No.2563
Both shit liberal series.
No.2564
Reposting some stuff about Leaves from the Vine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErmZRsCIUsEPeople always talk about Leaves From the Vine in a sad context since the scene it is in is truly sad. But I think that when Iroh sings it to the little boy crying is a lot more insightful. The song is clearly a lullaby and obviously brings joy to the boy, and has pleasant intentions. It is only sad when you interpret the song as the loss of a loved one. But if you take it literally, then its a song about someone beaten and weak from war finally coming home to those they love, and those who waited being proud of their soldier. I think Iroh used to sing it to Lu Ten on his birthday, reminding him of the fragility that humans have, and how important it is to appreciate them coming home. That it is a proud and happy day to see them walking back after being gone. I think it used to be a happy song that is sad now. I like that hopeful interpretation as much as the sad one.
>Leaves from the vine, falling so slow. Like tiny fragile shells drifting in the foam A verse about the nature of the soldier boy, as beautiful and graceful as a falling leaf in the fall. Yet still fragile enough to drift in the currents of the sea, young enough to be molded.
>Little soldier boy, come marching home. Brave soldier boy, come marching home This verse is meant to signify longing and want, pleading the soldier boy to return home. But when combined with the first verse it feels somewhat darker. Brave would be a word used to describe a fallen soldier, one who was young and helpless when he was taken to war. The song to me is the longing of a parent begging their fallen son to return home, knowing they would never see them again.
Still, from what we can see the song is not a mourning song, but an honor song; sung to honor those who fight for what they believe in, celebrating their return after fighting for their cause whether they walk on their own two feet or are carried back home to rest.
It really reminds of a similar Armenian Lullaby my father sang in my childhood, the only decent version I could find was here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw-BLCZgMQ4 It also has similar tone and implications as the famous Soviet war song written by Bulat Okujava Бери Шинель, Пошли Домой which is famously associated with the film Аты Баты, Шли Солдаты, which is about a platoon of soldiers who died maintaining their positions and halting/destroying an advance of German tanks.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StAfJ7qUqu4-
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/beri-shinell-poshli-domoy%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8-%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%88%D0%BB%D0%B8-%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B9-grab-your-trenchcoat.htmlAs a side note someone wrote an interesting addition to the lyrics of Leaves From the Vine:
Little soldier boy
Taken from home
Forced to fight a war
That is not his own.
Little soldier boy
Thought that he could soar
Brave soldier boy
Died in their war
No.2756
E;R has done 2 review series on Legend of Korra sticking to certain sections of the story. This post is about the 2nd series called Legend of Korra: Reniggings, It is a 4 part over-view of the Avatar Wan 'story arc' which is the beginning of the shit that derails the original 'Civil War' plot of Season 2 of LOK.
E;R makes plenty of good points, though he does have a lot of /pol/ jokes in his reviews.
>Legend of Korra: Reniggings Part 1-41 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5gGEWqO_Ag2 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm1S3OwCpJo3 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xcVv-m4fmU4 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYIoP2qYWXMIn Part 1, among E;R 's other points was about the Lion Turtles and how them giving bending breaks everything about bending in the Avatar universe. Rather than how it was in the original with early bender-capable people learning it by observing nature (Fire - Dragons, Earth - Badgermoles, Air - Skybison, Water - Moon) and applying themselves, now it's just magic energy manipulation. However the problem lies in more than the Lion turtles of LOK but also in the original. E;R doesn't really go into the Lion turtle in Avatar: The Last Airbender itself past what it says about how
>In the era before the Avatar, we bent not the elements, but the energy within ourselves….The problem is that the lion-turtle's energy bending in the original series was already problematic on its own. Aangs argument about killing Ozai with his past lives is an excellent prelude to the finale, however that doesn't require being on the Lion-turtle. What the Lion-turtle does is give Aang an easy way out in dealing with Ozai. It was still executed well, however Aang wasn't forced to kill Ozai (or do something like crippling him or something else), which would be a completion of his role as the Avatar and its placement of the world over the Avatar as an individual. Dealing with the fact of his tragically forced decision/action would even make for an interesting end to the series climax with Aang dealing with the after-math of it and coming to terms with it, supported by his friends.
Lion-turtles were a part of ATLA as they are seen as statues, drawings etc. over the series. But energy-bending, at least how it was executed, is a Deus Ex Machina. Even if Lion-turtles are shown in scrolls or background art, they are never talked about outside the comparison of Sokka's bravery to that of one, and their abilities are never even hinted at ever. For fictional media sometimes having a deus ex machina is allowable, but the problem is that this deus ex machina is indirect, poorly made and breaks bending lore as said.
It isn't the Lion-turtle removing Ozais energy that is the issue, but Aang acquiring the ability to do so (repeatedly), not even training for it, but just getting it, is a rushed asspull.
Meanwhile when Aang is in trouble and enters the Avatar State, it comes at a cost - he loses control. That's why he's afraid of it. From a storyline perspective, it's not a deus ex machina because he pays a price to access it. Even if he was successful at mastering the State with Pathik, then at least it would've been a skill he mastered out of his own virtue and ability. Again, not deus ex machina. Similarly, to contact Roku, Aang had to travel to Crescent Island and risk entering the Fire Nation. Again, there's a price he has to pay to do this, so it isn't deus ex machina. The Lion-turtle? Not so much. He just appears and gives Aang the key to winning. Aang doesn't have to prove himself, or suffer any trial, or anything. Energy-bending isn't a reward for his accomplishments; it's a gift. Anyone, even you or I, can save the world if the proper tools are simply given for free! The point of the hero's journey is that he earns his powers! If Roku appeared instead of the lion turtle, then, yes, it wouldn't be a deus ex machina (because Aang has already earned Roku's aid), but it would still be kind plot hole-ish and inconsistent with Roku's character. And if Roku had energy-bending, why didn't he remove Sozin's bending, since he didn't want to kill him? Why did none of the other Avatars have this bending or even know of it?
The whole point of that mini-arc was that Aang was being pressured to choose his avatar duties over his nearly wiped out culture, but he was determined to find a third option that would allow both. An anti-trolley problem solution if you will, similar to Naruto. But the problem is that he doesn't think of a 3rd way on his own or with his friends or through some sort of trial, like the show did prior, which makes this magic solution feel like a cop-out.
TL;DR: Aang was a pacifist monk kid, but also the only one able to take on a violent maniac dictator. There was a dilemma and Aang didn't solve it; either by taking the given option (killing him) or by thinking of his own option. The Lion-Turtle and its energy bending was a deus ex machina that put the origins of bending under question and provided an easy-out for Aang, making it an unsatisfactory resolution of the mini-arc.
No.2787
>>2756>Watch this literal Nazi, guysNazi Soyjak.png
No.2788
>>2756Also the point of Aang finding a way out of killing Ozai was that Aang found his own way to save the world, one which didn’t violate the principles of his already destroyed people. Sort of like how Luke found his own solution when everyone told him he had to kill Vader, whether it be the Jedi or the Emperor himself.
No.2794
>>2788and it works within the theme of the show. Aang doesn't just control the outside elements, but by sticking to his principles when difficult, controls his own spirit. Which gives him the advantage over the firelord who only sought power. Its not subtle, but that reading is too deeply concerned with the superficial and misses the point entirely
No.2795
I don't think that I'm exaggerating when I say that Zuko has one of the best character arcs in any television series, both live-action and animation.
To begin, look at his childhood; he was raised as a prince of a nation built on supremacy and waging a war for nearly a century. He was taught that he, as the nation's royalty, are simply superior to everyone else. This is made clearly by Ozai in the (admittedly shitty) follow-up comics; Ozai truly believes that he did no wrong, for he is the firelord, and what he does is right. This is very similar to how records describe someone such as Louis the 14th; he did not believe himself to be better than everyone in a modern sense; he believed that his superiority was simple fact of life. This was the idea that Zuko was raised on.
Now, we can see why he failed to turn against his father so many times. It took him ages to finally see Iroh as the man who was his father-figure and even longer to see his destiny lied not with Ozai but his nation.
No.2797
>>2795I think it does also get into the interesting dynamics of a ruling class family compared to many of the families of oppressed peoples we meet in the show. Ruling class families can almost never have bonds of love and compassion; because what ties them together is the power they hold over others. Children are warped and reformed into cruel, brutal, selfish individuals; because that is what it means to be part of the ruling exploiter class. The children must vie for the affection of their family by participating in the ruthless and cutthroat politics inherent in it.
No.2799
>>2756>TL;DR: Aang was a pacifist monk kid, but also the only one able to take on a violent maniac dictator. There was a dilemma and Aang didn't solve it; either by taking the given option (killing him) or by thinking of his own option. The Lion-Turtle and its energy bending was a deus ex machina that put the origins of bending under question and provided an easy-out for Aang, making it an unsatisfactory resolution of the mini-arc.>>2787>Nazi Soyjak.pngLily Peet and mny people have said the same i dont know why you have to post the poltard
well speaking of LoK i dont think is as bad as people say ,all the reviews i have seen tend to be butthurt ,also i dont think they used specific real llife ideologies to desighn the bad guys like normies say
No.2800
>>2799I think Korra was shit for being aggressively liberal. And they misrepresented communism something fierce, like, the benders vs non-benders thing makes zero sense for communism; it’d have made more sense if it was a bender proletariat against a non-bender bourgeoisie.
No.2801
>>2800Amon was supposed to be a mixture of radical politics of the 1920s thats why he is about equality(its worth noting that republic city was a bender oligarchy) while at the same time being funded by a car bouj(see ford) and having great speeches(and propagandist in the streets with those cones) he wasnt influenced by communists in particular
No.2804
>>2800With the class collaboration elements, the Benders vs Non-Benders thing was more like "Nazism, but the Jews actually do have magic powers and actually do rule the world, and the SS are ninjas who can disable Jew Warlocks."
More generally, the issue with Korra was that it's primary idea is "all politics is personal." Except for the nihilist, every villain is ultimately revealed to have some personal trauma (generally daddy-issues) which motivate all their actions. Actual politics (for example, at some point, I think, it is mentioned that only benders have political representation in Republic City, but this is a throwaway line) are just a general malaise of things being not perfect and perhaps there are some reforms needed, but it is just this vague background.
No.2805
>>2804this
Like Bane from the dark night trilogy and pretty much 90% of the time media try to portray 'revolutionary villains' it goes with the "populists will scam you approach" an ok message for kids but really bad for real life political theory
Another type of political villain and 100 times worst is the "ends never justify the means"see pic related
No.2810
>>2794>>2788Did you read any of what I wrote? I stated WHY this "finding a way out" is bullshit. Aang DIDN'T find a way out, he as just handed it on a plate by a Lion Turtle with very little preparation besides some background cameos and a few minutes of vague exposition.
>it works within the theme of the showAgain, I acknowledge that, IF Aang reached this conclusion himself through his dialogue with his past selves, instead of having a Desu Ex Makino handed out
>by sticking to his principles when difficult, controls his own spiritBut that's stupid because the Firelord ALSO stuck to his own principles… evil imperialist principles, but principles nontheless.
>Its not subtle, but that reading is too deeply concerned with the superficialNo it isn't, but that isn't the issue. They just wanted to have a Lion Turtle involved because it was a cool aesthetic and decided to stick it in at the end instead of figuring out a smart resolution. It's a bad writing move on a number of levels.
Luke actually found his third method, finally realizing the intent behind the vague notions of his prior mentors (Obi-Wan and Yoda) - refusing to drop to the Dark Side and following his father's footsteps, which lead to his father's hidden wavering on the edge of falling back to the Light, finally tip, and lead to him rebelling against the Emperor in a final act of redemption. As Itachi said,
"We don't know what kind of people e truly are until the moment before out deaths. As death comes to embrace you, you will realize what you are." >>2787>actually buying into "le nazi E;R" meme from twitter.<Not actually objectively watching a review of a cartoon from a story-telling standpoint and ignoring obvious JOKES
Fuck off back to tumblr.
No.2814
>>2810NTA but the Lion Turtle thing does work fine. It comes off as cheap because the audience is used to Trolley Problem logic where you simply have to pick between two choices. Aang's method of arriving at the solution is also the natural conclusion of the show's philosophy, and the writers made the 100% correct call to put the most radical use of this philosophy as a pivotal plot point in the finale. The clearest explanation is probably the episode with King Bumi where he explains that sometimes doing nothing and waiting for conditions to change is the best strategy. Repeatedly in the story the characters don't work out the solution through careful thinking (which tend to be more western) but meditate or explore a subject until an organic option presents itself. The episode with the guru is also full of explanation regarding this kind of organic response to the flow of the situation. Many times a character works through things logically but when a situation presents itself they realize they were mistaken (Katara wanting to kill the Fire Nation soldier who killed her mother is a major example). The disagreement over the storytelling is largely to do with cultural values and specifically a failure to absorb the lessons the rest of the show very consistently provides.
The lion turtle presents itself to Aang in response to his spiritual connection to the world (above simply being Avatar) and his grappling with the subject and looking for help. It's much the same as how all the single-episode supporting characters come back to help with the assault on the Fire Nation. The entire exchange Aang has with his past lives and his whole deliberation process over the issue happens while he rides the back of the lion turtle. Aang working through the dilemma and refusing to compromise either the Avatar duties or his duties as the Last Airbender is a test of character given by the lion turtle. The energybending power is bestowed only after Aang has demonstrated his worthiness of it. It's not the first time he's encountered creatures of great power and reaped profound rewards because of his connection to the spirit/natural world. That's a very consistent aspect of his character.
No.2815
>>2804>at some point, I think, it is mentioned that only benders have political representation in Republic City, but this is a throwaway lineIt's in the very first episode. When Korra gets to Republic City one of the first things she encounters is a big rally of non-benders protesting this, and she starts to justify it because of… "bender fragility" or something.
>Actual politics are just a general malaise of things being not perfect and perhaps there are some reforms needed, but it is just this vague background.This is the case (pretty overtly) because Korra at a personal level doesn't give a shit. The third season makes this completely explicit when Zaheer starts to explain his views and she tells him she's not interested. LoK brings up the actual politics multiple times but then glosses over it as soon as Korra arrives because
she doesn't care. We see Kuvira exercising realpolitik to get territory. We see Varrick manipulating a situation to make profits. We see Unalaq engage in deceptions that cause a civil war. But all of this remains in the background because Korra personally doesn't care about the underlying problems or situation (polar opposite of Aang). She just goes and beats the bad guy. How much of this is an internal thing between writers who wanted to explore the topics vs writers who didn't and how much is just deliberate characterization of Korra who knows.
No.2816
>>2814>It comes off as cheap because the audience is used to Trolley Problem logic where you simply have to pick between two choicesNo, it doesn't. It comes off as cheap precisely because it doesn't break the Trolley problem as the series has done multiple times before, and instead provides a 3rd track through Deus Ex Machina, one of the shittiest tropes out there.
>Aang's method of arriving at the solution is also the natural conclusion of the show's philosophyExcept there is no method. I never disagreed that third-positionism isn't done by the series, but in THIS instance it isn't earned and comes off as a cop-out for Aang having to make hard choices, rather than an intelligent method of resolving the conflict. FFS Talk no Jutsu was a more legitimate method, because at least then we get an argumentative dialogue between two characters who figure it out on their own… or if they fail to figure it out/stay the course, suffer the consequences of doing so. ATLA did this before, such as with Zuko in the Crystal Caves or against his father during the Solar Eclipse. But with the Lion Turtle we get none of this:
Aang in subconscious state ends up on its back while exhausted trying to find a solution to his dilemma. He then calls upon multiple avatar spirits who each have lived their own long lives and their own nation's perspectives, yet they all say that as Avatar he must take upon himself the burden of responsibility, up to and including killing those who would disrupt the balance of the world. Aang's final argument is with another airbender, in an attempt at confirmation bias, and still gets the same answer. He refuses to be a killer however and then discovers the Turtle, who magicks the knowledge of "energy-bending" out his ass and into Aang, no prior research, hints or anything that would make this NOT be a total asspull. This shit is the same crap Kishimoto pulled in the 4th Shinobi War Arc.
All the examples you provide are legitimate… they also make this sudden asspull a real downer, because its so stupid.
>The lion turtle presents itself to Aang in response to his spiritual connection to the worldThat's fine, that IS hinted at in the series prior, and is similar to the Badgermoles and the Dragons who acted in similar manner for the Gaang in other parts of the story.
>It's much the same as how all the single-episode supporting characters come back to help with the assault on the Fire NationDon't see the connection here.
>a test of character given by the lion turtleThat would be fine if it weren't for the fact that this is never implied at all. The conversation with his past lives don't even mention the Lion Turtle, nor is it implied that the Lion Turtle somehow influenced the prior Avatars. Even a simple dialogue would solve this:
- Avatar X: "In times when the Wisdom of generations of Avatars fails you, search out the wisdom of those who came before - the lion turtles
- Aang: "But where am I supposed to find a lion turtle, when the Comet is going to be here tomorrow!?"
- Avatar(s): "Look closely, and see that which is hidden under your nose"
*cue conversation with Lion Turtle who asks Aang what he is searching for and why and THEN bestows upon him energybending knowledge*
In 5 minutes I've already fixed the entire problem. But without the parts I just wrote in this whole "testing Aang" and "third option" talk just sounds hollow and contrived. Hell the writers actually had the PERFECT set up to this in a deleted episode:
http://archive.vn/DF2YO I'm fine with the moral being not to kill Ozai, but if that's the case then Aang should have come up with a way to do this thanks to his wits & established hints, not a magic solution literally handed to him by a giant magic turtle. It's like a shitty Gamera movie and frankly, a very lackluster resolution to an internal conflict ~60 episodes in the making.
1/2
No.2817
>>2814>>2816>consistent aspect of his characterTrue, but again, some things need a little more fleshing out for this to work. ATLA repeatedly points out that Spirits & other parts of the world of Avatar are not just magic, they are puzzles, with certain limits & rules. Aang didn't stop Hei Bai by just saying
"stop, I'm the Avatar, bridge to the Spirit World" He had an entire adventure exploring and understanding the spirit while also finding a clue as to how to contact Roku.
Moreover I would say that while this third position IS consistent and admirable, simultaneously it has its own issue of being very pacifistic. As the Roman proverb goes,
Si vis pacem, para bellum - "If you want peace, prepare for war". In some ways Aangs need to either kill or incapacitate the Fire Lord was a final test of his resolve to help the world. If he did not he would damn it to more war & suffering, thus it would be his burden to bear - the taking of a life in return for peace, because most things worth fighting for do not come without a price and consequences. The third position was an interesting aspect in terms of "forging your own path" but simultaneously it also
- Roku: Be decisive, because when I was not, my best friend killed your entire ethnicity and embroiled the world in 100 years of war
- Kyoshi: Only justice will bring peace, because some people only respond to hard action
- Koruk: You must actively shape your own destiny and the destiny of the world
- Yang Chen: The Avatar can never be fully detached because he has his duty to the world
4 Avatars of different times, ethnicities & experiences essentially implied that he must make the hard decision and thus mature fully as the Avatar. Hell part of the episodes prior was a Baby picture of Ozai where Zuko firmly states that the happy little child wold grow up to be a monster, and his innocence then cannot influence the decisions in the now. From the start of the series it has been implied that to stop the Fire Lord Aang would have to fight him and likely kill him considering his unashamed fascism. This isn't even a Darth Vader situation, where Aang is somehow related to him, and can find a small spark of good in the villain's black heart, because really the true villain was the Emperor/Fire Lord.
Additionally the story provided a way out for Aang with the Solar Eclipse taking away Fire-Bending, so they form a grand invasion plan around this. They fail. They don't take out Ozai before the comet, forcing them to face him during the comet. This means that Aang has to do the one thing he dreaded from the beginning. Killing someone.
This isn't petty,
"Yeah be the cool guy and kill the villain!" action hero crap. It's a serious, realistic choice to be made; you can't always win completely. If Aang had killed Ozai, it would have shown that the Avatar’s debt is really a heavy burden: Sometimes you have to sacrifice your principles for the salvation of the world and loved ones. By rejecting this Aang is special, sure… but it smacks of american
"Everything is fine in the end" story telling, which undercuts the grittiness of much of the prior story. Like, imagine when after Toph implied that Jet was dying, he appears a few episodes later in perfect health; fuck that. Hell in the comics they even undercut this with the New Ozai Society, who cause mayhem in the name of the still living and influential Ozai. Its a similar problem as to why the Ural Soviet decided to execute the Czar and his family.
>Inb4 defeat =/= killIf you pay very close attention to their choice of words throughout the show, you notice that they try to refrain from using “kill” or “murder”. Those words are too vulgar for a kids show (atleast back then). They always substitute it with something else. Ex.
1) “We don’t even know if Bumi’s still around” Sokka to Aang talking about Bumi instead of “we don’t even know if Bumi is alive”
2) “I’m about to celebrate becoming an only child!”Azula to Zuko instead of “I’m about to kill you”
3) Jet’s whole death scene which was made to be ambiguous although we knew he would die thanks to Toph
4) “And you won't have to worry about your destiny anymore, because I'll make sure your destiny ends right then and there, permanently.” Katara to Zuko instead of
“And you won't have to worry about your destiny anymore, because I'll murder you right then and there”5) “I did a bad thing. I know I did, and you deserve revenge. So why don't you take my mother? That would be fair.” Yon Rha to Katara instead of “So why don’t you kill my mother also”
6) “You will know the pain of losing a firstborn son." Azulon to Ozai instead of “you must kill your firstborn too”
7) “I'm sparing you, Sozin. I'm letting you go in the name of our past friendship. But I warn you. Even a single step out of line will result in your permanent end.” Roku to Sozin Instead of “even a single step out of line and I’ll murder you”.
So as you can see, they won’t outright say, “you have to kill/murder him”.
No.2820
>>2816>That would be fine if it weren't for the fact that this is never implied at all. The conversation with his past lives don't even mention the Lion Turtle, nor is it implied that the Lion Turtle somehow influenced the prior Avatars. Even a simple dialogue would solve this:- Avatar X: "In times when the Wisdom of generations of Avatars fails you, search out the wisdom of those who came before - the lion turtles
This isn't how tests of character work. You're only supposed to realize that's what it was after the fact. And part of the point of the lion turtle is that it's a special case for Aang to meet one. The nature of the lion turtle or energy bending could have used more build up, but its role in the plot made sense thematically.
>>2817>Moreover I would say that while this third position IS consistent and admirable, simultaneously it has its own issue of being very pacifistic. As the Roman proverb goes, Si vis pacem, para bellum - "If you want peace, prepare for war".This just illustrates my point about eastern vs western philosophy. Rather than peace through deterrence or domination, Aang achieves peace through disarmament.
>4 Avatars of different times, ethnicities & experiences essentially implied that he must make the hard decision and thus mature fully as the Avatar.The point is they were wrong. The point is that experience and established wisdom aren't always right (a consistent theme of the show). The past lives are shown to be wise but flawed, such as when Roku insists Aang learn fire bending prematurely and it goes wrong.
The reason it's a dilemma in the first place is that if Aang betrays his Air Nomad culture, the Fire Nation will have won. He might be able to bend air (like Zaheer) but wouldn't be an Air Nomad any more. He would have allow the genocide to be complete. YangChen didn't have that problem because the Air Nomads were fine back then. Kyoshi barely seemed to have a connection to the Earth Kingdom, being focused on her specific tribe. Aang's predicament was historically new and warranted a novel solution that the wisdom of past lives couldn't help with.
>but it smacks of american "Everything is fine in the end" story telling, which undercuts the grittiness of much of the prior story.Not really considering how much effort Aang went through trying to find another way (both immediately prior to the battle and through his character development over the series). He did everything he could to earn the ending he was after, seeking help where he thought he would find it. Just like the Gaang's long-term adventures across the world earned them the support of its people in the attack on the Fire Nation, Aang's devotion to putting things right with the natural and spirit worlds culminated in the lion turtle coming to help in the end.
>Hell in the comics they even undercut this with the New Ozai Society, who cause mayhem in the name of the still living and influential Ozai. Its a similar problem as to why the Ural Soviet decided to execute the Czar and his family.The comics are another story, and the question of legitimate rule isn't even brought up in the show. If anything divine right is legitimized since much attention is given to redeeming the heir (Zuko) rather than abolishing the monarchy. At the end of the series, the Fire Nation has a "rightful monarch" who is a Good Guy. This angle of criticism is absent (and would be anachronistic tbf).
>If you pay very close attention to their choice of words throughout the show, you notice that they try to refrain from using “kill” or “murder”.Murder maybe, but they refer to death and killing at times.
The examples you give are all fairly realistic dialogue. People don't usually explicitly talk about killing each other that way. And Sokka's line about Bumi in context was clearly Sokka trying to spare Aang's feelings. In any case, I don't have the show on hand for quotes, but they made it quite clear what they were talking about with Ozai, which is killing him.
No.2821
>>2820Accidentally deleted part of the post
>>2816>Except there is no method. I never disagreed that third-positionism isn't done by the series, but in THIS instance it isn't earned and comes off as a cop-out for Aang having to make hard choices, rather than an intelligent method of resolving the conflict.His method is to keep looking until he encounters his answer, rather than to find one by thinking through the scenario. It's a more passive process of observation. With the Ozai dilemma he's more active because he's searching for a solution, but it's the same kind of thing he usually does where he gathers information instead of relying on his (current) knowledge. He usually acquires his edge not through wits alone, but by keeping an ear to the ground and being perceptive (and receptive) of the world around him. Aang had spent the whole series going out of his way to help those in need, and when an intelligent being who knows of him returns the favor to help him it's criticized for being deus ex machina (which it is almost literally), even though the show goes the distance to justify it with these kinds of magical beings and Aang's altruism. With all he had done (and would still do) for beings like the lion turtle, he earned the deus ex machina of a strange creature coming to help him. The only thing that was really missing and that I would criticize is the energy bending part of it. That could have used more build up with discussion on the nature of bending at some point earlier.
>I'm fine with the moral being not to kill Ozai, but if that's the case then Aang should have come up with a way to do this thanks to his wits & established hints,That's part of what I mean about the western/eastern values. Aang doesn't win by thinking up a solution. He wins because his actions earned him the help he needed later. Rather than being and individualist rational science man, Aang derives his strength from cultivating his connections to the world around him.
No.2822
>>2820>This isn't how tests of character work. For the character themselves perhaps, but not for the audience. It's not supposed to be an out-of-nowhere surprise for the audience, but hinted at least somewhat.
>The nature of the lion turtle or energy bending could have used more build up, but its role in the plot made sense thematically.I didn't deny this, but the lack of build up makes it feel shallow and unclear.
>eastern vs western philosophyKek, read The Art of War or Confucius… or the history of Tibet and their 'monks' who Aang is modeled from. the PRC don't give them an inch for good reason considering their ideologies and actions. The closest thing to the peace promoted by ATLA relevant to actual Eastern philosophy would be Indian Buddhism and Taoism… however Indian Buddhism can be violent as well historically, and Hinduism, (which is in part an origin of Buddhism) is VERY violent and destructive in some of its philosophies. That's not even talking about the Mongols and Cossacks and their very logical and harsh way of life and thought.
This whole "le peaceful Eastern thought process" myth has been touted for decades and needs to stop. Million-man battles were occurring in the East long before Europe ever reached such levels of death and destruction.
>Rather than peace through deterrence or domination, Aang achieves peace through disarmament1) That's good and well, but as decades of attempts at Nuclear Disarmament have shown that's not so simple
2) Pacifism like this is well-meaning but also very ignorant. Taking away arms does not take away people's ability to cause destruction and chaos or act out humanities worst vices. Ironically the shitshow that is LoK demonstrates this quite well with chi-blockers and that rich fuck who created their army. It rings hollow even within ATLA itself seeing how none of the different nations could be placed as 100% good or evil.
>The point is they were wrongBut they aren't.
>The point is that experience and established wisdom aren't always right While true for the show, the show has also pointed out that experience and established wisdom is also something to be listened to to prevent mistakes (Uncle Iroh and Zuko's dynamic). You keep trying to deal in absolutes, when the whole problem is that the show emphasized the LACK of absolutes in many places.
>when Roku insists Aang learn fire bending prematurely and it goes wrongRoku did not insist on firebending prematurely, he merely pressured the old General to do so because of the limited opportunities for Aang to do so, especially with the war and the 3 month time-span. Aang decided on this path FIRST. Moreover it doesn't go completely wrong, since Aang learns, through painful consequences why and how fire needs firm control.
>The reason it's a dilemma in the first place is that if Aang betrays his Air Nomad culture, the Fire Nation will have wonNo that's not it at all. Air Nomad 'Culture' is the surface level of the dilemma, the real dilemma is his own personal moral compass. The whole 'culture of peace' thing is demeaning to the 3 other cultures; are they and their ideologies immoral? Obviously not.
And this "We win when you kill us" theme is a big lot of bullshit built off of a misinterpretation of old proverbs such as "he who kills a dragon will become one himself", which is an allegory for taking and abusing power rather than actually an issue with killing an evil bastard. Without the Deus Ex Machina, Aang would essentially do the same thing Rose Tiko did in Last Jedi. Moreover the point is that as the Avatar, Aang cannot choose to live according to just 1 culture because he is the embodiment of all 4 and thus must embrace parts of each and owes his duty to them.
> Aang's devotion to putting things right with the natural and spirit worlds culminated in the lion turtle coming to help in the end.Again this needs some serious backing. The entire complex journey of the Gaang is WHY this Lion Turtle moment stands out as so flat.
>question of legitimate ruleThat's not what was being meant. The point was that with people like Ozai, leaving him alive, but disarmed is like letting a Nazi war-criminal walk, they're still a socio-political threat, if not a physical one.
>At the end of the series, the Fire Nation has a "rightful monarch" who is a Good Guy.Yeah but thats more part of the whole "good kings" fantasy of ATLA, than anything intentional
>but they refer to death and killing at timesVery rarely and not killing (at least until way later).
>>2821>he earned the deus ex machina of a strange creature coming to help himAgain, never denied this
>energy bendingThis is my entire point FFS. Energy bending combined with too subtle 'build-up' makes the moment fall flat.
> Aang doesn't win by thinking up a solution. He wins because his actions earned him the help he needed later.Nibba, a massive portion of Greek and Norse myths use this same formula. Where do you think Deus Ex Machina (God from the machine) as a phrase comes from?
>Rather than being and individualist rational science manNot what I said or meant with using his wits and hints.
>cultivating his connections to the worldThe two do not exclude each other.
No.2831
>>2815>The politics and history and social relations are never explored because the MC is an apolitical retardImagine if Naruto never had shit like our boy going ahead and fighting against the social relations of his society
No.2884
>>2881They have Nazi colors
No.2888
>The Legend of Korra is Garbage by Lily Orchard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhS4a11jZOg I disagree with most of her videos but this is the one video that I agree with whole-heartedly as it lacks any talk about id-pol asides the stuff that the show tries to shove in a la "le Gay POC" (who does what's good for her rich friends at the cost of everyone else).
She points out that the show keeps trying to be anti-extremist, but the results of those extremists seem to display that these extremists were right and actually achieved results. Lily also pointed out how the ideology of the show was "democracy is good because we say so" which is exactly correct. Lily also points out how muddled and hypocritical these pro-democracy characters are, such as Suyin who was ranting and raving about The Earth Queen, and how royalty are bad (in spite of how this essentially should put her at odds with Zuko), yet later is all for the Earth king prince to take the throne again instead of democracy, in spite of his own reluctance to do so, her reason being essentially that 'the people don't know what they want'. Later with Kuvira, she tries to play her as the villain when Kuvira was essentially putting the greater good ahead of everything to re-unite and stabilize the shattered territories Earth Kingdom. The show ironically fails to prove the ideology they want to promote and instead make most of the villains stupid yet still prove them right most of the time, with only Kuvira NOT being stupid/lying and only Zaheer being proven wrong… Only for Zaheer to become some enlightened heretic monk, making no sense whatsoever.
I THINK Suyin was supposed to be the libertine in contrast to her stricter, based (half)-sister Lin. But even then I'm not sure if that was intentional past the cliched anime Tsundere and Deredere pairings you see in other shows like To-Love Ru (MFW I just realized Korra has parts of it as bad as To-Love Ru).
- Amon (prior to the whole 'he was really a self-hating waterbender all along!' bullshit): A total equality where no-one can bend anything. It's a strawman of communism, but even then the change is literally just downgrading one person to be equal to others, not even killing them or otherwise harming them. His relation to Asami's father is also probably a reference to how "communists" are always getting paid for by rich people so they're not REALLY the people's will. As anyone who knows what socialism and communism is, this is neither but hey, who cares? Not the 3.8 MILLION views per episode of the 1st Season!
- Unalaq: Wanted to and did become chief of the Northern Water Tribe over his older, birth-right (but unspiritual) brother and re-connect the people to the spirits… until the plot decided to do spirit magika instead. Lily covers this better than I can put it into words, but the point was about spirituality. Unalaq was (prior to the idiocy of the Satan and Jesus motive with Ravva), seeking to re-unite the water-tribe people with their spirituality, as this important aspect of life was being lost on the new generations, (something backed by how important spirits were in ATLA such as with Hei Bai). After the whole Ravva retardation, at the end of the Season Korra does exactly what Unalaq's original motivations were, release the spirits to allow the world to be closer with them. No real on scene casualties (even though malevolent spirits exist, and spirits in general have held humans in poor regard).
- Zaheer: MUH LIBERTY (Basically removing all restraints between spirit world and the normal world by removing all government and killing the Avatar. An AnCap's wet dream. The Red Lotus has the most victims in its plan but it is also the only extremism that DOESN'T result in a positive promotion of their ideals (mostly because the former part about the Spirit world was done back in Season 2). The result of his rampage was complete lack of authority… and the chaos that followed - and which he promoted - led to conditions of banditism, terrorism and fear in the population, which in turn REQUIRED authority to end it.
- Kuvira: she's an obvious allusion to a dictatorship, except her actions (up until the ass-pulled giant mecha shit) and her methods are all justified measures in the midst of the chaos caused by Zaheer and his moronic mind-set as well as Korra and Co.'s spineless attitude in dealing with the Red Lotus. She is in many ways similar to Stalin, TBH. Harsh measures being the only thing capable of stopping the collapsing remains of the Earth Kingdom. While never actually showing her doing anything evil, they keep talking about things like labour camps and suppression… which ignores the fact that a Revolution must be defended from reactionary elements, including with labour camps, which give criminals a chance to contribute something to society while being reformed and punished for their crimes. Korra essentially disappeared for 3 years, and left the Earth Kingdom in a state of Anarchy, while Kuvira and others picked up the pieces she left behind so one can't really blame her for not wanting Korra to come bck and start doing whatever the fuck she wants after that.
>Based post materially analyzing Kuvira and comparing her actions in universe to rel life equivalents that were direct inspirations: https://old.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/comments/8ta6bz/all_spoilers_why_kuvira_was_literally_never_wrong/>Actual Gulag rundown: https://stalinistkatyusha.wixsite.com/stalinist-katyusha/single-post/2018/10/04/The-Truth-about-the-Soviet-Gulag---Surprisingly-Revealed-by-the-CIAIn most of these cases, usually the villain's ideas are nebulous concepts of freedom and equality and other shit that are shared by most decent human beings, the difference is that prior to their extremist actions nothing was changing, people were just nodding their heads and bleating about how things shouldn't be so oppressive, and doing nothing about it until someone (the villains) decide to stop taking shit and take action. See Pic 3.
The show attempts to cripple this idea by making almost all the villains liars, but this fails because even if they were 'pretending' to believe their ideologies, their main 'pretend' idea is believed by others and is eventually carried out as the main cast essentially conceded to their ideas being right after-all. The show proves extremism as effective, while ironically preaching against it. When Brike finally realized the hole they wrote themselves into they decided to revive Toph in season 4 and preach to Korra about how the villains
took good ideas too far (stupid philosophizing that is out of character for Toph in the first place).
With Ozai you had a consistent (if simple) villain who was an obvious and unapologetic imperialist/nazi and with anyone below him you get people who are complex enemies without having utter sob-stories for backgrounds. Zuko was a victim but at the same time this didn't stop meaning he was an asshole himself.
And get this, we're just talking about a BASIC over-view of the series as a whole. If a basic over-view is completely broke, than can you imagine what a more detailed review would be like!?
As a side note the true villain of the over-all series is Asami, see pic 2.
No.2889
>>2888>>Based post materially analyzing Kuvira and comparing her actions in universe to rel life equivalents that were direct inspirations: https://old.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/comments/8ta6bz/all_spoilers_why_kuvira_was_literally_never_wrong/Reading this and the responses he does in the comments I'm convinced this is really clever comrade who used a JFK quote and repeated comparisons to post-fascist retribution, to worm his way into reader's minds with based material analysis. He even outright states in response to one criticism;
>Should she not centralise the Earth Kingdom to deal with famines? Should she not act brutally towards bandits?Reminds me of a certain Georgian idol of ours and the ML arguments defending him.
Its unfortunate that the account was clearly banned and deleted by plebbit mods.
No.2891
>>2888>Asami picIt is the bourgeoisie. It was always the bourgeoisie.
No.2893
>>2889God, all the dirty libs in that sub made me sick, what a bunch of faggots
No.2911
>>2888>that reddit threadNah one of the first redditor btfos the bouj nationalist idea that muh great 18 villages over the river bulshit , the earth kingdom was at peace with the fire nation for over 50 years by the time of the ethnic cleansing ,and lets not talk about the fact that the ussr never send any ethnicities to gulags desoite liberal propaganda
No.2912
>>2911>Manchukuo should’ve existed forever No
No.2914
>>2912manchukuo was a pupet state that fought against free china fuck it, i never even mention the manchus you schizo
No.2920
>>2914Republic City is Manchukuo dipshit
No.2922
>>2756>Linking E;ROh great yet another "Edgy" wannabe "Reviewer" who took his unfunny and retarded jokes from /pol/ Yeah truly a quality comedian.
As if I needed a review from a wannabe /pol/tard like "Semicolon" to tell me that Korra was shit.
No.2925
>>2920nahh it isnt , msnchukuo had an actual local population diferent from the mainland
No.2928
>>2925Exactly like Yu Dao, the Fire Nation colony renamed Republic City?
If you support the existence of all the genocidal settler colonial states currently polluting our Earth with their presence why do you even call yourself a communist?
No.2937
>>2922>Muh E;R!!!!!<actually buying into "le nazi E;R" meme from twitter.
<Not actually objectively watching a review of a cartoon from a story-telling standpoint and ignoring obvious JOKES
Fuck off back to tumblr.
No.2941
what are you thoughts on the upcoming sequels
i mean 4 avatars doesn't sound enough we need a trio triology
No.2942
>>2937Why the fuck are you so triggered that nobody wants to watch your shitty e-celeb?
No.2945
>>2942>nobodyhis views (and comments both leftish and not) state otherwise.
>e-celeb<Everyone on youtube who I don't like is an e-celeb, waaaah!
The better question is:
Why are you so triggered because someone posted a minor youtuber with an interesting review?
People here read and consider the arguments of Stephen Kotkin, despite his anti-communism and occasional bullshit.
No.2947
>>2945But you’re the one responding to everyone that says they don’t feel like watching a /pol/fag?
No.2949
>>2928Mancuhus were a local tribe not colonists you retard and the Republic city allowed anyone to live there and didn't claim to be the only true succesor state to the earth kingdom
No.2950
>>2947>everyone who responds to whining is 1 personI just adjusted the copy paste from the post in
>>2810 to fit your whiny post. Stop bitching about "muh /pol/" when the point of those videos and their analysis has little to nothing to do with /pol/ talking points, outside of Jew jokes, which as an ethnic Jew myself, I still laugh at. Sure he makes a discount "lazy commies" joke but that's the point, it's a caricaturist joke thrown out in light of the lazy radlib succ-dems of the Burger society. Regardless one can learn lessons from enemies, its why I read Mein Kampf; for as much as I detest the nazis, one needs to understand their motivations to deconstruct them past "nazi bad!". Moreover in topics of non-ideological discussion political differences are irrelevant.
No.2951
>>2950E'R has made the same points with 90% of all other nerds that review LoK why are such a big fun of him
No.2957
>>2889Lily Orchard is openly a communist.
No.2963
>>2962watch glass of water
No.2973
>>2951> 90% of all other nerds that review LoKNo not really. He points out the blatant idpol well and also points out an important thing about Raava and Vatu being bad satan/christ inserts, something that no other youtuber I have seen has pointed out. Lily Orchard, and his reviews as well as Llama's reiew of Season 2 are the best I've seen. I just ignore his occasional /pol/ jokes and focus on the important parts that pertain to his points. I can agree and disagree but over-all I find his reviews an enlightening (if vitriolic) point of view. Most other reviewers were too scared to offend the LoK fandom until years after the show ended which makes many of their reviews too lenient IMO.
>>2957>>2957>>2962>>2963I've heard her claim such and point out some relatively communist talking points but her focus on idpol and other positions would have me categorize her as a radical liberal in terms of ideology.
TL;DR:
Both Lily and E;R make videos I have disagreed with but they do rather dent story analyses, and you don't have to agree with their humor or political background to acknowledge their objective points on series and films they review.
No.2987
>>2962I'll have to watch E;R's reviews, because the one thing that really bothered me about Lily's review was her instance that Raava and Vatu were God and Satan allegories, despite the former two being on equal levels of power, while Satan is lesser than God.
No.2988
>>2987But they objectivly were god and satan allegories , i doubt the creators are theologians
No.2990
>>2988They supposed to be a Ying and Yang allegory, representing a balance of chaos and order, but they ended up being more like a Zoroastrian allegory, with a a powerful good fighting an equally powerful evil.
No.2992
>>2987E;R asserts the same as Lily in this regard but he points out how it counters the whole point. And while Satan is weaker on an individual basis, his influence and being one of several Demon Kings, makes up for it by allowing greater influence on people
No.3719
There is almost nothing in LOK that I like, but there still things that I did enjoy.
- Season 2's initial Civil War plot was an excellent, murky exploration of the grayness of such a conflict with things like corporate sabotage, glorification of war, suppression of dissent/provocation of dissent, corporate false-flags and the use of ethno-nationalism as a method to keep others (like the Fire Nation, the Republic or the Earth Kingdom) out. The ideological issue about loss-of-spirituality was also very interesting considering how important it was to the Avatar. This was all abandoned sadly for God v Satan allegories and beam-battles as well as the literal destruction of the previous Avatars.
- Kuvira: She was the foil to Korra and her gang of liberal suck-ups. She was decisive and logical, taking action and level of measure as the situation called for. She was basically the only character whom I related with wholly by that point in the story. More on that in
>>2888The only others who I liked before were Tenzin and Lin Bei Fong, both of whom - by that point - were forced to dog Korra's heels like obedient dogs, brow-beaten into submission by the writers forcing the plot to make Korra be right, and them to submit to her for that. They were cool while they lasted though, and managed to keep SOME sense of dignity throughout the show, in spite of the plot making them look like fools before Suyin and Korra (and gang).
A good article on how shafted Lin was:
https://www.thefandomentals.com/lin-beifong-unsung-hero-korra/- I liked Amon: As a villain. Communist strawman aside, his hypocritical but well written character made him an enemy to be feared, but the further it went (after he removed his mask at Korra's demand) the less logical it became. His story was interesting, but when it suddenly turned out to be a lie… it was stupid. Tarlok was a needless plot-device, but his round-ups of non-benders still somewhat functioned if it wasn't for the bullshit blood-bender rubbish, (because well-meaning bureaucrats taking a strict approach are all secretly evil). Moreover the fear of benders by non-benders makes sense and was pretty legitimate, but for some-reason the writers played it for laughs…
- Toph: What is there to say? She is the awesome Blind Bandit and greatest earth-bender. Sadly, like with Tenzin and her daughter Lin, she was forced to be far more accepting of Korra's bullshit than the previous show would allowed, and was nerfed into an old granny (which is a poor showing when looking at King Bumi). If it weren't for Korra-Sue and the lib-succ agenda, she also wouldn't preach philosophical crap about 'going too far', which is the opposing idea of her character - a person who goes as far as she wants and as far as required, and who would not be hung up on formless ideals and 'taking them too far' (let alone the fact that the definition of too far is unaddressed).
So that's just about it… half a season, 2 villains before they were flanderized at the end of their respective arcs, and 3 wise, stoic, gruff characters who were denigrated to serve Korra by the plot and writers.
No.3722
Korra was TRASHHHHHHH
By the time Season 4 rolled around I was hoping that Kuvira would just straight up kill every member of the main cast. I hated them ALL. In fact I was disappointed that Zaheer didn't permanently put Korra into a coma.
Korra is a 10 year old's idea of what politics is:
Communism is strawmanned as "lul everyone equal!!!111"
Traditional spiritualityis strawmanned as…actually, it's not even a strawman since it's so ridiculous, basically the argument against Unalak is that if you become too spiritual you'll get possessed by a demon who wants to destroy the world
Anarchy was strawmanned as "LUL NO GOVERNING STRUCTURES AT ALL JUST LET EVERYONE DO WHAT THEY WANT"
And Fascism wasn't even fascist. Kuvira was far closer to Stalinism - sorry, "Marxist-Leninist" ideology than fascism because the thing about fascism is that THEY ACTUALLY KILL YOU. Re-education camps only makes sense within a marxist context where the individual worker is just confused and needs help seeing the correct path. The idea that a fascist regime would try to convince opponents of their ideological merits instead of throwing them to the gas chamber is completely ridiculous.
No.3736
>>2801> he wasnt influenced by communists in particularI mean from the POV yes. However in the context of what came after the 1920s ("communism is total uravnovilovka" strawman), it isn't an unsurprising idea, especially since Amon is put-down as an extremist.
>>2884Red White and Black are colors used by many propagandist posters because they are eye-catching. The Nazis knew this and used this, but that does not make the scheme 'Nazi Colors' any more than it makes Germans = fascists.
>>2941>upcoming sequelsWhat now? I've heard Netflix is doing something but a trilogy?
No.3742
Kuvira is hot and zaheer did nothing wrong.
Also korra is hot with her later arc hair. Buff tomboys ♥️.
No.3745
>>3742Azula was my first animated crush
No.3749
>>3742>zaheer did nothing wrongZaheer did everything wrong… Fucker was just trying to be chaos incarnate… that's what you call a true villain.
>KuviraShe was hot and smart
>Korra<late arc
<hot
Tomboys are great but her late-arc design was mediocre.
>>3745Good luck with the Yandere psycho kohai!
No.3801
>>3749>Tomboys are great but her late-arc design was mediocre. Better than her shit early design.
No.4012
Just saw the Lily Orchand recomend in yt. An hour an thirthy! And like/dislike ratio closed? Did she angered the fandom? And what hot takes did she said?
No.4013
Plus when I was a kid, beggining to understand politics. I couldn't but root for Kuvira and hope the little prince get shot. Fuck the Korra Squad.
No.4019
>>4012> Did she angered the fandomYep, pissed them right the fuck off because she pointed out the following "hot takes"
A) The majority of villains are cheap hypocrites representing certain ideological strawmen
B) They abandon a valid and interesting Civil War plot in Season 2 for God v Satan allegories (in a world specifically created and inspired by Far-East Asian cultures)
C) Korra is a liberal gay PoC shove in
See
>>2888 for a thorough analysis and expansion on her video and their points.
>>4013>root for KuviraYou've got the right idea comr8!
No.4021
>>4019Cool. I've never realized that her eyes were green and it matched.
No.4350
The original series is going to be on Netflix this month, and the creators are doing a live action version for Netflix. How bad is it going to be?
>>4021Eye color is tied to nations.
Green = earth.
Red = fire.
Grey = Air.
Blue = water.
Cultural garb matches the eyes most of the time, since it's part of the motif. Air Nomads are the obvious exception, wearing red/orange.
No.4376
>>4350>on Netflix this month<not just streaming it for free from any online service
Kek
>doing a live action version for Netflix<how bad
Probably full of shite idpol and hamfisted romance dramas. At least the CGI effects look decent for a Netflix production (pic related).
>>4350>Eye color is tied to nationsYou're generally correct, though there are exceptions in the series. Regardless, its a nice touch of the Original series that points out that different people can be and are different and that is not a bad thing.
No.4384
>>4376I have the series in video files. I was just mentioning it's going on Netflix because they have the rights to stream it and to make an adaptation, so maybe Nickelodeon will sell the whole show or something, IDK.
>Probably full of shite idpolThey announced that the characters will be played by actors of the "culturally appropriate" actors. To a degree it makes sense, but you're already looking at a small group of actors if you need (good) child actors who can convincingly do martial arts. It's fantasy anyway - you could make the cast any ethnicity. The characters don't belong to "real" ethnicities.
Shyamalan got a lot of shit for casting some characters as white but people ignore the fact that he made the fire nation Indians just so he could cameo in the film without sticking out.
No.4402
>>2787>>2799>>2810He actually genuinely could be a Nazi (He mentioned at point that explicitly likes to put Right-winging talking points / memes / Dogwhistles into his videos but claimed that it was just for da memes) but that's asides from the point
The points that him and "Left-wing" or "woke" content creators make about the show (And other things like SU for instance) are basically the same just with different wording
No.4421
>>4419No, fuck off.
>>4402>basically the same just with different wordingfinally somebody gets it.
No.4945
>>2957Lol no, he's a token radlib and literally thinks that fucking Canada is socialist.
No.4984
Re-watching Avatar rn since it’s on Netflix
Forgot how fucking good, based, and red-pilled this show was tbh
I’m surprised how, despite the silly gags, younger cast, and less pandering to teenagers this show still feels way more mature and intelligent than Legend of Korra
No.4985
>>4984Honestly, just for one instance, this show treated war and environmental degradation WAY more intelligently than Korra does; and the world building is so much deeper, an industrializing world that’s roughly our 1800s with its own unique feeling
No.4992
Holy shit, anyone else notice that the names Fire Nation and Earth Kingdom actually fit our understanding of the two forms of state? The Fire Nation is indeed a centralized nation-state where all regions are governed by a central authority, whereas the Earth Kingdom is a decentralized feudal society where governing is by local governors, kings, and lords that pledge loyalty to the reigning monarch
No.4995
>>4992all of the societies are sorta analogues for epochs of human civilization, air nomads are hunter-gatherers with herd pasturing and light agriculture, water tribe is settled small agricultural societies in the northern water tribe and large semi-feudal kingdoms in the southern water tribe, the earth kingdom is pure feudalism developing a bouj class, where the fire nation is basically at the start of mass-industrialization.
No.5023
>>4992Yes, and the water tribes are structured as chiefdoms while the air nomads don't appear to have much of a political structure and (going by Aang) spend a lot of their time traveling the world.
>>4995>air nomads are hunter-gatherers with herd pasturing and light agriculture,They do herd sky bison and appear to grow fruit in orchards, but they are vegetarian so definitely not hunters.
>water tribe is settled small agricultural societies in the northern water tribe and large semi-feudal kingdoms in the southern water tribe,Got them mixed up, but they are based on the Inuit and Yupik cultures and are exclusively fishers/hunters, which is the only viable food source in an arctic environment. And funnily enough this makes them a direct foil to Air Nomads.
>the earth kingdom is pure feudalism developing a bouj class, where the fire nation is basically at the start of mass-industrialization.This is accurate though, and interestingly the show makes a point of displaying the huge farms at Ba Sing Se so the creators were clearly thinking about how these societies reproduce themselves, unlike in Lord of the Rings for example.
No.5025
>>5024LotR was always very idealist whereas Avatar is much more materialist and the magic is treated like a law of physics.
>>49492 1/2 minutes into the first vid and I'm actually mad at how they treated the Equalists as an adaptation of communism. Imagine if they tried to adapt the logic of actual communism to bending and the plot was about trying to use energy bending to give bending to everyone. There is so much potential for interesting conflict there.
>only the avatar can do it, so Korra has to deal with balancing that vs avatar duties>does everyone gets bending? even criminals and poormies?>who goes to the front of the line to get bending?>do some people want bending taken away for some reason?>can people from the Earth Kingdom get firebending?>can people learn multiple bending types (lacking avatar spirit might make it impossible)?>can you have trans-benders who change from bending one element to another?There's huge potential here but they instead did le ebin polisci 101 "social commentary."
No.5026
>>5025A better way to do communism for the Avatar world would be to expand scenes like Mako working as a lightningbender in the electrical power industry to have non-bender capitalists controlling and exploiting the labor of bender workers. That would actually fit for a take on communists as the Season One bad guys, if they wanna be libs they can just say that the bender workforce were right to oppose their exploitation and have a compromise between labor and capital.
But that would take even somewhat understanding communist ideology and unfortunately the two creators weren’t working with their original staff who could probably have done it better.
No.5027
>>5026*Were right to oppose exploitation but the “Equalists” went to far
No.5028
>>5026Well yeah the best way to do communism is to
do communism but I was talking about using bending as an equivalent for the means of production.
No.5051
>>5045I’d like to see your explanation 👋🏽
No.5052
>>5051>Zuko<Fire
Zuko starts in the first season as basically a human embodiment of the emotions and feelings encapsulated by Fire in the show (Hate, Anger, Bitterness, Revanchism etc)
<Water
During season 2 when he is being instructed by his uncle in the method to bend lightning his uncle explains to him the need to spiritually and emotionally understand water / waterbending as to gain the ability to bend lightning
<Earth
Basically through the third quarter of the first season and the majority of the second season Zuko is travelling through the Earth kingdom having to repeatedly fight earthbending guards and so on and adapts how he fights away from just throwing fireballs at things to being more creative. After the episode where he has the crazy fever dream and talked to the spirit dragons and shit (This is the turning point where i believe he understands "Earth) and fights Azula and the Dai-Lee he is seen literally making a wall of fire similar as to how Toph and over earthbenders had been seen making walls of rock and stone to throw at their enemies
<Air
Him fleeing the palace during the eclipse in season 3 as to mirror how Aang flees the Nomads temple during the storm in the first season and finally during the episode where he is shown the ancient style of firebending / fighting by the dragons which causes him to realise the purpose of "Air"
No.5054
>>5052>>5051>Sokka<Air
His entire journey with Aang after encountering him in the iceberg. deciding to leave his prior life behind go on the journey etc
<Earth
Meeting and being taught to fight by Suki / is given someone / something material real "Solid" he can fight for / ceases to be useless
<Water
Him ceasing to be a totally cynic ass during his time in the North pole and becoming more emotive at the end of season 1
<Fire
Being taught about battle by the master swordsman in the fire nation. Finally becomes an actual master swordsman who manages to help take down a whole air ship fleet
I believe that in effect all three of them did end up partaking in a "Avatar Journey" of sorts (Even though Aang is still the literal in-universe "Avatar") and all three could be said to embody some of or all the traits either required to be or present in the "Avatar" as a concept which is basically Christ / Buddha / Krishna - esque figure
No.5064
>>5027>the “Equalists” went to farNot this liberal garbage again. It was stupid enough when Toph said it in Season 4 and it still remains stupid.
>>5045>>5052>>5054Interesting analysis, quite philosophical.
No.5066
>>5064>Not this liberal garbage again. It was stupid enough when Toph said it in Season 4 and it still remains stupid. The creators are liberals, I’m not saying what I would write, I’m saying the storyline they could have written for it to make more sense
No.5067
>>5052>>5054Okay now explain why Korra was shiiiieeeet
No.5071
>>5067People have already in like half the posts ITT the reasons the Social / Economic commentary of Korra is absolutely garbage but i have wanted to make a post on what Korra tries to add to the Cosmology of the avatar universe
The Retconning of the avatar from being a series of mortals who reach the supreme attainment yet choosing to reincarnate as to help others into the Avatar basically being a meat puppet guided subconsciously by one of the two princple gods of the universe (The Blue sting ray thing that gets dragged out of Korra) is quite stupid and dosent really add anything to the story
The introduction of these two gods though does do some interesting things as it helps establish the world of avatar having a Emanation cosmology which basically interprets that reality has descended in numerous stages First from an absolute nothing or pre existence towards an existence of relative "Nothing" where the existence of something is possibly followed by movement (time) which is followed by existence in the sense of a timeless unity which devolves into dualism which devolves into the spiritual and finally the material
This graph i made tries to explain how the universe was made in the Avatar lore basically according to this
No.5082
>>5071The good/evil spirit thing was the stupidest shit ever. The whole thing for the avatar was creating balance and harmony but apparently the true nature of reality and "balance" is good triumphs over evil.
No.5086
>>5082>good triumphs over evilThat's not a problem, not in terms of story telling nor Avatar itself, in a way that is the story told by ATLA; Aang destined to beat Ozai. The problem with Korra is how it DEVALUES the triumph of good over evil.
No.5112
Started rewatching and forgot how based this show can be. The episode on the prison derrick in book one has a solidly materialist point. Katarra tries to rally the prionsers to fight back and escape and nothing happens. Only when they arm the earthbenders do they fight back.
No.5177
>>2563I don't think liberals would be this straight orientalist, Avatar takes the orientalism of previous western pop culture to its logical conclusion
No.5326
Rewatching Avatar on Netflix and I just gotta ask
Why was this show so much fucking better than Legend of Korra? Did they not try at all with LoK?
No.5327
>>5177>Orientalism is when your show isn’t in Western inspired cultures?
No.5328
>>5326Aaron Ehasz was the guy who was head writer for literally every Avatar episode and he was completely absent from LoK.
That's the whole reason why essentially.
(Ehasz now has his own show on Netflix called The Dragon Prince btw)
No.5329
>>5328Was he not interested or did they fire him?
No.5330
>>5329It might be because he got #metood but this might have been while he was working on Dragon Prince
No.5331
>>5326LoK tries to deal with 20th century politics but it's made by uncreative and dishonest liberals
No.5339
>>5327>Orientalism is a presentation of style, artefacts, or traits considered characteristic of the peoples and cultures of Asia by Western writers/artists/viewersDoes that answer your question(mark)?
>>5326Avatar was a planned well-thought passion project that attempted to tell a coherent 3-part serialized adventure/quest story, using characteristics and cultural references from Eastern cultures, while allowing themselves leeway by creating a fictional world inspired by said cultures and their spiritual philosophies (primarily Daoism and Confucianism). This also allowed for a basic magic system (bending) that had 4 simple tenets that could be expanded slightly (ice, blood, lightning or metal bending), but retained the principles of the basics.
LoK takes the prior series, and just making it into a 1920s Americanism… which clashes horribly with the concepts of the preceding series, especially since bending, a power available to many but not all, would shape industrial progression a lot. Toph's metal bending ALONE ought to be revolutionary, and the fire-nation's huge industry demonstrates the potential as well.
The creative tactics and weapons during the Eclipse attack on the Fire Nation and their inventive creators also shows this, yet we're supposed to believe that things just went to "the roaring 20s" for no reason? The idea that lightning bending is a mundane job is interesting, because it implies that firebenders are taught properly so that they can do it too, rather than only a select royal few who get private tutoring on the matter, which implies a socialized education system in regard to Bending. This is never shown and contradicted by the "Batman"-esque story of Mako and Bolin, growing up on the streets. clearly Bryke, because Erhaz was gone (
>>5328 ) had nothing to moderate their liberalism, and the success of ATLA had gotten to their head.
TL;DR: Korra is to ATLA as Boruto is to Naruto.
No.5340
>>5339>Does that answer your question(mark)?So unironically
<White people should only depict white people cultures
?
Idpozzed as fuck bruh
No.5348
>>5340>White people should only depict white people culturesI don't know how you came to that conclusion. A person from an outside point of origin will still tell a story from that view. The point (as far as I can tell) is that Avatar the Last Airbender took a lot of Oriental inspiration for its story but also did not shy away from stereotypes like "le asian spiritualism" and other stuff, which isn't inherently bad, but is consistent with prior Western Pop Culture (Kung-Fu/Karate movies for example).
The idpol only comes with Korra which decides to insert needless Americana into an Asia-inspired setting.
No.5355
>>5329I think he was writing for Futurama at the time of Korra's first season and potentially for the later ones too.
And as a result Bryke decided they could probably handle it without him (they could not).
>>5330Yeah that seems to be a fairly recent debacle, and I imagine there's not much noise about it because it doesn't seem like a substantive case.
No.5357
>>5348How is it "Le Asian Spiritualism" tho?
Is a show in fantasy Europe or the Viking age that depicts magic, spirits, and monsters there showing "le whitey spiritualism"?
What about supernatural christian mythology shit?
Should ATLA have just…not had spirituality in it? Should it have not had characters with any sort of connection to said spirituality?
From re-watching the series, the spirituality of it is incredibly varied. The Fire Nation doesn't come off as highly spiritual at all and in fact has no respect whatsoever for the Spirit World aside from Iroh and later Zuko, the country actively destroys nature, is attempting genocide, and one of their lead admirals personally killed a spirit for the sake of power and only Iroh attempted to stop him.
Aang comes from a particularly spiritual culture and was a master in this culture, besides which he's literally the Avatar so a connection to the Spirit World is part of his job description.
Sokka is incredibly secular and skeptical and Toph never came off as particularly spiritual. Katara is in between Aang and the others. The Earth Kingdom also comes off as a pretty secular culture. Really the only highly spiritual culture we encounter were the airbenders.
No.5358
>>5357>How is it "Le Asian Spiritualism" How is it not? The spirit-world is available to those who are most attuned with the spirits and nature. The best benders are also those who learn and are atuned to nature with the benders learning from the creatures of the world such as the firebenders from wise Eastern Dragons (a very stereotypical Eastern symbolism).
>"le whitey spiritualism"The fuck are you talking about? Why the use of a slur when I didn't use Gook or Chink or Nip?
>a show in fantasy Europe or the Viking age that depicts magic, spirits, and monstersIf being depicted by East-Asians? Yes. The spiritual Asian schtick comes from Western interpretations and stereotypes of Asian culture.
>Should ATLA have just…not had spirituality in itNigga do you have eyes? Did you not read what I wrote or are you just trying to bitch about something?
I literally said that a stereotype isn't inherently bad but is consistent with Western Pop Culture. How extensive an explanation do you want?
>the spirituality of it is incredibly variedYes, and? where did I say anything against that? Literally nothing you're saying is something I denied or disagreed with, I just pointed out that it is orientalist.
>>5355>doesn't seem like a substantive caseBesides the Weinstein case and other irrefutable examples, most of them are insubstantial.
No.5360
>>2562I have a strong dislike for series where innate supernatural powers are used as allegory for class separation.
No.5362
>>5360>innate supernatural powers are used as allegory for class separation.Well that's not really the case, though. As the original ATLA shows, conflicts and classism existed for millenia and bending was just a tool for that means. As shown in the last season, being a fire-bender does not automatically make you privileged, it merely allows for a single advantage over non-benders which is not assured (see Ty Lee, Mai and Sokka) While it is true that non-benders are ridiculed in the system, that does not exclude heirarchy. The King of Ba SIng Se is a non-bender, and many royalty and upperclassmen are non-benders (Bei Fong family).
Regardless your strong dislike is unmerited unless it is done in a hamfisted way, which in ATLA, it is not, while in LoK it is.
No.5363
>>5362The King of Ba Sing Se is obviously a puppet.
And it always begets the question why benders are not using their powers to their advantages, but that shit is also constantly present in cape.
Why I dislike the innate superpowers so much is because they kinda feel like wishful thinking from the rich kids producing this show. Sure you may be shorter smarter and so on, but this all gets superimposed by money. Money feels like a superpower to them, but that it away and all that remains is a chump.
I would not object this so much, if those bending skills were acquirable, but that is not the case sadly and I wonder why it is so seldom done.
No.5369
>>5360>>5363ATLA uses non-bending as an allegory for physical disability.
No.5374
>>5371>>5363>puppetBut the Bei Fong family are not and neither are other nobility of Earth and Fire.
>why benders are not using their powers to their advantagesExcept they do? Zuko Alone shows an episode where Earthbender soldiers
use their bending to lord over a village and force them to give them food under threats of attack.
>dislike the innate superpowers so much is because they kinda feel like wishful thinking from the rich kids producing this showWell for one, I think wishful thinking for superpowers is something near-everyone hs at almost any age, The point is not to let such day-dreaming affect your day to day life or make something good from them (creating an interesting and well-written fiction like ATLA). Moreover bending has limits and is rferential to things in real life, such as martial-art forms which in turn gives it limitation and definition. This is similar to Ful Metal Alchemist (not that I'm a fan), where 'Alchemy' require specific symbols and materials to produce something.
>Money feels like a superpower to them, but that it away and all that remains is a chumpPerhaps, however a chump, regardless of all his money cannot make art, cannot animate, story-board properly, study martial-arts and East-Asian cultures or otherwise create an intelligent well-made show. Want evidence? take a look at Steven Universe. Rebeca Sugar is doing this with her 'friends' and basically just throws money at sweat-shop animators who don't even have proper character-sheets or story-boards to work with. Rebercca, being the rich kid paying for and 'making' it, creates an appropriate producet - absolute schlock.
Even Korra, despite all my criticism has a certain level of animation quality and basic story-boarding, not matter how idiotic some of it may be. Thus the lack of Ehasz meant that Bryke had no counter-balance that made ATLA what it was.
> not object this so much, if those bending skills were acquirableThey are, but not easily. It is shown that people learned bending from the creatures of their world, with a genetic component playing a part. A bender with no training may live like an ordinary person all their life, like person with magic living normally. We see this with the Earthbenders, such as those in the Fire Nation prison who were just plain villagers with mediocre bending compared to someone trained like Toph or King Bumi.
TL;DR: Its a magic system in a world of magic, which is why direct comparison is foolish. Allegories are secondary material in the story, and as long as it is properly introduced/world-built, the powers and their cultures are acceptable as part of the fantasy and the quest we are following.
No.5445
>>5369That's kind of dubious since most people can't bend and that's considered the norm whereas bending is considered a special gift with spiritual meaning behind it.
No.5532
>>5531my theory is that Jin Wei and Wei Jin were the same person and in failing to complete the redemption ritual he was cast out from the Gan Jin tribe to form or join the Zhang tribe.
No.5550
What if Korra was actually based and classpilled?
>Amon's plan has little to do with bending and is just organizing a proletarian revolution, but the conditions aren't ripe so he fails, but leaves an impression on Korra
>none of the dumb light vs dark shit happens, and instead the plot is about Unalaq using nationalism and the civil war to quell class tensions and get the water tribe to accept "the balance" as in class collaboration and instead of merging the material and spirit worlds Korra just merges the water tribes paving the way for internationalism
>Zaheer and the others don't just get airbending by deus ex machina, instead the Red Lotus found a way to unlock energy bending and give bending to the masses. Also they are organizing an anarchist insurrection instead of just assassinating politicians.
>Kuvira never gains power, instead Korra is the antagonist trying to preserve order and the supporting cast have to make the choice of whether to side with the status quo or the international revolution
No.5551
>>5550No it’s the exact opposite
No.5552
I just finished Avatar and it was such gas. But what I'm getting from this thread is that I should just stop there and not bother with the Legend of Korra? COrrect?
No.5553
>>5550All this would be great… y'know, except the Kuvira stuff, because she's absolutely based.
Honestly Korra should have learned different lessons from Amon (equality between people is hindered by the differing situations of benders and non-benders as well as different classes of people. Unalaq would have swayed her with populism (class-collaborationist thought) yet she would realize that people cannot be simply complacent when she sees the abuses this leads to. From Zaheer she would learn the opposite lesson; that chaos and anarchy cannot be allowed to run freely because its liberation will swiftly turn deadly without anything to moderate it. Finally she would find kinship in Kuvira who restores order but also intends to spread things equally and properly, collectivizing and redistributing food. Also, if they had to have a lesbian ending for Korra (cringe idpol as it was), that would be a much better ship to have.
PS along the way they realize what a subtly manipulative porky Asami is and confront her over being like her father but more insidious, leading to 2 options, forced dekulakization or voluntary collectivization of her private property.
>>5531The point of the episode was that both had their own truths and it was foolish to hold a feud over something so inane as a family story without proofs.
>>5551That's the point of
>>5550 They mean if Korra had been written in a class-conscious way, rather than how it was actually executed.
>>5552>Stop thereYes. The good parts of Korra are outweighed by its cringe.
>>2756I'm Ashamed to say I forgot to post the original series of E;R's review of LoK, aptly named Legend of Whorra.
Playlist of it, 1-4 as well as all 4 Reniggings reviews:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJvE6-ZPK6g7B0vCH_jZOUUQSiSnhQVikRecently E;R also released a review of a graphic novel of LoK starting from just after the End of Series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaGmgXR9iFM No.5565
>>5552Korra is pretty shit. The art and production design are good but basically everything else is ass, especially compared to TLA. Straight downgrade. Especially the writing. It's really obvious there were major rewrites at a couple of points that completely fucked the plot(s), and half the characters have less personality than most one-scene characters in TLA.
No.5591
Best character arc in ATLA?
No.5597
>>5595Eh
Iroh didn’t need development
He started where he ended
Honestly I’d say either Katara or Sokka
No.5601
>>5597I think Zuko's arc is one of the more satisfying redemption arcs to come out of pop culture in recent years
No.5603
>>5591Aang easily has the most going on of anybody, but for quality of writing and character arc I'd go with Katara or Zuko.
No.5611
>>5591OP here: That's actually a big theme of the show and why the OP image was chosen.
Zuko, Sokka and Katara.
- Toph is like a rock, largly unchanged, just smoothed out and sharper by the end in terms of skills
- Iroh, as pointed out in
>>5597 didn't need to develop, if anything he was the character that displayed completed development from the start, with his only development being his decision to be more active in going against his brother Ozai's moves for power.
- Aang did develop, but primarily it was him getting over his insecurities and learning his Avatar duties rather than a significant change.
Meanwhile Sokka went from a boy full of bravado and a narrow-minded attitude, to a more competent fighter and strategist, to finally a full blown warrior.
Katara went from an uneducated and kind girl with a temper and an unhoned ability to a skilled waterbender with a brave heart and finally a young woman with a mastery of waterbending and real maturity.
Finally Zuko went from an angry, dishonored prince, who thinks himself more adult than he acts to a more rational youth who understands what is truly important to him and finally a matured young man that has gained the self-reflection needed to be a fair and just ruler.
No.5627
>>5622So long as its not liberal drivel I'll take it
No.5629
>>5622You avoid ruining the mystique by making the series about the White Lotus from Korra or between the two series. Hell, a series about how the world got from TLA to Korra would be interesting in itself.
No.5642
>>5629>>5627It's something like a political thriller set in the immediate post ATLA years, Republic city is in its infancy and the White Lotus has to defend it from nefarious actors who would try to derail or coup the Republic, could make for some great TV
No.5675
>>5597character development is completely overrated, admit it. every scene with Iroh is a highlight in the show. people circlejerk about Zuko has "so much character development omg" but the reality is that it was actually painful and cringeworthy to watch him at the beginning of the show.
No.5693
>>5675Yes, it's supposed to be painful and cringeworthy at the beginning. The whole point is that people like Zuko was at the beginning can become better.
>>5642Having some run-ins with factions from both series would also allow them to be fleshed out so they're less retarded. You could even save the Red Lotus by introducing new characters who are the brains of the organization and get killed, leaving only people like Zaheer who have a mutated version of the ideology.
No.5699
>>5696>Honestly I think any future series should just ignore or outright retcon Korra.I agree but let's be realistic.
>With that in mind since the setting of Avatar during Republic City times is capitalist, I think it would be interesting if the Equality movement was a parallel to the real world syndcalist movementI think if we're doing an interquel we should be drawing more from Asian history than western history, like ATLA did. IMO the worst thing about Korra isn't even the bad plots but the way they took a distinctly inspired world taking from a lot of non-western cultures and doused it with gallons of burgeroid spunk. If you just take the situation in ATLA and carry it forward you get the question of how the Fire Nation interacts with the rest of the world in peacetime. I'd expect economic imperialism which would raise a lot of questions for the protagonists and audience. The 100 year war was basically an anti-colonial effort against people who thought they were going to modernize the backward parts of the world. How much of this ideology Zuko retains as the new Fire Lord would be something to explore. How would he handle transitioning the Fire Nation from a total war economy to something else? The Fire Nation in general gets very little exploration in either series tbh.
No.5709
>>5445That's only because of the war going on. I'm sure like 90% of benders get drafted. Not much of an advantage when you gotta die fighting.
No.5733
>>5721Yeah it's a few seasons in and it still doesn't have strong worldbuilflding, they'll really need to improve on that if there's gonna be a new season
No.5738
>>5721I think that ATLA really needed the trinity of Konietzko, DiMartino, and Ehasz. Bryke understood worldbuilding and Ehasz understood character. ATLA had both. Korra only had Bryke, which had some interesting worldbuilding at times but it clashed with the writing and made it even worse. Dragon Prince has solid writing but the setting is kind of just there. It rarely plays into the story or gets explored enough to make it interesting or even clear.
No.5745
>>5738That being said Dragon Prince is a much more watchable show than Korra
No.5752
>>5745Story is almost always more important than worldbuilding so yes. Also by leaving a lot of the world unexplained you at least make it more mysterious. Doing the similar thing with your characters (like Korra did) and not giving them a lot of characterization just makes them boring.
No.5754
>>5721Its bloody interesting but the RWBY-level 3D models and effects give me Dragon-Booster flashbacks. Its the exact opposite of Korra's issues, which had great 2D animation with horrendous plot and characters.
>>5696>any future series should just ignore or outright retcon KorraLike with the Disney sequels, that ain't happening anytime soon.
>>5622As long as it doesn't include Korra and has proper story direction.
No.5809
>>5789a story about the unification of the fire nation would be cool
we know that during the Kyoshi period, the fire nation was still not unified.
No.5822
>>2816>Aang should have come up with a way to do this thanks to his wits & established hints, not a magic solution literally handed to him by a giant magic turtlePossibly the most briliant example of this I've seen (also admittedly a huge bone of contention among fans at the time, but those people were tosspots) was the finale of the FMA manga/Brotherhood anime.
All the pieces of the puzzle are in the protagonist's and audience's hands alike by at least 1/3rd through the story, and it all comes down to a moment of
truth with the protagonist forced to think hard and realize what he truly is or isn't willing to sacrifice within his moral principles.
No.5823
Actual depiction of SPD’s alliance with Freikorps
https://youtu.be/bnwLIdisr_Y No.5835
>>5823god i want azula to fuck me
No.5836
>>5835wanna fuck shortstak toph
No.5863
>>5837Somebody working on the series definitely had a foot fetish.
No.5877
>>5876>I can also use my earthbending to sense how hung you areReminder that Toph could "see" every time her parents or friends fucked or took a shit or whatever. Suki and Sokka had sex where she could easily sense it, and Suki at least having reason to suspect Toph had a crush on Sokka.
No.5879
>>5863>>5872>>5875>>5876>>5877>>5836>>5835Stop this lewding
and making me want to fuck Toph and give her footrubs you dicks.
No.6874
I was hoping the voice actress for Azula would be as hot as I imagined her :\
No.6875
>>6867It's called an image dump. Lurk more.
No.6881
>>6875I know what an image dump is, and that;s called spam. This isn't 4chan /trash/ where threads are fast and massive. Look you posted good pics, but don't dump shit like that, 3 images 6 image, fine, but everything at once is just a waste.
>>6874>:/What's wrong with Grey DeLisle?
No.6889
>>6881Wanna put my face in them melons
No.6987
>>6986Eh, he was. He's gotten sort of cucked under Kathleen Kennedy. He changed the final season of Clone Wars a lot, and much of it was quite tasteless.
No.6989
>>6987The Mandalore arc was gas though and that made up for the boring Martez sisters, but yes point taken.
No.7718
>>5879>TophHnnngh and good taste pilled. For me, it's Toph and Mai. Now post some Mai, bros
No.8329
Could Aang using the avatar state to fight Ozai be a metaphor for the USSR at Stalingrad?
No.8674
>>8329While you can use it as a metaphor, there is nothing to really support this that I have seen.
No.8953
>>2888>Avatar: Legend of Kuvira>Earth Kingdom collapses into a multi-sided, fractal civil war>lead a small group of loyal followers, build up a freedom force from practically nothing>Earth Empire citizens hate Wu so much they chase him away and praise Kuvira as their savior>find yourself becoming a leader of men, of a nation>struggle with the new realities of bestriding the world stage, facing down statelets that aren't evil like your original enemies>insidious foreign interests want to install a puppet ruler who'll laze around the palace all day>stamp out hunger, illiteracy, crime>stand before the leaders of the world and reject their smiling conquest of your people>end thousands of years of monarchy>reclaim territory stolen by imperialist colonizers>end centuries of national humiliation>choose love of country over love of flesh>get called evil for Doing the Right Thing>adopted mother tries to murder you>face off against a living god… and win The only reason she's a villain is because at the last minute she pulled a giant mech out of her ass and decided to annex Republic city through force. If she had played the long game and not aggressively annexed Republic City through conquest she would've definitely won. Even then the only reason she lost at all is because they decided to have her waltz into the city with the mech instead of standing 3 km away and threatening to nuke the city unless they surrendered.
Honestly what was the problem of Kuivira annexing Republic City when she already oversaw Kiyoshi Island? The colonies are Earth Kingdom territory by default. She could sit down to discuss things further with Raiko and turn the cities into a special-administrative zone that ultimately answers to the Empire, but still run local affairs.
The only gripe people could have that was demonstrated was when she put the hands of desperate bandits on a train track and told them to either kneel and join her army, or leave them there until the next train comes. Dragooning bandits into her army and giving them a new sense of purpose working for society instead of against it is exactly what the GULAG system did so I see no issues.
No.8954
The most important question was never answered in this thread.
Kitang or Zutara?
Wasnt Ang younger than Kitara, she seemed lukewarm to him the whole episode and in the end decides to be with him out of duty only or something. Seemed zuko would have been better for her.
No.8955
>>8954It's spelled Katara and Aang anon.
Katara and Aang were only 1-2 years apart in age, so are Zuko and Katara. The latter have a few bonding moments of trust (such as in the crystal caves and when Katara sought revenge) but had a lot of bad blood between them.
Aang and Katara hit it off from the moment they met. It wasn't lukewarm so much as already established and assured; they were past angst of "does s/he love me, does s/he not?"
No.8960
>>8955Oh my bad. I get that the show was set up to make them a couple in the end, but many times in the early part of the show Katara refers to him as just a friend and Aang struggles with it a lot. The turning point for Katara seemed to be when the mystic said she would be with a powerful bender and she assumed it was Aang and started considering him as an option. The whole show did seem a bit deterministic with destiny being an important guiding force for the characters, but it kind of defeated the point of a spontaneous passionate love that can arise from nondeterminism. I think this is why Aang was insecure around Jet when Katara seemed to fall for him hard initially. The whole thing was very confucian, where the love was more forced and taken for granted as part of one’s destiny. Saka didn’t seem to have the same problem maybe because he was more of the analytic mindset.
No.8963
Katara and Aang's relationship was super forced. She loved him, but in a platonic, motherly, nom-romantic way and putting them together in the end was so icky.
Also the maturity difference between the two is huge, Aang is like a kid constantly wanting to play and goof around, rarely taking things seriously, while Katara has had to grow up fast since she was a young girl and lost her mother - she is mature, responsible and years ahead of him in maturity. It felt so forced in the end, like she was just giving in to destiny based on what the fortune-teller said and because she felt obligated, there was no chemistry, no passion, no romantic love as there shouldn't be because the gap between them mentally is quite large.
Zuka would have been a better fit for her, but it would have been better for them to end the show with her single instead of her giving herself to Aang like some victory prize for him.
No.8964
>>8960Yes, this is fairly well put, sh's not serious at first, but upon seeing Aang as more than just a kid, she becomes more enamored with him, as he is with her.
Sokka was analytical indeed, and he naturally knew how to placate a girl, no doubt due to his arguments with his sister, thus when he meets Suki, he admits his arrogance and learns from her, and throughout his travels strives to be a better man.
>>8963>Katara and Aang's relationship was super forced.<She loved him like a mother
I can agree with her being a mother-hen, but that applied to the whole group, and originates from her growing up without her mother. The relationship isn't forced because it isn't a big deal. Aang has a crush, Katara doesn't notice regardless of what he does. Then she hears a prophecy and the words of Sokka about Aang, make her reconsider her stance on Aang, but she doesn't get all lovey-dovey or anything. The few moments she had were sparse and very childish between the both of them, such as when they were stuck in the labyrinth of the two lovers.
>Aang is like a kid constantly wanting to play and goof aroundNo, he acts like that because he KNOWS he has a lot of responsibility and needs to relax and release his stress, he is very mature for his age but still needs a coping method. Katara acts mature, but her age shows when she gets challenged by someone like Toph or when situations get tough (heh). She's not much older than Aang either, and her behavior prior to meeting Aang and setting out on their journey is still that of a teen girl.
>she was just giving in to destiny based on what the fortune-teller saidYou missed the point, the fortune telling is just suggestions and guesswork, but also effort because destiny is not a set-stone path.
>obligatedBy what? A powerful bender could be a lot of people… FFS King Bumi is a powerful bender, Toph is a powerful bender, Zuko is a powerful bender.
>there was no chemistry, no passionBecause it is a PG show about barely-teen kids setting off to end a 100-year war while learning body-magic.
>Zuka would have been a better fit for her, but it would have been better for them to end the show with her single instead of her giving herself to Aang like some victory prize for himI agree with the latter part of this sentence.
No.8967
>>8963There's plenty of times when Katara shows romantic interest in Aang. She just does it less often. One of her major character traits is difficulty expressing her own feelings of attachment. She gets a whole episode about this at the beginning of season 3 revolving around her abandonment issues with her dad. Aang on the other hand falls for Katara immediately because he wears his heart on his sleeve.
>>8954Zutara is full retard. She spends almost the whole series hating his guts, and not in the "I love you but pretend to hate you" way. At first Katara is outright racist toward the Fire Nation because of her experiences, and then the grows to hate Zuko on a personal level. It's only because she's naturally compassionate (and hot for bad boys) that she ever shows Zuko any kindness before she's reminded of their history and her biases.
No.8979
>Korra wants to resolve things peacefully
<No Korra we need to kill that bitch! (whom I raised like my own daughter, but bonds mean nothing).
Suyin was the real villain of season four. Her and her cunt daughter who treated Bolin (and Kuvira) like trash for no good reason. Then get all surprised he defects to Kuvira's side. Suyin essentializes bourg, middle-age divorced women who engage in entitled liberal social activism, but when the cards are down backs down and backtracks from her virtue signalling with stupid platitudes and pseudtalk. The further you listen to Suyin when she loses her composure, the more you see the rot inside, such as when she told her sister "No wonder Tenzin ended things with you years ago"
The only reason Kuvira is seen as the villain is because of the ideologism of
>AUTOCRACY BAD, LIBERAL WESTERN DEMOCRACY GOOD
Even though I don't know how that works in Avatar World. Especially from a collapsing kingdom. Like Prince Wu just going "okay we're a Republic now" isn't going to work, especially not coming directly out of the collapse of one of the most powerful nation states in the world. All that's going to happen is civil war and it'll just re-balkanize. The UR president admitted that the new king was going to be little more than a puppet controlled by "advisors" he had picked. It literally reflects current leadership of other countries controlled by NATO. Kuvira had the right idea of using a strong hand to bring the state back together and rule it efficiently so it could rebuild. Then she could gradually begin to liberalize after a few years once things are stable. Kuvira is excessive, but not because "muh evul villain" but because the needs of the many are being forgotten. It's what makes her different to the mad queen that is Azula.
FFS she isn't even going that far off Suyin's ideology
>Growing up in Zaofu, with Suyin Beifong, I learned that the idea of a royal family passing a title from one generation to the next was archaic, and that technology and innovation should be what drives a nation forward. It was the pathetic rule of kings and queens that caused the Earth Kingdom to descend into such incredible disarray. It's taken me three years to get it back on track, and there is no way I will allow it to slip back into the dark ages. I'd like to make an announcement to the world: the Earth Kingdom is no more. I have created a new Earth Empire, and I will continue to lead it into the future myself, bringing about a new era of prosperity for my people. And let me assure my fellow leaders of one thing: Anyone who crosses our borders or stands in our way, will be crushed.
Yet while the rest of the Earth Kingdom rotted away into civil war, illiteracy, poverty, and etc. Zaofu has sat on Earth Kingdom territory away from it all, shielding themselves away from the rest of the kingdom, and pretending to be an independent nation who was "better" than everyone and more "progressive" and when everyone wanted to be like them and needed their help, what did they do?
They looked away from it and said "That is what you get". They showed no remorse or kindness to their own brethren. Instead of uplifting the rest of the nation to aspire to become like them, they looked down on everyone and the irony to it all is that the advance city of artisans was ran no different from the Queen of Ba Sing Se.
Kuivra was right to tear down the walls of Zaofu and bring it back in line. They looked down and cursed her along with everyone from Zaofu who followed her because they knew she was going to bring the rest of the Earth Kingdom up to their level and then they would no longer be special or above them, instead they would be painfully average and equals.
Also, it's implied Zaofu was built through piracy and other crimes done when she was in "Exile" All her closest followers were ex pirates and criminals given "a second chance". Yet when Kuvira does it more roughly "dats bad". (Suyin being a big criminal boss would have been an interesting dynamic between her and her sister and be consistent).
No.9000
>>8954Nah fam, this ain't it.
Zuko belongs with Mai.
She was his childhood sweetheart but didn't actually start dating him seriously until he proved himself as a man to the Fire Nation (earning his place to sit at the literal Right Hand of the Father in that one meeting in final season) and then she stayed loyal to him against Azula's commands when he finally proved himself as an independent, courageous, principled moral agent/anti-imperialist/"traitor" to the Fire Nation by rejecting the Father's plan for global genocide and helping Aang & Crew.
Literally the GOAT couple of the ATLA universe.
No.9076
>>9074Obscure bending styles suddenly being commonplace is one of the worst aspects of Korra. The logic seems to be that industrialization makes everything easier, but that shouldn't apply to techniques using just the human body. The logic of metal bending is that it requires exceptional talent to perceive and manipulate the impurities. The logic of lightning bending is that it's extremely volatile and difficult to control without dying. But this (like a lot of other things) is completely forgotten in Korra.
On Korra's fighting style, she's not just doing simplistic attacks, she's going all-out on almost every attack. This makes her slow and easy to dodge. She can't even do something as simple as combine a jab and a hook or do a feint. Her approach only works on someone who sucks, like a grunt, or if she has the Avatar State that ramps up her attacks into AOE damage so dodging stops helping.
No.9077
>>9074>BTW something that a few people have noticed; Isn't wearing metal armor, in a time when metal bending is fairly wide-spread a really stupid idea?It's weird that it doesn't come up considering this is basically how P'Li dies, even though it's not
her armor.
No.9083
>>9076Lightning and Metal-Bending, while a stretch is still plausible, Zuko and Toph had a few decades to train people and those people to train others. The real question is fucking Blood-bending.
Katara and the lady who taught her knows how to, but it still relied on the moon and was inspired by sheer desperation. Katara swore to never use it or teach it. The experimentation needed for this requires a lot of free-time and other factors, yet there is this family of benders who can say "fuck the moon, I'll blood bend anyday!" Not only was it a shitty twist to discredit Amon (and somehow the anti-bender WATERBENDER WHO FIGHTS OTHER BENDERS didn't think to use non-washable make-up).
Honestly it would have been a better twist if the person who learned blood bending, did it because he wanted to manipulate tits to jiggle (pic 2 related), that would be better than the shit we got with Noatok, Tarlok and Yakkone. Especially with that depressing double-suicide ending.
>>9077Yeah that's a good example!
No.9086
>>9083>Katara swore to never use it or teach it.It didn't take her long to break that promise in ATLA to be fair. She does it at least one time later when she goes on the trip with Zuko to track down the raiders.
>The experimentation needed for this requires a lot of free-time and other factors, yet there is this family of benders who can say "fuck the moon, I'll blood bend anyday!"Them knowing blood bending is believable because if Hama could invent it so could someone else. What's not believable is just doing it any time, but I guess that's the old shonen power creep. The thing is they could have had some plausible explanation for it, like how Sokka's space sword was forged from a meteor. If someone held an amulet made from moon rocks there'd at least be some reason and not just because. That version would also create an obvious limit or weakness that a power like bloodbending absolutely needs to have. You could even explore the possibility of denying the power by taking away the amulet, but having a limited time to deal with the foe before the full moon gives them the power back. It is just really shitty writing.
>(and somehow the anti-bender WATERBENDER WHO FIGHTS OTHER BENDERS didn't think to use non-washable make-up). This and the premise being dumb in general make me think they came up with it last-minute. Originally the show was supposed to be a limited series with about half the episodes season 1 ended up with, so maybe originally they didn't even have an explanation for the de-bending and it was just a mystery. If they had more time to plan a full season they probably could have done something more sensible.
>Honestly it would have been a better twist if the person who learned blood bending, did it because he wanted to manipulate tits to jiggle (pic 2 related), that would be better than the shit we got with Noatok, Tarlok and Yakkone.What would have actually been good is if they explored Aang's energy bending abilities in a completely different way. He had every reason to try using it to restore Airbenders to the world. It was already established that the air acolytes exist preserving the culture, and we know he can use energybending to give people bending because he did it with Korra. The plot
could have been that he was experimenting with energy bending for that purpose (which is where I thought the story was going anyway after the end of ATLA), and discovered a way for other people to learn energy bending. This would give Aang and Korra a similar situation to Roku and Aang and would have made Aang more morally ambiguous in a way that was actually consistent with his existing characterization.
>Especially with that depressing double-suicide ending.Fun fact, if Korra had also an heroed by jumping off the cliff most of the problems in the rest of the series would have been averted entirely.
<Unalaaq needed the avatar to free Vaatu (next one would be Earth Kingdom and probably not be recognized for over a decade)
<No ability to free Vaatu means no Water Tribe civil war shenanigans
<No Vaatu means the previous avatars remain connected and the cycle continues normally
<No Vaatu means no attacking Republic City
<No spirit portals means no spirit vines and no new airbenders
<No new airbenders means no Zaheer or Red Lotus plot
<No Red Lotus means Earth Kingdom doesn't fall
<Without the Earth Kingdom falling Kuvira doesn't rise to power
<Without the spirit vines and Kuvira, nobody plunders the Banyon Grove or builds the not-a-nuke spirit weapons or the giant mech
No.9087
>>9076>>9074>>9077Also, as an aside about Metal bending and how its used in regards to Platinum.
Platinum is actually "paramagnetic." Meaning that it can become magnetic in a magnetic field (such as near a permanent magnet), and one which Kuvira could actually generate herself (given the properties of metal-benders). Now yes the magnetism disappears when the magnetic field is removed, but in a pinch, Kuvira is not going to let that up until the mech is wrecked.
Plotwise
>Su-Yin has to make herself more of an irredeemable cunt to goad Kuvira into being evil>continuing the adventures of "We don't know the metallic properties of platinum"Remember when destroying the Drill outside Bah Sing Sei was really interesting and engaging, because the Drill worked on real world principles? So destroying the drill wasn't a big stupid fight with the outside of the machine, but an act of internal sabotage? What happened to that?
No.9089
>>9086>She does it at least one time later In a fit of revenge-fueled rage, she later gets guilty about it and if Korra or Kaya doesn't know it, I doubt anyone else was taught.
>if Hama could invent it so could someone elseTrue, but the situation is what led Hama to achieve it, desperate to use her waterbending to escape somehow she learned to pull it from the air and manipulate it in the body over at least a decade. Where is the motivation or time spent with Yakkone?
>shonen power creepWith shonen the power-creep is usually at least possible somehow or they at least explain why it is possible, or specify why its a special ability, which you pointed out yourself with the amulet idea.
> the show was supposed to be a limited series with about half the episodes season 1 ended up withFrom the interviews with Bryke, they were signed off on 2 seasons from the start, so I don't know about that. I just think they kept trying to create a "social villain" archetype and failing to actually address their arguments and ending up writing up some irrelevant shit to end it with Korra being the hero.
>Aang exploring energy bendingThe thing is, Amon used blood-bending, not energy-bending. He just imitated the stance.
>he did it with KorraWhich
A) Is a bullshit powerup
B) Doesn't make sense that somehow only her airbending was left
C) Was a bloodbending block, and should have been undone by Katara
>Korra jumping off the cliff would solve everything<All the following events
Of course it would LOL, but then there wouldn't be a series
and like BadComedian says "И Слава, блять, богу" No.9090
>>9087>What happened to that?IDK. The Drill (episode) was written by Bryan and Mike. The Last Stand (episode with going inside the mech) was written by Mike. I think they just didn't give a shit.
>True, but the situation is what led Hama to achieve it, desperate to use her waterbending to escape somehow she learned to pull it from the air and manipulate it in the body over at least a decade. Where is the motivation or time spent with Yakkone? The Fire Nation had plenty of Waterbender prisoners like Hama.
>The thing is, Amon used blood-bending, not energy-bending. He just imitated the stance.Yeah but they could have written it so that he was using energy bending and not do the stupid twist at all.
I agree with the stupid parts of Aang giving Korra the bending back, but I'm saying while he was still around surely he would have tried to give someone airbending? Like I dunno maybe his non-bending kid? He was around long enough to start rebuilding the Air Nomads, surely he could have tried to find a way to restore the bending instead of relying on having kids. Especially after he has two kids who can't airbend.
>Of course it would LOLNot at all. The whole point of the avatar is to maintain balance and handle conflicts that come up in the world, not to cause problems. That's what was happening in season 1 where Korra was responding to problems that had nothing to do with her at first. Season 2 and 3 partly revolve around the Avatar and/or are direct consequences of her changing the world instead of maintaining balance. There are plenty of conflicts they could have come up with that
needed Korra to solve them instead of being a non-issue if she was dead.
No.9094
>>9090>plenty of Waterbender prisoners like Hama.And only she ever achieved it, which is why I'm so incredulous of it happening.
> while he was still around surely he would have tried to give someone airbending?Oh yeah I definitely agree. THey probably weren't smart enough to think of that though.
> The whole point of the avatar is to maintain balance and handle conflicts that come up in the world, not to cause problemsI know, but I mean Korra as a character is definitely the cause of more issues than the solution.
No.9122
>>9119excuse me azula is more toned
No.9129
>>9119After neckbeard alt-right idiot Sargon described Azula as an evil Hermione Granger I had a bit of a thought; Bellatrix Lestrange of Harry Potter really reminds me of Azula in many aspects, including her progression over the series. Given that Azula appeared first in 2005, 2 years after Book 5 was published, I'd say it would be likely that there was some influence, given Brykes age and ideology.
Suffice to say I was not wholly surprised that a few others may have had the same idea though many Azula fans - (especially those who read the comics or nitpicked details of her underlying insecurities) - tend to try and justify her*.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13063087/1/How-Azula-And-Bellatrix-Lestrange-Are-The-Same-And-Different*
https://bellatrixobsessed1.tumblr.com/post/182633944871/everyone-meet-bellatrix-lestrange-this-is-whatOn the note of justifying her or portraying Azula in deth with accuracy, I surprisingly find the fanwork crossover Black Flame Blue Fire, to be a very good depiction of Azula; broken, insecure and clearly traumatized in some way, but also fundamentally evil in a way that was almost impossible to repair - very similar to Tom Marvolo Riddle and Bellatrix Lestrange actually, especially given her obsession with Sasuke, who is depicted as remorseless and brutal (if offset by his internal turmoil).
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13631681/1/Black-Flame-Blue-FireI would guess in Rowling's 100% canon Cursed Child revisions Azula could also be Delphi, the child Lestrange had in secret with Voldemort who later attempted to stop him from destroying himself by going back in time.
Incidentally, Rowling, Brian, and Mike are all writers who make me ponder whether their original work was sheer fluke or somehow plagiarized. I guess success sometimes breeds total disillusionment with reality, even when they have the comparison of their own creation.
As a side note, I wouldn't mind seeing Azula go at it with Bellatrix.
No.9130
>>9129Bryke had Aaron Ehasz writing the series arcs. They and Rowling were both corrupted by being too online before they went on to write the garbage later installments.
No.9139
>>9129>As a side note, I wouldn't mind seeing Azula go at it with BellatrixThey're both insane fighters so it would make for a cool cat-fight. That phrase could also be taken a different way (pic 2)
Unlike, say, Naruto-verse - where even academy students can move like blurs when they try - the speed of most Avatar characters is just superhuman (partially due to cartoon physics) with things like Zuko cleaving huge stone boulders with his swords and element-based speed boosts.
Bellatrix is shown to be physically capable and durable:
- Throwing a knife with accuracy at a disapparating Dobby and landing the hit dead center
- Restraining Hermione while carving Mudblood in her arm
- Disregarding flying rock shards and being dismissive of a Crucio by anyone other than Voldemort
Her spell-casting and over-all dueling capabilities are highly regarded
- Beats multiple aurors and killed the highly skilled (if distracted) Sirius
- Toyed with Harry like nothing forcing him to hide and stall
- Was fast enough to curse several wizards including a were-wolf (who have increased reflexes) within seconds before any of them could even react
Unfortunately there are few feats given her depiction only appearing in Book/Movie 5 and being a Secondary Antagonist.
Etc.:
https://old.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/ar1psr/respect_bellatrix_lestrange_harry_potter_books/ https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Bellatrix_LestrangeAzula has excellent form, abilities and fearlessness I would dare say surpassing her own father in skill, if not power.
https://old.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/fhgdgg/respect_azula_avatar_the_last_airbender/ All things considered however Azula's fire is negated by several forms of defense on part of Bellatrix.
- Flame-freezing charm (makes heat and flames harmless)
- Protego (works on physical and energy attacks)
- Aguamenti (water is a hard counter to fire)
- Transfigured or conjured walls to block attacks
- Apparating out of harm's way
- Killing curse and in fact any spell are all easy for Bellatrix to spam (and has) and fire won't block them unless it's that very specific fire-shield*
- Disillusioning herself to be near-invisible
- Fiendfyre burns away anything and cannot be put out except by a caster who can control it (Bellatrix can)
Azula's best bet is the lightning and maybe that fire-shield of hers, since its power and speed are much harder to block or dodge, BUT it is more taxing and has less area of effect. She's fast, but not fast enough to avoid being cursed, unlike a faster character like Kakashi. Of course she would still try her best, her pride and arrogance would allow no less, but she would have to be constantly dodging and throwing out attacks and would eventually fuck up and get hit with something nasty. Spells tend to fly slow, but certainly no slower than bending attacks.
Honestly an earth bender would be a much better counter to Bellatrix, since they can outright block spells and attack from below and with solid projectiles, with a water-bender being a close second.
*That fire shield is totally a rip-off of the Hyuuga Kaiten technique.
No.9144
>>9124Good sir,
the teenage royal academy alumna lightning bending martial-artist princess running around the world like a pre-industrial James Bond has a tight tummy and you can't convince me otherwise.
No.9145
>>9130Is Ehasz /ourguy/? He seems to be what kept A:TLA from not being lib propaganda like book one of LOK
No.9149
What I don't understand is the shallow comparisons between Kuvira and Azula, because "muh fascist/monarchist ruler gurl"
The two women are on opposite ends of the spectrum, socially, ideologically, politically and mentally
Kuvira:
>Started off as a literal adopted peasant with slight advantages
>Grew up with a set of ethics and beliefs that clashed with the idea of monarchy
>Acts logically* and engages in harsh realpolitik to re-establish order, peace and start rebuilding her nation.
>Trainer her skills at earth/metal bending all her life serving as a soldier and perfected them in combat
>Has to acquire resources, land and men through skilled politics, diplomacy and force
>Pragmatic, strict (but willing to be fair and give chances), mature and logical
She uses violence as a final solution, not a go to option
*The mech thing is a literal end-season asspull
Azula:
>Arrogant and born into royalty
>Disdainful for anyone not royal or elite
>Skills come from being a literal prodigy and being handed training on a platter
>Given anything she wants no matter the expense
>Sadistic, manipulative, unforgiving and narcissistic
Despite a commanding tone and superficial logic, she is very immature in retrospect.
Honestly Azula's obvious mutual disdain for Kuvira would be obvious, as is most plainly seen in how she addresses Long Feng after the coup of Ba Sing Se, asserting that one is born into rule from a ruling class and does not scrabble and fight for power. Similarly, Kuvira's disdain for royalty and it's indolent divine right-to-rule ideology is seen with her attitude to Wu and later Suyin's hypocrisy at Zaofu. Their only similarities is charisma, but whilst Kuvira's is logically sound even if fear-enforced, Azula's is entirely based on enforcing fear of 'the superiors'. Azula is a mad queen (pic 2 related) while Kuvira is a dictatorial leader.
No.9175
>>9149Yeah, the pic is absolutely right about Azula being immature. I thought it was blindingly obvious considering, you know, the finale of the previous season which was about exactly the same thing. Zhao wanted to kill the moon because he thought he was bigger than a force of nature, and his hubris destroyed him. The tides are controlled by the moon. The scene is drawing a direct parallel to Zhao by having Azula disregard the tides.
No.9190
>>9175>The scene is drawing a direct parallel to Zhao by having Azula disregard the tides.Damn that's actually a pretty good comparison.
Azula, the continuator of Zhao's arrogance. The only difference is that Zhao has no control whatsoever, while Azula is more precise.
Also Korra seems to be very much like Zhao as well, ironic for a water-bender. I was actually interested to see his spirit wandering in Korra. One of the few good moments of the show.
No.9207
>>9190It fits the larger themes about the Fire Nation too. Other officers and of course the war itself are comically narcissistic although not inaccurate to their inspirations IRL.
>Also Korra seems to be very much like Zhao as well, ironic for a water-bender. I was actually interested to see his spirit wandering in Korra. One of the few good moments of the show.Korra being a disappointment aside, exploring more stereotype-defying characters was a promising idea. That and the mixing of cultures. The spirit world was probably the lest awful part of the world building and it made me wish the had fleshed out the cosmology more. Even though it's a big part of the plot it's all very vague how it actually works. Pretty wasteful to bring back Iroh and Zhao just to go "hey do you remember them?"
No.9210
>>9207>The spirit world was probably the lest awful part of the world building and it made me wish the had fleshed out the cosmology moreSame. The Avatar Wan 'worldbuilding' made it painful, given how reliant on Asian myths the prior spirit glimpses we saw in ATLA were. The spirit vine rubbish felt like some bad Wapanese hentai made by a weeb.
No.9221
>>9195I WILL EAT YOUR COOCHIE
No.9233
>>9232>JinHonestly though, I hate that Jin and Zuko didn't go anywhere. While I understand the plot reasons of Zuko going with Azula, I honestly wonder how interesting it would be if Azula never entered Ba Sing Se and Zuko lived his life with Jin and Iroh, peacefully.
Zuko and Jin in my opinon would be a great couple due to the fact that she was more kind to Zuko and was a romantic relationship that helped him move on from the sad past he had. This relationship would have been a factor to Zuko not betraying his uncle and maybe not going back to the Fire Nation with Mai which I feel like he was forced to decide yes. This could also prove that Earthbenders and Firebenders can live in Harmony and prevent the Harmony Restoration Movement from ever happening. In someways the relationship would essentially be similar to the "deserter settles down with people of the enemy to live a peaceful life away from war.
However from a writing perspective, to quote a good post,
What I loved about that episode is that it was so life like and real. Sometimes those people pass through your life. They are not meant to stay but they are meant to be profound. Zuko had a one off connection with this girl that he will always remember. He will understand that it was not supposed to be a relationship but a moment to learn from and cherish. I am not upset they did not work out because if the writers took it that direction they would have forced a relationship that was never supposed to be. Their paths crossed for a night. Their trajectories were never going to align. Zuko gave someone something meaningful, he acted selflessly and with love. This happens in real life, we connect with people this way, not often… But when we need it the most.https://carnivorouslreviews.wordpress.com/2019/03/19/zuko-x-jin-and-the-romance-that-could-have-been/ No.9234
>>9233>>9232Speaking of Jin, a common fanon is that Grandma Yin from Korra is in fact Jin.
User MooJin explains;
I always guessed that Jin was around Zuko's age given that they went on a date. Jin's age was never stated nor when she was born, so it's up to the fans to decide how old they think she is. For argument's sake, let's say she is Zuko's age: Zuko was born in 83 AG. When was Yin born? 83 AG. Timeline adds up.
If Jin were to become a grandma at age 91, I could see her looking like Yin, after all people look a lot different when they're older, and the resemblances are there.
It would also make sense for Jin to not care that her child, San, marry someone with ancestry from the fire nation, Naoki, since she herself dated the prince, who would later become Fire Lord. Though not really addressed in the show, I wouldn't be shocked if there was a lot of racism when it came to "mixed" marriages, especially between the Earth Kingdom and Fire Nation, who fought the most during the 100 year war. Have it be from occupied Earth Kingdom citizens not wanting to assimilate with those who invaded, or Fire Nation citizens who might view those of the Earth Kingdom as conquered, and therefore lesser, people.
Never made this connection myself, but I would've really liked it had the show's creators intended this. Unfortunately, I don't think they did. They could've named Yin-Jin, easily, but either they didn't want to or didn't think about it. I assume it's the latter. It would've been a really nice continuity nod to the fans who noticed, and nice to see what happened to Jin. It also wouldn't have affected the overall story or plot, and would've been a nice subplot involving mixed marriages.
No.9252
>>9232Just murder her before you leave lmao. If you have the oppourtunity to stick a knife in her throat and pass it up it's like not killing Hitler.
No.9253
>>9252Killing her would be a task in and of itself given her abilities. Besides her murder would be an equal reason to be chased after.
No.9676
you guys realize that like most of the Gaang are nobles?
No.9679
>>9676>Aang<A literal monk who was only going to get special treatment because "Avatar" and who ends up being the figurehead of what is essentially a terrorist group
>Katara/Sokka<children of a tribal chief. Live literally no different to anyone else in the village, unlike Northern Water Tribe people.
>Toph Bei Fong<blind, coddled child of nobles who abandoned her title and prefers living and working with her hands
>Appa/Momo<literal animals
>Suki<trained warriors of Kyoshi island, who defend their country
>Zuko<banished prince who found no satisfaction in his "honor" and actively helped a coup against his dictator of a father.
Literally only 2 of the members can be called "nobles" and both joined later and are class-traitors. Zuko is the only one who actually became the Fire Lord, with Toph continuing to live how she wanted.
If you're talking about ATLA in general, then yes, they are monarchist in every sense of the word, which reflects the cultural inspirations these countries and peoples were modeled off of and is part of the fantasy setting.
No.9680
Why the fuck are you nerds doing some materialistic examination of a kids show? The show doesn’t accurately simulate how real humans would be in every situation, it’s just a fun show that tells a good story, leave it at that.
No.9691
>>9679so technically speaking, chiefdom seems hereditary, sokka and katara would be south water tribe royals, toph was still born to nobles, zuko never dropped his title, I'm not criticising the show, and most was a hyperbole, but it's still funny when you think about it
No.9699
>>9691True, I'm just pointing out that there are caveats to it. And besides, fantasy tends to go for monarchic states.
>>9680Who are you specifically replying to? We're just having discussion m8.
No.9700
>>9676>>9679>>9691Toph's parents appear to be wealthy merchants not nobles. The Southern Water Tribe seems to have a primitive/clan structure. By the time of Korra they have changed, but by all appearances in ATLA the Southerners are very egalitarian and the role of chief is probably more like being military thing. Hakoda leads the war party and doesn't seem to wield any other kind of power in contrast to how things are up north. Sokka even remarks how Yue wouldn't be interested in him because he's a "peasant." Azula refers to him and Katara as peasants too.
Zuko is the one actual example of nobility, but he's a sort of class traitor who's primarily concerned with stopping an imperialist war machine, so he probably should get a pass.
All bets are off with Korra though.
>>9699ATLA does a god job of representing a variety of political systems though. And it's openly pretty critical of the hierarchical ones. The northern water tribe is socially backward. Earth Kingdoms are full of corruption. The Fire Nation is doing genocide and colonialism. The societies that aren't portrayed with glaring flaws are the most egalitarian or non-hierarchical ones.
>Southern Water Tribe>Air Nomads>Kyoshi Island>Foggy Swamp Tribe>random earth kingdom villages No.9704
>>9700so is atla anarcho-pilled
No.9705
>>9704None of them are explicitly or implicitly anarchist, just that they appear to be fairly egalitarian and whatever hierarchy exists is not prominently displayed. Given the Zaheer plot it's probably safe to say if there's an anarcho tendency in the show it's accidental.
No.9709
>>9704Why is it always about the anarchsits for you peeps?
>>9700>TophIn the episode where they go to Ba Sing Se, Toph's family name was enough to get her to a party with the Earth King, as she was recognized as a noble in status.
>All bets are off with KorraBased
No.9712
>>9709I checked the wiki and you are correct. The Beifongs are nobility, although apparently they are bankers which suggests maybe they got there from accumulating wealth as merchants. I remember the show always emphasized their wealth more than any political authority so that's why I didn't think they were nobles. Pretty dumb in retrospect since the flying boar is established as their house sigil.
No.9714
>>9705>>9709it's a joke, atla doesn't like things being too heirarchical, anarchists don't like hierarchy, thus atla = anarchist
No.9749
>>9715Her dad Tonraq is chief of the Southern Water Tribe but it's ambiguous if this position involves a separate class from normal people. It didn't appear to with Katara and Sokka being described as peasants even though their dad Hakoda was chief. Even Hakoda seemed to be chief as a function of being a good leader vs having any official authority. Nobody treats Korra like nobility that I can recall other than maybe Unalaq as a ploy. Tonraq
was nobility in the North (first son of the Chief and heir to the title) but he was disgraced and banished. Considering that he became Chief in the South as an immigrant banished from the north implies the southerners don't care about class or even citizenship.
IIRC some characters referred to Hakoda specifically as "war chief" which in some cultures that inspired the Water Tribes is not so much the leader of the tribe as a whole but a position relevant only to battle. Sometimes there is no actual chief (maybe some elders who are respected), and sometimes there's a separate authority figure who handles internal affairs. There's a lot of variation here. I don't think Hakoda ever acts in a regular political capacity in the South but Tonraq consults with other members of the tribe to decide policy. I think it's only relevant to the civil war though.
Her being Avatar is probably more significant since everyone respects the position.
No.10000
>>8953So Kuvira is a left social-nationalist? Like the Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party (Syria branch), PSUV (Venezuela), ZANU-PF (Zimbabwe), FSLN (Nicaragua) etc?
No.10002
>>10000Kuvira explicltly does ethnic cleansing, do any of the parties you mentioned also do ethnic cleansing?
No.10003
>>10002>Kuvira explicltly does ethnic cleansingWait what? Who did she genocide? I watched Korra a long while ago
No.10004
>>10002>>10003No, she isn't. There isn't a single actual scene of her going through with "Ethnic Cleansing" or any other such rubbish. It was a claim made by her direct opponents (Suyin Bei Fong and her cronies).
>>10000Roughly speaking yes, though in many ways I'd also place it as similar to the USSR, which is what is argued in prior Kuvira posts
>>2889 >>2888
No.10121
>>9087>>9074>>9077 On the topic of metal bending and the Suyin fight:
https://gfycat.com/aggravatingimpeccablefruitfly This demonstrates that Kuvira can turn metal into sharp blades, which could potentially allow for the possibility of liquification of metal.
To liquefy metal the bender will have to a lavabender as well. Metals melting points can go to extreme degrees. A bender needs to move the molecules in particles in the metal at ridiculous speeds.
The second way would be the Yun method of liquefying earth.
https://old.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/iqrwfg/respect_kuvira_the_legend_of_korra/ No.10149
>>9074Korra's character arc is basically that she is complete shit at being the avatar because everything about her personality and skills are completely wrong for it. IDK what the the fuck they thought they were doing with this other than sUbVeRtiNg eXpEcTaTiOnS. Aang was good at being avatar so Korra has to suck or something.
But then instead of trying to git gud at her job she just does her own thing and instead of restoring balance she completely changes several things.
>merges physical and spirit world>restores airbending>leads to reformation of Earth Kingdom into Earth Democracy or something>creates a third spirit portal (to where though? didn't the spirit world merge with the physical world?) No.10176
>>9705Remember the Zaheer plot didn't have Ehasz so that can explain a big shift in how things are presented.
As this guy thorough explains that Brian and Michael don't understand political ideologies which makes me thinking Ehasz was the one keeping everything together in atla.
No.10239
>>10177>>10176>As this guy thorough explains that Brian and Michael don't understand political ideologies which makes me thinking Ehasz was the one keeping everything together in atla.Good point. Maybe Ehasz also had the wisdom to not make the show so overtly about politics the way Korra fumbled with.
No.10363
one of the fun facts about Avatar TLA is that Azula is actually like fucking 13 in the show, which is funny because I think most of the other people who watched the show thought that she was Zuko's older sister. I am p sure that was kinda deliberate, coupled with Azula's personality disorders and the like she has been groomed to really try and break herself down and build herself up into whatever position needs filling in the royal family, and in Zuko's absence she became the heir apparent to the fire lord's throne and tries to be fairly adult even though she is still a child, and fairly obviously one at that when you realize a lot of her immaturity. hell, her intro is literally her telling her crew under her command to ignore the tides despite the fact it poses a very direct danger to her as much as her own men, something that she doesn't really register, saying instead that her crew should "fear me more than the tides", but does she think the fucking tides fear her??? She also demonstrates hilarious impatience, even at minor imperfection, and generally lacks emotional stability, though she knowingly compensates this by trying to emotionally manipulate others. Though you can argue these things can be as much personality disorders as they can be from being an unexperienced child, in reality I think a big message the show is giving off is that even though Azula was the homeborn prodigy, gifted at birth and schooled within the institutions of the fire nation to produce a wholly insular view of perfection, Zuko in contrast learns from the land and the different people and cultures he meets, creating a more wholistic and complete understanding of the world, and in turn firebending's place within it, and in turn elevates himself from a naturally lackluster firebender into one that can demonstrably defeat Azula.
Its showing that Zuko's emotional maturity and experience is what allowed him to elevate his own powers, that understanding of the world gave him the depth of experience that allowed for him to improve his own skills, rather than azula who spent her time only honing the skills she already mastered, and in turn really never improving much beyond her natural talents. Immaturity - the rejection of outside lessons and ideas in favor of insular and self-centered understanding of the world, was what made her stagnate while her lame duck brother rose above her, and she could never really accept that fact - she had always prided herself on that natural talent, cherished it like it was a birthrite and mandate, and saw it as the means and really an ends to building her own power. But, that immaturity was not something that would outwardly help her, so she did a lot to cover it up, makeup and big worded speeches and acting authoritatively even in conditions she didn't really understand, like when she commanded her fucking boat to go against the tides, which is of course a child's approximation of what maturity was.
But Azula wasn't like, totally without redeeming moments. Though she is a frigid fucking bitch, I think at the end of the day she still had a lot of value built up in Zuko, in the same capacity as Zuko was a way for her to build up her self-esteem for her natural talents, but also that Zuko was the only real link between her and her mother (mind, Azula thought her mother hated her because she tried to emulate her father more, and he was a cruel asshole that her mom was always disapproving of, but she was especially disapproving when Azula tried to copy him), Zuko was a kind of surrogate maternal care to her since Zuko did take more from her mom in being compassionate and caring for the people around and under him (even going out of his way and nearly risking his own life to save one of his crewmen even if it meant the Avatar escaping), which would extent to Azula, while not being as immensely disapproving of Azula's actions as her own mother was (Zuko even tries to emulate Azula a little bit sometimes).
This is why I like that specific scene from the show - its like the literal only time I think Azula is ever seen without her makeup. It was a scene where Azula, normally a fucking frigid bag of dicks, talks to Zuko about the political danger of meeting with Iroh in jail - something that, if she instead exposed to everyone else, would gain her much in the way of power since it would delegitimize Zuko - but instead she warns him, without any makeup, any façade of being an adult. I think to Azula, Zuko was pretty much the only person she could be comfortable with being around without having the big show of being the adult woman preparing to be the queen, though by this point she probably has a case of wearing the mask so much that it was becoming her face, and that the facade was slowly poisoning her own personality. But, still, its like the only real moment where there is a willing vulnerability shown by Azula.
And like, you have to really think about the dynamic of the moment, the actions of Azula relative to what she usually says and does and appears, how her family live would relate to her personal growth, and a bunch of other stuff to kinda realize it. Its a subtle way to convey a lot of depth about an entirely fictional character that shows a lot of implied character development without needing to cut away to a flashback - and its not actually even in service to the story or anything, its all just a really neat background detail you can pick out if you make those connections.
No.10364
also the fire lord after zuko was a fire mommy milf change my mind
No.10365
>>10363How the fuck is azula 13? She looks 20.
No.10366
>>10365Being insane can age you a lot. Or so I’ve heard.
No.10368
>>10363>I think most of the other people who watched the show thought that she was Zuko's older sisterThis is the first time I am learning this isn't true. According to the wiki Zuko was 16 and Azula 14 at the time of A:TLA.
>she had always prided herself on that natural talent, cherished it like it was a birthrite and mandateThis is actually a really interesting parallel between the whole divine right ideology and present day "gifted" kids who tend to have the same kind of problem.
>This is why I like that specific scene from the show - its like the literal only time I think Azula is ever seen without her makeup.I think you're right, and it's funny how jarring it is. It's also not just about her being adult or being vulnerable - the lack of makeup makes her look more like Zuko too. The show's relationship with makeup is actually pretty interesting. It comes up multiple times, sometimes explicitly, like in Tales of Ba Sing Se when Katara and Toph get a makeover. The other cool example was from early in book 1 where we have a parallel between the Kyoshi makeup and the water tribe makeup highlighting the pretty arbitrary difference between masculine and feminine signifiers. It also establishes makeup as a motif associated with power.
>>10366Emotionally maybe, but it doesn't cause puberty to happen faster. I have known 14 year olds (male and female) who looked like adults though so it's not that unusual. Also IIRC people matured faster in the old days.
No.10369
>>5879>>5876>sexualizing minorsKill yourselves, degenerates.
No.10371
>>10369no, is ok, cuties proved that CP is legal now
No.10375
>>10368>the lack of makeup makes her look more like Zuko tooSpeaking of, it's fairly obvious, however the whole inability to groom herself properly prior to her Coronation as Fire Lord and the subsequent face off with Zuko was fairly symbolic of how she was deranged and losing control (pic related).
Also I keep forgetting she was so young. I thought she was Zukos age and keep forgetting she's not.
>>10363 Nice effort post
>does she think the fucking tides fear her?This made me laugh. Also related to pic 2 from
>>9149 >only time I think Azula is ever seen without her makeup Yeah this and some other smaller moments where she shows hurt feelings (for a moment) really demonstrate her humanity
>>10369>>10371Top kek
>>10364I mean we saw that idea already
>>2811Also Izumi sounds REALLY Japanese a name. It's a few letters away from Izanami or Izanagi or Izuku
>>10177 Already posted
>>4949 No.10394
>>10368Another example of the makeup motif is the painted lady.
>>10375>the whole inability to groom herself properly prior to her Coronation as Fire Lord and the subsequent face off with Zuko was fairly symbolic of how she was deranged and losing control (pic related). It also makes logical sense because as a princess she had attendants to groom her (as we see when she fires them out of paranoia). It works both symbolically and literally as a case of reality ensuing. I think the people who say it's a cheesy part of her breakdown are unable to relate to her as a noble who's not used to doing these things for herself.
No.10395
>>10368>According to the wiki Zuko was 16 and Azula 14cut me some slack I was one year off lmao
No.10396
>>10363 (me)
something I also thought was cool was how the show not only had Aang experience the four elements in relation to being the Avatar, but also had the co-protagonist Zuko experience the four elements in much the same way. obviously in the capacity in which he is chasing Aang who, bar the first season, spends most of his time trying to figure out how to do the bending of that element in the respective lands of said element, but also in more interpersonal relationships he forms throughout the show, and through the places he goes. Of course he fights with, beats, occasionally gets humbled by, befriends, betrays, and then reconnects and makes up for it with Katara, which is a subplot of the show with so much nuance you could really make up its own effort post on it, but also through interactions he has with the Northern Water tribe and his actions in contrast to Zhao (though granted, pretty much guided by Iroh) where he learns a lot about the spiritual aspects of balance in the world and even shows fairly unexpected mercy in trying to save Zhao, who had done nothing but fuck him over and attempt to kill him and his own crew. Of course he expands on this learning in chapter 2 more when they are on the run, and Iroh tries to expand on the necessity for not only inner balance, but the importance of understanding other elements in order to bend your own element well in lightning-bending. Lightning-bending is not something that is strictly inherent to fire-bending, at least to the cultural conception of it by the fire nation. It instead relies on a personal balance of the self and fluid movements of the body to channel things which is much more in the vein of waterbending - literally showing the ability to take the aspects of another culture (arguably two since the N and S water tribes are hella different but thats a digression) and translate those principles into something usable in fire-bending. Of course season 2 is also where Zuko learns a fuckload about earthbending. "But anon", I hear you shout, "Zuko doesn't fuck around with earthbenders much!" And you are partially right in that, but mind something Toph remarks to Aang early on during his training. How earthbending is reliant largely on stance and stability, using those as the basis for your form to move and shape the earth. And, of course, season 2 Zuko is on the run as a fugitive of the fire nation, he cannot firebend. So what does he primarily use to fight? Dual sabers, and of course sabers rely on a form of martial artistry which focuses around stability and stance as the basis for a fluid form of attacking. So, he experiences much the same principles of Earthbending through his use of swords, all while also being in the Earth kingdom itself. And of course he has a relationship with Jin, lives a long while in Ba Sing Se, generally absorbs the culture and how the fire nation's war has changed society for them, so on. Though its nothing as apparent as lightning-redirecting powers, I would say that both the principles of earthbending he kinda learned through swordsmanship and the cultural learning he had from the Earth Kingdom was pivotal in reshaping his idea of not only firebending, but also the fire nation's place in the world as a power. And, of course, airbending came in when he became the fire-mentor for Aang and the show is even more direct about that aspect than the fucking lightning redirection so I'll not waste your time with the specifics of that.
That ultimately is what I meant by Zuko learning and growing from his experiences and giving his firebending the strength that finally outplayed Azula. While he likely did just become a better firebender overall through constant practice, he as well learned different ways to apply firebending through the inspection of other elements and how they functioned to form a more holistic understanding of the elements.
No.10398
You guise make Avatar sound so cool and interesting but all I remember when watching some episodes was teen melodrama and fairly average action scenes where no one ever gets hurt or dies.
No.10402
>>10396Not just Zuko and Aang either. Katara and Sokka learn from the different elements and nations. Obviously with Sokka it's non-bending but he picks up fighting styles and technology from all over the place. Katara ends up borrowing principles from other bending styles too, see pics.
The kids being so high level makes more sense than people realize, because like he avatar they combine and synthesize the bending styles and can use techniques that nobody else would imagine. Almost all of the people in the setting are insular enough that they only know their own style and the style of the people they're usually fighting. Meanwhile Aang usually stomps even with just air because nobody alive (except Bumi) has even seen an airbender much less fought one. It's fairly subtle but a clear argument in favor of cultural exchange.
No.10405
>>10398All the choreography was meticulously based on actual martial arts forms and animated beautifully without excessive (or lack) of detail. The characters behaved like real people.
>no one ever gets hurtPhysically yeah, little hurt outside of Katara's hand-burns, Zuko's facial scarring and Aang's back scar from lightning (and Jet's offscreen death).
This is because it was a kids cartoon and thus was PG. I agree some Naruto-tier blood and burns would probably have helped in impact, but that's not a necessity for it to be impactful.
>>10396In a way Iroh is essentially an Avatar without the ability to use the other 3 elements (pic related). While Aang is functionally the Avatar and learns each bending style, Iroh embodies the spirit and concept of the Avatar with his statements about balance
>>10394Another good point about the Make-up, nice.
>>10402>fairly subtle but a clear argument in favor of cultural exchange This reminds me of one dude on twitter who pointed out that 'Cultural Appropriation' was largely stupid because Culture was meant to be shared with people.
No.10410
>>10405>'Cultural Appropriation' was largely stupid because Culture was meant to be shared with people.It depends. One of the comics actually addresses the topic when other people start copying Aang's tattoos and he's offended. In the actual show you see this a bit when the Mechanist is damaging the air temple. Aang's happy to share air nomad culture in general, like the ideas, food and temples, but he's also protective of his culture being diluted or damaged.
No.10720
IDK what to think about Bryke departing the Netflix reboot. I expect the Netflix version to be dogshit for various reasons, but given how Korra went I wonder if it's for better or worse that they left the project.
>>17110
This isn't 8chan. The whole site is left wing. There's no place to put a retarded /pol/ colony.
No.10758
>>10720>There's no place to put a retarded /pol/ colonyLet me repeat: I am the OP of this thread and have contributed ~25 posts in this thread, of which the majority have been large, effort/discussion posts. Nowhere in this thread do you see "hurr muh jewish Bryke lol" or other rubbish.
I AM NOT /pol/ nor have I ever been. E;R may be a /pol/fag and do some dumb jew jokes, but none of it is ever unironic. It's all memes that are never taken seriously, and the fact that people are still mad over it is pathetic, when his commentary on the series is accurate and fairly decent.
/hobby/ is a board where politics are second-fiddle to media and its discussion. That's why we can have hot takes like "Palapatine is 'le epic comrade'" because everyone except brainless prudes understand that we're not serious about it, and that its just chatting about a character and some interesting thoughts. Nobody here thinks of this stuff unironically. Nobody is using Harry Potter or LOTR or Star Wars in utter real political context. FFS a major discussion in this thread is that Korra attempts to insert Real World Politics into a show with utterly different societal development, but I digress.
E;R has never made an unironic 'le jew conspiracy' post in his videos. His closest are semi-sarcastic parts about how Rebecca Sugar and JJ Abrams are jews but he never expands on this and it is such a fleeting moment as to be less than 1% of the content in his reviews.
So cool your jets, put aside your ideological fervor and just enjoy something for what it is; stop taking things seriously.
Finally, for the record, the community (/leftypol/) makes plenty of politically incorrect jokes, including about jews and minorities (you only have to look at the 'uighur' wordfilter as an example). We aren't reddit nor should be. You are more than welcome to sit around with your nose in the air and feel super ideological pure, but keep it to yourself or at least make actually legitimate arguments and not dismissive non-arguments like "muh E;R, ignored!!!"
>inb4 'others have said the same without le /pol/'Other than Lily Orchard, NOBODY - at the time of posting the video links in the first posts - had made the same extensive breakdown of Korra than E;R. Everyone else was busy doubling back on themselves every 5 minutes to keep rabid fangirls from reeeing in the comments about "how dare you insult 'yas queen slay' Korra". Some other people have made good analyses of Korra since the post was made, but they were not available at the time of posting, or were unknown.
Rant End, now lets NOT argue more about pointless bullshit and post links from ~9 months ago.
No.10760
>>10410You make a good point.
>when other people start copying Aang's tattoos and he's offendedwhich is A) Why I said "largely" stupid
and B) a bit out of character. Aang, over the series really matured even while retaining his pacifism. He would be more likely to go and explain the full meaning of the markings and why it isn't a good idea to wear them while not a full Air Nomad monk, than get mad over it.
>the Mechanist is damaging the air temple True, but they do it much better than the comics, by demonstrating that while he appreciated their designs and culture, they were, as far as known, extinct and the refugees that made up his group needed improved living and that meant sacrificing some art. It was happenstance that Aang survived and arrived there during construction. In a way it is similar to how the USSR sometimes tore down historical buildings like churches to make way for homes and better city planning.
No.11847
>>11845you give the comics too little credit, the fire nation and earth kingdom very nearly go into war v2 over the conquered territories of the earth kingdom, zuko over protecting both his people and the inter-racial children who developed a fire nation identity and the earth kingdom over their lost land. its basically only avoided by becoming a dual administrative region with some regional determination which eventually evolves into the republic city we see in korra.
No.11866
>>10758I remember there being a post on some website where E;R claimed the best way to convert normalfags to being a neonazi is to just make jokes and then at some point drop your jokes or some shit.
I wonder how well that actually goes though.
No.11874
>>10758>E;R may be a /pol/fag and do some dumb jew jokes, but none of it is ever unironic.I invoke death of the author tbh.
>>11866Probably the biggest hurdle for neonazis to cross is desensitizing people to the idea and memes do that pretty alright I guess.
>>11845Honestly the Fire Nation wasn't developed well enough to say how things would go. It didn't seem like any of the soldiers were particularly motivated by hate or some other animus. The war had been going on for almost all living memory, so it's not a stretch that the common people or military would be ok with the war ending. I mean, all of them had grown up counting war casualties.
>the fire nation will not have to pay ANY dues for what they did, your King and the "hero" the avatar is totally compliant with this.They don't get into the terms of surrender or anything like that because the show isn't about the mechanics of power that way.
No.13634
alright so question, why would the fire nation develop faster than any other nation, from a materialist standpoint? they are a volcanic island nation which historically means that they would have less landmass for food production which means a weaker division of labor, they are isolated from the mainland so they get less in the way of technological innovation from overseas, and their disjointed islands setup would mean they also have less technological spread even in their own country.
from a bending perspective, fire and air bending are the 2 most available, since you can do either in nearly any environment, unlike earth or water which needs raw material around to do so. however, water-bending could easily be used to create powerful water turbines which could generate power and allow for a theoretical water tribe industrial revolution, and earthbending has the ability to track and unearth great quantities of ore and coal to process manually as well as the ability to basically mass-produce housing even pre-industrialy. between all of them I would frankly expect the earth kingdom to be the first to reach the industrial revolution because they could most easily modify the land to create conditions where food could be produced plentifully enough that they could build up a strong division of labor, and from there rush towards an industrial revolution without bending.
No.13635
some good takes from Tumblr
https://old-and-new-friends.tumblr.com/post/190905718041/the-atla-fandom-is-such-a-good-study-of-the
> the atla fandom is such a good study of the effectiveness of imperialist propaganda in that so many fans have completely internalized the idea that air nomad culture is hippy dippy weakness that would actually have no real substantive place in the avatarverse, and you can see this in the number of post-finale fics (well written, amazingly intricate, incredibly well plotted fics!) intent on teaching aang a lesson about the futility of pacificism or cutting him down to size after his victory against ozai, driven by a belief that aang somehow had it easy or that his choices were childish and unrealistic. the idea that serious commitment to a buddhist-inspired philosophy could influence a hero’s actions is so far beyond the grasp of so many fans that you can sense their downright anger, even outrage, that such a philosophy was upheld as worth defending! the idea that aang as a hero was making deeply spiritual choices about how to end the war - and thereby upholding his duty as the the spiritual guide to the world - and that he deemed air nomad religious values worth upholding against the might of an imperialist nation, just completely eludes so many people. because it’s not flashy and badass and powerful i guess? idk idk idk but some of y’all are soooooo invested in loving the fire nation and discounting aang/ the air nomads in specific insidious ways and it’s…whew. frustrating, predicable, kinda scary.—-
> Yeah It’d be great if people in general could learn the difference between being weak and being pacifistic.
> A weak person physically can’t harm anyone. A pacifist can harm you but chooses not to. Aang almost killed Ozai in the Avatar State but he didn’t, not because he was too weak to kill Ozai (he was literally just about to do so) but because he felt it wasn’t the right thing to do.
> Aang isn’t the only one to do this. Zuko could have killed Ozai during the eclipse if he’d aimed his lightning at his father instead of away. Katara did it with Yon Rha where she had the perfect opportunity to kill her mother’s murderer but didn’t.
> Why does Aang get all the flack for doing the same? Because his reasoning was different?
> Some people are a bit too invested in a 12 year old murdering someone. No.13650
>>13634>why would the fire nation develop faster than any other nation, from a materialist standpoint?Power, like in the physical sense. They can create fire out of thin air, which means they are able to heat things up more effectively. It's the same kind of benefit as having oil. Other benders can only move things around. Firebenders can create energy. They're insanely OP in that respect, even though fire has other limitations that make up for it in most (small scale contexts). Fire can't be used to build anything, and it just doesn't work underwater (unlike airbending which can make bubbles) or if it's too cold for the bender. It's also dangerous in ways that the others aren't. IMO the show did a great job making the elements balanced in a general sense but also giving them massive strengths and weaknesses that shape the whole society.
>water-bending could easily be used to create powerful water turbinesProblem is this is both unintuitive and inefficient. You need people to continuously power these turbines, when in reality you only set up such a thing at a natural source of water. They might be able to reshape rivers to this end, but just having people run the turbines is the same kind of thing as generating power by people riding bicycles. Also for it to scale at all you need to discover electricity.
>and earthbending has the ability to track and unearth great quantities of ore and coalOnly Toph is shown at first to have the tremorsense abilities, although earthbending obviously makes mining easier. Just because you have the resources doesn't mean you have the technology to work them, though. Prior to the development of ironworking, iron was not seen as particularly useful. It's too hard to work without sufficient heat, and usually full of impurities. Without the ability to metalbend, it's probably just not worth the effort for an earthbending culture to figure out advanced metallurgy since they can just send earthbenders into combat, and their "weapon" is just sitting around everywhere. It's sort of like mining asteroids to us. Sure it's possible in theory and it would be very useful, but the difficulty of it compared to the much easier alternatives means there's little incentive to try it.
>as well as the ability to basically mass-produce housing even pre-industrialy.Waterbenders can also produce housing in the snow. Earthbenders being able to build things works as an explanation for why they are the largest and most populous nation (and it would help for digging canals for irrigation), but this doesn't get you far if your tech level is still pre-industrial and your economy is mostly subsistence agriculture.
>between all of them I would frankly expect the earth kingdom to be the first to reach the industrial revolution because they could most easily modify the land to create conditions where food could be produced plentifully enough that they could build up a strong division of laborBut why bother dividing labor if you can just keep expanding and finding new land to use and keep building houses perpetually? Based on what we see in the series, most of the land is wild. That means the Earth Kingdoms can just keep growing and following the same economic and political model. Given that they seem to be a bunch of mostly independent kingdoms loosely connected culturally, there's nothing pushing them to adapt to urbanization and a higher population density. The exception is Ba Sing Se, and they
are relatively advanced. But they also seem to be fully self-sufficient and not engage in very much trade. As we see when the Gaang first arrives, the concentric rings show the division of labor, but because of the isolation (and perceived safety from the Fire Nation) there's nothing pressuring them to advance. The walls if anything provide a security that means they have less material reason to develop weapons technology. The kind of bureaucratic palace economy they have seems to involve less free trading (actually demonstrated in-show when the Cabbage Merchant has his cart smashed at customs), which also means that it's harder for the merchant class to emerge as a power and drive industrialization.
>>13635>not flashy and badass and powerful i guess?It's definitely not that lol. They go out of their way to make Aang's spirituality flashy and badass and powerful. This author is making it about imperialism which isn't
wrong but that's not the whole picture. Aang's views (and most of the show) is very obviously inspired by eastern philosophy and Buddhism, and the primary audience in the west are either actual Christians or at least have their worldview massively shaped by Christian values and philosophy, which is extremely incompatible with the kind of ideas in the show. Most of the audience grew up believing in the importance of cosmic hierarchies and military power. The Fire Nation is BY FAR the most familiar to western (US especially) audiences. And not just with their political structure and the obvious pledge of allegiance gag, but the whole premise of the war. Not just the fact that it's imperialism, but the justification given too - Sozin pitches the war to Roku as a very on the nose combination of manifest destiny and Bush-era nation building. He all but says they're going to "spread freedom." Paraphrasing, he said it's the Fire Nation's destiny to share their greatness with the rest of the world. On a subconscious level, the primary audience of the show has been primed to see the Fire Nation as sympathetic.
> Why does Aang get all the flack for doing the same? Because his reasoning was different?IDK maybe it has something to do with the fact that Aang actually stuck to his principles from the start and all the others not killing was a choice they made in the moment. Zuko wasn't sure what he was going to do with Ozai and Katara was fully intending to merc Yon Rha. They both decided against it in the middle of a potentially killing blow. Aang was never going to do it, so him pulling back doesn't sUbVeRt ExPeCTaTiOnS and narratively it's kind of blue-balling or something.
No.13655
>>13635I explained why there is focus on killing by Aang in my posts about the Lion Turtle Deus Ex Machina; They specifically focus on his dilemma of violating his principles of pacifism, and then just give him the ability to make a choice with an asspulled new ability, which isn't something uncommon, but still feels like a bit of a cop-out. This is in the same tier as Goku going Super Saiyan against Frieza, except unlike Energy Bending, that was talked about at length over the Namek Arc, while Energy Bending isn't even mentioned until the final couple episodes, thus we get a feeling of a copout
>>2756 >>2810 >>2816 >>2817 >>2822Additionally, his Avatar State against Ozai was an accidental unlock. A literal plot-device rock hit him in his lightning scar… why didn't toph's massage do that when she pounded his entire back with rocks? Plot. Why was the rock specifically in that spot to hit him? Plot. It's a bullshit move for an otherwise awesome scene.
Finally there is a saying; Pacifism is a coward patting themselves on the back.
It's one thing to be against violence or harm and thus seeking other methods, that is being a gentle soul. But outright refusing to fight seriously and be ready to kill because you're against it and refuse to budge is pathetic negligence. Making the hard decisions and dealing with them is the consequence of having power and leadership, and if you don't you are jeopardizing the lives of everyone behind you.
No.14082
here is a decent video about the ending of avatar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip1xe7JFb-gI guess we might see a resurgence of Avatar stuff with the netflix release of the series
No.14125
>>13650> Aang was never going to do it, so him pulling back doesn't sUbVeRt ExPeCTaTiOnS and narratively it's kind of blue-balling or something.How so?
I actually like the way they did Aang’s ultimate refusal to kill Ozai, it reminded me of Luke’s refusal to kill Vader. Both flew into a blind rage and nearly killed the opponent, however they both realized before the final blow that killing
really is a choice and each choose not to. Both Luke and Aang are told to follow a destiny but chose their own instead. I like how it goes down with Aang somewhat more, honestly, since the Avatar State actually DOES mind control people and thus Aang’s refusal to kill had to be strong enough to overpower the combined wills of all avatars that came before him.
No.14387
>>14082Guess we are going to see a resurgence in Avatar.
https://ew.com/tv/nickelodeon-expanding-avatar-the-last-airbender-animated-film/<Nickelodeon is launching Avatar Studios, a new division to create original content spanning animated series and movies based on the world of Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra, the network announced Wednesday during ViacomCBS' Investor Day presentation. Original creators and executive producers Michael DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko will lead the studio as co-chief creative officers.<The first project is already lined up: an animated theatrical film set to begin production this year.Nick must have been seeing those Netflix numbers and realized what they were sitting on.
No.18902
>>9679>>5876>>5879>>6405>>5837 >loliyeah, you really should /get/out
No.19398
>>18913I… I don't know… could be the same Username?
No.19400
>>2888>2nd picWhen I watched the first season the second time it became pretty obvious they originally planned Asami to be a twist villain.
>>3719>Season 2's initial Civil War plot was an excellentWhat I hate most about LoK is the wasted potential. You can see they were starting to get into really rich material that could have surpassed TLA but they moved away from that for some reason (lack of confidence?)
>AmonThere were all sorts of things they could have done with him but making him a hypocrite was about the dumbest option. Advanced chi blocking would have been a much more interesting direction. They wanted to do a thing about Aang de-bending someone and the unintended consequences, but they should have picked a different plot for that.
>Toph, Lin, Tenzin, etcYeah they kept adding characters and not knowing what to do with them and their solution was to add more characters they also didn't know what to do with. Probably one of the strongest examples of losing Aaron Ehasz as the lead writer fucking with their ability to write the story.
>So that's just about it… half a season, 2 villains before they were flanderized at the end of their respective arcs, and 3 wise, stoic, gruff characters who were denigrated to serve Korra by the plot and writers.It was originally going to just be that first half of the season but during the project Nick asked for more. The reason everything ended up flanderized is the characters weren't conceived with four full seasons in mind.
No.19401
>>19398>could be the same Username?it links to the same user
No.19402
>>19401>>19398LOL… well Lily Orchard did do a lot of MLP vids so I guess he did make that. Still, their Korra video is excellent.
No.19426
>>19402>>18913Ok, she still a horsefucker tho
No.19723
>>19426Eh, not my problem if they pull a Mr.Hands
No.19727
>>19722 >The fire nation did have factories and combustion engines <conquering army seeking to unite and bring Fire Nation culture to the nationsFire Nation was starting to become an industrial society and thus began the process of primitive capital accumulation - colonization and imperialism.
As obvious in Korra, Bryke aren't communist (pretty anti-communist liberals actually) but the beauty of materialism is that it’s so self-evidently true that artists often depict it without realizing they are.
No.19732
>>9680>The show doesn’t accurately simulate how real humans would be in every situationBut it does simulate them accurately in important situations and involves or goes into the socio-economic ramifications of
A) having elemental magic
B) fighting a long term conflict
C) an imperialist industrial state
No.19759
In the fifth episode of Book Two: Earth of ATLA, named "Avatar Day", Aang gets put on trial for the 'crime' of Avatar Kyoshi - killing Chin the Conqueror - and sits in prison of his own will to try and make peace with this multi-lifetime feud. The episode is a fun one, even if it is a bit fillerish; letting Sokka shine, give Kyoshi badass history and and an interesting idea of Avatar being a force of balance, not necessarily pleasing everyone.
https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Avatar_Day But I digress; I recently had the chance to see episode clips from various animated series I liked, particularly Naruto and ATLA. Rewatching clips from the 4th War arc I listened to Episode 261 of Naruto Shippuden, and Gaara's speech right before the United Shinobi Forces set out to fight.
http://frostwhisper2012.blogspot.com/2012/10/gaaras-war-speech.html https://archive.ph/tl0hY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmgv2XbIiHw The speech is honestly excellent, displaying some of the best of Naruto's story-telling, and the final statement of Gaara made me think about something in relation to the Avatar. Gaara, Kazekage or not, is only 17 years old… he has died before, lived a short and traumatic life and only recently begun to live life and not just exist. And yet he is prepared to put his life on the line to ensure the unity of the Alliance. Aang is younger and missed 100 years of imperialist conflict, he is a reincarnating person, but each reincarnation is a unique person and dying means they end up being astral spirits not able to really live life.
Among the ways Aang could have gotten out of 'prison' is to promise his life as a payment in blood for his past life's "crime" BUT only after he beats the Fire Nation.
Given the context of Chin's death this doesn't quite work s I initially thought, but it could have worked in a situation similar to the final battle against the Fire Nation (such as at the Steam Prison) calling for exploited proletarian/peasant Fire Nation people to overthrow their tyrannical leader and that if anyone had personal qualms with the Avatar, he'd face them after the war was ended.
>Fight with me and after this war is finally over, if any of you still hate me, you can have this life of mine. Of course this isn't the best that it could be, but it would have fit ATLA.
No.19775
>>19727>>19722The Fire Nation required raw materials for industrial expansion, land for its growing population, and luxury materials for sale in Fire Nation markets.
The showrunners (Bryke) mostly did some worldbuilding and got good talent on this show. When they took the writing helm in Korra it really showed that they needed someone else in that role. The head writer for ATLA, Aaron Ehasz, apparently slipped a /pol/ meme ("magic dirt") into his own show (Dragon Prince), so he's probably not left wing either. IDK who but somebody on the team definitely had some lefty sympathies to a degree though, because the Fire Nation parts of the story have a fair bit of satire against the US (most obviously when Aang goes to the school there and they do burger school shit like the Fire Nation pledge of allegiance). This also mirrors Imperial Japan in the first half of the 20th Century.
>the beauty of materialism is that it’s so self-evidently true that artists often depict it without realizing they are. Indeed it's pretty self-evident and the show definitely does a lot of homework trying to make the worldbuilding make sense materially, like how waterbenders naturally end up living on ice caps or swamps because they are literally in their element there. People settle in advantageous places, and their societies are structured in a way that accounts for bending.
No.19776
>>19775>magic dirtwhat is the /pol/ meme? is there a clip for context in the Dragon Prince show.
No.19777
>>19776It's a somewhat obscure one. Found out about it from somebody posting a stonetoss comic and nobody getting the joke. Basically it's an attempt at satire against liberals who are ok with immigration and assimilation. The rightoids think that libs believe in "magic dirt" i.e. that just by crossing the border and walking on the soil in a new country the immigrants "become" people of that country. Pic related.
Here's the clip from the show where it comes up. I should point out that this scene happens immediately after the characters (illegally) cross the border into the elf country.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qupXlpq73A No.19781
>>19777>>19775>>19778Also when I saw that I rewound to check and the episode's writer credit is Aaron Ehasz.
No.19782
>>19781>>19778>>19777Speaking of Dragon Prince, someone did a scientific theory on the reason for this magic dirt
https://archive.ph/hGtPX No.19783
>>19782Doesn't the magic just come from living things? Dirt is full of microbes and fungus and all that stuff.
No.19899
>>19897ew
I'm not interested in the ao3 shit fan-fics anon
No.19901
>>19899Oh relax your potatoes anon.
No.19902
>>19901Nah, then stop showing me shit
No.19903
>>19902Stop being a faggot first.
No.19905
>>19903you made the post int first place, so you were the first.
No.19910
>>19909M8 you already have a whole 500+ post Korra porn thread in /siberia/
No.19916
>>19910and it's more based then this garbage
>>19897 No.19918
>>19916>X porn is better than X smutAmazing logic
>>19909 This is honestly a depiction of Korra that is top-tier, a total Bro tomboy that is both hot but you can also be relaxed and chill with. If only the show had sticked to this aesthetic.
Also Aeoleus has some good stylization.
No.19927
>>19918>Amazing logic yes, because strong tomboy is better then bitch ass kid
LOK has better lewds
No.19967
>>19927>strong tomboy is better then bitch ass kid??? You do realize Tomboy is not based on age but behavior, yes? TOPH is a tomboy.
>LOK has better lewds I'd hope so given that the characters in the original series are 12-15 and not 17-19 young adults.
A Repetar: The series [LOK] sucked objectively, Korra is a bombshell though, and the series had some good ideas and potential that Bryke squandered on liberal idpol and overdone 1920s aesthetics.
also
>S@ging like a coward No.19968
>>19916that's not the point
No.19970
>>19967butthurt lel
>>19968nah.
also why post a few minute from the other post
No.19971
>>19970>butthurt No argument
>>19968Don't bother, they're a s*gefag that spam threads with vaguely relevant posts but nothing concrete to say, and schizophrenic takes after you reply.
No.19972
>>19971>schizophrenic>s*gefag that spam threadsWhy are you rping with yourself, 4fag?
No.19976
>>19909Down bad
>>3722>>2563Great takes
No.19978
>>19970>why post a minute from the other postBecause I'm a different poster, retard
No.19984
>>19973Nah
>>19978>I'm a different posterYou said it. Not me
>>19979brown woman cute
No.20431
Toph, Transgenders and Tomboys This is a post a long time coming but in many liberal circles, especially after KorrAsami's lazy canonicity, 'fans' of ATLA have tried to push the idea that "Toph is Transgender" admittedly it's not a large group but I'd like to address it nonetheless. As an example I've seen several users on the ATLA wiki say they think Toph is a Transgender character. There is even a debate thread that I read before deciding to make a position.
Example:
User Hasdi Bravo has stated that he believes Toph in a live action film should favor in casting Male actor Issac Jin Solstein in the role of Toph, since Toph is a "Boy In A Girls Body"Toph is by all metrics a Tomboy character, not trans. She's rough and ready and likes to do things that are traditionally masculine, like fighting, swearing, being rude n' sassy, adventuring and breaking the rules and other typical boyish things, this contrasts Aang perfectly (earth vs air) because he likes to be controlled, polite and unantagonistic, even if not constantly. Toph mocks this, calling him "twinkle-toes" and compares him to a girl. Yet there is no doubt that Aang is not feminine or female-identifying (he calls himself "a guy" for example). The same goes for Toph at the other end of the behavioral spectrum.
The aforementioned debate mentioned several key arguments I think deserve to be stated
1 - Toph NEVER expressed feelings of resentment towards her gender, or ever directly said she felt like a "Boy In A Girls Body" nor asked to be called by male pronouns
2 - She clearly expressed interest in the opposite sex on various occasions, her crush on Sokka for instance. or the fact that she HAD 2 DAUGHTERS!
3 - She clearly enjoyed participating in (stereotypical) girlish activities with Katara from time to time. The Day Spa short in Tales of Ba-Sing-Se is a perfect example.
4 - She outright stated in Book 3: "City of Walls and Secrets" that she deliberately acts against Female stereotypes because she hates being held to high expectations placed upon her as a member of the upper class.
"I learned proper society behavior and chose to leave it. You never learned anything. And frankly, it's a little too late."5 - ATLA, unlike Korra is intended as a Y7 Show and got made in the 2000s (yes it is that old). The issue is irrelevant given the restrictions placed upon Nickelodeon and Bryke by the rating and the fact that it simply isn't a massive issue.
6 - If Toph had been dysphoric she would actively masquerade as such while disguised or try and identify more with the males of the group. For instance, while fighting as the Blind Bandit, she made no attempt to disguise her gender to the other fighters. Instead she reveled in being a "little girl" that beat tough male fighters.
The main arguments for this trans-toph conception is
A) Toph originally got designed as a boy: her old character design was the Earthbender in the opening sequence - that old design be used for roku's earthbending teacher (Sud).
B) Toph got played by a muscular man in the Ember Island Play
The first one fails to hold because some cut or changed content is often done so for a good reason and even Azula had been intended to be a boy.
The second fails because, if it didn't seem obvious enough, the Ember Island Play parodied the series in an abridged manner and intentionally caricaturized them for the purpose of the Fire Nation Propaganda Narrative; Katara is not nearly that ridiculously sensitive, nor promiscuous; Aang is a boy and is not always happy and perky; Sokka makes jokes than other things besides meat; Iroh isn't a useless glutton who has nothing better to do with his time than stuff his face with cake, etc. Moreover historically plays (including Asian ones) often did have actors/actresses play opposing roles to get masculine or feminine characteristics across, something Toph is likely familiar with being raised in a higher class. It was probably a relief for her to not be portrayed as a scared little girl who just wants more (a tempting angle for the propaganda heavy production), and by a butt-kicking masculine actor who could probably better reflect her TOMBOY nature than any over the top actress the troupe had.
TL;DR: Toph is just a tomboy, and there is nothing wrong with that. Today's society takes an individual simply acting different from the norm and tries to excessively and ignorantly psychoanalyze it a la Freud and pigeonholes it into some half-assed diagnosis based on shaky concepts of liberal ideologues. Just because a girl acts like the traditional idea of a boy, or vise versa, they don't necessarily wish to be the other sex.
Also Tomboy thread
>>>/anime/2654 No.20432
>>20431I appreciate this post. I'm glad that I've never run into these circles but there seems to be this weird thing with fans of Cartoons where they feel that the need the products they consume to be "progressive" and "representative" else they would have no other way to express their political opinions (or worse - they think would appear to be unprogressive). Some of them are really obsessive about this even. Zizek and coffee or something etc. etc.
No.20608
>>13655>Finally there is a saying; Pacifism is a coward patting themselves on the back. That's not a saying. It's a line from DBZ Abridged.
>>14125Except Luke doesn't refuse to kill. He kills all the time. He's part of an insurrectionist revolutionary movement that is killing people at that very moment and is trying to blow up the megaweapon he's standing on, killing however many thousands more.
Luke refuses to give in to his anger, which is the significant difference. He doesn't try to stop Vader when Vader decides to kill Palpatine because Palpatine has to die, but Palpy was trying to get Luke to fucking murder him and/or Vader for emotional, personal reasons.
IMO Aang deciding to just cripple Ozai instead of executing him represents Aang abandoning his responsibilities as Avatar rather than embracing them. He was fully prepared to let Ozai continue his genocidal war of aggression against the entire planet, which was only saved because a turtle randomly decided to give him an out that had never been suggested or even contemplated as a possibility before.
No.20614
>>20431Good post.
>anybody whos gender non-conforming is transThis take is always mega retarded. This is legitimately invalidating to trans people's identities. It's looking at being trans as a performance instead of a reflection of something internal. The idea that trans people have to perform their identified gender literally comes from the old medical attitudes about making sure that someone really is trans. Cis people can be gender non-conforming and so can trans people. Nobody bats an eye if a cis woman wears jeans and a t shirt but if a trans woman does that she's dressing like a man or something. It's people who are trying to be woke but haven't made the barest attempt to understand the subject.
The only whisper of a hint that Toph could be trans or non-binary is that she likes her character being played by a man in the Ember Island play. But that's just as suggestive of her not caring about gender or gender roles. It's also clearly meant as a joke to contrast Aang's aangst about being played by a woman (which was a commentary by Bryke on their distaste for having boy characters voiced by women). If anything it makes the most sense to see Toph as a-gender or something. She doesn't give a shit about it except that she's consistently got some juvenile hetero feelings for Sokka and Zuko.
>1 - Toph NEVER expressed feelings of resentment towards her gender, or ever directly said she felt like a "Boy In A Girls Body" nor asked to be called by male pronouns Moreover she resented that people underestimated her for being a little girl and enjoyed her opponents' embarrassment and emasculation when they lost to her.
>6 - If Toph had been dysphoric she would actively masquerade as such while disguised or try and identify more with the males of the group.Also given that she's interpreted as a big buff guy in the play, it would make sense for her to disguise as a boy (and at her age it would be easy), and I don't think crossdressing would be that big of a sell to Nickelodeon considering Sokka crossdresses in like episode 3.
No.20616
>>20608>That's not a saying. It's a line from DBZ Abridged. I've heard that before DBZA's first episode even came out - granted it's pretty obscure a phrase. Heck Team 4star probably recreated the phrase on their lonesome.
>>20614>a commentary by Bryke on their distaste for having boy characters voiced by womenThat's kinda funny given that some of the best VAs in cartoons voice boys passably or excellently. I didn't have any idea as a kid that Naruto's dub isn't a guy or that Tara Strong voiced characters like OG Ben Tennyson. As a beginner VA myself it's not easy.
>>20432 Glad to help. I'm just sick of this shit in animated media and needed to carefully formulate a post so people didn't erroneously cry "reactionary!"
No.20660
>>20608NTA but thought I'd chime in.
>Luke doesn't refuse to kill. He kills all the time I'm more referring to him not striking Vader dead
besides Aang probably killed people using his bending directly or indirectly >He doesn't try to stop Vader when Vader decides to kill Palpatine because Palpatine has to die And also cause he had been kind of unable to under recently removed Sith Lightning torture.
>Aang deciding to just cripple Ozai instead of executing him represents Aang abandoning his responsibilities as Avatar rather than embracing them.Yeah that's true.
No.21298
Just finished watching both shows over the last two months and I really loved them both. I don't really get the hate for The Legend of Korra though, it was a really fine show and I felt it was mostly on par with the original show though both had their strengths and weaknesses.
No.21299
>>21298Did you binge them one after the other? If you blast through the episodes you're going to miss the differences, since you're still riding the hype of the original, if you took it slow and had a break to digest the original and then see LoK you'd probably be more critically-minded and see the issues voiced in this thread (and the main reason people had a negative reaction to LoK. Obviously in comparison to other contemporary cartoons LoK is great, it's just that compared to ATLA it is much less well made and squandered its potential on idpol, liberalism and generic 1920s steampunk.
No.21300
>>21298>I don't really get the hate for The Legend of Korra thoughIt's that it's lower quality and after the IRL gap between shows people were hyped to see more of the same setting, expecting something just as good.
No.21301
>>21299I'm pretty tired right now so I can't do a proper rundown on my opinions regarding both shows and some of the criticisms I have read on here and other places but I must say that I went into TLOK expecting to hate and it honestly blew my expectations away. Also the finale is still fresh in my mind and I thought it was better than ATLA's finale although both felt a bit rushed.
>>21300I guess, but it's been so long since it came out now and it's really weird how some people still treat it like it's the devil's spawn through some, imo, pretty flimsy critiques. Yeah the show had issues but some people seem to blow these issues to astronomic proportions.
No.21302
>>21301>I went into TLOK expecting to hate and it honestly blew my expectations away.If you have a low bar set from the beginning, you'll obviously have a good time. Most of us had a high bar set due to the relatively brilliance of the original, so it had been a let down instead. If you enjoyed it, good, positive emotions are better than negative ones, I couldn't enjoy it, every time something good happened, something dumb undercut it and I just got sick of that personally.
>the finale is still fresh in my mind and I thought it was better than ATLA's finale Agree to disagree I suppose.
NTA
>it's really weird how some people still treat it like it's the devil's spawn It's a bitter counter reaction to the lesbian shippers that hyped the series up, screamed at critics during the runtime of the series and kind of made the fandom a mess in general. Also recent Zoommer culture has been about getting information and forming opinions based on exclusively video reviews and so many just split on dogma about Korra (in support of or against it) based on no personal experience of the show itself.
The show is objectively poor, but only in comparison to stories of high standard like ATLA. Compared to Steven Universe or Star: Fores of Evil or High Guardian Spice, it's bloody great.
No.21312
>>21302Oh, sorry that you had such a bad experience. I guess expectations really can be a fan's worst enemy, plus I read that the show's production was a complete mess and that it was on the verge of cancellation after every season, that's probably why it felt pretty rushed at times.
Also yes, fandoms are the worst and shipping culture is cringe.
No.21314
>>21312Eh, ATLA definitely blows LOK out of the water though, all LoK really had over the original series was better antagonists, and even then they were fucktarded representations of 19th-20th Century political ideologies anyway
ATLA had an infinitely better hero’s journey than LoK did, Aang was (imo) a much more likable protagonist than Korra who is largely a cunt throughout the series, the supporting cast in the original show also come off as having far more depth, charisma, and a better relationship to each other than the crew in Korra did (even defenses of Korra note that while Avatar was much more of an ensemble show, in Korra the supporting cast is much more pushed into the background). The dieselpunk shit kinda sucked imo, I didn’t mind it for even the first three seasons but then the giant death mecha was nonsense to me and Zaheer was by far the best antagonist in both series, I also hated how the avatar became an Avatar of the light side when originally it seemed like the idea was that the avatar was the human embodiment of the Earth itself, bridging the connection between human society and nature, and bridging all human societies to each other as well, honestly they actually made the avatar concept seem LESS spiritual than in the original series despite exploring the Spirit World so much more.
While LoK is better than dogshit like Steven fucking Universe it gets blown out of the water by its predecessor
Also NTA
No.21315
>>21314On the isssue of villains, I think the problem is that people are reading ideological subtext where it wasn't intended to be. I don't think the writers intended for them to be 1:1 representations of real world ideologies, they are intended to fit their universe and its unique conditions.
On the second point, I think it helped that the original show had 62 episodes as opposed to Korra's 52, almost a season's worth of character development more than Korra. Korra was a much more busy show with Korra having to fight a new supervillain every season so maybe they didn't have much time to develop the cast as much as they could've, but all things considered I think that the cast was still great and played well off each other even if their stories could've been a little more fleshed out. I also really liked Korra as a character, yes she started off kind of rude and selfish but she had her heart in the right place and by the end of book 2 I was really rooting for her, seeing the end of book 3 really broke my heart and solidified my love her so she's on par with Aang for me (Aang was not always the best person in the original show either so it evens the playing field a bit).
I especially liked the aesthetic of the show and I absolutely love when fictional works are not afraid to massively change the world instead of sticking to the status quo.
I have to agree that the villains were not all that good, but in comparison with ATLA's villains they at least tried to write more compelling characters. Zaheer and his crew were the best to me as well and I think he was closest to having the right idea out of all the others even if his execution of idea was completely retarded, he even seems to show some remorse and understanding later on when Korra meets him again in his prison. Amon in my opinion was the worst, people keep saying that he is a strawman of communism but I don't see it at all. He's the closest thing the avatar universe has to a fascist if you actually know the difference between communism and fascism, and even then his ideology doesn't map onto real world fascism 1:1.
I didn't really care for the particulars of the Avatar lore so much so that didn't really bother me, but I thought the story of Avatar Wan was really good and definitely one of the highlights of the show, especially amidst the chaos in the middle of book 2.
All in all I think the show did so much right and I think some people are being a little too unfair towards it, but I guess to each their own.
No.21324
>>21312Yeah basically tbh. I don't get hung up on it, I made my posts here and don't get that mad about it, just disappointed.
No.21325
>>21315Honestly I thought the story of Book 2 was pretty interesting before the Avatar Wan, Chosen One, light vs darkside narrative got in the way
Originally it was about the mounting political differences between the North and South Water Tribes and the meteoric economic rise of the Southern Water Tribe leading the Northern Tribe to attempt to reassert political control over their Southern counterpart
Then it became about western anime Satan vs western anime Jesus
No.21328
>>21325Yeah it was wack. Anything that might have actually been interesting just didn't happen. Varrick being villainous went nowhere too.
No.21446
The Legend of Korra: Patterns in Time coming April 13th, 2022
An anthology of brand-new The Legend of Korra stories is coming on April 13th, 2022 from Dark Horse Comics. Here’s the official description:
“Your favorite characters from Team Avatar and beyond are here in this collection of stories, from the heartwarming to the hilarious. Join Korra, Asami, Mako, Bolin, Tenzin, and more familiar faces from The Legend of Korra, featured in stories specially crafted by a bevy of talented comics creators! Be sure to add these all-new stories to your Avatar Legends library”
https://avatarnews.co/post/668716647530545152/the-legend-of-korra-patterns-in-time-coming-april No.21448
>>21446Oh boy, more poorly drawn idpol and liberal political messages, huzzah…
No.21529
>>21448They literally had a billionaire mogul make money off of war and praise it and he got out Scot free with no real consequences. Realistic in it's absurdity but the way the show played it off is that Varrick is the good guy lol.
No.21536
>>21446What exactly did they mean by this cover?
No.21700
>>21536The duality of man.
Unironically though, based on only cover I can only extrapolate that they're going to give Asami some avatar/spirit abilities or some shit.
>>21662>Azula x Korra This is some DeviantArt tier shit.
No.21706
>>21700Actually they confirmed it's going to be a collection of short stories similar to The Lost Adventures and such, so this cover probably means nothing.
At least it will probably be better than the last two comics…
No.23764
>>21700>This is some DeviantArt tier shitIt does make sense though… in a twisted sense.
>>21706>it will probably be better than the last two comicsDid this pan out or not? I didn't bother keeping track of Korra comics since before that cover came out.
No.23834
>>2562https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN9rbfvq1dA>14 years*nghghhghgh*
anyways,
OFFICIAL RANKINGS:
ATLA
S1 > S2 > S3
Alternatively
S1 EP 1-8 > S2 EP 1-11 > S1 EP 10+13 > Rest OF S1+S2 > S3
LOK
S3 > S4 > S1 > S2
Alternatively
S3 > S1 (Mask Amon) > S4 1-6 > S1 (Mask Amon) + Rest of S4 > S2
No.23835
>>23834Thanks for the Nomads OST
>ATLA and LoK rankings I can't really rank ATLA seasons because they're unique and they lead into each other and transition the atmosphere of the series really well,
For LoK S1>S4>S2>S3
The anarchist nonsense of S3 is just really bad because of the way its done, S2 is pretty good for the first half, then derails into the Avatar Wang retcon shit. S1 got marred by the ending and minor details but otherwise had been pretty good and S4 had based Kuvira.
No.23836
>>23835>The anarchist nonsense of S3 is just really bad because of the way its doneI don't think this matter, Zaheer (and Co) are charismatic, the reveal of deadly airbending techniques and flight and the overall tone and feel of the season were great.
No.23837
>>23836I didn't find them really charismatic, though they are good villains but the handling of them kind of made them retarded. The idea could have been executed better is my point.
No.23848
>>21662jail baits and gay
Azula worse girl
No.25007
>>20660>not striking Vader deadIn the final exchange. I think because he recognizes that as being the incorrect decision, especially as Vader had been literally disarmed.
>Aang probably killed people using his bending directly or indirectlyEven excluding him mercing Zhao and a ton of firebenders at the North Pole during his Avatar-State/Ocean-Spirit fusion, he definitely crippled a couple Earthbender soldiers during the assault on the Palace and in his assisted escape from imprisonment by the 'Blue Spirit' (Zuko) he smashes fire nation troops off their ladders into the ground from a decent height, either crippling or killing them. And during the defense of the airbender temple against Firenation tanks, he caused an avalanche and helped blow up a mountain covered in troops… that's definitely lethal. But I think the point being made is that Aang rarely really came at an individual face-to-face intending to kill and/or maim them outside the Avatar State.
Finally I think part of the reason he beat Ozai without killing him is a demonstration of his power, but the Deus Ex Machina after it is the problem, not even that he left his enemy alive. Frankly it'd be a much more compelling idea to have him defeat Ozai and convince the Fire Lord to repent (much like Naruto did to many of his enemies) using this defeat as a practical demonstration of his ideology of Peace being better and stronger than Ozai's ideology of Domination and Destruction.
Some of Aang's deadly moments:
https://archive.ph/qKsny No.25034
Question: What the hell'd happen if Zhao had killed the Ocean Spirit instead of the Moon Spirit?
No.25035
>>25034Zhao was already a moron for fucking with the moon because tides are important not just in terms of managing your boats but in terms of keeping ocean ecosystems alive by preventing water from stagnating and increasing the transition zone between land and sea, which is important for many species. But slaying the ocean itself would have been an unbelievably stupid move. The moon turned red when the spirit was removed from the pond and then vanished when it was killed. If the ocean just vanished, presumably every Fire Nation ship in their navy (which is the bulk of their military) would fall through the air to the ocean floor. If removing the ocean created a vacuum instead of just replacing it with air (why would that happen?), the whole surface of the planet would be engulfed in a shockwave comparable to a nuclear blast that covered the entire ocean. Let's assume that doesn't happen and the ocean is replaced with air or something. Let's also ignore the fact that relieving the weight of the ocean from the planet's crust would cause tremendous isostatic rebound that would also destroy the entire planet as the parts of the crust formerly under water raised in elevation and parts that were not lowered in elevation by probably miles in definitely seconds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isostasy Even if we assume that the ocean doesn't leave a vacuum, this would still happen and there's no way around it besides complete fantasy hand-waving.
Zhao would obliterate the Fire Nation military while at the same time connecting Fire Nation territory to everyone else over land. The disappearance of water would create a Mad Max apocalypse where all water basically dried up eventually (since all water is connected through the water cycle). If anything the Water Tribes would be hurt the least by this because of the large amount of (frozen) water at the poles (at least temporarily). Anybody who made it out of the north pole would know who was responsible, and everyone would have every reason to take the fight to the Fire Nation. The Earth Kingdom in particular would newly have the ability to reach the Fire Nation since before they lacked the sophisticated navy that allowed the Fire Nation to cross the sea. The sea was the hard counter to earthbenders because any earth they brought would be a lot of extra weight and before Toph nobody could bend the metal of a large ship. But now all the Earthbenders can simply walk (or propel themselves with bending) into the Fire Nation and clap Ozai's cheeks, probably well before Sozin's Comet arrived.
Even if conveniently Pakku had another daughter who was saved by the Ocean Spirit and balance was restored, the Fire Nation would still be turbo-fucked. Even if the Ocean just disappeared and reappeared without thunderous atmospheric displacement, the Fire Navy would still be smashed from the fall, and then even the ones who were in shallow waters and survived that would probably be drowned (some at coastal docks may have survived the fall and had the presence of mind to scramble back to land). Almost all the material resources of the navy (most of their military) would be gone in an instant, and any personnel not on dry land would be dead. The war would be pretty much over, because there would no longer be provisions and orders arriving to the occupiers in the colonies (although they were probably self-sustaining). Very quickly the Earth Kingdoms would realize that the Fire Nation could no longer militarily back up its occupation and would proceed to kick them out and possibly try to retaliate (although as mentioned above crossing the ocean would be prohibitively difficult).
However, the Fire Nation was developing their air ships at this point and depending on where that manufacturing was located they might be able to recover and pivot from sea power to air power as their primary force. This is a big if, though, because their supply lines definitely depended on sea shipping because extra weight on airships is even more expensive than on sea ships. Probably rather than them being able to recover they would see a societal collapse due to a failure to maintain their basic infrastructure and consumption needs. There would almost certainly be a Fire Nation civil war, which would be exceptionally deadly if it (most likely) was ongoing at the time of Sozin's comet. Especially considering none of the benders would know their own strength. Even in this best-case scenario for the Fire Nation their society would likely be all but wiped out much like the Air Nomads had been.
Fire Nation occupiers in the Earth Kingdom would probably fare a bit better since they already control a lot of territory and tend to have superiority when it comes to technology and logistics. If they are building war vehicles (especially airships that can out-range any earth-based attack) on that continent, that location might be able to become self-sufficient and turn into a local power, but it would be quite vulnerable and under siege from Earth citizens who were angry about the occupation. Whether they could function as an industrial center is doubtful, though, because they would have to secure the necessary material support for this activity, which probably was coming from the colonies on the continent rather than from the Fire Nation, but which now is no longer backed up by an effective military and would immediately become ripe targets for rebels.
tl;drRealistically it utterly destroys the surface of the planet and kills everything or if fantasy magic is in play it mostly just giga-fucks the Fire Nation in particular since they depend on the sea much more than anybody else, especially for the military.
No.27653
>>4384>I have the series in video files2 years late but post them!
No.27674
>>23883Fucking hate this smug libtard.
No.27716
>>23883>>27674Dropped this the moment he claimed Korra Season 3 is "as good if not better than Last Airbender at times"
No.27719
>>23883>3/4th of an hour video doing fanfiction attempting to make Korra not complete shit>>25007>Frankly it'd be a much more compelling idea to have him defeat Ozai and convince the Fire Lord to repent (much like Naruto did to many of his enemies) using this defeat as a practical demonstration of his ideology of Peace being better and stronger than Ozai's ideology of Domination and Destruction. To do that justice would probably require the whole season, which honestly might have been better than the season 3 we actually got. Instead of building up Ozai as some ultimate anime villain, he and Aang cross paths a few times or something like that and Aang works his way through the Fire Nation sabotaging the war effort and solving people's problems, undermining morale on the home front. By the time of the comet maybe they just can't hold up the war machine any longer because of the combination of sabotage and Aang subverting their loyalty to the war effort. Like the episode where he wins over the school kids, but for the whole season.
No.27724
>>27719>To do that justice would probably require the whole season, which honestly might have been better than the season 3 we actually got. Perhaps, but honestly even if you only changed the final episodes of S3 you could still have Aang do the entire curbstomp of Ozai, then deactivate his avatar mode and talk, casually slapping aside Ozai's attempts and finally taking his abilities, not through energy bending from a special turtle, but perhaps an advanced version of Ty Lee's abilities that he uses to shut the Chakra-gates he already learned of, and in taking this non-fatal route finally prove to Ozai, that HIS idea of peace and non-violence is superior and that he proved it by beating Ozai at his violent game and then displaying mercy.
But expanding on my 'Talk no Jutsu' analogy, Talk no Jutsu works usually because of the enemy’s inherit contradiction in their beliefs and actions. That's the reason it didn't have relevance to a character like Madara or Deidara or Hidan. Ozai is supposed to be a generic fascist, and that's honestly fine, Lily Orchard's one good video talks about this.
BUT your idea could function. Aang could use perhaps some Spirit bending thing to demonstrate to Ozai the things he saw and felt, hiding in the Fire Nation and other nations, the squalor and hatred and abuse and death and misery, all wrought by has actions even for his people. To demonstrate that his idea of conquest brought nothing but destruction and would eventually destroy him too.
No.28996
>>28995 What the fuck is this meme even from, why is it so popular all over normie-net?
>>28685 Kinda more like firework launchers, the predecessors to cannons in China, but yes that is correct.
No.28997
>>27719>3/4th of an hour video doing fanfiction attempting to make Korra not complete shit and still failingFTFY
No.29000
>>28681>why don't people use guns in AvatarWell the fire nation are the ones who are most industrialized, so they would have the greatest ability to actually make guns, but they have soldiers who can shoot fireballs with just training and the gift of bending. They have not much reason to invest in guns. And as for everyone else, you have the issues of the powder being flammable. Early guns had serious issues with powder igniting easily and injuring or killing the user. So fire benders will uno reverse your ass. Given that we have people like Zhao who are reckless with fire, they would have a much higher risk of randomly exploding than users of early firearms did IRL.
The other lesser (but still major) problem is that powder is useless when wet, so waterbenders are also a hard counter. One of the Earthbenders' staple moves is raising an earth shield, which could provide sufficient cover on demand. Not a hard counter, but still a strong defense. Airbenders don't necessarily have a good defense (I guess they could bend the air out of the gun so nothing can ignite lol).
So with the exception of Airbenders the early guns would be pretty useless. And without the early guns being effective like they were IRL they probably would not catch on the way they did IRL. Might just be relegated to a weird niche weapon not unlike the boomerang. Cannons might be useful as artillery but the show had all types of benders except air shown having artillery specialists that can launch their element like a catapult without any tools. Still would be useful for non-benders (they do have actual catapults), but would be very inferior in terms of rate of fire and probably not especially strong in terms of damage comparatively.
No.29004
>>28996Looks like one of those pathetic 'oh no my ass is on social media by accident haha' pictures, total simp shit.
No.29022
>>29010 The original pic is kinda funny but all these redraw's are honestly boring desu. Basically
>>29004 had it covered.
>80% of the people doing it probably don't realize it was originally a dude's ass Or they don't care, rule 63 and all that.
https://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=he_wants_to_order No.29097
>>29067 Only in fanart is it wholesome unfortunately, the actual "canon" of it is just lazy idpol.
No.29110
>>29067who are they, korra and…?
No.29122
>>29067>>29097Maybe the new Avatar studio that Nickelodeon created will do a limited series about their honeymoon in the spirit world.
No.29124
>>29122No they already did a comic of it and it sucked.
No.29132
>>29127how can women suck
there's no benis?
No.29134
>>29127 Unfortunately no, that'd actually improve the comic.
>>29126>2026 <3 character movies based off shitty comics They're really milking this franchise dead, aren't they?
>>29132 They'll both be eating fish…
or one of them's a futa because bullshit spirit magic or something No.29137
>>29136>shit anti-union diabeties 'coffee' chainabsolutely disgusting image to post
No.29169
>>29136 >Movies won't be comic book adaptations. The creators talked about it. So instead it'll be fanfiction like Shyamalan (the comics are supposed to be canon), no thanks. Legend of Korra got bad enough and the live action doesn't exist, I don't want more retroactive fucking over of the series.
>>29137 At ease m8, it's just a meme
>>29139 what specifically?
No.29206
>>29134>one of them's a futa because bullshit spirit magic or somethingB U E N O
No.29209
>>29207 Anon relax your anus and realize that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. People do the starbucks mommy milk meme because coomershit dominates burger society as a result of alienation and porn-addiction. Attacking people for it is fucking lame and high-handedly reductionist.
No.29210
>>29209"There is no ethical consumption under capitalism" means that you can't consume your way to fixing things and that any consumption plays into the problem. It
does not mean that you can consume anything you want without responsibility. The absence of a pure, unstained commodity doesn't mean that consuming something excessively harmful is fine.
No.29211
>>29210>t does not mean that you can consume anything you want without responsibility Not my meaning, but even assuming that, fictional characters being coomerized is hardly a crime that should be put to the firing squad.
Moreover I meant that people do this because of material dialectics under capitalism, they are not conscious of it and are going to resist understanding it as "moralfagging" or other shit like that.
No.29216
>>29211I've heard from people who got sexually harassed by customers based on that meme. It doesn't exist in a vacuum.
No.29217
>>29216men are retarded, more at eleven
No.29218
>>29216>sexually harassed by customers based on that memephysically harassed? Also again my point is you need to
A) relax, outrage on the internet isn't going to stop the meme, if anything you'll probably encourage it out of spite
B) understand the bigger picture if you're going to materially analyze and be a communist.
>>29217>men are retarded for nice tits, more at elevenFTFY
No.29299
One of my cousins has an avatar character as their avatar
What does that mean and how do I become cool and refrence avatar things
I have not seen the show or the James Cameron movies
No.29302
>>29279I want to be bullied by them
No.29304
>>29299Absolutely praying this is a joke rn.
or your ngmi
No.29306
>>29304>autist bullying autistsngmi
No.29311
>>29304?
what's the problem
No.29335
>>29299>>29311>>29304>James Cameron movies.LMAO
No.35491
>>35489>>29505Korrasami was 100% driven by lesbian-fetishizing coomers which makes it a lot funnier that they made it canon to pander to actual gay people.
No.35492
>>2815> How much of this is an internal thing between writers who wanted to explore the topics vs writers who didn't and how much is just deliberate characterization of Korra who knows.I've always had a hunch that the reason the writing in big tv shows can be so disjointed and contradictory at times is different factions of the writing team with different visions for the show, I would bet similar conflicts even happen among the animators when deciding on the overall aesthetic and visuals of the show too.
No.35566
>>2805>the "ends never justify the means" This applies to most of the Korra villains too tbh.
>>2888 Checked triple 8s for based post
>https://old.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/comments/8ta6bz/all_spoilers_why_kuvira_was_literally_never_wrong/ Also archived of the thread
https://archive.is/17Z26 >>2804 >the Benders vs Non-Benders thing was more like "Nazism, but the Jews actually do have magic powers and actually do rule the world, and the SS are ninjas who can disable Jew Warlocks." Kek this reminds me of a /pol/ post where they somehow decided that vampires were inspired by Jews and liberals also ate it up because it fed their schizophrenia
>>12220 >>2815 >she starts to justify it because of… "bender fragility" or something. Ironically the way it's portrayed makes Korra look like the correct one, especially since they lifted the overall behavior and attitude of the Equalist rally's off of feminist 'protests' of the 2010s, even though they simultaneously want to also somehow involve rightoids by having the bait-n-switch with Amon and his gang being lying bad guy meanies. So it gets very muddled in what it wants to say in relations to [X]-Rights protests politics and ends up saying everyone is wrong but the Mary Sue.
>LoK brings up the actual politics multiple times but then glosses over it as soon as Korra arrives because she doesn't care It really is asinine when the main character - involved by destiny itself to be a major influence on the world stage to keep the peace between peoples (involving the need to understand the perspectives of everyone, including politics of countries) - just doesn't give a shit about understanding others, lacking compassion, empathy or at the very least clinical comprehension, in spite of her motivation being that "she wants to go out and do Avatar 'stuff'" being the reason the show's plot even exists from season to season.
No.35584
>coomer
derisive eyeroll dot jaypeg
No.35586
>>35584anon are you unaware of the sheer volume of porn that Korra has inspired?
No.35591
>>35584>Copium - The Post >>35586Nah they're just salty and feel called out.
No.35595
>>35586doesn't matter, anyone that uses "coomer" is a moron and their opinion doesn't matter
No.35652
anyone that uses "coomer" and "cumbrain" and expects to be taken seriously is a moron and their opinion doesn't matter
No.35654
>>35652>malding too hard>must return to bump the threadnobody begrudges you your chocolate abs waifu, but the last minute korrasami thing was objectively pandering to horny people on tumblr
No.35677
>>35672Makes me wish they actually did a good job writing the relationship. Maybe the Avatar Studios project will do a slice of life about them honeymooning in the spirit world.
No.35678
>>35677 They already had a comic series about that and it was awful. And frankly they couldn't have written the relationship better, because you'd have to rewrite the plot, the story and the characters of the 2 at the very least. Both Asami and Korra are frankly toxic people, the latter more overtly than the former. Visually at least they're not repulsive, but I can compartmentalize a character's visage from their actual canon character.
>>35672Lifeguard Korra is cool, the artstyle is pretty good too.
Still not a fan of KorrAsami, and never will be, but it's funny to note that most fan-art for the ship or even just the friendship is more wholesome and just better than the actual canon ship… kinda like a lot of 'canon' yuri ships to be honest.
No.35679
>>35678>you'd have to rewrite the plot, the story and the characters of the 2 at the very leastI mean… yeah I guess that is what I was asking for. The show had pretty embarrassing writing for most of it.
No.35723
>>35700I wonder if they'll make this one asexual to try and sidestep any sexual politics.
No.35726
>>35723A) If they outright state that, it'll still get backlash, from both gays and straights
B) You don't NEED sexual relationships or even romantic ones in a kids animated show. ATLA was very sparse with that stuff and it kept the story from being pushed around by the intimate relationship dynamics of characters, like Korra did.
No.35739
>>35726Maybe they'll do something fun like give him a non human live interest, like an alien or something, or some kind of monstergirl or boy.
No.35742
>>35723>>35726It was probably unintentional but picrel is the right way to do an asexual character. Just don't have them register anything sexual ever, especially when other characters would. It doesn't need to be discussed explicitly, and it would most likely be fumbled or embarrassing if they did.
It would also mean that romance would probably take a backseat in the series overall which would be good. They didn't fuck it up that much in Airbender with Aang's conflict between Korra and the Avatar state (but that was a weak bit), but Korra utterly shat the bed on it. They don't have the same writers that made Airbender work so they are better off avoiding what they're weak with and playing to their strengths instead.
No.35743
>>35700I hope it’s sequel and not a prequel. But at the same time I wonder would the world be really interesting after what we saw in Korra, if it’s sequal then it should take place sometime around “modern” times which would in my opinion be boring. I also think it would be interesting if we got an avatar that plays an antagonistic role.
No.35744
>>35739>An AlienWell we haven't gotten the ATLA-verse into space yet, so why the hell not? Would be interesting to see the applications of bending on a comet or something. Also this reminds me of a fanfiction where some Star Federation like humanoid aliens are actually drifting over the ATLA world and one of the members joins the Gaang as a 'study' of the planet. I really wish I could find that fic.
>some kind of monstergirl or boyOr just go for straight up teratophilia at this point, Avatars have links to the spirits, and we know there are many different ones, it's not inconsistent to the Asian mythology and culture that ATLA is based on, to have spirits and humans be in relationships.
No.35746
>>35742Luffy is asexual in the sense that he's like a child, he literally doesn't give a shit about all that because he's not mentally mature enough to understand it, so asexual in the natural (if a little retarded) sense. One Piece also operates on bullshit physics too, so that's something to consider.
>Just don't have them register anything sexual ever, especially when other characters would. It doesn't need to be discussed explicitly, and it would most likely be fumbled or embarrassing if they did.Yep, I agree with that
>They don't have the same writers that made Airbender work so they are better off avoiding what they're weak with and playing to their strengths instead. They oughta hire some fanfic writers, there's plenty of good, non-shipper ones that make splendid AUs that could author good ideas for this Earth Kingdom Avatar
>>35743 I'd prefer a prequel in terms of seeing a world before the 100 year war, clearly there had to have been conflicts before that between the different elemental cultures, we know basically nothing regarding centuries of Avatar history. As for an Avatar in a modern setting, the problem is the same as with Korra
A) Anachronistic technology (radios, phones and cars) developing at the same time within 100 year time frame with no explicable reason as to how
B) The story takes all the cultural development of ATLA as an Asian based world, and just splats on 1920s 'Murica onto it rather than going with the material development that was set by the cultures we see in that verse. Bbasically it just takes the Avatar and plops them into a culture that reflects our reality rather than material dialectics. The development of Asian cultures changed drastically with the colonialism and westernization of the 18th and 19th centuries, and the Fire Nation's 100 year war is sort of similar, but it would still develop differently and so a 'modern' Avatar-verse shouldn't be quite like ours ideally, with more Asian elements to its Steampunk
However I admit there is something interesting in seeing the spiritual Avatar in a unnatural, artificial environment that is modern civilization.
No.35769
>>35744>Would be interesting to see the applications of bending on a comet or something.The plot of TLA revolves around a plot comet, and season 1 climax revolves around the moon.
No.35775
>>35700Who's making the show?
No.35776
Americans just shouldn’t be allowed to write the new avatar content. It’s seems to me that most flaws Korra has suffered from are the result of American mentality and the idea that America is the natural end point of any civilisation.
No.35777
>>35775Nickelodeon created an Avatar studio for all these new productions. It is headed by the creators/showrunners of the original shows. They were working on the Netflix live action adaptation but left over "creative differences" and then Nick gave them a whole production subsidiary.
No.35793
>>35777>777Checkem
Also I didn't know they left Netflix, I thought they were still collaborating with the Red N, given that Aaron is still doing Dragon Prince with them.
>>35776The problem is the Bryke are the only ones really in control of the project, as other less known but important writers and people in the production team left. Thus it leaves us with 2 extremely liberal dudes that only have half-baked ideas left over from the cutting-room of the old show, and decided to insert ideas that didn't make it through editing of the original show (like Avatar Wan) into Korra, even though many ideas were removed for good reason. Then they made the story/plot centered around democracy vs extremism, and failed horrendously as explained in several posts of this thread. This on top of Bryke's love of 1920s aesthetic, and the lack of any quality control to keep them in check, resulted in Korra - encapsulating the
American mentality and the idea that America is the natural end point of any civilisation. No.35795
>>35793They're definitely liberals for sure. I mean they had Varrick billionaire industrialist who kidnapped the president and played both sides in a civil war and he got off Scot free. So yeah they're liberals, but who knows, maybe their politics has improved since 2015. The great thing about them heading a new series is being able to see if they have changed since then and since they like to include contemporary politics in their show it'd be interesting to see if they have become leftists since then or of they're basically liberals still.
No.35796
>>35795>they had Varrick billionaire industrialist who kidnapped the president and played both sides in a civil war and he got off Scot freeAnd that's not even talking about Asami - see pic 2
>>2888 >maybe their politics has improved since 2015Going by the Korra comic series, I'd say they've doubled down. Frankly the loss of the smaller but equally important members of the original ATLA team reminds me of how RoosterTeeth lost Monty and some other key figures, which is why RWBY declined in many regards under MKEK/CRWBY. Though at least RT has the excuse of being an Indie company for the majority of that time-period.
>since they like to include contemporary politics in their show it'd be interesting to see if they have become leftists since then or of they're basically liberals still.Going by the liberal narratives from Dragon Prince and (again) the Korra comics, I'm going to reiterate doubt.
No.35846
>>19783>>19782>>19778>>19777 Thinking about the show more, in particular to the 'inherent magic' aspect, it makes no sense that humans are incapable of naturally possessing and utilizing magic, since 'all living beings have it' yet humanity must use special stones with magical elements inside or default to "dark magic" rituals to use it. Essentially humanity gets the short end of the stick and when they try to even the odds, they're shunned and attacked, and in the meantime the elves and other magical creatures are all stereotypical "harmonious with nature" and incredibly arrogant for it. It feels like the show-writers looked at Miyzaki's Princess Mononoke and Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind and only saw half the message being carried across, and the half they did register was interpreted in a simplistic manner too. Humans for the most part are the villains or the equivalent of Skyrim NPCs, with only some individuals given good aspects, almost all of them ideologically liberals. I started the series off with interest - the initial world-building is nowhere near ATLA but is still pretty interesting. However the further the story went, the more annoyingly glaring became it's lib-pol aspects. Ironically, like a lot of current media with liberal ideologue inserts, the story ends up unironically propagating rightwing ideas (such as magic dirt or inherent superiority both moral and cultural of one race over another, etc.) It's a pattern that can be seen in most mainstream Hollywood productions of the past 10 years.
On a different note I dislike how Callum and Rayla didn't become an item. It was becoming apparent that Claudia was removed from the running romantically by Season 3, and Callum and Rayla, being the only adolescents of their group at the time had chemistry that ketp getting teased but didn't go through with sealing the deal, by having them break up before they're even together in S4. Like what better way to mend old grudges and petty racial disputes than by the example of having a healthily loving interspecies relationship with a different race? Or hell having the children of such a union being a uniting factor, a common ground on the personal level? They instead pawned a fulfilled relationship off onto other, secondary characters and none of those relationships was heterosexual, often-times being out of nowhere to boot. It mostly felt like forced diversity meant to appease the egos of the writing team and the politics they endorsed, rather than organic character building, which is the same reason KorrAsami feels forced in LoK.
Speaking of, I disagree with
>>19775 that Aaron Ehaz is possibly right-wing for that magic dirt thing, since if that were the case, then I'm fairly sure a right-winger wouldn't be having primarily non-straight relationships in a series. As I said earlier in this post, it's just an ironic aspect of liberal ideologues, unironically affirming rightwing memes, but with mirrored justification.
No.35847
>>35846I think the humans not having magic is a really obvious weird detail that probably will end up being a lot more important by the end of the show. Maybe something like humans having a fall from grace or being from a different world originally.
No.35848
>>35847 It's been several seasons already, plus auxiliary material in the form of 'graphic novels' I seriously doubt that, especially considering the level of technology humanity is at, even after centuries since the first "dark magic" user appeared.
No.35849
>>35848Well there's 2 seasons left and that's totally the kind of reveal you pull at the eleventh hour in a story like this.
No.35873
>>35872Probably more inspired by North Korea… though the two propaganda pots bleed into each other a lot sure.
No.35874
It’s a children’s show who’s messages are dumbed down to the point a child could understand them. The writers obviously based it off their idea of China. Every villain in Kora is based of a dumb take of a different ideology. Avatar is about defeating the nazis and the commies and bringing the world back to balance. The entire series is reactionary and about the status quo. Pointing out this one portrayal is just as bad as any of the posts in r/avatar that point out really obvious social dynamics
>if you notice in this frame he’s smiling, which means he’s happy
>notice how his line where he says sorry is actually a deep portrayal of empathy
>the over powered move is secretly overpowered
>see how the authoritarian state uses soft and hard power to control the populace through use of soft and hard power?
No.35875
I recently rewatched avatar. I liked it but i felt a bit too old to be watching it at times. Anyway i didnt really see a resemblance between ba sing se and any real country. Sure the writers mightve meant it to look like some evil asian country but to me it just seemed like a generic "yo these villagers are crazy" type plot. Its not a bad plot but it doesnt really work as propaganda i think. Its a bit like watching children of the corn and saying it resembles… idk france or something
No.35876
Sometimes it feels like leftoids with a victim complex are trying really hard to see anticommunism where there isn't any.
No.35878
>>35877Broke: ba sing se is communist
Woke: him from powerpuff girls is communist
Bespoke: vexus from my life as a teenage robot is communist
Toke: aku from samurai jack is communist
No.35879
Ba Sing Se is clearly a representation of monarchist China holding their heads in the sand whilst the world around them is accelerating and the Imperialists are at their gates after ravaging and pillaging their once powerful nation.
No.35880
I hate that the world of Avatar develops capitalism in legend of Korra. You'd think that the avatar would be wise enough to see how bad a fucking idea that would be.
Maybe he was busy rebuilding the world after a brutal 100 year war of genocide but still.
No.35881
>>35880Not even the avatar can stop progress like that
No.35882
Lake Laogai is on top of a reeducation center, and is named after Laogai, Chinese labor prisons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaogaiThe Dai Li are likely named after a KMT spy of the same name
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dai_LiTheir uniforms however are modeled after Chinese imperial guards such as pic related
The Earth King himself is directly modeled after Emperor Puyi, which is obvious. Both puppet rulers who never really left the walls of their palace
Joo Dee is based off a Chinese tour guide Bryke followed when they were visiting Beijing before the creation of the show.
There is definitely a typical American fear and suspicion of communist China present in AtLA, I imagine it's more pronounced in Korra. But it's also a mishmash of anything Chinese in general
Not anime THOUGH
(end merge from /anime/) No.36064
>>35882>this is someone's fetish.jpg >Joo Dee AzulaJesus this feels like a more complicated stepfordization,
though Azula deserves it. As a side note, the Pupil Dilation after the Joo Dee's get the phrase "The Earth King has invited you to Lake Laogai" was horrifying
I'm surprised that Azula (given her use of the Dai Lee after taking over) didn't have Mai and Ty Lee brainwashed using the Dai Lee's methods, since she clearly didn't have any qualms about it. Imagine Azula used the Dai Li brainwashing techniques on Mai, Ty Lee, and the Kyoshi Warriors while they were in prison after their betrayal at Boiling Rock. Turning them into her personal guards against their will would have been very in character for her and maybe having Mai and Ty Lee show up as final mini-bosses when Zuko and Katara faced off against Fire Lady Azula would have been both a good use of the characters and add an extra portion of darkness to the show; Imagine seeing Zuko's reaction to seeing Mai like that when his last memory was of her saving him in spite of him breaking her heart, or Katara's reaction to seeing the cheery Ty Lee act as a deadly emotionless automaton.
No.36066
>>35744>just go for straight up teratophilia at this point, Avatars have links to the spirits, and we know there are many different ones, it's not inconsistent to the Asian mythology and culture that ATLA is based on, to have spirits and humans be in relationships.This made me remember Inuyasha actually, since it explores different sorts of human-yokai relationships which would be an interesting expansion of Avatar lore or story building.
Also Inuyasha thread
>>>/anime/5470 No.36069
>>36064>I'm surprised that Azula (given her use of the Dai Lee after taking over) didn't have Mai and Ty Lee brainwashed using the Dai Lee's methods, since she clearly didn't have any qualms about it.They were more useful to her as their normal selves, and before the boiling rock episode she never had any issue manipulating them herself. It speaks more to her arrogance that she didn't really consider their betrayal a possibility, and she clearly gets sadistic pleasure from toying with people, them included.
No.36070
>>36069>They were more useful to her as their normal selves>before the boiling rock episode she never had any issue manipulating them herselfWhat I meant was that after Boiling Rock it would be in character and possible for Azula to have Mai and Ty Lee brainwashed, essentially suppressing the human component to make use of their skills even after their betrayal. And thus Azula gains back her 2 best fighters… but loses her friends, burning all bridges even if the brainwashing could be removed.
Also I'm surprised that LoK never used much of the brainwashing aspect, like the Earth Queen would totally use it considering her utter disregard of the lower class and human rights and her craving for power. Why wouldn't she have the air benders brainwashed?
No.36071
>>36069>>36070Also this just sent me on a spin-off thought of "What if Long Feng used brainwashing by default on the Dai Li?" or "What if Long Fend brainwashed Azula and Co. From the Start?"
And lo and behold a user named TDL or TheDaiLi wrote that exact concept
https://cartoon.adult-fanfiction.org/story.php?no=600091651 Additionally it would make sense for Long Feng to have hidden commands on all Dai Li agents, not just Joo Dee. Thus, in the iconic scene of the Dai Li betraying Long Feng, he actually had a last resort where he could say "Dai Li, you have been invited to Lake Laogai", putting them into trance and then ordering all the Dai Li agents to capture Azula.
No.36072
>>36070Fair but I think it fits her arc better to just become paranoid after her closest allies turn on her. She thought she could trust them implicitly and then couldn't. She thought Long Feng was an idiot and probably wouldn't trust the brainwashing to keep them in line. Kind of an interesting what-if, but her friends' betrayal is pretty important to her starting to really lose her grip and become unhinged.
No.36073
>>35882>pic 3>What if Azula was Brainwashed to Joo Deeby Nori-Draws
How did you find that pic without a DA watermark? Watermark removers are ass at doing it cleanly.
https://www.deviantart.com/nori-draws/art/What-if-Azula-was-Brainwashed-to-Joo-Dee-882437430 No.36074
>>36072>it fits her arc better to just become paranoid after her closest allies turn on herBrainwashing would still fit the paranoia theme, a la every other brainwashed-assassin in dystopian fiction.
>probably wouldn't trust the brainwashing to keep them in line I suppose so.
>her friends' betrayal is pretty important to her starting to really lose her grip and become unhinged.Having her try to interact with her friends after getting lonely and not getting real responses due to them no longer being themselves would also lend itself to madness.
No.36083
>>35846So Rayla and Callum broke up huh? I kind of wanted that to happen for the reason of their age. They should date more people and then find themselves back to each other when they're much more mature.
No.36168
>>35878Kek
>>35875>i felt a bit too old to be watching it at times That's ok Shay, it IS a children's cartoon, although I can still appreciate the effort and nuance of the worldbuilding, characters and plot.
>Its a bit like watching children of the corn and saying it resembles… idk france or somethingThat's an interesting analogy
No.36171
>>35875>it just seemed like a generic "yo these villagers are crazy" type plotFitting since that's a good chunk of the series.
Also it's funny that someone wrote up a thing about how Ba Sing Se is anti-China but we're ignoring the episode in the Fire Nation school that actually is a reference to real life brainwashing, and it's actually clearly directed at the United States, what with the parody of the pledge of allegiance.
No.36643
>>36578I'm starting to hate ahegao.
No.37538
>>37537It's gonna sink or swim largely on the strength of the child actors being able to act and convincingly do the martial arts. The CGI looks mid-budget but acceptable and probably not going to ruin it.
Live Action One Piece was a surprise success so maybe Netflix pulled this off too.
No.37540
>>37537why'd they make sokka white? if ever there was a show to be the sjw beacon for having 0 honkeys it was this one.
No.37543
>>37537>what if we took Animated Thing and made it soulless live actionwhy do they keep doing this
No.37569
>>37543because stupid people keep watching it
No.37599
>>37537Huh, it doesn't look too bad actually.
No.37600
>>37543Animated stuff and writers are expensive. AAA movies are basically tax writeoff fodder so having to keep up with a legacy while avoiding unionized / unionization-risk employees is the sweet spot rn. That's why there's so many CGI animated movies, 3D isn't significantly easier, it's just less unionization risk.
No.37601
>>37600It's also still "common knowledge" in marketing that only kids watch cartoons, so the thinking is you can get a bigger audience by bringing it to live action (a "real" medium).
No.37632
>>37601To be fair most adults don't watch cartoons all that often, youtube videos and online discourse skews this image, but at least from what I've seen most adults 30+ years old do not watch cartoons or watch them rarely, and even young adults aren't watching them that often. I know like 4 or 5 people that watch them in any amount out of hundreds.
That being said, the "cartoons are made for kids" is a shit argument used to justify bad writing and bad animation.
No.37640
>>37543guaranteed audience, you can't make a new IP nowadays because it's too risky and the market is already flooded
No.37645
>>37543live action is viewed as a more respectable art genre, compared to animation.
No.39635
>>39631watched ep1. so far, not liking the acting too much. but it's difficult to tell if that's the script or the actors fault. i think that they've failed to deliver some important exposition about the world, but w/e, it's only the first episode surely they get around to it later on.
No.39637
cringe.
one of the advantages of animation is that you can "shoot" action scenes in single continuous wide shots. or a series of relatively long wide shots. where the beauty and acrobatics of the fight choreography is properly shown off and complimented. doing that in live action requires lots of preparation, getting many takes, and often putting lives at risk (hong kong style), all of this for the show producers essentially boils down to a whole lot of money expenditure. which is why they don't do it that way. either they don't bother writing and choreographing intricate beautiful acrobatic martial arts fight scenes, or they shoot fight scene in the now-characteristic hollywood way. many cuts, deceptive angles, doubles, and cgi. of course, animating intricate choreography is also expensive and difficult in it's own way. they are increasingly rare in modern animation. but at least they don't require the hiring, training, ensuring and logistical planning that producing those scenes with actors would require.
but the original atla was made with excellently choreographed and animated fight scenes to the point where they (although they are not the only thing) are an iconic and integral part of the original show. and those fight scenes and the martial-artness (i don't know how else to describe it) is embarrassingly absent in the new show.
No.39640
>>39637 (me)
i'm not trying to say that the action was the most important part of the show. but for this show in particular it is a very important part. not only because of the added spectacle (and that
is important imo) but because it's part of the world building of how bending works (ignoring anything in the avatar universe besides atla the original show no matter if michael dante dimartino and brian konietzko had anything to do with it).
the show fails in other ways that some people might consider more important however. character arcs and exposition are poorly delivered because of poor writing that tries to cram all the plot points of season 1 and some of season 2 into just 8 episodes.
No.39641
>>39640The martial arts was a key part of the characterization and storytelling. That's standard for martial arts movies/shows, really. The cartoon just went farther than usual with the worldbuilding to represent different styles to relate to different cultures and so on.
>8 episodesThis is probably the bigger problem. They are too tight with the episode count because it's cheaper and they want people to binge the shows in a weekend and then go discuss it online.
No.39642
So the live-action remake is shit? Not surprised. You couldn't pay me to watch it. All live-action adaptations of animation are fucking garbage. It boggles my mind that they continue to get made. It's an abomination. Every single dime spent on them should be put towards actual animation. The fact that this slop exists is an absolute condemnation of the "free market".
No.39643
>>39639>5 minutes in and it screams hack writinghollywood uses chatGPT ever since the writer's strike
No.39644
>>39643Honestly writing on most shows has always been shit, you can't expect people to care when they work on a show they can tell will be garbage.
No.39645
>>39642You can blame capitalism for a lot, and certainly part of this. However, there is some genuine stigma towards animation as "for kids" that keeps a solid chunk of people from watching it. I noticed in this adaptation and the One Piece one that they make a point of showing a graphically violent death within the first few minutes to drive home "this ain't your kiddie [show]!" There's some weird anxiety about being seen as immature that seems to drive this.
No.39646
I'm gonna watch the original cartoon after doing this seris. I'm 25 minutes into 1st episode and it is very watered down show.
I get the Game of Thrones speech because they butchered the storytelling by making the plotpoints obvious description scenes at the same time gritty action scenes were added.
Gyato's skeleton is much more powerful than him getting blasted in a Dragon Ball game fight with a main antagonist.
No.39647
>>39646(me)
Also there's no way the Fire Nation could genocide the Air Nomads if they were all at the same location as per the show's comet festival. It's asking for a siege with all the powerful benders at a site they know well.
No.39653
>>39631tl;dr 2/10 It's the movie but with better acting and less dour visuals. Weirdly, the adult actors are weak compared to the kids.
>"DRINK SOME JASMINE TEA" Iroh said calmly.storytelling is ass
>every single dialogue feels like a speedrun, the characters even talk weirdly fast>chronological order removes most of the intrigue (and wastes time telling the characters what the audience just saw)>depicting the genocide as an epic setpiece battle sequence is beyond tasteless and I'm guessing had something to do with the creators bailing>Sozin goes out of his way to solo Gyatso personally for no reason>Sokka isn't a male chauvinist - instead of Katara's angry bending causing them to find Aang it just happens randomly>Sokka isn't the only man or male adolescent in the village, so his motivation and character moments don't make sense (why does he stand up to Zuko by himself? he was talking to another water tribe guy a second ago)>"He is The Last Airbender" (Gran Gran)>"You are the Avatar" (Gran Gran, a minute later)>pathos of being the last airbender completely glossed overbending is rough
>master benders hitting each other with hand-to-hand and weapons (including firebenders during Sozin's comet)>slow motion earthbending, like the movie>waterbending looks like 2000s era CGI>firebending looks like skyrim spells>Sozin's comet doesn't make any noticeable difference>Sozin gets a fiery aura like a shounen character but it's live action so it looks like he accidentally caught fire for a second>Aang flies like Zaheer without the glider several times, but he kinda forgot this ability when a later scene requires him to get knocked out of the air>Aang can use airbending to sneakily pickpocket people without large gusts of wind, like it's telekinesis>Katara goes from only bending a ball of water to bending a giant water spout in the span of maybe an hour in universe (would have made more sense if they kept the angry bending scene) No.39654
>>39653No wonder Bryke left the project.
I hope the ATLA movie and third Avatar series aren't total ass. I would even accept Korra tier at this point.
No.39691
>>13655One thing the show could do better is foreshadowing the Lion Turtle power early on the series. But I doubt they would make it.
No.39692
>>39657After having seen the first 2 episodes I gotta say no chance I will watch the rest. I don't want to see how bad they do everything else. The original show has roughly the same season length anyway (8 hours).
From what I heard they not only got rid of Jeong Jeong and Aang failing at firebending, but he never even waterbends either in the whole season? Apparently the "master all four elements" plot simply isn't mentioned. Instead he just has to "save the world" and it's never explained what that means. They even point this out in the second episode: Suki asks Sokka what their plan is, and he doesn't have an answer (it's played as a joke that he's dumb/awkward). It's like the writers of the show only read a summary of the story.
Btw it's a huge missed opportunity to change as much as the live action does and not have Suki join Team Avatar immediately. IIRC the creators even said that was a mistake in the original. She would help round out the main cast and give the show a lot more to work with, making Sokka feel like less of a 5th wheel (or for the live action to help him carry the show). It's even more egregious in this version since she tells Sokka that after meeting him she wants to go see the world (but not with him for some reason).
>>39691Lion turtle statues/figures appear multiple times throughout the show, at least once a season.
>non-canon pilot episode (picrel)>B1E09 the pirates have a lion turtle statuette>B2E10 Aang finds a picture in Wan Shi Tong's library and identifies it at a lion turtle>B3E04 Piandao has a lion turtle statue in his gardenIt's a shame they didn't do any more than that, but it is a neat trick that a seemingly inconsequential background detail ends up being a very important and entity.
The energy bending plot device is what should have had more setup. The Guru does some slight foreshadowing about the connection to cosmic energy, but not as much as was warranted. The part where he says the separation between the elements is an illusion could have been followed up with something pointing towards the lion turtle's line about "We bent not the elements, but the energy within ourselves." Juxtaposing the speech with Toph metalbending could have helped distract from the greater implications to avoid giving the game away.
No.39699
>>39692that sequence towards the end of season 2 is so good. with toph discovering metal bending while aang talks to the guru. i wanna watch the cartoon again now lol.
also, in the episode bitter work, iroh's lesson to zuko could be interpreted as another subtle reference to an underlying principle of all bending.
No.39705
>>39692>Lion turtle statues/figures appear multiple times throughout the show That's not what foreshadowing is, and the anon specified the POWER of the Lion Turtle, a.k.a Energy Bending.
>it is a neat trick that a seemingly inconsequential background detail ends up being a very important and entity. Every mangaka and animator worth their salt does this, One Piece especially.
>The energy bending plot device is what should have had more setup. That's what the anon said.
>The Guru does some slight foreshadowing about the connection to cosmic energy Fair point, but it's not tied at all to the Lion-Turtle and is more about internal, metaphorical energy of feeling/emotion rather than literal tangible energy. Going by the Guru's description, how did Aang close pathways of anger, sadness, attachment etc on Ozai?
>Juxtaposing the speech with Toph metalbending could have helped distract from the greater implications to avoid giving the game away Aye, it would be an interesting bit of story-economy too.
Also they never explored the idea that if energy bending can TAKE bending from benders, that it could GIVE bending to non-benders, pic rel.
No.39711
>>39696Man they're really cramming stuff together huh. You could say it's economical but it just makes the world feel smaller when you reduce the number of places where things happen.
>>39698The live action seems to hate fun. Aang isn't fun. Air Nomads weren't fun. None of the kids are fun. Bumi can be fun since he's a side character, but since he's fun he has to suck I guess.
But idk maybe they want a reason for Aang not to go back to Omashu to try to get Bumi to teach him earthbending. Not that he is trying to learn waterbending this season…
>>39699>also, in the episode bitter work, iroh's lesson to zuko could be interpreted as another subtle reference to an underlying principle of all bending.Yeah that's another moment where they could have done something to foreshadow energybending more. Iroh would also be an appropriate character to know that information since he traveled in the spirit world.
>>39705>they meant the power not the lion turtle itselfI know, that's why I mentioned them separately. I think too many people treat the lion turtle itself as an asspull when it was almost certainly planned from the start, just kept too close to the chest.
>Fair point, but it's not tied at all to the Lion-Turtle and is more about internal, metaphorical energy of feeling/emotion rather than literal tangible energy.Well in this world emotions and literal physical power are connected so it would be easy to work from that here. What Aang is doing with the Guru is the kind of inner psychological/spiritual manipulation the lion turtle says Aang has to do with Ozai. Honestly if they just put that scene earlier instead of doing it in flashback during the fight, then the audience would have a better understanding of what was going on and how Aang could win. They just wanted to do a twist I guess. It would also no longer be such a one-two punch with the pointy rock.
>Going by the Guru's description, how did Aang close pathways of anger, sadness, attachment etc on Ozai?This would also have been more interesting way of handling it. They could have cut some of the battle and had Aang subdue Ozai faster, or else had battle dialogue between them that set up the energy bending. And then they could have had some inside the mind bit where Aang bullies Ozai into losing his bending. Maybe he'd show him all his failures and hypocrisies or something like that to block up his chakras. He did seem to actually remove his bending though, not just make him too weak to use it or block it like Amon does, so whatever that involves would probably have to change him more fundamentally.
>Also they never explored the idea that if energy bending can TAKE bending from benders, that it could GIVE bending to non-benders, pic rel.The way it works isn't clear, but it would be interesting to explore. The Avatar Wan story seems to suggest lion turtles can give and take bending at will and that it's potentially some kind of limited resource. It would have made for a good plot for a season of Korra. There are any number of reasons someone would be interested in figuring out how to grant or remove bending. Like anybody operating those high security prisons for the Red Lotus could block their bending and keep them in normal prisons. Or industrialists like Varrick would want more workers who could use bending to power machines. All sorts of conflicts could arise from the Bending Question if who is or isn't a bender is suddenly fluid.
No.39713
>>39711>They just wanted to do a twist I guess. It would also no longer be such a one-two punch with the pointy rock. Yep. Additionally, as I argued earlier in the thread, energy-bending, regardless of whether or not it was actually planned and attempted to be foreshadowed, is a cop-out. It immediately kills the stakes because it essentially magicks away Aangs need to make a choice between sacrificing his principles and finally own the destiny of being the Avatar by killing Ozai and ending the war, saving millions of lives OR to stick to his principles and let Ozai live and in so doing damn the world.
Energy Bending is never demonstrated or hinted at being something that could be used the way Aang did against Ozai, so it feels like a cop-out. Sure Aang beat him and let him live, but again, if it wasn't for the Energy-Bending Deus Ex Machina, that choice to let him live would easily have caused problems down the line, even with Ozai powerless this happened in the comics, where zealots tried to assassinate Zuko over his perceived betrayal of the Fire Nation, and if Ozai still had his bending, then he would be even more of a beacon for violent zealots that would seek to place him back on the throne. We have centuries of Asian and European history where spared monarchs would return or attempt to return to power in such manner.
This doesn't mean Energy-Bending is impossible to integrate into the story, if Guru talked more about it and if the Lion Turtle spoke with Aang and explained the true secrets of the Chakras and how it isn't limited to just opening them within yourself, then it would be the final piece of the puzzle for Aang. Hell, tie it in with the bending-disabling, pressure-point techniques of Ty-Lee and we have something.
>They could have cut some of the battle and had Aang subdue Ozai faster, or else had battle dialogue between them that set up the energy bending. The battle was an appropriate length IMO, it set up Ozai being a truly powerful opponent that Aang could not just subdue normally, and that if it was only about combat, Aang could only beat him by taking lethal measures. Here is where my above statement about Energy Bending comes in - Aang would temporarily disable Ozai's pathways with Ty-Lee's techniques (we could have some set up with Aang learning this earlier in the show after encounters with Ty-Lee would make her techniques of interest to Aang) and then have him do the energy-bending thing.
We see Aang struggle visually with the whole red and blue light show, but we don't see what's going on, it's like a more indirect DBZ beam-struggle, literally willpower vs willpower.
Instead, going with how the Chakras are opened/closed relative to internal emotions, have us see into Aang's mind, with him essentially battling Ozai's soul with his own and slowly closing each chakra, until Ozai is powerless.
Man, being a writer makes thinking of these ideas so fun.
>The Avatar Wan story seems to suggest lion turtles can give and take bending at will and that it's potentially some kind of limited resource. The problem is that this kinda breaks the lore, earth-bending is tied to both culture and animals (badger mole) and the same applies to all bending, and the source of bending's power comes from nature; The Sun, the Moon and Sea, The Earth, The Wind and Air. This is another reason energy bending ought to be more tied to the Chakras concretely. But that's just a nitpick of mine.
>There are any number of reasons someone would be interested in figuring out how to grant or remove bending. Like anybody operating those high security prisons for the Red Lotus could block their bending and keep them in normal prisons. Or industrialists like Varrick would want more workers who could use bending to power machines. All sorts of conflicts could arise from the Bending Question if who is or isn't a bender is suddenly fluid. Absolutely, its also an excellent allegory for material development/progress, as illiterate peasants and feudal heirarhcies are up-ended by the fact that all men are able to be equal in ability, equally empowered than equally depowered like Amon wished, that could even be an end lesson and thought for Korra - Amon would be an ordinary, non-bending man that learned to take bending, and Korra would instead seek to give everyone the gift of bending, which would lead into the Red Lotus, as the moral question of who deserves to keep bending comes up and provides an interesting moral dilemma.
No.39722
>>39721Isn't this stuff completely inaccurate though?…
No.39727
>>39723Who's even expected it to be good? It should have died in obscurity but NOOOOOO, we have to hate watch it which only encourages them.
I honestly wish people just stopped talking about Netflix adaptations. They live in that parasitic relationship where the more people talk about them the more popular they become.
No.39728
>>39721Try putting the original opening through it.
No.39741
if the four nations used to live in harmony before the events of atla, how do you imagine the fire nation society was driven to it's proto-fascist state? it was probably always inclined towards it because of it's monarchic social organization. this is probably one of those things that it's better not to think too much about but, y'know, if you had to write that development
No.39749
>>39741That's kind of in the show. Fire Lord Sozin thought the Fire Nation was superior to everyone else and it was their right to conquer. Roku disagrees and Sozin is left bitter and turns even more violent. This is given as the motivation, but there's also the material fact that they do have more advanced technology. Firebending would be very useful in metallurgy and in powering steam engines. Since earthbenders can't bend metal (yet) that gives them a pretty strong advantage.
One wonders if waterbenders would be able to bend steam directly, since they can bend ice into water and vice versa. They'd have to be able to build steam engines first to test that, however. Airbenders could also bend turbines directly with air at any temperature, but the kinetic energy seems a lot lower than the thermal energy a firebender or waterbender could produce. Fire on the other hand will spread and generate heat without any continued bending, and it can both power and help build the machines, so there may just be a natural advantage there when it comes to industrialization.
No.39750
>>39741Seeing as the first war was against the Earth Kingdom, and they were so heavily focused on industrialization, it was probably an imperialist drive for resources needed to build up their industrial base. One thing that Korra does follow through on is that the Fire Nation becomes basically the capitalist heart of the world after the war, being the most advanced nation by a long mile and having many fire nation nationals be big capitalists.
No.39752
>>39750The episode (s1e06) with the floating earthbender prison revolves around a town where the Fire Nation has Earth citizens doing forced labor mining coal to fuel the navy's ships (also taking tribute money). There are probably other examples.
No.39754
>>39727The problem isn't just Netflix, Disney has been pumping out shitty live action remakes too. That "realistic" soulless Lion King remake made 1.6 billion dollars.
No.39787
>>39727I put it on, turn down the volume and then go do something else. Did the same with Rings of Power. I want to give terrible shows on streaming sites as much watch time as I can so they produce more and more slop.
You can't prevent the slop bubble, you can only accelerate its glorious burst.
No.39788
>>37542NTA but while I don't like culture war I'd probably have questions to the casting of Mulan too if it wasn't Asian. I mean, it's set in ancient China, come on. It just wouldn't make any sense.
No.39789
>>9124>Zuko removes his shirtSasuke: "Finally, a worthy opponent."
No.39798
>>39787Gulag-tier behavior.
No.39801
>>39788Should mushu have been recast
No.39802
>>39788They're both shitty cashgrabs regardless of the Ethnic Fidelity IndexTM of the cast.
No.39808
>>39801Lol, racial casting in cartoons doesn't matter, the VA of Samurai Jack is black and nobody bats an eye. Basically, you can hire whomever you want here, even an ethnically diverse voice cast, I genuinely do not care.
>>39802That's fair. I'd still bash these movies for that obviously.
No.39809
should a new and gritty atla remake reconsider the quest goal of defeating the firelord? obviously killing or taking away the bending of just the firelord would not be enough to end the fire nations offensive war realistically (maybe the concern over realism is ridiculous considering it's a fantasy show). if the fire nation society is supremacist shouldn't the story resolution aim to dismantle it's hierarchical structure? and then it would also have to do the same for the earth kingdom.
No.39835
>>39809It would be based for Zuko to have a redemption arc and a republican ideology that comes from it, but it steps way too far out of fantasy tropes, Korra tried with depicting modern politics in a fantasy setting and it was disastrous
No.39836
>>39809I think some of the comics cover the Fire Nation politics after Zuko gets the throne. Stopping the invasion is the main priority and once they do that and secure the throne it's kind of easy to assume they won. It's an absolute monarchy / dictatorship and the main opposition has not just been neutralized but actually humiliated. One of the angles rarely considered is that Aang killing Ozai could martyr him. Taking his bending is like cuckolding him instead and really embarrasses the idea of firebender supremacy more than simply losing to the Avatar (who can also bend fire).
No.39837
>>39809You can also spin it as a sibling conflict with Azula becoming the face for the imperialists within the Fire Nation, who would want to depose Zuko.
No.39877
>>39788Mulan is an Ancient Chinese story taking place in a real place. This is a fictional fucking world INSPIRED by Asian cultures but not purely beholden to them. Also see
>>37574 and pic rel.
It's not like we have a large number of willing Inuit actors jumping at the chance to play a character in a show they probably have never heard of.
No.39884
>>39835>Korra tried with depicting modern politics in a fantasy setting and it was disastrousKorra failed because it wasn't based in any materialist progression of society following the end of the war and the new balance founded. Moreover the ideologies it attempted to depict were either strawmen caricatures or were so compelling that they had to sabotage them.
Amon had a major point and an interesting moral conflict about power inequality, so they made him a lying liar who lies, and Kuvira was a based leader whose direction united the collective might of the Earth Kingdom and made it rapidly catch up, after decades of the Earth Queen's Decadence and the consequences of Zaheer's obsession with "Chaos", so they decided to make her suddenly go crazy and decide to go from a rational, organized leader with the support of her people, into a maniac that builds pointless giant mecha and go fight the Avatar she already defeated and sent packing.
Zaheer was a fucking nutback and The fanfic Dark-Avatar guy (I can't even remember his dumb name) was a caricature of spirituality that also had a point (in the universe of Avatar Spirits are tangibly real) and so they made him a power-crazy guy who really just wanted to become the Lucifer to Korra's Jesus, which is essentially a shoving in of Judeo-Christian story-telling in a setting based on East-Asian religions and philosophies.
Have Amon be for real and not a bender of any kind except Energy Bending (mentioned at the end of my post
>>39713 ). Have Korra defeat him not just in combat, but ideologically, pointing out the flaws in his argument and in his defeat, learning as an Avatar that the problem which created Amon and the Equalists is something for the balance keeping Avatar, to address. You could even have the jaded Amon deciding to entrust this to her.
Thus maybe Korra might decide to give EVERYONE bending abilities as the opposite of Amon's method of equalization. This would leading us to a conundrum with Zaheer, and the question of how can one person deserve power while another does not and the freedom to choose.
Finally Kuvira would be the final "villain" that turns out to not be a villain at all, and it is in fact the machinations of bourgs and petty liberals like Suyin Bei Fong that are the true enemy; preaching democracy and freedom, yet hypocritically trying to reinstate the monarchy of the Earth Kingdom. So Kuvira and Korra work together to create stability, equality and freedom.
Hell if we HAVE to have a yuri ship for representation, then Kuvira/Korra would actually work in this case, and just eliminate any of the teen drama for most of the show, just some early on stuff of her dating Bolin and Mako, realizing they were better as friends and staying as a group and then with Kuvira, as they work together they find a connection. I'm not a fan of Yuri ships but hell, that would work well, it would be quite interesting even to myself to see develop naturally, especially it breaks the mold most yuri ships have, where there is a dominant and submissive; both are strong-headed women who are tomboyish.
Honestly I oughta just write a fanfic for this or something, just to make KorrAsami shippers Reee.
No.39885
>>39754>That "realistic" soulless Lion King remake made 1.6 billion dollars.To be fair this only worked because of
A) Disney hype allowing for huge pre-sale tickets and the dominance of Disney itself. On top of that people that grew up on the original cartoons were nostalgic for their stories and probably watched it to give it a chance. Oh and of course the Chinese Market. This is becoming no longer the case; The Little Mermaid, Mulan, Marvel Phase 4 (or 5 or whatever it is at now) and other such properties have been failing consistently at box office because the general population have picked up the pattern. Netflix is still holding on because of 2 reasons
A) It produces or hosts thousands of TV-Shows Past and New for viewers, so people can easily watch most of what they want.
B) For every soon-to-be-forgotten bomb, Netflix has made some good movies and series that have caught attention. After Shyamylan's failure, the hype for a good Avatar live action was certainly there and the trailer looked good, so it got people invested, but as we see here, its clearly not as good as the series for a variety of practical and writing reasons and so viewership is going down. Netflix probably only tried this because of the unexpected success of the One Piece Live Action.
>>39723 >Watching E-Drama Not even bothering.
>>39654 Bryke fucked up just as bad with Korra. Like Ridley Scott with Alien, it wasn't just Bryke that made ATLA so good, Aaron Ehaz and many other writers contributed a lot in reigning in bad takes, just as O'Bannon did for Alien.
>>39642>All live-action adaptations of animation are fucking garbageNot necessarily, the main fault of Live Action adaptations is the fact that the people creating them either have limited budgets, poor vision or poor direction or any combination of that, causing them to fail. The original Live Action Death Note or FMA were decent but had flaws that hindered them.
It's easier to do live action stories with more grounded characters and settings, that's why Rourouni Kenshin's Live Action films worked even though they didn't quite follow the original anime's story.
No.39889
>>39885>Not necessarily, the main fault of Live Action adaptations is the fact that the people creating them either have limited budgets, poor vision or poor direction or any combination of that, causing them to fail.I think a really big problem is not having a good understanding of
both mediums and deliberately making changes to play to the strengths of the one you're adapting to. Also there's a tendency to not create something that can stand on its own. If you write from scratch it's easier to keep track of what information you have to convey to an audience. If you're working from something that already exists then you have to keep in your head everything that the original conveys and figure out what part of that you need to preserve in the adaptation. An audience coming in blind should still get at the very least a complete story. Too many of these live action adaptations don't have that and basically function as supplemental material to the original.
>>39875It's less the peeping itself and more that he catches her doing it and she just keeps standing there ogling him mouth agape for like 15 seconds. And then later in the episode she states outright that she thinks he's hot because he's foreign.
>>39877>It's not like we have a large number of willing Inuit actors jumping at the chance to play a character in a show they probably have never heard of.Eh that's not true. There's plenty of people out there who are looking for acting work. The issue is that there's kind of a vicious cycle where people who don't fit the "traditional" expectations are less likely to get work, which means they are less likely to get experience and be considered less suitable.
The real issue for this particular show is that it's looking for a fairly large overall cast where:
(1) most actors need to be able to do martial arts AND acting, and key characters need to be good at martial arts acting (different and more difficult than either one separately)
(2) about half of them are children with the necessary skills (or who can learn)
(3) they at least approximate an ethnicity which is a minority in the countries where the show is produced
Any one of these 3 factors narrows down the pool. All 3 at once makes it even smaller. That said, it's entirely possible to do if you actually invest in the casting process. The actors aren't even the problem (except maybe Katara), it's that they got bad direction. You can tell they're not sure what they're supposed to be feeling in many/most scenes. They also seem to be relying too much on having the kids mimic a performance they're given by an adult instead of figuring out for themselves how to do the scene.
No.39890
>>39877>This is a fictional fucking world INSPIRED by Asian cultures but not purely beholden to them.This is an argument of dubious weight since the Asian influences are pretty heavy, including names and languages. Neither do they look light-skinned either.
No.40012
>>39893>>39894Never reached her season but seems based
No.40017
>>40014Allegedly Katara's actor was cast for being some up and comer with prior credits (and an award).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KiawentiioShe also had an EP so maybe they were hoping to have her do music for the show?
No.40029
Just an opinion, but would using science to extract bending from people be too sci-fi for a fantasy adaptation of early 20th century Americana? I heard the showrunners originally wanted Asami to be a villain, and i sort of love the idea of her being a sort of Lex Luthor to Avatar Korra's superman; Asami having delusions of grandeur and using Korra and the equalists to develop a sort of bending formula in order to monopolize bending for profit. I had brainstormed a rewrite for s1 and 2 with these ideas in mind. If anyone's interested i could post it.
No.40036
>>40029Building on your superhero analogy it would fit the setting better to try to invent a bending super serum a la Captain America. Maybe you make this by harvesting spirits, which adds the environmentalist/spiritualism layer. It also leads into the season 2 plot with the spirits wilding out and gives Unalaq something organic to react to instead of some 10000 year prophecy asspull.
No.40040
>>40036>Maybe you make this by harvesting spiritsThat's exactly what i was thinking lol. The initial trials on low level gangsters captured by the Equalists prove fatal for both the extractee and the recipient. When the equalists capture and extract Korra's energy and test it, not only does she survive, but the resulting serum works. Not knowing the reason but understanding the avatar possesses spiritual energy unlike typical benders, they begin capturing spirits from the material plane. The resulting experiments lead to a perfected "bending formula".
No.40041
>>40029The idea I had for the next Avatar series involved the Republic government using spirits as an energy source to usher in a cyberpunk future.
No.40042
>>40040Season 3 doesn't have the Red Lotus at all. Instead it's some renegade Air Acolytes capturing spirits to restore their airbending and perverting the Air Nomad values of harmony with the spirits. Korra and Tenzin have to stop them but also deal with how the ideology has been warped and potentially try to search for another option for restoring bending. Work in Toph in the Banyon Grove by having the bending capability come from some spiritual energy that you can connect to there or in the spirit world (this is what was being harvested from the spirits).
No.40044
>>40042I was actually having a hard time even trying to incorporate the show's version of the red lotus into my hypothetical s3. Probably would be a better idea to just omit them entirely. I'll post my rewrite when i get home.
No.40045
>>40044They don't fit with the larger story at all, at least as they were originally written. If you want them to relate to the actual story that's already unfolding, then have them split off the White Lotus during the present, trying to RETVRN to the roots of the organization as a secret society. Maybe they think Korra is fumbling her job and they need to take matters into their own hands. Maybe they just don't like the White Lotus being too big and public.
Maybe they are still political radicals who came to the conclusion from their scholarship that some kind of revolution is needed and have a conflict with the avatar for the same basic reason of revolution vs harmony. That's still a fine concept, it was just executed poorly. Even the bit about ending the Avatar cycle could be done well.
No.40051
>>40044 (me)
Ok here's my sort of write-up/brainstorm of a Korra s1/2 with the bending serum premise.
For starters, I would go all in with bending ability and genetics being tied to nature and spirituality. With the industrial revolution, bending became rarer, and those born with it became weaker than those born in the past as mankind's relationship with nature became more and more extractive. This being a problem society is well aware of, Hiroshi Sato, still being an equalist in secret, is working with them to create a method of "extracting" and redistributing bending among the populace with a set of devices of Asami's design (driving home the Luthor parallel of her both being super-smart and having delusions of grandeur, as well as the communist influences of the equalists wanting equity for all), rather than simply super-chi blocking it out of existence (that technique never made sense to me tbh). The initial trials fail, as while they do successfully find a means to extract it, the raw bending energy would cause horrible disfigurement/death in those that use it, as well as kill the bender (usually bending gangsters kidnapped for experimentation) it was extracted from. Amon and his followers steal the tech and defect anyway, modifying it and using it much like in canon to harmlessly take away bending, with plans to destroy bending altogether, as they truly believe the world would be better off without it. When Asami befriends Mako after learning of the Avatar being the Fire Ferret's replacement team member, this is eventually revealed much later on to be part of her larger plan to extract the Avatar's bending energy and study/test it to see the difference between raw bending energy and the Avatar's obviously unique bending energy. When Amon eventually accomplishes this, Asami has the serum stolen and tested in secret, finding that it in fact works. This will ultimately lead up to the reveal of the Avatar spirit being a fusion of one of the most powerful spirits and a human long ago. The spirit plot of season 2 would begin with Future Industries capturing and experimenting on spirits in the material plane, as Asami understands that the Avatar possesses spiritual energy not found in typical benders, leading to a plethora of spirit attacks on humans. Korra, traveling with Team Avatar and Tenzin to re-learn all the elements from the various natural teachers (i totally stole this idea haha), also begins encountering these spirit attacks. Upon her arrival to the South Pole, Korra would eventually learn from Unalaq that the spirits are angry at humanity for their actions in perverting the balance of the world. He eventually tells Korra the true origin of the Avatar instead of it being a flahsback out of nowhere, himself learning it from Wan Shi Tong's library. Unalaq's ultimate goal in S2 will be to extract the Yin spirit Raava from Korra and reunite it with the Yang spirit Vaatu, rather than fusing with Vaatu himself. In Unalaq's view, the world was permanently thrown out of balance when these two separated, with him colonizing the South partly being to accomplish this goal by controlling both spirit portals, as well as his internal prejudice against them for neglecting the spiritual world(idk much about this plot I've only watched s2 like twice, feel free to add to this/critique it). The reason for this separation, via records kept within Wan Shi Tong's Library, being that Vaatu viewed the lion turtles' actions to be a great betrayal. In Vaatu's mind, humanity could not be trusted with bending as he viewed them as lesser than spirit-kind in every way, via the actions of some of the first Fire and Earthbenders waging war with spirits and eachother, while Raava favored humanity for their ingenuity and harmony, as displayed with the first Air and Waterbenders working with and thriving amongst the spirits and nature. This schism would ultimately lead to the separation of these two great spirits and plunge the world into the first great war, with Vaatu rallying an army of spirits to his cause and Raava, being powerful enough, gathers up the 4 elements and fuses herself with a progidy firebender (Wan) to galvanize the population of human benders to fight back. Humanity ultimately wins out, and the Avatar, with help of the excess of spiritual energy via Harmonic Convergence, seals the spirit portals, effectively banishing Vaatu and the majority of spirits to the spirit half of the world, forever separating the two, with the Avatar, in a compromise, vowing to be the bridge between these two worlds. Vaatu accepting this, would vow to return during the next Harmonic Convergence and eradicate humanity if the Avatar failed in their role. After Unalaq sacrifices himself to pacify Vaatu, Korra would ultimately convince Vaatu that the only way to accomplish harmony would be to reunite Raava and Vaatu within herself and end the separation of the two worlds, to which Vaatu agrees, revealing him to having missed Raava and learning from various spirits 10,000 years worth of deeds and actions Vaatu thought impossible of humanity. This reunification via Harmonic Convergence could be what brings back the Air Benders, rather than Harmonic Convergence itself. Meanwhile, Asami, with the help of the newly acquired Varrick Global Industries, begins to take advantage of both the influx of new airbenders, as well as free access to the spirit world, to begin plans to mass produce more potent bending serums for use for the elites of society by capturing and experimenting on even more spirits, setting up an audience with the Earth Queen on the sale of these serums for military use.
Adding on to this I actually don't mind the idea of bending coming from lion turtles, themselves being physical embodiments of the elements they represent. There's no reason they couldn't have found a way to bend the energy these elements came from with various animals (badgermoles, skybison, etc) being the original recipients of these gifts. I like the idea of early humans taking sanctuary atop lion turtles and climbing down from them as their intelligence was allowed to develop without threat from natural predators, with the lion turtles imparting bending upon them as a sort of gift for their symbiosis. But yeah, I honestly like the idea of bending as an allegory for wealth and wished they leaned more into that premise as others have pointed out.
No.40152
It would be cool for some Air Nomads to survive the genocide, since they were spread all over the world. Aang didn't have time to find them in canon but by the end I think it would be fitting for him to meet remnants that could have important part in alternate season 4/Korra.
No.40185
Luumaa's Avatar map with some changes to canon. The comments on the post discuss the obvious language differences between nations, and within them there would be many dialects.
The Gaang would have to rely much more on locals helping them if the language barrier is rough. For wolrdbuilding this could expand the opposition inside Fire Nation that would shelter the Avatar and explore more insurrectionary groups like Jet's.
I imagine the Ba Sing Se Earth dialect would've been the standart lingua franca alongside Fire Nation's capital dialect. Due to proximity between the Southern Air Temple and the South Water People I think Aang could've guessed what Katara and Sokka were saying but it would be like an Spanish speaker trying to understand French.
Could we try building a language map for ATLA?
https://www.deviantart.com/luumaa/art/Avatar-World-Map-WIP-918836747 No.40186
>>>40185 (me)
Ba Sing Se dialect being an Earth Nation language variant, likewise for the Fire Nation.
No.40187
>>40185Now that I think about it learning the most widespread languages would be an obligation for the Avatar, so Aang could've easily understood Katara and Sokka, Zuko and Suki. Although his speech would be archaic.
No.40189
>>40185For scripts I think an ideographical system would surge in the Earth Kingdom and spread everywhere else, with simplifications and stylisations akin to hiragana and katakana being done in the Water Tribes and plenty surging everywhere in Earth Kingdom political centers that are distant from Ba Sing Se's rule.
The Fire Nation could have adopted a hangul-like script in its industrialization phase to distinguise itself from the Earth Kingdom, whom they begin to regard as inferior.
Presuming the Fire Nation language being similar to Japanese I can try to make a hangul-esque script for it, just substituting kana for made-up hangul. It would be a little more compact since it's mostly syllables.
No.40190
>>>40185
Although Water tribes are native inspired I think they would differ in language from the Air Nomads, but there would be a lot of common words due to proximity.
No.40214
>>40185Aang canonically traveled through a lot of the world so we can probably assume he's a borderline polyglot. Sokka and Katara would only speak the language of the Water Tribe (with probably diverged somewhat into Northern and Southern dialects during the war). Maybe they also knew some of the Fire Nation's colonial language. Which could also be a sort of lingua franca spoken by most of the characters encountered in the story.
The only groups that would pose much of a challenge for the group to communicate with would be the pretty isolated ones, like the foggy swamp people and the sand benders.
The writing in the show uses mostly Traditional Chinese characters. They had a guy on staff who was in charge of checking the art so it was accurate to the language.
https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Writing_in_the_World_of_Avatar<The written Chinese content in Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra was provided by cultural consultant Dr. Siu-Leung Lee. He handled all of the translation and calligraphy for both shows, including the calligraphy for the logo of the former. His vast knowledge of various styles of calligraphy throughout China's history added a culturally grounding component to the show. While most of the Chinese used was classical Chinese, Lee used his deep knowledge of archaic Chinese for ancient texts about spirits or elements. No.40219
>>40186 >>40190 >>40192 You need to learn how to link your posts properly, m8, three ">" symbols will kill the linking.
>>40185A map would be feasible but
language is not, at least not one close to canon, because we never properly see the symbols, writing or meaning of said writing never mind I forgot about what
>>40214 mentions
>>40152Well if Aang found Lemurs and Sky Bison (as stated in Legend of Korra), so why not hidden air-benders?
>>40154 While this is a possible theory, the Air Nomads are also sort of like the Jedi, wherein peak monk status is when you completely drop all attachment with the world as Guru Pathik says on opening the final Chakra and as Aang confirms when he talks with Yangchen about finding a solution with Ozai. Meaning romantic and lustful attachments would probably be discouraged, and outside relations would be frowned upon too. Considering how isolated the temple's are, it suggests an insular society. Thus it is unlikely there are many carriers of Air-bender bloodlines left. However I can't discount air-bender descendants unaware of their ability.
While Ty-Lee does have a similar fighting style in terms of how defensive, acrobatic and mobile it is, the styles are different. Aang's is based on Baguazhang which has a relation to the Bagua / 8 Trigrams, something that the Avatar's idea of balance ties to heavily.
Ty-Lee uses Crane Fist which strikes vulnerable points on the body like a crane's beak and dodges retaliation. Her jumps being absurdly high could be explained by her super-human flexibility and low-end cartoon physics, but Sokka gets pretty good by the end of the show and never does similar, so I'll give that. Her physique is certainly similar to Aang's too.
Linking Ty-Lee's pressure-point targeting and Aang's relation to the Bagua and his culture's method of unlocking Chakras could be the grounds for Energy Bending as I and another anon discussed earlier ITT
>>39713 (You) and
>>27724 Actually this combination of Aang and Ty-Lee's styles reminds me of the Hyuga Jyukenpo / Gentle Fist to be honest, especially as it is based on the Japanese version of Baguazhang, Hakkeshō combining it with the pressure-point attack method.
No.40221
>>40219>While Ty-Lee does have a similar fighting style in terms of how defensive, acrobatic and mobile it is, the styles are different.That doesn't say anything about her ancestry. Her fighting style doesn't have to have anything to do with airbending for that. The sort of similar acrobatics could still support some airbending though, in the same way that you have non-standard benders using different variations on the martial arts, like Toph or the elemental sub-types.
Air is the easiest element to bend without noticing, and any Air Nomad refugees trying to blend in could specifically look for fighting styles that would favor their tendencies. The chi blocking is certainly more aggressive than airbending, but it's ultimately focused on disarming the opponent instead of doing damage, which definitely seems in line with Air Nomad ideals. I'm partial to the idea of unaware descendants unconsciously doing a little bending after being taught techniques that would allow them to do that.
Another detail that was left out of the theory is that Ty Lee is one of 7 identical sisters, which is almost superhuman. The most documented identical children to be born and live to adulthood is five. If she had Air Nomad ancestors who survived the genocide, maybe somebody used some secret spiritual practice to improve fertility to help repopulate the line lol.
No.40222
>>40221>That doesn't say anything about her ancestryI know, that's my point. Her having a fighting style using similar methods as airbending martial arts isn't proof of heritage.
>Another detail that was left out of the theory is that Ty Lee is one of 7 identical sisters, which is almost superhuman. The most documented identical children to be born and live to adulthood is five. If she had Air Nomad ancestors who survived the genocide, maybe somebody used some secret spiritual practice to improve fertility to help repopulate the line lol.Spiritual repopulation juju… now that sounds like an interesting plot for a prequel series during the 100 year war after the airbenders were wiped out.
No.40253
Aaron Ehasz said on twitter: "Truthfully, there was a moment in time when we all thought we would do a 4th season of #AvatartheLastAirbender. Then along came M. Night…"
https://nitter.poast.org/aaronehasz/status/1113086464512802816?lang=en . He said that in the context of being asked whether a redemption arc was planned for Azula (there was according to him). I find it kinda surprising that there was a fourth season planned but that it was a fourth on top of the third season we did get, rather then a season in between the second and third seasons as we got them. So the poor foreshadowing of spirit bending and the resolution of the 100 years war (within the show) by just removing the fire bending of the Ozaiwere always the plan apparently, which is kinda disappointing tbh. Or maybe I'm being to harsh on a kids show. There are some interpretations of the ending that at least make sense of the ending thematically, namely Big Joel's.
No.40254
>>40253 (me)
I did like the Azula/Ursa/Zuko plot of the comics. My only problem with the comics is that in them Korra is canon. Thankfully Korras spirit world and avatar origins lore doesn't have much bearing on those story lines.
No.40258
>>40253Well book 3 does have a sequel hook with Zuko wanting to find out about his mom. It would help round out the story and act as a proper denouement, but that's not really the style in modern storytelling.
No.40279
Toph inspired me, to go 1 week barefoot everywhere. Yes, even to school. This was one of the weirdest experiences in my life. Unfortunately, our citys are too dirty for barfoot, so I stopped after one week.
No.40289
>>40279You should try using barefoot shoes. Even crocs will make your feet better.
No.40290
>>40279>>40289Do consider that modern pavement isn't really great for your feet and legs. Modern shoes are terrible for a lot of reasons, but the padding does help cushion you from concrete and asphalt. You can go barefoot or minimalist shoes, but ease yourself into it. You need time to adjust and for your feet to toughen up.
No.40295
>>40278The slop never ends
No.40928
>>40919
>LoK is based on 1920s Hong Kong
1) Nope, it's based on 1920s New York, down to the green-tinted Statue of Libert-*cough* I mean Statue of Aang, and the "melting pot of civilization" idea behind Republic City. FFS pic rel is LITERALLY ripped from Central Park NYC.
2) Even if it WAS based on 1920s Hong Kong, it still doesn't make it any better world-building, which wouldn't be as much of an issue if it wasn't for how carefully the material development of the original series' civilizations was explored.
>When you think of a 20th Century Asian do you literally think of a fucking Fu Man Chu caricature
Concern trolling projection, nowhere did I even imply this
>We only know one style of industrial architecture
LOL, LMAO even. Seriously read a book on Urban Planning in different Industrial Countries; China, the USSR, the USA and India for example all had/have different developments of industrial-era architecture. Moreover, considering that - unlike in Colonial Asia - The nations of the Avatar world did not have Anglo-Saxon/European influence, it would develop along different material lines even more so, and more thought could be put into it.
>it's very hard to envision an entirely different way to depict brick homes and metallic structures
Lame excuses. They literally demonstrated architecture and industrial progression taking into account the importance of bending (and how bending itself works) thus the city of Omashu, or the North Pole fortress or Ba-Sing-Se. Metal Bending alone would change the nature of construction (such as more curved architecture, due to less need for welding and riveting), yet we barely see this explored.
>part of their construction is constrained by physic
If we were going solely by physics, Bending would be completely impossible because of a variety of reasons ranging from the Law of Thermodynamics to the way air/gas spreads over distance. Half of the metal bending in the series we see would be impossible because the stresses put on metal being rapidly bent and moved like that would heat it up visibly.
No.40930
>>40919>LoK is based on 1920s Hong Kong lmaololwut
What about Republic City resembles 1920s Hong Kong? I fuckin wish they did that, it would have fit the setting much better.
>>40928It's even got the Brooklyn Bridge lol.
No.40931
>>40928>>it's very hard to envision an entirely different way to depict brick homes and metallic structures >Lame excuses. They literally demonstrated architecture and industrial progression taking into account the importance of bending (and how bending itself works) thus the city of Omashu, or the North Pole fortress or Ba-Sing-Selol they did this with metal bending,
in Korra: Zaofu! which is incidentally not as blatantly western-influenced.
No.40941
>>40931>they did this with metal bending <ZaofuI didn't say they don't have it at all, I said it's barely explored, or done so in a way that ignores material progression. The way metal bending worked in ATLA was that Toph bent the earth remnants within the metals (impurities), which is why when she uses metal bending, it's rough and unfluid. The way we see metal bending in LoK doesn't fit. Zaofu is literally the ONLY example of this seen, while in Republic City or anywhere else this application is more or less non-existent until Kuvira starts actively rebuilding the Earth Kingdom, and again, much of it is squandered.
>>40930 Ignore them, based on post #40929 they're a /pol/fag LARPing as a concern-trolling radlib.
No.40942
>>40941>I didn't say they don't have it at all, I said it's barely exploredI know. I was just saying it was something they had thought about since Zaofu exists. It makes it worse, really. Republic City (bad name too) should have had a mix of features associated with the four nations. The only thing close to this is the fire benders providing electricity. It should have also had a combination of things: big walls like Ba Sing Se or ramps like Omashu and locks like the North Pole. You could have a scene of earthbenders and waterbenders working together to operate the docks to help ships in and out. Something like that.
No.40943
>>40942>it was something they had thought about since Zaofu exists. It makes it worse, really.Yeah, you're right, it does make it worse.
>Republic City (bad name too) Honestly I wonder if that was just a draft placeholder name from an early script that they forgot to change all the way up to production.
>The only thing close to this is the fire benders providing electricity. And even then that doesn't quite work (even if I understand that they were trying to demonstrate industrial applications of bending) since lightning generation was a rare skill that requires internal balance and stability.
> It should have also had a combination of things: big walls like Ba Sing Se or ramps like Omashu and locks like the North Pole. You could have a scene of earthbenders and waterbenders working together to operate the docks to help ships in and out. A sort of Panama/Suez Canal type operation.
Bryke should have just made a new steam-punk show instead of forcing in 1920s America into the Avatar world.
No.40944
I wonder how come there's no oceanic water tribe. Surely water bending and the culture that developed around it would be the most suited to seafaring. So why aren't there any water tribe groups that are based more on Pacific island cutlures? The fire nation having steam powered ships makes sense as an explanation for why they would get overtaken and crushed, so they could be added to the pre-Sozin era. It would also tie into the north and south poles becoming separated.
>>40943>And even then that doesn't quite work (even if I understand that they were trying to demonstrate industrial applications of bending) since lightning generation was a rare skill that requires internal balance and stability. well it
was but then Korra threw all that kind of stuff out the window
>A sort of Panama/Suez Canal type operation. Yeah, and putting the city in a location like that would make more sense than a natural harbor that nobody ever thought to build a city in for the last 10000 years. If the combination of bending styles allowed them to build new infrastructure it would create new opportunities for urban development, and a canal city would represent an important place for trade and transit that would fit very well with what the city was supposed to be about.
No.40945
>>40944>why aren't there any water tribe groups that are based more on Pacific island cutlures? Because Pacific Island Cultures are already a different cultural group, separate from Asia and more closely related to South American cultures, and Avatar's world was created around the specific basis of Asian cultures other than Japan. That being said, it would make sense for there to be a tropical Water-tribe that would be like the Polynesians or Maori.
>it was but then Korra threw all that kind of stuff out the window Like a lot of things in the show tbh
>If the combination of bending styles allowed them to build new infrastructure it would create new opportunities for urban development, and a canal city would represent an important place for trade and transit that would fit very well with what the city was supposed to be about. Exactly, it would essentially allow for a low-level sort of terraforming.
No.40947
>>40946 >There are multiple cultural influences present that are from the Americas, most prominently the water tribe being based on the Inuit Fair enough, although the Inuit aren't American only though and are closer to Asians ethnically.
>he cactus juice is also based on the peyote cactus Gonna be honest, I don't think it was that deep in their thinking process, I think they just wanted a goofy hallucination scene with Sokka and referenced something they heard about, it has little to do with the Peyote ritual. The barrel Cactus is stereotypical in appearance, so I don't know about it.
>Sokka's boomerang, which comes from Australia Shit, good point, and if I remember correctly the Aborigine's also have hallucinogenic plants (I may be wrong, because it's been a long time).
It's ironic that the Cameron Avatar film was also supposed to have a scene with Ayahuasca hallucinations
>>36581 Also as a side note, I wonder what Toph would 'see'/do if she had drank the Cactus like Sokka?
No.40948
>>40947>and if I remember correctly the Aborigine's also have hallucinogenic plants (I may be wrong, because it's been a long time). Everybody has hallucinogenic plants/fungi. Hallucinogenic cactus is fairly specific though. The visions the gaang has in the foggy swamp are implied to be a product of the swamp's unique plant life (one of the few things Korra expands on).
As far as water tribe diversity goes, there's also the foggy swamp tribe, which seems to be based more on various uncontacted tribes than anything specific, although they do speak with cajun accents in the original English version of the show.
>I wonder what Toph would 'see'/do if she had drank the Cactus like Sokka?Blind people can take hallucinogens. They don't generally get visual effects from what I understand because they don't use their brain that way. AFAIK neuroplasticity tends to reformat the visual processing part of the brain to use other sensory inputs more if you go blind. Some blind people can learn to do a basic version of echolocation (IIRC that was a source of inspiration for Toph).
No.41227
>>27724That would also be a payoff to the globetrotting stuff throughout the series, bringing back the side characters for some kind of spirit vision he forcibly takes Ozai on. It would be like how Roku had done with Aang throughout the show, demonstrating Aang fully becoming the Avatar's role as a guide. The climax of Aang's spiritual character arc being just another neato power is a lot less interesting than some kind of empathy based power that uses his connection to the "world spirit" to "fix" Ozai by re-connecting him to everyone else. Even if he still technically wins just because the experience overwhelms and incapacitates Ozai until the comet passes.
No.41253
Started watching Avatar with my gf. The episode with the "freedom fighters" plotting to take out a dam caught me off guard. I was not expecting a kids show to touch on such topics, even through a liberal lense.
No.41274
>>40947Australians are asiatic
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