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Lord of the Rings/ Tolkien’s Legendarium Anonymous Comrade 10/25/2020 (Sun) 22:18:17 No. 18068
Noticed a lot people talking about Tolkien’s works and philosophy. So, I created a thread specifically dedicated for that and other things related to it, like the movies and games.
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The fact that Nazis are into Tolkien’s works has always surprised me. I can understand at a surface level that Tolkien based his works off Norse/Anglo-Saxon culture. For example, the Rohirrim are just straight copied from Anglo-Saxon Culture, hell they even speak Old English. But excluding that, Tolkien was hard-core Catholic and he himself described the Lord of the Rings as a Catholic work “unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision”(Letters of J.R.R Tolkien, letter 142). Secondly, The Nazi’s asked Tolkien about his “Aryan” heritage. He wrote back to them saying that his family was German, and Tolkien said that their real reason for asking him about his heritage is to see if was Jewish. Which he replied he was not, but he did call them “gifted people” (letter 30). Finally, Tolkien stated his huge dislike of Adolf Hitler “I have in this War a burning private grudge against that ruddy little ignoramus Adolf Hitler. Ruining, perverting, misapplying, and making forever accursed, that noble northern spirit, a supreme contribution to Europe, which I have ever loved, and tried to present in its true light.” (letter 45)
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Nice thread Since Tolkien and Lord of the Rings are pretty good stuff I'm going to link Tolkien posts from the Fantasy thread The Last Ringbearer >>3331 Tolkien's politics and 'racism' in his story and his life >>8917 >>8946 >>17401 >>17407 Elf Politics >>5928 >>17932
>>18068 Are there any communists in lotr?
Could any solid LotR lore experts redpill me on who the hell Ghan-buri-Ghan was? When I read the third book, his appearance seemed like a total non sequitur. Is there any lore to him, or why is he even in the story in the first place?
>>18130 >Ghân-buri-Ghân Of him specifically, nothing besides what is given in the book. But he was part of the Drúedain, who are related to men. They are described as being shorter and fatter than regular men, and overall have primitive and wild culture and appearance. They are good natured, and have always fought on the side of good. Unfortunately they have been persecuted by wicked or ignorant men, who see them as evil based on their appearance. Because of this persecution they are very secretive and keep to themselves and a couple of stories have shown them to use magic, that ordinary have no knowledge of. http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Dr%C3%BAedain#cite_note-TD-1 One theory about them that I find interesting in that they could be men who weren't corrupted by discord caused by Melkor during the Ainulindalë (The Music of the Ainur)
>>18129 It's a fairly medieval setting so I don't think so. The hobbits are bourgs, the Humans are feudal, the Goblins are high-way robbers and normal elves are a stagnant group of elites while Wood Elves are semi-tribalistic anprims. The dragons are artificial spirits given chimeric forms and the Orcs are dominated by strength for leadership.
>>18132 Neanderthal parallel? Pretty forward thinking of Tolkien if so, and an interesting way to work them into the mythology.
>>18139 >The hobbits are bourgs Nah they're more like kulaks
>>18144 I doubt it. It is more likely it is just a coincide.
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>>18172 I mean, knowledge of them had proliferated quite a bit by that point, and Wells even wrote a story of them as 'barbarous beasts' by 1911. Which does fit in well with the typical views held by Tolkien's 'ignorant men;' granted, the idea that Neanderthals were effectively humans in terms of their brainpower is a relatively modern understanding, so perhaps he really did just get lucky in his depiction of related but slightly different from men primitive humans.
I prefer the Hobbit story over LOTR, it lacks the whole "good vs evil" army shit and is an interesting adventure of fantasy
>>18187 There both fun reads I find. But I do prefer the Lord of the Rings as I writing and world building to be better.
>>18129 Maybe dwarves. Their society somewhat resembles Juche (Longbeard dynasty look like Kim dynasty). Industrial cooperatives, single working-class mostly, brotherhood and not so racist to other races (except orcs and goblins).
>>18198 (me) Well one anon already said that >>3290
the amazon series is going to suck ass
>>18205 Isn't it supposed take place in the 2nd age? If so that's about 3 and half millennia time period to cover.
>>18072 >Racism Supposedly Tolkien stated that one of his regrets was that he didn't give the Orcs much sympathy and that they were treated like slaves that often didn't get a choice rather being evil. I've always found some of the most interesting parts of the Lord of the Rings is when the orcs get to talk and share some of their thoughts, like when merry and Pippen are overhearing the three different groups of orcs bickering (Urak-hai from Isengard, Black Uruks from mordor and the smaller orcs from the Mines of Moria), when Sam overhears Gorebag and Shagrat, or in gorgoroth when Sam and frodo overhear the large soldier and the tracker.... It makes the orcs more than mindless drones and I think it would have been cool to hear a lot more of that and for them to be "humanized" a bit more... Like when Gorbag refers to frodo being left for dead as a "typical elf trick", it implies they have a morality that looks down upon leaving a wounded comrade
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If you're after a scholarly defense of Tolkien from the progressive/left I really love this book from Patrick Curry. >>18211 yes was thinking the same thing recently, when going back over the part where they are talking about Shelob. Those orcs are not mere animals, but are fully fleshed people with thoughts and feelings I'm a huge tolkien nerd, but it's one of the faults with the legendarium that he didn't really give as much depth of thought to the Orcs.
>>18215 Honestly Orcs are quite well expanded upon in World of Warcraft, as I've stated before in the Fantasy thread. Something I've read in a rather amusing crossover fanfic of Middle Earth and Naruto by Neon Zangetsu expands on this a bit by having Orc mentalities explained by a rule of strength and by instinct due to how harsh their lives are in general, there is no time to be picky about what you eat or asking questions before attacking because it could cost them their lives.
>>18205 Apparently it might have sex and tiddies in it????!!? Everyone's gotta be fucking GOT now I guess jesus christ. https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2020/10/06/108573-sex-sensibility-amazons-nude-take-on-tolkien/ https://filmdaily.co/news/lotr-sex-scenes/ and a shit article too: https://thefederalist.com/2020/10/09/the-left-cant-stand-tolkiens-christian-influenced-lord-of-the-rings-so-amazon-is-giving-it-a-game-of-thrones-makeover/ And I'm no prude, but this is not the place for that shit, jesus fucking christ it's TOLKIEN, TOLKIEN W H Y
>>18217 >>18205 Wait there actually IS a Netflix series?! I thought that was just a joke!
Gimli destroys the ring https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUrJdsN_-B0 I wish this happened TBH
>>18219 >Netflix you mean Amazon
>>18217 >sex and tiddies The weirdest Tolkien ever got with sex is the Túrin Turambar having incestuous relationship with his sister Nienor Níniel, neither of which were aware of. And upon finding out both ended their lives.
>>18222 The last part is honestly unreasonable, TBH.
>>18217 Can't wait for the gay sex between Frodo and Sam and the accusations of homophobia if you don't think they were gay all along.
>>18225 If only you knew.
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>>18068 >>18072 >>18139 >>18144 >>18164 >>18176 >>18198 >>18211 >>18215 Thought I should place this quote here for future reference.
>>18228 I did post about that, though thanks for the complete quote m8.
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Posts related from the Dindu Nuffin thread, mostly regarding Orcs and their 'evilness' >>18003 >>17996 >>18021 >>18027 >>18028
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>>18227 >jannies spoilering something that's just erotic and not even explicit You wouldn't do this if it was a straight couple, unironically smdh.
>>18248 Ironically they still have NO General Rules or Board rules put up despite someone already creating some basic rules for /hobby/ for the mods to put up and recently rules for the site >>>/gulag/7986
I always wondered what Smaug would do if he had the One Ring. Gandalf states: “the dragon, Sauron might use with terrible effects"- The Lord of the Rings - Appendices (Durin’s Folk) https://archive.is/a5K1z
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Tolkien seems to both love and hate Shakespeare Pic 1 "Tolkien loved this line in Shakespeare: 'Macbeth shall never vanquished be until Great Birnam Wood to high Dunsinane Hill shall come against him.' He loved the thought of marching trees. However, Shakespeare had other ideas. He just makes an army cut down tree branches so they look like a marching wood." "Tolkien thought this was rubbish and invented Ents. And the march of the Huorns on the orcs at Helm’s Deep." _"The prophecy about who would kill the witch-king parallels the prophecy about who could kill Macbeth – “No living man can kill me,” sneers the witch-king, while Macbeth “cannot be slain by man of woman born.” But Macbeth dies due to a loophole in his prophecy – apparently a man born by C-section is not born of a woman (No, I don’t get this either). Tolkien thought that was lame, and made his witch-king die at the hands of a woman."_ (And a hobbit, a man but not of the race of men).
>>18248 OP here I'd spoiled it my self.
>>18216 >Something I've read in a rather amusing crossover fanfic of Middle Earth and Naruto by Neon Zangetsu expands on this a bit by having Orc mentalities explained by a rule of strength and by instinct due to how harsh their lives are in general, there is no time to be picky about what you eat or asking questions before attacking because it could cost them their lives. That actually makes a lot of sense. Much better than it just being their nature.
Sauron's view on Gandalf and the rest of the Istari. If he thought about the Istari, especially Saruman and Gandalf, he imagined them as emissaries from the Valar, seeking to establish their lost power again and 'colonize' Middle-earth, as a mere effort of defeated imperialists (without knowledge or sanction of Eru). His cynicism, which (sincerely) regarded the motives of Manwe as precisely the same as his own, seemed fully justified in Saruman. Gandalf he did not understand. But certainly he had already become evil, and therefore stupid, enough to imagine that his different behaviour was due simply to weaker intelligence and lack of firm masterful purpose. He was only a rather cleverer Radagast - cleverer, because it is more profitable (more productive of power) to become absorbed in the study of people than of animals. History of Middle Earth, Volume X "Morgoth's Ring", Chapter 5 Myths transformed.
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Fëanor is the real bad guy of the Silmarillion. If it was not for him the forces of elves, men and dwarves would have not been severely weaken to the point that would have needed to call on the Valar.
I find it somewhat amusing that this thread is just solemn discussion rather than the typical LOTR meme-posting that used to be done.
>>18250 he'd just get more gold dragons are fiending for that gold high
A liberal homosexual feminist Protestant was teaching a class on George R.R. Martin, known hack ”Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Gurm and accept that Planetos is the greatest fantasy setting of all time even greater than Arda!” At this moment, a brave, patriotic, British WW1 veteran who had served 1500 tours of duty on the Somme and understood the necessity of war and fully supported all decisions made by Butcher Haig stood up. ”What are the linguistic differences among the peoples of Westeros?” The arrogant proddie smirked quite schismatically and smugly replied “There is the Old Tongue and the Common Tongue, you stupid warmonger” ”Wrong. There should be hundreds of dialects. If the Wall is 8000 years old as you say, how can the Wildlings and Northmen understand one another?” The HBO shill was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of A World of Ice and Fire. He stormed out of the room crying those redditor crocodile tears. The same tears redditors (who today live in such luxury most can afford sex changes) cried when Missandei was beheaded. There is no doubt that at this point our sola scriptura-faggot wished he had pulled himself up by his bootstraps and become more than a garbage pulp fiction fan. He wished so much he could die a glorious death in battle, but he had sworn to always be a draft dodger! The students applauded and became Tolkien fans that day and accepted the Pope as their Lord and Master. A giant eagle named “Thorondor” flew into the room and perched atop the flag of Gondor and shed a tear on the White Tree. Beowulf was read in the original Old English several times, and Eru Ilúvatar himself showed up and enacted Aragorn's flat rate tax policy across the universe. The Lutheran was fired the next day and sunset found him squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up he was shitting brown water.
>>18901 Top tier shitpost copy-pasta
>>19218 Haven't read it, but looks intriguing.
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>>18901 Easily one of the best versions of this pasta, well done.
>>18584 The Valars were pieces of shit. If they were more proactive nothing of this shit would've happened. If they cared about humans as much as they cared about Elves, the humans wouldn't be fully exposed to the wiles of Morgoth, convincing them that the world is ruled by a cruel god.
>>19246 Pretty sure that the Valar, as spirits with Iluvatar wrote the entire history of Middle Earth in song and the parts sang by Melkor became all the suffering and death and chaos he and Sauron would bring. In light of that there arguably wasn’t anything the Valar could do as it was all predetermined anyway. Plus Morgpth encountered the elves and men before the other Valar had, hence how he corrupted some each time.
>>18901 >Eru Ilúvatar himself showed up and enacted Aragorn's flat rate tax policy across the universe.
>>19246 To be fair, the Valar were probably freaked out about killing large numbers of "fragile" men in the upheaval. They didn't have to worry about that when they went to drag Morgoth out of Utumno since neither elves or men were born yet.
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The older I get and the more I learn the clearer it becomes to me why Chronicles of Narnia would have driven Tolkien completely insane; The Santa part almost ruined their friendship. >Tolkien: you can’t just patch random things together because you like them, everything has to fit together in a dense textural weave of reasonable causes and effects <Lewis: ...and then the witch from the other dimension turns the fox to stone for having a contraband tea party...
>>18164 wrong, they are super bourg
>>20214 >super bourg Reallly? How so? They don't ngage in imperialism or have any large capitalist industries, the closest you'll get to bourgie stuff is the general Middle Earth tendency to obsess over ancestry and inherited possessions.


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