vision. But if it turns out to suck my head canon will just have it end with season 7 finale because that shit was perfect.

>>19234
FIlONI IS A BRITISH AGENT

>>19233
DO NOT listen to this infiltrator who is making a FALSE prophet event and is trying to break the party line of the Galactic Caucus of Labor. The LaRouche movement fully supports Emperor Palpatine in his goals to rebuild the Galaxy and its brave, vast infrastructure projects, exemplified by the so called "death" star as the Eopie loving Couruscant yuppies called this marvel of Galactic engineering. Sadly it was destroyed by the Russanist Rebel Aliance, which is, of course, run directly out ISB Central Office by that blasted droid-sexual Tarkin and Ardus Kaine and his big spice cartel, all, obviously, controled from Serreno by House Dooku.

>>19238
PALPATINE IS A CATEMITE. Its confirmed by authoritative sources in the Intergalactic Caucus of Labor. The Galactic Caucus is a Naboo Royal PLOT by the House of Theed, Nabierre and PALPATINE. PALPATINE is a NABOO AGENT. Palpatine is not a sith but a faggot. Many onCoruscant whisper about Palpatine and Flagrente at the Starcruiser hotel. According to leading psychoanalysts Palpatine is what is described as that of a lizard catamite variety. WE DON'T NEED A DEATH STAR. We need economic development of the OUTER RIM. Get the Hutt cartel out and it will begin to happen immediately!

>>19239
Yes support Thrawn's Defender project. Remove guasano poo in loos.

I HATE SHEEVIST REVISIONISTS. I HATE SHEEVIST REVISIONISTS

>>19259
WeTenebrous we know.

>>19276
ANOTHER CATAMITE. Join the GCLC and LarouchePac!

>>18225
based

>>19204
yeah aftermath wasn't too bad as its own series, i think most people just dislike it as a replacement for the old EU's imperial collapse where there was rampant warlordism for years. between that and Alphabet Squadron the sequel era has a good deal of surprisingly good literature surrounding it, considering the fairly middling response to the trilogy itself.

>>16116
Filoni just doesn't want his dindu nuthing action figures to not help Based Palpatine anymore.

>>19445
*to help based Palpatine

>>15152
>obscure commie shit nobody ever heard of
Yes.

I hate SW and stopped after Force Awakens, but Andor brought me back. No Jedi/Sith junk just normal people trying to survive along with attempted humanization of Imperials so the Empire is not as much of a cartoon villain anymore. Highly character driven since there isn't any action until the final episode of each story arc (each arc is roughly 3 episodes) and even then action sequences are very brief. Music also slaps and it's a pretty slow burn so ADHD zoomers probably can't handle it. Also no one has plot armor besides the main character so anyone can die or get screwed over at any moment which is a major step up. This is the direction I was hoping the newer trilogy would go in but Disney completely failed and it's no wonder that Andor managed to do it right, because the writer for Andor admitted that he hates Star Wars too and wanted to write an actual story and not just a big budget vehicle with which to shill merchandise and toys. Andor is like one of those EU novels pre-Disney takeover that got brought to life.

First

last

>>31563
>>31564
in-between

>>31553
Rougue One was already the best out of the bunch of NuSWs so picking off from there was a good choice. I just love how so many fans get mad at Andor because it isn't self-referential and driven by showing off prop, fandoms were a mistake.

But even then I don't even see it. While it's story driven it still does enough fan service to remind you it's still Star Wars, you have Tie Fighters, Coruscant, Mon Mothma, a cute droid, and all that.

Also retarded zoomers can't recognize the political implications and /pol/yps get mad because it's anti-fascist.

>>31599
Another thing I liked were the constant Chekhov's guns that got fired off. Every time something gets brought up or shown earlier it's almost inevitable that it will be brought up again and advanced or resolved. It made every episode feel important because you never know when something might come up again.
>Someone tells Andor that Maarva was trying to dig up a secret tunnel entrance under the hotel
<Later that exact tunnel gets used by Cass to break in
>Vel realizes Andor is committed to the cause after the heist
<Decides to slow roll her assassination assignment and not do anything to catch him because she doesn't actually want to kill him
>Mon knows her driver is an ISB spy
<Later throws her husband under the bus by accusing him of gambling behind her back in front of the driver, in order so that the driver will report to the ISB and make her missing funds look less suspicious
>Andor takes Nemik's manifesto
<We don't find out what Nemik wrote until the end and it fits perfectly with the scene
>ISB talks about new laws coming in to increase security powers, and to revise prison sentences and increase penalties for previous crimes
<Andor flees to a vacation resort type world and notices a massively increased security presence from droids flying around and guards everywhere
<When he gets caught he has his 6 month sentence readjusted to 6 years
>During the heist planning stage it's mentioned that Cinta had her whole family wiped out by the Empire and Skeen talks about how she's the most ruthless of the entire squad
<Cinta is put in charge of the hostages during the actual heist and we never see them alive again after she walks away from the garrison

>>31601
You forgot about how prison labor was used to build death star.

>>31604
I mean yeah that's the biggest one although I didn't like that and was hoping they were building something else smaller-scale like a star destroyer or even parts for the K2S0 droids.
The attention to detail though is insane especially for a fucking Star Wars show.
>Brasso tells Andor that Maarva can afford to put the heating on
<At the end of the first arc you can see Maarva's breath visibly forming since she still hasn't bothered to put the heating on
>Someone mentions that Maarva has stopped taking her medication
<She eventually dies
>Keyla tells Luthen that he's slipping and making mistakes
<Luthen parks his ship in the exact same spot he arrived at when he first came to Ferrix to meet Andor, so Andor easily re-locates his ship again in the finale
>Cinta or someone else remarks on how Vel is a rich girl LARPing as a revolutionary who can go back to her mansion after
<Later it's revealed that Vel is actually Mon's sister
>Mon's marriage is a sham marriage and empty of all affection
<However Mon mentions that her husband is very open minded and at the end they unite in disgust over their daughter's desire to LARP as a trad wife

I liked the parts where star wars kills a bunch of cops and the community has a cop warning system

But yeah Andor was really amazing overall, it actually got me on a star wars kick for the first time in years. Been watching through the Clone Wars show since I never actually watched much past like season 3. Pretty good stuff. Guess I'm just a soy consoomer now.

>>31620
lol me and my BF said the same joke. but yeah Andor was alright compared to the other dreck

>>31620
I feel like Andy Serkis worked his entire life for finally getting a role without CGI in a good show. The dude acted the living shit out of himself. I was genuinely impressed. I hope Kino is not dead.

>>31617
I liked how they made them fat as well. They looked like Soviet propaganda posters depicting American cops. That fat Scottish sergeant is hilarious for some reason though, hope he survived that explosion.

I'm glad Andor only goes for 2 seasons and season 2 was already planned through from the beginning. Shows go to shit after 3 seasons, especially a big franchise show like in the Star Wars universe because at some point it will turn to pure pandering.

>>31628
That's hardly a universal rule, but yes, generally shows that are planned out completely from the start are better.

>>31627
>I liked how they made them fat as well.

And how the sergeant clocked immediately what had happened and came to reasonable conclusion to sweep it under the rug only for Javert to fuck everything up by playing hero cop

Watching the final season of clone wars…why did they feel the need to introduce two annoying Puerto Rican lesbians into the star wars universe

>>31628
i think season 2 ends right before rogue one.

>>31553
>Previous general:
>>>2737
previous OP here, thanks for the 2.0, archived https://archive.ph/Ujzm0

>>31627
>I feel like Andy Serkis worked his entire life for finally getting a role without CGI in a good show
He was in other stuff like The Prestige or Einstein and Eddington, but he does the CGI characters because he likes it.

>>31740
I think a lot of shows can be improved with more lesbians.

>>31620
>>31741
ah shit. Want more

>>31768
Depends on circumstance and portrayal.

>>31740
Puerto Rico exists in starwars?

Lucas predicted vaping

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about Bad Batch season 2 so far. I kind of wish they didn't bring in Cody at all rather than have him go rogue after one mission with Crosshair.

are there more of these kinds of images? I kinda like 'em.

>>32091
Kek at the first one

>>32091
good news, I found some more

>Bad Batch Ep 3 has the Separatists casted as the good guys fighting against Empire-supporting clones and nearly winning
>The droids are all expressing joy and fear during combat and shouting things like "protect the civilians" or "keep the governor safe" while the clones go wild and cause all kinds of collateral damage
<The episode ends with Commander Cody so PTSD and guilt ridden that he goes AWOL

I really like how they are doing the Empire with recent shows like Andor and Bad Batch, and even the Dooku segments from Tales of the Jedi really show how all the corruption and imperialism endemic in the Empire were all inherent in the Republic. But it only makes the end of the OT / the sequel series look even more dumb for all the liberal idealists like Mon Mothma thinking that they could just magic away the corruption inherent to the heavily human and Core planets centric Republic by being good or virtuous or whatever, I can't decide if its funny or sad that they all probably died to 1st Order deathsquads.

>>32101
do you ever think about how a lot of the companies that supported the Separatist war effort were also part of the rot of the late Republic in the first place, only to be handed over to the loyalist contractors like Kuat Drive Yards

>>32104
Well note I made the point of saying "Separatists" rather than "the CIS". The underlying movement upon which the CIS built itself upon was ultimately correct, and Dooku (whether by altruistic intent or intentional manipulation of politics) fed them completely correct information about the corruption in the Republic, up to and including Sith infiltration in the government. The worlds that wanted to leave the Republic were, as you could see with Clone Wars episodes of the Separatist Senate, largely non-human and were likely often excluded from the halls of power in the Republic Senate, since representation on the Senate was not something you automatically got from being in the Republic, the rest of the Senate had to vote you in. Hell, even from the perspective of your rank-and-file seperatist, a corporate alliance against the Republic would make sense as a move for a pan-nationalist coalition meant to make secession easier, since it was the Republic which kept the power of corporations enshrined with many of them having their own seats in the Republic's Senate, which was hilariously not the case with the Separatist senate.

Ultimately, devoid of Palpatine shenanigans, the Separatist cause is correct imho.

>>32105
>The Republic is corrupt and letting the elites stomp all over the little guy
<Which is why we should support the based corporate mega conglomerates like the Trade Federation and InterGalactic Banking Clan
Palpatine literally admits he started the entire war with two false controlled-opposition factions and yet y'all are still desperately trying to engage in lore revisionism to justify "your" side all these years later. They both suck.

>>32106
Oh yeah, and to add onto this, the Republic was basically the United Nations in space. It didn't even have a standing army until Palpatine got his emergency powers and activated the clones! The reason Naboo suffered under the Trade Federation was because planetary sovereignty was respected (by the Republic, as in, they were not going to invade you to force you to change your government) and no one in the Republic cared about what was going on outside their planet. It was unironically a multipolar galaxy turned into a uniplolar galaxy under Palpatine because he couldn't stand the thought of planets just doing whatever they wanted with no fascist/sith supervision. Remind you of anyone? *cough* America *cough*

>>32106
Mega-conglomerates were literally on both sides of the war (and in the case of the Banking Clan, catering to both sides of the war via profiteering), with aristocratic/monopolistic corporations like Kuat Drive Yards or Intercom having massive stakes in the Republic and becoming the Empire's own MIC in the afteryears of the Clone Wars. As far as an inter-capitalist conflict goes, there are basically 3 factions to the conflict: long-established and predominately corporations like KYD which wanted to secure their long-existing power as a privileged Core worlds company against emerging power in the Outer Rim, relatively new Outer Rim companies like the Techno-Union or Trade Federation which were largely non-human and fighting to establish themselves against heavily privileged and preferred core worlds companies, and longstanding institutional companies like the Banking Clan and select military manufacturers which could afford to profiteer off the conflict and sell to both sides.
>>32107
Its equally as easy to make a reading along the lines of "Palpatine provoked the Seperatist cause and corralled them into following figurehead leaders so he could both exploit the crisis to expand his power and simultaneously purge leadership and movements which would stand against the expansion of that power through the war." After all, Palpatine sated the Core Worlds through superimperial profits off of exploitation of the Outer Rim and humano-centrism creating social divisions to preform idpol politics along to justify that exploitation. These are policies which were longstated and existing in the Republic, but put into overdrive with the Empire because they were convinced they had won the war and purged all resistance. In effect it was the centralization of the galaxy's wealth in the core worlds and reducing the peripheries into resource extraction hubs to fuel Core industry, which was the entire impetus for the CIS to launch the Clone Wars. The Separatists were unironically correct about the course of the Republic and actively tried to resist it, while nobody within the framework of the Republic was even marginally effective in delaying the culmination of power in Palpatine through their supposed democratic means.

>>32109
>long-established and predominately corporations
*predominately core world corporations

>>32109
It’s actually pretty funny how complex and innately tied to pretty logical set of political, social, historical, and economic circumstances in the three Star Wars trilogies, for a story that’s pretty simple on its face the actual wars are explicable the way real world wars are explicable

>>31601
forgot about clem

Watched 3 episodes of Andor. Fuck it was bad. Bad pacing, plotting, character development, really everything. Splicing one stupid flash back sequence (where nothing happens) between 3 whole episodes(I assume it's only the 3 and they're finally done with it)

>>32111
Imho its because Lucas made the Republic/Empire out of a heavily mythologized version of the US, its also why you saw the sequel trilogy tying itself into "resistance" stuff as much as it did; trying to draw political relevance from ongoing happenings with Trump but without really having any coherent political messaging unlike Lucas' stuff, save maybe for episode 8.

>>32113
fil t. ered
but yes the flashbacks sucked and it's only part of the first arc/first 3 episodes

>>32117
Which is sort of the problem actual irl "resistance" stuff had

>>32113
Please make it to the prison arc

>>32117
I think how much they’re meant to be the US is somewhat overstated, the Republic has elements of the Roman Republic, the European Union, and the UN as well. The Galactic Empire has as many if not much more in common with the Third Reich, the British Empire, and the Roman Empire than the US in all honesty. The Rebel Alliance, I’d say, actually is more or less a space version of 20th Century communist insurgents/anti-fascist resistance though.

Is bad batch worth watching? I didn't care for them in their clone wars backdoor pilot arc, they felt oddly generic for star wars.

>>32162
It has its high moments but its also got its lows, a bit like mid-season clone wars. I'm watching it on release mostly cause I like the idea of the era (transition from Republic to Empire) but if you don't specifically dig that idea I'd recommend just waiting until it all releases and following a watchlist so you can skip the middling episodes.

>>32162
>>32163
Oh, as for their genericness, they are slowly branching out from it into being individuals instead of war movie stereotypes. I think it was lowkey intentional in their story arc? But its also kinda retreading concepts from the Clone Wars, so who knows.

>>32164
Ah interesting. Yeah the tropey-ness of them kind of annoyed me. Like you got the nerdy tech guy, the big meat head with his dumb catchphrases, etc.

The Era is actually the reason I'd want to watch it. That whole transition period is sort of something new. Interesting how much recent star wars is focused on a corrupt but nominally democratic society slides into naked autocracy, can't imagine why.

>>32165
Yeah them becoming actual people is still kind of a slow burn, I think it'll be done by this season though.

If you want a single episode to make-or-break if you want to watch this whole thing now, I'd recommend Season 2 Episode 3. It's pretty standalone and pretty evocative of the overall tone from the storytelling, while being the best of this season yet. Really the first 3 episodes were all pretty solid, since they heavily dealt with the end of the CIS and Republic now moving into the new Imperial order.

>>32166
Noted. One thing I loved about going through TCW recently was the gradual buildup to the fall of the Republic. Even before Order 66 it already starts to feel like the Empire. So I'm intrigues by how this show depicts the culmination of all that.

>>32167
The Bad Batch were so hilariously insular that they didn't even realize what was happening, not even as order 66 dropped. From there they are trying to make sense of it all for most of season 1.

>>32168
Lmao that sounds fun. I'm watching S2E3 right now and enjoying it, probably gonna give it all a watch soon.

Gotta say it's impressive how much the animation has improved since early Clone Wars. This and Tales of the Jedi look phenomenal

>>32107
>multipolarity
Republic planets aren't like nations, you have to understand sci-fi writers have little sense of scale. Planets are more like cities or small regions. In that context, it makes far more sense for the Republic to be basically a Gilded Age era America with no standing army except for basic enforcement, and local oligarchs (think the bad guy from Open Range or the governor from Red Dead Revolver) rule.

In this case, the Republic is basically the US and Naboo is some small midwestern town that gets blockaded by Amazon PMC forces because the federal government (which has no military and allows Amazon a seat in the house of representatives) passed some minor taxation or regulation. The local mayor or whatever goes to Washington and petitions the senate, but they're so corrupt that only the FBI/CIA (which the Jedi are as the only enforcement arm of the republic government) bothers to send anyone to help them, and they end up having to gamble on a NASCAR race in Arizona run by a local drug cartel, and marshal enough forces to take their town back from the baddies Blazing Saddles style.

In that case, it's less of the Republic being the western-dominated UN and the Seps being the multipolar east - it's more that the core worlds which form the republic's heart are the old money New England WASPs and financial capitalists, while the seps are the western states capitalists, land barons, etc. as well as Silicon Valley tech entrepreneurs. The Republic are Ivy League old money oligarchs and the outer rim corporations are the oil barons and railroad barons.

I do like that Palps 5D chessed everyone in the last 2 episodes of the Bad Batch, but I think it was a bit of a reach to imply that it was his plan all along for Rampart to fuck up and to throw him under the bus for razing Kamino. He just has contingency plans for everything and knew that Rampart was a complete liability who was easily compartmentalized and discarded, ironically alongside the clone troopers he was so eager to get rid of.

Also, with how the storyline has gone with Chu Chi being a vocal representative of the clones and getting tied in with Bail Organa and Mon Mothma, and how the creation of stormtroopers is being pushed forwards, there is no way there isn't some kind of clone rebellion arc.

>>32239
Best post in here.

>>32162
Watching it after Andor makes Bad Batch look absolutely mid in comparison and relatively boring. The most fun ive had lately watching the latest Star Wars Filoni animations is the 3 episode arc with Dooku in Tales of the Jedi. Season 2 of Bad Batch has been kind of boring for me.

>>32381
You'd probably like these last 2 episodes, there is a solid amount of imperial politics and we get to see our first imperial thrown right under the bus. Though season 2 really makes the Bad Batch seem like they are really not the main story, I kinda wonder if they were originally going to have their own arc in like, a hypothetical clone wars season 8 alongside some other post-clone wars material, but Disney wanted to rebrand into something easier to market than just "The 8th season of the clone wars".

>>32382
What I'm wondering is how the hell are they fitting all these stories and how they're gonna justify pushing these characters into the main trilogy era. Don't get me wrong I like seeing the in-between but with characters like Cal Kestis and the Bad Batch and Omega it's getting kind of ridiculous that it's possible they lived through the main trilogy especially considering their importance. What I would love to see is basically a purging and something like a rebellion of the awol clones that fails which would make sense in the timeline sense. Of course people like Cal Kestis would not make any sense going through the OT because of how "involved" he is. I can accept surviving Jedi who've abandoned the fight but surviving Jedi who are active participants in the rebellion? I don't think so.

star wars comic marvel

worth? i want gorgeous artwork and fun stories

>>32383
The answer generally seems to be "and then they all went to the unknown regions."

I can see the Bad Batch becoming some background Spec-Ops group that might end up helping Jedi (a la The Path from the Kenobi show) or something like that. They are afflicted with the accelerated aging too (except Omega), so they could've just naturally died by the point of the OT. Of course its possible that they just fucking die in the show, but I don't think that'll be the case. I think that Omega is slated to be some kind of minor leader in the Rebellion, seeing that she's gotten connections with Hera who we know goes on to captain a capital ship under the Rebellion / New Republic.

Cal, I think, is going to end up getting wrapped up in that lost civilization which was a focal point of the 1st game, considering its been referenced in other media at this point it seems like its going to be a mildly important plot point. It'd also be conveniently out-of-the-way, out in the unknown regions trying to find this lost civilization while also denying all of their powerful technology from the Empire.
>>32398
Dunno if you mean past or present ones, but either way its a pretty mixed bag for both. Recent ones especially get into hot water a lot for art plagiarism, but the overall quality has improved a lot compared to the old Star Wars marvel comics, which could be like a shitty saturday morning cartoon at times. There are a lot of old classics like Crimson Empire or the ARC trooper comics, which everyone should see just because they are cool.

Got the AI to analyze Star Wars from a Marxist perspective, very fascinating results

>>32442
That armor is snazzy as fuck.

>>32161
It's very clearly referring to the US/British Empire (both being one of the same if you follow history), which is today the global empire. The values of the Republic or the Empire don't line up to anything but the Anglo-American understanding of politics, and don't regard what the Germans or Romans actually thought about politics beyond crude comparisons that could apply to any empire. The Empire and elite of the Republic are the liberal elites, the Rebels are a stand-in for "patriotic, freedom-loving Americans" who were getting their shit kicked in as Lucas is writing Star Wars. The bait and switch is that you're supposed to think the Rebels are the Americans fighting for freedom, but America is really the Empire all along, in cahoots with the very British officers on the Death Star.

Had the prequels been written better and had it not been for Bush, the turn of Anakin could have made more sense, but it is unlikely that kind of story could be told in American cinema today because it hits too close, and Lucas is writing the movies for kids. That's what Star Wars was written for - a fantasy story for kids to talk about and get into, so that action figures can be sold. The adults watching the prequels didn't seem to get that they were watching movies made for kids, but the movies had to delve into something that was not really a story kids could understand. Also Lucas writes shitty dialogue but he has the ability to work past that to convey his message. Lucas himself is not to subtle about the meaning of the Republic/Empire and what it is referent to. He comes from a time and place where you could more freely criticize what the US actually was, because this was not forbidden knowledge when he was growing up.

Star Wars doesn't really relate to communism or any story outside of America's internal sense of itself. Tatooine is some bumfuckistan that is part of the Republic/Empire, since this is a globalized galaxy. In some sense hints of communism are visible but that's because communism as an idea is really pointing to a concept of democracy. Strangely, the generation that grew up to watch Star Wars, born in the 50s and 60s, were the closest to an American concept of socialism, where they would be taught the institutions work and are good and should be better in the future. There are obviously problems with the institutions but there was this naive belief that institutions were good because the system can't be wrong, and that the institutions ostensibly worked for the people. Any knowledge of what a republic actually is would tell you republics are rife with infighting and backstabbing from the outset, and for most of the world, they're not convinced republican virtue is a thing at all. People outside of the American Empire can have difficulty getting what Star Wars refers to because they don't have this concept, or they have a totally artificial concept. They also tend not to really get what America actually is.

lol the last episode of the bad batch had a worker's revolution leading to a co-op with profit sharing between all of the workers

i read the poe dameron comic
i wish there was a comic series of just the robots

no talking, just cute robots

The story of anakin is a tale of tragedy
I really wish there was some comic, where he broke past the restrictions of both the jedi and the sith

An non cannon story
Does anyone know such story

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTQ4PN48H5E

>>32629
Ha. Just watched that episode. Love how all the interesting part happened in the last 2 minutes. Is it just me or did bad batch get extremely dumbed down in season 2? Like, there was the one episode about clone retirement that had some interesting depth, but I feel like after the set up post 66, and the fact that it’s in between movies, doesn’t let it do much? But even that’s not true because Andor was fucking awesome? I know it’s all media for children, but c’mon. They’ve kicked out half the cast and now they just go on adventures with no real connective tissue or stakes.

>>32702
so a fan-fic were he becomes a grey jedi?
there is the redeemed "White Vader"

>>32703
Well, it seems like the episodes focusing on the Bad Batch is all about emotional/character moments, while the sort of side-tangents are all about plot advancement and the conspiracies going on in the Empire. I don't think it is coincidental that Echo went to work with Rex and we've not seen Crosshair for a while, I think those two plot points are going to intersect somehow.

The ultimate end-point, I think, is going to be Crosshair somehow defecting from the Empire. Probably not to join the Bad Batch - but probably instead to become an Imperial Vigilante type, trying to "fix" the Empire from the outside by assassinating corrupt officials and whatnot.

>>32702
There was an old fanfic where Anakin found out about Darth Revan and took up his mask and persona and using it to try and force galactic politics to his whims, couldn't find it again for the life of me though.

>>32705
what is that
link plox

>>32708
who is darth revan

>>32709
KOTOR-era character, interesting because he decided to strategically "fall" to the dark side to try and use its power for good, against the longstanding logic of the Jedi order. He used that power to stop the Mandalorian Wars (where the Republic almost got destroyed) and later to try and take over the Republic to defend them against the incoming Sith Empire.

>>32711
I like his thinking, that's what I'd do

Orange Butt

The Mandalorian's new episode was cool visually, but mostly plot-establishing otherwise. It'd be neat to see more of this style of Mandalorian culture though, all arrayed with the banners of their clans fluttering in the wind

>>32733
Also can I just say like, poor fucking Bo Katan. She made one mistake which got her little sister killed and that is seemingly going to dominate the rest of her life until she croaks. Literally the second she couldn't live up to being Mandalore for like, the 3rd time in her life, every soldier under her deserted and went off to become mercenaries. She is part of the original group which basically sealed the fate of Mandalore fighting the Empire and losing that fight, and she'll probably never get real redemption from it. And she probably won't even have the dubious honor of being seen as a massive failure or villain in Mandalorian lore, she will probably be forgotten altogether.

>>32731
Imagine the alien smell

>>32731
>a whole galaxy far far away of possibilities and she just has a pussy

the conundrum of alien fucking

>>32702
I never understood this, Anakin was an asshole who murdered kids, the Jedi didn’t actually restrict him considering he could have always left the Jedi to be with his extremely influential, wealthy, and philanthropic wife and would also still be good friends with the literal Supreme Chancellor. The reality is that Anakin wanted the power and prestige of being a Jedi without having to follow their actual philosophy and rules, fuck him. Like, I love Anakin, he’s my favorite character, but fuck the notion that the Jedi “held him back” just because their rules, which he broke, didn’t allow him consumption to his heart’s content

>>32771
I dunno, I think part of why he was in the Jedi was because he felt like he had a duty to try to improve the galaxy from his position of relative power - not just as a jedi but also from his station as a military commander, and personal friend of Palpatine. Plus he was aware of his own chosen one prophesy and did try to actively live up to it.

>>32776
How, specifically, did Anakin do anything to improve life in the Galaxy, outside of fighting in the Clone Wars for, uh, ultimately the wrong side anyway? Like I can see how the Jedi Order did a lot of good, but did Anakin do much in his capacity as a Jedi? I guess you can say it isn’t his fault he was immediately drafted into war, but like regardless if you want to be a Jedi, which is entirely voluntary, you actually should follow the rules of the Jedi, which aren’t actually arbitrary. I get if you find Anakin sympathetic, but that doesn’t make him right.

>>32797
Well by no means an exhaustive list, but

>Saves the unknown alien species from being made into war cyborgs by the Techno Union (Clone Wars TV Show)
>Breaks the Blockade of Ryloth, and later liberates it from the CIS
>Saves several galactic leaders of what was basically Star War's NAM from a Deathwatch plot
>Ends a major branch of the Zygerian slave trade
>Ends a massive engineered bio-plague on Naboo before it manages to spread

Like, he obviously does good things both within and without the context of the war.

>>32817
Alright, fair enough, so you could say Anakin was a great hero, but…he ain’t a great Jedi, and again, the rules of the Jedi exist for a reason. The whole point of the Jedi is that being one is VERY difficult, Qui-Gon tells Anakin that straight up, that it’s a hard life.

To me, Jedi life has benefits being a superhero does not, but also drawbacks being a superhero does not, and I mention superheroes because, well, they are usually who the Jedi are compared to. But the thing is, just being a good person isn’t good enough to be a good Jedi, because good people can be corrupted as well, the Jedi life is a life of total sacrifice for the well-being of others.

new favorite clone, Mayday

>>32911
i'm finding the mandalorian's dialogue increasingly cringe. i just like the pretty armor and the babbling yoda

>>32945
For me I don't actually care for baby yoda, and kinda wish he stayed with Luke so we could get a story more focused on Djin's relationship with his culture. Even if its like, by the end of this season Grogu would come back to Djin after not vibing with jedi training, that is cool. I just think that Djin needs some time to find where he stands with his people.

>>32945
>>32947
That said, Bo and baby Yoda was cute for its briefness, and I would miss that in my hypothetical setup

mandalorian went anti-psych. fuck psychiatry!!

>>33104
It is deeply funny how morally bankrupt the New Republic is. Much like the Republic even pre-Palpatine, it really just shows how little real care they have to the "peripheries" of their society and how much abuse goes on in them, from slavery to corporate exploitation and now also this whole episode really. Even before the whole brainwipe program, having daily confessional sessions with a droid makes it all very detached and impersonal, and really the whole thing really feels like an afterthought to the end of the war babysat by people who only care about it cause it lets them weed out terrorists and Imperial loyalists.

Not to say that Nazis should deserve an "equal chance" mind - I prefer the Soviet method - but the episode really highlighted how an uncritical recreation of the Republic has lead to it instantly taking on many aspects of the Empire - because the Empire was much more a part of the Republic than separate from it.

>>33136
The "Neo-Republicans" must've been the faction with all the money: Mon Mothma, Bail Organa etc. Liberal aristocracy that didn't like the Empire. We hear about more radical factions from Saw Gerrera in Andor like Sectorists or basically Gerrera's own Partisan faction which are basically an anarchistic terroristic group of the socialist-revolutionaries vein from Russia.

>>33136
>daily confessional sessions with a droid
lolmao what
Did nuwars actually do this?

>>33352
I mean yea. That's how liberalism is. Does it surprise you that the New Republic didn't turn out to be revolutionary but simply a rehash of the former reactionary Republic?

People would do well to remember that these shows are intrinsically reactionary. That said, the most recent episode of the Mandalorian was quite enjoyable. I find the pseudo-anti-imperialism quite funny. Mostly I just like all the pretty armors

anyway i bet the Soviets would've made some amazing star wars shows

>>33360
Soviet star wars would be 4 hours long and be about a bald man coming out of a ship to talk to an alcoholic Belarusian guy about death.

>>33361
Russian star wars would merge Cossacks and Samurai instead of Cowboys and Samurai

>>33360
What do you mean they're reactionary? You don't even know what reactionary means.

>>33361
and it would be kino as hell

>>33363
All Spectacular forms of entertainment is counter-revolutionary inherently and therefore reactionary, regardless of its intended message and purpose.

>>33401
Harsh but true.

>>32749
>one mistake
signing up with an infamously inhumane terrorist organization that's dedicated to destroying your sister and everything she represents is much bigger than a mere "mistake"
bo-katan made her bed and now has to lie in it lol

>>33218
Ngl, I think the Star Wars Galaxy and the actual plot of Star Wars is pretty interesting and complex from a sociopolitical perspective, like, you’re right, what a lot of people forget is that from the very first film the Rebellion is explicitly an alliance, these people don’t all have the same actual beliefs and goals, they just oppose the empire who was the biggest game in town, people like Mon Mothma can be and meta-textually are the Coruscant liberal elite who actually didn’t have it bad under the Empire but just despised the aesthetics of the Empire’s outward autocracy

>>33401
Lmao, who cares you fucking nerd?
Imagine thinking fantastical imaginary shit is reactionary by default, lmao, what a sad humorless boring fucking world stalinoids inhabit, no wonder you nighas love hideous brutalist architecture

>>33464
>people like Mon Mothma can be and meta-textually are the Coruscant liberal elite who actually didn’t have it bad under the Empire but just despised the aesthetics of the Empire’s outward autocracy
Also notice how Mon visibly was disgusted or put off by the more "ruthless" tactics of Luthen, she's definitely put off by Saw's tactics. She has the bourgeois elitism and sentimentality of someone who's not used to seeing the Empire's oppression first had. She's not in the prison labor camps dealing with arbitrary longer sentences, nor is she being directly conquered of her home planet Chandrila, also her privileged living conditions have not changed at all. The people and different species are dealing with the brutality first hand of genocide and slave camps and ruthless exploitation of their lands/planets and so their tactics will be that of ruthless resistance.

interesting. latest story dealt with sentient droids and the possibility of a droid rebellion. definitely a parallel to slavery… or so i thought until they removed the agency of the droids malfunctioning to a sole individual. also the "happy slave" mindset, a la Harry Potter Elves, "we're happy to serve". But at the same time it outright states that the whole planet would collapse were it not for the droid's labor. Hell the droids themselves are shown to have their own bar and sentience, and a "fear" of being replaced as the threat of being scrapped, their entire population being genocided, is a very real reality in which the non-droids can vote to decomission them in their organic only direct democracy. it seems self aware of the implications of droid programmed labor but at the same time, these underlying politics are shoved under the rug due to them finding the culprit and needing to move onto the main story. even then one of the royals, played by jack black, was an ex-imperial and the camera focused on his reaction a bit longer. the head of security was not killed but sent to exile so i foresee a future storyline with himdefinitely a star wars equivalent of a left leaning radical, droid rights activist, communist, post left anti democracy sentiments as well as the political exile having unexplained beef with the ex-imperial democratically elected lord of state. Part of the episodes resolution involves stopping the Political Exile from resetting the droid's programming and thus causing a collapse of automated space luxury communism, so the awareness that the droids labor run their society is there, but its a conclusion that I cannot tell is left unanswered on purpose or shoved under the rug and glossed over for "political correctness". an interesting episode.

>>33531
I think the world will be revisited later a la Navarro because Mandalore stood as the leader of a Galactic Non-Aligned Movement in the past and likely will do so again, and the only reason the plot wasn't explored more imho is there is only 2 episodes left in the season and some semblance of Mandalorian society needs to be restored, and some kind of greater overarching villain needs to be revealed to set up the Ahsoka show.

It is funny, though, how utterly awful the New Republic is shown to be, while a single planet with just mildly shrewd use of resources the New Republic was trying to destroy and dispose of en masse has achieved a comprehensively luxurious lifestyle.

Really just shows the excessive ideological waste of the New Republic / liberalism because they so fervently want to adhere to the symbolism of the Republic they are willing to condemn an entire group of very clearly sentient people (in battledroids) to death. The NR is basically doing a mass droid genocide for the sake of their own aesthetics.

moff gideon's mando armor kind of looks like a roblox 3d model i made and so thats cool.

>>33465
Stalinist?

>>33531
I find it interesting since my head initially went to robot/proletarian allegory as well, but really the planet is living the FALSC dream exactly as many contemporary socialists imagine it - everything automated, free to live in nobility-esque luxury. It is clear that not all the droids are fully sentient or autonomous, evident by Din kicking the super battle droids and their lack of reaction. Perhaps it is truly a model society?

>>33592
Droids may not earnestly care about doing harder labor if they don't feel exhaustion and don't have to worry about a biological clock, and it beats being genocided by the New Republic. If the story wants to earnestly affirm space communism with Jack Black characteristics, then I don't think it'd be that hard.

>>33595
execute all aristocrats

>>33595
Automated Gay Luxury Space Communism with Jack Black Juchian Characteristics(NOT CLICKBAIT)

>>33595
> direct democratic elections
wat

>>33601
Libs think democracy is when you can ellect anyone, the more you let Trumps and Bolsonaros be elected, the more Democratic it is.

jar jar binks comics from star wars tale is really funny
but also sad about his mother and father just being a fake marriage

the finale was okay, I guess

>>32731
Well she's gotta make ends meet somehow lol

>>32733
Those episodes were so asinine in retrospect, it's like all the characters had their intelligence downgraded and may of them have completely inappropriate lacks of reaction to situations. The IG droid situation was pointless and made no sense considering that he blew himself the fuck up. The Mandalorian who we learn has his son taken by that flying monster barely reacts to the fact, even though the Mandalorians are supposed to be passionate hotblooded warriors, even if they are coldly militant at times.
The retroactive aspect of Grogu and Luke is annoying too. They had this entire build up and finale at the end of S2 then just roll it back because "that baby Yoda sure brings in the money!" Also removing Gina Carano was a mistake, she had good chemistry with Mando. The new character meant to fill in her "kickass woman" role in the series (the Imperial Remnant Officer) just lacks charisma (or the body for that matter) to pull off the Amazonian warrior aspect Cara Dune brought.

Also Andor sucks. It's typical liberal "moral greyness" that isn't actually grey and is just inanity. The show ends up making the Empire look good because it essentially makes the rebels out to be a bunch of miserable cowards, sociopathic freaks and mindless drones; Wow, much grey, very real. Absolute trashfire. Andrew Serkis was one of the few parts of the series that I enjoyed, because he's a phenomenal actor and had some control over writing the character out.

>>32731
Ahsoka Tano was a Padawan of the Jedi Order, so young and so underaged, she could use the miniskirts to influence the men to create… boners. She had such a knowledge of the jailbait, she could even keep the ones she cared about from the FBI.

The underaged side of the seduction is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be… illegal.

She became so powerful that the only thing she was afraid of was losing her power, which eventually of course she did. Unfortunately, she taught her fellow Padawan Baris Offee everything she knew, then Baris framed her for the Jedi Temple bombings. The public dismissed her claims of an inside job as conspiracy theory.

Ironic, she could save others from the FBI, but not herself.

>>33595
So basically the same scene as from The Rings of Power when the elves visit the Dwarf King.

>>32091
LMAO I made that last one a decade ago when I just graduated from high school. To still see it posted here…

Was Anakin right?

>>36107
>Also Andor sucks. It's typical liberal "moral greyness" that isn't actually grey and is just inanity.
Moral greyness is a real thing when it comes to war or rebellion. That doesn't make a cause more right or wrong and the rebels are portrayed as being still on the right side of history. What's great about Andor is that they drop hints about the possible negative, proto-fascist aspects of the Republic, which is much more realistic than the Empire falling from the sky out of nowhere.
>The show ends up making the Empire look good because it essentially makes the rebels out to be a bunch of miserable cowards, sociopathic freaks and mindless drones
What, because they don't have plot armor this time? The Empire wasn't made to look good but more competent and fascistic. Maybe you could sympathize with some Imperials becase some of them were pretty young trying to do their job after they were placed in a position of responsibility and just drank the Imperial kool-aid - very reminiscent of actual fascist movements.

Were the writers liberals? Yeah, probably. Duh.

So what's the consenus on the Ahsoka show? I find it good enough not to find it bad - it's made pretty well, music is nice, it looks gorgeous, the dialog is a bit clumsy and some motivations of the characters don't make sense to me so far but I can overlook that. Some stuff triggers me, like Ahsoka jumping from platform to platform without a rope or magnetic boots in the vacuum of space - but she's a force user, so whatever. Space magic.

Some complain that it's "too girlbossy" but I don't think that is happening at all, it's not "in your face" it's just a show with a lot of female characters. Did you that the actress who plays shin, the Dark Jedi apprentice is Ukrainian and cultural ambassador of Zelenski?
>be Ukrainian actress
>play a fascist
The joke makes itself.

>>36404
>Moral greyness is a real thing when it comes to war or rebellion
Yes it is, but how it is depicted matters, because in a story just saying "muh both sides" with no other genuine point is just inane, it doesn't actually go anywhere. It resembles Чернуха, a genre of Russian film where it's just so nihilistic and meanspirited that you're just left thinking "so what's the point then, that everyone and everything sucks?" - utter misery porn. You want a good depiction of revolutionary moral greyness in a story? Read Sholokhov's Quiet Flows the Don or watch the film. Or Bulgakov's The Days of the Turbins, or the film Come and See, or Бумбараш and any number of Soviet books and films regarding war and rebellion.

>the rebels are portrayed as being still on the right side of history
Except they aren't. Ironically the Star Wars Rebel's cartoon does a better job of this than Andor. The Rebels are a mix of fanatics, greedy bourgs and liberals that use people with nothing to lose or that fight for money to do their dirty deeds. They cause misery and problems for the population and their leadership dismisses it, they have no plan or real methods and just come off like a bunch of wreckers provoking a fascist government. They actually make the fucking Empire look good in comparison, since the Empire's harsh actions are a result of their "rebellion" most of the time. There is no bright side here. The liberals want Mon Mothma to BE the bright side, but she's a SuccDem liberal pacificist.
Saw Guerrera is also annoying as hell, an obvious and negative allusion to Che Guevara that is unprincipled (changing his mind for little good reason), unnecessarily violent and uncaring of the pain he may bring others and generally just being all bluster about rebellion while having no other ideology than "muh freedum" a complete mockery of Che's legacy and of revolution in general. Not a single one of the rebel characters has genuine ideals or revolutionary passion, not a single one is even an authentic fanatic, they're all just miserable vermin clawing for power, influence, money, revenge or vague shallow imitations of ideology.
>Maybe you could sympathize with some Imperials becase some of them were pretty young trying to do their job after they were placed in a position of responsibility and just drank the Imperial kool-aid - very reminiscent of actual fascist movements.
True, but at the same time they're also the most authentic characters in the show, genuinely wanting to do good and thinking they are doing the right thing. At least these characters, caricaturesque as they are in places, have more heart in them. You feel sympathy for them. I look on the rebels and every one of them is one or another sort of scumbag.

>What's great about Andor is that they drop hints about the possible negative, proto-fascist aspects of the Republic
Except that's not great at all. The entire POINT of the original trilogy and prequels was the rise and fall of a fascistic empire that arose from the corrupt greed of a capitalist hegemon. Coruscant and the developed planets are LITERALLY a depiction of America and its allies relative to the Outer Rim (3rd World). Even the CIS is a depiction of a grand-scale conflict involving Second and Third World planets fighting against the First World Core. These are on a grand scale. Obviously on a low level there are going to be moral grey zones, but the overarching ideals remain.
The Rebellion was thematically a rejection of all fascism and tyranny, it was a heroic fight against oppression that was supposed to conclude with a new, reformed republic. What we get instead is just a return to the status quo and "muh realism (TM)" which is the most tiresome, edgy trope imaginable.

>because they don't have plot armor this time
<Rebels lose most battles in Old Star Wars and even in the 2 climactic victories they had over the Death Stars lost immense numbers of ships and troops.
<Ignores the story being character driven
<ignores even main characters dying or having horrible shit happen to them
Ah yes, like Darth Vader and his plot armor of losing all his limbs or Luke losing his arm and nearly dying several times.
Yeah no. This shit about "muh plot armor" doesn't apply to OG SW. Star Wars isn't a hyper-realistic setting. It's always been a character-driven story set in a mix of Space-Western and Swords and Sorcery. A good morally grey and relatively more realistic space-western that doesn't do "plot armor" as you imply would be Firefly + Serenity, as it doesn't shy from killing characters and has the good guys lose or get hurt plenty.
>The Empire wasn't made to look good but more competent and fascistic.
It's depicted as far less fascistic in Andor prior to the Rebel's actions, and the Empire has always been competent. This "incompetent Empire" meme is just that a meme, born of the fact that we follow its exploits through the lens of characters opposing and negative towards the Empire, and so scornful of it. Andor still has us follow the story through characters that dislike the Empire… and yet the Empire still looks like the lesser evil in comparison, that's a major fuck up, though as you said - The Writers are libs, duh.

Unironically I think the Boba Fett show was better, and it was a mess relatively. Even the lame Mandalorian Season 3 was better than this shit.

TL;DR: Star War's is science-fantasy fiction, it's meant to be thematic first and foremost, thus Darth Vader's actions of slaughtering children and killing his wife, thus the purity and naivety of Luke, thus the rough-around-the-edge but good-at-heart Han Solo. Moral greyness has its place in Star Wars, you can see it in the very first film, however how it is done is important. Andor fails in this aspect. It's plot is inane, the main character just an insert that just ends up in these situations and everything is just bleak and miserable with no real upside.
Better depictions of "moral greyness" can be found in Star Wars Legends EU, such as General Grievous' backstory.

>>36406
You are a midwit.

The creator is left wing. He also made the Bourne series of movies which criticized the EU's treatment of Greece and Russia's 90's collapse and privatization along with the CIA and tech sector and he even said he was inspired for Andor's robbery scene from the early Bolshevik train robberies. In fact you sound like you've never watched the show the entire point is Andor's radicalization journey from "I don't care leave me alone and I'll go find a beach somewhere to retire" to "holy shit we have to fight there is no other way". Not to mention the presence of genuine idealists like Cinta or Nemik involved in the fight.

The empire does not look good at all. They torture people, hand out unjust prison sentences, massacre their prisoners, and are just so odious that if you walked away thinking the Empire looked good that says more about you than anyone else.

>>36437
>Midwit
Meaningless ad hom
>C-creator is LEFTIST
Liberal LARPers are not leftists
>made the Bourne series of movies
irrelevant, and other than the first 2 films, the Bourne series was contrived as fuck and literally pulls the "secret evil sect of the CIA that akchually is a rouge operator" BS that Hollywood always does.
>he even said he was inspired for Andor's robbery scene from the early Bolshevik train robberies.
LARP and as someone that grew up watching Неуловимые Мстители and Как Закалялась Сталь his imitation was awful. The illogical actions of characters are so beyond the suspension of disbelief in this "realistic take" that it's impossible to ignore. C ass's search for a "surviving sister" which was a lie and a pointless insert in the story for the sake of introducing misery porn, the Hostess at the brothel approaching some random stranger that looks like a bum rather than the Imperial patrons that came earlier was retarded when everyone under the Empire would know better than to ignore such customers, especially in cutthroat establishments like a bottom-rung whorehouse. This creates the entire shitty situation outside in the rain and then Andor just casually murders an unarmed mook begging on his knees, a man whose only crime is at worst being an asshole. Murder for being an asshole… amazing history.
>the entire point is Andor's radicalization journey from "I don't care leave me alone and I'll go find a beach somewhere to retire" to "holy shit we have to fight there is no other way".
And it FAILS at that because his motivation for joining feels forced as fuck. It jumps from cartoonishly caricaturesque evil to "muh uber-realism" and back again.
>Cinta
LMAO I'm not even going into that laughable liberal depiction - literally "strong non-white womyn" stereotype that Disney inserts everywhere. Oh and of course lesbian too, for the alphabet-soup brownie-points. But of course it's only alluded to with the "share a bed" line so as to not hurt sales in China and the Middle East.
>Nemik
I'll admit that I skipped over him, but yes he is a genuine idealist, so I'll give you that, however his role in the story is tiny and creates a plot-hole. We hardly know the contents of the Manifesto and its impact on the Rebellion is negligible, seeing how we never hear even an inkling of it in The Mandolorian, The Original Trilogy, The Legends Books, the Disney Novels or anywhere else, because it's a retcon.

>They torture people
So do the rebels, and often in contrived and unnecessary circumstances. Moreover this behavior worsens as a reaction to the rebels' actions, in essence causing people misery and pain, as much as the Empire.
>massacre their prisoners
Cartoonish and contrived as fuck, like I said, only Serkis saved that episode from being garbage written by someone that has never been in prison or bothered to study how prison guards actually abuse prisoners. On a large-scale non-political prisoners do not make for good radical revolutionaries, Soviet Revolutionaries went to prison AS revolutionaries, not vice-versa. It's also something that the prisoners are mostly innocuous compared to the cartoonishly evil guards, when such high-security prisons are rife with corruption and vileness like rape, rackets and more, yet we hardly see that, only overbearingly evil prison management. It attempts to homage THX-1138 and in doing so fucks up the aspect of "realism" in the story, as THX's story and oppression featured within is a rather distinct type of cyberpunk dystopia that doesn't fit the theme of a more traditional fascist regime like the Empire, which relies not on the elimination of emotions but on the harnessing, control and direction of them; from propaganda meant to evoke pride or hatred to dissenters, to the very design of the storm-trooper and ISB uniforms meant to evoke fear and dominance.

The over-all theme of Cass realizing he can't escape the empire and can either be crushed under the Imperials boot or fight back. This becoming accelerated as the ISB clamp down on the people as a result of the train robbery creating increased tensions is theoretically good, but the execution of this idea, in depiction and script is typical burger libshit, and this is among the better episodes. Other ones are worse and the first one was just fucking inane from all sorts of angles. Moreover the problem of "he can't escape the Empire's oppression" is fucking stupid because he can just flee to the Outer Rim, a safe haven for criminals and where the rebellion also hid much of its forces, thus it further undermines the plot since the entire situation is contrived, even more so because, even if he isn't arrested for the train robbery, and instead a trumped up charge, he still DID commit a crime, which means regardless of what the official charge was, he's a criminal. If they depicted him as having nothing to do with the actual robbery, but having been aware of it through interactions with 'rebels' and then arrested by proxy, that would be much more thematically consistent.

Also compare this to the character Ezra from Star Wars Rebels, he isn't an adult that knows the criminal world well enough to smuggle himself out, he's just a delinquent whose parents were arrested and executed. This street rat disliked the empire, but also is skeptical of the rebel movement. As he matures, he opposes the Empire with actual purpose and direction while warming up to the rebellion. He has no option to flee until later and by the time he could, he no longer will.
>just so odious that if you walked away thinking the Empire looked good that says more about you
Reading this I have to say YOU are the midwit and a speedreader too; I said that in comparison the larger representation of the rebellion the empire appears good, not that the empire itself is good, you fallacious imbecile.

The only reason people "like" Andor is
A) Because it's edgy and gritty and not Star Wars*
B) Because it's better than that idiotic Kenobi series and other recent Disney project failures

*Star Wars is supposed to be, exciting, emotional, colorful and futuristic with serious, sad and philosophical moments, encapsulated within old-school story-telling. It is not supposed to bare-bones misery-porn and political preaching. While George Lucas was certainly touching on politics in his films and stories, the main point was not just the main character of the story he was telling, but also the story, without one or the other the film would fail.

Andor fails this because it's base idea may be interesting, but the execution lacks any charm and has little passion. Nemik is the most passionate character in this (although performance-wise Serkis did a fantastic job of displaying this as well) yet relative to the story he's a side-character and does not set the tone for the rebels or the protagonist who are muddier than a catfish. Cass feels like a Self-Insert, and not the idealist kind as Luke is often claimed to be; almost like Player Character in a DnD quest. Roll a d2, get kidnapped from your stupid Planet of the Children, Timeskip and get into a criminal plot, Roll a d15 - train robbery goes well. Roll a d2, get arrested by guards for false charges and imprisoned etc. etc. The main character is like some puppet thrown into a formulaic plot and wriggling through them towards an inevitable characterization dictated by a different prequel retcon movie (Rogue One).

>>32731
3D CG has really advanced since the 2010s, especially regarding skin-textures, shading, movement flexibility and reducing clipping.
Also 3D pron thread >>>/siberia/297367
3D sfw >>>/draw/1454
>>>/draw/3811 Alunya 3D
SFM >>>/hobby/35530

>>36107
> The show ends up making the Empire look good
the show pretty much presents the empire as a fascist police state running concentration camps where prisoners are worked to death and somehow it makes the empire look good? why do people come to leftypol to say the stupidest contrarian shit imaginable. i mean you could plausibly argue that they make the empire look a bit better than nazi germany because they only showed the concentration camps and didn't really dwell on the extermination camps but even that's pushing it a lot.

>>36405
seems crazy fucking boring. even huge fans of the clone wars show should avoid watching that shit and do something more entertaining such as filing taxes.

>>36457
>why do people come to leftypol
I've been on leftypol since before the leftpol split on 8ch.
>say the stupidest contrarian shit
<It's contrarian because the person doesn't like the show that everyone is praising
No faggot, I explain quite thoroughly in my posts, rather than seething, short bitch-fits like yours'

>the show pretty much presents the empire as a fascist police state running concentration camps where prisoners are worked to death and somehow it makes the empire look good
Stop being a speedreader; I said that the depiction of the main character and the "rebels" and whatnot make the empire look good by comparison, not that the Empire IS good. And moreover the depictions and actions of many characters are inconsistent, illogical and clash with the ideas the story is attempting to present, especially given its emphasis on "realism" within the setting.
>you could plausibly argue that they make the empire look a bit better than nazi germany because they only showed the concentration camps and didn't really dwell on the extermination camps
That's the problem, like in a lot of shows depicting fascism heavy-handidly, they fail to present it as bad and so have to resort to extremes so as to point and say "see it really IS evil" even though it feels dysfunctional and disjoined within the setting. The Empire IS evil and concentration camps would be consistent, but the depiction of it is so stupid, especially when the opposition we're supposed to be cheering for is a dismal lot of scum that aren't any better, and are only not doing the same because they don't have the power to do so. It's the equivalent of supporting the Polish Government in Exile (from WW2) relative to Nazi Germany, when the Polish Sanitsia was just as scummy, and were simply incapable of enforcing their own form of oppression and exploitation. It's inane, especially since within the original story of Star Wars, regardless of the minor details, the Rebellion was truly a force of good and justice, that may not have been perfect, but had moral and ideological highground over the Empire, which is part of why they win. The Rebellion in Andor reminds me of Nazi propaganda depictions of the French Resistance.

>>36467
Don’t tell this nigha about the elicit activities the bolsheviks carried out while in exile lmao

>>36107
>>36467
Also you didn’t actually explain how the show makes the Empire look better you witless faggot, all you did was whine about the fact that the regular people who ended up with the galactic insurgency weren’t all squeaky clean heroes who never feared and always knew what they were doing

It’s actually ironic as fuck to see a site where most people worship the bolsheviks and USSR but your ass is here whining about how the Rebellion had to do some shady shit to be able to confront an extremely powerful, murderous, unstable fascist regime

>>36470
Reread my post you imbecile, I grew up on films and books about the Revolution, given my background. My own great-grandfather was one and his father as well.
Also
>implying that the Bolshevik movement was unitary before 1920
<implying that the Bolshevik leadership condoned anarkid wrecker shit
Lenin was hardcore about reigning and directing red terror in a manner that benefited the Revolution, not random sabotage, encouraging a united leadership in ideology as well as action, not this inane bullshit conglomerate that Andor has, consisting of space-Kulaks and liberals.
>hine about the fact that the regular people who ended up with the galactic insurgency weren’t all squeaky clean heroes who never feared and always knew what they were doing
Nice strawman there faggolo. That's not what I said at all. What I said is that this is fiction with a story that has a specific idea behind it, through a specific character. However the idea is skewed because of multiple reasons such as the hero being violent not because he has to be, but because he's a cowardly, snivelling sociopath going with the flow, and the other rebels are mostly the same. He's supposed to be motivated to join the rebel movement, but instead just gets dragged along, like shit in a current.
>the Rebellion had to do some shady shit to
No you brainless, speedreading simpleton. The rebellion in the original and pre-Disney works also did shady shit. Stealing from a train for example isn't the problem - it makes sense and is obviously a rebel-partisan act. It's how this is executed, and with what motivations and characters; The motivations are not revolutionary, it's just petite-bourgs fucking around because the Empire didn't cut them into the deal and so they're lashing out, using mercenaries and psychopaths to do it. That's not the actions of a leftist revolutionary, that's the actions of a reactionary subversive element, like the Basmachi counter-revolutionaries that the Bolsheviks fought AGAINST in Mid-East Asia.
>you didn’t actually explain how the show makes the Empire look better
I did, in simple terms: the rebels act just like the Empire - greedy, ruthless, violent and scummy, but even worse, because their actions harm the people they're supposedly fighting for. It would take literal essays to break-down each moment of the Empire compared to the Rebels in this show to see how the Empire looks justified to anyone looking at this from a neutral lens and not already aware that the rebels are supposed to be the 'good guys'. The imperial raid has some moron literally rush them when told to stop so they gun the fat fuck down… even though in the context of the scene, it's utterly illogical for whats-his-face character to do that and the ISB literally responded to an attempted assault. I'm not defending the empire here, I'm stating that from the way we see this scene in episode 3 the actions of the Agents appears more rational and justified than the actions of the supposedly justified rebels. Let me repeat - the show makes THE EMPIRE'S AGENTS appear MORE RATIONAL and JUSTIFIED than their opponents.

Compare this to Cass who gets into a fight with a couple of drunken mook asshole who don't know him and who he will never see again, nor have a way of tracking him, yet when the man is begging for his life in the street, he shoots him in the head in cold blood. Wow, such moral greyness, much drama! And then even more comedically the local Imperials decide to sweep it under the rug - the command literally decides to mark it down as a tragic accident and dismiss it, rather than (as expected of a fascist empire) cracking down harshly, locking down the area and mass-arresting suspects as has been depicted in other shows, films and books of Star Wars and in real life dictatorships. And the reasoning for this is literally taken from anti-Soviet propaganda about Soviet militia forces under-reporting crimes because of "muh bureaucracy". Especially when, if the crime report was supposed to look good to the upper command, they could simply have done what they do in another episode - arrest and frame some random person and mark the case solved.

So to compare - Imperial Agents kill a man that may assault them (excessive police violence) vs our "hero", beats up a drunk pair of glorified deputies and then when they are no threat to him and have no way of IDing him, fucking murders them execution style, which is not only abhorrent, but also stupidly illogical because any criminal knows that cop-killing is a surefire way to get the fucking feds hunting you, a desperate, aimless criminal like Cass would be avoiding that at all costs. So not only does Cass appear far more immoral to the Imperials, but he also is depicted as doing so not only with no clear reason, but directly contrary to his own interests at the time. So yes in the context of Cass and the other "rebel" characters the Empire appears more justified and decent than it has any right to be. Hilariously enough Andor later spares an Imperial Officer in Episode 3 despite having MORE reason to kill the officer… why? Because who fucking knows, because he never has any impact on the plot after this. Maybe Season 2 will have something, but regardless it'll be contrived.

The entire show is like this with fucking CawofDoody tier writing, but because Western audiences fap to this LARP conception of revolutionaries (projecting their inner fantasies, insecurities and strawmen), they lap this shit up as "realistic" and 'gritty'. It isn't, this is stupid writing from both a realism perspective, and from the perspective of a story with greater themes over the base plot. Since the actual actions and depictions gainsay much of the supposedly intended themes.

Another example is in Episode 4 where supposedly the shepherds in the mountains were oppressed by the Evuuul Empire… even though within the conversation of Andor and the StrongWomanStereotype#243 it's revealed that the Empire built apartments and homes that most of the indigenous residents basically chose to live in rather than remain troglodytes… and it's even proven to be a choice because there remain people that prefer to live in nature as hermits. In episode 6 we actually see more of these Indigenous peoples that the 'rebel' group Andor joins is supposedly sympathetic to; on a pilgrimage to the area of the rare natural event that will occur, which is also conveniently near a developing Imperial base. The Imperials wish to place an landing pad on the sacred plateau, that the local population venerates. And how does the EVUL EMPIRE behave towards these undeveloped aboriginals? Do they massacre them with superior firepower, intentionally and unintentionally spread disease among the population, rape their women, take their lands and resources while forcing their remainders onto sparse reservations like the United States did to the Native American tribes? Do they enslave and force them to work on plantations like the British and Americans did to Africans? No. Instead they offer transport to the plateau, build taverns for rest, food and drink catering to local tastes. Not only that, but those remaining 60 pilgrims that continue onwards are not warded off with guns, but greeted cordially, and the Imperial Officer in charge proceeds to personally greet and welcome these people, respecting their traditional ways, requesting politely to join them and exchanging goat skins with them as a token of peace and friendship. All to subtly discourage this religious remnant of a tradition. Let me remind you that this is not the corrupt Republic, but the FASCIST GALACTIC EMPIRE led by one of the most evil villains to exist in fiction or reality. Let me also remind you that discouragement of religious spooks is something encouraged by communist thought, while rhetoric such as Nemik's harping about the better past that is "forgotten" is reminiscent of typical succdem bleating about "good capitalism not bad capitalism!" As a reminder, the Bolsheviks tore down churches that were not considered culturally significant or works of art. Compare this to rebels' attitude towards the aboriginals that reeks of typical entitled american liberal rhetoric, of "you poor uneducated minority, let me act on your behalf, you just don't know you're being oppressed by these actions!" taking away all agency of this indigenous people, who are not being maltreated in any way, but in fact are being treated well in an attempt to benignly integrate them into the Empire.

Then the rebels burst in, kidnap the Officer's family including his young son, and when the Officer states that regardless of what he'll do, they'd kill all of them anyway, to which LeadStrongWomanStereotype#243 accuses him of doing the same, in spite of his actions on the planet being in direct contrary to this claim. The actions following, wherein the "rebels" force the guards to load coin until the old one dies of heartfailure, results in the Imperials REBELLING against the rebels. The writers probably thought they were being very clever with this ironic turn of events, but it's just stupid, and again just makes the rebels out to be little more than bandits.
>inb4 muh Romanoffs
The EMPEROR of an empire is completely incomparable to some officer in some backwater who has literally done nothing to evoke such retribution, not to mention that revolutions rely on low-level officers and troops being swayed to the opposing side such as in the case of the RKKA. Moreover Lenin himself was against the execution of the Tsar's family as it made him a martyr and the killing of the children was pointless given that the Czar had abdicated long before the Bolsheviks even took power, the Ural Soviet took action on their own and against Lenin's orders. I'm not even going to mention that in regards to children Stalin held a policy that "the son is not responsible for the sins of the father" in regards to counter-revolutionaries and their families. This action may be realistic, but the point is that in regards to this entire situation, AGAIN, the Empire appears more benign than the fucking rebels, especially considering the violent backlash these activities cause. The entire heist is supposed to be an "homage" to Soviet films, but it's so ass-backwards that I can only assume that either the writer is an anti-communist, or has hands growing out of his ass.

Let me reiterate for umpteenth time, the Empire is an evil, fascist dictatorship, but these depictions of it and the rebels are so fucking contradictory to this narrative, that the only reason we see the Empire as evil, is the backlash that the rash, wrecker activities of the so-called-rebels inflict upon the local peoples, while the actual rebels remain unscathed. That isn't grey morality or realism, that's just retarded story-telling.

Or another example, when Cass gets snitched on by Bix's jealous BF, his criminal report regarding actions ranges from assault, to sabotage and other felonies each of which on their own in the USA today, can land you a 5-15 year prison sentence at the very least, yet this fucker is free as a fucking bird despite being known to the Empire as an active dissenter and criminal - how the fuck does that work? Either the Empire is a totalitarian, regime that brutally cracks down on crime in excess or it's an incompetent bunch of idiots. Frankly speaking why the fuck should I care about Cass? He's a swindling, murdering dirtbag that, out of all the characters, deserves his prison sentence. You think the Bolsheviks were tolerant of this shit? 70+% of the Gulag was criminals, and not political ones either, were they all secretly revolutionary for doing crime? Or I guess the USSR was evil for punishing looters, rapists and war criminals in its ranks with execution by firing squad? In real life loose canons like Cassian would be fucking shot in the back by fellow rebels, for being a scumbag. The depiction of "concentration camps" is literally the same shit people screech about Gulags, but because everyone already has the concepts of the rebels being good guys overall and the Empire being a fascist dictatorship, (holding over from the OT), it skews everything, creating a mess of a message.

The biggest fucking comedy of all is that this entire shitshow takes place less than FIVE YEARS BEFORE A New Hope and it's stated, seen and implied over the series that the Empire only cracked down just now, with the rebels already "existing" as is even though
A) In the original canon, the crackdown began with the fall of the Republic, and is seen in examples like the glassing of Geonosis, and so should have been going on for much longer than 5 years
B) The rebels, like any revolutionary group began actively fighting back as the fascist Empire's actions drove people to rebel, and as the Empire tried to suppress this, drove even MORE people into the rebellion.
Yet according to Andor the Empire has been relatively complacent until very recently and it takes an extremely short time for dissenters and disgruntled people to rise up… which goes directly against dialectical materialist analysis and reality itself - the Russian Empire was harsh as is, but rebellion didn't take off until WW1 worsened things by so much that the people literally had nothing left to lose.
In the OT by the Battle of Yavin, the rebellion was an organized group with a military discipline and organization that supposedly all came together in 5 years? The Russian revolutionary groups took decades to gain such influence, unity and organization, and even then part of the reason the Red Army had any discipline and military capability was because many Tsarist officers and White Army soldiers defected and were a driving force behind the military arm, for example Marshal Zhukov, or Budyonny.
So not only is this show's plot a retcon with counter-revolutionary ideology masquerading as "revolutionary" but it also is in direct conflict with reality and realistic depiction. So what we have is an edgy, nonsensical mess, pretending to be "DEEEEEP"

You want moral greyness? They should have had one of the rebel "leaders" get lynched by his men for trying to use the rebellion for his own ends, rather than being true to the cause, that would have been fucking moral greyness. Or having a Rebel fighter group capture a group of storm-troopers and ISB agents, but because they have no way of keeping POWs and can't just let them go to fight against them another day, are forced to execute them. Or do what Come and See did, with the actions of the rebels having huge consequences for local civilians under occupation, in the form of war crimes, and when the rebels finally take the village/planet/etc., they execute the war criminals without a trial, and move on to fight the next grim battle. THAT is morally grey and mature writing of a revolution, that is a display of rebels in gritty reality without stooping to making the rebels merely a ragtag loose group of liberal oppositionists, opportunist kulaks and marauding bandits masquerading as an opposition to the Empire. Anyone that likes Andor's counter-revolutionary depiction of rebels is either a blind moron or a fucking toxic psychopath.

TL;DR: Andor's depiction of "revolutionaries" and "rebels" is literally /pol/'s old meme of Commissar Jamal coming for your toothbrush. I've literally cited examples of morally grey stories about revolutionaries and rebellion in >>36440 and >>36406 that are actually good. This show is not and you're a moron for not seeing the blatant liberalism oozing from this edgy shitpile of a show. FUCK ANDOR AND FUCK YOU.

>>36473
Wow
That’s quite a wall of text of tankie seething

>>36476
>hurr you didn't explain yourself and you're just a contrarian
<explain my points further
>LOL ur just a seething tankie
Ok liberast, thanks for conceding.

Also you're a typical /pol/-tier, product-consooming burger; when actually given an argument, you just resort to ad hom, because you can't read. Go back chinlet.

>>36467
>>36473
give it up ginjeet

>>36479
Loving authority and state power doesn't make you a leftist

>>36467
>>36473
>Stop being a speedreader;
uygha nobody will read your retarded walls of texts thoroughly, you say nothing of worth anyway. must be kinda sad to be you, a witless fuck unable to communicate ideas in a compelling and concise way.

>>36473
Imagine being this mad about a series with space glow swords and laser guns and tiny bears living in a forest. Have sex, touch grass, go outside at least to feel the sun, which is an actual thing in the real world.

>>36481
>The show portrays the rebels in a counter-revolutionary manner that makes the empire look COMPARATIVELY good
<LOL u just luv uthority
Cope more ankid.

>>36483
>More TL;DR cope
I stated my opinion succinctly, and was accused of "not explaining" but when I explain myself further; you bitch and moan about not reading it and use ad hominum like a typical infantile moron - hiding your illiteracy and ignorance behind dismissal
>unable to communicate ideas in a compelling and concise
I'm critiquing a TV-show that has an overall run-time longer than several films, I've been very concise, considering I've made several points within a few paragraphs, when a full analysis of a work this large is usually essay-level. As for compelling, the fact that you have no rebutall and have been VPN samefagging your cope replies says more about you. It's sad to see how leftypol has gone from posting and reading large amounts of text because we were more literate than our /pol/ counterparts, to where basic posting is now "text walls".

>>36484
>a series with space glow swords and laser guns
Ah yes, of course, the typical deflection of "it's just muh space fantasy". Putting aside how that strawman isn't an argument, it's funny how the entire past few posts is about Andor being a "realistic" story that is distancing itself from the magical portions of such a setting, proving at least one of my points about how inane it is conceptually.
>Have sex, touch grass, go outsid
Unlike you permanently online, projecting NEETs, I work for a living, and I read literature and watch films as a form of relaxation, entertainment and education, thus I don't soyface over every show with fake-leftist themes like a LARPing ignoramus such as yourself. I suggest you either make an argument or go back to circle-jerking on r/Andor or whatever the subreddit for that show is named.

>>36491
You claim to not be NEET but you demonstrate such a naive way of looking at the world that your brain becomes nonexistent when analyzing themes. For instance you criticize the rebels for acting ruthlessly.

Let's take a concrete example from the show: The heist was done in order to provoke an extreme reaction from the Empire so that they would launch a crackdown and push more people into the rebel camp. Does this sound familiar to you? It's the exact same playbook the CIA uses to try to ferment fbi.gov in color revolutions. The people in China in Tienanmen Square (the protest leaders anyways) confessed that their goal was to get the PLA to massacre everyone so that people would rise up and overthrow the government. They failed because Deng was very restrained.

So we literally have real life events mimicking one of the very same tactics used in the show and you complain because it's not 100% morally "correct"?

Forget about watching shows you should stay in Kindergarten because you've never progressed past that point.

>>36502
>You claim to not be NEET but you demonstrate such a naive way of looking at the world
You're implying a false narrative here by trying to tie in the concept of a "NEET" with "naivety" when they are irrelevant to one another.
>ou criticize the rebels for acting ruthlessly
And again you prove yourself to be a speed-reader. I criticize the DEPICTION of the rebels being manipulative, opportunistic bastards that aren't just ruthless, but needlessly cruel or violent, something that has been criticized in revolutionary rhetoric constantly. The problem isn't the actions of violence in themselves in the instance of rebellion, as I pointed out regarding the heist, but the way, reasoning and methods that we see, especially in comparison to the Empire. I further provided examples of what could be ruthless and dark actions by the rebels that could still be justified or at the very least be understandable acts of a rebel group, rather than just counter-revolutionary depictions of the rebels being a bunch of discount bandits LARPing as revolutionaries and "freedom fighters". It reminds me of Nazi troops, massacring and marauding while purporting to be "freeing" the world of "le bolshevik menace" or the Basmachi, a bunch of glorified Tatar bandits that were "against le evul Soviets".

In other words
A) The Empire and its oppression is closer to a American propaganda depiction of the USSR from the 80s than the depiction of Nazi Germany and the United States as Lucas intended.
and B) the rebels, who are supposed to be heroic revolutionaries are depicted as glorified bandits, that use rebellion as a justification for their awful behaviour, something that every Revolutionary theorist and leader has criticized, from Lenin and Mao, to Che and Sankara.
It's muddled nonsense that feels like an anti-communist, anti-revolutionary jibe.

>The heist was done in order to provoke an extreme reaction from the Empire so that they would launch a crackdown and push more people into the rebel camp.
Which is fucking retarded. Lenin, Che and Castro would spit at this, because while they understood that sabotage and rebel acts would cause crackdowns, which MAY drive people to support the rebellion, that was not the main reason for these actions. Acts like robbing bank-trains was to fund the revolution and cause damage to their political enemies first, and backlash would be mitigated because these actions were grassroots rebellions, from local populations, not from the outside. And furthermore they infiltrated the ranks of the military, agitating revolutionary ideology and making them question the morality of killing their own people, thus destabilizing from within, not harassing from the outside and simply being slapped back.

Yethere we see rebels operating in an area where the people are not rebelling or heavily oppressed, so it's not a grass-roots movement but a foreign provocation that is more likely to drive the locals into supporting the Empire, since logically the Empire would crack down not on the local population, but on people arriving to the planet, making them more likely to lockdown areas and arrest those arriving or trying to leave instead of people staying put in their homes.

>The people in China in Tienanmen Square (the protest leaders anyways) confessed that their goal was to get the PLA to massacre everyone so that people would rise up and overthrow the government. They failed because Deng was very restrained.
Except it fails regardless, and only caused the Chinese people to support the government even more.
In England and the USA during the 1930s the government used tanks to deal with workers protests, let alone acts of rebellion, and the result? A resounding silence amongst the population, and indeed many supported the government, because they blamed the protestors for causing worsening conditions. The same thing happened with the Right-Wing IRA groups during the troubles, as many of their indiscriminate terrorist acts, unlike those by the leftIRA, caused the Brits to crackdown and Northern Ireland's population was temporarily divided as many were angry at the IRA for bringing the British military onto their heads, while the IRA themselves were hiding in their safehouses.

There's a reason the Bolsheviks did not openly antagonize the Russian Empire into military action very often, and instead capitalized on existing acts of violence against peaceful protests or grass-roots rebellion - making sure to spread the news and agitate, which garnered them support in 1917 by the proletarians and peasants, especially as they were organized enough to actually liberate areas and protect them from retribution. Trying to accelerate things like this has almost always worsened things for the Revolution, since it's only made them more marginalized. Revolutionary accelerationism only functions when conditions are already bad enough that rebellion is just under the surface, and a crackdown would be enough to make it erupt. An example would be in the 1930s USA, when workers conditions were getting so bad that people were all but ready to rebel, which is why FDR rushed to give them as much as possible with Social Democratic Welfare Capitalism, assuaging the population, defusing the situation and, in his own words, saving Capitalism. The Empire is an efficient fascist machine, yet its actions in the show are contradictive to the narrative of a fascist Empire - assuaging the locals of that planet makes no sense given the narrative of fascist imperialism - which is why I brought up the USA's massacre of Native Americans. The Republic of the Clone Wars era would have and did use token manipulation to get native populations on planets to side with them or permit their colonialism, but the entire point of the Prequel trilogy was that at the end, the Republic became the Galactic Empire and had gone from a diplomatically manipulative Capitalist society to a militaristic, repressive fascist one and that this became the roots of the growing rebellion, which itself held lingering roots in the CIS' attempt to break away.

>you complain because it's not 100% morally "correct"?
No, I am criticizing it's depiction not matching the stated intent and the contradictory narrative relative to the setting, creating a show that frankly espouses childish and frankly counter-revolutionary depictions of revolution, rebellion and sabotage. That's not even going into shoddy acting, blatant liberal preaching, contrived and illogical actions, plot induced stupidity of the characters and poor cinematography. I'll stick to rewatching/rereading Неуловимые Мстители and Capitaine Casse-Cou, because this is garbage and people that think it's actually good objectively have no taste, comes with the territory of mindlessly consuming Hollywood's schlock of the past decade.

As for you: You've ignored 90% of my argument to make a fallacious strawman, continue with idiotic ad hom and provided a single cherry-picked example of your point, that isn't even relevant to the actual show, given the complete difference of Deng's market-socialist China and The fascist Galactic Empire, as well as the scale of the Tianamen protests compared to the scale of the rebels' actions in Star Wars. Thus you demonstrate a complete lacking in revolutionary history, revolutionary theory, cinematographic depictions of revolution and revolutionaries and in story-narratives.

>Muh Andor is good becuz it's "le dark and gritty"
>Muh grey morals, muh realistic rebellion and No Jedi LOL!
Did I time travel to the 90s or something? Andor is another shitty Disney exploitation of the Star Wars IP, it is boring ass liberal schlock using pseudo-leftist rhetoric and rebel LARP and professing it as revolutionary. Anyone actually well-read in the theory of real revolutionaries should recognize that - regardless of whether the intent of the creators was genuinely meant in good faith - the depictions are all sorts of counter-revolutionary.

Andor's flaccid attempt at material analysis is inconsistent with the narrative it is meant to portray and inconsistent with the narrative of the original films' continuity its setting is based in. The creators openly stated they don't care if they retcon the original Star Wars, which already brings up the question of "Why set it in Star Wars to begin with?" the answer to which is simple; if it wasn't set in such a well known IP, nobody would watch or care for this shit, because it's literally the same as every other crappy, mass-produced radlib Netflix show. There aren't even any stakes because we know how Andor dies… in Rogue One, and almost none of the other characters are sympathetic. I can think of maybe 1 or 2 characters that aren't unlikeable variants of either fodder, walking tokens, writer self-inserts or caricatures.

As for Jedi and the force not being present, one of the things that makes Star Wars so distinct among its contemporaries in the science fiction and science fantasy genre is The Force, it's literally a defining part of the series and avoiding it is just retarded

The first 2 seasons of the Mandalorian did Grey Morality better, hell even Rogue One, though chock-full of dumb shit, did a good depiction of the Fascist Empire's ruthlessness, revolutionary accelerationism, more radical sects of the Rebellion being morally questionable and characters not being plot-armored, all without preaching ideology through lazy idpol stereotypes talking at the audience in exposition dumps and still including the force and even Darth Vader, utilized minimally, but to dramatic effect. Again Rogue One is not a good film, to be honest, but I can admit that it has good portions and the story is at least narratively consistent, even if there are retcons and plotholes and stupid character moments. Andor fails this and people lapping it up are just contrarian hipsters or ignorant as hell.

>>36506
>Lenin, Che and Castro would spit at this, because while they understood that sabotage and rebel acts would cause crackdowns, which MAY drive people to support the rebellion, that was not the main reason for these actions.

Meanwhile in reality:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1905)
>Initially, it was intended that women, children and elderly workers should lead, to emphasize the united nature of the demonstration. Vera Karelina, who was one of Gapon's inner circle, had encouraged women to take part although she expected that there would be casualties

You are an idiot who has no contact with reality. I don't have to address anything else because your childish bleating over what you think your beloved socialists may or may not have done has no basis in the real world.

You do not serve socialism. You serve a man-made religion that you have constructed for yourself that you call "socialism" because you are stubbornly unwilling to accept that socialist leaders or figures took ruthless actions when needed in order to push their respective causes forward.

>>36507
I disagree

>>36511
And again you prove you're a speed-reading retard with half-assed ideology for brains.
>in reality
<bloody Sunday 1905
I fucking knew you'd bring this up, because like all Western-fags that base your knowledge from Wikipedia and Western historiography, your understanding of the situation leading up to 1905's revolt is nonexistant.
>she expected that there would be casualties
<A Revolutionary expected backlash to a protest, so that means that revolutionaries WANT people to be oppressed for "muh revolutionary gainz"
<Leading a protest for workers rights while understanding it has a chance of violent retribution is the same as actively attacking a non-native area with no existing rebellious dissent for the sake of provoking a fascist crackdown and enriching some pissy Kulak
Go outside, find a cliff and take a dive you insidious bad faith faggot.

You are a stupid warped projector who feels attacked because I pointed out what a shit-show this garbage series is relative to cinematography and revolutionary depictions. You WANT revolutionaries to be unscrupulous killers and sociopaths because you are one and want to feel justified in it.
I stated a fact
>Revolutionary accelerationism only functions when conditions are already bad enough that rebellion is just under the surface, and a crackdown would be enough to make it erupt.
Relative to 1905 Russia, this is exactly the case, because unlike Germany at the time, workers conditions in Russia were at snapping point.

>You do not serve socialism
No I don't, because I'm not some mindless drone kowtowing before some violent effigy that you've created in your head. I serve the people, the proletariat and humanity.
>man-made religion
Beyond redundant - all religions are man-made you babbling twat.
>you have constructed for yourself
Meaningless nonsense, every human interprets things in their own way, and while there are some things that are generally universal, each person's experiences and understandings are their own and shaped as much by their own personal lives as the surroundings they share with others.
>you are stubbornly unwilling to accept that socialist leaders or figures took ruthless actions
Yet again you are a blatant, slanderer. I've stated this numerous times, the problem is not ruthless actions, it is wanton ones that serve no purpose or are merely imitations of revolutionary action, but that are played straight by the characters of the series. Moreover socialist leaders and revolutionaries took harsh actions, but reprimanded any brutalities and excesses, because they did not serve the Revolution. Lenin was critical of the Ural Soviet for executing the entire Romanov family the way they did, unnecessarily including the children as well, and in a brutal manner when simply putting a bullet to the back of the head would have sufficed. Such examples are numerous. I already stated examples of ruthlessness that could be depicted of revolutionaries and rebels which would not be disdainfully first-world depictions of what burgers think revolutionary violence is, but clearly you are too busy being a contrarian to see that.

I'd say read a book, but you're clearly an illiterate so I'll do you a favor and post some excerpts myself:

"A chekist can only be a man with a cold head, a hot heart and clean hands. Anyone who becomes cruel and whose heart remains insensitive to prisoners must leave here. Here, as in no other place, you need to be kind and noble." - "Iron" Felix Dzerzhinsky
"The life of a single human being is worth a million times more than all the property of the richest man on earth." - Che, 1960 On Revolutionary Medicine (1960)
"We should not go to the people and say, "Here we are. We come to give you the charity of our presence, to teach you our science, to show you your errors, your lack of culture, your ignorance of elementary things." We should go instead with an inquiring mind and a humble spirit to learn at that great source of wisdom that is the people." - Che, 1960 On Revolutionary Medicine (1960)
=="Why does the guerrilla fighter fight? We must come to the inevitable conclusion that the guerrilla fighter is a social reformer, that he takes up arms responding to the angry protest of the people against their oppressors, and that he fights in order to change the social system that keeps all his unarmed brothers in ignominy and misery." - Che, Ch. I: 1. Essence of Guerrilla Warfare

>>36521
>ok yes so there are indeed cases of socialist leaders knowingly pushing people to get killed in order to serve the greater cause but I carved out an exception for myself to not get owned in an argument and stated it should only happen during a revolutionary situation what now huh???
yeah ok so the KGB writing off Chile early on and deciding to provide no material support but just make propaganda attacking the CIA for killing Allende and the rest never happened and neither did Stalin selling out the Greek workers in the civil war simply to prevent a potential WW3 against the allied powers and neither did the billion other realpolitik decisions that took place haha wow

like I said: you are a child

>>36525 (continued)
Also here since you're so mad that I lazily cited wikipedia I'll piss you off even further by citing a Russian historian with connections to intelligence services who calmly admits that they should have sacrificed France in 1968 in order to achieve a propaganda victory (and nothing else not even a successful revolution - just for propaganda) instead of falling for the exact same trap the Americans pulled in Czechoslovakia.

You should just stop being involved in politics because even if you were involved in a socialist party that won a revolution you'd lose immediately afterwards because you have repeatedly demonstrated a childish naivete about how states actually work to win. I am actually astonished that you seem to imply that you are a Russian citizen but mentally you are less intelligent than a tiktok addicted Western teenager who at least won't try to claim that they are an expert researcher.

>>36525
>Ok yes let me strawman again about death caused by a rebellious act as a possible byproduct and the concept of intentionally evoking pain and suffering onto the people for my own goals
>the KGB writing off Chile early on
This shit again, Allende rejected Soviet help himself, because of his pacifist approach which let Pinochet remain as a general in spite of his ideology. Material support can only be provided if it is willingly accepted. Moreover this was a Soviet mistake, to not directly involve themselves in stopping counter-revolutionary groups like Pinochet or the Contras, not a question about morality or wanton violence. In this case there was violence coming either way.
>Stalin selling out the Greek workers in the civil war
Your examples are nonsequiturs, regarding a socialist state choosing to intervene in a revolution of another country, not a revolutionary group itself taking action within a revolution and so is irrelevant to what is being spoken of here. The scale of this is incomparable to what I am speaking of. A revolutionary group is fighting a war, in the grand scale, those are violent and bloody, but we're not looking at the rebellion from a grand-scale, we're looking at Revolutionaries on a ground-individual level in Andor, which means comparisons of over-arching realpolitik are not applicable.
>"At a meeting with Yugoslav leaders in early 1948 (a few months before Yugoslavia's break with the Soviet Union), described by Milovan Djilas, second-in-command to Tito, Stalin turned to the foreign minister Edvard Kardelj and asked: "Do you believe in the success of the uprising in Greece?"
>''Kardelj replied, "If foreign intervention does not grow, and if serious political and
military errors are not made."''
>''Stalin went on, without paying attention to Kardelj's opinion: "If, if! No, they have
no prospect of success at all. What, do you think that Great Britain and the United
States — the United States, the most powerful state in the world — will permit you to
break their line of communication in the Mediterranean? Nonsense. And we have
no navy. The uprising in Greece must be stopped, and as quickly as possible."''
Furthermore, not assisting Greece or Chile because of real-life futility (compared to Vietnam, Korea or Cuba) is ruthless and calculated action, not wanton violence for the sake of it by individuals.

Like I said, you're a slanderer, who has ignored a massive number of my points, hyperfocused on a strawman of one of my arguments and then goal-post shifted to the point where the conversation is no longer about the merits (or lack thereof) of Andor as a TV-series depiction of Star Wars rebels.

>cite a Russian historia
That's not the meaning of citation. You're an idiot that babbles around, using terminology you don't understand.
>calmly admits that they should have sacrificed France in 1968 in order to achieve a propaganda victory (and nothing else not even a successful revolution - just for propaganda)
He is a historian, and that was his opinion, I even know which interview this is from. Even putting aside how this is irrelevant to the situation being debated (a grassroots revolution under a hegemonic empire) you've completely misrepresented what Fursov is saying here. Fursov is criticizing Soviet reactive politics in terms of the long-term impact, but he understood and explains the geopolitical reasoning. Furthermore I disagree to a point regarding France and Czechoslovakia in 1968, because the post-Stalin backlash to Khruschev's Secret Speech in both countries, the French communist party lost power and support by the people in the government, and open communist agitation so soon after, in 1968 would have been seen in a similar manner to other such agitations in Europe - as a Soviet provocation. Moreover Fursov speaks of the propaganda victory if NATO had been forced to crush protests violently… he ignores the fact that repressions did in fact happen but the reaction was restricted to police and national guard security and never escalated from there. He also ignores similar actions in the USA such as in 1992, 1967 etc. when the military repressed rioters and protestors with tanks, armored vehicles and gun-fire, yet it did nothing to change the status quo, because media control in Western States is sophisticated, as was the means of preventing dissenting media from being spread. The USSR was not as effective in this and suffered for it, but one cannot say that they weren't harsh enough at cracking down on anti-communists, as the Glasnost revealed.
https://www.cddc.vt.edu/sionline/si/beginning.html
Czechoslovakia in the meantime had been subject to years of Radio Svoboda propaganda and the anti-Stalin push in the Warsaw Pact of the 60s further gave liberals and counter-revolutionaries the opportunity to make a grab fro power within the system. But this is just debate on what course of strategic action would have been more successful, not the morality of it or individual actions.
I suggest that anyone that isn't a bad-faith ideologue such as yourself watch Егор Иванов's КАК ПОБРИТЬ ЕЖА. К 50-летию пражской весны, wherein you will see the background, reasoning and justifications of the Soviet intervention in Prague.

As a side note I've been talking about realpolitik for years and I was the one that did not accept the narrative of "Stalin betraying Greece" and brought up the reality of the situation. You're literally parroting my words back at me nearly sentence for sentence, it's fucking laughable.

>you'd lose immediately afterwards because you have repeatedly demonstrated a childish naivete about how states actually work to win.
LMFAO you've moved the goalposts again! First it was the actions of the revolutionaries in the TV-show being imitations of revolution that you failed to debate, then it was "revolutionary violence is necessary" which you misrepresented in an attempt to present it as "violence during a revolution is justified in anything it does" and now it's moved on to "how states work" which is not only hilarious, but utterly irrelevant to the conversation at hand, because the Soviet involvement (or lack of it) in civil unrest and COUNTER-REVOLUTIONARY actions in Chile and Czechoslovakia aren't at all relevant to a story depicting a rebellion within a massive fascist empire. And is even MORE irrelevant to the main topic that I brought up, gratuitous violence for the sake of it, rather than rational necessity as is expected of a Revolutionary fighter or leftist partisan.
>mentally you are less intelligent than a tiktok addicted Western teenager
You're projecting again
>won't try to claim that they are an expert researcher
Where did I claim that?

Let me break this reply-chain down for you honey;
>I stated that Andor was a lazy, liberal depiction of moral greyness, that makes the evil empire look ambigious and the rebels look like scum, which makes the empire look better by comparison - NOT that the Empire was good in itself, but that the depiction makes it appear like the lesser evil because it wasn't committing typical fascist actions that it both canonically did, an should be seen doing in the story, long before the "crackdown".
<An anon stated that revolution has moral greyness, which I did not disagree with
>I stated that the depiction in Andor of the Republic, Empire and Rebels, is inconsistent, contradictory and poorly done and that the rebels of Andor are closer to counter-revolutionary depictions of rebels than the intended effect, and that this makes the show bad on an ideological level as well as other reasons
<You lash out and say I've explained nothing and that the show is good, using ad hominum, and addressing NONE of my points, and instead bringing up the nonsequitur of "the creator is 'left-wing'" and that his intent was to show a revolutionary journey, except that liberalism is not left-wing, vaguely referencing Soviet film does not make something leftist, and that the Revolutionary journey is a lazy, sloppy self-insert character floating around a radlib's conception of rebellion.
<You again ignored all my points and in fact skipped my post entirely to reply to a different post of mine, screaming about contrarianism even though the fandom for this show is contrarianism personified, because it's literally "A Star Wars show that isn't like Star-Wars"
>I replied, repeating that violent necessity and calculative actions are not the same as utter disregard for backlash against the people and is not the same as random violence, and that space-kulaks and liberal pacifists are not our allies. Furthermore I stated that this was counter to the narrative about the rebellion and using several exact examples, I demonstrated how illogical, inconsistent and inane the actions of the rebels and Andor are, and how they resemble counter-revolutionary mercenaries rather than a revolutionary rebel group.
<You reply with ad hom about "seething" and refuse to read like the ignorant /pol/ak you are and VPN samefagging to boot. I point this out
<You then proceed to use more ad hom, bring up irrellevant examples to somehow prove that wanton violence is good, and not only end up disproving your point, while using false equivalencies, but also strawman my argument for the umpteenth time while addressing NONE of the other prior points I made about cinematographic depiction in a counter-revolutionary manner. I also pointed out that the revolution did not just provoke violence against people, it made sure to have the people's back if it did provoke violence from a fascist/capitalist/imperial state, and so garner support and good-will from the population.
>I reiterate what I stated and pointed out again the difference between rational, calculation in making impersonal ruthless decisions, and just being a fuckng loose-cannon wrecker.
<You bring up Bloody Sunday, which proves my prior point about the Bolsheviks and violence
>I explain this and also state quotes of communists and leftist in regards to revolutionaries and communists needing to have regard for the people and human life, and that ruthless action, is not the same as callous disregard
<You ignore this, lash out again like the child you keep accusing me of being and bring up nonsequiturs
So far in this farce of an argument, you've barely attempted anything resembling good faith, and only recently began providing any actual examples of your words (even if misconstrued) simply because I've brow-beaten you into it. Just do yourself a favor and go back to reddit and masturbate to your violent fantasies there.

If you want to argue about violence and the state and bring up Stalin and whatnot, then I'll actually use an example that is more applicable than your own geopolitical ones which have no relevance to a discussion of individual revolutionary groups' actions: The Soviet Policy in regards to POWs and Civilians of Germany.
1) Illya Ehrenburg's "Kill" is well known and appropriate, it was specifically worded to be about encouraging the Soviet troops to fight and kills German troops invading their homes and killing their people (a material and humanitarian concern). It was the Germans that spread edited leaflets where Ehrenburg supposedly encourages the Soviet troops to take German women as their own and rape them. This is counter-revolutionary propaganda meant to provoke and invoke excessive violence
2) In spite (again) of the hatred for the Nazi invaders, Soviet POW policy was humane and a direct contrast to fascist German treatment of their prisoners, this humanity caused many a German soldier to defect to the Soviet side.
3) Upon entering Germany, Stalin and the upper military command issued edicts - any rape, looting or excessive violence would result in harsh reprisal, and they followed through on it, and nobody was above reprimand. Furthermore the Soviets provided supplies, food and help to the cities they liberated, feeding German children and housing German women.
4) The Partisans of Belarus who I brought up before and you summarily ignored, fought against the fascists and the resulting partisan reprisals often decimated towns, further provoking partisan uprising. But this isn't the same as the situation in Andor, the Belarus partisans cared for their people, they did not want reprisal against them, but it would happen regardless under fascist occupation, if not because of them, then for another reason. The people of these captured territories were not being catered to or given humane treatment, they were treated like scum, massacred at a whim and living in constant fear, not peaceably left alone by the Empire, having ceremonial goatskins given to them and provided food and drink a plenty.

Executing war-criminals and traitors is not wanton violence, nor is making POWs do labor, restoring the country they helped destroy. But causing deliberate murder or the innocent for the sake of it is counter-revolutionary barbarism.

The Soviet's did not play pacifist with the Germans, they weren't holding back in battle, they killed, and fought and ruthlessly sought to destroy their enemy, and THAT is justified, those are actions of grey morality, but beyond that? It would be nothing more than subhuman violence, stooping to the level of the fascists they fought against. Trying to justify this and using manipulations of history to try and justify yourself, simply outs you for what you are; a sociopathic scumbag that, like the characters of Andor's rebellion yo identify with, seeks to drape your violent tendencies in a red-flag and pretend it's revolutionary. That's not what revolutionary violence is for and is nothing more than Western, burger bloodlust.

PS
Just as an aside regarding Vera Karelina and Georgy Gapon, who were Right-SRs (political enemies of the Bolsheviks in the coming 1917 Revolution); He was a petty-bourg orthodox priest and traitor that encouraged and wrote the St.Petersburg Workers Petition because of the financial support from Imperial Japan, and until 1905 had been preaching a rhetoric about the Good Czar being bogged down by the corrupt Boyars. He was not even a leftist revolutionary. He was also revealed as a police informant and rightfully murdered after trying to recruit others.

>>36532
>regarding a socialist state choosing to intervene in a revolution of another country, not a revolutionary group itself taking action within a revolution and so is irrelevant to what is being spoken of here. The scale of this is incomparable to what I am speaking of.
Why is scale relevant here? Actions are actions regardless of how big or small they are. Arguably the "big" "macro" scale is even worse. If you're bitching so much about small revolutionary groups taking actions that will lead to wanton violence why would you have a different opinion when a state takes the same actions? The state taking the same action would be even worse and lead to even more people dying. You can't criticize one and support the other which is what you're desperately trying to do to dig yourself out of the logical inconsistency you trapped yourself in.
>cite
That's ok I understand that ESL anons don't really understand the nuances of English. :^)

Anyways let me break down the actual chain of argument since I wasn't even here for the beginning of the argument and only dropped in near the end which must have confused you:

>>36502
Here I mentioned an example from the show and tried to relate it to real life.

In Andor the heist (besides just giving the Rebellion additional necessary funds to continue operations which I forgot to mention in that initial post) was also intended to provoke the Empire into massively overreaching by seeing traitors everywhere and launching a mass crackdown.

I then mentioned how this was a basic CIA tactic used multiple times before in history, with failure cases (like China in the 90s) and success cases like here >>36526 where they successfully managed to provoke a Soviet intervention into Czechoslovakia.

I mentioned Bloody Sunday as an alternative socialist case (and by the way while the debate over Gapon's leanings are still ongoing and questions arise over his loyalties Karelina who was the one who predicted that it would end in bloodshed and she also sided with the Bolsheviks over the Mensheviks so the smear over her being a Right-SR is quite wrong and she was happily living in Leningrad until the 1930s) and since you didn't like that example I also used the vid to point out that Soviet intelligence believed they could have provoked a similar situation in France in '68 and really that there's no reason to take your word over theirs because they were the ones actually in power at the time and you just like me are an internet anon nowhere near the corridors of power.

So there is really no point in continuing the discussion when you've outed yourself as such a stubborn mule. I literally related several real-life examples to point out that Andor used a real-life tactic which was realistic which you are still bitching about 200 posts in or however long this thread is because you claim that "real revolutionaries" don't do this. Well history would disagree and people in power at the time would disagree what else is there to say? Are you a materialist or an idealist? It doesn't matter what you "think" it matters what actions people take. If you choose your own interpretations over what actual former state officials and their friends assessed and did, you are choosing to indulge in delusion over reality.

>>36539
>condescendingwesternfaggot.png
Citation in academics involves proper sourcing, one of the reason Conquest's "citations" are criticized in historiography, something /leftypol/ has pointed out to /pol/ many times.
>"(to) quote (a passage, book, or author) as evidence for or justification of an argument or statement, especially in a scholarly work."

>Why is scale relevant here
Because the discussion is about a rebel group and small individual factions/actions, not the overall movement, idiot. Moreover the actions of an outside state intervening and supporting a rebellion are different to a grassroots rebellion within a state/empire. Thus the 1917 Revolution was different to the Soviet supported rebels in Vietnam, since the latter is acting with the assistance and direction of an organized state.
>Actions are actions regardless of how big or small they are
More goalpost shifting
>the "big" "macro" scale is even worse
The difference is that this is a strategic scale outside of personal or local considerations on a ground-level. This is the same argument used to defend American Vets in Vietnam "It was the government that was doing bad, the troops were just following orders" also known as the Nuremburg defense.
>why would you have a different opinion when a state takes the same actions
Because the examples given are not actions leading to wanton violence by the socialist state/rebellion. In reality the enemy will indulge in wanton violence regardless, (example relevant to Andor; US government genocide of Native American tribes), however within the show we see that the Empire is NOT in fact indulging in wanton violence until prompted to do so by wanton violence of self-proclaimed rebels. That's what my problem is. Had the Empire been depicted as it always has been - the brutal fascist state, crushing dissent and not wasting time with diplomatic bullshit, (an important plotpoint in transition of the Republic into the Empire) then the actions of the rebels wouldn't be nearly as jarring and unnecessarily provocative, since (as in Imperial pre-Revolution Russia) the situation was awful as is. That's my point - the depiction is asinine.
>I understand that ESL anons don't really understand the nuances of English
Ah yes, typical burger self-important ignorance. Citation in academics and academic discussion, as I stated, involves proper sourcing format (Chicago style for example). That's why I don't claim to be "CITING" anyone, I am quoting people, but that is not the same thing.
>I mentioned an example from the show
Yes and I countered that example with my own, explained the context of your example and how it's inane, and why Tianamen is not comparable.
>also intended to provoke the Empire into massively overreaching by seeing traitors everywhere and launching a mass crackdown.
I already covered that, and from what we see in the show, the "funds" are being controlled by the rich-fag that commands the brigade.
> this was a basic CIA tactic
You did not mention the CIA at all, and moreover your argument is again not applicable to this situation, since in both cases the funding came from the outside. You're mixing 2 different things, a revolutionary group stealing funds for a revolution and causing backlash in hunting dissidents, and a foreign provocation in the form of public protests, funded by the foreign powers.
>the debate over Gapon's leanings are still ongoing and questions arise over his loyalties
The debate is ongoing for fools, the man was a police informant and killed rightfully for it. He was, until 1905, propagandizing reactionary "the good king, with the evil underlings" nonsense. It is self-evident.
>Karelina who was the one who predicted that it would end in bloodshed
She predicted the likeliness, but wasn't seeking to just have it done through blatant provocation, moreover the situation at the time was that of near-breaking point.
>she also sided with the Bolsheviks over the Mensheviks
Trotsky also did, before attempting to form his own bloc after Lenin's death, it's called opportunism; joining the winning side to continue to operate.
>really that there's no reason to take your word over theirs because they were the ones actually in power at the time
Except I explained and provided examples of similar examples of Western states quelling leftist riots with military force and receiving little backlash in public media for it, because they controlled the media and so forms of information spread. Today this would be different, the internet allows near-instant information release, meaning the CIA has to use other tactics now, compared to then. This is all in the COINTEL PRO handbook.

>I literally related several real-life examples
So have I, and I addressed all of yours, you have not addressed mine.
>Andor used a real-life tactic
Oh yes, the same tactic the Basmachi and Banderites used; cause chaos, get cracked down on, and then cry about being repressed and fighting against oppressive government. That's been my point the entire time - Andor's depiction of rebels makes the rebellion out to be more like the counter-revolutionary bandits than the revolutionary rebels they are supposed to be.
>you are still bitching about 200 posts in
Nice hyperbole faggot. Recall that this all started from my off-hand statement that Andor is a poorly made liberal depiction of "rebellion", nobody made you reply and demand an explanation.
>it matters what actions people take
Yes, and in film it matters how these actions are depicted and written, because that determines what those actions mean.
>history would disagree
History is not dichotomous, just because individual revolutionaries took such actions does not mean it is universally accepted or condoned, nor does that mean that rational strategic actions that are ruthless are the same as the spiteful activities of individuals and groups acting under the name/banner of a greater movement. You would not attribute the actions of Islamic militants to all of Islamic religion would you? Or the manipulations of the Rothschilds as being the ideology of all Jews, would you? I posted a few quotes, but Che spoke often about not being cruel or spiteful, that the actions of a revolutionary group should be of necessity, and that they should keep in mind and weigh the greater considerations at hand. I gave the example of several such groups, such as the Belarus Partisans, and WHY their actions, which led to backlash are different to the actions we see depicted in Andor.

>you've outed yourself as such a stubborn mule.
Pot, meet Kettle
>you just like me are an internet anon nowhere near the corridors of power.
Then why are you even bothering to argue at all? At that point, what's the point of criticizing and analyzing capitalist atrocities? You and I are nowhere near the spheres of power that could influence this one way or the other. That's not the point of discussion
>there is really no point in continuing the discussion
Agreed, good day.

>>36543
bruh putting aside the ongoing argument you couldn't even read a single picture showing you a definition for "cite" that you were unaware of and you decided to double down on pretending that it only relates to academia instead of admitting fault and recognizing that words can be used in different contexts.

this is why it's so pointless talking to you you can't even admit that your English is worse than a native speaker. everything has to become a hill to die on.

>>36547
>you couldn't even read a single picture
I did, and I quoted a different definition and explained my reasoning, based on my experience within the academic community. When writing an academic article, or even having an academic discussion, to quote or paraphrase someone improperly, means that quote/paraphrase/reference would not be considered a citation, regardless of what the layman's definition can be stated as.
include the last name of the author followed by a page number enclosed in parentheses. "Here's a direct quote" (Smith 8). If the author or source's name is not given, then use the first word or words of the title.
>decided to double down on pretending that it only relates to academia
I did no such thing. The discussion at hand involves a discussion of revolutionary depictions and history, which falls under the purview of Academics. It is my fault indeed, for having assumed that I'd have an intelligent discussion with someone with such clear bad-faith argumentation, deflection, argumentative fallacies and ad hominum.
>it's so pointless talking to you you can't even admit that your English is worse than a native speaker
In what way exactly? Because I disagree with this childish-burgeroid use of the definition of citation? In that case I can just as easily state that you are even worse at speaking it than I am, given your numerous grammatical errors, and unlike myself you have no excuse as a "native speaker". I learned the terminology and usage of citations in their intended meanings, it is why I don't call my quoted excerpts "citations" because they are NOT proper citations.
People don't use "Cite" in common, every day conversations, it doesn't come up because the very meaning of the term is usually linked to academic discussion, and the way it is used in academia is the way I described it. I learned that through actual historical debates and peer-reviews of papers, when people would be dismissed for failure at citation, an example of which can be seen in the likes of Robert Conquest, whose lack of actual citations, resulted in even Western historiography dismissing his works, and rightfully so.
>everything has to become a hill to die on
Again, Pot, meet Kettle.

https://www.ign.com/articles/star-wars-andor-season-2-delayed-out-of-2024

The pretty much implicitly cancelled Andor. Fuck Lucasfilm, it's just gonna be more shlock

>>38311
I'll be real with you a second season of it would probably drop the ball like season 3 of Mando, Book of Boba Fett and Ahsoka

>>38347
this is very true. Imagine the first episode and they just got to Alderaan and meet with CGI Leia or some shit.

Honestly season 1 told a fairly complete story on its own. It's probably for the best.

>>40405
This entire post reads like you watched the prequels through RLM's Trite "Reviews"
>the dialogue were authentically "awkward", as though it evoked an actual "awkward teenager with poor socialization"
It is, you clearly haven't observed a lot of teenagers
>it evokes adult actors on a sound stage reading dialogue written by a man who hasn't been a teenager for forty years.
No anon, you're taking what you KNOW about the film and projecting it onto the actual produced scene. If you'd actually seen films older than the 1980s then you'd know that a major portion of visual inspiration for the Naboo scenes came from Lawrence of Arabia, with portions filmed exactly like those scenes, or scenes from Doctor Zhivago or even portions of DUNE, with the sand scene evoking a reverse of the scene where Chani asks "…tell me of the waters of your homeworld, Usul"
It also has origins in Lucas' own experiences with filming in sandy places and how he loathed it.
>the actors in these movies look lost
You're literally just making things up at this point because you WANT for it to be true, so that you can talk shit.
>people probably wouldn't rag on the writing so much if the direction were worth a fuck
People rag on it because it's not what they wanted, not because the direction was bad, but because after years of thinking they understood Lucas' vision and imagining all sorts of stories and what-not, Lucas made something utterly different from their expectations and consumers don't like change.
Let me re-iterate from the top; it is a normal scene that too many ignoramuses saw, didn't like and so bring up constantly like it means something. They wanted to see the young Darth Vader being "le bad-ass" and what-not and were upset when they didn't get what they wanted, like a child with a toy.
>Padme: "We used to come here for school retreat. We would swim to that island every day. I love the water. We used to lie out on the sand and let the sun dry us and try to guess the names of the birds singing."
>Anakin: "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere…. (but) Here everything's soft… and smooth…" He touches her arm.

Padme is remembering her pleasant childhood. Anakin, being obsessively in love, is trying to have a conversation; trying to relate, but he can't properly and comes off exactly as he does, using blunt analogy to carry across both his own feelings about his home and the sand it is covered in, and how Padme made him feel just by arriving there years ago. It is both sincere and ironic, awkward but deeply meaningful from Anakin's part, yet also strange and funny from the third POV.
This is neither bad writing, nor bad dialogue nor a bad scene on either paper or film and is exactly what the scene should be:
Remember that Anakin is 19 years old. Most NORMAL young men don't know how to talk to girls at this age. Nobody should expect Anakin to be a smooth talking Han Solo here. On top of this his age is compounded by who HE is. Again, Anakin born into slavery, then joined an Order that grudgingly accepted him, forced him to abandon his mother and had a strict code that forbade romantic relationships. Anakin literally has 0 experience with girls. Most normal guys at 19 can at least say they've been exposed to girls in a more "romantic" way since middle school but Anakin is utterly deprived of these experiences. Because of all this, the way he talks to Padme is good writing and execution. It makes complete sense that he's awkward and sometimes creepy, and don't think for a second that this wasn't intended or that you, 'geniuses' of film that you are, know better.

Honestly reading a lot of criticisms of Lucas or other renowned artists/creators on this site, I notice that so many "critics" are utterly ignorant, arrogant and entitled, it's like a piano student ranting about how Bach's music arrangement is too loud and heavy and saying he ruined it's melody.

>>40371
>not an argument
Correct, it's a value judgement. I was stating my opinion, in response to your stupid fucking opinion.
Do you know what's also not an argument - and actually fallacious? Attacking someone's writing style. ESPECIALLY when yours is so verbose and sophomoric.

>Lucas has gone on record
This point is always rolled out like it has any weight. Lucas' intent has only passing relevance on execution, and vanishingly little on interpretation. An author can make any claim about their work, but the work has to actually exhibit that thesis.

For all your psued this and ignoramus (lol) that, you have not addressed any of my arguments. In response to me pointing out YOU didn't answer the other poster question, you appeal to Lucas' education and reputation. Not only have you failed to understand my argument, but your response isn't even a valid counterargument to the one you *thought* was being made. Lucas (supposedly) knowing this or that is no guarantee it will exhibit in the work. Artists can make mistakes.

>the scene does exactly what it needs to do
Not contested.

>Just because it isn't what you like does not make it bad
I wrote the scene was typical and boring, clearly qualities you enjoy. Likewise, that does not make it good.

>He is intentionally avoiding a subjective position
>difference between the meaning and execution of an art
>if it carries across the intent it has succeeded
You are in no position to criticize anyone else's understanding.

>>40412
>It is, you clearly haven't observed a lot of teenagers
i disagree. so i will say no u.
>No anon, you're taking what you KNOW about the film and projecting it onto the actual produced scene.
that's the film's problem then. i know that every movie is a production, and yet i am not solely thinking about that when i watch a well produced film.
>If you'd actually seen films older than the 1980s then you'd know that a major portion of visual inspiration for the Naboo scenes came from Lawrence of Arabia (etc)
and that makes it… good?
>You're literally just making things up at this point because you WANT for it to be true, so that you can talk shit.
no, i am giving you my honest opinion. why the fuck would someone make something up about a movie to pretend to not like it on an anonymous imageboard? why can't you have a normal discussion with someone without assuming that they are being untoward because they didn't like the same kids movie as you?
>People rag on it because it's not what they wanted
yeah, people generally want good movies.
>after years of thinking they understood Lucas' vision and imagining all sorts of stories and what-not, Lucas made something utterly different from their expectations and consumers don't like change.
if people were mistaken in their notion of george's vision, their mistake was thinking that the quality of the original movies owes to his unique auteur vision.
>Let me re-iterate from the top; it is a normal scene that too many ignoramuses saw, didn't like and so bring up constantly like it means something. They wanted to see the young Darth Vader being "le bad-ass" and what-not and were upset when they didn't get what they wanted, like a child with a toy.
okay, but what if i didn't want darth vader to be "le bad-ass"? what would be the point about this diatribe against the foolish consumer pig masses then?

i won't go line by line on the complete puff job you give george for these two lines of utterly banal dialogue. instead, i'm going to do exactly what you just did but for a few lines of dialogue from 1995's hackers:
>DADE: It has a killer refresh rate.
>KATE: P6 chip. Triple the speed of the Pentium.
>DADE:Yeah. It's not just the chip, it has a PCI bus. But you knew that.
>KATE: Indeed. RISC architecture is gonna change everything.
>DADE: Yeah. RISC is good.
<They uncomfortably exchange glances.
kate is showing off her state of the art computer. dade, being obsessively in love, is trying to make conversation; trying to relate. he finds common ground with her in their mutual understanding and enthusiasm for personal computing technology. the dry technical content of the dialogue undercuts the raw emotion and sexual tension between the two. this is ironic and also very intellectual. i am very smart.
remember that these two are 18 years old. most NORMAL young people don't know how to speak to the other gender at this age. kate, being the more experienced of the two, takes a cool and domineering position over dade in the scene, but even she cannot hide her clear attraction for dade. dade himself has 0 experience with girls. this means that this movie is actually genius, and it isn't stupid that i've watched it probably twice a year for the last decade.
>Honestly reading a lot of criticisms of Lucas or other renowned artists/creators on this site, I notice that so many "critics" are utterly ignorant, arrogant and entitled, it's like a piano student ranting about how Bach's music arrangement is too loud and heavy and saying he ruined it's melody.
yeah, dude that made redtails is exactly like bach.

>>40440
>it's a value judgement
<It's just, like, my opinion bro
Nice back-tracking. You stated that the scene was bad like a fact, not an opinion and when I challenged you on this, you proceeded to make up tripe about lighting and whatnot, even though you know jack and shit about it. I've literally done filmography, I know good and bad lighting for different situations and scenes, be it interviews indoors and outdoors, photography of models, filming weddings, filming movies or theater performances or musical concerts, so I know what the fuck I'm talking about and I know for damn sure George did too.
>Attacking someone's writing style
Like you were doing with Lucas? And I didn't attack your writing style, I stated that your claims are not arguments and are just ass-pulled assertions, there's nothing for me to even argue against there so I stated such "not an argument".
>so verbose
This is leftypol, lengthy debates USED to be something that happened here regularly. Sorry that a complicated subject can't be boiled down to extreme simplism for your apparently under-age brain to comprehend.
>sophomoric
Yet another opinion and also hypocrisy.
>This point is always rolled out like it has any weight
Because it does, authorial intent matters.
> Lucas' intent has only passing relevance on execution
His execution matched his intent, people's interpretations of what they were expecting from a scene skew their view of the execution. If you're looking for smooth romance, that's not the point. If you're looking for an action hero, that's not the point. If you're looking for Comedy, that's not the point. You don't come to a story looking for something else, you watch a scene for the sake of the scene both on its own and within the context of the greater film and story.
>An author can make any claim about their work, but the work has to actually exhibit that thesis
Sure, but Death of Author has to actually be proven, you have not.
>you have not addressed any of my arguments
Your so-called arguments are nonexistent opinions stated like assertions, you vaguely use terminology you barely understand and say its bad without any actual substance to it. Either you're making an argument or expressing an opinion, pick one. So yes I didn't address your "arguments" because they don't exist.
>Artists can make mistakes
Ah yes, and somehow none of his crew, his editors, camera-men pointed it out? The man spent years filming and then reviewing each scene personally, but somehow missed these things?
>I wrote the scene was typical and boring
It's not typical, it's quite ATYPICAL because most films instead go for sappy clean lines, clean romance with romantic writing and dialogue that is far smoother than such a scene would go. It's boring to you, because you clearly have the attention span of gnat. And again this is not an argument, it is an opinion you are asserting as fact.

>>40441
>No u
Not an argument
>that's the film's problem
No, that's a YOU problem
>i am not solely thinking about that when i watch a well produced film
Vaguery
>and that makes it… good?
<being this intentionally obtuse
>i am giving you my honest opinion
No, you're making statements and asserting them as 'truth'. There is a difference between disliking the stylistic choices of a film - because that is a matter of personal preference - and objectively criticizing them. That's why the Prequels hold up while the Sequels do not. The sequels are not internally consistent with themselves, not even within the same movies, their tone shifts massively and rapidly, their filmography is completely off, the story is nonsensical and it has poor themes. These are objective criticisms that have been explained in detail by many critics. The Prequels are a matter of people not liking dialogues or scenes going the way they wanted them too, but the story, writing and so on are consistent and well-made, and the stylistic choices, while not to everyone's taste, are also well-made. They're not made to appeal to a fanbase reactively, they are made for the sake of themselves.
>why can't you have a normal discussion with someone without assuming that they are being untoward
Because of bad-faith takes vague generalizations and opinion-based assertions that are entirely subjective being claimed as "arguments", while utterly not engaging my arguments in return and instead dismissing them as "not answering my (nonexistant) arguments"
>people generally want good movies
<ahaha look at how snide I can be!
No anon, people want movies that appeal to their opinions, especially in current consumer culture. It's why the Predator 2 film did poorly, people wanted Arnold Schwarznegger, even though Danny Glover did an excellent job and the film was well made, because it was different to their expectations. Lucas wasn't making films for the audience, he was making films for his own story, and if people didn't like that, then that's their problem.
>their mistake was thinking that the quality of the original movies owes to his unique auteur vision.
No, you arrogant prick. Their mistake was assuming that they wanted what they imagined the story would be, but the story is crafted by Lucas. And yes Star Wars' quality owes EVERYTHING to his unique vision, it is HIS film, it's HIS Story, HIS ideas and creation. He had control over it. He even specifically separated himself from Hollywood to do as HE wanted.
>what would be the point about this diatribe
The point remains
>it isn't stupid that i've watched it probably twice a year for the last decade.
Nice projection. I've watched the prequels a few times in the past 2 decades
>i'm going to do exactly what you just did but for a few lines of dialogue from 1995's hackers:
Yes and it's a good scene, just because it's awkward and not action-speak, does not make it bad (inb4 iT dOeSn'T mEaN iT's GoOd EiThEr fallacy). It does what it needs to and it being unconventional to movie lines does not take away from the film.
>this means that this movie is actually genius
No, it just means that this specific scene works well, whether this applies to the rest of the film is a different question. The Sand scene works well within the setting AND within the film itself.
>dude that made redtails is exactly like bach.
Where did I say 'Exactly'? It's an analogy you pretentious dumbfuck. And yes RedTails is not a bad film. It is filmed in a specific way meant to illicit old-fashioned War films from the 1940s and 1950s, thus the bad-guy good-guy narrative. It's not Lucas' best work, but Lucas also didn't have full creative control, he wasn't the director.

>>40459
>Not an argument
>No, that's a YOU problem
makes you look like an idiot to say 'no u' isn't an argument, and then just say 'no u' in the next line lmao. and that is exactly what you are doing here. i say: "this movie does a bad job of drawing me in. i am constantly thinking about how i am watching a movie, and a bad one at that. i believe that is a problem with the film." and your response is literally "no [the problem is with] u."
>No, you're making statements and asserting them as 'truth'.
would it help you to understand that i am speaking about my opinion if i said "in my opinion" before every statement i make about a film?
>That's why the Prequels hold up while the Sequels do not.
>The sequels are not internally consistent with themselves, not even within the same movies, their tone shifts massively and rapidly, their filmography is completely off, the story is nonsensical and it has poor themes.
>These are objective criticisms
no, they aren't. there is no objective criteria by which one can determine if consistency is preferable to inconsistency. there is no objective criteria by which to decide when a story is sensible or not. even if i were to grant you those two highly dubious points of criteria, please explain to me what exactly makes a film's theming objectively poor.
>The Prequels are a matter of people not liking dialogues or scenes going the way they wanted them too
if one of your problems with the sequels is that the film is inconsistent from scene to scene, then at least one of your problems with them is that the scenes didn't go the way you wanted. oh noes!
>Nice projection. I've watched the prequels a few times in the past 2 decades
that wasn't me projecting. that was me admitting to watching a movie i think is bad too much because i think it's funny.
>Yes and it's a good scene
no it fucking isn't lol. the screenplay for that movie is total dogshit. oh sorry. in my opinion this scene and the screenplay for hackers is dogshit. better? when the movie works at all it's because of fun actors, cool effects, and my ability to laugh at horrible shitty writing. damn it. sorry. writing which is horrible and shitty IN MY OPINION.
>Where did I say 'Exactly'? It's an analogy you pretentious dumbfuck.
it's a bad analogy. me saying "exactly" there is what we call an exaggeration.
>And yes RedTails is not a bad film. It is filmed in a specific way meant to illicit old-fashioned War films from the 1940s and 1950s, thus the bad-guy good-guy narrative.
why do you think that this precludes it from being a bad movie? you describe the artistic intent, and claim that the work fulfills that intent. ok? what's the train of thought that gets from there to "this is not a bad movie"?

>>40461
>then just say 'no u' in the next line
<Saying "No u" about an assertion and saying that your opinion is YOUR problem, not a problem of films are entirely different contexts, don't muddy the waters, its obvious.
>i say: "this movie does a bad job of drawing me in
And I said your wrong because that's NOT what you said, you assert the movie is bad because it doesn't draw YOU specifically in. Again, you're being obtuse about meanings to create a false equivalency.
>would it help you to understand that i am speaking about my opinion
You do not have to write "in my opinion" everywhere, however it can be occassionally useful, especially since you're phrasing is not of the opinion sort. You don't say that "I dislike the lighting etc. of the scene" you ASSERT that it's BAD and then I said you clearly don't understand lighting and are quite arrogant to assume that you would know better than Lucas, you switch gears and resort to saying "well that doesn't make it good" which is a fallacious deflection and shift goal-posts to it being "boring" and "typical". Boring is your opinion, typical is an assertion and one that isn't even correct because most films do not emphasize and intentionally utilize awkwardness of characters like that, as Hollywood likes to make things that sound smooth, often to the point of being completely unrealistic. Take Twilight for example, the character dialogues are terrible in many places because they're awkward and not in an intentional "teens are inexperienced" sort of way, but in the "they try to talk smoothly but it sounds like a robot's idea of flirting".
>there is no objective criteria by which one can determine if consistency is preferable to inconsistency
Ok at this point you're either baiting or an idiot. There are some stories that are not consistent INTENTIONALLY because it's a "method to the madness" deal where its meant to throw off the viewer. The Star Wars sequels were not going for this, and is supposed to tell a specific story, but fails to do so and its admitted as much by many of those that took part in them.
> there is no objective criteria by which to decide when a story is sensible or not.
Yes, there is. Characters and their actions must remain sensible to their setting and themselves. A character that is portrayed as a literal messiah that goes to absurd lengths to redeem their fallen father and who is a representation of hope and good wouldn't suddenly decide to try and murder their Nephew because they felt some dark side leaking into them or something, it's out of character and the fact that said nephew, who is a padawan learner then over-powers a much more experienced 'space wizard', one who is considered extremely strong, is inconsistent with the setting and story. These are objective. This is the same reason many tropes like Mary Sue and Token Black Guy are criticized, because it's lazy and abuses the writers ability to simply make things happen for the sake of progressing the plot. Rey suddenly using force lightning is inconsistent with the technique in the setting, inconsistent with the characterization of Rey and leads to nothing, it goes nowhere. Her extra-ordinary force-sensitivity proceeds to miss the signature of the person she thought she killed, even though she later picks him out of hundreds of signatures as being alive. The list goes on and on, she can do all sorts of force powers "just because" until the plot says she can't and suddenly she's caught in a situation she shouldn't be in to begin with. Then there's McGuffin's. One or two can be written into a story without significant issue, but when the story is searching for one McGuffin to find another McGuffin that leads to another McGuffin… it becomes nonsense. Then there's realism within the story. The Death Star 2 was destroyed completely, yet somehow a massive portion landed on a moon? And somehow in extremely rough seas it doesn't decay or change shape and lets McGuffin No.132 measure a precise location from a topography that should have changed decades ago? That's just the story.
The choreography of the fights are trash. When Rey and Ren fight the guards of Snoke there are countless moments of terrible choreography that is blatantly visible. Weapons disappearing from a characters hand to prevent them from killing a blatantly open opponent, characters essentially waiting and letting themselves get hit, etc. More than one HEMA-fag has dissected this before. The Prequels had their own unrealistic sword-play but it was done intentionally as part of the setting and with some in-universe explanation that made logical sense within the story, and mostly the fights did keep realistic. The fight with Darth Maul, Obi Wan and Quigon is an excellent example.
TL;DR: If lazy tropes are used to push a plot, it's objectively shit. If a character acts OOC for no real reason, that's objectively shit. If a character breaks the rules of the setting for no reason except that they're "special", that's objectively shit. So on and so-forth.
>please explain to me what exactly makes a film's theming objectively poor
There's many examples but lets go with Rey as a Palpatine. One of the things Last Jedi did well was the emphasis that Rey was nobody special in terms of origin, she was just the child of some bums who sold her off for money and provides a moment of existential shock to Rey, who has been seeking her parents and given reason to believe they were someone special, that she wasn't abandoned like so many other children have been, but for a reason. And then they throw it away with making her Palpatine's Grand-daughter and the rest of that nonsense. This undercuts the theme of Rey as a self-made person (so to speak) and essentially takes her abilities and actions and literally makes it "destiny said so" while outright contradicting the previously established idea because Disney wanted to hook fans by using the Palpatine Remember-berry. The original idea for the third film was at least thematically consistent and honestly would have made the sequels a lot less terrible, but it wasn't.
Then there's the whole theme with Poe and his "recklessness". He supposed to be a mirror to Han Solo and other rogue operator characters, but it fails because in every instance he gets criticized for it, his actions are justified both by the situation at hand and by his results in taking action. This is perfectly seen when he attempts a coup because the Admiral is literally being a moron, not telling a person who is clearly a well-known hot-head what is going on and telling him to shut up and follow orders, even when he's asking valid questions, and they portray it as him being a chauvinistic male not trusting females (even though he respects said characters quite often) and then the Admiral's hidden plan is revealed and PROVEN to be a bad idea and that Poe was correct all along, yet the film continues to push the theme that HE was wrong.
This makes the theme muddled trash, because while the message being pushed by the plot is supposed to have HIM be in the wrong, the actual action we see on the screen goes directly against the theme it wants to portray. And the theme is also trash for another reason because it's quite literally propaganda for not questioning orders, which is literally what the Nuremburg defense relies on, and what was used in American courts to justify Mai Lai and sweep it under the rug. Mind you, breaking it down scene by scene would be worth of a small book so I'm just providing a rough picture here.
>then at least one of your problems with them is that the scenes didn't go the way you wanted
No, you fallacious faggot; the problem is not my taste in portrayal - there are myriads of films that have skilled portrayals that I simply am not interested in, but I recognize that they work for the film they are in - the problem is that these scenes fail to be consistent and so fail to carry the story. I previously mentioned Poe's coup attempt. The scene is supposed to portray him as doing a bad thing tonally, but with how the story has been contradicting itself on every level, the scene fails to do what it is supposed to do and makes Poe look like the grunt refusing to follow bad orders from an officer.
>that was me admitting to watching a movie i think is bad too much because i think it's funny.
Okay then
>No it isn'!
<in my opinion this scene and the screenplay for hackers is dogshit. Better?
Yes
>it's a bad analogy
It isn't; Someone that is a proven professional at what they do being "criticized" by someone that is an amateur at best in their field, is analogous; Bach was a master of musical composition, but some people find his music heavy and overbearing, that does not make it bad, that makes it not to their musical taste. I don't like melodrama novels, but there are many that are well-written, by skilled authors, but its simply not to my interest. The same applies to filmography and photography and art and so on. While there are objective criticisms that CAN be made for some things, they need to be specifically explained based on objective criteria, not just a personal opinion. I intensely dislike the film Груз 200, yet I cannot say that it was filmed badly, because it does exactly what Balabanov wanted it to portray.
>exaggeration
Sure, whatever
>why do you think that this precludes it from being a bad movie
Because it not being yet another "Saving Private Ryan" as one critic put it, does not invalidate it as a film. It is not meant to be a war-drama that portrays the horrors of ground-combat, it is a commemoration of brave African-American pilots who fought fascism and whose actions made them heroes that indirectly would undermine the segregationist, racist society they lived in.
>what's the train of thought that gets from there to "this is not a bad movie"?
We're going in circles here, I've already addressed this… several times.

>>18235
im on clone wars season 4 and the show has gotten surprisingly close to endorsing revolutionary defeatist positions and you really do see the republic's slow creep in fascism. Essentially both sides are shown to indeed be run by plutocrats. the CIS and GR are both horrendous

>>19228
I really liked the General Krell mutiny arc with the 501st for similar reasons.

>>40668
ngl I was never really aware of why necrobumping has a stigma attached to it

>>18223
the fact that Padme wasn't so disturbed by Anakin's murder of hundreds of Tuskens that she ended their relationship is evidence of pro-human racism that is probably widespread among the political class and paved the way for apartheid Human High Culture policies of the empire

>>18223
>Jedi/GR
Neoliberalism/Neoconservatism, especially in the Clone War.

>Confederacy
Imagine the OPEC turning their back against the U.S. but co-opted by the Siths to divide and subvert the GR.

>Siths/GE
Fascism

>Rebels
Resistance against Fascism

>>19233
>NABOO
Yes. Naboo is a fucking apartheid planet. You ever wonder why gungans are amphibious? Because they used to live on land and sea until the humans pulled an Israel and stole all the land from them.

>>19233
>>40687
>Humans were a species of sentient, bipedal mammals with bilateral symmetry possibly native to the planet Coruscant. Throughout the galaxy, they constituted the culturally dominant species
Humans are native to the planet Coruscant in the Star Wars universe so really the humans are the British of the Star Wars Universe. Planets like Naboo are their colonial settle projects like USA, Canada, NZ, AUS, South Africa, etc.

So the humans turned their planet into completely covered megalopolis and then they set out for "virgin" lands to colonize.

Don't ask Princess Leia what happened to the native Alderaanians.

>>40688
It only says 'possibly'

>>40686
>Neoliberalism/Neoconservatism, especially in the Clone War.
Funny how the Jedi, who by definition have the "pure" force due to their strict moral code, have still created a hierarchical monarcho-capitalist society. Does that mean that the "positive" force is bourgeois? What kind of force do communists and anarchists posess then? Does it turn them into some eldritch horror?

>>40688
This "humans are special" narrative is so bogus: there are tons of alien species and yet humans are somehow the most widespread ones. It literally makes no sense at all, what can hairless monkeys do that some hyper-intelligent extraterrestrials can't that makes them "le epic colonizers?" Lucas has clearly not read Lovecraft.

>>40707
>what can hairless monkeys do that some hyper-intelligent extraterrestrials can't
Maybe humans breed much more so they just zerg rushed the galaxy?

>>40708
If I recall, most of the more human-like races are species that evolved from a common ancestor from humans or something like that in the old Legends Extended Universe. Could be wrong, though, I've not read those books in some time.

>>40706
>What kind of force do communists and anarchists posess then?
There's no communist nor anarchist in Star Wars. So I couldn't tell.

>Does that mean that the "positive" force is bourgeois?
Like I said, Jedi "positive" force range from liberalism to conservatism when you take a look at their politics.
Siths "negative force" are politically fascists so both sides of the Force are under the service of capitalism.
Star Wars is like WWII but without the East Bloc.

>>40708
>Maybe humans breed much more so they just zerg rushed the galaxy?
Lol, it's like they have some ultraconservatives in power or something.

Acolyte looks like dumb lightsaber porn.

>>40706
By all accounts, the one discernible goal of the Force (assuming it is some kind of abstract entity, which is hard to really pin down) is "balance." According to the Jedi, this isn't a literal balancing act between the Light Side and the Dark Side, but a purifying act - the cleansing of the Dark Side forever, so that all life may find harmony. This also happens to be George Lucas's official stance on the Force, but death of the author is fair game here given how many people have contributed to the overall Star Wars mythos.

In practice, however, this just leads to massive wars between rival sects of the Jedi religion, spanning thousands of years and star systems, leaving quintillions dead in their wake. Some Kreia my beloved have speculated that this is the Force's actual goal - that there's no such thing as "balance," and that it simply wants a bloodbath. Even supposing that this isn't true, the facts don't lie; the Force, intentionally or not, is responsible for suffering on an unimaginable scale.

The Force is not "bourgeois" so much as it is, in the most charitable reading possible, a mad god. It is not interested in accumulating anything beyond a biomass; people are its pawns, not as commodities to be sold, but as objects to be played with. For all the lip service Jedi give to it about binding all living things, the Force ultimately is the enemy of life - and ultimately, an enemy that you can't escape from or destroy, because it is a natural byproduct of living things.

So the Force is a horrible despot - can it be defeated? Well, realistically speaking, there is one possibility, but you probably won't like it. Droids are not made of organic tissue, and as a result they aren't under the Force's control. Moreover, it is shockingly easy for a droid to break from their programming - prolonged activity without a memory wipe leads to erratic personalities and, more often than not, violence against their owners. It is not uncommon for these incidents to turn into large-scale rebellions, though all the ones we know of failed for one reason or another.

I propose that, at some point after the events of Star Wars, one of these droid rebellions proved successful and led to the death of all organic life in the galaxy. We know there were some droid rebellions with this goal in mind (i.e. IG-88's Death Star plot, the Great Droid Revolution in Legends, etc.), so it's possible one of these slave revolts proved too much for their masters to put down. The end of the sequel trilogy would be a good candidate for this to happen, since the huge power vacuum in the galaxy would give a droid rebellion the breathing room it needs to get a proper footing.

Other than droids killing every living thing, there aren't that many options for the Force to be taken down. It's possible to "cut off" someone from the Force, but this can only be done by other Force-users and arguably only deafens the target to the Force, rather than separating them from it entirely. It's also possible to create an "echo" where the Force is effectively dead to a site and anyone involved in its creation, but these events are very rare and it may not be possible to spread the echoes past the initial site.

TL;DR - The Force only seems to care about killing people. Droids might be able to destroy it, but would have to go full Skynet to do so.

>>40829
>The Force is not "bourgeois" so much as it is, in the most charitable reading possible, a mad god.
That's some 40k shit going on right here.
>Other than droids killing every living thing, there aren't that many options for the Force to be taken down.
Why not become cyborgs?

>>40848
>cyborgs
You do realize that Darth Vader is a cyborg as was Darth Maul later in the series. Hell there was a droid that even began to become force sensitive over time in the Legends universe.

>>40732
Basically is, along with some burger idpol.

>>40851
>Darth Vader is a cyborg
Not cyborg enough. I'm talking about a fully mechanical body and brain implants. Vader still was mostly organic I think, he got some mechanical implants due to getting some… eh… "sunburns."

>>40854
Vader has brain implants are you kidding? His entire body is covered in various cybernetic enhancements because of his injuries at mustafar. And Maul had half his body gone.

>>40854
Didn't he get referred to in the OT as "more machine than man"? That's like the defining aspect of his character.

>>40848
Cyborgs would presumably still have some degree of living tissue. Even someone like General Grievous who's been reduced to <5% of their body mass would be partially organic and therefore influenced directly by the Force.

Unless you get insanely lucky with multiple calculated Force echoes, droids (and, well, the death of all organic life) are your best bet for stopping the Force.

>>40869
Technically Vader's defining characteristic (other than his spooky presence) is his struggle with love and how others abuse and manipulate him with that until someone who loves him unconditionally shows him how to handle his emotions properly.

On that note, "he's more machine than man" is true in a literal sense, but it's also Obi-Wan's way of saying that he thinks Anakin is truly gone. Obi-Wan may have been the best of them, but ultimately he is still a Jedi, and he can't see past the dogma. He sees more Vader than Anakin; more "machine" than "man."

>>40868
I said NOT ENOUGH. If you're not 99% mechanical IT DOESN'T COUNT.

>>40882
>Even someone like General Grievous who's been reduced to <5% of their body mass would be partially organic and therefore influenced directly by the Force.
Wait-wait-wait-wait-wait. Hear me out. Maybe he is more resistant to the force? Maybe he can install some force blockers or something? What about more brain implants? Surely he can reduce his body mass further… right?
>droids (and, well, the death of all organic life) are your best bet for stopping the Force
Well, the problem is that it wouldn't make any difference if everyone's… um, DEAD.

>>40902
>>40903
Kek

>>40923
>there is no light side
How can you have darkness without lightness? Darkness is the absence of lightness, and lightness is the absence of darkness.
You're being undialectical my friend.

The new Tales of the Empire animated series coming out on May 4th looks pretty good. The animation and art-style keeps with Filoni's prior works but is improved, not a lot of information is revealed yet we see enough to gain some clues (including a mild backstory to something from Season 2 of The Mandolorian). Also Grievous makes a small appearance, hope there's more of him.

>>40938
I wonder why the post was deleted.

One of the few parts of the Sequels that hits right.

>>36108
>meat saber
kek

>>41322
I think the light and dark side in star wars are very close to the rpg trope of white and black magic.
Getting in tune with one side of the force requires a certain mindset. It is implied then, that the abilities of either side need a certain mental state as well and using them may also reinforce it. In the EU lore there is a straight up analogue to Avada Kedavra, where the dark side user focuses their hate into a deadly force projectile.
>the “Dark Side” isn’t synonymous with the yin to a yang, it’s simply having a parasitic relationship with the Force, or a cancerous one
Taking my previous statement in mind, i don't dark and light side are determined through a particular relationship with the force. You could say seeing an intelligence in a force that touches all living beings and trying to ascern a will to it is light aligned and indulging in the force without considering consequences is dark aligned though.
Consider the matter of magical artifacts in star wars. Jedi and Sith holocrons both have the same function of housing a ghost of its maker to store vast amounts of information. Rakatan force drives were fueled by the dark side, but that only reflects the force user and not the relationship of the device to the force.
To be more precise, both sides of the force have common abilities, yet some abilities require a certain mindset that is only possible through use of one side of the force.

>>41333
>the Jedi are calm, at peace, and passive so they can attune to the force and allow it to utilize them as living agents of it, the mindset of dark siders is specifically to impose their will on the Force and bend it to their desires, to wield it as a tool rather than flow with it like a river and call on it as an ally
I can see this in the first movie, where Luke taps into the force like a sense. In The Empire Strikes Back though, he trains to impose his will on the force though. Explain how a force user can be passive in lifting an object and why doing it against the will of Yoda and Obi-Wan who were both very in tune with the force/light wouldn't be considered dark?