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Dystopian Sci-Fimovies Anonymous Comrade 01/18/2020 (Sat) 18:06:13 No. 5426
What are some good dystopian sic-di movies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_State zizek mentioned this one as being good and i've wanted to watch it ever since
>>5426 Snowpiercer THX 1138 Her A clockwork Orange Brazil Total Recall Silent Running Gattaca Twelve Monkeys Fahrenheit 451 (old one) Wall-E Repo Men You've probably seen some or most of these. It would help if you write which ones you've seen and liked. >>5428 That movie is garbage.
>>5430 >THX 1138 The editing and character development in that movie was so fucking weird, you really didn’t know what was going on.
>>5428 >>5430 I thought it was quite good, if a bit predictable through Chekhov's guns. The only problem is that ideologically the movie is closer to idealist revolutionaries like Sayyid Qutb / orthodox anarchists (the "hero of the crowd" type ones) than with more materialist socialism. Also isn't Brazil basically a piece of neoliberal propaganda (muh road to serfdom / muh ebil civil servants coming for our freedums / muh dysfunctional byzantine bureaucracy)?
>>5445 Brazil is a satirical view on bureaucracy and "authoritarianism" that stems from it. I mean, going to prison for not submitting a form or not doing it properly is not far from our current reality. It's Foucaultian if anything, systems of control and all that. It was also a criticism of consumerist culture. I saw it a long time ago, so I might be wrong.
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They Live is a classic
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Obviously 1984 with John Hurt People also like V for Vendetta, though I found it somewhat mediocre. However I did enjoy this meme from it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fldAYNmA6Q
>>5452 >split second of DDR flag TOP JEJ
>>5426 Children of Men is superb; has one of the realest depictions of a fascist dystopia future I've seen in a movie and there's a really cool subplot of a revolution throughout the movie. Blade Runner 2049 is also really good; the dystopianism is more of a set-piece than the focus but it portrays the earth essentially dying in a very subtle and impactful way. >>5428 Basically my favorite movie about an insurrection. There are some parts of it that are kinda bad but most of the movie is a really good thriller about an underground resistance. It really captured the feeling of secrecy, paranoia, triumphant planning, being discovered, etc. >>5430 >That movie is garbage. N-no!
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Soylent Green?
>>5430 >That movie is garbage Why?
>>5430 > Wall-E Is it tho?
>>6076 >People trash the earth due to capitalist hyperconsumtion >escape into space and let autonomous robots recover it >Robots have gained sentience but it is ignored >People have become fat consumers who do nothing Does it have a happy ending? Sure, but the setting is fucking dystopian as hell.
>>5581 Heard that stuff was made of people.
>>6082 spoiler you idiot
>>6080 Dystopian for the robots, for the planet, for the universe. Not for the humans tho.
>>6083 Its several decades old, fuck off. >>6085 >living like degenerate consumers with no intelligence and stunted shallow social skills isn't dystopian You scare me.
>>6085 Living like an alienated prole under a world where the productive force is more than enough to make everyone live in plenty good? That’s not to mention we only see how shit places like the imperial core would become in cyberpunk without seeing the conditions of the developing nations and regions that is propping up that unholy shitpile in the first place. >>5581 Malthusian trash.
>>6098 >>6095 Welcome to the "West" in the year of 1950-today. Just saying: Dystopia is the Utopia that isn't good, Utopia is the place you aren't right now but is better than the one you are in right now, therefore you can't live in Dystopia (nor Utopia) currently. But the society in Wall-E is just like ours. Mind = blown already?
>>6098 >Malthusian How is it Malthusian? Isn't the point of the dystopic depiction anti-malthusian? >>6100 >you can't live in Dystopia That's not how a Dystopia works. Brave New World or 1984 is Dystopian, and both have features we see in modern society. We are currently entering the age of cyberpunk dystopia... except the robots aren't as cool and corporations have shitty names.
Blade Runner (original) is in my opinion an excellent dystopian film. The actors are great, the practical effects are sweet and it has an interesting story on the background of a dark realistic cyberpunk. The new 'sequel' is pretty trash though.
>>6103 >How is it Malthusian? It assumes that the only way we can feed a city of 40 million + people is by canibalism
>>6108 >It assumes that the only way we can feed a city of 40 million + people is by canibalism I don't think it assumes this, since the point was more that the ruling class was operating a utilitarian dystopia. Malthusianism would be the ruling class just executing or otherwise removing excess people.
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Reposting: Rewatching I, Robot (2004) the first time since I was 11, high as balls and it blows me away how in your face and prominent racial oppression and class war were. Noticed absolutely nothing political about it as a dumb apolitical 11 year old and this is a crazy revelation (though it would be obvious as fuck it I watched it for the first time now.) Thoughts on the standpoint? Liberal, radical, reactionary. I'd say it's a mixture of the first 2 but closer to radical than this essay gives it credit for: https://www.depauw.edu/sfs/backissues/104/Brayton104.htm It's comically over the top in exactly the same way Bright is, right down to Will Smith being racist against the fantasy/scifi characters while being ~ironically~ a black man in the position more classically held by a white man. Shit, some of the exchanges come straight off /pol/ >Will Smith: Robots aren't like people. Can a robot write a symphony? >Robot: Can you? It's exactly the same shit as MUH EUROPEAN CULTURE used in contrast with nonwhites. /pol/ didn't make Renaissance art, but that never stopped them from using it as evidence why they're the übermensch.
>>6106 >The new 'sequel' is pretty trash though. How so? I watched it a while ago and it was okay, pretty meh and the aesthetics is nowhere near as good as the first film. Still don’t get the praise it got from liberals tho.
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>>7569 >~ironically~ a black man in the position more classically held by a white man Man this never dawned on me. I was raised by liberal parents and grew up in a pretty diverse lower-middle class environment, so to me it was nothing more than Will Smith hating robots. It sucks to be innocently color blind and then thrust into a world full of racist shit I never knew existed, racism was always some abstract shit that happened before I was born. The real world sucks.
>>7584 Blade Runner: 2049 is much better than the original, IMO. The original is literally just a noir in the future; 2049 is about a world in which nature is dead and community has been completely vanquished; people tall about the atmosphere of 2049 because a large part of it is the world at that point, it's soul crushing. While the film doesn't focus on the death of nature much that death holds an all consuming presence throughout; it is a world without hope. 2049, if anything, tops the tone of the original. Hating new things just to hate them is dumb.
>>5426 My favorite sci fi film is World on a Wire/ Welt am Draht by Fassbinder.
>>7590 >The original is literally just a noir in the future I think you're severely downplaying the questions BRunner raises about artificial intelligence. both the original and the 2049 were good, in my opinion, although I felt a bit less engaged watching 2049.
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>>7584 While I think they're about equal in terms of rewatching, 2049 is a much smarter film. The original poses the question of what makes us human in a simple sense. Machines gradually improving at imitating our autonomy. 2049 turns it around with Joi, who is able to love while nonetheless being only a (comparatively)simple computer program. It's very hegelian.
>>7599 >much smarter film IMO I think its more pretentious and too straightforward compared to the original... had a lot more stupid shit in it too.
>>8782 The original is overrated as fuck. It's an over-glorified detective movie.
>>8786 >original is overrated <Outside of a cultfollowing its almost forgotten >detective movie >over-glorified This is why I hate modern movies. People have gotten so lazy that movies can't be even slightly subtle yet ironically rarely are straight-forward with their themes. That's why 2049 is garbage in comparison, there is none of the passion or metaphysicality of the original, and the fact that it being a "detective movie" is seen as a negative shows how sad this day and age is.
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How has no-one mentioned Planet of the Apes? Both the book and original movie series (and TV-show) are bloody brilliant, with the first 2 films being outright masterpieces of cinematic story-telling. (Charleton Heston is a big plus too). The first remake from the 2000s was really stupid and the final remake was too over-realistic yet simultaneously too stupid compared to the original series, which intentionally overlooked the vague inaccuracies to actual ape bodies in favor of telling a story. And of course practical effects are kino.
>>8852 I’m also surprised that no one mentioned the Starship Troopers book and film yet. The world Heinlein thought of as ideal is a straight up voluntarist hell scape where imperialist militarism is drilled into the heads of every voting citizens. Where the line between fascism and libertarianism completely blurred. The bugs are straight up analogies to communism with war crimes against their skinnies ally being considered “justified”. That’s not even mentioning that it’s also required reading for burger murreens.
>>8875 The book is not dystopian, the film is. I reposted an old explanation in the Fantasy thread on why and how its not "fascist" or "militaristic" and why the society proposed there was organized the way it was. The movie is straight up a mockery of Nazi and US militarism, and was intended to attack Heinlein's ideology, but ended up creating something completely independent from the book.
>>8852 Someone did a good Star Trek TNG crossover fic with Planet of the Apes... I'll have to find it sometime.
>>9805 Found it, written by Relusive Writer, it's called Homo Simian detailing Wesley Crusher ending up millenia in the future due to a shuttle accident, leading to a Planet of the Apes. Its rather well written, capturing the essence of both Star Trek and the original Planet of the Apes.
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Screamers is a good dystopia with an interesting conflict and a sad ending, starring Peter Weller (RoboCop) https://film.avclub.com/peter-weller-blasts-robots-in-an-under-appreciated-phil-1798277319 A good overreview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ltvU_3wL8 A more in depth review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-60rQsK9-w An interesting out-take: https://acrossthemargin.com/screamers/ Also Screamers 2 had one fucked up scene with the woman impregnated with one. Screamers 2 review (rus) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV3_7d5B3tw
>>10236 Just watched it. I love how the film changed the Cold War in the Philip K Dick story setting to a far flung planet. The Soviet Union became the working class and labour unions while “the good guys” are just straight up strike breakers working for Earth megacorps. >sad ending That’s debatable. In the end the Screamers that the Terran imperialists created will spell their doom. An outlook also shared by the short story, although in that one the protagonist at least got a consolation in that the machines has started to fight amongst each other much like their creators.
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A scathing overview of this rather unknown film http://archive.is/nQLsm A good coverage by Oliver Harper https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA0jWbm4xjs It's a Cyberpunk flick based on a William Gibson short-story of the same name. Screen-written by Gibson himself, it starred Keanu Reeves & Dina Meyer as the leads while featuring Ice-T, Takeshi Kitano, Denis Akiyama, Dolph Lundgren, and Henry Rollins (the lead singer from Black Flag). While it's panned by "fans" of Gibson and Cyberpunk in general, I rather enjoyed the movie. Its certainly better than a lot of schlock produced today and the effects are relatively good, if overtly apocalyptic. Some parts like the killer-priest were pointless or went no-where but the over-all story and idea is carried across. Some of Keanu's dialogue was poor and his acting is largely stoic (more likely due to poor direction) however his talent manages to get through his character. Dina is as springy as ever and demonstrates her best efforts in spite of her limits. Ice Tea is a homie... he knows what's good. Dolph Lundgren (psycho priest) clearly was just having fun fucking around in the last movie he would feature in for the next 15 years; His role was caused more by behind-the-scenes production needs than an actual purpose and it is felt. Henry Rollins plays the doctor/flesh-mechanic Spider, while not an actor did his small role well. Takeshi plays the straightman as always and along with Akiyama, filled out the role of "Dominating Japanese corporatism" which was the meme of the world, prior to the market crash, with fears of them taking over economic sphere, something that seems laughable today, but still fun to see. The scenes of protests in Beijing and other showings of the sheer corporatism are surprisingly prophetic considering the past decade, even predicting the beginning of this mess starting in the 2010s. The demonstration of technological reliance as well as the message of how technology applied mindlessly leads to dire consequences and loss of humanity. An interesting feature is Jones, the Cybernetic Dolphin/Porpoise (pic 2), which seems an unsubtle reference to cybernetic dolphin projects of the Navy at the time and referencing some fictional works of the time (see >>10214 ). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Mnemonic_(film) Regardless of its flaws I enjoyed it.
>>10272 Also an interesting part in the film is how 300+ Gb overloads Johnny's mind. By today's standards that's not a lot, however I automatically assume that due to the Human mind being complex, it is hard to integrate information into the mind properly and thus the limit to data capacity takes more tech to reach the terabyte range.
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>>10272 >Cyberpunk flick based on a William Gibson Speaking of the lib-soc writer Gibson he has a lot of works focusing on cyberpunk, written with a fair bit of anti-capitalist themes and warning of the dangers of unregulated transhumanism. He has liberal and anarchist inclinations, however not much of it is aimed at anti-communist rhetoric thankfully, and his works are written fairly well. The worlds of his novels are typically very bleak future-capitalist dystopia, serving as a backdrop to the main characters' stories who are hackers, mercenaries, or regular people that get caught up in the conflicts between corporations. Despite how shitty the world is, nobody is conscious or daring enough to question it. Everyone simply accepts the way things are because they are essentially powerless. So, you might say that the books are critical of capitalism by showing the absolute worst of it, but it isn't the main focus and no alternative being shown (which isn't necessarily needed given the stories he's telling). One of his more well-known works is the Neuromancer, followed by Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive; self-contained stories in the same universe, known as The Sprawl Trilogy A review on the book: http://archive.is/nz9oX >I just got through reading and listening to the audiobook of William Gibson’s novel “Neuromancer”. The novel was released in 1984 and is widely considered to be one of the founding works of the science fiction subgenre known as “Cyberpunk“. Gibson himself is a bit of a legendary figure, having coined the phrase “Cyberspace”. Gibson is also widely credited with having “predicted” everything from the world wide web, google class, unisex fashion, bay area gentrification, the gig economy, etc... >In similar manner, as someone who grew up watching the ‘Matrix’ trilogy, seeing how much they ripped off Gibson is rather disappointing. They also cribbed aesthetically from Ghost in the Shell (1995) and GitS had taken inspiration from Blade Runner (1982). This stuff wasn't even groundbreaking considering Shockwave Rider (1975) In Neuromancer you only follow Case's story, but in the others you switch between different plotlines happening at the same that affect each other. I think the characters are a lot more likeable in these two, and the story is easier to follow. At times it was hard for me to understand what was going in Neuromancer.
>>10382 An interesting if somewhat Americanistic cyberpunk book is "When Gravity Fails", a world where traps are the norm and the west has declined to the point of being comparable to the current Middle East, where the story is set. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/MaridAudran?from=Literature.WhenGravityFails There is also Snowcrash which essentially depicts an Ancap's wet dream. Gibson helped popularize cyberpunk, but was never the best cyberpunk writer IMO
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Some say that the terrorists and UNATCO are both cartoonish version of libertarians and modern US politics and that merging with the AI and crashing the system is libertarianism. On other hand people argue that Full AI merging is communism. I would argue that neither is true. The companies, as you hack into their emails throughout the game, all represent booming industries (security, medicine, banks) it is revealed that they intentionally keep jobs scarce and people desperate, because working conditions don't matter. They even reference this strategy, then going to politicians and saying "We'd love to hire people, but we can't afford to with all these pesky restrictions like safety, etc". A clearly libertarian approach, but this is not presented as a good thing, except by proxy. For example in Mankind Divided, a poor man who was told in order to get a job they needed to give him cybernetic hands to produce productivity. And the man was so desperate for a job he did it, which resulted in "cool hands" but at a clear loss. This is clearly an anti-capitalist message. However to those who cannot see past the "ooh its cool cyberpunk" it seems pro-capitalist. On the other hand we have the merged AI which is supposed to ease the prediction of needs for people. However it also removes all sense of personal privacy and smacks of "the Borg are communists because they're collective" strawman, and is terrifyingly transhumanist. What's the point of living if everything is decided for you? Also on the topic of conspiracies, Everyone is so skeptical of Illuminati and shit... yet the series reveals ECHELON, years before Snowden. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
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The whole romanticism of cyberpunk is fucking horrid. it fetishizes dystopian outcomes and ultimately makes it something to look forward to rather than strive to avoid. Look at how reddit/4chan hypes anything up that is related to that stupid fantasy. >muh neon lights >muh qt cyborg gf >muh robotic arm <who gives a fuck that technological overload is damaging. it doesn't help that 90% of the media that depicts the future caters into this fetish; Ready Player One is a good example that it's become merely an aesthetic. A quote from a cyberpunk thread that was rather interesting in relation to this, ''Neal Stephenson was right and the reality is maybe a bit closer to Snow Crash than Blade Runner. We even have high-speed dystopian pizza delivery. Also met Bruce Sterling once at a book thing. And I blurted out "I really liked Islands in the Net!" And he replied in his sarcastic way, "thanks but I only killed, like, one guy with a drone in that." His self-deprecating joke is that his prediction was off in terms of the number of people getting popped by drones in the cyberpunk future he was trying to describe in the early 90s.'' In short we need more media that accurately displays the true horror of "cyberpunk" settings. Something like pic related, or children of men.
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Reposting the kitschy Cyberpunk I want to ask Leftypol's thoughts on this, just some things rattling around my head I think we live in a Cyberpunk dystopia; like, I think we're already there, in the very early stages of one Not just dystopia, specifically a cyberpunk one We have the start of advanced mind control prosthetic limbs Mass poverty only getting worse Ecological collapse Autonomous weaponry Drones doing most of the military death squad actions The bloody internet, its culture, and the parasocial relationships within it Highly advanced automation Genetic engineering World ending superweapons That's all just off the top of my head And yet...strangely...things all look almost the same? They look roughly the same as how I remember the 2000s Which look roughly the same as the 1990s And yet things also look nothing like all those 80s cyberpunk dystopias More and more the mask goes off, the bourgeoisie reveals the naked class struggle, exploitation and death at the core of this society And yet they won't go all the way I keep watching these cutesy, kitschy ads Ads with "sincerity" That try to connect to our "human sides" That took about helping one another and caring for each other I watch porkies being in support of mass protests and unrest, at least PR wise I don't even know Just some mind thoughts I guess But I keep thinking It's almost like Black Mirror, I feel Black Mirror is the best modern cyberpunk update Because I think it really captures the true terror of it all In the past cyberpunk imagined the bourgeois casting aside the mask and making our brutal exploitation open and explicit again as it once was in the Gilded Age Instead however the horror is still somewhat out of view It's hidden, back behind the corner of your eye Something you see just in the periphery, that you notice if you stare hard enough But it's like it's still always hiding And little by little you see it, you see autonomous drones monitoring protests, you see constant disinformation wars and blatant war propaganda, you see constant surveillance, eugenics by incompetent bureaucracy (my heart goes to those in the various national and private healthcare systems during the pandemic) Slowly you see the full horror of it all, the nightmare of our modern existence Despair, despair that grips an entire generation, the whole world You see the full horror of a dying planet, and the absurdity of its killers telling you they can save it by accelerating their exploitation of it The horror of "progressive empires" that claim they are starting wars to finally defeat reactionary governments, which entails bombing houses full of innocent The horror of ads of smiling foreign peoples in nations where armies of the impoverished work night and day in factories to produce commodities that are killing their own land and further impoverishing them The horror of a ruling class who has lost all sanity, who laughs and smiles and gives warm assuring phrases as it pushes the entire human race off a cliff I mentioned cyberpunk, I mentioned Black Mirror The horror of our cutesy, kitschy dystopia is This is even worse than Cyberpunk, this is even worse than Black Mirror The horror of both is the thought of a world ruled by Capital eternally, in this both failed to see the reality of Capital's transience However there is an even greater horror In sight of its imminent end, Capital prepares for nothing less than the apocalypse The ultimate dystopia And the terror mounts The terror of nightmarish war, the terror of a dead and baked planet, the terrifying realization that is Socialism or Extinction What is most frightening to me is the way that those authors of Cyberpunk failed to grasp how, far all their dystopic and apocalyptic predictions, the future would be even worse than they imagined And the worst part? The aesthetic of the now, rot and decay marking the streets, massive swathes of even the mighty world Empire of America looking like the Third World, and all of it papered over with cutesy ads, warm smiles, and false sincerity The most disturbing thing of all, is the way the bourgeoisie has struggled to maintain its human face in all this Like witnessing the Thing starting its violent spasms, trying to hold onto a human mask before shifting into some horrific monstrosity and devouring everything in the room The most terrifying monster of all, is the one that seeks to convince you of its warmth, friendliness, and safety as it prepares to tear your head off Our cutesy, kitschy dystopia, what a fucking nightmare This is our present and if we allow it, our future https://thenib.com/amazon-troopers-special-delivery/
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I read this and laughed my ass off while nodding in agreement to all of it. It was like a blast from the past and sort of reminded me of the '90s cyberpunk shit that was going on in this thread You're a 90's kid if: You can finish this 'ice ice _" You remember watching Doug, Ren & Stimpy, Pinky and the Brain, Bobby's World, Felix the cat, The Tick...AAAAAAAH Real Monsters! You've ever ended a sentence with the word "PSYCHE!" You just cant resist finishing this . . . "Iiiiiiin west philidelphia born and raised . . ." You remember TGIF, Step by Step, Family Matters, Dinosaurs, and Boy Meets World. You remember when it was actually worth getting up early on a Saturday to watch cartoons. You got super excited when it was Oregon Trail day in computer class at school. You remember reading "Goosebumps" You took plastic cartoon lunch boxes to school. You still get the urge to say "NOT" after (almost) every sentence . . . not If you remember seeing hot tub bubbles make bubbly sounds before every music video on VH1. when everything was settled by rock paper scissors..or bubble gum bubble gum in a dish...eeny meeny miney mo...and even better daddy had a donkey inky binky bonky. You used to listen to the radio all day long just to record your FAVORITE song of ALL time. "Where in the World is Carmen San Diego?" was both a game and a TV game show. Captain Planet. He's a Hero. You knew that Kimberly, the pink ranger, and Tommy, the green ranger, were meant to be together. You remember when Super Nintendos and Sega Genisis became popular. You always wanted to send in a tape to America's Funniest Home Videos . . . but never taped anything funny. You remember watching Home Alone 1, 2 , and 3 . . . and tried to pull the pranks on "intruders" You remember watching The Magic School Bus, Wishbone, and Reading Rainbow on PBS. You remember when Yo-Yos were cool. You remember those Where's Waldo books. You remember eating Warheads. You remember watching the 1st Batman, Aladdin, Ninja Turtles, and 3 Ninjas movies. You remember Ring Pops. You remember drinking Surge, and Tang. If you remember when every thing was "da BOMB!" When they made the new lunchables so that you could make pizza AND tacos. You remember boom boxes vs. cd players. Making those little paper cootie-catcher things, and then predicting your life with them. You played and/or collected "Pogs" You had at least one Tamagotchi, GigaPet, or Nano and brought it everywhere. . . . Furbies You haven't always had a computer, and it was cool to have the internet. And Windows 95 was the best. You watched the original cartoons of Rugrats, Power Rangers, and Ninja Turtles. Michael Jordan was a king. All your school supplies were "Lisa Frank" brand. You remember when the new Beanie Babies and Talking Elmo were always sold out. You collected those Beanie Babies. Carebears Lambchop's song never ended. The old dollar bills. Silver dollars, which were cool to have. You remember a time before the WB. You collected all the Troll dolls If you even know what an original walkman is. You've gotten creeped out by "Are You Afraid of the Dark?" You know the Macarena by heart. "Talk to the hand" . . . nough said You always said, "Then why don't you marry it?!" You remember trying to collect all 150 original pokemon cards but never could and if you did you thought you were all that! You remember Highlight's magazine. You went to McDonald's to play in the playplace. You remember playing on merry go rounds at the playground. Before the MySpace frenzy . . . Before the Internet & text messaging . . . Before Sidekicks & iPods . . . Before PlayStation2 or X-BOX . . . Before Spongebob . . . Back when you put off the 5 hours of homework you had every night. When light up sneakers were cool. When you rented VHS tapes, not DVDs. When gas was 0.95 a gallon & Caller ID was The new thing. When we recorded stuff on VCRs. When gameboy was a brick. You did MASH to figure out your future Way back. Before we realized all this would eventually disappear. Who would have thought you'd miss the 90's so much!! Repost this on social media if you remember these days . . . . or if you smiled at one of these things.
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Repost comp: Cyberpunk always seems to be anti-capitalist without necessarily being socialist. A good example is Cyberpunk 2077 which stays true to its original source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk_(role-playing_game) >Style over substance. >Attitude is everything. >Always take it to the Edge. Apparently "Cyberpunk™" as an RPG has always been an aesthetic spectacle. It seems the only 3 factions are Corp, Street Kid, and Nomad and they are all oriented around individualism and buying cool toys. In theory a story with a preset character isn't that bad, and can turn out really strong (like Disco Elysium, or the guy from new Deus Ex games for a more AAA example). However I doubt they will bother to make the character in Cyberpunk to be an integral part, and thus it might end up being just a bland empty spot that might get a unique dialogue option once in a while with differing background. An example of a recent game that allows picking a backstory is Tyranny, but I digress. The creator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pondsmith seems like an ass and to me tabletop RPGs like this have become about overcharging for artbooks, abusing intellectual property, and marketing to create repeat customers. Cyberpunk to these people is only the same level Steampunk or Mecha Anime, its just a gimmick to sell merchandise. The worst part is that this will be so many peoples first introduction to cyberpunk that it will reimagine the genre in the public consciousnesses, the same way Anarchism or Punk is seen as chaos and being mad at your parents, which is why those movements have BECOME about that now, instead of spurning totalitarian capitalism.
>>5452 based. I've read both books.
>>10412 >Deus Ex I've only recently played the first one. It was a real joy to play. I've heard the sequels aren't as good so I've been reluctant to play them. Ghost in the shell is still my favorite franchise. Cowboy beebop is great as well. The Matrix trilogy and animatrix are also pretty cool. Children of Men is great, and I think it's very relevant to our COVID times. Idiocracy was ok.
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>>7590 >>7598 >>7599 (checked) >>7584 >>6106 >>8786 >>8787 (checked) A good review of both the original blade runner and 2049 was made by Critical Drinker: Original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdLn5MqER_g 2049: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSXyPOvH_ws
>>12495 WHO THE FUCK IS CRITICAL DRINKER WHY DO YOU KEEP RECOMMENDING HIM MUH ALGORITHM MUH TISMS MUH RISMS
>>12496 Just a random youtube reviewer who presented good short analyses of a lot of movies and media which I found intriguing and well balanced, as he tries to keep his personal political opinion out/being objective on the merits & flaws. >Muh algorithm Kek
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James Cameron's Avatar is a rather unknown dystopic film, mostly because the main story was an alien knock-off of Disney's Pocahontas and the main theme was environmentalist. The scenes of life on Earth (or wherever) prior to the mission, shows the main character living in a tiny shit apartment in dirty neon-colored streets reminiscent of Blade Runner... or the paper-city that is Las Vegas today. The Space Mission and the military? Owned by a massive corporation with no morals. The inclusion of Sigourney Weaver only accentuates the parallels to Weyland-Yutani from the Aliens franchise. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_universe_of_Avatar#Human_interest Red Cynic did a good review of the leftist themes and the story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTKl5HfQnro For non-russian speakers Drinker also has a decent review, though it lacks the political analysis Red Cynic provides: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNeEGBDTnig
>>12521 People overlook the scenes on Earth because most of that was cut from the theatrical version of the movie. IIRC the theatrical cut only includes the 1 scene and a handful of shots where the protagonist is informed his twin died and they need him to pilot the avatar body.
>>12528 Yeah, I remember how the released film was quite different to the theatrical film. I remember it well cause it was this big thing with all the 3D and special effects for the first time ever. ? It's oddly nostalgic looking back to it.
A rather mundane and oddly deficient dystopia is Ready Player One. Its essentially what was written about in >>10756 where the dystopia exists but instead of the corporations being called cool names we get ironic shit like Amazon and Microsoft. Before I go into the actual dystopian features I just want to point out a bunch of random (spoilers)/dumb things in the movie that no review seems to really point out. - I find it hilarious that a bunch of their gimmicks and part of the plot (virtual rescues, VR super-video-game world etc.) were straight up Spy Kids 3 content. - The entire movie's gimmick was essentially "remember how you like references/easter-eggs in your movies? Well now we made a movie about Easter-eggs and put Easter eggs in your Easter-egg movie, dawg." - The tons of Master Chiefs and Tracer's ass are pretty lazy - do you honestly believe that in a society now centered around this insane gaming world will not have nearly every gamer try to customize their characters and skins? - The mecha fight with Mecha Godzilla was just poorly made. FFS even Pacific Rim: Uprising did better mech-fights than that sad excuse of an exchange. - The idea that no-one would even accidentally accelerate backwards in the game is also retarded. That's literally the first accident I did in my first racing game, I certainly didn't get any cheats from it. - The movie unironically pulls the "bad capitalist-good capitalist card" and expects people to think this is right. It was so blatant that I think everyone noticed how shite that was. The funniest part about it was that the cops arrest the big-bad, who for some fucking reason went to kill the protags personally. I mean it certainly breaks the mold of dystopian film climaxes, but not in a good way. - There weren't any tentacle monsters. Even Force Awakens got that right. - It's all about vague, idealist moralisms of digital “freedom” that pedos and libertarians (leftist and rightist) love I Literally watched the movie just for morbid curiosity and the Queen of Cats from the Spess Kat threads I wanna rail that pussy's pussy. I missed nothing. All the fun cameos and interesting parts were already in clip form on the net. On to the dystopia shit (and why its poor). The internet is so often dived into for an escape that it stops being an escape and becomes where you live, because most of the world lives in corporate induced poverty. It's a reflection of today's go-nowhere existences, except with poverty stacked up and technology of VR and other mundane shit, maxed out. People are owned by corporations they fall into debt to and labor for this 'til they die. It's ironic that this reflects today's reality, yet blatantly attempts to liberalize it into "we just need young good people owning the corporations" which means that the problems created will merely be patched and ignored. In many ways Ready Player One makes me wonder if it isn't a prequel to the Matrix. See the problem is that the idea of hey get the fuck off the internet and live reality is on I agree with, but when there are no material conditions to allow self-actualization or any actual demonstration of action to improve the outside world, what the fuck is the point? With the Matrix it made sense, the world online wasn't fantastical or able to provide all you ever dreamed, and thus reality is preferable, where those who escaped try and make things better. But here, there is none of that. There is just taking over the OASIS and then nothing. Also the villain Sorento's avatar is straight up a rip-off of Senator Armstrong from Metal Gear He pilots a giant animal-themed robot mech in the final battle before fighting head to head with the main hero. His eyes even glow. Just replace "nanomachines" with "infinite money", and he basically is invincible as well. Movie review Your Movie Sucks review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIQp3KeDmwU Red Cynic Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z45MKLo79qw List of Easter Eggs: http://archive.is/eDUaq (The battletoads reference reminded me of the whole Battletoads meme from 4chan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYmVdzgfhCY ) other http://archive.vn/SZ6iA As an aside the book is written like absolute shite (pic 2 related). It's like a fanfiction about every 80s movie ever mashed into each other incoherently, like the nerd: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQyuNpzp29E
>>5430 >Snowpiercer >>9288 for anyone interested
>>13193 Remember how everyone was making a big deal about people that would watch the movie constantly and how it was inducing depression in people because everyone wanted to live on Pandora or something. That was weird.
>>13418 That sounds vaguely familiar. There was this cult or something that rose but then sort of dissipated. The sequel is supposed to come out next year (even though originally the sequel was supposed to come out way earlier).
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Time Cop is relatively dystopian Peggy Sue movie starring 90s star Van Damme. It is like the poormans combination of BladeRunner and Back to the Future. Where a by-the-book cop uses time travel to go after crime, and specifically a corrupt politician and save his wife in the process. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timecop The trailer was pretty fun, just as I remember back on the VHS tapes LOL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OPLHgw54h4 Cyberpunk overview: https://static.anarchivism.org/cyberpunkreview-archive/www.cyberpunkreview.com/movie/decade/1990-1999/timecop/index.html Oliver Harper's Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNEoMTIv4VE And yes the pic about the rich in the white house is real: http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/t/timecop-script-transcript-van-damme.html Not really related but here's A good vaporwave score called (for some reason) Timecop1983: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ci0Kgdpgsw The actual score for the movie is pretty good background stuff too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AevA2wbkoqU Tesla Cyberpunk truck breakdown which mentions the film briefly: http://archive.vn/xGxJy
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>>12405 It's been announced that Cyberpunk 2077 will have an anime will be made in the same universe. Breakdown of Cyberpunk or not, this seems rather neat... as long as they actually do make it in 2022 and don't half-ass it. Its supposed to be called Cyberpunk: Edgerunners and it features a lot of the big-guns in the anime business: Hiroyuki Imaishi (Gurren Lagann, Kill la Kill, Promare) will direct the series along with assistant director Masahiko Otsuka (Gurren Lagann, Promare), creative director Hiromi Wakabayashi (Kill la Kill), character designers Yoh Yoshinari (Little Witch Academia, BNA: Brand New Animal) and Yuto Kaneko (Little Witch Academia), and the adapted screenplay by Yoshiki Usa (SSSS.GRIDMAN, Promare) and Masahiko Otsuka (Gurren Lagann, Kill la Kill, Promare). The original score will be composed by Akira Yamaoka (Silent Hill series). It honestly sounds pretty based according to the summary: a standalone, 10-episode story about a street kid trying to survive in a technology and body modification-obsessed city of the future. Having everything to lose, he chooses to stay alive by becoming an edgerunner—a mercenary outlaw also known as a cyberpunk. I'm looking forward to its release. https://www.cyberpunk.net/en/news/35512/announcing-an-original-anime-series-cyberpunk-edgerunners
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>>12405 >The creator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pondsmith seems like an ass 1) He's the creator of Cyberpunk 2020 and more of an advisor and one of the creators of 2077 2) How is he an ass? He's no communist, but that's not a requirement for cyberpunk People are just trying to shit on the video-game and the company because "muh racist Poles" despite Witcher being a Polish written and Poland based series and Pondsmith being a literal African-American who was writing out races as gangs as he saw them or wanted to depict. It's literally >You poor minorities! Let me be offended on your behalf! <LOL no Typical liberal virtue signaling, pics related To quote: "McIntosh's tweet (pic 2) overtly misses the point of Cyberpunk. It is supposed to an oversexed dystopian future with guns, drugs, and all sorts of passive advertisements run by corporations taking over everyday lives. It is there as a means to cover the poverty line Night City is infamous for. And nothing covers a shit and depressive life better than sex-appeal, celebrity gossip, and mass shootings." Also for anyone wanting to read Cyberpunk 2020: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/50354/Cyberpunk-2020-The-Second-Edition-Version-201
>>13303 >le epic references movie As a side note, a god film that actually makes appropriate and plentiful references is Galaxy Quest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_Quest#Relation_to_Star_Trek_and_other_science_fiction_works
>>13469 >character is a literal cyberpunk Cringe. Sounds like more retarded shonen shit.
>>13780 >Muhhhh Shonen Pretentious pseudo-intellectual blow-hards like you make the Narutard stereotype look mature.
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The gun you are currently holding is the Aperture Science Anal tunnelling device,ASATD for short.The device is designed to be a portable gel gun used for coating walls with Horse seme-I mean conversion gel. Please cum-I mean continue testing. Try not to Overclock the ba-I mean storage tanks Well done. You have completed this test with flying colors. Please enter the lift so you can come and fuck me-I mean get a physical exam...
cyberpunk died officially in 1995 (when reddit-effect happened) it was trash before that too (even cyberpunk writers say that, that it is a trash, it is just low-life sci-fi)
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>>13425 >sequel Given how disappointing and garbage Terminator Dark Fems, Predator (2018) and Alien: Covenant were, I don't hold out much hope on it being good. I'm betting we're getting a BatmanVsSuperman-tier edit where Cameron inserts "Orange Man Bad!!!" into it. >>12521 >>12528 >>13193 >>13418 What I recall is the (hilarious) whole confusion of Avatar and Avatar: The Last Airbender on the internet. The Na'avi World Tree's similarity to The Foggy Swamp tree from ATLA's episode The Swamp (S2E4), didn't help. https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Banyan-grove_tree (Also ATLA thread here >>6738 ) >>13399 Nice dubs. Also Orwell thread (since Orwell is a dystopia writer) is located >>5161 OP didn't make a very good intro, so it drops down the catalog fast.
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Slavoj Žižek: Elon Musk’s desire to control our minds is dehumanizing and not what is needed in a socially distanced world >And so, the prospect of Neuralink ideally fits the vision of a new society in which we will be bodily isolated, living in protective bubbles, and simultaneously sharing the same mental space. In our psychic lives, we will be closer to each other than ever before, immersed into the same space. <TFW we're 1 step away from GiTS or Instrumentality https://www.rt.com/op-ed/499626-slavoj-zizek-elon-musk/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWkL0QwLllw >Before Elon Musk says that AI is going to destroy humanity <Now he's trying to connect human brains to the internet I'm sure that everybody is aware of Elon Musk and his epic narwhal bacon redditor escapades. Recently, he has debuted a device that can both track and apply apply stimuli directly onto the nervous system. The results of the reveal have been predictable. The comments on the video are filled with an army of the iPhone bonded, normalfag, wealthy lords of the Walmart/Gamestop combo store that inhabit Reddit. The threads are all ogling at how futuristic and useful the device is, with a few comments about it's like le cool cinematic cyberpunk! The described reactions above detail the process of manufacturing consent: A malleable and easily manipulated class of professional "intellectuals" guided towards a conclusion by the financial powers that be. Be it through laziness or aligning interests, the managerial class parrots ideas of a very small elite while squawking orders and mimicking the voice of a silent majority. The ideas being reddit memes and metal things that are to be put in your brain, you are forced to accept this narrative for social credit scores; Ex: employer wants a look at your profile before they hire you. It's ironic that Westerners whine about China's social credit score system. It was all here in the West already, just done by corporations. Banks and insurance companies literally create a social score for you based on big data, and then decide your fate based on what's most profitable for them. But what drove Musk and the market to something as inhuman as inserting an internet chip into a brain? The stagnation of the internet eras boom and the logistical tracking abilities it had offered. From the 1970s to the mid 2010s, wireless changed the way the world worked. The US navy employed it, Project Cybersyn happened, Apple and Windows computers ruled, general ease of coordination and tracking was changed. Now, all of that is gone. The US military is back to using radar based boats to fend off guerillas, Cybersyn died with Allende, Apple is stagnant and only kept alive by the federal reserve and Windows 'competition'. Meanwhile DIY transhumanists have already done this kind of thing with nerve endings outside the brain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0WIgU7LRc The brain is plastic enough that you can adapt to a new signal Tracking people and goods is more complicated due to demand rising of service levels, encryption has become the rule of thumb for anyone actually working with tech. Even the CIA struggles despite massive NSA networks. The result of this is a direct in-out channel logistics tracking device placed in your skull for efficiency and surveillance (with 10s of thousands of atmosphere cluttering satellites). Great for manipulating people too: chip detects when you are looking at an ad from 'candidate A' and triggers waves of nausea; if you watch a campaign ad from 'candidate B' it triggers a release of serotonin and dopamine. Perfect manufactured consent and electoral manipulation through operant conditioning. The device has some proof-of-concept with animals and mind-control experiments. Magnets could be used in assault. It probably would make people vulnerable to EMP weapons which can even be home-made. EMPs don't need nukes, there are single use EMP-generators that use regular explosives, it's possible to have 1 produce a pulse to fry the brains of a city. The EM noise from a taser held next to someone's head might lobotomize them. >Why would an EMP do that, it would just kill the device. It's like a lightning rod wired directly into your brain. You can see 4 long wires connect the wireless adapter behind the ear to the electrode arrays higher up on the skull, enough to induce several thousand volts in the milliamp range, it will fry most of your axons and scar your synapses. Everything with electronics will be susceptible to magnetism otherwise it won't be able to transmit electrical signals. There is no known material that blocks magnetic fields without itself being attracted to the magnetic force. Magnetic fields can only be redirected. To do this, high-permeability shielding alloys are used. The magnetic field lines are strongly attracted into the shielding material. To fix the design: Replace the electrical wires with a optical fibre with tiny optical-signal to electrical-signal converter, you mau be able to avoid having long conductors, vulnerable to electromagnetic pulses. You can probably put a computer chip into your brain that is powered by a thermal differential, while computationally very simple it would give you perfect math skills and probably considerable amount (a few hundred kilobytes) of very accurate memory for information that can be stored with simple file formats. This would not need any conductors that are long enough for a EMP to induce electrical pulse destructive to either your brain or the chip. It would literally be just a chip with a few exposed electrodes. So small that you could barely see it with the naked eye, and it could probably be injected into your brain via a blood vessel probe, so that you don't need to make a hole into your skull. And all the troglodyte "progressive" tech-fags are like >Shut up Slave put the chip in ur skull. Dont want to be """"Reactionary""""" 'le boomer'! <It's just controlled release medication >anti-depressants Needed primarily because of the nightmare capitalism we live in. >helping workers receive [anti-depressants] when they are under the most stress [read: having the worst time, namely, working]. How about making a robot that makes work not be utter hell by eliminating said work, instead of releasing numbing medicine when shit gets though. >Wirelessly broadcast schedules by whom? Mr. Steven Pinker, the best friend of Bill Gates and Epstein? >Human ingenuity is truly boundless! Enthusiasm of making people endure un-endurable situations. Literally keeping the working population subdued and complacent with chemicals. It is not a neutral technology. If you think anything in psychiatry (and science in general) is "neutral", you haven't been paying enough attention. However it's probably going to be a gigantic improvement for healing blindness and deafness, and give back motor control and touch sense perception for people with spinal injuries. So it COULD BE useful technology should we get rid of the worst parts of society and humanity. Resisting mass surveillance and proprietary, privacy restricting software should be of higher priority for socialist orgs. Not in an anprim sort of way, but more along the lines of what Richard Stallman talks about. Technology in the hands of the bourgeoisie only serves as another tool to suppress opposition, sabotage movements, disseminate propaganda. Another thing to worry about is the pacification of the working class via social media and mass entertainment: bread and circus, except it's super addictive and manipulative. CIA and other mind control stuff https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP88-01070R000301530003-5.pdf https://www.simplypsychology.org/pavlov.html https://nypost.com/2018/12/11/cia-once-secretly-implanted-mind-control-devices-in-dogs-brains/ https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00792R000600340001-4.pdf https://www.newsweek.com/cia-mkultra-documents-files-remote-control-dogs-1250519 https://www.roboticstomorrow.com/article/2018/06/the-world-of-insect-cyborgs/12087 What a Brave New World http://archive.is/zHEho
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>>16904 >be redditor >get me ebin futuristic internet chip in your brain to rewatch your favorite marvel movies 24/7/365 for the rest of your life >click on sketchy link >download ransomware and get paralyzed and forced to send your entire life savings to random bitcoin address >regain faculties >download monero miner >your body uses all of its energy to mime monero to the point where you are borderline catatonic >get cybertruck comes to escort you to a repair hospital >they ssh into your brain and remove the monero miner, and install malwarebytes >all your money has been used to pay for your hospital bills, Sim card licensing fees, and stolen from the ransomware attack earlier >they downgrade you to Avast >random intrusive thoughts prompting you to pay for premium and install updates >constant adverts <Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality. The future is bright
>16905 And this is why I say FPS games are shit influences
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>>16904 >inb4 muh brain interface incompatability Read the naiive insanity of Physical Control of the Mind: Toward a Psychocivilized Society Novel by José Manuel Rodriguez Delgado https://archive.vn/STCOQ https://archive.vn/ELk0d
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The Iron Heel portrays a failed socialist movement in the 20th century getting crushed by the world oligarchy with commentary by a socialist future historian. And the amazing thing is that somehow it managed to predict the world today better than any other dystopian novel could in 1908 before ww1 and the first socialist state in the world. >>8875 >>8884 Effortpost on Starship Troopers >>5927 >>5931 >>5932 in the Fantasy thread. https://libcom.org/library/starship-stormtroopers-michael-moorcock
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A very disappointing dystopian film is What Happened to Monday also known as the Secret of 7 Sisters. The reason is because it's an anti-collectivist attempt at "le teen rebellion", that as always, comes off as bratty kids being stupid. The plot of the movie is essentially population excess and other problems in relation to food scarcity forcing the government to implement planned economic policies, which includes a 1-Child Policy (paralleling China). People with more than 1 child are to have one of them taken and put in cryosleep until better times. The twist is the government is lying and the 'cryosleep' is all bullshit to cover up them burning their euthanized corpses. The stupid part is how inefficient and illogical it is in regards to both capitalist planned economies and socialist ones, it's another case of shitty retarded attempts at "totalitarian gobbmint" done lazily. Decent review by Ugly Joke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKsh4cHa_W4 Some plotholes (SPOILERS) - She's buying food for 7 people... using a salary for 1 person, HOW? - Why not enforce artificial insemination and required contraceptives for sex? If you fertilize one egg, then there will be no multiple pregnancy. And this is clearly cheaper than constantly burning children or “officially” keeping them frozen. And in this way it will be possible to gain time to come up with ways to reduce fertility in a natural way (or produce food in more meaningful amounts). - They may be identical siblings but their mannerisms are different and it would be fairly obvious with discrepancies in memories or other details to anyone who gives a fuck (such as the feds or a stingy boss). - Each girl would probably want a relationship of their own... so how would you live and do that? ironically the decision of Monday to do this is the true final twist
>>16915 >>16908 >>16904 >mind implants make good obedient workers We're coming down to the horror of GitS and the Borg collective, where people are intelligences that think they are self-aware but cannot confirm if this is true or if it is an illusion. People love to compare the borg to 'muh evul communism' but frankly it's essentially an overpowered spacefaring example of what cyberpunk capitalism plans to do to humankind.
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>>5452 >enjoy this meme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emfTlWqOf-E The video got privatized so here's a reupload and webm
>>18258 It’s sad how the book is still accurate to this day. I wish that we in the real world can one day look at this era as a bygone age of barbarism rather than the first signs to the end of human civilization.
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>>18519 >>16915 >>16908 >>16904 >Your mind could be the only real thing and everything else a mere figment of your imagination. For all you know, you could be a brain in a vat somewhere or a digital conciousness being fed stimuli by some greater being or an alien civilization to make the world around you make sense. It's impossible to disprove this because any "debunk" could just be a part of the simulation made simply to calm you down and stop you from considering this possibility anymore. You may be the only concious being "alive". Scariest one; >you have psychotic delusions and believe in a world that doesn't exist because you can't properly cope with the dystopian reality anymore
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>>5452 >V for Vendetta Alan Moore was an idealistic radlib who thinks random violence without any planning after the results will do anything other than continuing the endless struggle. Telling people to choose for themselves when they’ve known nothing about society other than the fascist regime they spent decades under is stupid. The comic is basically a fanfic of early 20th century anarchism, that due to writer biases, have it succeeds rather than pushing people into more organized methods to achieve anything. he whole great man angle is excessively liberal, and it confused me why V only has one protege instead of as many as possible. It's not a good demonstration of actual revolution or even anarchy specifically, but even understanding the radlib context it's really bizarre for the revolution to hinge on one (wo)man and a student. It makes some sense character-wise for V to be like that but why write the character that way? Especially since V is thematically supposed to represent the resistance that's inherently produced by tyranny. This lends itself to a group dynamic, but that's only referenced in the movie with everyone wearing the masks at the end. The movie actually has a better and realistic depiction of a mass movement against fascism than the comic. Because even libs are still more successful in that than anarchists especially the pre-20th century ones that Moore tried to emulate. A better representation of his politics you should read Brought to Light. TL;DR: All you need to know about how much of a fake anarchist Moore was at the time is his pitch for DC’s Twilight of the Superheroes. Which can be found here: https://ia801906.us.archive.org/28/items/TwilightOfTheSuperheroes/TwilightOfTheSuperheroes.pdf He did the same thing that made Moore hate his biggest fanboy Grant Morrison. He did become a much better person after getting fucked over by corporate but that’s decades later.
>>19282 >Alan Moore was an idealistic radlib who thinks random violence without any planning after the results will do anything other than continuing the endless struggle. yea i don't think he thought that, and you will notice this if you look into all the flaws with V's character, the flaws with the characters that he's supposed to be saving, and (if you read the actual graphic novel not watch the shitty movie) you will realise that the only person who is continuing the fight after V's death is Evie as the crowd simply riots around with no aim other than to smash the state, bringing the brutal fascist reign to its obvious conclusion of pointless individual violence with the aftermath unstated on purpose so that people can write in their own idealistic/materialistic outcomes, despite the fact that it can all only turn out one way (return to reaction), which is why Evie doesn't just "retire to enjoy the spoils" and it averts this entire "much wholesome" nonsense trope. the whole angle of the graphic novel was less so the outcome of it than basically a thorough deconstruction of how all of those "perfect" and "polite" politicians (remember he was writing this in a time before the internet when all of these cunts had the ability to carefully curate their public image as long as the msm were compliant) are actually horrible fucking human beings corrupted by power that backstab each other and commit degenerate acts endlessly, in other words they act exactly like the "unwashed masses" that the ruling class has such disdain for thanks to their projection, and in the context of thatcherite britain it was absolutely perfect. alan moore may not be a revolutionary and he may not even be a particularly good anarchist with his occultist obsessions, but every artistic work he did has its nuances that need to be explored from a particular zeitgeist, v for vendetta included.
>>19565 >look into all the flaws with V's character, the flaws with the characters that he's supposed to be saving You assume this was intentional > the crowd simply riots around with no aim other than to smash the state, bringing the brutal fascist reign to its obvious conclusion of pointless individual violence with the aftermath unstated on purpose so that people can write in their own idealistic/materialistic outcomes Again, this isn't incorrect, but it assumes that he was consciously writing this and not just depicting real life. I agree that it was a interesting novel and film but I also believe it is overrated by many, partially because he doesn't really present a solution and it ends up being just like every other depiction of revolution's dirtiness. It becomes tiresome because I'm sick of reading about a novelized satirization of real life, when I live and experience it anyway. Might as well look out the window or watch the news for all the difference it makes.
>>19566 >You assume this was intentional i do, i read an interview with him where he specifically talked about this being intentional. i need to find it again, but i doubt he just used it to make himself look big brained post factum >Again, this isn't incorrect, but it assumes that he was consciously writing this and not just depicting real life. he was doing both according to himself. like i said, the zeitgeist of the time absolutely played a part in how this was written out. in the thatcherite years there was hardly a talk of revolutions or uprisings as depressing as that is, the focus on and depression after the trade unions defeat was too great, so his ending in the context of 80s britain was almost inflammatory while also being despondent at the same time due to the knowledge of how all of this was really just the system eating itself and not some indomitable will of the people or even one person. the most V succeeded at in the end was propaganda by the deed, but like each instance of it irl it led to nothing more than an outburst of momentary emotion, and the party members killing each other only confirms that the biggest damage was caused by the party itself, even to itself. if he wrote v for vendetta in the modern context where the talk of "revolution" (however watered down) is basically a daily occurrence even with libs (either against it or "for" things such as "a diversity revolution" that means more female ceos kek), it would not be as genre defining.
>>19572 >i doubt he just used it to make himself look big brained post factum While one could call Death of Author, I'll take your word on this, since I only bothered to read the book and see the movie.

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