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/leftypol/ is a non-sectarian board for leftist discussion. Join the Matrix: https://www.riot.im/app/#/room/!BnDgjhpLxZoHFVlyFA:matrix.org Visit the Booru: https://lefty.booru.org/ Follow the Twitter: https://twitter.com/bunkerchanLP

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Anarchism general Anonymous 01/10/2021 (Sun) 07:37:34 No. 1232250
A tread to exchange theory, ideas or for answering any questions people might have on anarchism hard mode: no loaded questions or useless insults without actually saying anything FAQ: Q. What is anarchism? A. Anarchism (from Ancient Greek ἄναρχος, anarchos: ἀ- = "no", ἀρχός = "ruler") is a philosophical and political theory that is in constant opposition to authority. Be it government, capitalism, patriarchy, racism, or any of the many other systems of oppression, anarchists will resist and strive to organize our lives based on free association and the ability for every individual to live the life they want without the suppression of one against the other This is a simplistic definition that might ignore some outliers but can give you a general idea. It is also the definition I wrote for the upcoming website of a anarchist group I'm member of Q. What even is a state? A. Ask 10 anarchists and you will get 11 different answers, but this is what malatesta defined it: <Anarchists generally make use if the word "State" to mean all the collection of institutions, political, legislative, judicial, military, financial, etc., by means of which management of their own affairs, the guidance of their personal conduct, and the care of ensuring their own safety are taken from the people and confided to certain individuals, and these, whether by usurpation or delegation, are invested with the right to make laws over and for all, and to constrain the public to respect them, making use of the collective force of the community to this end. Q. What would a anarchist society look like? A. There is a wide variety of opinions on the topic, so you can't get into too much detail without showing any personal bias. But this model includes some popular ideas: A society that reflects anarchism values the rules you live under (since cooperation with other humans and a structure to keep them together is needed if you dont want to live as a animal) will not be decided by anyone else for you, whether that is from a ruling minority or a majority agreeing to do things a certain way. Instead groups would be formed by mutual interest and goals (free association), and the program and decisions this association will take will be decided by the group through discussion until a general agreement is reached. However, since these free associations (also sometimes called "communes" or "syndicates") can, by their design, not be large enough to be self sustainable, they will form confederations with other free association, and those confederations can in turn make confederations of confederations, et cetera. Q. Where can I read up on anarchism? A. Here is my personal reading list: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/errico-malatesta-anarchy https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/errico-malatesta-anarchism-and-organization https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/errico-malatesta-democracy-and-anarchy https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/pierre-joseph-proudhon-what-is-property-an-inquiry-into-the-principle-of-right-and-of-governmen https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/pierre-joseph-proudhon-what-is-property-an-inquiry-into-the-principle-of-right-and-of-governmen https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/pierre-joseph-proudhon-what-is-property-an-inquiry-into-the-principle-of-right-and-of-governmen https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/emma-goldman-anarchism-and-other-essays https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/jason-mcquinn-post-left-anarchy-leaving-the-left-behind https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/max-stirner-the-unique-and-its-property https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/serafinski-blessed-is-the-flame
>>1232250 This is an actually good thread but knowing leftypol it‘s gonna turn into shitflinging
I have read everything here and honestly I respect malatesta and durruti but I cant comprehend why you would be a anarchist (libertarian) without being a religious zealot or anarchist ( aristocratic)
Ok to get the ball rolling ,how would you guys balance consensus with voting ?
>>1232250 Imagine being an anarchist when you could be an Anarch Sad
>>1232250 Why can't anarchists pull off a successful revolution?
>>1232300 What do you qualify as “successful”?
>>1232301 Actually seizing and holding onto power over a sizable territory for an extended period of time
What are the anarchists of /leftypol/'s plans to keep their organizations ideologically coherent? Here, all of our anarchist groups have become liberals who believe anarchism is when you have small government and a social contract.
>>1232307 >Here Where's "Here"?
>>1232305 3-20 years is a pretty long time
>>1232313 I'm not sure I'd consider 3 long but I would consider 20 long. I'll set the cutoff point at 5 years.
>>1232307 Anarchists need to start purging phonies more often. I've been reading on how some anarchist organizations in the Russian revolution had monarchists infiltrating them and didn't do anything to stop them because that would've been unlibertarian or something. It keeps happening today.
>>1232311 Australia. But the Anglo world in general seems to share this problem.
>>1232319 Ah I see. Do you think Australian anarchists should get the wall when the revolution comes?
>>1232305 In that case I pull off successful revolutions with the gf atleast 3 times per week
>>1232324 How long do you have sex for, anon?
>>1232324 How much of a sizeable territory is your gf?
>>1232328 An extended period of time >>1232329 Sizable enough to be buxom without being a chubster. Cozy
Why was the most successful "anarchist" revolution in Catalonia just ML in black dye? Why do you stan Makhno when platformism is just vanguard party in black dye? Why do you stan Rojava when its Maoism in black dye?
>>1232337 >x thing is actually y thing in z color Why are MLs so retarded?
>>1232334 No shit but how long is an extended period of time
>>1232338 You're both retarded NazBol is the final synthesis t. successfully carries out nazbol revolutions against buxom ex-conservative gf thrice weekly
>>1232341 >t. successfully carries out nazbol revolutions against buxom ex-conservative gf thrice weekly only thrice? Weak ass nigga
>>1232339 20 mins tender kisses and cuddles 20 mins hotter foreplay 20 mins hard hot and nasty intercourse 20 mins tender pillow talk and basking in the afterglow It's all they really want - plus an unspoken understanding that you won't put up with any bitchy bullshit
>>1232343 More than that and they get spoiled Furthermore - sex should only be engaged in with full balls
>>1232324 based
>>1232347 >More than that and they get spoiled Don't take it personal , but as long as I use Imageboards, I will always asume the Anon on the other side is some sort of Loser. So you trash talking like that is pretty funny >sex should only be engaged in with full balls So at least 5 times a week?
How do Anarchists address the following critisims: 1) Anarchy creates a power vacuum 2) Anarchy can't deal with bad actors 3) Anarchy can't compete against an organized military.
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>>1232353 >I will always asume the Anon on the other side is some sort of Loser Everyone is some sort of loser in some respect. I'm too smart for jocks and too domineering for nerds. I'm also shit at football. >So at least 5 times a week? The average is 2.5 days from ejaculation to a full reload. Nature has obviously blessed you. Lucky sod.
>>1232361 Ah, so you can't address them
>>1232322 >le revolution >le wall Please stop LARPing. But, to answer your question, no. They need to be dealt with well before then, because they're a cancer cell that spreads to other leftist organizations and ruins them. Our IWW wound up being destroyed as a result of """"anarchist"""" radlib organizations joining it. It went from having support of our steelworkers unions and other organizations, into being nothing but a student activist group, because skilled organizers grew sick of dealing with them and left the organization all together, and the """"anarchist"""" groups left over decided to declare them part of the white male patriarchy. My belief is that anarchists, as in, actual anarchists, not the anarcho-libtards that have come to represent them, absolutely need to come up with a better organizational structure so that they stop being taken over by liberals. My experience with anarchist organizations here is that they are either affinity groups too small to achieve anything, or have a "democratic" structure with few controls of who does and doesn't get in. Which means they inevitably get co-opted by the dramatically larger liberal-progressive "left". I would like to hear anarchist's experiences with this and their thoughts on how to stop it.
>>1232361 It's a simple and honest question.
>>1232367 He gave you a simple an honest answer Anarchists are hopeless naive idealists MLs meanwhile are just ontologically flawed
>>1232369 >Anarchists are hopeless naive idealists It is what it is.
>>1232344 So..everyone on bunkerchan is a faggot. Got it.
>>1232363 >Everyone is some sort of loser in some respect True words >The average is 2.5 days from ejaculation to a full reload. Nature has obviously blessed you. Lucky sod. Nah, not really. I just don't wait that long usually. They don't have to be completely filled. I normally wait 1.5 days and go again. That should be long enough imo
>>1232371 >fucking women right for mutual satisfaction is gay Kek ok Reality ain't a porno fren
>>1232372 >I normally wait 1.5 days and go again. That should be long enough imo 1/ You become addicted and dull your dopamine receptors as well as becoming fixated on sex 2/ Your wench subconsciously recognises this weakness and exploits it while losing respect for you
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>>1232366 Pic related. This liberal splinter infected the Melbourne Anarchist Club and falsely claimed the deed to their HQ. The "MANARCHIST!!!" sabotage was just someone coming in and drawing a swastika because they decided not to pay security. The IWW wound up being saddled with these types of retards after they helped the original anarchists in the group kick them out, as the event was enough to make most of the people with an actual grasp of anarchism leave the organization.
>>1232366 they cant change anything due to the fact that it would literally contradict everything they believe in
>>1232378 >Your wench You talk to your woman like that? You stated she is a ex Consevative, so maybe she likes it this way?
>anarchist thread >all about sex and drugs
>>1232378 >1/ You become addicted and dull your dopamine receptors as well as becoming fixated on sex Yeah, I know. I need to watch out, if I don't want to become a Coomer
>>1232293 What do you mean? >>1232359 The burden of proof is on you to prove those are problems to begin with
>>1232366 That is not my experience. So I am simply not familiar with this problem to begin with
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>>1232401 >The burden of proof is on you to prove those are problems That's the best answer you got LMAO!? 1) All successful institutions engage in vertical and horizontal integration of their production and maintenance process while also seeking to expand their influence. The benefit of which is independence, stability, security and influence. Since Anarchy seeks the precise opposite of localized and democratic powers this proves that anarchy is both a power vacuum and prone to instability. In short: how do you deal with a force that is self-reliant, better organized, more influential and propagates itself amidst your sphere of influence? 2) There always exists a number of people that behave in selfish ways benefiting from the harm they bring on society as a whole. For example someone who exploits natural resources and hires a bunch of guards to protect himself and his assets. A militia can easily be bribed and what else is there for anarchists to do? Cry about the NAP? 3) The history of anarchic military forces is an absolute joke. They never managed to last more than a few years after centuries of theorizing and LARPing.
>>1232440 be more subtle with your polfaggotry next time
>>1232446 Call it polfaggotry all day long are you ever going to give a proper response?
>>1232449 it's an impressively low quality text ,maybe it would fly in 4chan or someone else would like to shitpost with you but it won't be me
>>1232452 >still no arguments Guess talking about drug addiction and sex is a better use of time for the mind of the anarchist
>>1232445 I don't remember there being an anarchist society in Rio
>>1232445 What this about and why should I read it?
>>1232440 >Selfish meme Even a tankie knows this is retarded
>>1232470 >selfish people don't exist >what is good for the individual is also good for society and visa versa Levels of delusion that shouldn't even be possible.
>>1232462 The basics of especifismo ,organizing compact anarchist groups and how they should interact with and try to influence more wide social movements
Welp this place is already a shit show. Genuine question for anarchists, by an anarchist: What would be people's organizational method for distributing mined materials from asteroids to any entity on the globe? Assuming the mining operation is an anarcho-syndicalist union. What I'm brainstorming currently is: Using cybernetic planning, each regional economy could input their needs into some program. The planning program could then automatically calculate how much material and where it needs to be distributed to the mining union. I'm unsure if people running this program should be democratically elected or if it should be run as another union. What are people's thoughts on the whole process? Is mining asteroids not necessary for example?
>>1232316 so yes, anarchists are successful then. cope tankie
>>1232301 >knowing leftypol it‘s gonna turn into shitflinging >immediately takes bait By far and away one of the worst posters on this site.
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>>1232369 >MLs are hopeless naive idealists fixed god is dead and the only remnant of it is the state your position is the idealist one worshiping a world that doesn't exist and never will
The following can be applied to Syndicalism generally but there is a new trend that needs to addressed and specifically by Anarchists. I have recently been wondering about the rise of Anarcho-syndicalism amongst a very new and typically young left. Quite rarely among these new recruits do they ever talk about the form of the union itself; rarely do they seem to understand that the syndicalism of the past, think CNT-FAI, USI, IWW (of old), etc., came from militant unions and not the bourgeois-reformist ventures like the almost-entire face of unions today. At least this is the case in the 'west' where a lot of these people reside. Were this sort of militancy to be a feature of a contemporary union the outcome is very clear. I know for a fact that a lot of renewed interest has come from, not that it is bad at all. The public intellectual we all know: Noam Chomsky. Everybody knows you can see lectures of his very easily on Youtube and a quick glimpse of his Wikipedia shows his ideological leanings, follow it up with a little Youtube search and you've got some very easily digestible, but altogether quite face-level, descriptions and histories of the movement. We all know that general literacy and interest in reading generally has dropped as the internet has begun to spread its tendrils into every corner of life. So it would not surprise me if this is a very common path. It certainly was for agent Kochinski as I have heard him parrot Chomsky's ideas word for word on the few unfortunate occasions I have watched him; most recently agent Kochinski mentioned to Hakim that he'd use electoralism to 'help' trade unions which is laughable beyond belief but this is a common belief amongst the new faction of Anarcho-syndicalists. Liberalism begetting liberalism but under the shade of a red and black flag. I would like some responses to this since I rarely see comment on such failure to consider contemporary conditions as such and if anyone has any good resources on the general trend to liberalise unions themselves. GMB isn't taking up arms in the revolution, GMB is making concessions on behalf of the state to quash it. This is a no-flame post.
Fuck off. This is a ML board
>>1232675 It's not and never has been a board exclusive to any ideology: PEEP THE RED AND BLACK LOGO. The diseased minds of new /leftypol/ are astounding
>>1232675 Speak for yourself.
>>1232250 >Personal reading list doesn't have The Conquest of Bread So close to perfection!
>>1232543 >your position is the idealist one I'm not ML. Regardless - all positions arise within the mind and are thus idealist >god is dead Proof? >the only remnant of it is the state An hegelian assertion taken as a given.Interesting
>>1232391 How do you think I converted her to NazBol? That and the aforementioned revolutions
>>1232361 >>1232401 so this is the power of anarchist thought...
>>1232528 As we have already seen, anarchists are not interested in answering genuine questions.
>>1232792 We would, if the Marxist position wasn't an inherently dishonest one
>>1232250 Anarchy could work AFTER communism. It requires everyone to be woke which wont happen until based state funded education happens. Too many retarded brainwashed proles for it to work in the near future.
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>>1232838 it will wither away bro
>>1232838 >it only works in theory!!!!!!!
You know this site is dead when it's only inhabited by nazis and no one wants to endlessly pile on anarchists anymore
>>1232957 >MUH NATZEE fucking liberals
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>>1232957 Maybe people have just realized that we are correct?
>>1232957 they can have an area if they stay in their area i don't give a fuck
>>1232440 >what is an army
>>1232250 Tell me what are you going to do. The question of how an anarchist society will look has much more detail than the question of how an anarchist society will be achieved. The social democrats have their voting, the tankies and the trotskyists can LARP that 1917 is coming back, the posadists look to the stars, what do anarchists do? please tell me it's something better than >well we just convince everyone to be anarchists
>>1233043 No.Read a book.
>>1232732 >or organizational platform of the general union of anarchists >or anarchism and anarcho-syndicalism >or at the cafe
>>1233048 I'm not going to read a book on an ideology with no prospects of being implemented. If I wanted to sit around playing theologian of a dead religion I'd become a generic ML.
>>1233056 Well get fucked then.
>>1233056 No. Read a book
>>1233060 it's always fun to watch a group struggling to find members reject people for not meeting their "high" standards.
>>1233062 >>1233048 >nobody actually says which book tells you the strategy for how we go from capitalism to anarchism because it doesn't exist
>>1233043 >well we just convince everyone to be anarchists This is actually Noam Chomsky's belief: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_x0Y3FqkEI
>>1233063 Oh no anon won't vote for us in the next elections : (
>>1232537 Name (1) anarchist society that has lasted 5 years or more, other than some college kids occupying a few blocks of a city (e.g. Exarchia).
>>1232605 >agent Kochinski Mentioning this guy should be a bannable offense
>>1232675 This. Anarkiddies are delusional if they think their brand of liberalism belongs on the left.
>>1233081 As the great socialist Mark Cuban said "It doesn't matter how many times you fail. You only have to be right once"
>>1233070 credit to you, i missed >>1233057 the first time round. and while a brief skim suggests it's much more "here's what we'll do when we take power" than "here's how we're going to take power", there is an approximate answer in the form: >When diesel fuel is $15 or $20 a gallon and the supermarket shelves are usually mostly empty, likewise, people will snatch produce and cheese off the tables as fast as it's placed there at the farmer's market. Ornamental lawns will be replaced by intensive gardens and edible landscaping, and home baking, brewing or sewing skills will be a valuable means not only of supplying oneself but of obtaining surplus goods in trade from the neighbors. >This will all be done, not through some centralized agenda, but through the spontaneous learning curve of the people themselves in the face of necessity mission accomplished.
>>1233092 Ah, you can't name one, I see.
>>1233081 The Sarvodaya Shramadana Movement, Marinaleda, Fejuve, Puerto Real, Barbacha, the Zapistas, and Rojava And all of these still exist
>>1232272 exactly why cia.gov was necessary
Oh no tankies ain't gonna like that
So what are your takes on the anabaptist, the Calvinist movements, and the general unrest that happened in 16th century Europe? Was that period an archaic or feudal expression of proletarian discontent?
>>1235420 > Was that period an archaic or feudal expression of proletarian discontent? What you mean ? i think it had a clear anti-nobility character but it's been years since i have relevant books
>>1233111 >Rojava >Anarchist bruh.
>>1235960 I don’t care they’re anarchist enough for me
I just watched jregs newest video and now I'm an expert
>>1236256 >>1233111 all of these are allowed to exist to some extent you fucking clown, I have nothing against these movements but i am against you being a clown
>>1233102 nothing will go wrong with this nothing at all
>>1233081 Why does anarchy have to be bigger than 'a few state blocks' (literally nobody but you stupid fucking burgers knows how large a block is. use a real unit of measurement yanke cuck.) to be valid? what does this prove or disprove?
>>1236886 >Because otherwise anarchism can't exist without capitalism providing goods and services Why? >, as that was the case with CHAZ Nobody cares about chaz you fucking dumb yanke.
>>1236907 >What do you mean by why, Name a single anarchist commune that managed to be self sufficient and didn't collapse Lmao. meet anarchists you massive fucking newfag, I have personally been to many that are pretty if not almost totally self sufficient. >Nobody cares about CHA The fact that you people can only ever point at one failed experiment shows your retardation though anon, it proves that you are disingenuous.
>>1236551 >all of these are allowed to exist to some extent you fucking clown, No fucking shit every country that is not at war is “allowed to exist”
>>1232250 cringe general
>>1237091 wow so funny i "kek'd" hard
>>1232293 Where does the consensus meme even come from? Sure, you hear that from contemporary US Anarchists, but was that a thing 50 or 100 years ago? Platformists and the IWW seem to just run relatively normal meetings with majority vote.
>>1236822 >Why does anarchy have to be bigger than 'a few state blocks' Because establishing anarchy in 0.25 sq km area with 500 people is not much of an achievement
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>>1237048 no bro please stop being a clown and pretending this is some revolutionary shit just build a co-op in some shanty towns in Mexico because that's as far you'll go with your shit ideology or whatever the fuck you like to call it
>>1237337 Cry about it more
>>1237210 Lots of anarchists groups were trying it for a while, mostly i think tail end of the anti-globalization movement and through early 2000's. afaik it's most are critical of it now, at least in my experience. >>1236927 >Name them then It glows. Parts of ZAD come to mind. various protest sites. >>1237246 >Because establishing anarchy in 0.25 sq km area with 500 people is not much of an achievement Have you personally achieved more in your life recently?
>>1290960 >Have you personally achieved more in your life recently? No and neither have anarkiddies
test
>>1232542 he is just extremely autistic
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>>1237210 >even come from? the coat man
>>1291146 Malatesta advocated for consensus much earlier
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Why is Bakunin not more popular in English speaking countries?
This is leftypol, not radlibpol. Get out and stay out, unless you’re eager to make a fool out of yourself
>>1291798 Good one friendo
>>1291809 Don’t you have twitter trannoids to suck up to Batko?
>>1291822 What?

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