No.1858
what the fuck is this series about, picard coming back as like an 80 year old guy to captain a starship again?
this is as embaressing as making Sylvester stallone do another rocky at 65.
No.1860
Dude I have been wanting to get into startreck forever, but, I don't know were to start. Can anyone help me out? I wanted to start with the first actual rendition of the show but I don't even know what it is called to look it up.
Can anyone help me?
No.1862
>>1860the original show is called "TOS" or "The original series" on torrent sites
just type star trek tos
its a bit cheesy but a good background.
I liked the next generation better personally. if you cant into TOS then watch star trek: the next generation. it was made in the 80s/early 90s and is probably the best series IMO. and it will prepare you for picard.
see:
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls022123905/ No.1863
>>1860I don't suggest you start with the original Star Trek, it's really low budget and the captain is a womanizing caricature TBH. Watch Next Generation and Voyager.
Link (backtrack to the index of seasons and episodes):
https://watch-series.cx/episode/star-trek-the-next-generation-season-6-episode-12/>>1857Like
>>1858 said it sounds pretty stupid. Picard is a great captain but it isn't worth bringing back a decrepit old man to struggle into a nostalgia series like this.
I personally found Seth McFarlane's The Orville to be a much better modern "Star-Trek" It's easy to watch on watch-series has relatively good humor and interesting takes as well as good special effects. It was a breath of fresh air after STD.
>>1859>STDEven JewJew Abrams' movies were better than STD (what an appropriate abbreviation).
No.1864
>STD
For those who don't know what that stands for (other than Sexually Transmitted Disease) its the Abbreviation for Star Trek Discovery, which aired from 2017-now.
Why is it trash? Because unlike the other Star Treks which focused on a main cast of crew-members to whom we could grow to love or hate and who interacted normally, STD instead has 1 main character that encapsulates liberal idpol; african-american girl who-don't-need-no-man. Her behavior in the pilot alone is nauseatingly irresponsible and idiotic, which in the context of her backstory is illogical.
They only talk about emotions (yet do't really adequately show them or have it affect things other than idiotic behaviour). The dialogues are badly written. There’s no fun and no sense of adventure or exploration in the show.
Gays, lesbians, muh stoopid white men, muh stoopid protocols, muh lesbian OCs. Its like a bad Mary Sue fanfiction. In the prior series lesbians, gays, people of different races were integrated without question, because it was the future and such things were irrelevant to people as a whole, when self-betterment and space DISCOVERY was more important.
Oh and they praise Elon Musk and capitalism (when prior shows intentionally went against this).
I'd go on but frankly I'm tired and this is more of a rant than a proper review. I might do a arc-by arc review of the show as future reference for newfags.
No.1868
>>1864>Oh and they praise Elon Musk and capitalismto be fair, that was in the dark mirror universe
No.1870
>>1860>Dude I have been wanting to get into startreck forever, but, I don't know were to start. Can anyone help me out?Yes. First off, the abbreviations.
Star Trek: The Original Series
>TOSCaptain Kirk, original show
Star Trek: The Animated Series
>TASCaptain Kirk, cartoon rendition of TOS
<not actually canon (decanonised)
Movies: I, II, III, IV, V and VI (cast of TOS, Kirk, Spock, etc.)
Star Trek: The Next Generation
>TNGCaptain Picard, first live action show after TOS
Movies: VII, VIII, IX, X (cast of TNG, Picard, Riker, etc.)
Star Trek: Deep Space 9
>DS9Captain Sisko, starts during penultimate season of TNG
Star Trek: Voyager
>VOYCaptain Janeway, starts during last season of DS9
Star Trek: Enterprise
>ENTCaptain Archer, prequel filmed long after VOY was done
Movies: 3 JJ Abrams Trek movies (not canon) The third one feels the most "trek". They're not bad sci-fi adventure/action movies, they're terrible Star Trek movies.
Star Trek: Discovery
>STDCaptain uhh… Georgia? And then the guy. But captains don't matter, it's all about Michael.
Suggested order of watching:
TNG - DS9 - VOY - ENT - TOS
>alternative: watch TOS after VOY, before ENTThe TNG movies you can watch after you've seen DS9, and the TOS movies you can watch after you see TOS. You can also watch TAS for fun. STD is not mandatory because it is not canon, or part of the prime universe. Prime universe is the main storyline of the universe. Events of TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT (as well as the ten TNG+TOS movies) all take place in the same universe and events are often referenced in the shows.
First season of TNG is gonna be a bit cringe, but they were just figuring it out. It gets better from half-way into the season then just continues improving. Watch an episode or two of TOS before TNG so that you can appreciate how different it is.
Movies are very different from the show. The TNG movies are dumbed down action films for a mass audience, but it's cool seeing Picard kicking ass while espousing communist ideals (First Contact). Just don't expect too much from the movies.
TOS movies range from decent to actually pretty good, except one. I'll let you find out which one, it's funny because it's spectacularly bad.
To recap:
<prime universe
>canonENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, movies I - X
>non-canonTAS
<non-prime universe
3 JJ Abrams movies, STD
No.1871
>>1859That’s like saying herpes is better than aids. It’s true, but does it matter in anyway?
No.1872
>>1870>cartoon rendition of TOS<not actually canon (decanonised)
fucking sucks TBH., no we'll never see M'ress
get into interspecies relations No.1877
>>1860Okay so I'm not a Star Trek expert but a slightly-more-than-casual fan. Casual+ maybe.
The way I got into it was starting with TNG (I think this is common) and just choosing the episodes that sounded fun. For me, this meant I watched my first Q episode and then decided to skip around and watch the episodes that had "Q" in the description. TNG doesn't really require continuity to enjoy so I would recommend you just pick the episodes that sound interesting to you and go from there.
I watched Voyager next. Hated the first couple seasons so I just skipped to the third by chance, watched to the end, and then rewatched from the start (I wouldn't recommend this – most people say it's among the weakest although I enjoyed it).
I watched DS9 years later. Really wish I had done it sooner. DS9 is much more like a modern-day HQ TV series – huge amount of continuity and overarching story so don't skip around on this one or expect to be able to casually watch while you do something else.
If you're just looking for a way to get into the series without a big commitment, do the TNG thing I mentioned above. You don't really need to pay super close attention and there are enough campy/fun episodes that you can start to learn about the universe without a big commitment.
But if you're looking for a solid series with real story, continuity, narrative etc then go straight for DS9.
Not sure if this is helpful or just me blogposting. Either way I hope you have fun and enjoy it! The universe is definitely worth getting into.
No.1878
Y'all what the fuck is this Picard show? I haven't watched anything Star Trek newer than Voyager but YouTube put an ad in front of my face for it.
It..can't be good can it? What is going on? It looks like an excuse for a reunion/cash grab, is my assumption correct or is it too early to say just how bad it is?
No.1885
>>1878I watched it and didn't hate it.
There's no trekking through the stars in pilot episode, but it seems we might get to that.
Some of the premises are interesting so far, and I do want to see them develop.
Way better than whatever the fuck STD is as of episode 1,
but I can't help but feel dredging up ancient Patrick Stewart has only been done to get cash back after STD's abject failure.
I was moderately entertained viewing it,
so if you're willing to give it a watch, here you go:
https://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5840121 No.1886
>>1885
>dredging up ancient Patrick Stewart has only been done to get cash back after STD's abject failure.Yeah, that's exactly what I'm worried about. Although I didn't realize STD was that big of a failure. I was waiting to hear consensus before I tried watching any of it. The show was super early days when I was hearing from most people that it was trash but I heard a couple whispers of "we should give it a chance, people hated TNG at first too". I never bothered looking back into it. Sounds like it was a definitive failure then?
At least glad to hear their second attempt isn't an immediate rubbish heap from episode 1? I'll give it a shot tonight, thanks for the link anon!
No.1892
>>1878I watched it and thought "Trek is back". It is an engaging story that flows from an established event in a Star Trek episode. Wolf 359 was the catalyst for Sisko's character on DS9 and his tension with Picard, the Maquis from DS9 were the basis for Voyager, and Maddox/cybernetics from the TNG episode Measure of a Man is the start of Star Trek Picard. It's all part of the same universe and same events, the continuity is one of the things I love about Star Trek (and lack of it I hate in STD).
Personally, I've always considered Measure of a Man to be one of Trek's best episodes. We explore what it is to be human and ask about extending that right to non-humans, like Data. What exactly are we? is a question that is still unanswered. I'm hoping STP explores it further, which it seems like they're doing.
And there's a good explanation why Picard is coming back. Cybernetics/synthetics division of Daystrom institute has been all but closed down after synthetics were banned, therefore no one cares about them. If he doesn't do it, who will? He is also an admiral that quit starfleet (he wasn't discharged), so coming back is not unheard of.
About Picard's age. Do you not remember Grand Nagus Zek? Or pic related? When have you ever gotten the impression that in Star Trek your age or a disability or a mutation can prevent you from doing things and achieving what you set out to do?
Trek is back, enjoy it.
No.1899
>>1857They’re gonna milk it dry till Patrick Stewart is dead, aren’t they?
No.1900
>>1892>I watched it and thought "Trek is back".I don't know what you've watched. I've seen it and it's the most generic tv crap you could expect, and also capeshitty as well. Also the trek society is completely bourgeoise now.
No.1905
>>1900It's not though. Sure it may be "updated" and some things are put in it to capture a modern audience, but if you look at the elements that make Trek trek, they are in STP: many competent people deferring to one another, engaging story/plot, technobabble, people figuring stuff out, etc.
No.1914
>>1872TAS was considered during non-canon in the Roddenberry and Berman eras, but it is currently considered canon by Paramount and CBS. I personally like it being canon, if for no other reason than to complete the Five Year Mission. Plus, I like the show.
No.1917
>>1899With advances in CGI and virtual actors they don't even have to stop there, they have the rights to the distinctive look and sound of the character so they could use this technology to keep making new Picard TV shows and movies until the end of time.
No.1918
So I've come around and watched the first episode of Picard.
People praise the space sequence in the beginning, with all the colours, and frankly, I'm not a big fan of it. Space doesn't actually look like that but I'm willing to let that pass, rather, I miss the organic contrast of endless, black space with the white ship model (back from the days where they were handcrafted and not CHI). I feel like modern space operas tend to overload scenes with colours and can not help themselves but to use too much CGI. The Expanse did this much better.
Anyway, into the episode. It's too early to say much about it because the episode didn't leave us with much information. I don't know why they decided to blow up Romulus, because JJ Abrams already did that in NuTrek, which is supposed to be a different timeline. It'll get people confused. Picard's interview was a pretty blatant nudge towards the refugee crisis and Trumpism, I don't mind contemporary politics woven into the fabric of Trek but I'm not sure that the liberals running this can pull it off without going beyond "Drumpf bad" - TNG always had some interesting ideas about utopia and ethical problems, not sure if they manage to combine ethics, references to contemporary politics and a gripping story in such a way DS9 did it. DS9 was pretty liberal as well, but at least it all made sense and was fun to watch.
Blowing up Dahj and then "resurrecting" her by introducing a twin sister seemed stupid. What was the point of that? The audience didn't have any connection to this character, so there was no shock value in that.
I don't even think the show has a small pace. Fast-paced shows like STD are a pain in the arse. The Witcher was pretty slow-paced too, so I have no idea why people think Picard was slow-paced. Slow-paced or not, the showrunners should be careful not to manuever themselves into the mess STD is in by combining too many plotlines and themes. STD season one had a war with the Klingons, the retarded spore drive and the mirror universe, way too overloaded. Picard already introduced the android question, the Romulans being refugees, a conspiracy, and the Romulans living in a Borg cube, insinuating that the Borg will somehow play a role in all this. This is already incredibly loaded and the shitty thing is that these are all common Trek themes regurgitated, the Borg should not be touched after VOY ruined them, and if they have to be touched, they should just remain the threatening villain as we know them from TNG before "Descent".
So, slow pace my ass. This is already rushed. And are we ever gonna get a new species/villain? DS9 managed to create the Dominion as an intriguing enemy, and did not have to abuse the Borg or whatever. STD too did not manage to do anything new. The mirror universe was well established, and the Red Angel turned out to be a red herring.
Also, I didn't like how Picard, besides his two housekeepers, has literally field workers employed. What the fuck? Not only should this be automated, it made him look like some type of landed gentry. Also, did suit and tie make a comeback on the verge to the 25th century?
However, I'll keep an open might. It didn't amaze me but it also didn't disappoint me
No.1938
>>1918>by introducing a twin sister seemed stupid. What was the point of that?Data and Lore are twins, albeit made at different times. They said most promising synthetics came from twins. Data never killed Lore and was always interested in any relatives he might have had. Going so far to create an offspring. It fits.
>these are all common Trek themes regurgitatedAndroid question is the basis for the show (Measure of a Man, Maddox). DS9 established that the Federation is not all smiles and flowers (Section 31). Romulans being refugees gives the show a background, as in there's shit happening that is not on screen, but will get there. Conspiracies are a Star Trek theme period. Borg have been a threat since forever and in our 21st century tech world they're as relevant as ever. Notice how Picard lives on an old house, has a vineyard, etc. It's the clash of the old and the new, another Star Trek theme.
As I said, Trek is back. No one said it has to be amazing. Just better than STD
and VOY.
>has literally field workers employed.Agreed, that's fucked up. But we don't know the nature of their "employment". They could just be working there. Remember how Sisko's dad ran a restaurant and had people working there? There can be work without wage-labour.
No.1953
I FUCKiNG LOVE STAR TREK
No.2098
>>1938>>1905>>1892This is me and I have come to eat my words. I'm watching episode 3 now and I agree with the anons who have responded to me. I guess I just wanted it to be good. STD was shit and I hoped this would be better.
Nothing is happening. They're just talking in different rooms. It is amateurish, they're not doing anything while talking. In Star Trek they're usually walking, pressing buttons, moving around, here it's just shot reverse shot of people having conversations. It's so uninspired.
The characters aren't likeable, the story is not very compelling because there aren't any subplots.
Also, what's up with the fucking smoking? That dude smoking a huge cigar on the ship.
No.2099
>>2098Thank god I didn’t watch this shit. Knew it was gonna be bad.
No.2120
If you'd go back in time to when I was a teenager and told me that, in the future, Star Trek is so popular we'd get three new shows running concurrently, I probably would have been amazed and wondering how to watch it all. If I was told again, it would be this kind of nonsense, I would have been in disbelief.
Pic related is from the new Trek comedy cartoon Lower Decks (obviously toon-boom style of course). She's the ships doctor, and not one of the main characters. The main characters are, as the title implies, low-level flunkies who are no doubt going to get up to wacky adventures with the never-changing punchline being that the bridge crew never notices they're even going on. So, y'know, nothing like the actual TNG episode Lower Decks, where the lives of the characters and their concerns are treated seriously, to the point where it ends with the implied death (not to mention torture) of the one who put everything on the line to fight injustice. TNG had its cheesy moments and humor, but it all made sense and was acceptable within the actual story/world it is depicted in. This is exactly why I prefer the Orville, since it follows the original themes of 'Trek.
No.2121
>>2120Even the old Star Trek Animated, antiquated and childish as it is, retains adult themes and interesting ideas behind all the tongue-in-cheek humor and references. The artstyle was better too, the characters looked like actual figures and beings, not painted flubber. The animation is 'worse' but it was the 60s so it gets a pass on that
>inb4 toon-boom style is more fluid/budgetThe budget for any toon-boom style cartoon dwarfs the budget of any hand-drawn cartoon of the 60s, 70s and 80s. Moreover the availability of computers has made the process of putting them together for TV drastically faster and cheaper, allowing for more time to produce them. Star Trek Animated, despite being a throwaway series even cheaper than Hanna Barbara, had more subsistence than this noodly-limbed, inane, 'safe' garbage
No.2123
>>2098I disagree entirely. Adding to many subplots is never a good idea unless you have a clear direction to go to (like The Expanse), but evidence suggests that the guys who made STD made the story up on the spot - and even if you go back to interviews with the original DS9 writers or the VOY writers they also didn't map it all out. The first episode of Picard throws in quite a bit:
- Picard is ousted from Starfleet and struggles with his demons
- Data apparently has two "daughters", whatever that means
- the Romulan Empire collapsed and is now scattered in space
- the Romulan survivors have reclaimed an abandoned Borg Cube
- there is a new Romulan secret service that hates andriods
- some ratfuckery going on with androids, apparently somebody hacked them, with no clear reason why
Why the hell would you act more subplots here? STP obviously relies on slow built-up, a slow-unfolding conspiracy, etc. - STD rushed in with a dozen subplots that turned out to be a mess.
Some things about STP I don't like either. I don't like the Samurai guy that's teased in the last trailer. Completely ridiculous fantasy shit. I also don't like the android girl to be a Mary Sue that everybody wants to sleep with and who is incredibly intelligent and has some form of secret destiny. Universe revolving about XY mysterious charater who has to discover their destiny is not a trope you'd expect from Star Trek.
Whether or not STP will be good, will depend on how it ties together its plots and conspiracies. So far I'm enjoying it.
>The characters aren't likeablWhat don't you like about them?
>That dude smoking a huge cigar on the ship.And? Are cigars outlawed in the 24th century?
No.2124
>>2123Not him but
>Are cigars outlawed in the 24th centuryNo however it is a habit largely seen as primitive, as demonstrated in an episode where earth people from the 20th century are reawoken from cryosleep and act notably different to 24th century people. It's essentially the same as putting Arnold Schwarznegger into Star Trek, quite inconsistent.
>Data apparently has two "daughters"That's even more annoying, in the original TNG Data creates a 'daughter' android but due to the complexities of her positronic brain she eventually dies due to cascade failure of her neural net, even as Data struggles to try and fix her until he eventually acquiesces, learning a heavy lesson.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/LalTo have him so casually be the source of 2 new daughters off-screen is disconcerting to say the least. Hopefully they expand on that at least, though its unlikely.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Soji_Asha They don't even look like androids, too fucking human.
No.2191
>>2149The fuck is this garbage? I can't tell what the point is for the weird skit that goes on through the review and it goes on tangents and "muh cucks". The comments are /pol/ cancer, the video is inane, what a mess.
No.2195
I don't think it's a stretch to say that entertainment has been dumbed down to appeal to base ideals. It's never been a secret that Star Trek has had an underpinning of traditionally left wing ideas (at least while Roddenberry was alive), but it was never dumb or childish (or at least rarely). In part the blame lies in the hypercritical stance people have taken over the years. If you take risks, there are going to be times when you get it wrong. And like any popular media, the fandom tears into every misstep it can.
Discovery, the bit that I've seen, is the opposite of risk-taking. A very standard show, with very standard, modern visuals and camera work, very standard writing, and very safe opinions, such as they are. Its ideas don't go particularly deep. There's a reason people go on and on about representation, and that's because there isn't anything else. It never uses the setting to make a point, however simplistic. There's no episode where an Orion just paints itself pink or brown and pretends to be human so they don't have to deal with the racial/political implications that come with being from a planet-wide criminal syndicate or some other basal plot idea.
The Klingon Prison Ship episode for example; Good job, you accurately recreated a hellish prison camp as the backdrop to your character drama, how 'invaluably' this was used (sarcasm).
Star Trek has always been about a large cast of characters and not just 1 main character, and its diversity and politics were always plot relevant and not forced, not "muh short-haired black woman who don't need no man" stereotype. Star Trek was the celebration of being yourself often enough, and tried to go against stereotypes, while Discovery's main character is essentially a woman trying to be a man while pointing out they're a woman, something easily visible in her name being MICHAEL. As a person who enjoys diverse and interesting characters especially women, the past decade of media has essentially made female characters into pathetic partisan stand-ins. Like George Carlin said, whats the point of feminism if your only idea of a strong woman is for her to act and essentially BE a man? If men suck so much (as is implied) why is imitating them a good thing? Is feminism so devoid of anything that it has to stoop to copying those it opposes?
All that STD is missing is what we're getting from The Orville. NuTrak is just safe characters going through action plots. They even use modern language, which I absolutely hate. And then pat themselves on the back for having characters say "fuck". Aren't we progressive? FFS Deep Space 9 had Cirroc Lofton full on say "niggers". Except it's in an episode where it actually has a point, so no-one remembers it as special. As someone said, it's like Game of Thrones in space; war, bloody pointless brutality and political complications born out of bickering. In spite of having 1 main character there is far too large a cast in the show, ironic really.
Its essentially the Clone Wars TV series but without real grounding in the films/prior media and without any relateable characters or actual new ideas or realistic intricacy.
The one positive is that we never actually lost anything. The old stuff is still there, it's still just as good, and there are even people rediscovering it through the new content. Though I won't lie, it does fucking annoy me how this shit seeps into the community. For instance, now I have to bullshit-filter stuff I read on Memory Alpha because "muh Discovery is Canun!". Like, fuck off.
Honestly with all the diversity bullshit, you'd wonder, why not just go straight for a bisexual Caitian like M'ress being a main character of a show? You'd get:
A) a sexual minority (bisexual)
B) a female lead (feminism)
C) a minority race (feline)
D) you get furries on board (and /x/ lyran fags)
E) Trekkies would like it since its a canon alien not featured since the old days.
All that would be awesome… and that's why it won't happen.
The reason we won't see sexy space cats is the same reason they don't get anything else right. Sexy space cats aren't safe. They'd have to go through a design phase, of course. Then they'd have to decide how they're going to do it, make-up or CGI. They're going to want CGI, because practical effects make road-of-the-least-resistance execs puke. Then they're going to see how expensive it is and remember they're greedy, soulless fucks without vision, so they don't really need to do anything risky or avant garde. So they'll just slap a CGI tail on there like in the Into Dorkness scene and call it good. I mean, while we're playing up the promiscuous nature of Captain Kirk to almost comical levels we don't want to actually have him have sex with anything that doesn't look human in this science fiction franchise about exploration and understanding, now do we? That'd scare away Joe Average who pretends to be disgusted by anything but the thinnest of models so his friends don't call him a limp dick faggot. It's ironic that back in the day of "le boomer meme" people were a lot more internally accepting of such shit while today, they're more openly liberal when virtue signalling but in practice can't stop hiding behind their pretentious pandering.
They like CGI because it's easily changed in post without reshoots. You can see this with a lot of action movies. Gone are 80's squibs (even in many 80s tribute films) and in are CGI puffs of red, because they can easily leave those out and make the entire thing PG-13. With squibs you have to rig them for every single take, and for a big action sequence that can be really time consuming to redo. With CG blood you can do a lot of takes more easily then choose the one you want and add the effects to it later. However while that is true it means that they are took lackadaisical. The limiting factor of having to reset the squibs every time forced actors to do their cuts with more effort (which shows seeing the lack of proper facial reaction and general acting in general in many of today's films.
They only care about diversity as a marketing ploy. It's easy to cast non-white actors and then use them as a shield against criticism or as an accomplishment on their own. Discovery is less diverse than TOS, yet it wants all the fucking credit. It even tried to sell 'Michael' as the FIRST black star trek character, amended it to first black lead and finally first black female lead (also tripping over first female lead), ignoring TOS, VOY and DS9 in 1 fell swoop, despite STD supposedly being canon to TOS.
Frankly Discovery isn't as bad as other diversity ploys at least, "le cis-white-male" meme is still present but compared to Batwoman, Star Wars: Last Jedi and other inane trash its pretty low-key - not that being compared to trash makes it better. People were going to either support it as shallow newfags, support it for its radlib policies, or hate it for both those reasons. The executives apparently didn't realize this until the 2nd season which is why Picard was made, to hook fans back in with conspirational intrigue and a beloved nostalgic set of characters. It's mediocre pandering, like Force Awakens was to Star Wars, but people appreciate even that after the trashfire of the past years.
TL;DR: STD has little 'Discovery' in it being more like Game of Thrones than Star Trek, is bland, 'safe' virtue signalling aimed at SJWs and newfags because catgirls despite being more fun and new (in comparison, are not mainstream enough apparently. Picard is just a reaction to the failure of STD, and while enjoyable is mediocre in a technical sense.
No.2196
>>2195>we won't see sexy space catsI'm sure some of us would like to at least an episode about changing into an alien race.
>be guest character in the episode>transporter accident turns you into a catian>"We're sorry Ensign Anon, there's nothing we can do right now">entire episode of adjustment, learning lessons, the usual>episode almost over>"Ensign Anon, good news, we can turn you back now!">"Nah, I'm good.">"… You were supposed to learn your lessons and then be glad to return to familiarity.">"We live in a world where you turn Andorians into Klingons so they can overhear juicy bar talk. I'll turn back later if I want to. It's only been a few days. I only just learned to tuck my tail before sitting down.">Spend the week/month/year/etc. learning to be a different race, maybe enjoy being female (if you're originally a male and got made a girl). >Hell maybe just stay that way (especially if you need to change actors off-screen because someone can't show up anymore). <All the advantages listed for diversity
<Also gets TF fags bringing in money
Fucking hell, I'm just some anon on the internet and in about 10 minutes I've already written up the basic idea for a better plot than STD.
No.2198
>>2194>you all seem to hate it so muchWe don't hate it per se, its just shallow compared to the original. Everything you've listed is a callback or a reference or an imitation. Its not trying to be its own thing while retaining the spirit of Star Trek, its a big nostalgia fest, made as a hard-reaction to STD's failure. Like Force Awakens, its less its own thing and more of a amalgamation of things people liked from the originals. Not bad or good, just mediocre. It's fun to watch casually of course.
No.2199
>>2195I love the raw anger behind this post about not getting sexy catgirls. I also dislike STD.
you're turning me on, Anon.One of the reasons I like Picard is that their writers actually seem like they're writing a continuation of the series instead of whatever the hell they wanted with STD and the new movies.
And since to me, there hasn't been a Trek that was good before season 2… maybe a few episodes, but the really good ones come in the later seasons, don't they? I think Picard deserves an optimistic shot.
No.2201
>>2196>Injecting furry TF/TG fetishism into Star TrekHow about no.
No.2207
The series in a nutshell:
>TOSWeird new shit, studio doesn't really trust it, has to maintain a lot of muh traditional values. Roddenberry struggles to get good shit in there, but ends up being a huge milestone in TV and popular art in general. Has some good episodes but a lot of it is babby's first sci fi for boomers. Kirk is a straightforward power fantasy.
>TNGThe brand is established and trusted now. It's free to take risks and be more progressive or visionary. Has a lot of good high-concept science fiction, but kind of spoiled by Roddenberry's autism about the characters having to be boring. Also very boomer-poisoned with pandering holodeck bullshit. Picard isn't really a character at all, more like a marty stu perfect ideal (which is ok for what it's supposed to be, just not terribly compelling).
>DS9Peak Star Trek. Has plenty of high-concept sci-fi, but handled by actual characters, against a backdrop of regional galactic politics that can develop instead of previous shows being almost completely isolated episodes. Established and new species have room to breathe beyond the stereotypes. The characters actually play off each other instead of just being a high-functioning team. Sisko is underrated because his personality is understated (as he's playing the role of a stoic commander).
>VoyagerTried turning a sci fi franchise into an adventure one. Some good episodes, but by this point the writing was starting to degrade and some premises were wearing thin. Constant studio fuckery made it even worse. The trend in characters being more flawed and dynamic continued from DS9, instead of sticking with that balance, and it's not an improvement. Janeway is seen as obnoxious, but that's pretty justified given the story, as are the characters being shittier. Unfortunately she doesn't have enough positive qualities to make up for the negatives, and she's too inconsistent for her problems to become endearing or relatable. The story making sense doesn't make it compelling.
>EnterpriseAn attempt to keep the TV Star Trek franchise alive, by going back to an origin story. Lots of fan-wank and fanservice, plus TOPICAL shit about 9/11. Archer has the Janeway problem of inconsistency but even worse.
>JJ Trek>Discovery>Picardwhatever man shit's boring who cares
I second this
>>1870 for the order but note that you definitely can skip around TNG, which has some fucking cringeworthy early episodes before they figured out what they were doing with the series. Maybe look up a list of the best episodes for the early part. Voyager and Enterprise are optional IMO.
No.2208
>>2207>Peak Star Trek.Don't forget that lesbo scene
No.2210
>>2207>Sisko is underrated because his personality is understated (as he's playing the role of a stoic commander).Sisko is one of, if not the, most un-stoic of the different captains, though. I'd argue even Archer is more stoic than Sisko in his general interactions with others.
No.2211
>>2207>Peak Star Trek.<literal space magic happening encroaching on Babylon 5 territory
>actual charactersWhile not untrue, that applies to TNG as well your beef with Picard is your own
>stoic SiskoIf anything Picard was the stoic one and Sisko more laid back.
>regional galactic politicssomething TNG started near the middle of its run and in its films
>boomer-poisonedFuck off, the holodeck was used for hobbies and amusement as well as for thought problems and sci-fi concepts (such as the creation of Moriarty)
>Voyager<degrade
It was fine, the changes made sense and the 'degradation' made it flow better in extents.
>>2201How about stop being a prude. You're exactly the issue cited in
>>2195 No.2213
>>2211Mate, I'm not being a prude because I don't want niche fetish stuff in Star Trek. You can go ahead and have your fetish stuff in some other medium that was created explicitly for that, or fan fiction if you really want it in Star Trek that badly. Why do you think you need to shove your fetishes into *everything* though? Did it not occur to you that the *majority* of people do not share your fetish and furthermore may even be actively put off by it? And this is coming from someone that literally has no issues with TG/TF related media.
No.2214
>>2213>I don't want niche fetish stuff in Star Trek<niche stuff in Star Trek is now bad!
You missed the point of the rant
(and Star Trek) didn't you? Niche ideas, concepts and fetishes have been a part of Star Trek from the beginning, only newfags don't recognize this.
>Why do you think you need to shove your fetishesNo-one is shoving fetishes into anything, shapeshifting (among other things)is par for the course in Star Trek. Hell in the first season of TNG Troy was impregnated by an energy lifeform with itself so that it could experience being an organic life-form. Furries and other anthros were a part of Star Trek from the start, as the rant pointed out, nobody was bitching about that 50 years ago but because you lot are all virtue-signalling and can't seem to discern sexuality from identity you need to screech about it being important or not when that is irrelevant. M'ress hopped into bed with Scotty in one episode, nobody gave a fuck because that was just a commentary on how casual the idea of interspecies relationships was, not the focal point, and neither is it the focal point of the greentext. Stop making this about 'muh fetishes' when that wasn't the point, but a semi-joking addendum.
>the *majority* of people do not share your fetish and furthermore may even be actively put off by itStop making it about fetishes and ignoring shit you pretentious prude. The greentext mentioned that it can attract TF-fags, not that it was essentially about them. Stop projecting.
>this is coming from someone that literally has no issues with TG/TF related media.<How do you do, fellow kids TF-fags?
What anecdotal rubbish
Where in
>>2196 is there anything openly sexual implied. TF fags aren't all about sex you dumbass, changing into something else is not sexual unless you make it.
Fuck you for having to explain this shit.
No.2215
>>2214>You clearly just don't understand Stark Trek like I do.Alright mate.
>No-one is shoving fetishes into anythingMate, I wasn't just pulling some "hey fellow kids" shtick like you assume I am. To be blunt about it (even though I generally avoid discussing my fetishes), TG/TF is my fetish of choice, and I have plenty enough experience to recognize exactly the scenario that was described in the post I responded to as stock standard TG fantasy. "Oh no, I've been accidentally turned into a woman! What do I do! Oh no, I'm starting to enjoy it, now I don't want to turn back at all!". It's honestly pretty uninspired. I'm not even against the premise of "accidentally turned into another species", it was the explicitly fetishistic way it was framed that I reject, because I do *not* want Star Trek to turn into a vehicle for fetishism regardless of whether I find the fetish appealing or not.
>can't seem to discern sexuality from identityWait. Are you saying TF/TG fetishism is an *identity*? I mean…I guess as much as anything else can be, but…I really hope you don't base your "identity" around something like that. It'd be like if I based my identity around liking pizza a lot.
Listen, I don't give a shit about "furries" (they aren't the same thing really, but it's a distinction that I don't think actually matters here) in Star Trek, so long as they aren't being used as a vehicle for fetishism. You like anthropomorphic animal-like species in Star Trek? That's cool, I don't care one way or the other mate, more power to ya. Do I care if they have sex in the course of the show? Not really, no more than I have trouble with most sex in Star Trek usually being done kind of poorly.
>What anecdotal rubbishWhat the *hell* are you on about? I didn't realize I need to provide *evidence* of my fetishes. Do you want a screenshot of my TFGamesSite account or some shit? The topics on /d/ about it? Would that be less "anecdotal" for you, you insufferable prick?
>is there anything openly sexual impliedA fetish doesn't always have to explicitly be sexual in nature, but that doesn't mean it isn't a fetish.
Fuck *you* for purity testing me on this niche fetish of all things you faggot.
No.2216
>>2215> I have plenty enough experience to recognize exactly the scenario that was described in the post I responded to as stock standard TG fantasyThere are a lot of SFW films with gender-swap or race-swap (or both) that are excellent and irrelevant "muh fetish". Just like anthro animals in antiquity =/= furries, or a rectangle =/= square.
>It's honestly pretty uninspired.Did anyone say it was something so unique? How does that take away from it? There are plenty of things in Star Trek are standard Sci-Fi ideas (like AI robots learning to be human or interspecies relationships) , doesn't make Star Trek bad. Most ideas today have been thought of at one point or another, the issue is making your own twist or just having fun with it as I suggested in the greentext.
> the explicitly fetishistic way it was framedBull-fucking-shit, are you just using words and phrases without thinking? Where is thee fetishism besides the whole "hey let me enjoy the changes" thing? You're projecting your own hard-on here.
>Are you saying TF/TG fetishism is an *identity*?Not saying its essentially an identity to you, though it is for others, the point is more t othe extent about any sexual features. Just because its TF doesn't make it sexual, the context and execution does.
>they aren't the same thing reallyM'Ress is a Caitian, literal anthro pantherines who PURR. There are lizard anthros, dog anthros and others in Old Star Trek, those are essentially furry characters, or interpreted as such.
>I don't really care if they're ther or having sex but 'muh fetishism'Again, you're projecting. Fetishism wasn't the intent. The mentioning of furries and TG-fags is merely reference to the obvious demographic that would be interested for their own niche reasons, rather than that being the main reason.
>I didn't realize I need to provide *evidence* of my fetishesYou don't, but mentioning "I'm X and I don't…." is a dumb anecdotal argument. You being a TG-fag is irrelevant to the argument, but is being used as a bullshit reason for 'credibility'.
>you insufferable prick<says the person bitching about "muh TG in Star Trek"
Kek
>that doesn't mean it isn't a fetishJust because it is your fetish doesn't make it automatically a fetish. A child can smear food on their face and then eat it, does that make that a food-fetish? NO, because context fucking matters, and because interpretation fucking matters. Most people aren't going to be sexually aroused by seeing TG, but they're not really going to be disgusted unless its openly sexualized. Meanwhile a self-asserted TG-fag like you would find the situation to be their fetish.
>purity testingLOL fuck you, you projecting paranoid cunt.
No.2217
>>2215>>2213>>2201If you want an example of Star Trek TF in a purposefully sexual greentext.
>beam up with cute Caitian>Transporter mishap turns you into a cute Caitian too or merges the two of you>Possibly even adding years to your life by being a longer lived species, or simply younger>They do tests>Doctor tells you the good news first; >Your DNA is stable, there are no signs of degeneration>Then the bad news; >Trying to re-establish your original bio-patterns is too risky>Previous cases all had facilitating circumstances we can't replicate here>For all intents and purposes you are permanently stuck in this body<O-oh no! What a disaster!
<No, I will need some time to cope with the fact that I now have the body of a young, supple cat woman in a world that is incredibly sex-positive; no problems with same-sex and/or interspecies relations to the point of there being an entire free love planet.
<In fact, I'll take my leave there. Prep the shuttle, doc!
And the sexy adventure ensues, to boldly go where no deviant has before!
This is an obviously sexualized and fetishized greentext, unlike the one you responded too.
No.2223
>>2194The warrior cult seems out of character for Romulans, especially the sword stuff. It makes sense for Klingons to use blades as they're a warrior race, but for the Romulans who are into technology and deception it's a stupid idea. Also that retarded anime sword scene with the guy beheading the "senator" (apparently they came to the planet 14 years ago, how old was the guy when he was senator, 25?). Star Trek is not Star Wars, when characters pick up swords in the 24th century they better give a good explanation for it besides "it looks cool".
The Bird of Prey looked cool, I give you that.
Seven of Nine was teased to appear, but I'm hoping she didn't become too "human". Part of the appeal of Seven's character was that she was quite Borg-ish even after she decoupled with the collective, if she's now just a regular female character that would be disappointing, especially considering how old Seven could be a nice foil for Picard.
In general, I'm still having doubts over whether or not Kurtzman and co. have properly watched and understood Star Trek. There are some things that feel "off" to me, like the overblown relationship between Picard and Data, as if Picard was in love with data or something when in TNG data was more often than not a foil for Picard. They also haven't really given an explanation as to why the Federation went from a humanistic utopia to a MAGA style caricature ("good morning, plastic people") with a Fox News lady interviewing Picard and baiting him about refugees. One could speculate that this was a result of the Dominion War but the writers probably know fuck-all about DS9.
No.2224
>>2210He's pretending to be stoic though because he's a commander. His sense of humor is dry, and he is a master at hiding his personally-motivated actions behind protocol. Stoicism isn't about being a robot, but controlling yourself. Picard for example is just kind of blank.
>defending the holodeck episodes where there's zero stakes and people COOM over cars and shitok boomer
No.2225
>>2224Second part meant for
>>2211Clicking the post to quote didn't work for some reason.
No.2226
>>2195Star Trek did in the past score points with representation though, not as the sole but as one of the tropes that made it "lefty". The problem is that nobody cares about this anymore because our social values have changed a lot since TOS. Nobody gives a crap about gay characters or gender-bending first names.
Our current ideological dilemma is the gridlock of neoliberalism. If you
really want to make a provocative, progressive point that generates outrage just like Kirk kissing Uhura in TOS, you could have Michael say something like "back in those primitive days, earth too used a market system to allocate resources and labour, and not a planned economy" when they discover a pre-warp civilisation that uses capitalist markets. But this actually would require balls and I don't see the people who are in charge of Trek now having any.
No.2227
>>2224>defending the holodeck episodes where there's zero stakes and people COOM over cars and shitYou have to admit that this was a shift in VOY compared to the Trek that came before, this may have something to do with the "end of history" mentality prevalent in the 90s.
TNG, TOS and also DS9 always made the point that the 20th century was a time that was primitive compared to the future. Money, consumerism, greed, etc. was looked down upon as products of their time that have been overcome. Yet VOY, more then once, seems to faint in awe when confronted with shitty American consumerism like TV soaps (in the episode where they travel to 20th century earth Neelix literally gets fascinated by American trash TV), car brands and mainstream dad rock.
ENT was actually smarter in that regard. It portrayed the crew as still having hang-ups from the "primitive past" like militarism, doing it like "the good old ways" etc. but also overcoming them in the process of forming intergalactical alliances, culminating in the founding of the Federation.
No.2228
>>2227TNG is guilty of this shit too, especially since it introduced the holodeck and the opportunity to use generic show/movie props rather than bespoke Star Trek stuff.
No.2230
>>2224>Muh Consoom memeFuck off you disingenuous faggot. Having hobbies and exploring them episodically is just fine. Do you expect people to do drugs and drink on their off time or be constantly perfect 1 dimensional figures "the captain" "the First lieutenant" etc.?
>ok boomerThis dead meme is starting to be a good indicator of newfaggotry and pretentious zoomers.
DS9 had a lot of dumb holodeck moments, mostly because it broke the atmosphere of a war going on while TNG did so episodically and not when the plot had high linear stakes.
>>2226>Nobody gives a crap about gay characters or gender-bending first namesHeres the thing, nobody cared back then but it was done because there wasn't anything wrong with it. The point being made is how everyone is now doing it on purpose as a main part of a character for no reason except to virtue signal.
>this actually would require balls and I don't see the people who are in charge of Trek now having any.Kek, this exactly
>when they discover a pre-warp civilisation that uses capitalist marketsAh but this is nu-Trek where they think Elon Musk is an inspiration and Spock is emotional and had a secret sister, it can't go around being consistent and criticizing capitalism, that would be scary socialism!
No.2239
>>2238The problem is that 2D animation is becoming such a lost art in the US. So although the budget was 1/4th of what it would be today, there were more skilled animators and the cost of living back then was low enough in SoCal that they could make a career out of 2D animation work, which was plentiful compared to today.
A big reason why animation styles look so derivative these days is because most of the animation work is outsourced to South Koreans getting paid next to nothing, and the concept/story stuff is done in the US. That style keeps it closer to what the artists are used to drawing anyway so they don't need additional training. That isn't to say that some South Korean animation isn't great though, they have had their gems. It's just like anime, there's a lot of bland filler and then the Ghiblis in between. It's just unfortunate that the creators of the Star Trek animation decided to go with the former.
It's too bad they didn't decide to hire Titmouse. I bet they could have done a good job.
No.2293
>there's a race that can smell lies
No.2294
>>2293That's not really what pissed me off about that episode. A hypersensitive race can indeed pick up on clues like sweat, pupil enlargement, heartbeat, etc. - how do you think lie detectors work? After all, they fool him quite easily in the end by just giving him beta-blockers.
What pissed me off was that they had to introduce a Star Wars space Las Vegas with literal corporations, chain gangs, cartels etc. - I could accept this for things like the Orion Syndicate but for the Federation?
Also, to make Seven of Nine an overly emotional killer and rogue vigilant was a bad decision, change my mind.
No.2296
>>2294>how do you think lie detectors work?Lie detectors are bullshit.
>I could accept this for things like the Orion Syndicate but for the Federation?Can't have the federation be space communism.
No.2300
>>2294>Also, to make Seven of Nine an overly emotional killer and rogue vigilant was a bad decision, change my mind.I can't, because you are correct.
I was so fucking hopeful after last week's episode. This latest one kinda ruined it for me. Why the FUCK does ST have to be SO fucking grimdark now holy shit. Just like STD all over again. Nobody writing this shit has any imagination or optimism anymore, I guess? Fucking infuriating.
No.2306
>>2294>What pissed me off was that they had to introduce a Star Wars space Las Vegas with literal corporations, chain gangs, cartels etc.It gave me Neuromancer vibes. Especially cause the place is called "Freecloud", in Neuromancer it was "Freeside".
No.2318
>>2238>>2239>>2120Apparently they ordered 2 seasons off the bat, and it's airing on CBS. More importantly its being made by one of the creators of Rick and Morty. Barf, farts, burps and really stupid 'wacky fun' are assured now and Rick and Morty memers are going to probably drop in on this and shit up the fandom. It's amazing the The Orville was created by Seth McFarlane, the maker of Family Guy (though he's been pretty bored with that for a while now, which is why its so shit), but he still made it an intelligent and humorous Star Trek homage, so maybe Lower Decks MIGHT get some good moments in, however like Gravity Falls or Adventure Time its going to be pretty garbage over-all even with the interesting ideas.
-
https://trekmovie.com/2018/10/25/breaking-animated-comedy-star-trek-lower-decks-from-rick-mortys-mike-mcmahon-gets-two-season-order/-
http://archive.ph/Z3YKoAs a side note STD is now being supplemented with a series called Short Treks with characters from the Older Series in short unsequenced episodes (so basically shallow, high-budgeted short parodic fanfilms).
Why am I mentioning this? Because the same Rick and Morty creator is ALSO writing one of those episodes.
-
https://www.newsweek.com/rick-morty-star-trek-discovery-harry-mudd-writer-rainn-wilson-1124578-
http://archive.ph/eNIHJ No.2326
>>2318>its being made by one of the creators of Rick and MortyYuk. Thank god i didn’t waste my time on this shit.
No.2327
>>2326The guy seems like a bigger Trek fan than JJ Abrams and is trying to do something original. JJ Abrams got three movies.
No.2330
Go neck yourself, zoomer cunt
There was no more Star Trek made after the terrible mess of Enterprise.
No.2333
>>2327>a bigger Trek fan than JJ AbramsBeing a fan =/= making good content. The characters are OOC as fuck at the bare minimum.
>>2330Who are you replying to?
No.2509
>>1900>Also the trek society is completely bourgeoise now.By trying to give the characters more depth and edge like other current series they actually achieved this ironically enough.
No.2510
>>2330It's sad they tried something different in Enterprise and the franchise immediately keeled over (although I wasn't a fan myself). At least we're through the dark ages now and got The Expense, even if it's not a real substitute.
No.2517
>>2509Pretty much all of the characters in ST:P revolve around typical TV tropes though. Picard also comes over as a complete naive geezer. He's the fucking title character yet he feels like a pawn.
No.2518
>>2510The Expanse has the problem of Holden and Naomi being a bit boring but it has become my favourite TV show on air right now, not gonna lie. They're also not afraid to touch upon economic issues like NuTrek.
No.2519
>>2518Yeah it's my favorite show right now too. I think I agree with you on both of those characters being a bit boring which is unfortunate because most of them are pretty cool
(I want Bobbie to step on my face and bully me), but I thought last season was kinda slow. Still pretty good though. Can't wait for next season.
No.2521
>>2327>fanboy project There’s probably no bigger fan of Sonic and Pikachu than ChrisChan and look at what he’s up to now.
No.2525
Geez, in the last episode they've really just cashed in on the nostalgia. Riker and Troy are farmers now and that's all there is to it. Everybody shook hands and said goodbye in the end.
What I'm upset about is how they killed Hugh. That bitch ninja villian is not the least bit charismatic, but to tell everybody how "evil" she is she has to brutalize beloved characters people actually have a connection to. So she kills all these traumatized ex-Borg that were Hugh's friends, and then kills him to. I am okay with characters dying, but I have a problem when old characters are simply brought back to be meatbags for the new slick villian to kill to set them up. Khan only ever killed redshirts and he was iconic anyway. Write better villains. Two episodes ago they also brutally tortured Icheb from Voyager to death, just to set up that mafia lady.
Seven of Nine is gonna come back next episode and it looks like she's continuing to be a cold-blooded killing machine, already wielding two rifles at once in the teaser, lol. What a beautiful conclusion of her story arc from Voyager that ended up with her being human again.
Also, calling it, Sotchi (constantly having to think about the fucking Winter Olympics in Russia few years back when I hear that name) is going to be the Borg Queen, screenshot this. In the teaser you see the Borg Cube "regenerating", probably activated by her. Maddox couldn't solve the secret of the positronic net so he used Borg tech (which is why he was on Freecloud in the first place in debt to that smuggler lady). This isn't a new trope, already happened similarly with Lore in that TNG two-parter with a bunch of abandoned Borg. Kinda nerfed the Borg as well, massively.
By the way, when Picard was interviewed by the Fox News lady in the first episode, they really set it up that Picard was of course right to help the Romulans, and they then proceeded to show every Romulan to be an absolute cocksucker evil guy. Good job.
No.2666
I actually liked the last episode. It had a good pacing while keeping you interested. The dialog was written much better and Picard sounded like Picard again. The only thing I disliked is "Seven ex machina" which could have been handled more elegantly (is there any reason for the sword guy to exist at all?), and that they spaced all the drones. Would have loved to see some Borg action.
I guess what's left now is the resolution as to why synthetic life will result in an apocalypse. I hope it's gonna be intelligent.
There will also be a Starfleet vs Romulan battle, to which the cube with Seven's little collective will come to the rescue.
The institute in the teaser is also literally called "Koppelius Institute" - Koppelius was a character from the 1807 German horror story "The Sandman" in which a professor named Koppelius created an automaton with which a traumatized young student falls in love with, killing himself upon realizing it's a lifeless object used by the professor on him.
No.2677
Star Trek Picard Episode 8 really shows the neoliberal character of the writers/show.
The Borg, after being "liberated" by Hugh, keep on reproducing the same material conditions and their lives go largely unchanged. Even the borg robots, that create new possibilities of ship design, organisation, etc. are also use to reproduce the old Borg cube. In fact, all authoritative institutions in the show are shown as fixed, with factions fighting over control of the objects. The Borg cube hosts Romulans, liberated Borgs, then "real" Borgs again without undergoing any significant change. Federations "betrayal" of its principles and itself does not happen because of any kind of structural or internal problems that are hinted at in Deep Space 9, but an external enemy that infiltrated their ranks, a foreigner. Even then, that enemy does not want to destroy the Federation, the enemy is a single-issue movement that wishes to destroy all synthetic life forms in the Galaxy. Picard wishes to stop them, making his mission not to save the Federation or do anything important, but to fight for the rights of synthetic life forms, which have wiped out and therefore do not actually exist. Their gripe is not with the Federation or the system that allowed the genocide to happen, it is with the evil individuals who have gamed the system and made the Federation genocide the synthetics. This signals that established order is not to be questioned, things "just work", it is evil individuals who use it for their evil ends.
And what is the reason for these evil ends? A written warning from three hundred thousand years ago from an unknown civilisation that seems to have been wiped out by synthetics. In other words, a ham-fisted message about religious radicalism who wishes to negate an identity or destroy a people/species, and how it is up to individuals within the Federation to fight them using the system. And why wouldn't you use the system? After all the total elimination of all synthetics in the Federation doesn't seem to have had an effect on the society, everything just continued as normal. This tells us that once the Federation was able to create a superior being they did not use their abilities to do anything new, but they just had them become part of the system. Once the synthetics were gone, their roles were filled by humans and everything went on as normal. The only damage we can see is the psyche of Captain Rios who became an alcoholic with a split personality disorder.
Captain Rios' initial devil-may-care and freedom loving appearance were nothing more than a front for a broken human who years to be in the structured hierarchy of Starfleet. They go so far to say that he considered his captain, his superior, his father. "Called him pops in my head, almost said it out loud once." Fucked up.
Every time a character is about to do something interesting or just something, they are stopped by the plot and are then whisked away to the next dialogue. The characters do not seem like real people, they seem to be robots with a mission. We do not see them respond to situations in a characteristic way, all we see them do is talk to one another. Nothing ever really happens in the show outside of their mission. They talk a lot about the past, with the present existing only to find out the "truth" about the past and to achieve a SJW goal. The show is a 45 minute shot, reverse shot snooze fest, perfectly encapsulating the monotony of liberal capitalism and wage labour drudgery. The only thing that they could imagine is to have the characters talk in different settings, one of which is an idyllic late 19th century French farmhouse with servants and field hands. Appropriation of other cultures is the only way neoliberals can create anything of their own because ultimately it is an ideology without imagination, one which wishes to reproduce the current order and make money, so that money could be spent on better stuff and travel, rather than creating and building.
Speaking of imagination, the insides of the ships are empty and look uncomfortable/hostile for humanoid life forms. Everything is metal, cold, there aren't even any seats. The bridge of Picard&Co.'s ship's bridge is literally five office chairs in front of a small table. Either to save money or because they did not care, there aren't any consoles or panels, but they wave their hands in the air, on some sort of 3D hologram interface. They even use this interface to fly; what if something goes into the pilots eye during a manouver? They'd be fucked. and it's not only that there are not consoles, but there isn't anything else either. All the rooms are empty and devoid of any sign that actually living things live there. at least USS Enterprise had carpets and hallways.
>pic related, me on the left watching Star Trek Picard
No.2698
>>2578Our sense of what looks normal evolved with what is normal on our planet. Other planets with different conditions would likely have a different normal that seems alien and weird to us.
No.2702
>>2698Simultaneously there are limits as to what lifeforms can develop as. Many alien life forms simply do not make as much evolutionary sense compared to clearly carbon-based humanoids like Klingons. Its more likely that aliens will develop similar adaptations to similar conditions. denser gravity -> denser bones, desert conditions -> lighter outer-shell/fur/scales etc. There is reason that nearly unrelated life forms develop similar appearances and adaptations, the perfect example is ichthyosaurs, fish and dolphins. All 3 have the same smooth, tapered body shape, dorsal, pectoral and tail fins, each evolved in separate manners but superficially looking the same.
Star Trek has explored the concept of unconventional life often enough, but they are often incompatible with conditions on board Federation ships and hard to identify. This + production limits means humanoids are more prolific creatures featured. Some aliens such as the Ferengi are made for a specific point/foil to the Federation and their ideology.
>>2578>90% of the people here are rational and make complete sense!I think we all try our best
>What was the purpose behind making "sci"-fi just edgy and grotesque wackiness?Monster movies are cheaper and better at bringing in money than thoughtful films like Enemy Mine. It's a symptom of American gung-ho fantasy
>alien portrayal in cinemaWhile Star Wars and Star Trek have been very expansive in how diverse and interesting their aliens are, few outside their sphere, (other than the Predator and Xenomorph) have much acclaim since alien's are treated more like plot-devices and attackers than actual people.
No.2704
>>2578Alright, I am no treky and this is the first time I am posting ITT, but your post inspires me to go on a scuffed, possibly autistic tirade about how aliens would look at least in my opinion.
Speaking of your pic related, I would probably lean far more towards A, yet I do think aliens like
what I assume is your waifu
no offense please is also unrealistic.
So here is my reasoning.
By the way, I am no expert on any of this, so take it all with a lot of salt. First, I am limiting the alien variations to goldilock zone planets, so ones more or less like Earth. Now we also know that Earth had a few interesting periods in its history. With different composition of its atmosphere lifeforms also differed wildly. So apart from stuff we would more or less find in our current period on Earth dominated by mammals consideration should also be given for larger lizards and insects being possible aliens as well.
As for things like rock-people or zero-g outer space lifeforms, well, it really is just pure fantasy that
might exist, but I'd argue shouldn't be considered. However these, again,
might be sort of like B side ayy lmaos.
Now with general shapes that the alien flora and fauna can have in mind, let us consider which creatures could realistically form a basic society and eventually achieve technology at least of current human standard. Let's consider a few things that a species must and mustn't be to achieve this.
<Generational information transfer
From my understanding the single most important trait needed to form a society that would advance and not stagnate. I have no clue how our ancestors gained this ability, nor why no other species that we know of didn't as well. So for now let's just assume anyone can get it or else this ends here with me saying idk maybe only primates under certain savanna conditions can get it.
<Sociability
Obviously for any use to come of it the animal must also be communal. No JBP lobsters or egoist spiders. However to my knowledge basically every animal family has examples of this (communal spiders, most apes, crows and so on *sniff*). Again I will just assume this means any sort of animal can qualify this need.
<Size
Both micro and mega fauna will encounter difficulties that average sized animals don't worry about, hence they would most likely be the most common type of alien species to reach the stars.
<Appendages
Most likely any successful species will need appendages that could easily manipulate objects, so probably no space ungulates without some sort of trunk, fish etc.
Now, I would argue that any animal species with these traits I just mentioned qualified will likely be able to form at least a primitive communist society, however this does not mean they will be able to advance further. So, traits for a species to have in order to reach human levels of development
let's put what I learned from Cockshott to a truly useful task:
<Vore
Arguably only omnivores and perhaps herbivores can reach a sedentary primitive communist and eventually slave society. Carnivores will not be able to move away from hunter economy, and I doubt they would manage to create a farming economy based on slaughtering as it would be highly labour intensive. Herbivores might also be a bit fucked since it might get a bit hard to survive only on gathering and harvests, but perhaps they even beat omnivores since they would be more motivated to transition to agriculture, thus not needing a kick in the balls like the extinction of megafauna was for humans.
<Terrain
Only land-based species will have the best chance. Aquatic species will have trouble with mastering fire, which means that while they might reach slave or even feudal society, it will not be able to progress towards capitalist machine production. Perhaps alternative power sources for it can be found, yet again, this is a severe minus. RIP space squids.
Well, can't really think of any others of the top of my head, so I guess that's all your alien needs to qualify in order to get into space then.
Now let's also look at appearance. I think it's safe to say that the form of the body changes a lot during the primitive communist period. Some changes from the well known animals that could happen in the case of them becoming a sapient species: de-furryfication (though some would likely remain like human facial and bodily hair, change of appendage size and length, some general light changes to facial features, increase in head size.
I guess final thing to address is the "rubberheads". I think it might not be to far fetched. It is dependent mainly due to random mutations, so no real reason why our ears are round and not elf-like, or why our nose isn't more flat.
So, I guess that is kind of it then. Hope you enjoyed the tirade!
No.2713
>>2704>From my understanding the single most important trait needed to form a society that would advance and not stagnate. I have no clue how our ancestors gained this ability, nor why no other species that we know of didn't as well. So for now let's just assume anyone can get it or else this ends here with me saying idk maybe only primates under certain savanna conditions can get it. A lot of species do this. Even non-social mammals often pass on information, like bear cubs watching their mother hunt.
No.2719
>>2704Very nice input!
So, can you post a pic example of what kind of ayy you find the most realistic?
No.2722
>>2704The Star Trek thing is that all life in the universe was "seeded" from the same source. I think they even strongly hint in one of the TNG episodes that all humanoid aliens have the same long-forgotten ancestor.
But humanoid aliens aren't the only aliens in Star Trek. You have: sheliac corporate, goo that kills Tasha Yar, species 8472, the crystalline entity, the weird thing that thinks USS Enterprise-D was its mother (or mate? show is Freudian, so it doesn't matter), etc.
No.3044
I can't believe how much I hated the season finale of Picard. Really? Picard is a fucking android now?!
No.3048
>>3044It was terrible. This show was just people talking to one another. Literally nothing happened.
No.3050
They put Picard into an old man's body and then put a timer in it. Data has been stuck in a room, listening to records for all this time. And the big finale is Data aging and dying. This was total horseshit.
No.3052
>>3050Also, Picard outliving Data is bullshit too. Data was the embodiment of humans realising their limits and going above them (Marxist idea). To make it as if Data was somehow less than a human all along, and have our weakness be his biggest triumph is shitty. Yes, we get that dying is part of life, but Data wasn't alive in the same way we were, that's the whole point. We make peace with our morality, he makes peace with his immortality. Data becoming mortal, while Picard rejects immortality, sends a message that something better than what we have is unimaginable.
No.3060
Isn't it a bit ridiculous how they've come from creating two functioning sentinent androids (Data and Lore) by a genius scientist to now being able to mass-produce androids indistinguishable from humans? At this point they've acquired godlike level of technological development.
To them, Data compares like a Commodore 64 to a high-end gaming PC. Data had flaws, at some point him being sentinent was debated, he felt nothing when his Lal died, he didn't understand things on a meta level (humour, metaphors) and while he was learning he never really overcame his artificial side. There was an emotion chip but it malfunctioned all the time. Lore, on the other hand, was given emotions and ambitions, and that flipped him completely towards the deep end. Soji on the other hand is so human that she literally had an emotional breakdown when she realized that she was artificial.
I like the androids from Westworld - at times, serious questions are raised about their actual personhood. And when you carve them up you realise they're pretty clearly machine underneath that fake skin and blood. They could have gotten for a more toned down version like that, instead of like "yep, we can actually produce quasi-humans now."
The Borg have already been nerfed to death but this might be it for them to look ridiculously outdated. You want to combine biological life and technology? Oh, guess what, the Federation now produces tech-only life that has all the qualities of biological life but none of its flaws.
Star Trek: Picard teased me in the beginning hoping that we get more of the "Measure of a Man" type of typical Trek philosophical/ethical dilemmas as the story unfolds in that regard, but it dropped the ball. Episode 8 was only good episode, episode 9 and 10 was such an utter debacle I am genuinely interested how they could write this shit without physically cringing.
No.3061
>>3052Just to add on that, anybody noticed how they inflated the relationship between Picard and Data to a ridiculous level. I mean, Picard respected Data and supported him, but he wasn't literally in love with him or something.
No.3062
Also, this:
https://youtu.be/jqn0WhG53uAA couple of them slipped past. Did they really have Patrick Stewart say "ass-deep in Romulan space"? What the fuck. How did Stewart not intervene and told him this is absolutely not how Picard, especially the elderly version, talks?
No.3174
>>2677interesting. you might find this paper on historical materialism useful for developing your argument.
particularly the critique of the realist school which sees nature as unchanging.
In star trek universe then, should we not see that the 'races' should adapt to the inter-stellar order (which also constitues them in a complex dialectic)?
No.3207
I'm halfway through TNG. It's very comfy. Does Picard have the same feel?
No.3208
>>3207Don't even ask, brother. Please, just save yourself from having your heart torn out and displayed to you like a golden chalice to be smashed on the floor and shattered into a million billion pieces.
No.3218
>>3207Absolutely not, it's a soulless rip-off with a bad story and the most lukewarm standard themes. Go with DS9 once you finished TNG. DS9, especially season 3-6, is Star Trek at its peak.
No.3233
>>3207Found this kinda lib article that describes the new shit perfectly.
https://medium.com/@luke.d.a.wilson/star-trek-picard-a-utopia-lost-69cfb23918c4Also Patrick Stewart is an overrated piece of shit that soldout himself as a literal piece of shit in the Emoji movie.
No.3234
>>3207>>3218Best advice is just keep watching in the order it came out and stop when you feel like it's losing your interest.
No.3235
>>3233Go look up Orson Welles last role
I want to hear your reaction to that one
No.3255
>>3174Thanks for that PDF, it looks interesting. I'm gonna read it today or tomorrow.
>>3174>In star trek universe then, should we not see that the 'races' should adapt to the inter-stellar order (which also constitues them in a complex dialectic)?In TNG (less so in DS9) races have planet-wide cultures. It was probably done for simplicity-sake and is often made fun of. However, it allowed for dialectical solution of issues the Enterprise crew would encounter.
In some episodes, they'll visit a planet and the leader of the planet will tell them about some terrorist who is fucking with them. Then they go in thinking this guy is a terrorist but once they meet with him they realise that he's a leader of a movement or an expression of a tension in their society that is (usually) buried and hidden by the dominant faction. In some episodes the differences between the factions are physical. Ultimately, in the end of the episode, synthesis is reached and both sides are integrated into the "solution" and we're told that their society is better for it.
We get more space geo(?)-politics in DS9. However, it has a less of a dialectical message and more of a moral one, "do the right thing", "tradition and spirituality are important for well-being of a race", "there are bad actors who wish to dominate and destroy and they must be stopped by good actors", stuff like that.
No.3311
What's your favorite DS9 episode, /trek/?
For me, it's Bar Association.
No.3320
>>3311That one is fire.
In the Pale Moonlight, Far Beyond the Stars, and It's Only a Paper Moon of course. I also really love In The Cards and the one with Iggy Pop in it with all the Ferengi. I know they're kinda campy but they just give me a warm feeling like nothing else. God I fucking love DS9.
>>3207Fully agree with this anon's response
>>3218Also I was watching some Season 3 TNG last night. It just amazes me how an extremely average, early episode of TNG like The Survivors is about a million times better than any single episode of nu-Kurtz-Trek. This episode had unique sci-fi ideas, nobody in the crew were assholes to each other. Nobody died unless you count offscreen before the episode began. I can't say that about any of the new Trek.
Sad as fuck. I hope real Star Trek gets made again someday.
No.3321
>>3320>I hope real Star Trek gets made again someday.They never stopped making real Star Trek.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_fan_productions No.3327
>>3321Are these actually good? I have never watched them because I assumed I'd be turned off by a low budget production of a show that usually needs a lot of special effects.
Which one is the very best or your favorite? I'm willing to give it a shot.
No.3334
>>3311Tribunal. It runs only on cliché, but I can't not love that episode.
No.3342
>>3327Hidden Frontier, Intrepid and Of Gods and Men.
No.3367
>>3255The Cardassians have a redemption arc though by the end. Even with the Founders there is a peaceful sublation with Odo returning.
DS9 was great because it did not provide for a synthetic solution for the Federation, there
had to be war, they
have to play the game - similar with how the Borg are an enemy "that can't be bargained with, can't be reasoned with" - it pushes a society which has a supposedly higher moral code than us to the edge, and where the characters can't solve the moral dilemma but have to turn into what humanity used to be without not inciting that which was thought to be overcome.
No.3369
>>3368By the way, this isn't a disease that befell just NuTrek, the constant f-bombing and the cursing is pretty much an eternal rule for television these days. Even SciFi shows like The Expanse or Westworld, which I actually like, do this shit.
No.3376
>>3368Yeah, I can see what you mean. Of course I don't mind when there is occasional conflict but yes, you put it well when you say the characters are "thoroughly unpleasant people". I also despise the constant shaky camera and lens flares.
>>3369True. I don't see this going away anytime soon either. I wonder what this means for kids who grow up watching this kind of television? What will be the repercussions for how we interact with each other 10 or 20 years down the line? Will kindness and authenticity become even more rare than it already is?
I know I kind of sound like an old person grousing about kids/society these days when I say that. But I still can't help but wonder how much media will influence future generations, because of how much we live in fictional worlds now compared to past times.
No.3394
>>3255I really found that Cox is able to define Historical materialism in an understandable way and that his worldview makes a lot of sense today. I've heard that he's linked to neo-gramscian thought but not got too much into that yet.
The contrast between dialectics and morality is interesting here. Could you not say that the 'issue' in TNG episodes were also moral (in the sense that they weren't usually resource based (or were they?))
I'm also curious as to the militaristic command structure of the federation. I mean the decision in Picard for the federation to abandon the Romulans and ban AI was straight up command. Does this imply that Earth of the future is authoritarian-communist? Were there not Pro-Romulan NGOs on Earth who would have fought this?
Compare to our modern world system, which I'm not saying is any better. In our world, the World bank, ICC or the UN or whoever would not have declared the Romulans beyond saving outright, but would have designed policies and 'targets' that would have diverted resources from them under the guise of pangalactic solidarity.
No.3421
>>1863Star Trek TOS was actually pretty smart. TNG was boring and camp but still socialist and secular, Voyager was more boring and got especially bad near the end. Enterprise was lackluster and literally the only thing that made it watchable was that the vulcan girl was a literal model IRL and had tons of sex appeal.
DS9 took out the cool philosophical ideas and and was just lowbrow sci-fi action series where religion was fucking real.
Discovery was where they completely sold out to the capitalist property holders with no respect to the canon. I haven't watched Picard so IDK if it's even worse.
No.3423
>>2722It still makes zero sense that the major antagonistic empires all happen to be close to the Earth in terms of technology or even culture. There should be massive gaps of millions of years. Instead the Romulans were literally at the same development as the Federation, plus or minus a hundred years, with both sides firing primitive nuclear misses at each other in space.
No.3429
>>3425>What the fuck happenedA legion of vile VFX artists invaded Earth and used a vile weapon known as LUT to turn the world bloat yellow! This disaster went down in the history books as "the great colour correction".
>>3428The CGI in this shot is unironically awful. Can only imagine the harrowing experience that must have been working on this piece of shit.
No.3430
>>3429Paris by law currently restricts the height of new buildings so the new ones won't tower over the old ones. I'm pretty sure future France wouldn't let them erect such ugly buildings that close to the Eiffel Tower. They look much worse than the mish-mash of new skyscrapers you see being built in Chinese cities like Beijing, but there's neither Shanghai's sense of playfulness at the Bund, nor any harmony in the style. You just feel sorry for the people who would have to live in 24th century Paris.
They'd have been better to have not even bothered to show Paris and should have just left it up to your imagination. It's architectural vandalism. My theory is that capitalists took over Paris and abolished their society for preserving historical buildings, and threw up some cheap office buildings as replacements, but then brought back the society for preserving those "historical buildings."
…But least the promotions warned you that it was shot on yellow film stock.
No.3437
>>343024th century Paris only looks like after after kurtzman retcon the federation from being post scarcity communism to bargain bin cyberpunk.
No.3441
>>3428>Tall buildings in the Centre of ParisThe Dominion was right the Federation deserves destruction.
No.3442
>>3437>>3441It's how liberals imagine the future, metal and glass monstrosities, with everyone having a flying car.
No.3492
>>1914TAS was great, even using scripts and plots they couldn't add in the show after it ended which is what made it so great
Great story, but cheap animation
Also most sources say it's all canon anyway
No.3496
>>3425>What the fuck happened to the sun in the future?we obscured it
No.3628
>>3627Because it’s really hard to make a good anthro suit that can convey emotions with a tv show budget. The hydrolics to just move simple puppets and animatronics like Star Wars and Hellboy are expensive as all hell. So they apt for using rubber face humanoids with an explanation stolen right from the Strugatsky series in which they’re all made by a progenitor species.
It’s sad that things like Species 8472, Xindi-Insectoid/Aquatic and the Dominion Changelings are not the norm but an exception to the rule. I wish Star Trek get to explore more alien life than just monoculture humanoid civilizations.
The new series could just flesh out the already existing species and that would have been a huge improvement. Instead they went for shitty liberal cyberpunk shit.
No.3640
>>3627Gene was still part of TNG and the rest of Star Trek until his death you dolt. The Ferengi (for example) had to be approved by him.
No.3646
>>3640It’s just the contingent of the board’s furries acting up again. Them being the most active thread here for months.
No.3648
>>3627They should stop modeling aliens after humans tbh. I guess it was inevitable back then due to lack of technology. I'd like see some wacky aliens that don't resemble either humans or any other animals of earth. Qs specie was the most interesting to me cause they were so different from everybody else.
No.3655
I'm still pissed about how unbelievably fucking bad Star Trek: Picard was. Star Trek is actually something I care about and seeing it's corpse raped by Kurtzman makes me sick.
I was willing to give Kurtzman and his friends a second chance after Discovery, I was hoping that Patrick Stewart and the other TNG actors are not sell-outs and would exert some influence, but apparently they are, in the end, all elderly dumb actors that want to revive their old fame. I stayed with the first season to the very end, but the last two episodes really pushed me over the edge. What a fucking shitshow. The plot was completely ham-fisted and stolen from Mass Effect, pretty much the only thing Kurtzman can do is steal. The visions of the "admonition" are stock images off Google, the genocidal robots from the other dimension are from Matrix, the android themes are borrowed from Westworld which tackled the issue ten times better, the fucking Romulans lost every characteristic are are just evil humans now, Picard is a useless pussy that everybody hates, the Borg are useless pussies now that they are brought down by a literal flower, everybody swears all the time and is stingy, there is a magical repair device that just does what you think (!), Seven of Nine is a lesbian psychopath now, and the worst thing ever: They made Picard a robot but a malfunctioning one that emulates a feeble old man that will eventually die - and Picard endorses that of course. Jesus fucking Christ. Also, do they realise that they made a case against synthetic life, considering Soji was almost ending all life in the galaxy?? This is the absolute worst and the people who made this are incompetent, uncreative, toxic and lazy idiots.
Phrases actually uttered by characters in Picard:
>ass-deep in Romulan space
>it's the abusive Romulan boyfriend
>I love you Data
>shut the fuck up Picard/J.L. (4×)
This isn't Jean-Luc Picard, this is J.L. Picard. Excited in a masochist way for season two, maybe we get to see robot Picard having gay sex with Q or something after which he says "that was the greatest fuck I've had my entire fucking life". Buckle up, the Kurtzman train is rolling, three more ST shows are already in the oven
No.3657
>>3655>I was hoping that Patrick Stewart and the other TNG actors are not sell-outs and would exert some influence, but apparently they areLmao do you remember Star Trek Nemesis? That was pushed by Stewart. I had no hope for him ever since the Emoji Movie.
>Buckle up, the Kurtzman train is rolling, three more ST shows are already in the oven<Implying
Discovery was already the last straw for the series. It’s already dead.
At least I still have my Soviet Star Trek - like Noon series to finish reading. I basically given up on any sci-fi from the western sphere by this point. It’s going to be fucked by Hollywood later so what’s the point even hoping.
Stranger Things season 2 taught me that.
>>3648Most Normies still don’t get the point of having aliens is that they’re completely alien to us in shape and mind. They’ll get confused when they can’t empathize with the ayys.
No.3658
>>3648>They should stop modeling aliens after humans tbh.The truth is that an hypothetical e.t. species would be functionally similar to us.
No.3659
>>3658*superior intelligent species
No.3660
>>3657>At least I still have my Soviet Star Trek - like Noon series to finish reading. I basically given up on any sci-fi from the western sphere by this point.The Expanse is decent. I know it's gonna be Hollywood kitsch no matter what, but even from the mainstream producers that could potentially produce Star Trek Kurtzman is absolutely the fucking worst. I think the guys who make "Electric Dream" could make a good ST show, don't know.
No.3663
>>3658Upright and bipedal at least, but humans with tumors and skin cancer?
Idk why this was ever even a thing
No.3664
>>3663Don't be so uptight. In many cases, aliens were just surrogates for human cultures/social problems. 90% of TOS and TNG was either meeting gods, or aliens that resembled some problem that humans had to deal with in the past, which they now have overcome, but now had to be confronted with it again which makes the entire charms of the series because the humans are the actual "aliens" to the viewer because they still live under the absurdities of capitalism, whereas he or she recognises in the alien their own predicament.
There is another reason, episodes with non-humanoid aliens have been widely regarded as the worst episodes, because it's always some non-corporal entity that takes over the crew or the ship. Basically ghost stories.
No.3668
>>3658True but their similarities would be superficial at best.
>a mean of communication >strong manipulators for tool use>good memory and a big brain>omnivorous or carnivorous to better utilize food sources The rest is up to the conditions of the planet they inhabit.
>>3663Would aliens be bipeds? Why can’t a species like Birrin be possible?
No.3674
Man, I forgot how weird and sometimes sexual the mirror universe was.
Watching the first mirror universe episode of DS9, and damn does it get selfcesty at times.
No.3677
>>3674That's because Kira is one of the most beautiful woman whoever been on screen. Generally, the mirror universe storyline in DS9 is usually considered a lackluster.
No.3734
>>3646Idiots. I was the guy who made the TG/TF post but I still think this kind of shit is stupid for fetish reasons.
>>3648>I'd like see some wacky aliens that don't resemble either humans or any other animals of earthStar Trek had that several times, however they're limited in interaction due to the issues of communication.
No.3738
>>3734Which posts did you make?
No.3751
>>3738I was referring to the TG TF I mentioned in
>>2195>>2196>>2214>>2217 No.3752
>>3751So then, you aren't for lyrans, or caitians in this case, being in Star Trek live action?
No.3766
Unbelievable that the guy who started the discussion "hurr why can't they have less anthropromorphic aliens" secretly just wanted to push furry shit. Please don't be like that.
No.3768
>>3766What are you talking about?
No.3774
>>3752I am all for it, but only if it's relevant to the story and world-building, and not just "haha random alien reference guyz!" like Abrams did in his movies.
>>3766>>3768Keep furry arguments to the furry thread pls.
No.3776
>>3774I mean, you say you're for it… then go and say you aren't for the arguments that are for it
It's flattering seeing the images I edited on here though, how I found this place.
Really solid posts from months ago.
No.3778
>>3776>say you aren't for the arguments that are for itNigga read what I wrote in the TF thread. The idea of having a plot-related change or focus on an anthro alien can be implimented if done thoughtfully and not just "Hurr alien fur-fag XD"
>flattering seeing the images I editedDo you mean the M'ress edit? Are you from the /trash/ Space Kat threads?!
No.3786
>>3778Well the images I've seen ITT were from /tv/ threads
But the spess ket threads are very nice. Probably the best threads on that site
Well judging by your answer I see you've been there heh
No.3807
>>3627Human-like people already genocided almost all strange species. The secret the federation doesn't want you to know.
No.3954
>>3944You've watched the finale? I think the finale was the worst shit I've ever seen that one could be doing with such a budget.
No.3955
Am I the only one who thinks VOY doesn't deserve it's bad rep? It's basically TNG 2.0 and the best episodes can easily keep up with the best TNG episodes and I think its best characters too. The only reason to be upset at VOY is that it's playing it completely safe and doesn't get experimental like DS9.
No.3957
>>3954I’m still having ptsds from that. Fucking hell, if Kurtzman wanted to make an ME show about the Geth he should’ve done so and not shit all over ST like this.
No.4044
>>3955Nope, same here, and a few others in the thread.
>>4041Never because
>>2195>The reason we won't see sexy space cats is the same reason they don't get anything else right. Sexy space cats aren't safe (anymore)>>3786Sorry, late reply: yeah I'm from those threads, a few people here are actually.
>>3944>>3655A good overview on the issues of Picard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsmqcLv8Q-4 No.4046
>>4044'Never' is a pretty big word though
Like saying society and people never change, while they are constantly
No.4052
>>4046>pretty big word thoughNever in the sense that we likely won't see it done in the next couple of decades outside of fan-work.
>picreminds me of that old fanart of M'Ress straight up murdering a Yautja
>>4050I fucking love how "tall buildings" in Europe are medium-small sized compared to sky-scraper behemoths all over US cities. This is why I like Europe. They don't go totally nuts with the new buildings.
No.4073
>>4054Aye, See pic 1
>>4044>>3655Speaking of Data this is his last (non-CGI) portrayal since Spiner is done portraying him and thus that is why his "daughters" were made, tying up the loose ends of TNG and Nemesis (loose ends that I rather doubt people wanted answers to).
-
https://www.cbr.com/star-trek-brent-spiner-done-playing-data/-
https://www.cbr.com/star-trek-picard-data-what-happened-data/-
https://www.cbr.com/star-trek-brent-spiner-talks-picard-finale/ I feel like his 'praise' is more of a "yes, yes everything is fine, bye now" so that he doesn't have to go over the role again
>>3655>Seven of Nine is a lesbian psychopath That and the other forced diversity rubbish is being praised as putting Picard into the 21st century! An ironic statement considering the far-future of the original TNG and its ideological themes… I miss the quiet yet genuine erotica of lesbian relations in older Trek series (pic 2). The worst part is that Picard is declared as 'fixing' this, because subtle show-don't-tell in a television series is BAD because it doesn't have blatantly forced exposition about "muh lesbian feels!"… which is even stupider considering the character os Seven-of-Nine in the first place making her an implied bi-sexual. DS9 spent 6 episodes exploring this alt-universe with downright slash-fic scenes, but apparently that's not enough to get a "gay-approved" stamp. It's like with the "gay Spock" shit, because 'the (new) actor is gay, so is the character'… 'cause fuck people having real identities.
-
https://www.cbr.com/picard-lgbt-romance-star-trek-21st-century/-
https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a31957723/star-trek-picard-seven-nine-lgbtq/And of course Discovery's hamfisted insert about gay marriage is also paraded as some great step… simultaneously criticized for the downright asinine reason of "bury your gays", a trope that has specific context.
The fact that people are obsessing over a character's onscreen sexuality over the actual character is honestly almost as bad as waifu-fags. This is why I prefer The Orville, they cover gay, bisexual, lesbian and trans relationships (as well as things like cheating and polyamory) in a comedic light most of the time, but also manage to provide serious discussions and thought on the topic, especially with the character Bortus and his family. It's important to the plot, yet does not dominate the character's identity.
Ironically there is popularity for Seven-of-Nine being a futanari (spoilered pic 3), explainable due to the Borg tendency to integrate parts of other species, which would (possibly) include being hermaphroditic, something left unexplored by Star Trek.
Unfortunately logic is swept under the rug for the much louder cries of
>NO, IT DOESN'T COUNT IF IT WAS GROUNDBREAKING BACK THEN, IT HAS TO CONFORM TO MY RAD-LIB STANDARDS OF EQUALITY TODAY! FUCK THE STORY YOU CIS-GENDER HETERO-KIN!!!Whatever, fuck nu-trek, fuck diversity pandering, they should just tell a proper story and not spew identity politics for no reason, because if sexuality is such a big part of your identity, you have no personality.
PS: The new haircut for Seven-of-Nine is ironically regressive compared to the short-hair she originally had. (not to mention the pointless curls. The new actress is also one of 'those' actresses who have the same prissy face and attitude, which is already irritating as it is, but also - considering the original actress for the character being played - clashes horribly with the stoic yet beautiful face from before.
No.4080
>>4073noice danke
beautiful
No.4094
>>4050pic 1 related
>>4073>one of 'those' actresses who have the same prissy face and attitudeI realized I may have to clarify this point. What I mean by this is the actress both by her looks, her voice and her manner of speaking, SCREAMS "angsty young adult SI" echoing back to passive aggressive teen flicks from the mid 2010s (like Insurgent). You see the same shit in Brie
cheese Larson, you see it in Dark Fats genderbent John Conner ripoff and every other garbage movie and series from the past 5-7 years; neither old or tough enough to emulate a cool independent woman like Ellen Ripley, nor young and natural enough to be someone like Buffy. It's full of this stuffy, falseness a lot of characters (and people IRL) have in America. Even the Barbie-doll attitude of 80s housewives wasn't this plastic.
>Inb4 she's a borgShe's not unnatural like a borg, but like a bad actor. Seven of Nine is characterized by her stoic behavior and her attempts to, like Data, integrate with human and alien counterparts better, not act like someone who never grew up from being a snooty college girl.
>>4054BTW, Sauce on that reaction pic?
No.4098
pls make a containment thread for the furry shit
No.4126
>>3627For one, some of those alien designs on the right were likely approved by roddenberry. Another thing to note is that back in the time of TOS they couldn't do the makeup work that was possible by the time of TNG so many aliens are just people in costumes or painted a different color, or almost exactly like humans. TAS was an animated series which made possible most any alien race they wanted to make possible since you just need to draw it instead of using make-up, allowing for more animalistic species. By TNG they could do more with the makeup though not enough to make them really different, so they were almost all different variants of humans. While I'm not personally a fan of "humans with a bunch of shit on their heads" designs TNG and later went for it made sense since many societies variations of human societies, leaving focus the moral/philosophical questions that are more like humans instead of the focus being on "How does a race of large slug people live" or something like that. In other words if they point of the episode was something like devil in the dark from TOS it'd involve an alien very different from humanoid species because thats what the focus is about, encountering a life form functionally different from our own. But if the episode was about ethics during a time of war it'd make sense for the aliens in question to be very similar to humans since the episode's focus is something possible for humans or a moral/ethical exploration humans could understand. I might be thinking too much into this but it's easier to use what are basically humans for concepts applicable to humans since that is the focus.
No.4134
>>4094Well the character is Megumi from Crash Team Racing: Nitro Fueled
I believe I got the pic from the /vg/ thread on 4chan
No.4163
I miss real star trek
No.4166
>>4163I recently watched ENT and I wonder why it's such a slog to watch. They basically have the right ingrediences, the have the hold writers, a somewhat okay-ish crew, and a decent setup as a prequel series, and we get to see all the first contacts they made with species we all know too well, like with the Romulan Star Empire. We also get to see how the Federation was formed, how the Prime Directive came into being, etc.
In my view, some of the bad elements that trouble NuTrek are already visible to a degree, the less of a focus on ethical/philosophical dilemmas and the over-reliance on nostalgia (it isn't surprising that most of ENT's best episodes are the ones that are references/hommages to past installments), but it was largely contained.
I think they just never knew where to take the show. The Vulcan stuff was good, because it made sense, as the Vulcans were the first aliens humans ever had relations with. But I think the first contact episodes with Klingons and Romulans were largely botched, the whole show didn't really feel like it explored much, the Xindi storyline was pretty generic, etc. - if they started serialized arc about the Terran-Romulan War in season 5 it could have been saved.
No.4167
Star Trek is shit compared to Star Wars
No.4172
>>4167>first good movie<hey, rescue this princess, those are the bad guys, this is actually a fantasy story just… in space! you're a white hat you're a black hat
<also, we have John Williams
>second good movie<so we are going a little bit grimdark, just a little
<heh, so that guy was your father all along huh? bet ya'll didn't see that coming!
>rest of the movies is utter shit>reboot, being even more shit No.4174
>>4172Star Wars is weird. Basically all of its primary material is trash or overrated meh films, however all of the auxiliary stuff really carries it out.
No.4178
>>4167Star Wars is cringe breh
Mandalorian is a least interesting
No.4179
>>4178>Star Wars is cringeStar Trek is idpol
No.4183
>>4179Star Trek was pretty anti-IdPol. They were inclusive, like they had blacks, women, aliens, androids, etc. but none of them had any privilege, they were all equal.
No.4184
>>4183This is the essence of idpol, the future will be racist as fuck and every woman will get her ass spanked until she sucks off the captain in his quarters
And she’ll be the secretary too
No.4206
>>1864I dunno, I liked the mirror universe episodes and Lorca
No.4207
>>4202There is also a scene where Abe Lincoln calls her a negress and she doesn't even take offense because she literally can not comprehend racism similarly to how a modern person could not comprehend being called a "heathen" or "heretic" - this is proper dialectical sublation. NuTrek would have had her kick his arse because yas queen slay
No.4208
>>4206Lorca started off promising but to make him the evil guy was not built up properly. He's been shown to be as somewhat ruthless and not being "your typical Starfleet captain", they did this already with Sisko so this isn't a big of an issue. The problem was that we suddenly are supposed to hate him after we just wanted up to his character, all because the Empress happens to be an Asian female, so it doesn't fucking matter that she is
literally worse than Hitler (she was seen eradicating entire planets and eating the embryos of a sentinent species) whereas we seen Lorca doing nothing of this shit.
The mirror universe is so comically cartoonish, it works for tounge-in-cheek episodes like in TOS or ENT but not for serious storylines as they tried to establish for DS9 and STD.
No.4213
>>4202well, answering the phone was still the most important task in stos
No.4215
>>4202>she still has to answer the phoneYou mean like many modern men do on military ships today? Being a phone operator isn't a bad thing and even if related to "women" what's the issue exactly?
>>4207That was honestly one of the most interesting scenes, I broke out into clapping when seeing that, just because I was so relieved there wasn't going to be the "yasqueen slay" bullshit and instead approached the situation realistically and intelligently.
>>4208>>4206Interestingly Lorca commanded the ISS Buran… clearly a reference to the Buran Space Shuttle. Lorca is also clearly a revolutionary, considering his attitude against the Emperor. They try to depict him as seeking power, but frankly I sense that, were the show to follow a logical flow, he would turn out to be ideologically Marxist-Leninist…. but of course they had to flanderize him into the villain.
No.4720
>>4207>because yas queen slaypol headcanon
No.4722
>>4720>Everyone is /pol/ because shitty liberal caricatures of strong women make pp hardFuck off
>>4213Kek, unironically true.
No.4724
>>4202Roddenberry wanted to be more subversive but there's a lot of traditionalist shit shoehorned into early trek especially TOS. Compare the treatment of gender and gender roles in The Cage to the rest of TOS and even the series as a whole. The antagonists are completely androgynous and the writing takes a bunch of shots at sexism. Captain Pike specifically is portrayed as having his heart in the right place but still being ignorant and insensitive to the women in his crew.
No.4731
>>4724I agree mostly however
> traditionalist shit shoehorned in1) Its not really shoehorned in, they're a crew and crews have to follow orders and stick to doing their jobs which cn include being a phoe operator (not an easy job). - t.crewworker
2) tradition is not automatically bad. Changing things for the sake of changing things is idiotic.
No.4746
>>4745Lots of idpol, smarmy asshole white-men caricatures and retcons all slathered in CGI.
Or as
>>4720 seems to think "pol headcanon"
>>4178>>4179>>8974Can we delete pointless1-3 word shitposts like this?
No.4749
>>4745Ironically this might be harder to fuck up, because Pike was received as one of the more tolerable characters, I guess nobody cared about Spook but he wasn't an annoyance like the other dumb characters.
But remember it's the same guys who wrote Picard: Chabon made
Picard a robot, Seven of Nine
a mercenary kicking corpses off platforms,
copied the plot of Mass Effect 3, and used
stock footage. There is no way I trust these idiots to write a coherent story or even design a Star Trek set properly (not making everything blink and hectic and dark and shaky cam).
No.4851
>>2125>The Orville sounds great, but where can I watch for free, I’m not gonna pay Hulu shit
No.4852
>>4808Plinkett annoys the shit out of me because he sometimes says stupid shit unironically, rather than comedically like Critical Drinker or Mauler, but I'll give him a try here.
>>4851watchseries.is or any other similar site
https://watch-series.co/series/the-orville-season-01/season Hook it up to HDMI and roll.
No.4856
>>4852>>2125>very first scene is the protagonist's wife getting [i]BLACKED[/i] BLUEDbruh
>this is the focus of the first episode, and it comes with retarded/sexist conclusions about cheatingI went in knowing this was a Seth MacFarlane show so my expectations were already low but holy fuck.
No.4860
>>4856>bruh<oh wow a modern american show has cheating in it
How is this surprising. It's not even unrealistic FFS
>retarded/sexist conclusions about cheatingFucking how? They conclude that people can make their own decisions but also have to live with the consequences. Nowhere is a persons sex come into this. The "girls/women" complaint is mocked throughout the show
Also
>judging a show by a pilot episodeAre you daft laddy?
No.4893
>>4852Watched the first two episodes, it’s pretty light hearted and comedic (what did I expect from McFarland) but the humor is very funny, and the characters are well developed and the plot is nice. Considering the shity state of things right now it’s nice to watch something optimistic for a change. If someone likes McFarland's humor they will probably like it. If not it doesn’t seem like this is for them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RdU51fKc_4 No.4896
>>4894heh, nice work anon
No.4905
>>3251>>3235>"You know what I did this morning? I played the voice of a toy. Some terrible robot toys from Japan that changed from one thing to another. The Japanese have funded a full-length animated cartoon about the doings of these toys, which is all bad outer-space stuff. I play a planet. I menace somebody called Something-or-other. Then I'm destroyed. My plan to destroy Whoever-it-is is thwarted and I tear myself apart on the screen."-Orson Welles, 1985
No.5123
You may have seen this on the chans
Not exactly "trek" related but sci-fi enough on the topic of aliens
This is a picture showing off just about every kind of alien humanity really believes exists irl.
https://www.strawpoll.me/20225795Was curious to know what bunkerchan believes is out there
You could pick more than one on this poll btw
No.5127
>>5123On the subject about aliens. I also came across this straight up communist species of ayys project.
Behold The Planters!
https://specevo.jcink.net/index.php?showtopic=393&st=30The evolved on a used to be ocean now desert planet where with insane gender dimorphism where the male is the equivalent of plants and the female is the equivalent of animals.
They don’t possess the concept of private property due to the harsh conditions of their planet. Their main ideology are the equivalent of anarcho syndicalism, Maoism and Marxist-Leninism.
No.5197
>>5127>male is the equivalent of plants and the female is the equivalent of animalsSounds like some (third-wave) feminist propaganda… or a floraphile's wet-dream… Still and interesting concept.
>anarcho syndicalism, Maoism and Marxist-Leninism.The last two make sense, but how would that work with literal anarchism?
Also the female looks distinctly like an alien I drew as a child in my notebook during school, maybe some kid in class stole my idea.
>>5123Cool stuff
>>4905Citation? Though I don't doubt it is likely a real sentiment of Orson Welles'
No.5201
>>5197Nah, the creator seems not that much even into the political scene as his knowledge in the subject is pretty limited.
Some tidbits about the Planters politics:
Cascade
>Despite being a country made through warfare, Cascade is one of the most peaceful of the current superpowers of Tungsten Heart. Two hundred years prior to modern times, the first Cascadians, two medium sized nations that had been rivals, joined together in an alliance and forcibly annexed or pushed out any other nation living around the Cascade Sea. Those who resisted often ended up giving up the futile attempt after seeing how well the annexed subjects were treated- the Cascadians’ terms were generous towards those they conquered, and anyone who embraced their government became full members of the country. The remaining dissidents were eventually defeated and those not killed fled across the lands, mostly ending up as refugees in the Fountain Bloc. >Compared to other Planter countries, Cascade is very centralized and has a government based around delegation of duties- meaning they have roles reminiscent of what humans would call governors, mayors, or other such things. Many Planter ideologies see the idea of one Planter having some form of authority over others as downright tyrannical, but as Planter countries grow in size and population, many are finding such practices to be required for stable, united countries to exist. >Cascadians, while accepting such ideas as delegated leadership, are still very communal and group-based in their way of thinking. Groups of Cascadians who are close with each other will often share a group name and introduce themselves as such, often living out their entire lives within arm’s distance of each other and sharing a place of residence. Fountain Bloc
>Fountain is an alliance of conglomerated smaller states that follow a consensus-based method of governance, where they try to follow the will of the majority of the people, with big issues voted on directly. Most Planter nations hold no value in societal constructs such as written concrete laws and prefer to handle transgressions on a case-by-case basis. Humans may find this to be a risky move with mob-justice running rampant, but Planters have an extremely low rate of infighting and domestic crime, so it is generally a non-issue. >Consensus-based governance does have its issues, however. Compared to a country like Cascade, the Fountainites can be sluggish in rallying their people behind common causes. They may find issues in responding to natural disasters or other crises such as outbreaks. >The Fountainites and Cascadians have had a long-running rivalry since the unification wars in Cascade due to the Fountainites supporting the anti-unification factions of old Cascade. Since Cascade was unified, the Fountainites have been in a semi-cold war with occasional skirmishes between their militaries and various proxy wars, mostly involving the Central Bulwark nations and the people living around Buffer Lake and the Basin. Path Confederation
>Path’s form of governance is somewhere between Fountain and Cascade’s, with some regional delegated leadership but no centralized federal leadership.>While Fountain and Cascade are locked in a continuous conflict with each other, the people of Path are in a constant war against the smaller nations of the Turbid Zone and the Savanna Bulwark. No.5203
>>5123I'm really the only one who picked B, E and H? Have some imagination, guys. We have no fucking idea what's out there. Space is immense beyond our comprehension, the possibilities are almost infinite.
What is unfortunate is that humanity will probably never know.
Think of how extraordinary any alien that was able to physically come into contact with humanity would be. They would have to not only posses the intelligence required to traverse such large distances of space, which by itself is so inhuman
(space is VERY anti-human) and a feat that may only exist as fiction to us until our extinction, but they would also have to be remarkably lucky, or with technology so advanced that their scanning sensors make them nearly omnipotent with how well they can detect things across the enormity of space. They would then have to happen across us at the right time. Humans have only been on this planet for 1/20000th of its existence, and have only been civilized for 1/500000th of it.
A species that incredible would have to be something like the Q, without the wit and charm, probably more indifferent to us than anything. We would be like amoeba to them, or perhaps a human mind would go mad trying to comprehend any communication with them. So it will probably never happen, and we will never have qt tesseract-headed quasar alien waifus.
No.5211
>>5123The answer is G at least for the Milky Way, if it wasn’t they would likely parked a spaceship on Earth by now.
No.5212
>>5211>they would likely parked a spaceship on Earth by now.What makes you arrive at the conclusion that this possibility is high, considering the math in this post
>>5203?
Also your statement assumes that the only (sentient?) beings that exist in the Milky Way are ones that are capable of traveling to anywhere within the Milly Way. It's a false assumption, because humanity would be an exception.
No.5213
>>5203I went for ACD. H is sort of co-out which is why I didn't go with it and B is a bit cliche'd not to mention grey aliens are relatively humanoid.
>beyond our comprehension, the possibilities are almost infinite.Well not quite infinite, however very high in terms of variability. Star Trek explored a lot of ideas in terms of alternate life, like a giant cloud of anti-matter being conscious, or crystalline and energy-based beings.
>>5211>would likely parked a spaceship on Earth by nowWho's to say they haven't? X-Files may have been fiction but it certainly posed some real possibilities. And besides as
>>5212 said, there is evidence of planets capable of supporting life in the Milky Way easily, its just that we don't know any more because probes have to be sent to confirm… Venus might have life, but little is known about that because of the density of the atmosphere and its likely non-sentient.
https://www.rt.com/news/alien-life-on-venus-485/>>5201A cool concept but not worth much until you can put it into some literature, rather than a dry description.
No.5217
Reminder that Star Trek has Posadist themes
>Eugenics Wars involve nuclear exchange>discovering warp drive leads to contact with ayy lmaos>dolphins are part of the starship crew
>In the midst of the worldwide worker and student uprisings in 1968, the Argentine Trotskyist leader known as J. Posadas wrote an essay proposing solidarity between the working class and the alien visitors. He argued that their technological advancement indicated they would be socialists and could deliver us the technology to free Earth from the grip of Yankee imperialism and the bureaucratic workers’ states.>Such views were less fringe and more influential than you might think. Beginning in 1966, the plot of “Star Trek” closely followed Posadas’s propositions. After a nuclear third world war (which Posadas also believed would lead to socialist revolution), Vulcan aliens visit Earth, welcoming them into a galactic federation and delivering replicator technology that would abolish scarcity. Humans soon unify as a species, formally abolishing money and all hierarchies of race, gender and class.https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/24/opinion/make-it-so-star-trek-and-its-debt-to-revolutionary-socialism.html (
http://archive.li/pQjLH)
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/ufos-dolphins-nuclear-war-and-communism-the-stranger-than-sci-fi-political-party Star Trek had repeated mentions and concept art of Dolphin Ops, taking inspiration from various sources such as Gunbuster.
https://forgottentrek.com/where-do-i-find-the-dolphins/ Unfortunately, they never actually appear in the show due to budgetary restraints, but in a couple of episodes you can see a sign on a door indicating Cetacean Ops (cleverly utilizing the scientific genus for the label). Also the plot of Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home centers around time travel to save the whales, who are the only ones that can understand an alien probe.
This conceptualization of dolphin-human relations is predated by other 60s concepts with Dolphin scientists, for example Larry Niven's WORLD OF PTAVVS (1965). Ironically Larry Kniven's Kzinti (anthro-feline aliens) were integrated into the Star Trek verse as distant cousins of the Caitians, similar to how the Romulans relate to the Vulcans.
The novelized idea of the intelligence of whales appeared prominently in "The Deep Range," a 1954 short story expanded into 1957 novel THE DEEP RANGE, by Arthur C Clark, exanded further with his following novel, Dolphin Island.
This was around the time John C Lilly began his famed experiments in Delphine intelligence (something that lended itself to the creation of shows like Flipper and SeaQuest coming out). In 1987 Doug Michels of the architecture colabo Ant Farm worked on a human/dolphin space station concept called Bluestar.
https://greg.org/archive/2010/06/01/cue-the-dolphin-embassy.htmlA more recent sentient-dolphin/whale fic from 2003, is Fluke by Christopher Moore… a very
interesting book of rather interesting concepts and good humor.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/33441.FlukeOf course it would be lax to omit the beloved Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy and their hyper-intelligent dolphins:
https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/DolphinsBack to Star Trek; It was Niven's work which clearly inspired Rick Sternbach who in 1985 illustrated the reprint of Ptavvs and 2 years later was the Senior illustrator and technical consultant of TNG. In 1996 He would be the lead author of the TNG Blueprints release.
Interestingly this biped-aquatic relationship is shared even more closely by an alien civilization, the Xindi.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Xindi-AquaticNow, considering how much nostalgia-baiting and dead-horse-beating and other rubbish plagueing Discovery and Picard, an interesting idea would be to have Dolphin Trek, at least an episode which is entirely from the perspective of the Cetacean Ops crew. Perhaps even describe Dolphin-Human or Dolphin-alien interactions; friendships, differences, relationships etc. Of course this is unlikely to occur for the same reason cat-grills won't (see
>>2195).
No.5222
>>5213>A cool concept but not worth much until you can put it into some literature, rather than a dry description.Wonder what happened to the anon with the Last Revolution world building thread back on /leftypol/. That was some good fun.
>>5203I think most aliens would just be wildly different but also extremely similar in that they would also gaze up into to stars to wonder what’s out there just to be stuck on their planets or wipe themselves out with the greatest filter of all that is capitalism.
No.5225
Apparently, according to the Galaxy class deck blueprints, as shown on Memory Alpha, Deck 36 houses a "Droid Maintenance" room. A series of convention notes from Rick Sternbach's panel at AnimeCon '91 also mentions it:
Going into the bowels of the ship, you will eventually find a door marked DROID MAINTENANCE…The Constitution class Enterprise NCC-1701 did have DOT-7 droids which deployed through portholes in the hull to conduct underway hull maintenance. These have been mentioned in several comic books however we did not see them on screen until Star Trek: Discovery Such Sweet Sorrow. This detail is one of the few good ones introduced by Dscovery, although it is clear they ripped off the designs and scene from The astro-droid repair scene in Phantom Menace.
Pic related is the aforementioned scene featuring DOT-7 Droids performing maintenance. Pic 2 is the Phantom Menace scene.
NCC-1701-D was a self-cleaning ship which likely used robots but they were never seen. According to First Officer Riker:
- BRENNA: Men! Always talking when there's work to be done. And shouldn't you be flying this ship, or whatever it is you do?
- RIKER: Sir, I think I'll stay and give her some help.
(Picard and Worf leave. Riker goes to where Brenna is using hay to clean up what animals leave lying around naturally)
- RIKER: That isn't necessary. The ship will clean itself.
- BRENNA: Well, good for the bloody ship. (long pause as she appraises him) Tell me, Commander Riker, where does a girl go to wash her feet on this ship?
Droids have rarely been featured on screen, and like most custodial workers they simply conduct their maintenance after the work day is done so they don’t disrupt the crew.
Sources:
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Galaxy_class_decks http://stng.36el.com/st-tng/trivia/convention_notes.html https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/DOT-7 No.5229
>>5213nice pic
japan seems so obsessed with their zeta greys with inches of makeup
No.5235
>>5212>beings that exist in the Milky Way are ones that are capable of traveling to anywhere within the Milly Way. for an advanced civilization sending a probe to different stars isn’t hard, just time consuming, and they would have all the time in the world.
No.5236
>>5235>for an advanced civilizationThis is assuming they are advanced though, nobody said the life in the Milky-Way HAD to be space-faring or even borderline space exploring like us. Hell even non-sentient life counts.
H - covers anything including bacterial colonies and space-animals or plants
E - covers downright celestial entities that we may not recognize as life-forms and may in turn not recognize us as life-forms or bother visiting us
A/B/C all assumes highly advanced aliens which would likely have ways of reaching and discretely surveying this planet
F - is Event Horizon 2.0
D - assumes similar to A,B and C or on the other hand assumes something like our current humanity, where proper probes are barely reaching the rims of our solar system.
Our sheer lack of intimate knowledge of our own Solar System (let alone the entire Milky Way) allows for anything outside of G quite easily.
>inb4 G specifying intelligent lifeIntelligent =/= sentient.
>>5229Yeah their Roswell grays are something unique.
No.5279
(A Reposted Edited Compilation)
I'm tired of arguing with imbeciles that think any product of capitalism = a capitalist product. Writers are artists, and artists can express dissent within the system they inhabit. Some of you might be inclined to accuse of letting consumerism blend into ideology, but I think it's important to understand the sheer importance of fiction as a means of ideology. Like a lot of kids from the late 90s-2000's I used to watch Star Trek: Next Generation's old re-runs on the syndicated channels that would run it throughout the night. I used to spend every other week at my more comfortable grandparent's home out in the country because my mother couldn't afford to feed me 2 weeks in a row (I'm not saying this for any measure of sympathy, but for context on how NextGen helped create a system of values that appealed to my situation).
One of the things that struck me about TNG is the honesty, openness, and trust with which the Enterprise is run. There is no reason to be selfish, so people are just not selfish. And also everyone has their role, and even though there is a hierarchy, nobody is treated as a lesser. The conflicts between the characters tend to be very non-toxic. An example (rather overhated in the fandom) is Wesley Crusher, a
cuteboy genius but he never really rubs it on anyone's face. When he took the test for the academy in season 1, the whole thing was very non-competitive. So much so that he ends up helping the blue waffle alien win.
I could go on for a while about what was special about NextGen, but to save time I'll just say it's one of the reasons I became interested in Marx, Lenin and the rest, it was useful. Obviously after the mental deterioration of actual-communist Gene Roddenberry and the network coup under Rick Berman, the franchise declined back into precisely what it was a critique of: Last Man Visions of the Future. Nowhere is this more evident than modern trek: a thinly disguised action-series that falls for every trope, implies the existence of money in a post-scarcity earth, and the use of an underclass of slave androids that were proved sentient back in NextGen. It's the vision of a future that only progresses insofar that it achieves a flashier setting, but human society and culture remains as barbaric and retarded as before. like a typical cyberpunk series. Star Trek originally was one of the few things to come out of Western popular culture that rejected TINA (There Is No Alternative) and futurist 'capitalist realism' themes. The genuine curiosity of the characters, the commitment to life, to science, to friendship, display truly liberated humans, who achieve this and yet retain their humanity.
Sadly shows with this kind of vision of the future are always an outlier and often hobbled by the problems of going against the current. Television is the art form that functions most like the factory, or perhaps the office, it's not very surprising that it would tend toward capitalist propaganda naturally. And the longer a franchise goes on the higher the likelihood of it reverting to the mean. Moreover the original TOS posed itself with Federation vs the Klingon which was an allusion to the USA and USSR.
There's also the reason Star Trek flourished during the darkest years of the Cold War and neoliberalism. It presents the idea of a peaceful, post-scarcity utopia without considering how it came to be. Because Star Trek conspicuously leaves out the most important idea of Marx: the idea of the proletariat as the revolutionary subject of modern history. Without this, any 'radical' message the shows could offer is sufficiently defused and it's permissible to show on network television. Of course given the futurism it is clearly not going to be set in revolutionary or immediate-post-revolutionary times, however this is still a major reason why the parallels to communism are not immediate in many people's minds. In-universe, they abolished the Law of Value by abolishing labor as the source of all value through replicators, obviously a bit different from our reality, which is why Star Trek was never revolutionary but it was definitely progressive.
Clearly Trek is lost to the ghoulish pinheads that don't give a damn about a vision for human achievement, because they don't get any schmeckels.
The point is, that shows like Star Trek are important to help people envision a future that isn't just a flashier, spacier, capitalism, but rather to face that history moves in stages, and that by no means should this be our final vision for the collective project we all share. Regardless of how actually productive it is; Fiction has demonstrated that it's one of the best vehicles for ideological conversion, so what fictional narratives are like OldTrek and have the potential to inspire on the same level? How do we create narratives that are popular enough to shatter the Last Man vision of the future? These are the questions we must ask when we create media that is ideologically vetted and must be created while focusing on values, freedom, self-fulfillment and other positive growth instead of NuTrek "lol im gay in space" liberalism that the new creators seem adamant at pushing.
However We should not be sad Trek has been put in the ground, but be glad it happened at all and carry its messages in our hearts and minds. As to sources of new visions, turn to books or other arts with low capital intensity. Less capitalist incentives, higher chance of intelligent outliers.
PS.
>Last Man Visions of the FutureWhat does "Last Man visions of the future" mean? It is the concept of mankind being able to envision society advancing in technology, but practically everything else remains the same, and the Liberal Capitalist Democracy is the final structure of human society. When you really go back to classic Western sci-fi you read, almost all of them imagine wild futures with awesome technology and completely alien future cultures. And yet for some inexplicable reason neoliberal capitalism still remains as the only way forward. Take this one shitty story for example. Biological immortality and world peace has been achieved, improbable FLT tech allows everyone to travel the stars, and scarcity is a thing of the past. But somehow all of this started with neoliberal capitalism making everything better with author fiats.
https://robinhanson.typepad.com/files/three-worlds-collide.pdf>Akon's eyes slid away from the hot gaze of the unmixed man; there was something wrong about the thread of anger still there in the memory after five hundred years.>"But time passed," the Confessor said, "time moved forward, and things changed." The eyes were no longer focused on Akon, looking now at something far away. "There was an old saying, to the effect that while someone with a single bee sting will pay much for a remedy, to someone with five bee stings, removing just one sting seems less attractive. That was humanity in the ancient days. There was so much wrong with the world that the small resources of altruism were splintered among ten thousand urgent charities, and none of it ever seemed to go anywhere. And yet… and yet…">"There was a threshold crossed somewhere," said the Confessor, "without a single apocalypse to mark it. Fewer wars. Less starvation. Better technology. The economy kept growing. People had more resource to spare for charity, and the altruists had fewer and fewer causes to choose from. They came even to me, in my time, and rescued me. Earth cleaned itself up, and whenever something threatened to go drastically wrong again, the whole attention of the planet turned in that direction and took care of it. Humanity finally got its act together."Most fiction works never address how this “threshold” even is, somehow capitalism was able to go forward without ever solving its internal contractions and future is magically achieved. We must always be mindful of this pitfall.
No.5282
What is your personal take on the Prime Directive from a leftist stance?
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Prime_DirectiveInteresting articles on the matter
http://archive.is/bgGLPhttp://www.letswatchstartrek.com/2013/08/20/when-the-prime-directive-is-wrong-by-matt-sheean/Ironically an episode of The Orville also demonstrates an example of why violating this may be a poor idea.
https://orville.fandom.com/wiki/Mad_IdolatryAs a side note in reference to the conversation caused by
>>5123 , perhaps a concept like the Prime Directive, is why advanced alien races do not interact with us and hide their presence? If so, it halts Posadist thought and some of its hopes for dolphins
>>5217 No.5290
>>5282It's non-interventionist which is good, and we've seen in
Who Watches the Watchers? that when a space-faring civilization meets a bronze age civilization, the result is a cargo cult. Cargo cults are bad because they're often used by charismatic religious leaders to be exploited.
My personal gripe with the Prime Directive is that the threshold - warp capability - seems really arbitrary. Why warp capability? I believe a late-capitalist society like ours would be able to deal with the existential identity crisis an alien arrival would cause. I mean fuck, we are running SETI programs wanting to find aliens. Plus, when the Vulcans came down after the flight of the Phoenix, the world was absolute desolate, yet the arrival meant an unparalleled success story for humanity. So suddenly humanity is "ready" because some guy in Arizona discovered a new technology? Seems to me Star Trek is often more Hegelian than it is Marxist - history is viewed as the dialectical progression of ideas rather than material conditions (I mean, late capitalism was more civilized than the Mad Max shit the world was in during and after the Eugenic Wars).
No.5291
Also, does anybody know if Posadas was actually known amongst sci-fi writers of the 70s and 80s? It feels like something a geeky sci-fi writers of that time would have heard of, and the arrival of the Vulcans and the events that followed in First Contact was incredibly Posadist.
No.5295
>>5290>a late-capitalist society like ours would be able to deal with the existential identity crisisThe identity crisis isn't the issue with LSC, but the inability to understand a more advanced civilization's mindset.
In The Orville we see an example of this with an alien planet that has a SETI-like program and the Orville crew goes to respond, except they lack the level of development to cast aside foolish beliefs. Moreover, porky would seek to do what with aliens? Exploit them and exploit their knowledge and it would just cause a cyberpunk dystopia.
>more Hegelian than it is MarxistMaybe.
>>5291You can start with
>>5217 No.5337
>>5282The novel Hard To Be a God by the Strugatsky brothers handled this position pretty well in my opinion. It set in the Noon universe where the Soviet Union won the Cold War and went on to become a more interventionist version of the federation. Most under developed worlds are seeded with agents to accelerate it’s development toward communism at which point formal first contact will be made. In the story the agent rather than try it with a materialist way, attempt to create a socialist revolution in a world only in feudalism and failed.
No.5364
>>5282>What is your personal take on the Prime Directive from a leftist stance?The idea is that you don't want to interfere with a civilization's development and be imperialist or something. On paper that sounds alright but in practice what's the difference between the federation wiping out a culture on a planet and one culture wiping out another on the same planet? If you really took the core concept to its logical conclusion the Federation would be intervening constantly to prevent genocide. But then again in the Star Trek universe every species appears to have a monoculture pretty much which is actually not terribly unrealistic if nobody stops genocides and so on.
No.5367
>>5282Prime Directive is unethical and immoral.
In many instances just downright fucked up.
https://files.catbox.moe/z07plc.mp4And who's to say the ayyz have not visited us yet? who's to say we weren't created and uplifted by ayy?
Many theistic beliefs could be fabrications of ancient interactions humanity may have had with higher lifeforms.
No.5368
>>5290>So suddenly humanity is "ready" because some guy in Arizona discovered a new technology?Yeah this, it's just fucked something fairly specific must happen for a species to be "worthy" of contact and help from higher space-faring races. Something only we humans made up, and view through our own perception of the universe and how things work. It's always as if we're doing exactly what the prime directive tries to prevent, and that's negatively effecting developing civs. Again, who's to say we weren't helped? Even in the trek universe we were by the Vulcans as you stated. So if there was a race in need, or a race we came across that could use a boost in the "right" direction, we'd just let them destroy themselves and their own world? Or just suffer as we scratch our balls and sit on our ivory towers making pisspoor judgments on who is "worthy" of our aid and knowledge? C'mon. Some "developing" civs could have even "chose" to stay on their world and not travel the cosmos. The federation would probably agree to leave such a world be. A world where many WANT to travel the cosmos, meet other sapient life and be free. WE could be in such a world RIGHT now and not even truly know it. So must we damn another civilization an eternity trapped in this small prison world because some batshit elites that wanted full control over their whole world deemed it so? I certainly want out
No.5375
>>5364>constantly to prevent genocide>>5367>Prime Directive is unethical and immoralI disagree. The entire point is that the Federation is not god and cannot play at god by intervening you prevent the flow of dialectical materialism and is progression
>who's to say we weren't created and uplifted by ayy? I doubt that, as there is little evidence to this fact Moreover their possible visitations do not seemed to have made feudalism end quicker or capitalism reach socialism faster. You all assume that alien life will not be hostile to us or view us as sentient beings and not clever animals.
>picEveryone knows Enterprise was not particularly a good series of Star Trek; good ideas executed poorly. Moreover Enterprise is set in the 22nd century, when Warp-travel was only created and humanity was still creating the rules of space-travel and exploration
>>5290>>5368>humanity is "ready" because some guy in Arizona discovered a new technologyVulcan 'prime directive' is NOT the same as the general Federation policy. And Warp Technology is not the only factor, do actually READ the memory-alpha page.
>>5337>The novel Hard To Be a God by the Strugatsky brothersYes they did do an interesting concept on it, however their subsequent film was trash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcSPyrfoCRk No.5384
>>5375>The entire point is that the Federation is not god and cannot play at god Anon, """god""" is a human construct, a specific construct made by the hominid the follow one of the abrahamic faiths. You are choosing to leave less advanced worlds be because of your own beliefs, this is a paradox. Btw, what do you think is meant when we say humans were helped by "aliens" ? What do you think aliens are in this context?
No.5385
>>5375>however their subsequent film was trashNo shit. Most of their work post-Soviet are.
No.5386
>>5384>a specific construct made by the hominid the follow one of the abrahamic faithsNope. Abrahamic god is called Yahweh. God is an English word with an etymology spanning centuries but the definition of which is near universal to the religions, faiths and ideas of people the world over. The idea of god would not be unusual to a different sapient race given the origin of gods and mythology in the first place - culture and history passed down orally for centuries until society evolves to the point of accurate historic recording rather than legends. This is part of dialectical progression. Culture is made up of its legends and mythology as much as its science and technology. How this relates to the Prime Directive is demonstrated in the afore mentioned Orville episode Mad Idolatry
>>5282>its a conceptNo shit, it is a metaphysical concept of a being that is above humans in ability and mind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conceptions_of_God The idea of a human being godly is ridiculous because it is a concept of perfection over humans. This is the lesson of both futuristic and past and fantasy literature and film, that no man can play god without abandoning their humanity, in which case they are no longer human, like Dr.Manhattan from Watchen. in Star Trek Q is a god-like being who can intervene in time, history and dimensions because he generally has the omnipotence and omniscience to do so with little risk to the universe. Just because the conventional human view on god and religion no longer holds them in the same capacity as they did in the past, does not make the classification or definitions and lessons invalid.
>You are choosing to leave less advanced worlds be because of your own beliefs, this is a paradoxNo it isn't, not believing in a god does not make something like god-complex disappear or the idea that acting rashly when you cannot assuredly control the variables is to be foolish. Star Trek demonstrates this numerous times, which is why Picard is so reluctant to do so, even if he does use loopholes when he can, he understands the consequences are unpredictable and are just as likely to worsen things as they re to improve them. You cannot take a venture like changing the path of history for a being unless you know that your meddling will not cause even greater loss. An exception would possibly be when a species is quite literally going to self-destruct.
>what do you think is meant when we say humans were helped by "aliens" ? >What do you think aliens are in this context?I understood that and I addressed it indirectly. If aliens did come to humanity in its distant past, what evidence do we have that it helped improve or speed up the progression of humanity? Unless you're implying that aliens created us, which does not have much basis considering how evolution works. It is nothing short of postulation regardless.
>>5385>Most of their work post-SovietYeah, unfortunately
No.5387
>>5386The idea of many if not most faiths being fabricated and telephoned versions of ancient alien interactions and encounters is not a new thing
Many even agree aliens are in fact beyond our imagination, even beyond this dimension; whatever that even means
I ask you, if you were a space faring race, and saw a meteor about to wipe out all life on an entire planet, or came across a planet with a new disease that would wipe out all life on it, would you save the planet(s) from absolute extension?
No.5390
>>5387>The idea of many if not most faiths being fabricated and telephoned versions of ancient alien interactions and encounters is not a new thingI know it is not, however we also do not have much evidence for it either. Religious legend telling is more likely to have earthly explanation than it is to have an alien one.
>Many even agree aliens are in fact beyond our imagination, even beyond this dimension; whatever that even meansA non sequitur that has no proof and throws doubt on the creativity and ingenuity of human-kind, which is frankly unlikely. Given that you dont know what it means, I think a more rational/logical explanation is more likely, Occams Razor and what-not.
>if you were a space faring race, and saw a meteor about to wipe out all life on an entire planet>came across a planet with a new disease that would wipe out all life on itRead the Prime Directive instead of just creating strawmen to talk shit about it. The Prime Directive's main point is to prevent meddling in the affairs of a Civlization, exceptions being made in certain cases.
Also a meteor striking a planet is an affair of planetary scale, and does not require revealing ones-self to the world to interfere with that.
No.5392
>>5390>stop creating strawmanReally isn't.
Btw Phlox and Archer did commit genocide whether you like it or not.
>Also a meteor striking a planet is an affair of planetary scale, and does not require revealing ones-self to the world to interfere with that.So you would stop it then? Now what about the disease?
No.5397
>>5392>Really isn'tIt is. Read the actual Prime Directive linked.
>Phlox and ArcherYou refer to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dear_DoctorExcept you forget the Prime Directive did not exist at that point an neither does the Federation. Moreover the actual episode is controversial and was pressured into being rewritten by the producers. As said in the show, people are human and humans make mistakes.
>So you would stop it thenIf it were within our ability to prevent without revealing our presence to a premature civilization, then yes.
>DiseaseI don't know, would we be even able to treat it for sure? Is it surely untreatable? If they are hopeless in stopping this and thus condemned to extinction, than an intervention is (from my understanding of the Prime Directive), permissible, given that there is no harm in intervention as there are no worse possibilities we could cause to said lifeforms.
No.5399
>>5397>Except you forget the Prime Directive did not exist at that pointAll the more reason they committed genocide with no order to even do so
Not even sure why you brought up the prime directive there but okay
>If it were within our ability to prevent without revealing our presenceWhat if you could save all their lives, but, they would be fully aware of your vessel and physical appearances? What you help them?
No.5400
>>5399>All the more reasonAre you trying to ignore context or what?
>Not even sure why you brought up the prime directiveBecause that's what the discussion began with, if you just randomly mentioned Plox and Archer than you're just posting a random non-sequitur.
>What if you could save all their lives, but, they would be fully aware of your vessel and physical appearancesDepends on the sitch. Are they capable of stopping it themselves? Then no. If they cannot then it may be a risk to take. I personally would save them, but that is from the perspective of myself. As I have repeated many times, the Prime Directive has caveats and exceptions which make such discussion moot without a full-fleshed out situation, which has already been done multiple times in Star Trek.
No.5402
>more wall of text
c'mon man
No.5404
>>5402How does it feel to be illiterate? Jesus Christ if you want to be a leftist you must increase your attention span to at least half an hour.
No.5425
>>10443>>5402Please actually link to the posts you are replying to.
>>5404Kek, this but unironically. Although To be honest, there are only a few actual text-wall posts in the thread and they're thorough effort-posts.
No.5440
>>5392>Phlox and Archer did commit genocidebased I love Enterprise now.
No.5443
>>5440From a legal perspective, yes and no. You're only committing murder by negligence when you're their legal warrantor, e.g. your spouse, your student, your client, etc. - when the person is just a stranger, it's "just" failure to render assistance. The difference is pretty much reflected in the degree of penalty, murder gets you lifelong prison, failure to render assistance could get a few years in probation.
No.5519
Rewatching ENT: It's a Star Trek show with all that comes with it. It's a shame that it was cancelled after the genuinely strong season four, the Earth-Romulan War would have been the peak of the show.
No.5766
>>5279I hate it when people ignore effort posts
Sorry anon, I enjoyed reading it tho 🙂
No.5815
>>1863>That pic>That filenameNigga that's Darjeeling
No.5818
>>3657>At least I still have my Soviet Star Trek - like Noon series to finish reading. The what now?
No.6336
>>2196>>2217Speaking of fetishes Star Trek's malleability in regards to bending the laws of science has made it perfect for those kinds of explorations, and Star Trek has never shied away from lewd situations, with numerous episodes across the decades involving things from diseases that incite irrational thinking and lust, to energy beings that impregnate people with their consciousness, to alien sex-slavers, to cat-girls, to people trying to make their virtual waifus real, and lesbian kissing and sexy stretches.
So there is plenty of precedent for lewds and fetishes as well as plenty of transport shenanigans.
Given this, how would you incorporate your fetish into a Star Trek episode and do it subtly enough for it to air on television? What concepts and ideas would you like to see the show explore?
In my case something interesting to cover would be Lycanthropy (pic 1) - in other words becoming a werewolf (or any other were-creature).
- Perhaps its an alien adaptation by a species which hunts at night and rests and does more mental activities during the day, transforming back and forth in synchronization.
- Or it could be a disease which ravages people and forces them to change according to a lunar cycle, and that it becomes dangerous if not kept closely scheduled; a crew stranded on an alien planet without communication and/or proper chronometery would have to rely on their personal bonds and knowledge to deal with this problem in one of their fellow crewmen.
This idea of course comes with the stereotypical animal behaviors and body features, among other stuff that gets fetishized to that purpose.
the furries win again After all, the idea of an alien Werewolf isn't new either, with a prominent example being Loboans from Ben 10.
https://ben10.fandom.com/wiki/Loboan (pic 2)
No.6339
Seeing the Patrick Stewart talk calling him a sellout and wishing he had some integrity, I just wanna point out he never gave a shit. A bunch of the Picard only episodes in TNG happened because Patrick Stewart was bored of the show and said "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we made an episode where Picard got some pussy?" to the writers
No.6352
>>6339Do you have any sources for it? The actors always seemed very conscious they were in a cheap, naive space opera after all (and I really like TNG). They seem sincere in conventions though, maybe it's a proof they are great actors.
No.6358
>>6352There was a bunch of info and sources for the episodes in question on the Star Trek wiki three years ago, I checked the episode page I thought it was on but the info isn't there.
No.6359
>>6352>>6358Finally found it! It's the third bullet point here, I remember seeing something along these lines on a couple other episodes too.
No.6382
>>6360>>6359It's ok, no need to sage, it happens to all of us.
>>5818>>3657>>3660>Soviet star trekPic related.
As a side note references to the USSR were pretty common in Star Trek, though with the advent of Gorbachev it got pretty liberal.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Union_of_Soviet_Socialist_RepublicsThey also named a bunch of star-ships after Soviet cosmonauts and rocket scientists like Gagarin and Tsiolkovsky
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/SS_Tsiolkovskyhttps://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Gagarin No.6683
>>5217Speaking of dolphins in space, a rather unkown anime featuring this is 2004's Mars Daybreak, a single season, 26 episode series where in the far future, Mars is terraformed into a giant Oceanic planet with mechanical lifeforms, intelligent animals and various humans. The story is rather dystopian yet still full of interesting technology and ideas and had plausibility of some kind while still allowing for a fantasy. One of the characters involved is a Dolphin in a large mechanical powersuit named Poipoider, who handles the BFGs of the pirate crew he's on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Daybreak https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Anime/MarsDaybreakIt's made by Bones studio and produced by Masahiko Minami of Cowboy Bebop and Space Dandy.
As a side note here is a list of many (if not all) Space Cetaceans in media:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SapientCetaceans No.6684
>>5766Thanks, frankly, since it was more of a compilation of mine and other's ideas edited and reshaped from an old thread, I doubted it would be responded to really. It was more of a "For Your Informtion".
No.6687
>>4094>>>4050>pic 1 relatedI meant to link to
>>4046>>5815>that's DarjeelingLooks more like Katyusha to me and I like her more. Fuck you.
No.6697
>>6683Not to derail, but on that:
>Mars DaybreakA weird but fun anime of which I wished to see more of the world (such as this pan-galactic war, which seems to have been a Mecha-fight).
It also reminds me of an anime about Submarine 'Pirates' called Tide-Line Blue but which is on an post apocalyptic earth where most of the world is flooded after an unknown global event called Eden's Hammer that causes a biblical-tier flood. Unfortunately it lacks any sapient-cetaceans. As a side note it has a rather interesting human design, reminiscent of Avatar the Last Airbender.
Another similar one is Blue Submarine No. 6 which also takes place on earth however it is flooded by a 'mad-man' and his army of strange biological ship creatures and anthro-fish people. Its also post-apocalyptic.
http://www.craiglotter.co.za/2012/07/26/my-opinion-download-blue-submarine-no-6-2000/Now while I haven't seen this yet, judging clips and plot summaries I reckon Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet ALSO holds similarity, and it features strange intelligent squid aliens instead.
http://archive.is/9f54c No.6746
NEW STAR TREK SHOW FUCKING LMAO 🤣 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
https://youtu.be/V3RkBKedKWw No.6747
>>6746That looks like fun, a bit like space janitors
https://invidio.us/watch?v=FxuT_r9rCeA No.6798
>>6746Shit I was just going to post about that. Honestly its like they mashed a really good Star Trek cartoon with a Rick and Morty parody episode I swear.
To repost a good analysis on the matter, "
The problem with the animation isn’t that it’s horrible, it’s that it’s stylistically inconsistent. The starships and backgrounds are gorgeous and generally realistic; the people are drawn as caricatures. This is (a) jarring to the eye, and (b) a design choice that appears to be in line with the character of the humor. And the character of the humor appears to be of the “let’s make the characters look and act (relatively) stupid” school that has been dominating animated comedy for the past two decades or so."
Its a sort-of funny space adventure cartoon… but its not really Star Trek. Also the main character - judging by the trailer/image - (the black girl) is the least interesting character shown, yet she's the spotlight along with her white "sidekick". She's obnoxious and dangerous (nearly frying her 'friend' with a Phaser set to KILL, yet lacking any defining quirks. Even her 'sidekick' (unironically named [b]Boi[/b]mler FFS) has more intrigue, with his dream to be a captain, something she laughs at. Like I get it, this is a kid's cartoon, but this is Teen Titan's Go tier "humor". The upper-deck officers/crew also behave like utter assholes with no respect for fellow crew-mates and unprofessional denigration of their position at the lower-decks. This is all in marked contrast to the other main cast; The short-haired Orion girl Tendi* shows promise in her excitedly innocent behaviour, the old cat-doctor also seems to have a grumpy-wise-guy-who-cares trope, and the other characters seem to be to have their own quirks and abilities at least, so hopefully they won't be too one-dimensional with them.
Also FFS they named the Captain "Freeman" and the Commander "Ransom" and the Main Character I was talking about? "Mariner"… This is like a parody of G.I. Joe names. And Tendi… for fucks sake the 'chicken tendy' meme has been dead for years.
No.6799
>>6798>the main character<Mariner
Just to add, the authors had this to say, she's,
"very good at all things Starfleet, she just doesn’t care (and has been demoted several times)… just wants to ride her skateboard and eat her piece of pizza in peace, man"Like ok, fine you like skateboarding in pizza, then fine, but what the fuck was the point of becoming a crewman? Or accepting promotions in the first-place? She's clearly not old enough to be the kind of person to rise in the ranks before a mid-life crisis, money and living expenses are not an issue in Star Trek, and it's shown that a lot of people on board such vessels are just passengers or residents, not actual crew. This is the kind of lackadaisical characterization that breaks the story, since this is behaviour that teens relate to TODAY, not centuries in the federation's future. And this "she's really good at everything, but people don;t like her 'risks'" is the most cliche Mary Sue shite. Its not nearly as bad as other Mary Sues of the past 3-5 years, but it certainly is shit nonetheless.
Rutheford and Boimler on the other hand are actually Star Trek characters. The latter is good at the theory, but is crap at practical application and thinking outside the box which he needs to get to his dream of Captain. The Former is already an officer and with talent, but lacking experience needed to solve some problems, a Geordi la Forge, beginner version. The name Rutheford is also an ironic nod to Rutheford.
No.6812
>>6799>Or accepting promotions in the first-place?Why did Kirk keep "accepting" "promotions" to Admiral only to steal an Enterprise and go hotrodding around and get "demoted" to Captain again? Star Fleet was always incoherent like that, forcing wild children up above where they wanted to be and reaping the consequences.
No.6813
>>68121) As I carefully pointed out, 'Mariner' is unlikely to be older than 25. Kirk on the other hand was a middle-aged man who heard the possiblity that a best friend may be revived and among the living again, prompting irrational HUMAN action. Very different things. Kirk never sat in a boarding shuttle and fucked around with ray-shields while chanting like an idiot, or carried weapons in storage bins with the lid open and leaving it unattended to go piss off a 'friend' by mocking them cruelly and trying to take their belongings.
2) Star Fleet did not do this constantly, and a demotion was considered serious and thus the actions done at risk of demotion was weighted and serious. We can understand this with Kirk, his human side over-ruled his allegiance to Star Fleet and he pursued it, even if legally he violated his position. Mariner just acts like an idiot for the lulz.
>>6811BTW CBS has been flagging all videos and blogs that critisize their shit and shutdown comments under the new Lower Decks trailer. Such shit.
No.6814
>>6813>BTW CBS has been flagging all videos and blogs that critisize their shit and shutdown comments under the new Lower Decks trailer. Such shit.Was thinking of reniewing my membership just to see this shitshow anyway, but you know what? I'm done
No.6820
>>6814Just stream it for free dude
There’s a 100% chance it’ll be on KissCartoon or something when it comes out
No.6821
>>6798i want to fuck that cat
No.6822
>>6746This is so 100% ripped off from Rick and Morty, even the animation style is the same. Is Kurtzman and CBS only capable of stealing? The plot for Picard was completely stolen mostly from Mass Effect, and now this is stolen too.
No.6890
>>6822May even be on Netflix anyway
But seriously, the CBS streaming app is ass
No.6894
Critical Drinker covered it recently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctHFNIhitTk >>6890Netflix and just about all other major streaming services refused to air it… the like to dislike ratio was 1:4 prior to being hidden.
>>6822Stealing is their bread and butter m8, having original ideas is like garlic for vampires with them.
>>6747More like a shitty Future Space TBH
No.6922
>>5282Speaking of Prime Directive:
What is the worst violation of Prime Directive and why?
Does it outright defy the directive?
Was the violation for a poor reason?
Were the consequences of the violation justifiable?
A given example of a low-level violation that can be seen as justifiable is in Star Trek TOS "A Taste of Armageddon":
Kirk finds a society that wages war via computer simulation, where casualties are calculated, and victims voluntary are vaporized so that their cities are not decimated with real bombs. Kirk destroys the simulator, and tells the race that if they want to fight it must be with real bombs. He justifies this as not being a Prime Directive violation because the Prime Directive only applies to developing civilizations, and that he did not think that the race was developing anymore. They were clearly fairly advanced of a civilization, and he didn't give them something so much as (temporarily) destroy their simulator. You could argue that while he gave them a kick, if they really want to go back to their existing way of life, they do have the technology to build another computer to run the simulation fairly easily.
No.6927
>>6925Artstyle not animation. The animation is better, but at the cost o noodle limbs, lack of 'depth'/shading and style. Given that modern animation and animation tools make it afr easier to animate than it was back in the 60s, 70s and 80s, the toonboom style is inexcusably lazy.
No.6929
>>6927Was there a 90s Star Trek animated series?
Would've been perfect if budget was the issue, since TNG was so well received
Surprised budget was an issue at all when TOS came out
No.6949
>>6929>90s Star Trek animatedNot to my knowledge, and CBS and other Post-Roddenberry Star Trek (investors/owners) have been excessively pedantic at copy-righting Trek and preventing publication of fanfilms.
>Surprised budget was an issue at all when TOS came outNot really that surprising, like the original Doctor Who, it was a cheap sci-fi show for TV entertainment, that Roddenberry had enough freedom with to insert his idealisms. Budgets of movies and TV were very low back then, Planet of the Apes was 5.8 million dollars and that was a lot of money for a movie back then (1968).
>>6683https://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/8771659 A good summary of show characters
No.6990
What's your favorite episode? Mine is probably an unusual choice, Call to Arms from DS9, when the Dominion War breaks out. There is an unbelievable tension and a sense of doom over the entire episode that has been building up over the second half of the season. This shit is more gloomy than all the grimdark shows that run nowadays, an atmosphere achieved with no big budgets, epic music or witty dialog, simply through slow-burning, engaging and realistic (!) storytelling and intriguing characters. You really feel how they've exhausted all means of diplomacy and political manoeuvring, you feel that now war will be coming, and you don't know how the Federation can actually win this.
No.7000
>>6991TNG gets better around series 3 and 4 and is pretty awful for the first series. The drunk episode is just because they copied the plot from a TOS episode while missing what made that one enjoyable.
No.7822
>>6991is that screenshot from the episode where they visit the horny aryan ethnostate?
No.7826
>>7822The one where they get executed for any crime and Wesley almost gets killed after stepping on some flowers. Not as good as the one where they go to the horny matriarchy where the moral at the end is to not execute people fighting against tyranny as that it will take longer for your blatantly unjust society to change.
No.7827
>>7810This is terrible. Strip the essence and just the aesthetics remain. What's the point of making a children's show that has nothing to do with star trek except being "in the same universe". Probably wanting for children to get hooked to star trek "fandom". You can tell there won't be any moral dilemmas, no "can Data have feelings?", no "we respect all lifeforms as equals", no "there are some things that are beyond our comprehension", no ironic or unironic 3d chess, no "cultures are different and multiculturalism is a bitch, but enlightened societies do all that's possible to make it work", etc.
Not that Star Trek is perfect in those regards, far from it IMO, but when it tries to do the above it is actually good.
No.7829
>>7827>Probably wanting for children to get hooked to star trek "fandom". This is 100% the answer, CBS are desperate to create a franchise they can milk similar to Marvel or Star Wars. So long as they make Star Trek purely for the sake of money instead of trying to portray and explore a better world it will continue to completely miss the mark.
No.7913
I never ever understood the prime directive
Now, back in the 60s when humanity knew they were a bad people I could understand not wanting to destroy other worlds obviously, and even then Kirk broke it in favor of saving lives because he isn't insane, but, nowadays, why would we even humor an idea? Who's to say we weren't engineered by higher lifeforms? Who's to say we aren't being protected by forces much much great than what we could ever hope to control? Who's to say we aren't already being helped in some way to one day finally break free of this world and explore the endless universe?
Why would it be okay to let other worlds die and not save them? Why would it be bad to save people from other worlds? What if we decided to not save and help other people from other parts Earth because they couldn't help themselves? What if they even have technically that could be useful for us? What if they chose to remain in their world? What if there's a group of elites anchoring the rest of their kin to their world? What if warmongering psychos are going to genocide the rest of the planet and become a warmongering space race like the Klingons or Cardassians just to terrorize other worlds? Does some rando in some random region of their own world accidentally discovering warp drive all of a sudden make their entire species worthy of interaction and assistance?
No.7914
>>7913I suggest you scroll up m80
>>5282and responses along the chain
>>5290 >>5375>>5386>>6922 No.7916
>>7913One of the recurring themes of prime directive episodes (especially in TOS) is that of unintended consequences. While quite often this was partially because they wanted to use gangster or nazi outfits they had left over the fundamental message was that you can't be sure how the society will react to being interfered with if you don't micromanage and you can't be sure that the micromanagers won't take it in a bad direction either.
Theres a TOS episode where the Klingons are interfering with a primitive world and giving the tribes they back advanced weaponry so that they will quickly unify and join the Klingon Empire and in the process of defending against it (Kirk could legally violate the prime directive up to the level the Klingons did) Kirk turns the peaceful group he was supporting into a far more warlike group as a result of arming them and he greatly regrets having to do that.
Theres a lot of episodes that explore the issues and strengths of the prime directive.
No.8692
>>5282>>5290 >>5375>>5386>>6922>>7913>>7916 As the show goes on longer it begins to have contradictions and issues. For example; Captain Picard Faces the Ramifications of Prime Directive S07E13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vweupyFB9XkTo quote Jarl Knudsen,
The Prime Directive, as originally intended, was about political non-interference. The Federation could make contact with, trade with, and otherwise interact with alien cultures, so long as they didn't meddle in their internal affairs. They could provide disaster relief, education, and even technological assistance - and even had digression to interfere in the case of arrested cultures, ie, the culture was not developing at all. See "Return of the Archons", "The Omega Glory", "Errand of Mercy", and "The Apple" for examples of this. In this way, the Prime Directive was a measured and well-considered reaction to European colonialism and especially to US foreign policy in the 20th century. Carried to an extreme, however, the non-interference policy became an impediment to the ideals of the show. So something as basic and morally praiseworthy as disaster relief now violates this newly exaggerated ethical code. A species could even be wiped from existence by an extinction-level event and with a straight face, this is considered the "natural course of evolution". Somehow the possibility that a primitive alien might gain knowledge of interstellar life is considered far worse than if that alien, and its entire species, is obliterated. Dwell on that for a second. In real life, it would be nearly miraculous to find alien life at all, and even more so to find complex and intelligent life. It would be a crime against science to no try to preserve that life should it face extinction, given how extremely rare and unique extra-terrestrial life is. The caveats and issues of this is that
- We have to take extreme care to not accidentally get Earth bacteria onto alien planets. Like mars, where we hope to find alien life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_contamination and in TNG there are numerous interplanetary diseases with no cure
- Civilizations that have reached the point of intergalactic space travel will likely be either completely non-interventionist, or just have utter disregard for individual, and species based morality and empathy over logic and calculations.*
*Even with advanced technology, it won't really be possible to predict the future with 100% certainty. This means if 'aliens' care for life, they aren't going to interfere, for fear of making things worse. So, what about an extinction level event you say? Well, the principle still applies. The universe is chaotic in nature, therefore you can never be sure of the ultimate outcome of any action. Imagine if 65 million years ago, aliens came and saw an asteroid coming here, and said "oh no, the dinosaurs will be toasted, let's save them for science!". Then we wouldn't be here and instead bird-people would be a possible civilization. Now, a universe with dinosaurs still here may not be any better, but who can say what's better. You would have to have an uncaring god-complex to do that. I believe that some aliens are likely to be at least a little bit benevolent, therefore will leave us alone. A tough policy, but ultimately you don't want to be playing god because you never know if your going to make things worse. It may not be easy to see or appreciate though, especially with a extinction event, but it's the ultimate humbling to admit you don't know what's best for life or the universe.
Then again, humanity changes and grows and our actions are in some ways he action of the universe, so who is to say that we cannot be part of the universe's changes. Otherwise, this utter die-hard non-intervention would mean that no action or non-action is right, which is bullshit reminiscent of Categorical Imperative (screencap related). Dealing in Absolutes is an impossibility, precisely due to the prior mentioned chaotic structure of the Universe. No matter how structured a civilization may be within itself, outside forces affect it regardless and are impartial factors. The whole Malthusian, let X die for Y to live is a flawed reasoning. To paraphrase Homeworld Cataclysm:
"Look at yourselves! The aloof, the mighty enlightened Federation! Standing by with indifference while millions die. All because you're terrified you might contaminate their culture. You're worse than the Borg! At least the Borg don't pretend to be righteous!"Both extremes of this question are equally idiotic; Saving a civilization from a natural disaster that is completely beyond their ability to survive isn't the same as taking over and creating some planetwide Nanny State. It is what the the Buddhists call The Middle Way. To help figure out what to do in these situations sometimes it is important to scale it down to an individual level - Fractal Morality.
Examples:
>1: World ending disaster that they can't stop on their own = a person who's trapped under a car after an accident. You're not playing God to save them, you're just being a decent person acting the extremely safe assumption that the person wants to continue living.
>2: potentially quite horrible and possibly world ending disaster that they can fix, but are having difficulty with = a person (maybe a friend) going through some struggles in life and finding it hard to push through. What can you do? offer your advice, or direct help if you're feeling generous enough, and leave it to them to decide whether or not they listen to/accept it.
>3: They're being invaded by another civilization that will either steal their resources or exterminate them = someone being mugged or murdered. Then, unless you're a worthless coward, you intervene to save them from the attacker if you're able to.
As was the original point of the Prime Directive (and breaking it) you need to think about different situations individually and do your best to figure out what the best course of action is. Can a person make a wrong decision? /
Of course, we are human, which is why Officers and captains of Star Trek crews are so rigorously tested before promotion.
This entire debate of intervention and non-intervention was the whole point of Star Trek's episodic plots, like Measure of a Man
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjCytqku18M where the question of Data's humanity and sentience is questioned but not truly definitely answered. A similar debate is seen in iRobot
>>3156 No.8693
>>1864>CochraneLOL The Roddenberry Roman a clef being put on the same level as Musk…
No.8697
>>7914we really need nesting comments on this site
No.8786
First episode of Lower Decks has released, it is not good as expected.
No.8836
>>2217>>6336>>2196>>2195Canonically it is possible. A talented engineer/programmer can configure a transporter to change people/beings into alternate forms. What a genius prank to turn everyone who comes through the transporter into a catgirl. I'm wondering how many people would be happy to remain in that form. There's a LOT of "transporter lore" across all of the franchise, including the movies, that just makes the tech God Magic.
TNG did a lot of stuff with the transporter that should have changed society. Take Rascals. Shitty episode, except for that part where Keiko tells O'Brien she still expects him to rail her, even if she's a child. But by the end they all change back. I can sort of get that if you're as young as Ro, but Picard? Why the fuck would Picard go back to his original age if he could just get an extra lifetime's worth of time? They didn't lose mental faculties, and the only problem was physical. But this is the Federation. People will still respect you if you have the body of a child. One character has this dumb line of "maybe you can go back to the Academy". Why? That wouldn't happen. He'd stay Captain. All they needed to do was add one line with "oh, and this will kill you".
It's notably strange that they never added some throw-away lines like they did for other possible plotholes/OP abilities.
>we can only do this once >we need the energy of a supernova for this>using this practically would be dangerousAnother TNG episode where some of the crew is infected with an aggressive virus that ages them … then they filter their DNA with a sample of pre-infection and return everyone to the age of the DNA sample. Immortality machine right there. Keep some DNA in stasis from your childhood and return to the age of 7 or 12 or 15 anytime you want, all knowledge and memories intact from when you were 110 or something. And unlike modern genetic engineering which is unreliable and with side-effects, there are no medical reasons to not do this. In fact, that episode alone tells you that you can take any DNA sample, genetically engineer it, then run yourself through the transporter with that as a filter and you come out the other side … in any form the DNA wants you to. Augmented, remove all aging, remove all disease, correct all radiation damage, remove & correct all genetic defects, etc.
For Example: Imagine you are Guinan (or anyone of her race). You are returned to the age of 10 or 13 after being 400 years old, all memories intact. You get to start life over again with a life expectancy of 500 or 600 years, near infinitely.
The Federation would WANT to use the tech this way. You can indefinitely preserve all that experience and training, completely revitalize your aging officers and research scientists for another 100 years at every go. Want/Need a clone of yourself? Trivial to split yourself at any age into two or a dozen yourselves. Why not 1000? Instant fleet of soldiers, starship captains, doctors, catgirls, whatever you need.
Personally, I would transform into a catgirl, live an entire lifetime as one, then revert to another form and live another lifetime. Feel like you were born the wrong gender? Transform yourself into any sex you want, any beauty you want, any age you want, any time you want. For free. The tech is simple and, literally, as cheap as water to operate.
However Star Trek in the end, is about humanity exploring the stars. And aliens that are really just a lot like various facets of humanity. The transporter was something they made up because the shuttle models hadn't been delivered yet, and then they realized they could use it as a nice vehicle for outlandish science fiction plots. There's that episode where a transporter malfunction creates two Kirks, and it has the facade of it being Good and Evil Kirk, until it turns out "Good" Kirk is indecisive and seemingly cowardly. Great episode that makes a great point. You can take away from that that the transporter, if configured correctly, could just be used to copy a person, but that was never really the point. A better example was in TNG where Riker was split into two identical people that only diverged in experience & memory after they were split. I really liked how they didn't do that as a one-off and that the "other Riker" was featured in several more episodes, including in DS9. Voyager had a fascinating take on two people (Neelix & Tuvok) getting merged into a single person, albeit with a "helper" organism. And then being able to be separated, with each retaining the memory of their time as a combined entity.
TL;DR: Federation transporter tech would make changing bodies, cloning, merging, de-aging, and other stuff as trivial as just using the transporter on its own and there are no stated caveats to this.
No.8837
>>8836Yeah they really need a line somewhere in one of the main shows like "we can do bullshit with the transporter all we want but you're going to get time cancer or turn into an irradiated blob after a while due to genetic damange" but put in a more star trek way, as it is now the Transporter basically just breaks absolutely everything when you start to think about it, every faction with it should just be able to shit out armies of perfect soldiers/scientists/administrators in an afternoon or use it to directly download decades of experience on any given topic or in any area into people's heads using it, given that they're able to perfectly reassmble people, memories and all, there's no reason they couldn't just take a copy of say, Picard's brainwaves from the buffer, decompile them, and make Goodatcommand.zip to shove into every cadets head from that point onward for example
No.8868
>>8864>it was genuinely funny and true to Star TrekOk CBS-fag, go back to reddit.
>It blows STD and STP out of the water.The only reason it's 'better' than those shows is because it's a cartoon and has less obligations than a series or movie does thus allowing for relaxed expectations. It's still shit from its first scene.
An annoying idiot with no sense of maturity and drinking on duty while transporting an OPEN box of WEAPONS, then fucks around with them and seriously injures her crewmate. That's moronic and annoying.
"Oh but she's just rebellious, she's totally good at things despite following no protocols or rules." That is being a Mary Sue, and a shoddy one at that, she's not being cutely naughty or some shit, she's being outright negligent. And then the serious injury (seriously man she cut an artery for sure) is forgotten about in the next scene. This is the kind of endangerment that would get me locked in a cabin on a ship for the duration of the voyage.
Humour me. Just for fun, reverse these characters. He's drunk and starts climbing all over a female ensign, then attacks her with a lethal weapon. Who thinks that's funny? It's the kind of shit that gets you a jail sentence today.
The whole "muh uncaring bureaucracy" shit and the main character being 'le rebel' Mary Sue who is "always right" and "knows things" is just shite. The part where Officers are all pretentious glory hound idiots who act like college dude-bros is shit. The part with "le officers get all the credit" is also shite. It's exactly the problem of "The Last Man" vision which I talked about
>>5279 because it takes modern capitalist hierarchy + problems and plasters it onto the futurist Aesthetic of Star Trek. It's just like the JJ Abrams movies and STD and STP. Even Orville did a better parody of Trek than this. This is just taking the Rick and Morty schtick of mocking Sci-Fi and taking it unironically. The only thing that might make it bad enough to be funny again, is if they actively put in Rick and Morty references, like the Interstellar Demon Dino Stripper.
The Orion Girl and T'Ana the caitian doctor are the only ones who I like, because the former is a shining beacon of positivity who radiates the optimism of the original Star Trek and the latter is a sarcastic but likeable grumpy cat(girl). Rutheford has some potential but the way his scenes are played resemble Family Guy humor done WORSE somehow, like they don't even let the punchlines sink in and just rush ahead. The only thing this show will be good for is pron and memes.
No.8877
>>8868It's a comedy cartoon show, you autist.
>An annoying idiot with no sense of maturity and drinking on duty while transporting an OPEN box of WEAPONS, then fucks around with them and seriously injures her crewmate. That's moronic and annoying.It's called slapstick humour.
>"Oh but she's just rebellious, she's totally good at things despite following no protocols or rules." That is being a Mary Sue, and a shoddy one at that, she's not being cutely naughty or some shit, she's being outright negligent.You call her a Mary Sue, but then call her negligent. Besides, she has told you she's served on 5 ships, been to Klingon prison, etc. etc. the joke there is that even after a few years of service you see a lot of shit, case in point: Farpoint.
>And then the serious injury (seriously man she cut an artery for sure) is forgotten about in the next scene.And then the serious injury (seriously man she cut an artery for sure) is forgotten about in the next scene.It's Star Trek dude, they cure cancer by waving a light stick at a person.
>This is the kind of endangerment that would get me locked in a cabin on a ship for the duration of the voyage. Funny cartoon, not serious ST show.
>It's the kind of shit that gets you a jail sentence today. Go back to reading Jordan Peterson and fighting chaos dragons.
>The whole "muh uncaring bureaucracy" shit and the main character being 'le rebel' Mary Sue who is "always right" and "knows things" is just shite.Have you ever seen an episode of Star Trek? Kirk demoted himself so he can steal the Enterprise. Picard often goes against admirals and Federation bureaucracy. Fucking Kira! Sisko too, he really doesn't give a shit about Starfleet regulations, but more often acting as a Bajoran messiah than Starfleet captain.
>The part where Officers are all pretentious glory hound idiots who act like college dude-bros is shit.That's the best part. Because that's HOW THEY REALLY ARE. I recommend you watch TNG again. Riker gets on the Enterprise and he's gunning for the captain's chair. Riker rejects promotions because on Enterprise it's more exciting, read: more chance of glory. Glory and history are big themes in Star Trek. Then you had that elite Delta squad or whatever they were called, that Wesley joined and they were all about glory. Then in DS9 Nog joins that rogue Defiant, with a crew in search of… glory.
>The part with "le officers get all the credit" is also shite.More like true. When do they commend anyone but bridge/engine officers in Star Trek? Ensigns are expendable. Remember when they convince that young Bajoran ensign to volounteer for a mission that was almost certainly suicide?
>it takes modern capitalist hierarchy + problems and plasters it onto the futurist Aesthetic of Star Trek.Oh no, the autist forgot what year it was and now he's angry that Marx was right about base-superstructure and that capitalist realism is a thing. Womp womp.
>Even Orville did a better parody of Trek than this.Orville isn't a parody, it's a Star Trek show with some jokes thrown in. MacFarlane is a huge ST fan and he wanted to make a ST show, he sold it to FOX as a comedy because FOX bought comedies from him before, they probably wouldn't let him do a serious show.
>The only thing that might make it bad enough to be funny again, is if they actively put in Rick and Morty references, like the Interstellar Demon Dino Stripper. hahaha, you're actually angry STLD is not more like Rick and Morty. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>The Orion Girl and T'Ana the caitian doctor are the only ones who I like>The only thing this show will be good for is pron and memes.You're just a sex-starved incel who is unable to see female characters beyond what they can provide in way of sexual gratification.
No.8878
>>8864>It blows STD and STP out of the water.Feels like a back handed complement.
No.8880
>>8864It's like Final Space but Star Trek branded, just slightly less annoying, but the writing, artistic direction and animation are the same. Originality is dead.
No.8883
>>8877I know comedy and slapstick rather well given that I studied both Slap-stick comedy of the slient-era and of cartoons like Tex Avery and others. This isn't slapstick, its just "random action = funny hurr"
>call her a Mary Sue, but then call her negligentThat isn't a contradiction. She behaves negligently but gets no seen consequences, and her actions that are clearly endangering have no permanent effect, it might as well be Looney Toons… which doesn't work with STAR TREK. The original Star Trek animation, despite its age and lack of budget still had plenty of humor and slapstick but it never took away the core ideas of Star Trek (pic 2 related).
>she has told you she's served on 5 ships, been to Klingon prisonYes she TOLD us… that she served on 5 ships at the age of what 20-25? She certainly doesn't look 30 if her mother is the ship captain and is barely graying. And the part about the prison is retarded, its the kind of shit fake-tough people on the street claim when they try to scare someone. Nobody who goes to jail brags about it like she does. Also the very fact that the idea of Street-Cred stopped existing long before the events of the show, is idiotic, not to mention her "smuggling" as if this was Star Wars and the Federation ISN'T keeping track of every fucking ware they bring planetside.
>the joke there is that even after a few years of service you see a lot of shitThat isn't a joke, its not even humor. It just comes off as a really poor attempt at "le experienced rebel" schtick. An example of this done right is Irresponsible Captain Taylor, the difference is that his actions are justified with more than just "haha lol I'm so random and know things!"
>they cure cancer by waving a light stick at a personCancer does not cause death within a few minutes. A cut artery results in massive bloodloss and eventually death, which is possible if they don't reach the medical bay in time, which is possible since the ships is large AF. That's not to mention possible sepsis from uncleaned weapons, which wouldn't be unusual given her drunken leniency. Even if its all easily healed, its not even REFERRED to in the following episode, which makes the entire scene pointless.
>Funny cartoon, not serious ST showThis is bordering on the "made for kids" dismissal.
>reading Jordan Peterson and fighting chaos dragonsNo argument faggot
>Have you ever seen an episode of Star TrekYes, unlike you clearly
>Kirk demoted himself so he can steal the EnterpriseYeah thsi is what tels me you don't know what you're talking about
1) That was a film not the actual TV series
2) He was demoted FOR stealing it, he didn't demote himself
3) He did it in pursuit of his friend and did it with a voluntary crew he knew.
>Picard often goes against admirals and Federation bureaucracyBut he does so without outright breaking the rules, or with a good reason. He doesn't randomly mock his superiors because "fuck le bureacracy" like some 20th century street punk.
>really doesn't give a shit about Starfleet regulations, but more often acting as a Bajoran messiah than Starfleet captain.Yeah I don't know where you pulled that shit out of, even your ass isn't big enough for that. Stop reading reddit shitposts seriously
>When do they commend anyone but bridge/engine officers in Star Trek They do so several times, but because the show was limited to a very small cast outside of occasional guests and generic background people, they could only do that. It has nothing to do with le bureacracy and everything to do with a simple budget issue. Its a television series not a full budget film, and we follow our main crew and their interactions and actions. Moreover we do get several such commendations and other actions, such as in the EPISODE Lower Decks.
>they convince that young Bajoran ensign to volounteer for a mission that was almost certainly suicide? LOL ok, libertarian, sorry that serving as a crewmember comes with responsibilities that you may accept.
>the autist forgot what year it was and now he's angry that Marx was right<Hurr base-superstructure pseud-shit is totally an argument
You're an idiot who didn't read the post being referred to. Nice strawman
>Orville isn't a parody, it's a Star Trek show with some jokes thrown inYou have to be a schizophrenic, I swear.
Parody:
an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect.1) Orville MOCKS and IMITATES many facets of Star Trek, BUT its inherent depiction is far more light-hearted and parodical than actual Star Trek. It still manages to carry across serious ideas and concepts.
2) It isn't an ACTUAL Star Trek show and was made by Seth some time after CBS refused to let him make a show. This makes it a PARODY.
>he's a fanSo? How does that disprove my point? His comedic imitation of Star Trek is better than any Star Trek media in the past decade at least.
>You're just a sex-starved incelNice argument cunt.
>unable to see female characters beyond what they can provide in way of sexual gratificationT'Ana is a literal GRUMPY OLD CAT DOCTOR, that was my main emphasis. She's not exactly sexy in the conventional sense and I like her no-nonsense character. The fact that she's a Caitian is a plus because they're a favorite of mine since M'ress and their various cameos over the series. If I was "sex-starved" I wouldn't think the "caitians" in JJ Abram's movies were shite.
I was also very specific that I like Tendi because she's exactly the representation of Star Trek's ideals and stand out in the cast because of it, I mentioned nothing about her being sexy or some other shit. I mentioned memes and pron because the actual show is shite and brings nothing new or intelligent to the table, and will thus only generate memes and rule34, and nothing else, just like any other brainless show with shallow attempts at messages.
PS Your obscure and outdated references to Jordan Peterson and "muh incels" while rabidly defending the snarky narcissist of an MC, leads me to believe you're projecting and can't stand to see someone talk shit about your "waifu"
TL;DR: You're a salty liberal with no argument and no understanding of Trek.
No.8884
>>8877Also inb4
>Muh rule 34 pic 3I posted that as a demonstration of my final sentence.
A) Its a naked drunk Tendi - Pron
B) Tendi is talking like Ensign Mariner who in turn talks just like Rick (from Rick and Morty) which is a meme
Capiche? This kind of flat /aco/ shit holds no interest to me otherwise, we simply have a 3 image post limit and its easier to do 2 in 1.
No.8909
>>8883>I know comedy and slapstick rather well given that I studied both Slap-stick comedy of the slient-era and of cartoons like Tex Avery and others. lol
>Nobody who goes to jail brags about it like she does. Have you ever seen an episode of Star Trek? Do you know of a character called Tom Paris?
>not to mention her "smuggling" as if this was Star Wars and the Federation ISN'T keeping track of every fucking ware they bring planetside.Go watch DS9.
>his actions are justified with more than just "haha lol I'm so random and know things!"But she's not a captain, or in any high position, she was demoted to ensign, despite her mom being a captain and her dad being an admiral. It means she is an undisciplined fuck up whose parental connections are keeping her in Starfleet. She is still relegated to "lower decks" and has to do shit jobs. So despite her experience, knowledge snd capabilities she is still an ensign… how does that not fit in with how you see her?
>A cut artery results in massive bloodloss and eventually death,I actually can't remember if the blood was squirting, if there was no squirting blood then no artery was hit.
>which is possible if they don't reach the medical bay in time, which is possible since the ships is large AF.The transporter.
>That's not to mention possible sepsis from uncleaned weaponsI don't remember a ST character succumbing to sepsis.
>its not even REFERRED to in the following episode, which makes the entire scene pointless.No, the point was to set up the characters; to see that she is reckless and dangerous, and that he is mild and a pushover. Not everything that happens in the show has to be part of the plot. Remember when Riker was Q for a day yet no one ever said to Riker after "Hey, remember that time you were a god?" because it was about Riker, his character and personality.
>This is bordering on the "made for kids" dismissal.There's a difference between wanting to make a comedy show and set it in Star Trek universe and wanting to make a Star Trek show with humour. I think it is the former and that's why I enjoy it. Last two "proper" Star Treks Picard and Discovery were hot garbage, LD feels like a pool of clean water after walking through shit.
>he does so without outright breaking the rules, or with a good reasonWHICH IS IT? You just contradicted yourself.
>He doesn't randomly mock his superiors because "fuck le bureacracy" like some 20th century street punk.Uhhh, you need to watch TNG again. Admirals coming to tell Picard what to do and him going against them is a recurring theme in TNG. Didn't you notice how nearly all admirals are bad? In DS9 it's even more explored cause you have the frontier (DS9) that has to do what they can to survive, and then you have the Federation with rules and regulations that can't really apply. Go watch the early DS9 episodes when the Security Officer comes from Federation, and you have the tension between him and Odo, often Federation vs. Station regulations. Bureaucracy is a hindrance to human life and progress in all of Star Trek, that's the point. Why do you think rule-following Vulcans are the butt of a lot of jokes?
>Yeah I don't know where you pulled that shit out ofFrom watching DS9. Sisko is even told off by his superiors for acting too much like an Emissary, rather than a Starfleet captain. You obviously missed a lot of episodes.
>they could only do that. It has nothing to do with le bureacracy and everything to do with a simple budget issue. Doesn't matter WHY it happened, turboautist, it matters that it did happen. The creators of STLD took it and ran with it for a joke. That's called humour. Maybe you should study that kind of humour next.
>in the EPISODE Lower Decks.Yes, in the same episode they fill the Bajoran ensign's head with shit about duty, and sacrifice, making her volounteer for a suicide mission. The episode ends not with a commendation, but a promotion because of the reduced candidate field (<- that's a joke)
>sorry that serving as a crewmember comes with responsibilities that you may accept.Have you seen the episode? The mission (to be escorted by a Cardassian informant into Cardassian space as a Bajoran prisoner so that the informant can go back in) was not part of her duties or her responsibilities, that's why she had to volounteer and Picard says she doesn't have to do it. But she's also training with Worf who's brainwashing her, so she ends up volounteering.
>arguing over definitions and semanticsI'm gonna concede that one to your autism, I can't compete there.
>She's not exactly sexy in the conventional senseBut she's sexy in an unconventional sense?
>I mentioned memes and pron because the actual show is shite and brings nothing new or intelligent to the tableHe said, after watching one episode. Would you say the same of TNG after watching the first, African-planet episode? I'm gonna give the show a chance, before I start making conclusions about its entirety.
>while rabidly defending the snarky narcissist of an MCShow me where I have "rabidly defended" the MC. Also, it's an ensemble cast, no one is really the one MC.
>leads me to believe you're projecting and can't stand to see someone talk shit about your "waifu"lol, I don't have "waifus", I don't even watch anime, and I definitely don't imagine TV show characters are real, fuckable people. Concerns me that you'd make the leap there, though.
>You're a salty liberal with no argument and no understanding of Trek.<Look mom! I called him a liberal!
And you have an idea of what you want Star Trek to be, no doubt heavily influenced by TNG show and movies, but you clearly haven't seen enough actual Star Trek. You'd probably hate DS9, it's a very different Star Trek to TNG, and in fact throws a lot of Federation ideals out of the window. The very existence of Section 13 throws the idea of the Federation being a do-no-evil utopia out of the window.
No.8929
>>8909>Have you ever seen an episode of Star TrekYes, have you?
<Tom Paris
You're not making your case better
>watch DS9Ah yes the show that took Star Trek and decided that it would be a good idea to mix in inane comedy episodes midway through a war and have literal space-magic ripped off from Babylon 5. Those were the worst parts of DS-9 and terrible arguments.
>she's not a captainShe's an officer of a ship. With that logic, a junior lieutenant can act like a clown on duty.
<not in any high position
She was DEMOTED from a higher position in the fleet multiple times.
>despite her mom being a captain No, its BECAUSE of that, if they weren't her mom and dad, she'd likely be kicked out after court martial.
>It means she is an undisciplined fuck up You're contradicting your point and supporting mine.
>despite her experience, knowledge snd capabilitiesExcept it makes no sense, her experience makes no sense for someone who behaves like a child, she just "knows things" and has "experience" (so she says). Its a case of nepotism.
>bloodThere was an audible and visible squirt and the cut is to the bone. I do dissections, that is a fairly debilitating injury.
>The transporterAh yes the tool that is used in a plot for escaping planets and possibly fatal fuck-up episodes, including but not limited to
>losing your pattern and you're basically gone forever>turning you into a body horror monstrosity that dies a few seconds later (TMP)>teleporting you to a mirror universe where everyone is evil (TOS)>teleporting you out of phase so you're invisible and intangible to everything and everyone (TNG)>creating a perfect copy of you (TNG)>makeing you and another person perform the fusion dance (VOY)Should I go on?
>ST character succumbing to sepsis.Don't be obtuse, Star Trek has numerous diseases that are still uncurable, especially since Lower Decks is chronologically early in Federation history (STO era). Also that Bat'leth is definitely coated in dried blood, now that I look again.
>the point was to set up the charactersYes and when you set them up, you usually have something referring to the literal introduction of them. There isn't even a throw-away line like
- "How can I trust someone who literally slashed open my leg!?"
- "I said I was sorry, how many times are you going to keep bringing it up?!"
Literally that fucking easy, but they don't because continuity is a funny thought in this show outside of the most blatant of shit.
>see that she is reckless and dangerous, and that he is mild and a pushoverAnd how is the former a contradiction of what I said from the start? That is LITERALLY what I stated, the point is there is no backlash. Yes Star Trek medical tech is phenomenal, but it is still a potentially fatal injury yet has NO repercussions at all. Hell she doesn't even look concerned or feel sorry for fucking up past a single scream out of initial panic, not an actual thought, and then she goes right back to being an obnoxious shit-talker.
>when Riker was Q for a day>no one ever said to Riker after "Hey, remember that time you were a god?"But within the actual episode there was consistency. I'm not talking about the leg-slash being mentioned into next episode, but it's literally dismissed and forgotten in a minute. Ridiculous and out of place. We see no indication of time passing or any consequences, which Star Trek usually is consistent with.
>Last two "proper" Star Treks<Picard and Discovery
This is why you're either mental or a newfag, Picard and Discovery are exactly NOT proper Star Trek, none of it is consistent with older Star Trek, not even the tonally inconsistent DS9. This is noted by literally every Star Trek fan out there, and has been talked about within this thread as well. Lower Decks is consistent with Picard and Discovery in how they have characters behave, even if the tone isn't edgy; swearing, lax behavior, action-hero bullshit and other rubbish that belongs in a parody like Galaxy Quest (and did it better). A fairly good vid comparing Discovery and Lower Decks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mO34XjyA9I >LD feels like a pool of clean water after walking through shitLike I said, 'cause cartoons have lower expectations, and the lack of outright adult content taken seriously makes people not think.
>You just contradicted yourselfNope, He uses loopholes to do what is necessary and only defies them openly in exceptional circumstances that permit him to make such decisions.
>nearly all admirals are bad<goes against them
But its HOW he goes about it, whether capturing an admiral breaking the rules or whether it is to unroot a conspiracy or other things which justify his actions, not literal "fugg uthority" for no reason.
>Bureaucracy is a hindrance to human life and progress in all of Star TrekIt's also demonstrated to be important and save lives because playing hero doesn't work 90% of the time. Moreover DS9 justified Odo's actions, he wasn't "le rebel teen" but an experienced and professional crewmember.
>Sisko is even told off by his superiors for acting too much like an Emissary, rather than a Starfleet captainSometimes they're right. DS9 is not a good reference when they themselves are very inconsistent at times, and demonstrate notable fuck ups when not following the rules. Rules aren't there to annoy people, they're there for a reason, and in Star Trek, it generally is a good reason, even if some individual circumstances shown require these rules to be bent.
No.8930
>>8909>>8929had to fucking rewrite this because the cut-paste function decided to stop working on this blasted lynxchan shit
>Doesn't matterIt does, because it dictated the ability of them to show lower-deck episodes.
>ran with the jokeExcept its a poor joke. It's the most tired pop-media cliche ever and isn't even funny, especially since the original was supposed to be sad and introspective, not "LOL le bureaucracy bad".
>study humorThat's what Kurtzman's writers should do.
>making her volounteer for a suicide mission.That's not how it works. They don't make her do anything given that, as an intelligent adult who understood the situation, she accepted the risks.
>Not part of her dutiesHave you ever heard of "serving above and beyond expectations". That's what is meant. The acceptance of a higher risk (such as to ones own life) voluntarily because the stakes were much higher than ANY one individual and her personal stakes were also in it as a Bajoran.
>The episode ends not with a commendationYou're telling me about missing things lol:
Picard makes a note in his log that they have intercepted a Cardassian communication indicating that a Bajoran prisoner was killed in her pod while trying to escape. He then makes a ship wide announcement where he confirms Sito has been lost in the line of duty, describing her as an outstanding Starfleet officer who showed great courage, as well as strength of character and noting that he knows that her death will be deeply felt by everyone who knew her (with Picard himself saddened by her loss). Sito's friends are seen reacting to the news with shock and upset.The promotion is because of the loss and is not seen as something good, caused by something so ironically terrible. This death is set up in the story with the prior discussions about politics, leadership and the promotion decision by the superior officers, important decisions and discussions that are with risk and issues.
>muh promotionLife goes on, that is the harsh truth of the situation
>that's a jokeYes a joke not meant to be laughed at like a fucking idiot, but to be sadly amused by; a human comedy that
>training with Worf <who's brainwashing her
Ok Stirner. You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. The outright lesson of Worf's final test is for Sito to object to the unfair things she is subjected to by a superior officer and thus to get her to realize the unspoken test challenge, that wrong decisions cannot be left to stand regardless of tradition or orders, and that she must make her own decisions. If anything that is the OPPOSITE of brainwashing. And no it isn't hyping her up to face the Cardassians, she doesn't need to be pushed there. See the conversation
https://startrek.blognook.com/category/sito-jaxa/I also recommend reading:
https://www.tor.com/2013/02/22/star-trek-the-next-generation-lower-decks/>sexy in an unconventional senseA CAT woman (furry) is no the typical sexual preference for the majority of the world population.
>after watching one episode<*prepares to shit on table* How do you know it's shit, it's not even all out
Also I watched 2 episodes so far and the episode and trailer previews and all sorts of other shit, I;m not going to waste my time with schlock on the offchance some of it might be good, There are plenty of Star Trek episodes I could rewatch that do it much better… like Lower Decks.
>Would you say the same of TNG after watching the first, African-planet episode No, because that episode was actually decent and interesting
>give the show a chanceHey it's your time you're killing
>where I have "rabidly defended" the MCHyperbole. And you have spent the past 3 posts defending her actions.
>ensemble castShe dominates the poster, the trailers and episode previews, she shut down or talks over all naysayers in her episode appearances and takes up the most screentime and is the focus with Boimler being dragged along like a disobedient dog. and the rest being obviously either suck-ups or plot-crutches.
>I don't have "waifus">I don't even watch animeIt's general chan-speak newfag.
>I definitely don't imagine TV show characters are real, fuckable people. Sure bud
>Concerns me that you'd make the leap thereThat's the immediate tendency, it's why /aco/ exists, there is no big leap.
>Mom liberalok kid
>you have an idea of what you want Star Trek to be, no doubt heavily influenced by TNG> you clearly haven't seen enough actual Star Trek<TNG isn't real Trek
<But DS9's magic and retcons are
Ok schiz
>existence of Section 13 throws the idea of the Federation being a do-no-evil utopiaNoone ever claims its a utopia, read the post being referred to carefully.
No.9778
I've been rewatching TNG and I'm really enjoying it and I'm planning on doing the same for DS9. Should I keep going after that, or is everything from Voyager onwards subpar?
No.9788
>>9778After TNG things go a bit away from the original vision of Star Trek, however I do suggest you watch DS9 and Voyager. I personally enjoyed some of Enterprise, despite its problems. Anything produced after that (movies or tv series) are not worth the time.
>>8878 Because it is LOL
>>8786As in it isn't good, AS Expected or isn't as good as you expected it to be?
No.9848
>>9778Once TNG gets going it really gets going. Season 3 is just pure brilliance and despite its low budget the Yesterdays Enterprise battle has to one of my favourites in all of sci-fi. The speech Picard gives at the start gives me chills.
No.9938
>>9848I'm at Season 6 of TNG and while it takes a while to get going,it's great when it does. I think it's starting to go down hill a bit now though, IMO it kind of peaked at season 3-4.
No.9967
>>9938>I think it's starting to go down hill a bit now though, IMO it kind of peaked at season 3-4Nah, season 7 is fantastic.
No.10470
Discovery was shit because it retconed time travel to being invented by two random scientists before TOS.
And then starfleet just shelved time travel technology until the 29th century
No.10471
>>9938There has been some real gems in season 5.
What I like about Star Trek is the stories, the situations they are put in, the moral dilemmas, the politics. Deep respect for Picard's character, even if he's a lib. There's a lot of cheesyness, plotholes, and shit science that doesn't make sense, but it is never central to whatever is going on, which is pretty cool. I don't want to say philosophical, but it presents interesting problematics which I enjoy being played out.
That's why shit like time travel is just a quirk, a plot device, not really meant to be taken seriously IMO.
No.10473
Is there any task incite into how earth is run in trek? I need watched TNG, TOS or DS9. But from the other series in little condescending quips (oh you still use money?) it seems earth is fully communist with a moneyless post scarcity society.
Isv it ever mentioned who runs the government? Is starfleet the dictatorship of the prolitariat? How does Picard's wine vineyard fit into their society? Can large areas of land still be purchased even with no money?
No.10479
>>10473From what we seen in DS9, earth is pretty much a communist post-scarcity paradise where people are so bored that they voluntarily sign up for Starfleet service.
>Is starfleet the dictatorship of the prolitariat?In the higher stage of communism the proletariat as a class disappears.
>How does Picard's wine vineyard fit into their society? I assume access to such properties would be based on merit, and Picard is the most accomplished captain of his time.
No.10480
>>10479>post-scarcitynot entirely they have rations for teleportation and replicators
No.10481
Do the people saying shit like "they dragged an old man back for fan service" not understand that Patrick Stewart is a multimillionaire? He could retire any time he wants. He's only doing this because he personally wants to. Probably to give Trek fans one more Picard story before he dies.
No.10482
Not Strek, but rewatching BSG. Series 3 episode 16 is directly about marxian class analysis (specifically the new class mechanics of The Fleet) and how there has developed a new stratocratic feudalism (basically people being born into their jobs that are a part of the war effort). It's a good watch, has a lib ending, but there is a bit where the deck hands of the military wing go on strike, and they threaten to shoot them all as mutineers and they are forced to back down. Really shows how violence is used by the state
No.10483
>>10481Well, first off, Picard (the show) probably gives him paychecks that rival anything he's ever gotten during his career, including the X-Men franchise. Secondly, he probably does this out of his heart but considering he was apparently involved in the writing process, it shows that he is completely out of stance and considering that every show today has to address the typical political themes he can't really seem to grasp the zeitgeist considering how much of a boomer he is. He probably also thinks the J.J. Abrams reboots and STD are good, well-received shows because that's probably what his agents tell him (as an agent you get a share when the contract is made).
Honestly, I also get the appeal. TNG had a huge budget compared to TOS, but compared with modern shows it feels like an amateur series. It's really seductive to be able to recreate your old show in a serialized format with a GoT tier budget. If TNG is such a loved classic, how amazing would it be if it had a Hollywood budget? That's the thought process of the many writers behind this.
I'm not opposed to a big budget serialized epic for Star Trek, but it needs to be handed over to the right people. It's not hard to make a good Star Trek series, because the world is already so well established that you can basically tap into a pool of unlimited potential. But the brand Star Trek was never owned by people who had its best interest at heart.
No.10484
I'm still amazed that TNG looks so good in its visual quality compared to shows life voyager, battlestar Galactica and SG-1.
Those look like I'm watching it on an old VHS tape
No.10488
>>10484I think Voyager looks better and the ship is also more comfy with more darker colors.
No.10560
>>9788>in it isn't good, AS Expected or isn't as good as you expected it to beBoth lol. And it gets worse every episode, doubling down on what doesn't work. Don't mind some irreverence against the themes&lore, but what were they thinking making a comedy with so few jokes, very few of which even land… tho I guess soybanter is comedy for some people, but even that doesn't seem to work here
No.11083
>>10484>I'm still amazed that TNG looks so good in its visual qualityDid you watch the HD remastered version?
No.11161
Okay, so I watched the first episode of STD, spoilers ahead.
It was pretty boring and the world-building sucked. Basically, Burnham got herself catapulted 1000 years into the future, already this notion sort of destroys the suspension of disbelief. From a technological angle, they barely made any achievements. Warp technology got replaced by the quantum slipstream we saw in that Voyager episode. Oh, and transporters are now portable (but have a 30 sec recharging time which makes them worse than portable transporters during the TNG era). Other than that, no significant changes, aesthetics have just moved towards a more Apple Store based design which is fucking ridiculous. And of course, Burnham has seemingly no problem immediatly being able to use all the technology and weapons. It would have been way more believable if they got her 200 years into future instead of a fucking 1000, what was the point of that? In that episode where Scotty returns in TNG, he already has no clue about how to use stuff and that's just been 70 years. Apparently Burnham can just pick up an interface from 1000 years into the future and be an expert with it (meanwhile Jay-El can't even push a button on a starship anymore after his retirement in Picard). Ship design, as it was an issue with the Picard series already, is practically non-existent, we never get a full shot of any vessel and if we do it's a complete cardboard ship designed by a 14-year old after watching the Star Wars prequels. Again, it has a pretty Star Wars-ish vibe to it with rouge traders, Coruscant-like cities, mercenaries and the chad Burnham immediately hooks up with even has Jedi powers. Burnham also gets on a drug trip that was supposed to be comedic relief but it didn't came over that way because she just isn't endearing enough as a character. She also gets eaten by a gigantic worm, sadly the thing spits her out again.
They moved on from the grimdark shit of the last seasons and seemingly try to be more optimistic, but it's still full of needless action and shaky-camera shots, again, more like Star Wars than Star Trek. Even in the slower, character-focused moments we get a shaky cam. There is also a scene where Burnham kills 4-5 Andorians and Gorns (!) with in single combat with a weapon she never saw before because it's 1000 years more advanced. Like I have no problem with action scenes but this isn't the fucking Expendebles. Federation is gone which was seemingly caused by some apocalyptic event 150 ago and we don't know what empires or factions exist, it all seems to be gone and only city-states and rogue traders exist. Apparently an apocalyptic event destroyed Starfleet that had something to do with the warp drive causing all warp-powered ships to go down (which would imply that every other faction including the Borg or the Romulans would also be reduced to shambles?). I guess we spend the rest of the season trying to find out what really happened with Burnham helping to rebuild the Federation, as there are sprinkled elements of the Federation still active. Discovery is also coming back and based on the trailer we see how it will get equipped with 32nd century tech, what the fuck the point of that is I don't know. It's basically trying to make an aircraft carrier out of a 15th century Spanish galeon.
My prediction: Less outrageous SJW shit, still Burnham-centered but they'll try making her look less of a bitch (but she's still a Mary Sue), there will be more optimism, but overall it's probably gonna be super boring. Oh, and they are bringing the "Empress" back from the mirror universe, saw her kicking some ass in the trailer.
No.11391
said what happened to this entire franchise
No.11398
I don't know if this will remain relevant with the financial failure of Lower Decks, however
> Alex Kurtzman Planning a New Star Trek Animated Series> Development on any further Star Trek films appears to have stalled, but the franchise continues to prosper on CBS All Access. Apart from current titles, the network is planning to extend its reach beyond the live-action realm. In a recent interview with The Hollywood Reporter, Alex Kurtzman revealed that another animated Star Trek series is in the works for the streaming service.
> “Our goal is to not only expand the definition of Star Trek and what has qualified as traditional Star Trek, but also to tell stories that are both self-contained in a very short period of time that also connect to the larger picture of what we’re doing, not only in Discovery but in the world building of Trek in general,” Kurtzman said. “And you get to tell these very intimate, emotional stories that are side stories to characters. So you get the benefit of the experience in and of itself but then when you watch Discovery you’ll see that these were all setting up things in the world of season two.”
> Kurtzman didn’t share any specifics about the new cartoon. But when it launches, it will be CBS All Access’ second animated venture after Mike McMahan’s (Rick and Morty) Star Trek: Lower Decks. That series offers a comedic take on the adventures of a Starfleet vessel’s support crew. “[Lower Decks] is totally different from anything we’re doing on any of these other shows and we decided to tell that story and make those people the heroes,” Kurtzman explained. He also indicated that additional animated shows are possible down the line. However, he insists that “each show has to have its own identity.”How utterly delightful
, nothttps://www.superherohype.com/tv/432069-cbs-all-access-planning-a-new-star-trek-animated-series No.11423
>>11398if they still do a cartoon after the flop of stld chances are it is a total reboot, so there is some potential there for something better
of course no reason to expect it to be actually good even if it is different, given the track record ot kurtzman
No.11439
The amount of (apparently confirmed) Star Trek shows Kurtzman has in the pipeline is terrifying. The more he dishes out the harder it will be to do a hard reset, if there ever is going to be one.
No.11441
>>11439It's time to just let go already. Star Trek ended.
No.11452
>>11439How many of them are actually going to get made? It already feels like they're driving it into the ground with 3 shows.
No.11454
Okay why the fuck does STD cut like it has ad breaks: it's made by fucking netflix.
No.11467
>>11454Probably because it's prepared for ad breaks if it airs on any other service (like cable).
>>11452As many as can be milked before it collapses and dies.
>>11439>>11423My hopes for a reboot are long gone TBH. All the crap after Enterprise ended and Stage 9 was cancelled has been nothing but one shitpile on top of another. As
>>11441 puts it, they should just cut the crap and end it.
No.11477
>>11467The thing is, with a world-building that is as rich as Star Trek, that went on for decades (what franchise can claim something similar?), I wouldn't mind a completely serialized Star Trek show and I wouldn't mind some grimdark alterations as well. Deep Space Nine proved that it worked, at a time when serialization was still very unpopular, yet the parts where DS9 is the most serialized are considered the peak of Star Trek. I wouldn't mind somebody talented making an epic HBO-style Star Trek show, but the people who have the claws in this franchise now are utterly incompetent or are probably just grifters. What killed it was the decision to turn Star Trek into a shaky-cam generic sci-fi action show modelled after Star Wars.
The Expanse proves that classic sci-fi shows aren't dead. I'm sure you could do something like that for Star Trek as well while staying true to the original spirit of it.
No.11478
>>11454The cuts and the camera work on STD literally give me a headache.
No.11482
>>11477>the parts where DS9 is the most serialized are considered the peak of Star TrekBy you maybe.
No.11485
>>11482How are the six Dominion War episodes at the beginning of season 6 not one of the peaks of Trek?
No.11496
>>11485The peak of Star Trek is intelligent science fiction episodes like The Measure of a Man. Not war drama that could be told in any other fictional universe (and was done better in Babylon 5).
No.11500
>>11477The worldbuilding isn't the problem, the problem is the legacy of the most recent series and movies that retroactively taint the past series and future ones.
The Expanse is fresh and new and the Orville is not a direct Star Trek film so it can expand freely. Star Trek has too much baggage to continue longer with Kurtzman's faggotry
No.11527
>>11496I mean, It's Only a Paper Moon is perhaps my favorite episode.
No.11611
Second STD episode was more tolerable because it didn't have Michael in it apart from the end where she's getting another Jesus moment. But they should really cut out this Asian bitch, can not stand her, she's just comically evil.
No.11764
>>5236>>5203 >>5211>>5201>>5213>>5127>>5123The thing is, aliens likely DO exist. Given the chemical make up of the universe, it’s massive size, the huge variety of physical forces acting in certain places and the existence of hugely various life that we experience ourselves personally, we can say with certainty that it is possible for the universe to produce life, we ourselves the living proof.
The issue is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradoxBut for that, there are several possibilities.
1) it is possible that we are the first “intelligent” life that has ever evolved. Thus, while aliens are out there, they are not as smart as we are. Why would other life in the universe necessarily have to be intelligent? We may in fact BE the future precursor aliens of our universe that are often told of in science-fiction stories.
2) There are aliens, but they are so far away it is literally physically impossible for them to ever reach us or us them, the physical conditions required for life simply cannot be created in a state that travels fast enough to cover the distance before it dies. This however assumes life is evenly spread and there isn’t some life near enough to us that could possibly do this
3) This is indeed possible, it just hasn’t happened yet. For unknown reasons such as a postulated Prime Directive as in Star Trek.
4) it is possible, it has happened, and for whatever reason they chose not to reveal themselves or we do not have concrete visible proof.
5) it is possible, it is happening, but they have not found us yet.
6) it is possible, it is happening but the CIA have covered it up.
Now I have to tell you lads that in basically every above scenario, bar 1 & 2, that we are simply talking about a matter of time, literally. Unless they choose never to reveal themselves. But you have to think at some point they would, for many different reasons, to exploit us, to help us, out of curiosity. You’d think if they came this far, they’d also be the kind of beings curious enough to come this far, curious, or greedy, if it was greed, and they had the capability, they would take us in a heartbeat.
Basically, the ayylmao clock is ticking, although we could be all dead from climate change by the time they find us, and that looks a lot more likely than us finding them
There's a huge amount about physics we don't know yet. The nature of their existence might just be different from ours, like they're made of dark matter or are Cthulhuesque beings. Whatever they are though, the encounters indicate they are willfully showing themselves to us. That raises the questions of why they care and how they want us to react to the knowledge. That is the subject of debate concerning the Prime Directive ->
>>5387 >>5390>>5282 >>6922>>8692>>5290 >>5375>>5386>>6922>>7913>>7916 No.11785
>>11764You forgot the option that all the aliens have invented subspace communication and are shitposting on the uninet, wondering why humans aren't loggin in.
No.11802
I Just got done with DS9 in my big Trek watch. I really like it's cast of characters Who feel more fleshed out and colourful that most of TNG's main cast. I thought it had a nice mix of overarching plotlines and standalone episodes too.
>>11527I really like that Episode, it was where Vic really grew on me as a character (unlike Ezri who never really fit in that well). i have mixed feeling on the Dominion war. Action in TV shows never seems to do it for me. I really liked the Dominion as villains though.
No.11804
I think by virtue of it being a spin off animated series hardcore trek fans will be less offended by Lower Decks than by STD or Picard
No.11806
>>11613Seriously, will no one answer?
No.11823
>>11804True, but as I explained in my posts for Lower Decks, it's such trash that it still doesn't get any real positive feedback, the only people who like it are idiots who think modern Family Guy is funny, though even Family Guy is better than Lower Decks TBH.
>>11806TBH I saw the video, but I don't know what to say, raincheck.
No.11962
I'm watching STD, the third episode of the new season, and they're already re-introducing that retarded mushroom drive that lets them jump to any point in the universe. So of course a 1000 year old ship (!!) will have the technological edge in this future. Unbelievably retarded.
No.11975
This STD crap is ridiculous. There [b]no way[/b] I can suspense my disbelief when a thousand year old ship can take a hit from two 32nd century torpedoes, and that a crew from this ship can outfox their 32nd century opponents in regards to tech. Like wtf, there a scene where a Trill girl gets lectured by the gay Discovery engineer.
No.11992
>>2677Design has always been problematic on these vessels, due to how hard it is to configurate the inside with the outside.
If some of the older series ships were built accurate to the set blueprints then it was shit anyways. Those were built to 7:8 scale - literally a ship for manlets. Not sure about the other technical blueprints that were created at one point, but they were shit too for other reasons. For instance, when you attempt to reconcile the Enterprise-D model used for the show with deck heights and interior layout, shits fucking fucked. None of it makes any sense and is wildly inconsistent, like the model was built in stages and no care was taken to ensure the windows and decks were placed accurately. A realistically revised Enterprise-D would have a noticeably different exterior window layout all over, but particularly in the "neck" and in saucer where a lot of them are long, awkwardly-placed floor/skylights more then practical windows.
>So how would it look accurately?you'd probably want to start with the bridge/deck 1 or ten forward/deck 10 as reference and work from there. Nearly all the windows in the saucer would be shorter and you'd probably have a lot more of the 'notched' windows like you see at the bottom of the saucer. The neck may or may not be spaced correctly, but aesthetically you've got a lot of weirdly-positioned windows, but that's not strictly a problem. Autists try to 3D model the Enterprise-D complete interiors from time to time and always complain about problems matching the decks to the windows seen the models. They end up having to partially disregard the blueprints or the models or both.
>>10470>>11962>>11975Time travel was already broken enough a feature of 'Trek' and it's been trivialized outright.
>>11478As a part-time cameraman it makes me want to take whoever edited the shots and bang their head on a keyboard.
No.11997
>>11992>Time travel was already broken enough a feature of 'Trek' and it's been trivialized outright. Time travel was rather mild in scope though, at best they were travelling back to the 20th century, or were confronted with shenanigans from hundreds of years in the future, that they didn't understand and were merely dealing with the hand they were dealt with.
In STD, they are travelling a thousand years into the future, beyond the Temporal Cold War from ENT, and are playing an active role taking on the faction from that time, and it's not believable.
No.12025
Soooo Space Toilets, how do they work in Star Trek. I think it reverse-replicates the matter. ENT toilets at least still used water to at least move the waste around, I know that Archer had a shower in his quarters so I doubt plumbing was much different. I think you just used a toilet which had replicated water, or some liquid in it, and when it "flushed", it just unreplicated anything in it. I'm not sure if they did anything else, like some sort of system that cleans your ass while you're sitting on the toilet, like the Japanese toilets, but with the same sonic technology as sonic showers.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/ToiletIRL the current ISS uses NASA, Russian and European tech. The Russian Orbital Segment has its own toilet and water recycler and the US Orbital Segment also had its own toilet and water. The Space Shuttle, as far as I know, mostly stored everything on board, since missions were rarely longer than a week. Soyuz's toilet is the same case, it stores it, but I think liquid can be taken out and fed into the water recycler, while waste is kept inside, and will be burned up when the Soyuz does orbital re-entry. Russian modules have their own water recycler, which I've heard produces better tasting water because it adds minerals. No idea what Dragon 2 and Starliner will do.
No.12366
I'm watching episode five of STD and they've reached 31st century Starfleet Headquarters. The design choices are fucking awful and uninspired.
>hey how should Starfleet Headquarters in the 31st century look like
<let's just ramp up the Apple Store aesthetic, more clinical and minimalistic
No.12368
Okay I have bitched about STD quite a bit but the third season actually does feel a lot like an improvement. Characters are less snarky and the setting is less grimdark (although still dark but it does have some optimistic moments), and the music has improved a lot, and became one of the key elements to invoke emotion because the characters can't really do that. Burnham still doesn't work for me and Georgiou is a ridiculous character who should just be killed off because she's literally worse than Hitler and comically evil yet works for Starfleet. They're also going soft on the memberberries, although this episode has one particular big one. The fact that they draw the memberberries now from DS9 and VOY might imply that they finally got their heads out of their asses and went beyond "member Spock? Member Enterprise?"
It's super woke though. Last two episodes had a non-binary character and a transwoman. I don't particularly mind it as long as they don't go down the road of a black Mary Sue with Burnham the last seasons. The pacing is also considerably slower - the shaky cam shots and people shouting unintelligible stuff over each over during an action scene is still there but much, much less. A lot of the meat of the show now seems to be putting characters into very emotional confrontations, it has an episodical feel towards it, although it's still fully serialized, they seem to go for a "mission of the week" sort of rhythm embedded in the larger story. However, it still misses the typical moral and philosophical challenges of the old Star Trek, I've seen none so far, besides constant references to Federation values.
Can't say much about the storyline so far, although they set up some eerie mysteries that do sound strange and interesting, like the fact that nobody knows what the "Burn" was, an apocalyptic event, and that strangely everybody knows the same music piece inexplicably, there are also possible implications that they are actually not in the 31st century because some stuff feels sketchy. Problem was in the first two seasons they also gave us some mysteries but were resolved absolutely horribly, with the Red Angel being Burnham herself, that was even predicted by the retards from /strek/ back when 8chan was around. If they manage to not fuck it up, keep the pace and give us a decent resolution, this season might actually be a somewhat decent sci-fi piece - with the three big weaknesses of a) rushed character development, b) problems in regards to the suspension of disbelief with a 1000 year old ship standing their ground and c) some uninspiring aesthetic choices despite STD clearly focusing a lot on aesthetics this season.
It's definitely better than Picard although that's an incredibly low bar. The actress who plays Burnham tries to act her heart out this season but she is just no very well written, feel kinda sad for her.
No.12556
Watched episode 6 of STD, that was a snoozefest. Basically they now have to carry out sidequests to gather "black boxes" which may or may not contain information about the cataclysmic event called The Burn. So far it's been a "rogue planet of the week" deal, with some asshole warlord terrorizing workers and then gets taken out by Mirror Universe Georgiou due to her being a bigger asshole. The rest is "relationship building" but I still couldn't care less for those characters. There is nothing exciting or interesting about those characters, you don't want to see them being pushed to the edge because everybody is super hectic and snarky anyway.
No.12559
>>12556>they now have to carry out sidequests to gather "black boxes"man that's totally different from having to go to all the red angel sightings, I'm glad they're trying new things :)
on an unrelated not finished DS9 for the first time yesterday, what a journey!
RIP Damar, what a redemption arc god damn though the wheels clearly started to come off in S7 for everything but the war-arc. still, up to S6 the quality was much more consistent than in TNG, especially when comparing the early seasons. now that I've had peak trek I feel empty tho, from here it's all downhill
No.12560
>>12559In regards to season 7, I do appreciate that they ended it with an actual fight,
Sisko vs Dukat in the Pah-Wraith cave, and a bittersweet conclusion of both of them "dying", so it really did pave the way for fully serialized epic shows of our current times up to the end, I just think they could have moved the players into their final positions a bit more elegantly, I don't know anybody who liked this
Dukat-Wynn storyline, or liked that Dukat transformed himself into a Bajoran (I thought Marx Alaimo looked badass in that Cardassian make-up, while not being the most imposing/charismatic stature himself without it). I guess it's a somewhat logical conclusion of his ongoing obsession with Bajorans, but from a dramaturgical standpoint it didn't really work. I think overall the
increased level of mysticism and literal magic somewhat doesn't fit a Star Trek show, that includes Sisko's transformation into a black Bajoran Jesus. I think there were multiple ways to conclude the show in a better way, the writers had all the cards in their hands (there is even an alternative ending suggesting that
the entire Star Trek universe is made up in the mind of a writer locked in an asylum in the 20th century), and they didn't play it that well. It feels a bit all over place.
The war story works just as good as in season 6 though. My favourite episode is The Siege Of AR-558 in this season, they ramped up the musical score too. It's Star Trek combined with a grimdark epic war drama, but of course it actually works unlike in Kurtzman's nuTrek. The reason the all-out war works so well is because
there is no "trigger" to turn off the main villain which they constantly find to defeat the overpowered Borg, but instead it was a dragged-out conflict with all the Alpha Quadrant races uniting, admittedly with a little bit of diplomatic deception, to finally beat the Dominion by fairly outcompeting it (nevermind that divine intervention in S6E6 with the wormhole). The second reason why it feels like such an intense ride is because they spend three seasons to have a slow build-up before shit hits the fan, I like season four and five due to the gloomy feeling of impending doom that puts the Federation on the brink of destruction. Besides the Borg, they've never met an Empire that clearly is superior in might, it was about time the Federation, becoming self-rightious at times, had its comeuppance.
I actually do wish they could remake DS9 with a HBO budget and a better ending. But then again I would realize what people would be in charge of it, so better not.
No.12562
>>12560>I don't know anybody who liked this Dukat-Wynn storylineI didn't mind, a bit clunky and rushed, but the idea was well set-up ahead of time, the characters worked and it worked for the characters at that point. Bit schlockey to have literal
cursed objects with demon like aliens in them but we've had sillier on star trek. Underwhelmed by the (lack of) celestial combat with the wormhole aliens tho. Could have done more with it. But that was true of most of the show I think, they aimed big, beyond their league, and succeeded, if not perfectly. It's like that one episode of star trek with vulcan baseball team…
>there is no "trigger" to turn off the main villainYeah it's a damn shame this little trope has escaped the folklore/fantasy realm and metastasized. Very pleased they avoided that, though the supposed back and forth in the war often felt very abrupt.
>I actually do wish they could remake DS9 with a HBO budget and a better ending. They should do a new and competent space opera with a HBO budget, not remake something that probably can't be replicated. Actors/chemistry comes to mind, and the fact that you can't afford to spend another four-five seasons building up to what we know is coming.
As far as new goes the Expanse was good so far but I don't think the setting scales up, frankly. We need something with a different focus and a clean start. And a bit less gloomy overall. Orville could do it if they made a soft reboot in a next seasons, replaced the uniforms and interior decors, but for now it remains a bit too silly and slapdash.
No.12564
Friendly reminder that Deep Space Nine isn't Star Trek and Babylon Five did it better anyway.
No.12610
I tried getting into start trek, started watching one of the recent one (discovery).
It was so shit I dropped it halfway into first season. It's just bad, garbage writing, garbage plot, garbage ideology.
No.12624
>>12610>tried getting into Star Trek >so I watched Discovery Anon… please don't do this.
No.12726
I'm personally betting on the collapse of capitalism around midcentury by my calculations, boss. The rate of profit still has room to fall. Maybe it'll last longer. Hard to say.
But really capitalism is like the Borg. People say the Ferengi are the capitalists but nah, they're just the small merchants and traders wandering around. The petit bourgeois, destined to be assimilated. Capitalism consumes everything, commodifies everything, absorbs everything including whole countries and cultures and ideologies (which is why they have no problem selling you a t-shirt with Che Guevara's picture on it). As long as it smells like money. And then they plug the "drones" into a VR simulator called liberal ideology.
Look at Uber. (Uber of Borg.) They don't make anything. They don't even make a profit. The investors make a profit, but that's because it's just a "vehicle" to recapitalize their money into a firm that just destroys everything else like the Borg. They have destroyed and assimilated the taxi cab companies which had unions for this worker-drone army of "independent contractors" who they can pay less. Now Uber is destroying the entire restaurant sector because Uber Eats "eats" the margins that these restaurants depend on to survive. Uber is not part of the productive economy in that sense, it's part of the financial economy and like a giant vampire or scary space robot thing is just going suck up everything into itself. Really though, it's profitable for the investors specifically and the destruction of the productive economy by Uber and many other companies like that functions as a massive wealth transfer to an unproductive class of parasites, devouring its host.
Indeed, capitalism is heading for a major crisis.
https://youtu.be/vPzJSBHG4pI No.12781
Pleasantly surprised about Voyager, every epidode has been a good old space adventure, very little cringe so far. No real compelling characters tho. Very much a TNG throwback
No.12782
>>12781Much like Data in TNG, the doctor is the most interesting Voyager character.
No.12783
>>12781If you already like VOY, you'll be in for a joyful ride. By the end of season three, the stakes will rise a lot, and season four and five are the best of the series. A new fan-favourite character will be introduced. The end of season 3, season 4 and 5 in VOY rival peak TNG in my view.
No.12866
Question: I just watched the Voyager episode that had space amoebae try to fuck the ship, and in the episode it is noted that Neelix's gf (of whom he is very jealous and protective) is less than two years old. Also he wanted to have a daughter with her who "looks exactly like her".
Does that make Neelix a nonce and a sicko?
No.12875
>>12866With Kess? The way I understood it they just age really fast.
>Does that make Neelix a nonce and a sicko?He is most definitely a sick fuck. Afaik most fans of the show dislike him somewhat, as a comedic relief he's lame and as a character he falls short. If I had to do a ranking:
>The Doctor >Seven of Nine >Chakotey >Janeway>Tuvok >Kess >B'lanna Torres>Harry Kim >Tom Paris >Neelix No.12922
>>12875True enough, it's hard to say what they were thinking with Neelix - no good angle for comedy, too bland. They should have kept the cardassian spy around to provide acerbic commentary in stead imo. Neelix is just moderately affable and useful without ever really being essential so far. Nonce complaint was mostly in jest. Still, the "age rapidly" excuse only works if you don't think about it too much - you cannot accelerate life experiences, so in that respect the unbalanced aspects of the relationship remain. But you know what, fuck it - trek needs to be weird. That's the point of nearly all the intercultural moral dilemma episodes, and I wouldn't want it any other way. It's what elevates the show, in all its awkward glory.
Only change I would make to the character ranking is maybe move Chakotey down a few pegs, though it's a close call either way. The longer I watch the more it strikes me how atypical the cast of DS9 was compared to voyager and next gen - one was nothing but big personalities, the others mostly lacking them.
No.13176
>>13173Yeah they are crappy and they ditched them for good after season 2.
No.13199
>>13177yeah I don't get that part of the prime directive tbh. if the "natural development" of a culture is about to be cut short an event [b]external[/b] to the culture, where is the harm in preventing it, if you can do it undetected?
now if the extinction is self-caused then sure, let them reap what they sowed, but that never seems to be the case with these kind of episodes
No.13222
>>13199The idea behind it is that by that species becoming extinct, a new, more intelligent species may arise. So while you may be saving one species, you might be preventing the appearance of another, also, because no other species will evolve to intelligence if there is a dominant species on the planet already. That's why the Prime Directive is about non-interference, and not about saving/not-saving a civilisation. You don't interfere, and what happens happens.
I think it is liberal to suggest that the act of one person or one ship's crew could significantly alter changes that have been developing for a long time (remember: quantitative change results in qualitative change). At best they can only delay the changes.
Of course, the counter to this claim is that people must be protected at all costs. Prime Directive is easy when it's people vs. nature, then you side with people and problem solved. But what if it's people vs. less developed people? Whose side do you go on then?
Admittedly, I don't remember the details of the episode, but TNG episodes with these kinds of questions are more about starting a debate, rather than moralising or telling you what to think. They present a problem, and because it is a TV show it has to have some sort of resolution, but that doesn't mean your conclusion at the end has to be the same as yours.
What about that Picard's decision not to genocide the Borg? What do you do then? Do you kill a whole species because they are "evil"? No, that would be liberal moralising. You kill them all because their internal organisation and their structure/way of life necessitate destruction of other life. But Picard let's them live… in a very liberal move. Damn, it's like appeasing the fascists. Then the Borg come back and kill a bunch of people.
No.13225
>>13222>What about that Picard's decision not to genocide the Borg? God, I hated that. Not Picard's decision but the fact that it ruined the Borg for me, the fact that they can be overpowered by handing them over an unsolvable Rubic's Cube.
No.13227
>>13225Data must have had paradox-protection software. Pity that the entire Borg civilization was unable to devise something similar.
No.13249
God I hate the new series of STD, they want to try so hard to have "THE UNIVERSE MUST BE SAVED!!!" stakes EVERY SINGLE FUCKING SERIES despite the fact that 1) the only series to do that well was DS9 (and that was 2/3rds of the entire show with one antagonist) & ENT:3 vs the Xindi, and 2) Star Trek works best with a 3 or 5 act structure within an episode that can, but doesn't have to, contribute to an overarching plot. Instead STD tries to do a massive overarching plot that the episodes contribute to but also still tries to do the 3 act resolution??? It's a pisstake.
At-least Picard was interesting and didn't fuck with the Lore that much at-all (although the ending triggered me so fucking hard).
No.13254
>>13249I don't think it's impossible to have a good fully serialized Star Trek series, but STD wants to be both episodical and serialized so It fails to achieve either.
>At-least Picard was interesting and didn't fuck with the Lore that much at-all (although the ending triggered me so fucking hard).I found Picard to be worse than STD.
No.13257
>>13254Picard doesn't try to be Star Trek, it feels a lot more like a spin-off series á la Torchwood or the like.
No.13261
Course: Oblivion is the best VOY episode change my mind.
No.13262
>>13222The planet was quickly becoming inhospitable for life. By not saving them and moving them to another planet, they were literally just letting them die for no reason.
No.13268
>>13261I just don't think anything beats Scorpion I + II because it's like a better, shortened TNG movie.
But yeah, Oblivion is definitely among my favourite VOY episodes. But VOY has a lot of episodes like this that nobody remembers but are actually pretty amazing. Other really good VOY episodes:
- Latent Image
- Equinox I + II (this were actually episdes the way VOY originally was supposed to be)
- One
- Counterpoint
No.13274
>>13268Fair, will add these to my rewatch list.
Also ofc, The Year of Hell is really,
really good. People give Voyager shit but it had some amazing episodes.
No.13339
>>13268Just rewatched Counterpoint, fuck I had forgotten that one, the twist hit me again. Great episode.
No.13340
So with STD we're just back in the mirror universe. This and the upcoming episodes are playing entirely in the mirror universe. They also ripped some of the aesthetic from Warhammer40k.
No.13343
Ah man, so rewatching Year of Hell pt1 from VOY, and there is this scene where Tuvok is shaving, and the thing is they have just survived an explosion. And they way they show that they've gone blind is fucking great, really good directing and acting.
No.13463
>>11613>What did they mean by this?The Benkarans live in an oppressive society and are likely something of an “internal colony” in Nygean Space
No.13865
bump for best thread
No.14158
Roast me for it, I kind of liked Lower Decks. It wasn't super great or anything, just sort of lovely with lots of references without being too crass like Rick and Morty. It honestly easily tops STD and Picard. There was absolutely no character development for Rutherford and the Orion girl, but if they are on a somewhat promising track. It's also a good way to bring the old actors back without having them embarrassing themselves in a badly written live action show.ddrDDR
No.14159
Oh, and Jack Quaid is totally typecast now. He basically plays the Star Trek version of Hughie from the The Boys.ddrDDR
No.14160
>>3320Old school star trek was too brainy to appeal to modern viewers who have been raised on transformers and marvel capeshit. You could never have a viable old school ST series today
No.14161
I stopped watching season 7 of TNG because the writing got so bad, that it was painful to keep watching.
Instead I started watching STD. First few moments I was impressed at the extremely high production value. I'm 13 episodes in.
WHAT THE FUCK. Are the writers just improvising the story? Are the people writing the scripts being forced to do so at gun point? Also, the asian Phillippa whatever-her-name-is is such a terrible actor. It's so jarring to see her shoot like that suburban lady from last year. Like is she really that high rank but somehow doesn't know how to shoot? Was there NOBODY on the set who noticed this?
Also the fucking liberalism, fucking hell. Putting aside the fact that I realized a few episodes in that I was watching a series with the "strong female POC lead" marketing, the fucking liberalism. Their retarded understanding of fascism is that of a middle schooler (at best). "Nazis wanted to do evil things because they were mean and evil". Like seriously? Oh god, such a fucking fiasco. At least I'm having fun laughing at the retardation.
>>14158Thanks for bumping. I was too lazy to find this thread but I needed to complain about STD.
No.14162
>>14161Big mistake, season 7 still had some great episodes.
No.14163
>>14162The first half was good, the second half descended really quickly into trash.
I'll watch them at your behest. Thanks for the pointer :)
I'll come back to ask when I finish Sexually Transmitted Disease what to watch next.
No.14166
>>14158>Roast me for it, I kind of liked Lower DecksNo roasting here, LD is the patrician's nu-trek. STD and Picard are awful.
No.14167
>>14161>I stopped watching season 7 of TNG because the writing got so badlol what?
No.14174
>>14167season 7 took a nose dive in writing quality. I'd have to see it again to cite specific examples. characters were way out of character and shit like that.
No.14193
>>14188What does this have to do with Star Trek?
No.14196
>>14195Oh right, Andromeda, I completely forgot about that show and that Kevin Sorbo was in it.
When I saw the post I was thinking, "Why is someone posting a tweet from that guy who played Hercules in a Star Trek Thread"?
No.14197
>>14196Honestly been watching it concurrently with Farscape, and man the difference in quality is astounding.
No.14231
>>14197>>14230Sorbos acting is mediocre and the plot is poorly written, its like the low rent version of farscape
No.14244
>>14230Characters on Farscape actually have depth, whereas Dylan is good idealistic captain Hayward is cocky wrench monkey Trance is the cooky one Tyr is the gruff warrior man (also mane the Nietzscheans are such a cool concept for a sci fi species and they just waste them).
>>14231Yeah fair, it has some
interesting concepts but god its so dull.
No.14245
>>14233Is it worth watching? They added it to Amazon prime in the UK too. w
No.14246
STD spoilers ahead:
Oh what is this person with the technology to make large EMPs and fly? There is literally only one explanation, it's from the future.
Seriously the worst fucking writing I've seen in a while, and I like to watch shit anime and shit Sci-fi from time to time. This takes the cake.
No.14252
God, the Nietzscheans are such a good concept and they are just wasted in Andromeda. AN entire sub-species of human built on geenmodding, but they don't just gene mod for the sake of it, they are a society based on the philosophical teachings of Nietzsche and believe themselves, through gene modding, to be the Ubermensch he taught of. There is such a great basis there, and they are just wasted as "backstabbing barbarian types".
No.14253
>>14245>Is it worth watching?yes for season 1, 2 and 3.
No.14715
>>14701Outside of Roddenberry's socialistic/left-liberal leanings (there is no way he didn't knew of Posada considering the story of the first contact), the writers on Trek were never socialist. During the TNG/DS9 era the showrunners were even conservatives. It's really a surprise that it turned out the way it did, largely I think because the fan community pressuring them. ST was the first show that actually a dedicated nerdy fanbase that would get really angry if they deviated from specific formulas.
While there is something endearing about late 80s need culture, the current generation in my view rather acts as a fetter for the creative renewal of Star Trek. There are no "trekkies" anymore than stand out from the cool kids, today everybody goes to fucking comic con, LARPs and soyfaces over franchises. Even chads and stacys now go to comic cons. So they don't have this unique relationship anymore between fanbase and writers that works reciprocally, but instead ST became another "franchise" where shows are produced inside the machine that is modern television mostly directed at consoomers.
Just look how many trekkies eat up all this STD shit. They don't care. The Kurtzman detractors are a small disgruntled minority.
>but the first seasons of the old shows sucked too! Yes, but even in those bad season you could see a kernel of potential, and the characters clicked. They also didn't write themselves into a corner like STD (31st century? Wtf) or Picard (Picard is a robot now????), they weaved some threads here and there but they remained flexible until they knew what worked. For example, TNG originally was supposed to have the Ferengi as the main villains but they looked too ridiculous to be taken seriously so they decided for a more menacing, mysterious enemy, which is where the Borg come from.
ddrDDR No.14724
>>14715Excellent post.
I watched TNG, I watched STD. I started watching the original series, it's a bit slow right now. Is there anything that gets to the level of TNG? Unironically one of the best sci-fi series I've seen.
No.14725
>>14724>Is there anything that gets to the level of TNG?NTA. DS9 is on par with TNG.
No.14726
>>14722It's why BSG was great.
No.14728
>>14726But that was shit.
No.14892
>>14889It is if you exclude the canon-breaking garbage in DS9.
No.14899
>>14892DS9 & Voy had to introduce some capitalism stuff to counteract all that gommie sharing crap in TNG
No.15056
>>14899Clearly the Federation was in sharp contrast to the AnCap Ferengis, and this contrast was played out in DS9 rather endearing, but you never got the feel that in terms of the "big issues" the Ferengi ideology was ever a challenge to the Federation.
In DS9 it is implied that the Federation uses labor credits, that allows you to use the transporter and replicator on Earth.
ddrDDR No.15555
>>2195God I hope lyrans are real
No.17252
>>17088How exactly is the Borg episode canon-breaking? It ties in well. VOY is far more canon-breaking when it comes to the Borg. It's a good stand-alone episode, it did not feel like fan service.
>I guarantee you nobody who disliked Enterprise followed the Shran arc all the way through or watched season 4, particularly the Kir'Shara arc and the Babel arc. They really tie the show together and put it on par with DS9 as one of my favorite series.I watched the entire series and while Shran is a good character, it's not enough. I'm not a big fan of Vulcan episodes, and ENT was filled to the brim with them, but that may have just been my personal taste (and I guess it makes sense for the 22nd century where the relationship between Vulcans and humans is still evolving). The Xindi arc was a fucking joke, it did absolutely nothing for me. At no point did I feel any emotional investment to care aboutit what's happening to them, it honestly felt more like the first two seasons of VOY where we basically follow a ship behind enemy lines exploring an unknown area of space by itself.
I guess season four works as a season except the finale, but the problem remains that it was still a setup season. DS9 did set up the Dominion War for a long time, but then it erupted in season 6, whereas ENT gets awkwardly wrapped up before the war with the Romulans starts. There is also no main villian like Dukat in DS9 except that one Romulan general nobody cared for. I know that ENT allegedly found their pace and style with the fourth season, but sorry, this was made in the modern era of television, you can not allow yourself to fail around for three fucking seasons like Star Trek tradition and then expect not to be dropped. This isn't the 80s anymore.
No.17466
>>17464Clearly you just need to read the Chakat universe books. Granted those are catgirl-centaurs, but still hot.
No.17490
https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/1410438196912017414what do you guys think about this guys thread saying that DS9 was right wing
No.18782
>>17490Unsurprisingly, a tweet shaves off all nuance.
DS9 is critical of imperialism in the Dominion, Klingon, and Cardassian plot lines. The expansionist xenophobes ultimately get saved by their enemies.
No.18796
>>18782It always bothered me how
In The Pale Moonlight was resolved. I know it's considered one of the best DS9 episodes, but it's literally Sisko doing an American-style false flag and justifying it to himself in the end. This is especially concerning because this in the context of it being revealed that the first Iraq War was based on a staged false-flag.
No.19345
>>18055Based as fuck. I love that Trek had so many numerous acknowledgements of the USSR
No.19346
>>17466>Chakat universe booksThe main site is mostly dead though
No.19460
>>19458I guess, but good luck pulling that off.
No.19467
>>2207>DS9>Peak Star Trek. Has plenty of high-concept sci-fi, but handled by actual characters, against a backdrop of regional galactic politics that can develop instead of previous shows being almost completely isolated episodes.I will maintain to my dying day that "Duet" is *the* finest episode of television ever filmed.
Plus, DS9 has an episode where a Ferengi earnestly and sincerely quotes Marx. That was a fun scene.
>I second this >>1870 for the order but note that you definitely can skip around TNG, which has some fucking cringeworthy early episodes before they figured out what they were doing with the series.I'd argue it was less "figuring out" and more "waiting for Roddenberry to stop vetoing good ideas". It's no coincidence that the end of his micromanaging due to poor health, and the dramatic increase in script quality, both happened at the same time between seasons 2 and 3. I've often felt like seasons 3 and 4 were of such quality because they were made up of 4 whole seasons worth of good ideas, compressed down into 2.
No.19564
>>14889DS9 purposefully changed things because they didn't want it to be a utopian society anymore.
No.19577
>>14889Why didn't they just replicate a baseball card ?
No.19625
>>19577>Why didn't they just replicate a baseball card ?You see, Data, humans appreciate things that are genuine, for sentimental reasons.
No.19626
>>19625>genuinewhat's the difference ?
don't replicators make atomic scale accurate replicas ?
People in the star trek future will still care about rarity, when they haven't used markets and money for centuries ? Capitalists say that their value system is transcendental, on an ideological level however we know that value perception is related to economic structure. If you lived in a society based on a economy that functionally has no scarcity because you can make perfect replicas of everything you could ever need there is no point in perceiving the original of something as different than a perfect copy.
>sentimental reasons.The concept of the original is only valid in our world because we can't make perfect copies, and if we loose an original we lose information, so it's not a sentimentality for us to care about preserving artifacts, but it will be in a future with replicators.
No.19628
>>19626>don't replicators make atomic scale accurate replicas ?Are you actually autistic? It's possible to recreate any Van Goch painting if you are a crafty artist in the detail, still not gonna be the same.
>People in the star trek future will still care about rarity, when they haven't used markets and money for centuries ? Capitalists say that their value system is transcendental, on an ideological level however we know that value perception is related to economic structure. If you lived in a society based on a economy that functionally has no scarcity because you can make perfect replicas of everything you could ever need there is no point in perceiving the original of something as different than a perfect copy. Fucking lol. Artworks even in capitalism can easily be reproduced, but the art commodity is fundamentally different because it requires the creation by an artist which makes it an absolute monopoly.
>The concept of the original is only valid in our world because we can't make perfect copies, and if we loose an original we lose information, so it's not a sentimentality for us to care about preserving artifacts, but it will be in a future with replicators.We pretty much fucking can make perfect copies (just not with replicators) yet people still appreciate the original. Any smith today can produce you a sword far better in every aspect than an actual sword from the middle ages but the latter is still what's appreciated in collections and museums.
No.19771
Will DS9 be as inspirational as TNG was? By inspirational, I mean, hope for the future, being the best possible version of yourself. I know it's supposed to be a lot darker but I find it hard to believe that people prefer DS9 over TNG if DS9 is just Zack Snyder's Star Trek.
No.19772
>>19771DS-9 is not as futuristic IMO and is a bit less ideal, but still had good messages and ideas.
No.20064
>>19628atomic precision replicators would allow you to copy paste objects like computer files, that's different than just making really accurate replicas. It's like going from analog to digital, it was big deal for data and it will be an even bigger deal when that happens for other objects.
>>19771TNG is better, but DS9 is still good
No.21063
>>21060 Ah damn I came here to post this. Nice.
>>19513Based and Spess Ket pilled. see earlier thread posts on it.
No.21363
>>21362just an ok episode with psychological themes, Sisko has to figure out what the real reality is. It was a nice fan service for showing the main cast without the monster make up.
No.21364
New Discovery season started btw.
No.21366
>>21364The last one put me to sleep, it was full of holes and inconsistencies and the "resolution" to this big bang shit or whatever disabled the warp drive was completely insignificant. Honestly feel sorry for the lead actress, she really tries to act her heart out but her character is so unlikeable and she probably botched her career with this.
>>21362As an episode, it was nice fan service. For it's message, it's a bit too much bleeding heart liberal for me. The problem with DS9 is that they didn't know how to wrap it up in season 7, so they keep making references to how the entire Star Trek universe is actually just in the head of a writer, but went nowhere with it.
In general DS9 had amazing potential to be one of the best shows of all time if it were done with a HBO or Amazon budget and dedicated writers that go for full serialization. Imagine DS9 being executed like The Expanse. They were sadly ahead of its time.
No.21367
>>21363Marc Alaimo must be the only person who looks a bit ugly IRL but looks weirdly enticing under a Cardassian make up. Not gay btw.
No.21376
>>21366>For it's message, it's a bit too much bleeding heart liberal for meReally? There were far more liberal episodes than this one. The one where the message was basically Great Man theory, in the same season, was an example.
No.21406
>>21375He was the first Cardassian to be shown on stream, in TNG. It would have been cool if they revealed in DS9 that this guy actually was Dukat and just gave the Federation a fake name.
>>21376Idk, it really does not have another message other than "racism bad". But there even was a Stalin reference in the episode now that I remember it.
>>21377Yep, socialist states never did soemthing on that scale even when they crushed rebellions. To make matters worse, he also did it due to personal honor because he felt betrayed, not even for the cause itself. To lie the Romulans into a war with a false flag was also pretty bad, especially considering that episode aired after it was revealed that the Nayirah testimony that led to the first Iraq War was fake.
The problem with Sisko is that the writers back then didn't know how to write a grey character in television. In one episode he is literally space Jesus with an almost inhuman amount of rightousness and valor (like Picard), and then he does fucked shit like this within a heartbeat. This leaves not a very rounded out impression, but they got the right actor for this, because Brooks comes over as a bit crazy too if you ask me.
No.21407
>>21406Ever shown on screen*
My fucking god, e-celebery has to rot my brain
No.21421
>>21420Is Lower Decks genuinely funny or is it just a zoomer's attempt at bashing and strawmanning old Trek?
No.21423
Embedding error.
>>21420>>21421It's Rick and Morty Zoomr humor that does the tired "cartoon parody (but not really)" trope.
See Embed related
No.21561
>>21375God he even looks smug irl.
No.21572
>>21560the voices sounds almost like the real ones, very nice
No.21602
>>21362Those episodes felt forced and out of nowhere
No.21823
This thread made me start watching TNG.
Don't watch shit on websites with names like watch-series, use Pirate Bay like a sensible person.
No.21828
>>21823Why? I like it convenient.
No.21838
When's a good time to start watching DS9? I'm on season 5 of TNG as of now.
>>21823>piratebayIf your looking for tv shows or movies, use rarbg. L337X also replaced piratebay as the go to general torrent site, piratebay isn't as vetted as L337X is.
>>21828Quality is better when you torrent, also you don't get bombarded with shitty captcha or porn ads as much.
No.21839
>>21838After season six I think. DS9 starts right after the evacuation of Bajor by the Cardassians.
>Quality is better when you torrent, also you don't get bombarded with shitty captcha or porn ads as much.Yesmovies is always in HD and almost no ads, although I'm not sure if they have Star Trek.
No.21843
>>21838>When's a good time to start watching DS9? I'm on season 5 of TNG as of now.Might as well watch it after. The tonal difference is severe and I feel like it'll work better if you watch it after the finale.
No.21844
>>21843Agreed. Also DS9 takes a while to figure out the characters etc.
No.21845
Better yet: don't watch DS9 at all and just watch Babylon 5.
No.22017
>>22015How did you like the series overall?
No.22021
>>22017I loved it and it was genuinely what I expected for an experiment where Star Trek is pushed to the limit. There's a lot of flaws here and there, some reactionary elements I didn't like, but it makes up for it with the high peaks that surpasses TNG at times. It balances out like that. DS9 and TNG should be about the same, with DS9 being marginally better for me at some parts.
However, I got really disappointed at the ending. I've had such high expectations since Sacrifice of Angels, which might possibly be the best climactic episode in the series. I didn't really feel a sense of catharsis as I did with All Good Things or Sacrifice of Angels. Gul Dukat's development after Waltz was literally the most retarded thing I've ever seen. I know a lot of people seem to like the finale of DS9 but I really wanted more. It had a lot of good moments but overall I wish it ended differently.
No.22116
>>22101"Critics" and viewers do seem to like this show. I have no idea why, it's awful and it's plotlines are neither interesting nor Star Trek-ish. At least with The Last Jedi I thought a lot of people disliked it.
But wanna know something? The new Picard show is worse. There is no way STD can ever reach levels of debacle "ST: Picard" was.
No.22152
>>22116>Star Trek-ish. The Orville is startrekish, if you haven't, watch that
No.22406
Embedding error.
It really shows just how bad the writing is on STD. I mean they always try to shoehorn in Mikey Spock into everything to make her the center of the universe.
No.22594
>>22593Lol what ?
No, they don't make space stations out of rebar concrete.
No.22616
>>22601>Totalitarian IdealismShould have expected the most retarded autistic answer would be top
No.23388
Bump
New picard out
Qannon @ the end
No.23410
>>23388Did they just memory hole the fact that Picard is now a robot?
No.23430
I watched the new Picard episode, and it's just sad. I feel sorry for both Patrick Stewart and the other actors surrounding this, who probably give everything they can. Patrick Stewart is too old. He is slurring and looks like propped up mummy. The story is a mess. The entire series relies on memberberries.
No.23431
>>23430>The entire series relies on memberberries that's good, I'll have to remember that phrase.
>>23410 probably a retcon
No.23432
>>23410>>23431One character references it and it's never addressed again. They think "he's a robot but has an expiration date" is enough resolution to not bother with it any more.
No.23438
Spoilers ahead.
>Picard is old as shit, yet he still gets hit on by his younger, attractive Romulan maid, who he rejects
>all his new friends, the psychotic nerd chick, the sword guy, the Han Solo knockoff, the women who lived in a trailer, are now big shots in Star Fleet
>Seven of Nine is a cold-blooded mercenary but gets bullied because she is Borg, although she herself has a hawkish anti-Borg rhetoric
>Picard gives a Biden-like speech at Starfleet Academy
>Whoppie Goldberg returns as Guinan, but she doesn't look like in Sister Act but like she just got dragged off The View - the explanation for this is that she made herself older and fatter to fit better into human society (wtf?)
>anomaly of the week happens
>some strange civilization wants to talk to Picard personally
>Spanish Han Solo chainsmokes in the captain's chair (isn't that hazardous?)
>it's the Borg
>they wanna negotiate
>Borg Queen beams on board, looks like Batman
>Borg Queen assimilates the entire fleet by ramming a tentacle in the console
>Picard wakes up in his mansion
>Q appears, makes himself older because otherwise it would be disrespectful
Who writes this shit. This is abysmal
No.23439
>>23432>They think "he's a robot but has an expiration date" is enough resolution to not bother with it any more.It also implies - which used to be a huge fucking deal in some of the episodes before - that your entire being can be reduced to data that can be implemented in a microchip. You'd think that your mind - the way it is - died because it can not live without the biological brain. It's like uploading the mind of an adult monkey into a toddlers brain (they have about the same neurological capacity), it won't work.
In TNG they had an entire episode where they debated if Data was truly alive. In ST:P, "Jay-L" just uploads his brain to a dying body (wtf?? if you wanna be mortal at least get a young body), no prob.
No.23440
Also, what happened to the promise that "Picard" would be much slower in pace, more of a slow-burn with a build-up?? It's only pew-pew Star Wars-like action. It's only "slower" in comparison to STD, where it's 90% action with a shaky cam, lenseflares and characters rapidly screaming over each over (while still dropping puns).
Action has its time and place but for example, that reintroduction of Seven of Nine where she fights off unknown aliens for no reason at all (they are racist and wanna kill her bc she Borg? no idea) was completely unnecessary and unrelated to the plot.
No.23448
>>23438>Spanish Han Solo chainsmokesPurists were sperging about this as Roddenberry was anti smoking lol
No.23449
>>23440She has a ton of high end borg implants that the bad guys want
No.23453
>>23448It's not about to have to adhere to Roddenberry's autism 100%, sure, people can smoke. It's just that a guy with tons of macho bravado being in the captan's chair smoking a fat cigar like some American general in WWII is somewhat antithetical to Star Trek plus I wouldn't smoke that shit with highly sensitive devices around them.
No.23472
Well fuck me, I actually kinda liked the second episode of Picard in season 2.
Spoilers ahead
Sure, this story has been a dozen times in Star Trek, somebody changed something in the past, completely screws up the present, and they have to go back in time to fix it. But I prefer it if they just stick to the usual stuff instead of coming up with batshit insane stories like last season. Some weaker plot pots are resuced by the old guard playing off each other, Patrick Stewart, John de Lancie, Alice Kruge. I guess the old automatisms still work. The new cast however still feels disjointed and out of place. But heads up, they might have killed that annoying sword guy who can't act. Also, the fucking Borg Queen is now part of the team. Wtf.
No.23536
>>23472 (me)
(Spoilers ahead)
I didn't like the third episode at all. Even though the regurgitated plot from the fourth movie is usually it safe bet, they didn't take advantage of it at all.
1. The Borg are already ruined since VOY, but the decision to make the Borg Queen a mixture between the Terminator and Cersei basically renders them comic book villians. Alice Kruge still manages to kill it, but Patrick Stewart can't keep up. Alison Pill is actually a decent actress, and I don't understand the hate she is getting.
2. The woke shit is ridiculous. Like, it#s not even implicit, it's done very lazy. The social critique Star Trek always had is bogged down to platitudes, but hey, they managed to sneak in the term "contradictions" - maybe some Maoists will like it. There is also the implication that an entire hospital in the USA can work basically illegally in one of the biggest cities of the country.
3. Even though it was fast, they managed to implement some anti-vaxx shit. Unless I am mistaken, and that this was unironically supposed to be advocating to get vaccinated, they can still fuck themselves either way. Either you are some MAGA-hat anti-vaxx boomer or some liberal fool with three needles in their twitter handle, both is cancerous.
4. Did the budget got cut? Raffi's tricorder was literally just a Samsung S20.
5. The cliche of a macho hero waking up after being injured (by the way, it's not humanly possible for your skull to not crack after a 5 meter fall on solid concrete) only to be treated by a super hot female doctor who openly hits on you is incredibly sexist and feels totally misplaced in a "woke" show like this.
6. There is literally no way the American military, or the Russian or the Chinese one, would not notice a spaceship crashlanding in the middle of California and then sitting there for days.
No.23538
>>235361) The Borg Queen is actually played by a woman named Annie Wersching, she does look like the old one though. Great actress. Alison Pill was good too in this one. I think the hate is because the character has been very quirky xD, with a side of murder, up to this point. Stewart is an old man and it feels like it. He did have one notable burst of energy in the 1st or 2nd episode when he dressed down minor Confederation character. That was nice, he didn't seem dead then.
>There is also the implication that an entire hospital in the USA can work basically illegally in one of the biggest cities of the country.Askually this is fine because this is an alternative reality, the one we were introduced to into DS9 when Sisko and friends go back in time. Note the references to "Sanctuary Districs" and "UHC" cards.
>3 Are you talking the offhand mention of "vax chips"? I didn't read it as advocation but trolling conservatives.
5. pic related
6. Yeah, that was retarded. Did they literally land in the forest of Cali?
Anyways I still liked it as of E3 but my standards were beaten down so low from Discovery and the first season of Picard.
No.23593
>>23538I take back any nice sentiments in this post. Just watched E4. Absolute dogshit. If S1 was 1/10, S2 is 2/10.
No.23771
Some thoughts about the last Picard episode.
I liked it much better than the last one which was too much overt political pandering. Honestly the entire plot of Rios getting caught and Raffi and Seven trying to get him like some sort of buddy movie felt like filler. It contributed nothing to the story other than giving the characters something to do and to crack some jokes.
Why didn't the Borg Queen just assimilate that French cop? If she sent him into any neighbouring village where he manages to assimilate 20 more, humanity in 2024 is fucked and earth is assimilated by 2030. Plus, there would still be a collective in 2024 far in the Delta quadrant she could contact after taking over earth.
Soong plus that android actress felt like an unnecessary and convoluted sideplot that makes me suspense my disbelief. Oh yeah, Soong has some ancestor that just happens to look exactly like him, and a daughter that looks exactly like his creation a few centuries later. The only salvagable part was the Soong and Q dialog, because of the actors. You can see they are having fun revisiting their old roles again.
Can't say the same for Patrick Stewart. This man is too old. He can't even hold a small item without shaking. He slurs. He shouldn't be doing this, it's sad. Sometimes some of his old qualities shine through, but overall he can't keep up.
Oh, and I hope they fucking don't revive Elnor. That ninja Romulan deserves to stay dead. Sorry for the kid that plays him, but that character was so totally unnecessary.
No.23779
>Paramount pulling old Star Trek from Netflix to make people buy their subscription service
lol streaming is just turning back into cable
sucks that fewer normies will get to see the old Trek
No.23781
>>23779>lol streaming is just turning back into cable>sucks that fewer normies will get to see the old Trek.There's always DVD or well *ahem* seeing your friendly man with a eyepatch and a pegleg about getting some classic trek.
No.23812
>>23779>fewer normies will get to see the old TrekThey wouldn't see it to begin with given their atrocious attention spans.
No.24293
>cBS taking down review videos that are negative of their shitshow products
No.24392
Finished watching last Picard episode. They are absolutely botching the timeline, Rios hooks up with a doctor and beams her into his ship, and then doesn't even plan on taking her with him? Picard tells a random FBI agent his entire story?
Also, why does the Borg Queen want to stop the Europa mission. In this timeline, the collective is wiped out by the 25th century. If she plans on starting to assimilate humanity 300 years before first contact with the Borg, it makes zero difference to her whether that mission is successful or not. Even though they make the Borg Queen comically evil, Alison Pill sells it though somewhat.
That chick who plays young Guinan is buff as shit. I wouldn't mind getting a little empathic with her, if you catch my drift.
"Picard getting his way out of a bad situation with an inspirational speech" becomes a bit of a tiresome trope.
Seven is written much better than in season 1. But Raffi still annoys me, nobody cares about her connection to Romulan Legolas (who hopefully stays dead).
I dislike the ship design of the La Sirena. It's supposed to be Starfleet, right? It looks more like something Star Wars.
No.24434
>>23438>Seven of Nine is a cold-blooded mercenary but gets bullied because she is Borg, although she herself has a hawkish anti-Borg rhetoricShe's Russian
The Borg are the Russians in this, I can already tell without having seen a second of that gay show.
>>23448Nobody smoked in the originals. Still would have been cool, I'm sure Riker would have been a cigar smoker.
No.24468
>>24434>Nobody smoked in the originals.Honestly I don't understand people who get autistic about this. They could have smoked as they have the ability to replicate nicotine-free cigars, just like they do with booze.
No.24472
>>24468The point about the smoking is the same as TVs and radio, the point is that it's mindless consumerism - but that's a muddled message in the series.
No.24558
>Picard didn't go to space to be an explorer, he went because mom dark past guilt trauma
>the Borg don't assimilate species in their pursuit of perfection, they assimilate species because lonely sad no friends
I've read fanfictions that were more intelligent than Picard S2
No.24559
>>24434>Nobody smoked in the originals. Still would have been cool, I'm sure Riker would have been a cigar smoker.They comment on smoking in at least one episode and laugh about how dumb humans used to be.
No.24560
>>24558>I've read fanfictions that were more intelligentWhere can i find good trek-fan-fiction ?
No.24562
>>24560By sifting through the trash on ffn and I guess looking up recommendations
>>3558 Actually an interesting fanfic series I reaad is called Homo Simian by AReclusiveWriter and it's basically a crossover with Planet of the Apes (mixing in aspects of the original film series and the Tim Burton film) that I thought had been done rather nicely.
No.24579
>the Borg a good now because Jurati gave the Queen a speech about emotions
Jesus fuck. I know the Borg Queen was a controversial figure since her introduction, because it kinda betrays their unique quality of being a hivemind, but at least in ST:FC and VOY it was somewhat explained as an expression of many as one. The NuBorg Queen is an absolute bitch who needs alcohol and partying to create nanobots and gets swayed by a mere human into stopping to assimilate. Also, she commands her drones now like some kind of enslaver, instead of it being a hivemind of which she is the spokesperson.
Again, the showrunners have no idea what made something about the original ST interesting and just think of it as some kind of cheesy 80s space opera.
No.24580
Why is this show even called "Picard" he doesn't do anything. He is an absolute bitch who constantly has to be saved by others. But as the main character, everything revolves around him and his mental state, which makes him look like an annoying person.
OG Picard was very altruistic and didn't make things about personal drama, which is what made him a good commander.
>>24558All those liberals today hide their toxic personalities behind dozens of alleged mental illnesses, and that is the target audience this shit is taylored for.
>I've read fanfictions that were more intelligent than Picard S2There are a good dozen fan fictions about the Borg, their origin, their purpose, but of course it's just about feelings.
>>24564I am not sure if Picard is just too old and doesn't really recognize what is happening here, but the interviews I have seen from him he is a bit of a libshit, so he might be in on everything.
>high budget that goes almost entirely to the aging star, leaving the sets and props looking cheapEvery other ST show would have been stunned by such a budget but the way "Picard" manages to spend it is awful. Every episode looks like that there is something really expensive, but then the actual cool stuff people want to see polished looks like it was done on a micro budget. Like that fleet last season in the finale, where they just copy-pasted the same ship model.
No.24581
What truly frustrates me is that all this shit will be considered "canon" by the brand Star Trek, making any good ST show that tries to reconnect with some established lore completely impossible in the future.
Honestly, even JayJay had the decency to create an "alternative timeline" that doesn't rape the original world building.
No.24599
I like star trek discovery ,its my first trek so my opinion doesnt count but i am half way through season two and its good ,season 1 was way worse though.
Outside the musk cringe its not too bad
My question is where did the whole star trek is falgsc came from?
The federation seems like a un type organization and the klingons have a weird class society despite being able to develop super weapons
No.24607
>>24599The 2 last shows of the star trek franchise STDiscovery and STPicard are very different from all the previous shows. The old trek displayed a very optimistic version of the future. Humanity had solved all of it's social and economic problems. Even the interactions between people with strong disagreement always remained cordial. Serious conflict in the show came from outside, either from hostile aliens or a hostile environment.
The recent installments of Trek are very dark, and nothing of the optimism remains, People behave more like they do today, than they would in a quasi utopian future basically nobody suffers any serious hardship.
Many people consider Discovery and Picard as generic action scifi, only star trek in ascetics and name.
i kinda agree with thatThe animated series Lower Decks still feels like old star trek (in a good way) and the non-trek franchise show The Orville does too. You could also watch the old trek shows, it's worth it imho. Most old trek is standalone episodes and the story arc is concluded at the end of the episode. So mind the different viewing experience and adjust your expectations. If you can do that you'll probably enjoy it more.
No.24615
>>24607DS9 broke with the "no conflict" rule and benefitted from it, and also had some grimdark elements. Although tbe conflict they had was always solvable, it was more like getting used to different alien culture that are not in the Federation, but they all stuck together by the end.
In STD and Picard it's not even about learning from strange cultures, but it's all about everyone's feelings. It's individualism and centering the world around your own mental issues. Even Picard, a character liked by everyone as a very altruistic and upstanding person, looks annoying here.
No.24635
>>24615>>24607>>24599STD was so painful to watch, holy shit.
The production value looked really expensive and well made, but everything else was trash.
No.24703
What a disappointing ending. The Borg are libs now. Space Legolas is back. Seven and Raffi have a lesbian relationship now. Picard marries his housekeeper.
The season had one good episode, episode 2; and that's it.
No.24842
I liked the first episode of Strange New Worlds. It has its issues, but so far it has been much better than STD and Picard.
No.24849
>>24599What did you like about Discovery?
No.24850
>>24842People said the same about Picard S2's first two episodes and now it's regarded as even worse than S1. I'm torn between wanting to give SNW a chance and being extremely wary that they're already doing
>remember Spock>remember Kirkreferences
No.24970
Second episode of SNW wasn't too great, they didn't explain the mystery box that was the comet. But not a bad episode eother, it felt like average VOY episode. The show also has some pretty great visuals. Actors are mostly on point. I think the chick that plays Uhura is my favorite, even though she looks nothing like OG Uhurua and they gave her another tragic backstory which is what they do for every character I guess, she has an interesting acting style.
From the preview it looks we are getting some Twilight Zone transporter freak accident with low key horror elements. I am looking forward for it.
>>24850Well it's ab episodic show with an overall main story around Pike's vision. The problem with STD and Picard was that they wanted to write a completely serialized space opera, and failed miserably by setting up multiple mystery boxes but didn't what to do with it. Jurati becoming the Borg Queen? Picard becoming a robot? It's like they write themselves into a corner everytime. But you don't have that danger with SNW, I would hope.
No.25176
So that last episode of SNW felt weird as fuck. It certainly would have helped if we actually cared about that first officer before, we don't know anything about her, and now she's revealed as an augment. I was hoping for some creepy freak transporter accident not some fucking light disease. Spock/Pike dynamic works well though.
No.25177
>>25176 (me)
Also this reference to lockdowns and shit was an unncessary reference to COVID.
No.25179
>>25176>>25177They are scientists they would've called it "quarantine protocol" not a "lock-down" that's the word used by prison guards when they have a prison riot.
Lock-down is when security.
Quarantine is when biology.
The reference to COVID would've been slightly less on the nose with the Q-word. But it could've been worse they could have made everybody wear sunglasses as light masks. It's not wrong from them to put that in the episodes, but reference to real-world events should not be literal. What bugs me is that the quarantine didn't work, everybody on the ship got the light virus anyway. That's sending the wrong message, quarantines do work. Once they figured out that it was the special light they should have been able to track all the infected and beam them into a quarantine zone, and have medi-personal in protective gear tend to them. There was a missed opportunity to rise above current politics and have a criticism of an ill prepared society that failed to contain Covid.
Another problem was that the Doctor had no reason to suggest a quarantine after he did not find any biological pathogens. The next logical step would've been to suspect some kind of environmental hazard. At least have somebody re-tech the science-scanner and look for funky particles emanating from the planet or the giant storm cloud.
Star trek has always had energy-life forms so it does make sense for there be a light disease even if that's probably just science fantasy. Chimera antibodies jumping over to other people that's science fantasy as well. Better would've been to make it a retro-virus. There are some scientific speculations about bioengineering the immune system to create ad-hoc retro viruses to fight infections. That would be a cure that can jump to other people. As a scifi writer you don't have to make up pseudo science gobbledygook, there is an neigh infinite trove of scientifically plausible speculations as footnotes in scientific literature already that will fit almost any plot. Maybe somebody needs to aggregate it and make a website with a plot-devise generator for writers.
This episode gave Officer Second In Command the super-powers of super-strength and super-healing. I'm not sure how wise that is. Like overpowered technology, it could create plot-holes in the future, like the crew struggling to overcome adversity that shouldn't be a problem anymore.
>So that last episode of SNW felt weird as fuckIt was an OK episode, the only thing that they fucked up is the framing around augments.
They could have made an argument that star-fleet should not be discriminating on the bases of genetics, because that's a arbitrary criteria and the basis for judgment should be about what a person does, and what principles they uphold.
But they chose to combine an aristocratic superiority-complex with a persecution-complex, the subtext is that BIO-humans are bigoted against GMO-humans out of resentment of their betters, who managed to use biotech for good instead of creating the Overlord Ubermensch that did a eugenics war. Basically Augment-idpol.
What the Captain did was correct, defending his officer because she was one of the good ones is correct, she was defined by her actions, and outlawing the practice of eugenics is correct as well, because what Kahn did was bad. The philosophy of star trek has always been that good people are good because they DO the right thing, and what they ARE, is irrelevant.
The main point in this episode is to rehabilitate genetic engineering. Technology is neutral, good or bad outcomes depend on the purpose and people that wield it. The concept of people terraforming them self to live in different biosphere is interesting as well. Could be a set up for a changeling origin story too.
The planet with the dead civilization, was a warning to not be too eager to change your self to fit the expectations of others. Also the doctor didn't download the updates for the teleporter, and that's bad. It's blunt but true, when you live inside of technology, updates that patch glitches are a matter of life or death.
No.25435
>>25358They completely subvert the message of the original TOS episode where Kirk refuses to kill the Gorn and it is revealed that they were just thinking that they defend their territory. The monostrosity of the Gorn was a red herring, that no matter how scary and vicious your enemy looks they have their own reasons to act like they do.
The Gorn in SNW were portrayed as the asbolute evil with no room for redemption. This betrays the original humanistic message and establishes a gung-ho logic of "kill or be killed" without ever considering the possibility of negotiations. However, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt to fix this later, as I am sure we will encounter the Gorn again and La'an facing her demons.
>They're still leaning in the TV-trope of tragic character backstories tho.It's also all mental illness they struggle with. This was already an annoying feature in STD and Picard and it makes them look like a bunch of pussies who probably should never have passed an evaluation for Starfleet.
>They are doing ensemble tv show character balancing, the hero from last episode gets rescued by the people she saved in the previous episode. Well that's the problem of a prequel and Pike knowing exactly when his demise will happen, it's hard to feel danger for those characters.
It's much, much better than STD and Picard but since its the same people at the helm who also did the latter two I am remaining hugely sceptical.
No.25449
Wonder how they'll fuck up the designs of caitians and the GORN, if they ever make an appearence.
No.25451
>>25449In TOS nobody has ever seen a Gorn before, if they do show them it would create a lot of continuity issues.
No.25453
>>25435>They completely subvert the message of the original TOS episode where Kirk refuses to kill the Gorn and it is revealed that they were just thinking that they defend their territory. The monostrosity of the Gorn was a red herring, that no matter how scary and vicious your enemy looks they have their own reasons to act like they do.Maybe it's a set up for a redemption arc, and they learn a lesson about avoiding black and white thinking.
No.25455
>>25452I meant before that episode, allegedly. In SNW there is Uhura, Kirk's brother and Spock on the Enterprise, so it's unlikely that they told Kirk about the Gorn if they ever gonna encounter them face to face. I guess they can always slap the deus ex machina "it's classified" on it like they did with every continuity issue so far.
I'm not an autist who cares about 100% consistent continuity but it still annoys me when the writers don't even try to be consistent. If it's a prequel with all the memberberries you kinda set yourself up claim to keep it straight as much as possible.
The Klingon explanation in Enterprise and DS9 was weak as fuck as well, with the forehead ridges. But at least it showed effort by the writers to straighten it out just a little bit, but NuTrek constantly memory holes things and then start a new show with a supposed blank slate but it never really feels like that.
And I say that as someone who thinks so far that SNW is miles better than STD and Picard. In Discovery they had a chance to just start from scratch, with a new ship, and a new crew, and that the main character isn't the captain but the first officer sounded like a refreshing premise. But then they had to shoehorn in that Spock actually has an hysterical black adopted sister with a gender-bending name who is in a constant identity crisis. Just, why.
However I will give props to the actor who plays Spock, at least in SNW. He really does nail it. Much better than the dude who played him in the JayJay movies. I also like the actress who plays Uhura. Pike also works. I'm unsure about La'an and that first officer lady.
>>25454The catch of the episode was not that the god of the week was a dickhead, but that the Gorn actually was right and the Federation violated their territory. That is a message that we need more of, especially in times like this.
No.25563
Saw this comment on Reddit (yeah, I know, shut up). Nothing could kill my interest in SNW quicker than seeing it compared to Ted fucking Lasso, one of the smarmiest, most saccharine baby shows ever to darken television.
Classic Trek wasn't dopey or consolatory, it pushed the envelope on diversity, ethics, politics, you name it. Not revolutionary, but it was thoughtful at least. I hate this revisionism that Trek was meant to be a warm happy escapism blanket to take you away from all the dreadful news out there in the real world. It's just as bad as DIS and PIC turning into mindless action movies, just in a different way.
No.25565
>>25563DIS and PIC
more like
PIS and DIC
No.25767
I've only seen the second episode of SNW so far and imo it sucked. If you're grading it against all of Star Trek it was fucking terrible, but against nuTrek alone it was at least serviceable. It at least feels like star trek, but like a star trek ad lib without any sort of thought put into it.
Everyone involved in the story acts like an idiot, from Pike on down. The Enterprise shouldn't even have been involved, and in involving them Pike endangers his ship and his crew over something that had nothing to do with them.
Yes there's an episode of TOS where Kirk and co are basically on the same mission to save a bunch of space indians, but that doesn't make it okay. There's an episode of TOS where Kirk tacitly approves of the US getting involved in Vietnam, so.
I'm not planning on watching any more and only saw this ep because my brother made me. Compared to STD and PIC though it at least wasn't a giant pile of shit. The best thing I can say about it is that it at least has the potential to become something better, but I'm definitely not going to be holding my fucking breath on that.
No.25922
>>25455>However I will give props to the actor who plays Spock, at least in SNW. He really does nail it. What? The coffin they're burying Spock in?
No.25958
>>1863>the captain is a womanizing caricature TBHand it's hilarious
i strongly recommend tos
here's a scene where dr. mccoy smacks a pregnant woman (and was right to do so) but even kirk is like "dude what". you just don't get entertainment like this anymore, it was a different time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y106q11lkiA No.25960
>>2226>you could have Michael say something like gonna stop you right there, don't have michael say anything, just blast her out an airlock. i don't need smug future girl telling me what to think. show don't tell
No.25962
>>3423an episode of tng explains this. a progenitor race seeded the galaxy with genes intended to produce sentient humanoids. explains why all the races look similar and all emerged around the same time.
No.25963
>>3426maybe some people just want to pick grapes, i dunno man people are weird. in a utopian society even if you didn't need people picking grapes you wouldn't stop them if they wanted to. and some people amongst all the tens or hundreds of billions of us would want to pick grapes so whatever. maybe they're training to be horticultural scientists and they need some time in the field to learn the basics of horticulture. or they're people interested in starting their own grape farms or thinking about it.
>>3668this is from barlowes guide to extraterrestrials. great book. takes famous aliens from classics of science fiction literature and draws them out in a realistic way.
No.25966
>>5282prime directive is pure collectivist nonsense that utterly rejects the value and struggle of the individual. people living their lives in squalor and shit dying of horrible diseases and unnecessary conflict all while an invincible battleship hovers above them unseen with all the power and capability to ease their suffering in the most enlightened and competent ways possible. but all those billions must suffer in order to make sure the alien culture develops properly which apparently means with literally zero guidance. when they eventually develop warp drive they end up assimilating into the federation monoculture anyways so really what was the fucking point. just awful. the ferengi are right to refer to the prime directive as barbaric and cruel, even though the episode in which they say that they're implied to be wrong, they're not.
>>5290the threshold of warp travel makes sense for this reason: once they develop warp they open themselves up to alien cultures soon after anyways so keeping their culture isolated and unique is no longer possible. so might as well introduce ourselves.
No.25968
>>14715>During the TNG/DS9 era the showrunners were even conservatives. It's really a surprise that it turned out the way it did, largely I think because the fan community pressuring themin reality star trek isn't liberalism or conservatism it's idealism, and many of those ideals are universal in appeal.
No.25974
>>25966>prime directive is pure collectivist nonsense that utterly rejects the value and struggle of the individuallol i'd like to see individual struggle against meteor
No.25975
>>18796>It always bothered me how In The Pale Moonlight was resolved. I know it's considered one of the best DS9 episodes, but it's literally Sisko doing an American-style false flag and justifying it to himself in the end.On the one hand, it's a really fascinating episode that's fun to argue over. It has some great acting on the part of Brooks. In some respects it kind of seems like a continuation of the episode The Most Toys where Data resolves in the end to shoot his kidnapper, because he reasons that letting him live would just lead to more pain and suffering later on, then he lies about it when the Enterprise intervenes at the last second.
On the other hand, it definitely does seem to fly in the face of the ethos of Star Trek. Sisko's actions might be justified from a utilitarian standpoint, but it seems like by that point ST had pretty firmly settled into the idea that the ends don't justify the means. Yeah, he was successful in bringing the Romulans into the war on the Federation's side, billions of lives would be saved, billions more would be rescued from the tyranny of the Dominion, but it does do damage to the Federation's credibility as being an advanced society beyond that sort of thing, and makes the idea of Section 31 all the more plausible and firmly insinuates that poison worm into ST's utopian apple.
No.26003
>>25975>On the other hand, it definitely does seem to fly in the face of the ethos of Star Trek. Sisko's actions might be justified from a utilitarian standpoint, but it seems like by that point ST had pretty firmly settled into the idea that the ends don't justify the means. Yeah, he was successful in bringing the Romulans into the war on the Federation's side, billions of lives would be saved, billions more would be rescued from the tyranny of the Dominion, but it does do damage to the Federation's credibility as being an advanced society beyond that sort of thing, and makes the idea of Section 31 all the more plausible and firmly insinuates that poison worm into ST's utopian apple.I think the most intriguing part is that this gives Star Trek a very "materialist" basis. TNG was set in an era of peace, no major power was vastly superior than the other. Then comes DS9, and the imperialist presence of the Dominion threatens the entire existence of the Federation. As a result, the Federation is forced to make hard decisions that may or may not agree with Starfleet's peaceful, diplomatic mantra. It is easy to be a saint in paradise, as Sisko said. It is not too dissimilar to how entrenched the USSR became under the targeted eyes of the entire world during its conception. It even makes more sense when Sloan said Section 31 was conceived during the Federation's earliest beginnings, possibly an era of turmoil and vulnerability when it *needed* such an organization (I've never watched Enterprise so idk how accurate this is.)
No.26004
>>25975>>26003DS9 benefits greatly from not being preachy the way TNG sometimes was. It makes these elements a lot stronger because it forces you to actually engage with the ideas and think about things to come away with your own opinion, because what you get from the show are conflicting ideas from obviously biased characters.
No.26005
>>26004I never felt TNG was overtly preachy, at least in a scale that bothered me, in fact I recall DS9 having horribly liberal episodes sometimes moreso than TNG. I think it had something to do with me viewing the Federation as basically space USSR that won over world capitalism, and any successful, interstellar socialist society has the right to be preachy. But if you see the Federation as just the American "liberal and humanist" ideal but into practice I would definitely feel a bit annoyed by it.
No.26013
>>26003I haven't seen all of Ent, but I guess they were dealing with some "Temporal Cold War" shit as the super future Federation came into conflict with some other evil time empire, and the Federation sent back an operative to try and keep the timeline intact.
I guess I could see the need for something like Section 31 before the Federation really got going, especially since the Vulcans and Andorrians had their own secret intelligence operations going on. I think that Section 31 not getting resolved in DS9 though leaves some unfortunate implications though, especially when it was revealed that Star Fleet Command and the Federation Council (iirc) were all in on it. It would be one thing if it were something that came into existence because of the Borg or Dominion, but the whole "yeah we've been around since the beginning of the Federation" etc really undermines the whole "we're a more advanced society and we're above that sort of thing" thing.
No.26017
>>26013How realistic would a secret spy agency in a star trek setting really be ?
Currently a lot of spy agency activity gets found out by regular people having suspicions and investigating with very simple means. Once people get their hands on trek tech, hiding a spy agency might not be feasible anymore.
No.26024
>>26017I think the biggest thing in Section 31's favor is that no one in the Federation outside of the cliques already in the know at SFC and TFC are actually looking for them. Although it does seem like groups like the Tal Shiar or Obsidian Order should have had
some idea, especially when you have SF goody-goodies like Bashir that blab about them the first chance they get.
No.26096
I hated how in the last episode of SNW they treated Spock like an autistic child who needs multiple mommies to tell him what is what
No.26121
>>26097I always took "we don't enslave animals for food purposes" to mean that factory farming had been abolished. I think there's a big difference between living in a symbiotic relationship with animals and using their produce and cramming as many animals into a space as possible in horrific conditions purely for the sake of profit.
No.26122
>>26096Really kind of hating SNW and especially their interpretation of Spock.
No.26199
>>26122Pro tip: no one in star trek should fucking say "pro tip"
No.26393
While it's not technically ST, how did you guys like the new Orville season so far? It feels like they are dropping the humor almost completely. I generally like that, I watched it for the hommage and the Twilight Zone-type mystery boxes which was how TNG also worked and less for the Family Guy type jokes. But then it breaks immersion when they try to make a joke and have the captain a fucking Kermit doll on his desk.
I also can't take the Kaylons seriously as villians because they look like some pre-TOS era shit from Forbidden Planet or something.
No.26395
I really dislike the design in NuTrek. While it's clearly a decent budget, space looks too colorful and cramed. The old Star Trek always had a certain emptiness of space, darkness. I don't know because of budget issues or design choices. Sure there was the occasional nebula and all that, but generally it was a handcrafted ship modell within the dark space which was a nice, comfy contrast because the ship felt like some kind of haven within an enviroment that is very hostile to humanoid life.
Best designed ship remains to be Voyager, IMO.
No.26396
>>26121Yeah but the way he said it was pretty preachy. So was Measure of a Man tbh but that was warranted.
No.26400
>>26396I am by no means a fan of veganism but if there is a way to synthesize meat with such ease, why would you eat animals, there would be no reason other than sadism or a decadent desire for "the real thing".
Measure of a Man was basically a court drama/thriller and court dramas in the 80s were really, really preachy (see A Few Good Man and similar stuff).
No.26418
>>26393I still need to see it. I enjoyed the first couple of seasons. Not great sci fi or television, but much better than anything trek has accomplished lately.
No.26419
>>26400What better way to honor another companion that has shared the journey of life with you than when it has reached the fullness of age, compassionately putting its misery aside, respectfully preparing it, and then making it a part of yourself?
As opposed to, what, just letting an animal go on into decrepitude, then letting it rot in the ground?
It's pretty clear that meals in Star Trek serve more than the simple mechanical purpose of restoring energy and nutrients. Meals are a spiritual activity of communion, and I don't see why that communion shouldn't extend to what's being eaten as well.
No.26457
Holy shit, the last episode of SNW was a 100% rip-off of Alien and Aliens. Like, down to the minutiae. Were they trying to be ironic? Because honestly I've never seen a rip-off to the details ever before in a non-comedic way.
No.26671
The actor they chose for Kirk in SNW must be some kind of joke, has the charisma of an IKEA chair.
No.26672
>>26459>crashed ship on a inhospitable planet sends out SOS>crew investigates with shuttle craft>crew acts retarded, Xenomorph, excuse me, Gorn-infected guy chestbursts and alien jumps out>grows insanely fast, reached adolescence within hours The stuff from Aliens and Alien 3 was the little girl as the only surviver, using liquid nitrogen to freeze the creature, and so on. Also now that the Gorn are portrayed as absolutely horrifying monsters no compromise between them and the Federation can be reached which was implied in TOS.
No.26682
>>26672Ew. I'm not against referencing/homage/whatever other movies in star trek but Alien of all franchises really doesn't seem appropriate, especially when it's used that way.
No.26688
>>26682Me neither but it didn't feel like a homage (even if it was meant that way) because it was all serious and grimdark and not at all how The Orville treats Star Trek as an inspiration.
They've escalated things with the Romulans now in the last episode, maybe we got to see a Romulan-Federation war after they cancelled ENT and the looming Romulan-Earth war. But this Gorn stuff is utterly ridiculous, they should have just created a new species instead of clinging on so desperately to the memberberries especially if it's a species we have seen in one TOS episode through a guy in a fursuit that served as a plot device which we have never seen again.
Overall SNW has a lot of issues that need fixing, but it's not outright terrible like STD or Picard.
No.26957
I'm enjoying this channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/MajorGrinJust hate-comparing the new series with the older ones.
No.26963
>>26957The comment section is the worst
No.27234
>>26957I like it too, but the guy who runs it is a rightoid from Israel, that's why the comment section sucks.
No.27290
>>27279fuck intellectual property lmao
No.27298
>>27279>the culture that was literally designed as the logical endpoint of capitalism is portrayed as the evil communistsugh every fucking time
No.27461
>>25965I just learned Nichelle Nichols died yesterday, rest in peace.
No.27462
>>273001. Seth MacFarlane is an arch-liberal
2. it's anticommunist propaganda. any mention of M-R pact in Western media will ignore everything that led up to it and act like Stalin and Hitler were best buds. Nobody ever stops to consider the fact that, if Stalin had not invaded Poland at the same time as Hitler, the East half of Poland would have been occupied by nazis, all the way up to the Soviet border.
No.27468
>>27300They also referencered Kissingers domino theory. Krill leader saying that the Union shouldn't impose every universal values on everyone and that they want peaceful development also gave me bad vibes, like that's supposed to be a bad statement, genuine or not.
No.27739
>>27709Trek itself largely agrees with you as the PD is usually ever brought up as a plot device so the main characters can flout it to save the day.
No.27740
>>27709Prime Directive pretty much exists as a rule to create conflict. The basis for it makes sense in theory (to prevent exploitation or accidental catastrophe like what happened with the Old World met the New World) but in practice it usually causes problems. You probably shouldn't think of it as a serious philosophical stance that you are meant to agree with, but as a plot device.
No.27760
>>27300They really did this shit? Goddamn it why!? the first 2 seasons were so good and fun.
No.27761
>>27740>>27709Read the thread, see
>>13229 No.30732
Excuse the schizo post, I thought of this while on shrooms:
Q omniscience works via uncertainty principle. Q might know everything that will happen in a timeline, but only if he's not in that particular timeline. Being in a timeline and interacting with someone causes it to diverge into a different timeline, but in ways that Q can't predict while being inside that particular timeline. He can't know what timeline he's actually in until he rises "above" it to see where it goes (confer Flatland). If a Q never interferes with the universe, it's boring because they already know what's going to happen; so the only way they can achieve novelty is by fucking with timelines. I guess you could say their omniscience is far-sighted, and they take advantage of that limitation to entertain themselves for an infinite amount of "time". Like, I know if I play roulette that ball can only stop in the slots on the wheel, so theoretically I shouldn't want to play because I already know the outcomes and their probabilities; but when I land 19 red twice in a row, ,even knowing it's statistically possible, I still get excited because I had no idea when it would happen even if I know it WOULD eventually happen.
No.30735
>>30732Makes sense.
You can't have omniscience and free will at the same time because you will always know what you are going to do. To be able to make choices how to interact with things, you have to at least not be able to know what you are going to do next, and if you don't know that how can you extrapolate what happens next as a consequence of your action? Q fucks with humans because his interference creates a disturbance in the timeline that opens up the possibility for things to happen that he can't know for sure. Watching Picard and the Enterprise from afar is uninteresting because the timeline plays out in a deterministic way from Q's perspective (even if it has infinite branches, he can still see them all play out so it's just more complicated than a linear timeline, still predetermined). If he inserts himself into the timeline things become unpredictable.
No.30770
My internet friends are telling me that Lower Decks is, in fact, good.
Is it worth trying out or will it just make me feel bad like every other nutrek pos that's come out lately.
No.30841
>>30770It's decent. It's a bit ripping off Rick and Morty but without the vulgarity. The stories are episodical and are written decently enough. It kept me hooked even though I dislike cartoons. I couldn't even make it through Invincible but everyone told me that this is the best non-Japanese TV show since recently.
However best NuTrek show is the Pike show, by far. Don't go near STD and especially Picard.
No.31179
>>31178They can't!
May the Prophets and The Sisko guide you!!
No.31288
>>31178Kinda miscast though, Jadzia was supposed to be the hot one and Kira the tough warrior one but the look the opposite. Ngl before the 2000s female warriors always looked ridiculous for the character they were playing, except Gracie Jones in Conan.
No.31292
>>31288What are you talking about? Jadzia IS hot. And i don't think she would look more warriory.
No.31293
>>31292 (me)
Well, they are both incredibly hot.
No.31549
>>30770As someone who despises Nu-Trek, S1 is bad, S2 is decent, S3 is good.
>However best NuTrek show is the Pike showBest NuTrek is unironically the Orville S3, that is just straight up a new season of TNG and it fucking rocks.
Closest thing to the feel of Deep Space Nine is For All Mankind the Apple show, which is done by the DS9 Showrunner and written by the DS9 writing staff (Just watch everything on 1movieshd anyway)
No.32507
I'm here to report that Picard S03E01 still sucks, it's getting glowing reviews though. Money well spent for sure. It was very amusing watching Dr Crusher kill 2 aliens in a gunfight, double tapping a wounded one.
No.34239
Considering how much of a celebrity and important cultural figure the Sisko was to the Bajorans, I'd really have loved to see baseball take off on Bajor. It would have been great to see Bajorans walking around in the background wearing baseball caps, newly en vogue (and supplied for a tidy profit courtesy of Quark's Quality Athletic Equipment Outlet). I want an episode where Sisko has to go down to Bajor and he's surprised to find that all kinds of teams are getting set up. And being Bajorans, I bet they mix in all kinds of religious aspects to it too, like having a Vedec ritually bless the ball, or having the Kai throw the first pitch at the Bajoran World Series. Serious religious disputes arise because of arguments over rules, like whether or not it's acceptable to use lightweight composite alloy bats, or if traditional wooden bats are required. The Kai has to write to Sisko begging him to settle aspects of the game because the Vedec assembly is in an uproar over the issue of pitch timers and Bajoran society starts to fly apart because of the introduction and mass adoption of chewing gum among the youth.
No.36264
Has anybody watched Star Trek Lower Decks ?
Can anybody explain who the Pakled are supposed to be, they seem to become the main foe of the show ?
They used to be a weak species that only had tiny ships without warp and relied on trickery to get new tech from more advanced races, but now they have scavenged or looted warp-drive, good weapons and a bunch of other stuff. Their ships are large and powerful now. They also are extremely dumb while somehow being very cunning, and able to jerryrig starships from cross species hardware. ( I guess that's all plug & play ) And their social hierarchies are based on who wears the largest hat or helmet. They have casual revolutions but that only changes who wears the biggest hat. They have melted faces but can apparently survive hard vacuum… while being air breathing beings.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/PakledHere's a few videos about them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv1uhAa_M_Uhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hugb1h8ytt0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkZT9corHDgIs this species intended for symbolism or not? Their story sounds like a budget Klingon without the warrior tendencies; the Klingons received their ships and weaponry through war with an imperialist "outsider". It was through this brief conflict that the Klingons were able to reverse engineer their warpdrive, making them an intergalactic powerhouse by the 14th century Earth time, essentially bypassing the social stages usually associated with getting to warp travel capability that the Prime Directive is meant to prevent.
But for the Pakleds, apparently they don't build anything of their own and they don't really reverse engineer stuff either, they just stick parts of other ships onto theirs, maybe they found super intelligent nanobots glue that makes technology go if you just stick it together without them understanding anything, or they are idiot savants that are really good at creating technology inter-compatibility matrices and nothing else. TNG mentions a capability of programming but it was for a trap. How Pakleds were able to become spacefarers with such limited capacity towards science, is beyond me.
No.37889
>>14722>Star Wars cgi circus battles LMAO what? Do you mean Disney Star Wars? Because old star wars up until the prequels did exactly that; slow and methodical space sea-battles, although both series had their different approaches
Actually a good analysis is here
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tactics/Naval-Tactics.html No.37890
>>6811Considering how godawful Terminator Dark Fart was and how bland Abatap 2* was, I have little faith in Cameron anymore. Spielberg's Ready Player One** was just "reference; the movie" with a badly made plot that rips off every "VR" movie before it, like Tron, while pretending to be about "freedom" or some shit. Other films under his production like the Jurassic World series have been pretty lame too, so I have doubts that there would be much difference if either of those 2 made/owned Star Trek properties, rather than Kurtzman. As a side note Kurtzman is also one of the creators of Transformers 2, and CBS in general produces very shoddy series, so is it really a surprise CBS Star Trek sucks? Hollywood is all but dead at this point.
*
>>31830 Avatar thread
**
>>7701 from the Cyberpunk thread
Unique IPs: 99