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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join the Matrix: https://www.riot.im/app/#/room/!BnDgjhpLxZoHFVlyFA:matrix.org Visit the Booru: https://lefty.booru.org/ Follow the Twitter: https://twitter.com/bunkerchanLP

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Criminal Syndicalism Anonymous 01/21/2021 (Thu) 19:07:37 No. 1299986 [Reply]
So what's the deal? The power of unions has gotten obliterated in the last hundred or so years. Mostly because of the outlaw of any effective strike action sure but what are some other causes? Seems nowadays the IWW relies on "dual carding" but isn't that just the union equivalent to entryism? Seems like a waste of time to join a yellow business union if you don't have the right to strike. Any wobblies or European syndies have any input? Recommended reading on the subject? >inb4 Settlers
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>>1300004 Appreciate the effort post, mostly made this thread to better understand where we're at. It's obvious the future of unionization will be illegal but that isn't really anything new. As a metaphor i understand syndicalism requires a full house to really play it's hand but seems as if the deck is still being shuffled. I guess it depends on what game we're playing though lol. I am interested in it particularly because it looks to be the way to build class consciousness in the first world. Leninist parties at least in America seem to be not much more than protest orgs and book club meetings. Nobody really joins a party anymore unless they're already a communist. Compared to America before McCarthyism which was noticeably class conscious society. The average worker wasn't scared to publicly discuss their distain for the capitalist class. Even in popular media everyone hated their bosses and poverty was accurately depicted in films.
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I think that if unions want to have some gains need to move towards techno - syndicalism. They need to have presence online, chats and tech Tools to be available for workers in order to save time and money. Take for example voting, could be done with online Tools that don't require paperwork and chats save time for workers on discussing important issues. https://wobbly.app/ This is beign developed currently More Info here : https://notesfrombelow.org/article/an-introduction-to-wobbly Than there are also These: https://unionbase.org/ >The labor movement’s social network and search engine https://www.mittee.org/) >mittee is a mobile application designed to assist with the formation of union organizing committees. also check the projects from https://progcode.org/
>>1300221 lol i know a guy called Negatrot who is trying to make a rival program like wobbly app
>>1300235 the "niggatrot!"
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>>1300221 Interesting future for 21st century organizing >>1300235 Unsurprising Trot behavior

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Disprove Thread OP 01/22/2021 (Fri) 03:23:28 No. 1300334 [Reply]
Disprove Thread Labels if you need something disproven so people can easily see it needs to be disproven, put it in RED .

King Lear 01/09/2021 (Sat) 06:22:14 No. 1230372 [Reply]
/ADG/ - Anti-Dengism General This is a general for Intellectual critique of Dengist China and its supporters worldwide from a Authentic Leftist perspective.
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>>1293662 thanks for not infesting .orge :)
>>1293665 What do you mean?
these motherfuckers always talking about how china is doing poverty shit but motherfucker I want a driving force against capitalism not this stupid fucking shit

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What the "SPLIT" revealed in terms of class consciousness Anonymous 01/21/2021 (Thu) 22:54:26 No. 1300156 [Reply]
(repost from competing site) >inb4 auto ban Before you write this thread down as "another case of baseless/meaningless/hair splitting thread about the split," just hear me out. What I'm going to attempt here is to detect the "level of class consciousness" for every position taken on our so called SPLIT. Before we even begin (and the following section will be an admittedly biased TL;DR:), I'd like to emphasize that all of our responses to the SPLIT are "ours," meaning, coming from this loose community known as "leftypol" – whether from 8ch, .xyz, .org, or .net, from 2014 oldfags or 2020 newfags. Still, I'd like to rely on well established facts (some of us might have missed). It is true, that OldBO's regime (back on 8ch) was rather autocratic, yet it is also true that it was one of the highest-quality posting period in this loosely connected community's history. The "oldSPLIT" (8ch/leftpol) in under months succumb to extreme right posters, whose main line was trying to "prove" that OldBO "was a transhumanist" (no further comments, lol). Still, it says a lot about that "original split" and its moderation policies, laid down by Space_ himself, which included the "loosest moderation approach possible," which, quite predictably ended up as a right wing shithole since the board was hosted on a mainly nazi infested 8ch. .8ch got closed down, and this is where our (first) transition happened. By establishing our "bunker" on bunkerchan.xyz, we were rather enthusiastic. Our vols & users made all efforts to make sure that the userbase will not be lost due to a server change. While on 8ch we had 400-600 PPH, we had like 200 on our new home. With the server change came the dethroning of our OldBO, still, our new moderation team organized itself on the principles of democratic-centralism, meaning that while they recruited their members from the posteriat base, they voted democratically about policy, etc. among them. As time went by, our representatives (vols) started to notice that our OWNER (Space_) kept on lying about our representatives getting server access (the ability to stomp out site bugs, add new features, etc.) and since this went on for more than a year they started working out this site you are reading this OP on. Somebody snitched to Space, who got butthurt about our representatives having a Blan B (this site) and purged them. THIS is where my real post starts, the class analysis proper, if you will. 1. One of the main responses to these series of facts was to completely disregard the economic realities of the happenings (the fact that Space_ was literally a capitalist promising again and again that he'll provide better conditions but never coming through) and turn this into a "cultural issue" about how our vols banned your incelposting/idpol bait/whatever. These people LITERALLY disregarded material realities and inserted instead their petty causes into the situation, confirming their status as "eternal victims." These are the deviationists who put completely aside the material factors (like ownership structures) and pretend that "everything could be all right ONLY IF…" This position is also called "conservatism" whose arch-ideology is basically "if we got rid of [x], everything would be fine!"

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Podcasts? Anonymous 11/24/2020 (Tue) 00:58:57 No. 1164756 [Reply] [Last]
there was a thread on here about em where'd it go ??? any way podcasts resurection edtion
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https://www.futurehistories.today/episoden-blog/ About alternative economic systems, stuff like Parecon and TANS gets discussed. Some episodes are in German, some in English.
Latest TrueAnon ep features a great interview with Norman Finkelstein. I remember on some thread months ago someone posted an extremely based clip of Finkelstein refusing to be browbeat by the crocodile tears of some Zionist girl in a Q&A. I wonder if anyone has the clip
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>>1170276 >Revleft
>>1219750 shut up SIMP

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Did Mao really kill 70 million people? Anonymous 01/19/2021 (Tue) 08:37:25 No. 1297426 [Reply]
Is there any way to prove that Mao really killed 70 million people? Is there any way to debunk it?
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Yes and he should have done more starting with Deng. >>1297426
>>1297426 Yes, you can find their skeletons on the disneyland pirate cove boat ride i think.
>>1297448 By that logic the Spanish Flu's 20-50 million deaths should be counted as victims of capitalism, since it originated in Kansas.
Asking for a friend: does this muh seventy billions brutally murdered by chicoms originate with a certain Adrian Zenz? >>1297426 >Is there any way to prove that Mao really killed 70 million people? No. >Is there any way to debunk it? What's the point about debunking something that's not even attested? You're just wasting your time and lending some veneer of legitimacy to a silly idea. >>1297427 This. Right after WW2, KMT was running things to the ground. Hyperinflation was rampant, yet no one ever points to that. You only hear about it when Venezuela or Zimbabwe comes up. >>1297443 I'm not a maoist, but shit! That was based! >>1299114 I agree he was an amazing military leader and both the survival of the CPC after the massacre suffered at the hands of the KMT and later its comeback to win the civil war and take power in all the mainland are credit to his skills. Regarding his theory, I tend to believe what goes by the name of "maoism" could work only in places with consistent remnants of past modes of exploitation outside of the western world, i.e. see the relative popularity of maoist parties in India and Nepal, plus the Philippines as a special mention. I'm not talking about Peru, because that was a nightmare of a shitshow. All the "western maoism" stuff is fundamentally useless or even poisonous, considering it served to foment anti-Soviet feelings in the western left (especially in places like France, Italy and others where the 1968 shitshow was strongest). That said, on an economic level, China developed and grew when he left the management of economic policy to others, while the biggest fuckups came when he involved himself directly.

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>>1300130 >does this muh seventy billions brutally murdered by chicoms originate with a certain Adrian Zenz? Pretty sure it long predates him, though of course it’s proliferated by the Victims of Communism cunts that spawned him.

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Khmer Rouge stanning thread Anonymous 01/21/2021 (Thu) 14:41:52 No. 1299789 [Reply]
Khmer Rouge and polpot fans thread! >b- but he was cia agent!!! Stfu glasses wearing vietcuck... Now Stan polpot!
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>>1299789 >b- but he was cia agent!!! you know a good comrade when they try to fedjacket him like this
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>>1299789 Sorry Pol Pot, Ho Chi Min is my new best friend
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>>1300068 No problem. If the revisionist spergs hadn' taken power in Hanoi imagine what could have been.
>polpot funny >now laugh

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Civil Conflict Anonymous 01/20/2021 (Wed) 02:16:53 No. 1298028 [Reply] [Last]
Alright leftypol, I would like to start off my post by stating that I am in fact a representative of /pol/, not 4/pol/ as that place is literally unusable at this point. The reason I am telling you this is I would like a honest discussion, and I know you'd probably pick up that I'm not from around here. With that out of the way I'd Like to get the meat of my questions: >Do (you) support a civil conflict? >What is your opinion on accelerationism? From what I have seen I think we all share a common hatred for the current order. see pic rel The way I see it is that secession would be the most peaceful and most beneficial way of solving our current predicament. Do you think this is just a pipe dream or do you think it's possible?
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Thanks for the replies >>1299950 Ok I guess this makes sense Why aren't libs a bigger obstacle than chuds though? They have a much greater middle class character. Is it because they work a level higher than the nation-state through their institutions? In which case, is it a relationship to capitalism or a relationship to democracy that makes you decide whether the state and capital should push you out of the way as a precondition for class struggle? >I want to LARP as a failed reactionary death cult BUT with red atheistics this time You didn't say that about anti imperialist and national liberation struggles. You straight up called the national bourgeoisie progressive, for example in the case of the KMT, and have a whole section of theory dedicated to the rural peasantry and petty bourgeoisie being allies in democratic, non socialist struggle against capitalism What makes us so different? >>1299951 <I dont understand how linear time works I dont get your point. Linear time explains this apparent flip flopping or, to borrow from tortsky, zig zagging >>1299953 >those 2 can exist side by side in the world, and even coexist in the same country. stop thinking in absolutes. How can these two be true at the same time? That they aren't is the basis of this labor aristocracy settler colonial stuff that makes the American petty bourgeoisie, particularly the white and rural, so reactionary The other poster talks about us joining working class movements. To my knowledge >>1299953 >ehhhhh youre simplifying things so hard it would be meaningless to even discuss this Isn't the revolutionary nature of capitalism, even in an imperialist country, thanks to globalization, the basis of lesser evilism? You believe left libs will erode the nation state? You believe capital will remove 'varnishes' on class consciousness by progressing to a refined international capital-international labor antagonism?

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>>1299972 >How can these two be true at the same time? capital digging its own grave is something inherent in the process of the expansion of capital. through the falling rate of profit and increasing alienation of the workers, this trend is inevitable and always progressing, on a large time scale at least. however its the way down, capitalism is extremely destructive (through imperialism for example) and it also wont end completely on its own, hence the need for revolution. ill comment on the other things you said in a few minutes
alright im back after eating dinner >>1299972 >Isn't the revolutionary nature of capitalism, even in an imperialist country, thanks to globalization, the basis of lesser evilism? no. left libs might be the lesser evil in the short term, but the relative comfort they bring only prolongs the slow death of capitalism. people are more likely to rise up if theyre not comfortable. >You believe left libs will erode the nation state? no lol, obviously not >You believe capital will remove 'varnishes' on class consciousness by progressing to a refined international capital-international labor antagonism? i understood this as capitalism hightening class conflict as time goes on, although english isnt my first language so it might be wrong if thats what you meant, yes. but not necessarily always, there still exists the possibility of lowering class conciousness, as has been happening for quite some time in the west. again, capitalism itself can lead to higher class consciousness while the forces that protect capital will try to lower it, those can coexist. >And so the PMC neolib is more progressive than the petit bourgeois hick, despite having a wildly greater connection to capitalism, the state, and imperialism? the PMC neolib is certainly more "progressive" on the issues of gender, race etc but i assume you mean in regards to capitalism honestly, im not sure. ideologically i think most libs are closer to being anticapitalist than the petit bourgeious conservative, but they still have to cross the huge border of understanding class struggle and the problems with capitalism from a material standpoint the petit bourgeois seem to be closer to gaining class consciousness, while ideologically they are farther away, even though they have more to gain from a revolution. so honestly, im not sure how to answer this. goes to show how similar these two groups really are.

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>>1300038 >let me ask you some questions tho, youre a right winger, right? why? Because I think you guys cucked on imperialism as soon as populism reared its head and you needed to emphasize the reactionary nature of the petty bourgeoisie and national capital in relation to liberals and international capitalism. I also think you did a lot of leg work to reframe the crisis in neoliberalism as a crisis in hidebound structures such as the nation state and white people not being able to support the more universal scale of growth neoliberalism is based on So I abandoned the left because opportunism only begets opportunism, left contradictions rationalize the right wing in a way right wing ideas proper never do. I still showed up for Bernie and I have friends in the antifa LARP but I dont believe in any of it and my ex got me kicked out of my org Now I talk to you guys because I noticed since 2017-18 more and more dissident or anti idpol socialists. >who do you think you or other right wingers are fighting for and against who? For decentralization and against the heights of capital, the state, and civil society (PMC) For social bonds that stop people from falling in between the gaps, crushed by atomization, and being reduced to a commodity So basically, rehumanizing people after capitalism robbed them of dignity I'll reply to the rest later, but thanks for the comprehensive reply
>>1299972 >>1300065 >Because I think you guys cucked on imperialism as soon as populism reared its head and you needed to emphasize the reactionary nature of the petty bourgeoisie and national capital in relation to liberals and international capitalism. who is "you guys" here? and what exactly do you mean by cucked on imperialism? leftists care greatly about imperialism and whatever can be done to stop it. i do agree on us being distracted by reactionaries sometimes, although i think thats a much bigger issue online. >I also think you did a lot of leg work to reframe the crisis in neoliberalism as a crisis in hidebound structures such as the nation state and white people not being able to support the more universal scale of growth neoliberalism is based on there isnt really a single crisis in neoliberalism, the whole thing is a crisis in itself. the nation state has little to do with neoliberalism and i fail to see how white people in particular have anything to do with your point although its possible im just not understanding your point, your writing is extremely vague desu, please be more clear where do you see opportunism in the left? or contradictions? >and my ex got me kicked out of my org if this were 4chan id make fun of you but we are more civilized here, heh >For decentralization and against the heights of capital right wing ideology is inherently capitalistic tho, even fascism. maybe you are fighting against capital, i dont know what you believe, but the right wing in general serves capital and capital only. >the state the only right wingers are the ones who want freer markets and "smal guberment" because the koch brothers told them so, and even they are usually police and military fetishists, so im not seein it. >and civil society (PMC)

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Anonymous 01/21/2021 (Thu) 20:18:05 No. 1300058 [Reply]
There will be people who will actually give in to the political correctness and look at politics as just another tool to manipulate. I think the question is: what will happen to the bigoted and extreme left-wing subreddits that were largely built on the back of 9/11 ? They were the beginning of the end to the cultural revolution, and we are currently living through a second peak of the 20 th century. The rise of the far- right is another case of the same. I would also like to think that the rise of the alt- right in recent years has had a lot to do with the rise of the new left , but the problem is that the new left is mostly made up of liberals (the only difference between them is that the old left had a lot more money than the new right and were more concerned with the money of the establishment than the people they represented).
>>1300058 this is just a word salad
>>1300059 radlib CIA lumpen agent Kochinski?
what the fuck are you trying to say? take your meds.

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NKVD stupid question Anonymous 01/21/2021 (Thu) 19:39:27 No. 1300022 [Reply]
Do you think that KGB was founded because NKVD had very high concentration of jews in high ranking positions ? Was this power move done by Stalin ? Was it good thing or needed ?
>>1300022 It was founded because the NKVD was full of Beria supporters (since he ran the organization for years) and Khrushchev and friends wanted to consolidate their power.


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