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📈/crisis/ General📉 Comrade 08/05/2019 (Mon) 07:43:55 No. 8552
💰️DOW/Market Watch Thread💰️ monitoring the market, trends, fluctuations, etc. 🎩 👀 🐽 👄
Edited last time by krates on 11/26/2020 (Thu) 02:41:50.
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>>1044068 Here we go
VIX nearly 40 DAX down almost 4%
>>1044079 I don't know if I believe we will see massive drops like we did early in the year. But, we have been slowly going down over the last 3 months.
>>1044114 Economic condition are also not getting better. The collapse is in motion now, but it's not at the breaking point yet. The best comparison is probably the mid 2008. Bankers knew how fucked it was, the public just didn't.
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Holy fuck
>>1044152 >>1044154 >>1044162 Inshallah we shall reach 25k by the end of the week.
Wow i cant believe you commies are still coping this hard lol I thought you learned your lesson after the economy recovered 100%
>>1044162 If it manages to fucking implode again, even after the terminal POOMP, the economy's fucking done for.
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>>1044162 How low shall we go today?
>>1044183 >it happened before >therefore it will happen again maybe, maybe not
What caused this -700 drop?
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>>1044189 holy fuck
>>1044197 I miss having audio on the trade floor.
>>1044189 -800 as a minimum to keep it spicy
TURKISH LIRA TO 8,26 Hyperinflation and foreign debt crisis for the Turkish economy will follow but only if you comment "F*ck you, you watermelon seller" under this post
>>1044213 F*ck you, you watermelon seller
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>>1044197 its dropping faster than i thought it would looks like poomps are failing hard
>>1044213 Fuck you, watermelon seller
>>1044222 TRIPS OF TRUTH
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They pumping
do we see a crash below 20k this year? god i hope
>>1044236 We already had one
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>>1044240 yeah before the feds pumped it back, I don't think the dollar can take another trillion $ pump
>>1044247 the dollar can take anything since it's what all the rest of the world's economies are based on
VIX 40
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We're going -1000 today boys
>>1044284 oh shit, porky, what are you doing?
>>1044213 F*ck you, you watermelon seller
What will Trump's reelection do for the stock market?
>>1044315 if he wins? massive pump if he loses? unprecedented dump
>>1044315 Seems pretty irelevant they will get infinite poomp either way
Is it finally happening bros?
3 consecutive days of drooping. Hopes it's finally happening bros. Feeling like march again.🥰
>>1044403 The best time of year.
>the bounce how long does the pump last
How it feels to be BTFO everywhere you go, commietard?
>>1037943 >boomerchan >youth hangout
>>1037967 >and I've been on too many communities to have let a bubble form. It also helps avoid bubbles if you seek out communities that don't agree with you. Have you ever tried to leave your house instead?
>>1037976 What’s the stat for tiktok? They had to ban it so I’d think it was huge chunk.
>>1044278 >>1044403 I asked 800, it seems my wishes were granted. Any updates?
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-900 -900 -900 -900
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I've been at work the entire week, what happened?
>>1044622 line go down again
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>>1044500 ahahahahaahahahahahhahahaha look at this fucking retard ahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhahaaaaaa
>>1044610 GIMME 1000 OR GIVE ME DEATH
>>1044610 please DJIA, my dick can only get so hard
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Is today the day lads?????
Ok but what caused this drop?
>>1044817 your mom fell down the stairs, causing a seismic even that nivelated entire city blocks and completelly destroyed all the remaining american infraestructure
>>1044834 >no stimulus plan in sight in the US I would've thought this would raise stock >>1044838 Nice
>>1044840 >I would've thought this would raise stock an injection of wealth into the economy is a growth signal; the negation of this is obviously a contraction signal. They're porkies but they're not stupid
>>1044840 >I would've thought this would raise stock companies want more no strings attached money from the government
How did it close?
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>>1044840 >I would've thought this would raise stock Literally, the only thing poomping the market to go up is the stimulus package. The U.S. economy is braindead like a giant zombie.
>>1045001 is 3% really that much for DOW?
>>1045001 NICE. Tomorrow's based threshold: 500 points.
>>1045059 Yes, but not crisis level, like we were seeing in March. Look for 5% - 10% drops.
>>1045001 Are we back, lads??? >Stonks not reaching 30k once again Eternal porky BTFO
Whatever happened to "no more lockdowns"?
>>1045269 wasn't that only a US thing
>>1045237 still livid all this after the big drop.
>>1045001 this.
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Futures had a big poomp all night but now they look like they're starting to tank again right before open. Is this another happening day?
>>1047353 I think we might see -2% today. Especially if there are more terror attacks in France.
>>1047367 >>1047353 wasnt yesterdays drop due to covid? -3%
>>1047353 Under 26000 would be based, under 25000 would be legendary
>>1047367 What's going on in France? Are jihadists murdering people again?
>>1047388 I want them to go back under 20k
>>1047392 Good times. :^)
>>1047392 You and the rest of us
>>1047386 Tbh I think we should stop looking for specific triggers for the drops, Capitalism basically suffered a fatal heart attack with the March droop and the porky states have had it on life support since then, whenever they stop poomping the market starts doomping
>>1047391 Some teacher got his head chopped off by some islamist from Chechnya. Doesn’t seem to be connected to any organized effort.
>>1047429 Lmao based islamist
>>1047391 Looks like IVPITER has made the prophet worshippers angry worldwide. Some guy stabbed 3 in Niza today and another "was killed"(or arrested I can't remember) in Avignon. Plus some minor attack against a consulate in Saudi Cuckdom.
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>>1047745 blue line is going straight down is today the big day?
U.S. Economy Expands at Record 33.1% Pace After Covid-19 Plunge >The U.S. economy bounced back with a record yet temporary surge of growth in the third quarter as businesses reopened and stimulus cash powered consumer spending -- reversing much of the collapse stemming from coronavirus lockdowns. >Just as the second-quarter plunge in output was the biggest in seven decades of data, so too was the third-quarter recovery: Gross domestic product grew 7.4%, a quarterly gain that equals an annualized pace of 33.1%, the Commerce Department’s initial estimate showed Thursday. >The figure topped economists’ estimates for a 32% increase, which was already well above forecasts three months ago for an 18% gain. Personal spending fueled the surge in growth, climbing an annualized 40.7%, also a record, while business investment and housing also posted strong increases. <While the report makes clear that the economy has found a solid footing for now, analysts caution that growth will be much more modest and choppy in months to come, especially as the spread of the virus gathers pace again and lawmakers remain in an extended deadlock over a new stimulus package. <Moreover, there are still nearly 11 million fewer workers on payrolls than there were before the pandemic hit, and analysts say a full recovery in GDP is at least several quarters away. >Even with the outsize gain, GDP is 3.5% below its pre-pandemic peak, and the virus will keep business and jobs depressed in sectors like travel and restaurants. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-29/u-s-economy-expands-at-record-33-1-pace-after-covid-plunge U.S. Jobless Claims Declined More Than Forecast Last Week >Applications for U.S. state unemployment benefits fell more than forecast last week, suggesting the labor market remains on the path of gradual improvement -- while still far from its pre-pandemic health. >Initial jobless claims in regular state programs totaled 751,000 in the week ended Oct. 24, down 40,000 from the prior week, Labor Department data showed Thursday. On an unadjusted basis, the figure decreased by a little more than 28,000. >Continuing claims -- the total pool of Americans on ongoing state unemployment benefits -- decreased 709,000 to 7.76 million in the week ended Oct. 17. Continuing claims have fallen for five straight weeks. <Still, the number of Americans on emergency assistance programs rose as many unemployed exhausted regular state benefits. <The decline in continuing claims coincided again with an increase in Americans on Pandemic Emergency Unemployment Compensation, a federal program that provides an additional 13 weeks of benefits. That figure rose by more than 387,000 to 3.68 million in the week ended Oct. 10. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-29/u-s-jobless-claims-declined-more-than-forecast-last-week
>>1047792 so what porky is coming back? guess all those trillions spent on stimulus did work, at least for the stock market
>>1047810 Basically GDP growth is higher than expected (keep in mind 33% would be the annual rate), but things will probably get worse before they get better. Also, while jobless claims are going down, the amount of people on extended aid is going up. In other words, while job losses have slowed down, the amount of people who became unemployed and are unable to find new jobs has increased.
>>1047769 Speaking of sell-off: Selling Pressure in U.S. Stocks Keeps Testing Most-Extreme Level >The ferocity of the U.S. stock rout on Wednesday sent a measure of selling pressure to near the most extreme on record -- an occurrence that’s become increasingly frequent in the past two months. >The number of shares falling on the New York Stock Exchange exceeded those rising by 1,957 at the height of the selloff, sending the NYSE TICK Index to the second-lowest level since June. The gauge registered its most extreme reading ever that month, and has come close six times since then. >The resurgent pandemic, lack of new U.S. stimulus and looming presidential election are all contributing to investor nervousness. Combined with this year’s equity rebound and elevated volatility, it is leaving traders ready to hit the “sell” button. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-29/selling-pressure-in-u-s-stocks-keeps-testing-most-extreme-level
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>>1047846 The truth about GDP growth 33%
get ready for your crypto nonsense again as porky dumps his cash into virtual swiss vaults in preparation for the crash https://money.cnn.com/data/fear-and-greed/ https://alternative.me/crypto/fear-and-greed-index/ honestly i am of the opinion that crypto at this point is a fucking swiss frank substitute for the modern age, so when it goes up get ready for shit going down
>>1047925 Would you elaborate?
>>1047941 The truth is that GDP growth was only 7.41% compared to the second quarter, and if compared with the third quarter of 2019, it still had negative growth of -2.91%.
>>1047536 <A teacher got brutally murdered >Lmao based islamist You get the wall, psycho
>>1047792 >Personal spending fueled the surge in growth What is personal spending?
>>1049362 They've been promised corporate stimulus at least by January. Stimulus for the working class is off the table for the most part. Pelosi was offered $250 billion in state aid, $600 enhanced unemployment and $1200 stimulus checks but declined on account of the resistance deciding that $500 billion in state aid is non-negotiable. Whether DOW can surge on the promise of corporate aid alone remains to be seen, but probably it can considering that DOW Jones is more reflective of how the rich are economically faring than how the working class is faring.
>>1049383 I know all that, lel. I am just wanting a 25K drop.
>>1049383 The ruse is basically this: 1st) If they negotiate a stimulus package before the election than that's probably going to be the last coronavirus stimulus package and politicians would by necessity need to meet more financial needs of the working class than they would post-election. By waiting until after the election both democrats and republicans can direct more money to corporate america than pre-election. 2nd) If Biden wins you will hear barely a peep out of progressives and liberals because of how relieved they are that orange man lost. He can simply say that sending out stimulus checks and enhanced unemployment hurts his moderate "healing the country" mandate and the purple state democrats. Thus in January he only needs to pass maybe a $1.5 trillion package mostly corporate aid while politicians like AOC are basically further integrated into the establishment and thrown a bone like $200 extra unemployment or food stamps. They'll also claim they're saving medicaid and social security while preserving their majority. The threat is always the other side so they'll make a faux effort to stack the court. Vote blue no matter who guys! 3rd) If democrats lose than republicans block passage of anything not soaking with corporate aid and wait until January if necessary. Progressives get to keep their radical liberal street cred and scare everyone about social security and medicaid (which will slowly be gutted regardless). 4th) No one will be held accountable for ensuring the next stimulus is just more redistribution of wealth to the rich because the shadiest part of the stimulus deal happens directly after an election. Goldfish memory of the public and all. So basically the working class public got fucked yet again, but corporate executives can feel secure they'll be sitting pretty in a few months.
>>1049425 As I mentioned here >>1049436 the rich are more confident now they'll receive more money than they would have if stimulus was passed pre-election. They can afford to wait until January for it. If DOW drops below 25k it will be superficial and from an effort by Wall Street to endorse a bigger piece of the stimulus pie. More likely than not DOW hits 35-40k in the next few years, but only because the vast majority of wealth has been transferred to the shareholder class. The working class will be far more miserable than they've ever been. A better metric of the material and social conditions of the citizenry is reflected in riots, unemployment, wage gap, labor representation and stuff like that.
>>1049474 i.e. assessing the economy as it pertains to the working class based on DOW Jones is similar looking at a 100 new mansions built near The Hamptons and assessing working class living standards in Detroit. High stock market gains are actually more indicative that the working class are doing worse.
>>1049425 >>1049495 Which is probably why you want to see it drop to 25k lol.. Sorry I didn't make that connection right away.
>>1047935 I believe is more speculative. Like, porky could buy gold, but buying crypto is betting your luck. If not, look at march and the big dio that carried that rally.
>>1050945 Gold is too widely used by institutions as a hedge against losses elsewhere. When the selloff occurs it will hit gold too to make up for losses.
DOW Futures -500. Looks like we might get that Halloween crash.
>>1050994 Uh-oh. VIX futures for SP500 also up.
What does the fear and greed index look like?
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>>1050997 They can't pretend we're not in depression if people aren't spending enough during holidays, I guess?
When Trump wins, 30k a few days after his victory.
>>1051154 It won’t even hit 30k this year anymore. Keep dreaming prokyposter
Twitter crashing after subscriber growth slowing
>>1050997 Oh shit porky has blessed us with another happening day. If you want to see DOW -1000+ today respond to this post with "Thanks Porky".
Futures are slowly recovering. It's going to finish green.
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>>1051233 line's going down again.
>>1051780 Nice, let's get to _-500
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this is an extremely unnatural/bearish pattern. likely that a few whales are propping up the price before the weekend close in order to hedge losses. looking good for next week; who knows what'll happen tuesday
>>1052104 why is DOW better to follow than S&P?
>>1052104 any guess at which wales?
>>1051710 fukin saved
>>1052116 slightly more volatile and it tends to *lead* the S&P; S&P trends after DOW, DOW trends after currency shifts and other macroeconomic indicators. >>1052121 this is complete guesswork but I'd imagine it's bullish whales, i.e. federal reserve, various hedge funds, investment bankers, anyone who isn't actively shorting the market etc.
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>>1052104 >>1051780 So close to 25, so close, come down, motherfucker.
>>1052467 Monday and Tuesday will crab, but Wednesday will be a bloodbath, prob over 1000 point drop.
>>1052467 It's pointless, stupid wage slave! It will rise again after Führer Trump's greats victory!
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>>1052546 >yfw when no 30k DJ.
>>1052546 I thought you Porkies would shift to Biden.
Tech Rout Sends Stocks to Worst Week Since March >U.S. stocks dropped, capping their biggest weekly rout since March, after earnings from the largest tech companies disappointed investors concerned that a slowing economy will damp profit. >The Nasdaq 100 declined about 2.6% after Apple Inc.’s iPhone sales and Twitter Inc.’s user growth both missed estimates, though Google parent Alphabet Inc. jumped after reporting a rebound in advertising. The S&P 500 Index dropped 5.6% over the past five days, the worst-ever loss in the week leading to a presidential election. Ten-year Treasury yields jumped to the highest since June. >The tech slump, coming after an unprecedented run higher this year, is adding to volatility that’s likely to remain elevated heading into next week’s U.S. election. Global equities posted the worst weekly decline since March as lockdown measures in some countries and the lack of an agreement on U.S. stimulus dented sentiment. New U.S. coronavirus cases topped 89,000, setting a daily record. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-29/u-s-tech-falls-on-results-asia-stocks-look-mixed-markets-wrap
is it time to stock up on toilet paper yet?
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>>1053211 I think you pile stock bullets, and grenades.
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>>1053237 >he hasn't already stocked up yet
>>1053041 LAW & ORDER!
What do you think is going to happen next week? I suppose it depends on how wins on Tuesday but I imagine Monday's gonna be a drop.
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>>1053930 >What do you think is going to happen next week? I suppose it depends on how wins on Tuesday but I imagine Monday's gonna be a drop. Sounds about right on the money
>>1053930 It actually doesn't matter who wins, because both parties are trying to be "the party of Wall Street". Now whether or not this means line will go up or down is unknown, and probably irrelevant as the status quo where US is at the top does not actually depend on the US itself anymore, unless they actually do something drastic.
>>1053930 A definitive result will cause the market to rally temporarily, especially if Biden wins outright, as the nostalgia for the neoliberal era among porkies takes over. An uncertain result plunges everything into chaos.
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>>1053930 For the U.S. currency: No matter if drumpf or biden wins, it goes down, For the U.S. markets: No matter if drumpf or biden wins, it goes down. For the gold and bitcoin prices: No matter who wins, both go up. For U.S. spending: goes up. For U.S. debt: goes up. Inflation, no matter who wins: goes up.
>This thread Lmao, you commies are pathetic. US is stronger than ever, there is no indication that anything will happen.
>>1054555 You forgot your porky bage, porky
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>>1054555 Hi /pol/
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>>1054555 >US is stronger than ever
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>>1054555 >US is stronger than ever if you actually believe this I feel sorry that you were dropped on the head as a child
>>1054423 inflation won't go up, we are in a deflationary spiral as with all recessions. They'd have to spend like 10 trillion more for actual hardcore inflation to happen and as soon as biden gets elected they will block all further stimulus.
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>>1054584 >inflation won't go up, we are in a deflationary spiral as with all recessions. <PROTIP: THE FED LIES IN THEIR NUMBERS.
>>1054589 thats over years i mean specific for 2020-2021
>>1054597 the statement "inflation won't go up" is fundamentally wrong regardless of the time frame you're talking about
>>1054597 It will go up regardless the year. Look at gold and BTC, if they go up, your acquisitive power goes down, thus inflation happens. Teh U.S. just try to smuggle cheaper products from 2 dollars a month wages countries to counter the inflation, but once those nth world countries their economies fall into desmise, the U.S. can't no longer depend on them, you start to feel shortages. That's how the makeup the inflation, but everything U.S. made has ramped-up, as you see in the graph I've uploaded:>>1054589
how's it looking today?
TURKISH LIRA SLIDES TO 8,44 A DOLLAR. At this point is not matter of if but when and how badly will Turkish economy implode.
>>1062182 You talk about the Turks, but I am pretty sure most of the second world is collapsing economically soon enough as well.
>>1063130 It all comes crumbling down
>>1054577 How is he wrong?
>>1063130 >the second world The former Eastern Bloc? They all are third world now, save for Russia and China I guess.
>>1062182 I think that something like half of the Turkish debts are owned by European Banks, especially French and Italian ones. If the Lyra collapses, it will have a catastrophic impact on the already weak European Banks and the Euro.
Is the market fucking dead yet?
>>1063130 >>1064701 <Rising global financial fragility is rising due to obvious increasing contagion effects. The Turkish LIRA crisis is spilling over to other EME currencies, causing a further decline in those currencies in addition to the already significant forces driving down those currencies. Turkish dollarized debt payment obligations to Italian, EU and US banks are being noted in the business press. Italian bank debt is especially exposed, when Italian banks already sit on $500 billion in non-performing bank loans. The transmission mechanism to a broader European bank crisis might easily occur from Turkey to Italian banks to the general banking system. US banks like Citibank are also exposed to Turkish debt. Other indicators of growing potential contagion from the Turkish fallout are the global currency speculators (hedge funds, vulture investors, etc.) now plowing into short selling of the LIRA, further depressing its price, the rising interest rates on Turkey government and private bonds. The response of other EME central banks in raising their interest rates to try to stem the outflow of capital as their currencies follow the LIRA down. (Argentina being the worst case, as its central bank raises rates to 45%–thus ensuring that country’s current recession will collapse into an even more serious contraction, perhaps even depression). http://www.kyklosproductions.com/posts/index.php?p=364
>>1064706 Wait till Wensday
>>1062182 Serj Tankian (lol, everything Armenian is -ian) is calling to sanction Turkey, aw lawl.
b is for bump
>>1064706 Maybe?
so boys is Biden gonna crash the market?
people were saying if trump lost he'd crash the economy and just do everything in his power to fuck the country over. maybe biden winning is the true accelerationist stance?
Haha, I win! 30k soon...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5FNqYpfBPM >$14 billion spent on election instead of people – Wolff
>>1064720 It would really be a problem if the turkish lira goes down further... wait a minute IT SLID TO 8,52 A DOLLAR. The fire rises!
>>1085393 "No major tax hikes" - Your U.S. will collapse faster...
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Im sure this will live up to the hype
>>1111851 It will go to 29,999.99 and then crash.
>>1111872 >mink strain of covid breaches Denmark <bring cure research back to zero <ultra crash
>>1111851 >Biden wins and doing fuck all but we get to see the greatest baby tantrum in the world by Trump. >Vaccine testing results over 90% good >I'm still fucking in debt and dunno how I'm gonna make it for next 3 months. >Porky actually going to reach 30k. This is the worst timeline.
>>1112126 It's the end of the end of the end of history. Trump, Bernie, and coronavirus will be memoryholed.
>>1112145 And it's the begin of the begin of the begin of the new Era.
>>1111900 nice prison garb on that porko
>>1112126 Add >Turkish lira back to 8,00 because of rumore changes in policy We live in hell
>>1112126 >>1112145 This is wrong though. Retards don't realize triggering the forces reactionaryism with a Biden win is going to accelerate it faster than with a second Trump term.
>>1112331 well we'll have to see how biden is approved of, how the republicans will suppress any new potential trumps, if Biden or Kamala will win in 2024
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>>1112331 >triggering the forces reactionaryism No offence, but this sounds like cope. Reactionaries have done nothing since the election, apart from crying and killing themselves. Some are taking estrogen too I guess. They have always been LARPing for civil war, because deep inside they know, Biden is also serving their reactionary interests. There is no actual conflict of interest like with the first Civil War. A civil war would only happen at all with a revolutionary working class against reactionary forces.
>>1111851 There is nothing more beautiful than natural real growth. At 30k I'll buy me a new island and plenty Korean and Japanese sex slaves
>>1112603 Somehow 30k hasn't been reached. Porky are you even trying anymore?
>>1121585 Reeeeeeeeeeeee!!! This is impossible! Why won't it reach 30k?!? We are so close! It's almost as if there is some kind of wall. It must be the government's doing. Afterall, it is run by dirty commies like Biden. It is futile however. The free market will remain free and break through this wall eventually! I don't need another island with slaves. I'll rather finance some militias to overthrow this big-government commie hell. I'll buy some helicopters too, to later throw them off of those. We will get ya, commies!
>>1112126 Well, so much for this post. I wish we could see exactly who decides to bail once stock market always reaches 29.5k
>>1126780 The market.
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RUH-ROH. Death lag period is starting to catch up how long til market crash 2.0?
>>1127142 Cadavers cannot cause the market to crash. Only the general strike of the entire proletariat made them tremble.
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>>1127168 Unless governors order lockdowns again. But they won't, so it won't cause a market crash. >inb4 wildcat general strike and anti-landlord violence
>>1127296 They might order lockdowns if enough industries have to shut down due to infected workforce
>>1126949 why? what's so magical about 30k?
>>1127296 his account got deleted
>>1127820 Dunno. But every time Dow Jones came close to it, it plunged before reaching it. It's like a group of rich people are playing musical chairs, and when the market reaches a certain threshold, one of them sells everything off and bails.
Porky Porky. Going for 30k again. Will you get there before the Covid-19 case rates go bonkers?
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>>1140517 The vaccine cured 95% of coronavirus. It's over.
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It's predictable that the also 90% effective (and more advanced in testing) Russian and Chinese vaccines have not led to the same exuberance we see now. That's because porky doesn't care about the vaccine as such, only about which company can make money of it.
>>1128041 Ooohhh, can they do it? Can the breach 30k?
>>1140527 I think the vaccine is still probably a year out and you probably need to get it multiple times
Didn't get it today. Porky gonna try tomorrow. 30k when?
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OH NO NO NO PORKY. How are you gonna reach 30k like this?
BTC IN 17k
>>1144656 when will it crash again :(
>>1146554 Bitcoin will crash after Trump is officially defeated!
The stock market makes no sense
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>>1147716 its almost like its completely disconnected from reality
>>1147716 the only reason it is still standing is loans and debt, capitalism is a fucking joke
>>1127142 Another lockdown could probably seal the deal.
>>1151621 Another lockdown would SHATTER the petit booj, sealing once and for all their definitive proletarization and setting the stage for something new
Black Friday on black Friday. Screen cap this
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Noooo! A lockdown will Hurt the economy, think of the small business owners and entrepreneurs
>>1147716 Has never made sense since the Glass-Steagal repeal and the gold standard butchered.
>>1152533 >and the gold standard butchered Gold standard didn't stop any of the other many many many collapses that happened for two centuries before it was ended
>>1153328 I am not talking about the crashes. In capitalism that's a must. With a gold standard, markets are kinda more "trustworthy" because you can't easily manipulate the markets. It doesn't mean it would make sense.
>>1156862 Fuck, I meant to say It doesn't mean it wouldn't crash. You need a planned socialist economy to avoid those crashes.
Does anyone still have the 2020 /crisis/ post compilation that an anon here made?
>>1156862 >sound money If you can't crowd the predators out of the market or dilute their "property", they will run the economy. Sound money is inherently reactionary.
>>1156862 >>1157830 Wasn't the great depression kick started by a massive ponzi scheme or some shit? Looks like the gold standard did not help at all then
>>1157908 The GD itself was a debt deflation crisis caused chiefly by a sudden decline in the rate of growth and a dearth of new markets to make good on the growth promise. The goal of staying the course of the GS over the long term, with no expense to general human well-being spared, led to the mass destruction of material wealth to match the "reality" of the currency.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ecb-policy-lane/ecb-emergency-bond-purchases-to-last-while-disruptions-persist-lane-idUSKBN2820TH > The European Central Bank will continue its emergency bond purchases as long as the coronavirus pandemic continues to disrupt normal economic activity, ECB chief economist Philip Lane told French newspaper Les Echos in an interview. >The ECB earlier said the emergency purchase would last until least June 30 but already signalled that it would “recalibrate” this programme at the December meeting, a message taken to mean that the purchases would be expanded and extended.
>>1112454 >My aunt who was ultra QAnon shot herself earlier today Absolutely based, now her children have a little bit of a better chance for a future that isnt filled with bullshit
>>1156862 gold standard limits liquidity, it is a hindrance to capital accumulation and the health of capitalist economy
>>1157908 Wasn't it partly caused by investors using borrowed money (debt) to fund their purchase of stock market shares?
>>1157908 >>1162076 Here, comrades: Here it is explained, in part, and from the capitalist point of view, how started the U.S. big depression in the 20th century. I wish I can share to you a book about that crash, but in Marxists, there's enough material. >>1162072 This is the main problem of gold-based economies. That's why you need a dual system, one where you can print all the money to keep moving the economy while using another to store value.
>>1162173 Damn that had to have been written in 2015 or so, shit has accelerated so much since then. He was right to mention religion; Christianity is going to come back with force in the 2020s, Pence will be the GOP candidate in 2024.
dow just hit 30k guys; what do
>>1166771 wait for porky poster to brag or something I guess...
>>1166771 >>1166774 >>1166775 Its Over bros Guess the market transcends reality after all
It has finally happened. 30k. Before Thanksgiving week too. The market approves the direction of our country. What a farce. Porky you got your 30k. Do you need anything else from your exploits?
I'm sad I can't post this meme again.
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>>1166923 Are you going to celebrate with Trump or with Biden? Instead of being so porkous, you can finance the revolution - NOW.
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>millions of americans will get evicted, starving on the streets >professional class will be fine >asset prices higher than ever >undesirables will be swept under the rug >no one except the elite will ever be able to afford property >those of us who aren't homeless will be renting our tootbrushes by the hour
>>1166923 This shit doesn't make any sense. I've lost a lot of potential gains by pulling out when the covid hit. How is the stock market doing so well in unprecended times of economic deceleration and contraction???
>>1167079 Consumer debt and speculation. Probably speculation OF the consumer debt. And it's pretty much more profitable to invest a little bit of saved money in good stocks than it is to work some shit min wage job so little buyers are STILL buying in even with their shit money
>>1166923 Sorry porky. How could I ever be so foolish to doubt your arcane financial wisdom. You've really shown us that Capitalism is here to stay and the Stock market will grow for ever.
Has anyone noticed the crypto bullrun during the weekend? Wondering if it's starting to become an indicator for the stock market.
>>1167079 >>1167114 It's all based on expectations of stimulus. No, I'm not joking.
finally Dow 30k, criseseseses are cancelled, brunch is resumed, god is female >>1167307 Which includes Trump slowly signalling he will step down.
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>>1166923 Aaaaand it's gone.
>>1167042 genuinely surprised new york is not one of the worst ones. I wonder if it's just that people in the state balancing out while most people rent in the city/
>>1170493 Capitalism is so efficient it will make the Dow hit 30k over and over.
>>1171012 uh while flagposting I just noticed that there's a second Rosa flag but called "Penile Projection"
>>1171023 that should be Cockshott no?
>>1171159 I suppose so, but there's already a Dick Blast. Our mods are certainly fond of their dong fling.
>>1171392 Definitely Rosa
>>1170705 higher incomes maybe
Muskrat is richer than Bill Gates despite Tesla barely breaking even. Is this peak of bubble?
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>>1171481 Kek >photos taken seconds before disaster
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What is going on over Biz? Did the cryptos dipped to hard for the FOMO gang?
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>>1171487 /biz/ will never not be funny
>>1171487 >bought at 19.2k Fucking retard.
>>1171487 >having literally tens of thousands of dollars for bitcoin Why the fuck don't /biz/y bees invest in something more concrete like typical stock options, funds, bonds, etc.? Like nigga the end of fiat money ain't coming next week, make it work for you.
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>>1171489 holy shit i wonder what percentage of /biz/ will suicide
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I just got patronized. I was told I believe the market will crash because a revolution is coming. Not because production was halted, many people were fired, restaurants closed, people are getting evicted, and everything seems to point at a probable contraction of the economy. I have no idea why the market is doing so well, but I don't think the economy is doing well either. I also don't think capitalism solved crisis in the last 10 years. On the other hand, I've been claiming that a market crash is imminent since 3 years now.
>>1171489 I wish speculators just stop playing with the BTC, but holly fuck, the fact that in some few years has reached a relationship 1:>10k is so goddamn good to BTFO the U.S. dollar. <protip: No other currency has reached that relationship.
>>1171587 >On the other hand, I've been claiming that a market crash is imminent since 3 years now. Government won't let the market crash.
>>1171587 The stock market is divorced from physical reality.
>>1171558 >something more concrete like typical stock options Bitcoin is more concrete than stocks have been for months now. >>1171587 >On the other hand, I've been claiming that a market crash is imminent since 3 years now. Well you got it right, it already crashed. The US stock market right now is a fantasy league of corporations, and one eminently vulnerable to manipulation, as Elon Musk has proven by increasing Tesla's value fivefold in as many months. >>1171487 >that lone Fantom thread
>>1170705 >>1171457 Nope, New York just has genuinely better tenant laws than most states I remember back in HS our landlord tried to evict us but since she didn’t have a really reason to do it she legally couldn’t and it ended up tying up in court until she had to pay us to move
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>>1171487 JUICE! JUICE! JUICE!
Is this a good time to get buy bitcoin? Right after a price drop?
>>1173804 Do it pussy
>>1173857 I just did, chainlink too
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>>1171487 >>1171489 da joos in the NYT are doing a hit @ Coinbase and the shitcoins are tanking
>>1171489 Holy shit.
>>1171489 This is almost universal instant karma because like 3 days ago they were celebrating everyone who "held through the bear market." If this is real, holy fucking shit, lmfao.
>>1171487 yo what /biz/ is that?
>>1174390 The OP is a bit misleading. I lost 3k in 1 day. If it keeps halving day after day tnen I will really be impressed.
>>1174350 Oh so that's why? I thought this was one of those unpropmted drops. On hindisght, it should have been obvious that the increased power of infrastructure over base would make it increasingly easy to manipulate markets with nothing but fabrications. I mean, seriously, look at the power that the owner of a mainstream media outlet has to fill his pockets by literally just lying. This is even more abusive than insider trading.
>>1181556 Is this based or cringe?
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>>1181556 seems like its mostly the south
>>1181558 people starving is not a good thing
>>1181568 It's gotta get worse before it gets better
>>1181556 oh fuck is it 1905 time? Was it already 1905 during the july protests? Also comrades, what do you folks think is the likelyhood of a general crash before Trump leaves office?
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>>1182224 Odds are low but very real. He has been hiding away the crash which already happened, so what better way to have revenge than just drawing the curtains?
>>1182430 well with the 401ks taken what is left of the petty bourgeoisie would just evaporate. it'd be literally megacorporations so burdened with debt that they are pointless, and an immense permanently unemployed proletariat
>>1182430 10k by Jan 1st
>>1171489 it's a literal MLM scheme. when will these people learn?
>>1182430 Trumps plan is probably to set everything up for crash but wont let the crash happen under his presidency like a ticking time bomb Biden can deal with
When crisis tho? When will the foreclosures and debts start getting called in? When will shit hit the fan?
>>1185549 When Trump is out seemingly Looks like he finally said fuck it and wants the economy to crash with no survivors once Biden takes office
>>1185569 What will Trump leaving cause?
>>1185744 see >>1182430 Wild speculation, naturally, but this is the Year of the Clown so anything is possible.
What the fuck is going to happen when minimum wage and welfare equalize? Because here in New Zealand we're pretty damn close to that happening. I did some math, and with my $21 NZ an hour job I'm not much better off than the benefit. Considering that welfare here pays for your Warrant of Fitness, Rego, Car repairs, free dental and you get $360 extra food grant every year. If I was on minimum wage, the difference would be about $100 per week, and if I wasn't using petrol to get to work the difference would be effectively $60 a week. With wages stagnating and beneficiaries being expert at agitating for benefit increases and are super protective of their current entitlements, we WILL reach equilibrium point soon as inflation hits minimum wage workers. Single mothers are already earning more than minimum wage workers, and have done for a number of years now. A middle aged woman with children all grown up and left home was venting about it at work. I think we'll just see a mass exodus of people out of the workforce all at once, within the space of about two years. It'll effectively paralyze the economy and I'm not sure what direction the state will choose to go. Raising minimum wage will fuel inflation and sink small businesses, and necessitate further welfare increases and hence further minimum wage increases in a spiral. Not raising it will just continue the flow of people to welfare. Part time work is effectively dead in this country for all but women with a partner already working. No business can hire anyone for less than 32 hours, it just works out that you're losing money to go to work.
>>1186243 >I think we'll just see a mass exodus of people out of the workforce all at once, within the space of about two years. It'll effectively paralyze the economy and I'm not sure what direction the state will choose to go. Raising minimum wage will fuel inflation and sink small businesses, and necessitate further welfare increases and hence further minimum wage increases in a spiral. Not raising it will just continue the flow of people to welfare. >Part time work is effectively dead in this country for all but women with a partner already working. No business can hire anyone for less than 32 hours, it just works out that you're losing money to go to work. The supply of workers decreases, the bargaining power of workers increases. This is an opprotunity to attack capitalism.
>>1186248 Right, but at the same time small businesses will be sinking due to loss of labor combined with increased labor costs. I feel that supply of jobs, and hence demand for workers, will constrict at the same time.
>>1186261 An important loss we cannot overlook. How about converting those businesses into coops?
>>1186261 >at the same time small businesses will be sinking due to loss of labor combined with increased labor costs That’s gonna happen either way through the increasingly monopolized capitalist economy. Which also increases the socialization of labor. The increase in joblessness will be an ample opportunity to organize people.
>>1186261 Small businesses are dead men walking
>>1186435 Small business owners are freedom in human form o7
>>1186243 >>1186261 UBI is the final form of capitalism, given that it's essentially minimum wage for unemployed workers, which guarantees the bare minimum (with some manner of rent control, of course) without actually being good enough to consume enough to sustain the economy. Capitalism is heading towards its final contradictions, namely ecological limits and the impossibility of realization of value.
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>>1187441 >LGBT-inclusive What does that even mean?
>>1187447 https://archive.is/wip/uiDME >The investment bank put together a list of what it calls the LGBT-350. There are companies either with openly lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender senior managers and/or are voted LGBT+ inclusive employers in leading surveys. >voted LGBT+ inclusive employers in leading surveys. nothing
>>1187447 It means that they have LGBT porkies somewhere in the upper structures of the company.
>>1186056 I didn't really understand the point of the pictures of >>1182430 If trump already has done that, what does it have to do with him leaving?
>>1171509 tbh I kinda want art deco and flappers back
It has been months since we got a major drop. How the fuck is the market still alive, we are supposed to be in the biggest depression since 1930's, global GDP dropped fucking 4%
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>>1188359 the charleston is also based
>>1187666 Lay down another policy which will reward those managers for doing the absolute worst they can do, I suppose. I mean, right now they're already plundering that money tho it would take a while before yet another crisis would hit and America saw its 401k was gone just like the home ownership was in 2008 and everything was now, so might as well provide the incentive for them to go whole hog right now. >>1188383 Well the object already dropped, we're just waiting for the image to catch up. Even tho people are already feeling the consequences, they might not actually act on these consequences until these become official. Meaning, tho they know on some level that they're fucked for life, this isn't officially a crash. Remember the media hubbub surrounding the 2008? That made everyone aware that America was in the middle of a Very Big Problem. Now the porky media just has to pretend everything is fine and that's enough for people to act as if everything is fine.
>>1188390 this song is catchy as hell
>>1192849 Something i can't really fathom is: in countries with strong fiscal capabilities (Us,England, Germany, Japan, partially China) , what would impede using helicopter money to stop an eventual crash?
>>1193072 What the money represents
>>1193072 >what would impede using helicopter money to stop an eventual crash? The helicopter money only can stop financial crash, but not the social collapse.
>>1193105 How can't it stop social collapse? They could literally wipe out debts held by private corporations by doing to them what they already do to the banks, why this couldn't revive the system for a while until the next profit rates fall?
>>1192849 Based.
>>1193144 Wiping out debt would wipe out massive amounts of accumulated capital, since debt is also capital. It will also free indebted nations from western domination. If you were Greece, have your debts cancelled, now you have way more leverage, knowing what the EU did to you in the past, would you rejoin trade agreements with them or sign in with China's belt and road initiative that will rebuild your crippled infrastructure? If only the USA and other G7 countries get their debts cancelled, this will spark global unrest and anger by those who still have to pay off their debts. Nor would a wipe of debt increase investment in the long run, since production is still not profitable.
>>1193173 What you've said involves wiping out public debts. What about the possibility of a COLOSSAL bailout of the private sector made by economies with fiscale dire power such as Uk Usa China Japan or Germany?
>>1193187 *just the private sector *firepower
>>1193173 Not to mention the incredible deflation that would occur as a result of your inflated economy suddenly returning to nothing but real production as value.
>>1193193 Deflation? How could price fall in such a situation? Also if you can respond to >>1193187
>>992709 The price of shares is only affected by earnings during public offerings. Most larger corporations like you find in the S&P500 are seen as long term investments rather than trades, so temporary drops in earnings are ignored by most investors. Public offerings have become sparse since covid began so it’s just traders and investors buying and selling from each other at this point. It’s an isolated market without any anchor to the economy as a whole right now. It’s not that odd to see the price of securities defy productivity in situations like this because more money is being pulled from affected sectors and invested in unaffected sectors, like securities, driving demand and inciting bull patterns. Poor bears have been eating dirt this year.
>>1193144 The financial system is just one of the actors participating in the functioning of society. There are many other important infrastructure components such as: grid electricity, irrigation, roads, schools, hospitals,... Even with helicopter money, if the rate of return is low, those infrastructure will be abandoned by capital investment because they are not profitable. In addition, helicopter money is only for capitalists, workers who have no benefit from it. Unemployment is still increasing, workers' real income still decreases, the gap between the rich and the poor still widens. If all the above is not reversed, one day society will collapse.
>>1193193 Deflation - it is due to the fact that workers' wages have not increased, while production activities remain unchanged. Although receiving helicopter money, the capitalist has no reason to increase workers' salary for 2 reasons: 1. The first is that it will reduce his profits. 2. Second is why should he do so when there are still so many unemployed people willing to receive starvation wages.
>>1193349 >it is due to the fact that workers' wages have not increased In fact, workers' wages are falling.
>>1193349 Maybe we should all just stop paying? Stop paying rent, stop paying bills, stop paying for groceries. Then they'd have to pay us more, since we're getting so much for free🙃
>>1194261 The capitalist system requires everyone to pay. But who pays is not the problem. The problem is that capitalism has reached its limit. As a productive relation, it is not capable enough to control the current productive force.
Feelin bullish
>>1198579 Hasn't Japan had negative interest rates for years and it still hasn't fixed their shit?
>>1194773 If it reached its limits how come it's still going strong?
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>>1198701 It is not going strong it is liming along, interest rates are at a historic low and yet money velocity is also low. Sure the stock market is going strong but back in 1929 the stock market also was late to react to the collapse of the economy.
>>1198701 >If it reached its limits how come it's still going strong? It must exceed its limits, but it will no longer be it then.
So basically the stock market can take all your 401k and that's OK?
>>1198808 It is not a problem for the proletariat, but a problem for the petty bourgeoisie.
Explain for a finance brainlet why can't negative intrest rates fix the FRoP? So the idea is that with profit hittinf near-zero, investors deem it too risky to invest in barely profitable businesses. So they instead stick their funds to be safe in a bank. But if the bank has negative rates, that means you start loosing your funds. So, if the negative rates are large enough, can't you create an economy of permanent zombie companies acting as defacto banks for porkies?
>>1198964 Bump question
>>1198863 My job gave me a 401k, I only make $12 an hour, am I now petite bourgeois? Please someone explain what can happen to them during crashes.
>>1198964 The negative rated are done to make credit cheap, so companies which usually could not keep their head above water can survive a bit. What investors do instead of investing is that they initiate things like share buybacks, which make the company look better and drives the stock price up. If you can always attract cheap credit you could do this for ever. But it never lasts...
>>1199063 >If you can always attract cheap credit you could do this for ever. But it never lasts... But it's lasted since 2008, why would it ever end?
>>1199043 Most 401k's are used to invest in the stock market, because profits aren't taxed until it's taken out (when you retire), so if the stock market crashes, there go all the profits.
>>1198964 >why can't negative intrest rates fix the FRoP? Both Yes and No. No, because it cannot make profits grow again (Make Profits Great Again). Yes, because it helps businesses with low profitable (or even losses) to survive without being declared bankrupt due to loss of liquidity. >the negative rates It is a destruction of money. >the negative rates are large enough Money is destroyed on a large scale. >if the negative rates are large enough, can't you create an economy of permanent zombie companies acting as defacto banks for porkies? Yes, the monopolies act as permanent zombie companies acting as defacto banks.
>>1199043 personally i think capitalism is likely to last the next 10-20 years, get a roth IRA and make your own portfolio with whatever you can save but don't buy stocks
>>1199699 >the monopolies act as permanent zombie companies acting as defacto banks Is there any situation that could dislodge that outside of socialist revolution?
>>1198863 Oh please. get off your gatekeeping high horse. there are plenty of jobs that will have you working $10/hour and still give you a useless 401k these days, i know because i've worked them
>>1199699 Explain more about: The negative interest rates and the Stock Market hit 30K. 1. See the entire capitalist system as a unity instead of a discrete set of capitalists. 2. So, there is a balance sheet for the entire system: Current Assets + Fixed Assets = Equity + Liabilities Equity = Share Capital + Retained Earnings - Treasure Shares Current Assets + Fixed Assets + Treasure Shares = Share Capital + Retained Earnings + Liabilities 3. Because of destruction of money (and some side effects like deflation, cheap credit), Current Assets decrease and Liabilities increase. 4. Because of FRoP, Retained Earnings are zero. 5. If Share Capital does not decrease, Fixed Assets and Treasury Shares must increase. The Stock Market 30K is a vivid testament to the rise of Fixed Assets and Treasury Shares. >>1199748 >Is there any situation that could dislodge that outside of socialist revolution? No. Or the society will collapse into barbarism.
>>1199738 That's my feeling on capitalism, it has 15 to 40 years left. Because of this I don't trust my 401k to last long enough to be able to use it I'll look into that type though. I'd much rather have a savings account that could be pulled from with respectable limits.
>>1199810 >Or our society will collapse What's the indication for this? Why can't zombie company negative interest rate neoliberalism just keep going on forever? It's survived and been strengthened by each crisis it has endured so far
>>1199810 Negative interest rate is a prescription for FRoP. So does it have side effects? The answer is Yes. 1. Monopolies are the ones who benefit the most from negative interest rates. Their stocks are pumped unlimited because they cannot go bankrupt. 2. Businesses without a monopoly position will be bankrupt or taken over by businesses with a monopoly position. For example, in the food&beverage service industry, corporations like McDonalds, KFC, Burger King, Starbucks, ... will have a great advantage because of brand monopoly. SME-sized restaurants and cafes have disadvantages in attracting capital compared to monopolies in the same industry. 3. SMEs will become increasingly difficult, acquired or shut down (bankruptcy, dissolution). Therefore, the petty bourgeoisie went bankrupt and impoverished. They can be downgraded to the proletariat. >>1199830 >What's the indication for this? Why can't zombie company negative interest rate neoliberalism just keep going on forever? It's survived and been strengthened by each crisis it has endured so far Because society will only has the bourgeoisie and proletariat.
>>1199836 Class contradictions being there or even intensified doesn't mean collapse
>>1199823 yeah fam i got you, personally i'd set up a roth IRA with vanguard or fidelity once you have $1000 or more saved up, for now if you have $100 or so i'd just get robinhood and put whatever you can into ETFs/index funds, it's better than going to a fucking bank anyways. good luck and stay safe, if you ever have enough saved up and decide to prospect aka gamble and you make it big - make sure to funnel it to our comrades who need it like aschberg did (steer clear of glowie do-nothings like CPUSA, i'm talking NPA, PKK, of course it's illegal to donate to most of these groups so you'll have to send them bitcoin)
>>1199836 So if the petty bourgeoisie shifts to investing only in the stocks of monopolistic corporations, as well as other low-risk assets, will they avoid downgrading to the proletariat? If negative interest rates remain, then the answer is No: 1. Fixed assets, shares of the monopolies can be pumped comfortably without fear of bankruptcy, but should be noted in those processes, their debt is also pumped. At some point of time, the powerful creditor will decide to call the debt. With zero earnings, the only way to pay off debt is by selling its fixed assets, or by selling its own stock. Shares of retail investors are devalued. The big investors are the creditors' front line., in fact, money moves from the right pocket to the left pocket. 2. Negative interest rate are a tax imposed directly on money (bank deposits). Is the money stored in your wallet taxed? Yes, it is subject to VAT. Are investment assets taxed? Currently, there is no government that levies substantial property taxes. But once the market only remains monopolistic sharks, governments will begin to tax property. Once again, for the big investors, money just moves from the pocket of the business to another pocket of the godfather. After a while, the tax returns again as gifts to the "monopolies" children. 3. Other assets such as precious metals, basic commodities, cryptocurrencies, ... can also be manipulated as above.
>>1199852 A socialist revolution can help prevent social collapse.
>>1182430 absolutely beautiful
>>1199043 >My job gave me a 401k, I only make $12 an hour, am I now petite bourgeois? Please someone explain what can happen to them during crashes. >>1199750 >Oh please. get off your gatekeeping high horse. there are plenty of jobs that will have you working $10/hour and still give you a useless 401k these days, i know because i've worked them The 401k is a form of financial investment. If you have the money to invest, you are an investor, at least you're a somewhat petty bourgeoisie. After the 401k crash, you will be downgraded to proletariat. Regardless of the 401k, what the proletariat needs, it's not money. Proletariat should fight for the government to provide basic social security services to its citizens. The lives of the unemployed and the homeless are also matter.
>>1199852 >>1199830 >It's survived and been strengthened by each crisis it has endured so far This is a strange claim I've heard several times but nobody has yet quite defined to me what it means to say that "capitalism has become stronger". In what sense is capitalism stronger now than in 1960?
>>1200645 He has total political control. On the economics side isclearly weaker though.
>>1200645 Capitalism stronger, but falling rate of profit!?!?
I have 10k in memestocks, how fucked am I?
>>1200646 "he" has total political control? How is capitalism's political control stronger now than 2000?
>>1200664 Buy SQQQ, short SX7E
>>1199878 Monopoly: Russia's largest bank Sberbank provides vaccines exclusively https://www.vedomosti.ru/business/articles/2020/12/01/849085-struktura-sbera
>>1200680 China liberalized way more.
>>1182430 I dont get it. Does this mean people will be given an option to invest their 401k in bogus private company stocks, or that private companies are going to use people's 401ks and gamble around with them like they did during the real estate mortgage crash?
>>1200664 which memestocks
>>1200589 what is your definition of "petty bourg" mr. karl marx because I always understood them to be small business owners?
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>>8552 Michael burry is shorting tesla Same guy who made a lot of money off the subprime crisis. What do you guys think? GOD I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE MUSK FANBOYS CRY
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>futures are up Oh, I guess I'll make another 200 bucks today :^)
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>>1202535 I actually ended up 13%, 1100% positive. I'm 22 with 25k in the bank. Not that great but not bad either
>>1205144 1100$*
>>1201758 If porky forces you to have a 401k against your will then your bourgeois. >>1200589 said so.
>>1194261 I wonder what would happen if a million tenants agreed to not pay rent simultaneously. Could Porky prosecute them all at the same time? >>1198579 Some brainiacs here said that America itself cannot afford to use negative rates, but I'm too much of a brainlet to remember the reasons. >>1198597 It can't possibly solve it. They know it's just buying time. They simply don't really know what else to do. They're just patching up the holes which keep springing up as the ship sinks. >>1198964 >So, if the negative rates are large enough, can't you create an economy of permanent zombie companies acting as defacto banks for porkies? The FRoP inevitably does this, regardless of the interest rates, and America is well into that path already. It's the bullshit economy. With the consumption potential in developed countries plateau'd since about the late 70s, porkies make up all manner of contrived schemes to make capital circulate. Think of all the office jobs out there where people actually work for life half the time and have little to do the rest of the time, for example. Other bullshit includes >>1199063 which obviously is just more unproductive crap which further shits up the already upshat economy. Porky is out of ideas. >>1199075 It's just one practice of capitalism which cannot fix the FRoP. Notice that neoliberalism, which ended stagflation by scrapping welfare policies, was purely a redistributive effort -- upwards, naturally. It increasec inequality and accumulation and thus gave a shot in the arm of capitalism, and this is reflected in the upwards trend of the FRoP chart, but even that was just delaying the inevitable. >>1199699 >Yes, because it helps businesses with low profitable (or even losses) to survive without being declared bankrupt due to loss of liquidity. That's not "fixing" tho, that's "duct-taping" at the most.
>>1205501 Negative rates break the banks back usually, but i don't know how central rates transmit to private banks in the Us.
>>1199748 Very theoretically, porkies would transition towards neofeudalism before capitalism collapsed under its own weight. And I can't help but think that at least some of them are actually working towards that. Don't you think that America's rather sudden downwards slide has been a bit too... cliched? >>1199883 A cynic might say a socialist revolution is what happens after the system collapses. People underestimate how bad things had gotten in Russia before people said enough. >>1201140 shitty_cyberpunk_dystopia.jpg >>1201823 Intredasting. Musk pretty much increased the company's value fivefold in about 5 months with sheer speculation, so there's a whole fucking lot of fictitious value there to be vaporized.
>>1205144 I'm 31 with 1500 in the bank. Bourgeois pig
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>>1205989 Sorry, I'm very working class
>>1206006 The criteria is skewed: i know many people with average worker wages whose net wealth is in the million dollars only because they live in a house in Rome or in Naples. I'd run a search without house assets: i assume the number of millionaires would drop 50% to 75% of the total listed there.
>>1206832 *In the million as in "around one million dollars"
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FB Michael Roberts blog: >Corporate profits in the US rose sharply in the third quarter. How was this possible in the midst of pandemic lockdowns? Brian Green explains in his latest post. https://theplanningmotivedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2020/12/breaking-america.pdf >"subsidies flowed in from the $2.2 trillion CARES Act passed by Congress in March to support companies.....This meant an average increase in subsidy of over $600bn in each quarter. When added to profits, it boosted profits beyond their peak in 2014. ... Without this subsidy profits would have fallen by 39% instead of rising by 14%."
>>1206832 They can sell their houses and move to Thailand to live as millionaires
I want a apology! I am not bourgeois for being FORCED to have a 401k! So let me get this straight, if you own any stock our bourgeois even if its barely anything and your still in all ways just a prole? Fuck that!
>>1207151 Ignore the kids comrade, they haven't learned that 401ks get looted by porky whenever he wants more money so may as well not exist yet
>>1207151 Friedrich Engels also used to own stocks. So how to explain?
>>1205548 yeah that's what i'm thinking, musk is a tard, might short it myself even though i only have a couple hundred in the bank and i was going to use that to buy christmas presents. ah well
>>1205989 >keeping your money in a bank you're not beating inflation that way unfortunately, plus the bank is making money off your money by investing, i mean you know how a bank works right? why not do your own investing? porky will continue to steal from you by devaluing your money and the banks will never pay enough interest to cover inflation so you might want to consider dumping what you've got saved (and don't plan to touch for a while) into some index funds. best of luck
>>1205144 nice 2 meet u friedrich engels
>>1206901 >Leave to go to a place where you don't know the language under a fascist King Not likely
>>1207489 Countries like Thailand are pretty friendly to foreigners. They may be harsh to their own people but warm to whom bring them money.
>>1208311 >why our chosen mouthpiece is more fitting for a position to give us more profits Christ this is dystopian. This is the kind of shit that would have you jailed for life over here as corruption and manipulation of governmental positions. And they do it in the US in broad daylight.
>>1038111 you dont seriously believe this? facebook is full of boomers twitter is full of gen xers millennials and zoomers repudiate social media by and large
>>1207392 invest? because I have 1.500$ and my rent is 975$ HTF am I going to invest dumbass
>>1206895 >Profits fell by 39%. LMAO imagine the ROP if they hadn't bailed it out
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>>1207392 Pic related is the only thing I use for a bank.
>>1209910 fuck bro, $975 for rent... you should get a roommate so you can save money or move somewhere cheaper, round here rent is $700 or most people in their 30s own a little bit of land or live w/ their parents. even if your place is one bedroom, if you live in a city you might be able to find a roommate or friend or family member willing to pay half and you could set up some kind of bedroom divider. also maybe you could move in with parents or grandparents if they own a house and would let you, lots of millennials do that. stay safe man, i would try to build up at least a rainy day fund in this shitty economy >>1210010 man, you're not even trying to beat inflation with this. at least with a bank you can get a few cents. keeping your cash in this thing is even worse than a bank tbh
>>1206895 >Without this subsidy profits would have fallen by 39% instead of rising by 14%. ahahahaaaaaaa capitalism itself can't survive without subsidies anymore
>>1208311 >>1208339 You don't know the half of it.
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Dollar January 2020: 76 Dollar today: 147 https://youtu.be/HgzGwKwLmgM?t=5
>>1205144 >>1205989 18 years old, Argentine, without studies, 3300 usd.
>>1205144 fellow zoomer have you also noticed that generally it seems like a lot of zoomers are either total financebros or at least somewhat financially literate pennypinchers? ive been thinking about this a lot and believe it may be a result of the 2008 meltdown, this could either be very good or very bad really. good because a lot of gen z are based and might pour that wealth into a revolution, bad because some gen z might switch to wanting to maintain the system despite witnessing the catastrophe of 2008.
>>1210640 >>1210617 Banks can take your money, if many people want to go get their money at the same time, things like the "corralito" happen. The dollar devalues very little, the merchandise is devalued more than the dollar but it has a resale value. I save on alcoholic beverages, and in dollars. I have everything in my house, and it is difficult to steal.
>>1210647 You do not have to have the money in the banks, they are usurious entities, and thieves. They use your money to steal. The bank by law only has to have 5% in physical by law, the rest can be all borrowed. What if people want to get their money out at the same time ?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corralito
>>1206895 It's funny. The survival of companies in the capitalist, supposedly free trade and competitive world, is actually directly and totally subject to a political decision. But in stead of having the specialized central planners decide which industries remain, disappear, etc. it's purely a function of how much you can legally bribe a politician. Kind of like the early modern practice of kings granting monopoly rights inside the country or certain areas to guilds and manufactures.
>>1210658 yes i know this, i was the anti-bank person in this thread, banks are evil.
>>1209980 >>1210623 >>1210660 The system is very tense. You can even be seized for debts in video games.
>>1210649 argentinanon, i don't know exactly what you mean here, are you saying you keep alcoholic beverages instead of cash ?
>>1210734 I buy alcoholic beverages with the pesos, then and I sell them, but it is more to have savings than anything else. They are difficult to steal, and they make a lot of bulk.
Bros I’ve been waiting for the economy to crash for one year now and every time it’s been blue balls. When will burgerstan collapse, unemployment is running out soon evictions are coming up presumably and yet everything seems fine. (Aside from my catalytic converter getting stolen off my car I hope those fuckers die)
>>1210743 just learn how to grow your own food and keep waiting
>>1210639 Listen, you Argentinians, especially in the left group, needs to understand that IF THE DOLLAR KEEPS DEVALUING (SEE DOLLAR VS. GOLD, DOLLAR VS. BITCOIN) THEN OTHER CURRENCIES ARE GOING TO GO DOWN, TOO, AND FASTER Historically there is no currency that has managed to go up when it is attached their reserve to the dollar. It's economically impossible.
>>1210732 Surely you jest. Or else Gaben will become the world's largest landlord in more ways than one. >>1210743 It already crashed, Porky is just gaslighting literally everyone into thinking there's no systemic problem and your homelessness and unemployment is your fault and no one else's.
>>1210732 >debts in video games How does that work?
>>1210935 >It already crashed, Porky is just gaslighting literally everyone into thinking there's no systemic problem and your homelessness and unemployment is your fault and no one else's. How long can these vermin keep the illusion up, I’ve been waiting for a year now. Is it possible that because everyone sees this one coming so it may never happen because porky will just devise some plan out of it?
>>1210965 >Is it possible that because everyone sees this one coming so it may never happen because porky will just devise some plan out of it? It's inevitable, porky will run out of plans and will eventually just brace for impact, securing whatever they need to secure in order to soften the hit.
>>1210965 1929 market crash followed the economic collapse, it didn't precede it - it just made it worse.
>>1210965 That's the small-loan-of-a-million-dollar question. Most anons are adamant that the illusion will be dispelled by the material conditions at some point in the coming years, but I'm not making any bets one way or the other. After the Trump fiasco, the Harris regime will incorporate internet giants into the deep State, just like old media during the Obama term, and you gonna get hypernormalized like never before. You're going to see shit that would make the most bald-faced Pravda lie seem as incontrovertible as a law of physics. As far as I can see, even before it was known Democrats would win this election, I have been saying the left's only choice is what I have been calling, for want of a better term, revangelism. Political proselytism and community activism two-fer, because capitalism has destroyed even the most basic social bonds between us, and remaking those bonds tied to socialism could be an opportunity to avoid any future splits like in the Russian Revolution. This channel is the only one we have left since mass media has long been out of our reach, the internet is a cesspool of disinformation and mass organizations are dead (cf. destroyed social bonds) so acting at the "first name-basis level" is the only venue left. It's difficult work, but at the same time, it has crucial advantages. One, the aforementioned potential unity of message and deeply-rooted socialistic sympathies. Two, both hypernormalization and this infocalypse on the internet are, obviously, enabled by mass media technology, and the only way to override that torrent of bullshit is to educate them from a position of trust, and that has to be done in person; getting out of this tech-enabled postmodern hell entails getting people to stop being passive, stupified consumers of garbage information and bring them back to the material world in more ways than one. Three, this channel is as low as it goes, and it's thus the one channel reactionaries can't truly subvert. They are, by definition, elitist and thrive on disinformation, and to gain any traction, they have to deceive part of the masses. A healthy social network is the best and, by now, the only way to undercut them. >>1211087 Dunno, man. Look at the evolution of unemployment back then: https://www.thebalance.com/unemployment-rate-by-year-3305506 It took 4 years for unemployment to reach the level which has now been reached in possibly 4 weeks. This shit is on a whole other level.
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>>1211135 Hypernormalization has no effort on the material world that no civilizations has been able to ignore for long. Eventually like imperial Japan and Weimar German the US will have go full faschie or let the dismissal material conditions build up the ranks of socialists. As the crisis deepens will become clear media is a sideshow and the real battlefield is the streets.
>>1210647 >fellow zoomer have you also noticed that generally it seems like a lot of zoomers are either total financebros or at least somewhat financially literate Easy to say that when we've had a complete bullmarket for last 10 years. It's pure survivorship bias in my mind. If we have one big crash then that notion will be swept away. Millions of college students, neets and whatknot will lose their savings overnight and then we'll hear about how reckless and ignorant they were.
>>1211167 I would agree with you, were not for current mass media being such a different beast from what it was the last time a crisis this deep hit any developed country. I think it can be said the superstructure's influence over the base has grown to a disturbing degree.
>>1211213 Trump used tactics from the fascists playbook and let fascists do their own thing under his administration. I don't see how the Democrats are going to able to reverse that with them ignoring that there is even a crisis. You'll have the situation where Democratic Party propaganda will be behind paywalls as Americans become too poor to have cable TV while socialists and fascists give their propaganda away for free and even when Americans can see the propaganda of Biden it would be too alien to their material condition to be effective.
>>1210647 I'm causiously optimistic that even zoomers who do alright for themselves can still see that the system is fucked. Having a house, car & family with 2.4 kids and a dog doesn't mean as much when the world is obviously falling apart.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/12/10/stimulus-congress-economic-relief/ If Sanders kills the bill or drives it into deadlock, that would be some real fucking accelerationism. Not gonna happen though, but if by some miracle he kills that bill and they don't muster a replacement, this will be an any% economic depression world record that will never be beaten.
>>1213397 It starts
>>1213397 fuck, this might be the top of the rollercoaster, should i start selling the $800 i made this year off a few dumb impulse buys
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>Some 50% of retailers could close for good and that figure is up from 45% only two months ago. >47% of small Business to Business (B2B) firms are struggling to keep the lights on and might not make it to next year. This is up by nine percentile points from September where the figure was just 38%. >Among those hard hit are those in the travel and hospitality sector where 62% say they might not survive in the next three months. >Others who expressed their concerns include owners of gyms (61%), beauty salons (60%), health and wellness shops and spas (46%), restaurants (45%), marketing and advertising agencies (45%), entertainment companies (43%), construction businesses (38%), law offices (36%), and even accounting firms (25%). >Those seeking some form of support to weather the storm are shops and services with closure risks of 45% to 62%. https://smallbiztrends.com/2020/12/alignable-survey-48-percent-small-businesses-fear-closing-for-good.html
So is the housing market going to crash or not?
>>1214618 No, there’s no a lack of supply.
>>1214618 It's going to skyrocket in certain areas. Places outside of NYC for example.
>>1213623 Well, it did break past 30k not too long ago. I think everyone is just trading along waiting for the hammer to fall to instantly sell everything. >>1214621 >lack of supply What? Doesn't America have a housing surplus what with endless real estate expansion?
>>1214666 >Doesn't America have a housing surplus what with endless real estate expansion? You can still acquire land in the middle of nowhere for cheap (no pipes, no electricity, no people) but actual housing is expensive and has only gone up since COVID. This is what I've seen looking for a house in urban and suburban areas in multiple states.
>>1214621 >>1214626 what about the end of rent and mortgage protections? Aren't millions going to be kicked out of their home?
>>1210658 Reserve requirements were suspended a while back. US banks aren't required to keep ANY money on hand. They have some to just keep daily business going, but the requirement is no more...
29,862.35-136.91 (-0.46%)
>>1215190 >The market reaches 30.000 >Porky laughs as his objectives were fullfilled. >And now is when the crash starts. Are we on an anime? Does this in the inmaterial plain of the Dow be like Marx on the floor, then remembering the power of friendship and dialectics, and the opening making an entrance?
>>1215202 Human history is an anime so yeah
SPAIN 10 YEARS BOND TURN NEGATIVE Probably the only positive rates 10 year bond in Europe are Greek Italian and Portuguese ones. What are the consequences of all these nations giving negative yields?
>>1215871 Just checked and even Portugal bonds give negative yields, so literally just Italian and Greek ones don't (and Italian bonds give less than 0,5% nonetheless)
>>1215202 for some reason beyond our understanding it seems some big porkies are playing musical chairs whenever it nears/hits 30k. This shit is going to implode any second lol
>>1215871 the internal contradictions inside the EU are absolutly insane the EU is a Imperialist project of mainly german and France Finance Capital the southern and eastern states get absolutly exploited. For example the Greek debt crises during the last financial crash germany fucked over the weaker countries to save itself from the crash (which kinda worked out) and absolutly obliterated the greek economy (it was a eastern europe after the end of socialism situation) the problem is capitalism needs crashes by stopping them you are making the situation worse. Now we have another economic crisis which only makes the problems for the EU worse (France and Germany face massive problems) they already took almost everything from the weaker EU nations so they cant save themselfs again. Coming to your point i think what we see here is a last moments before the crash situation were the banks try to take what little is left in greek italy etc and moments before the crash starts they are gonna make a run with the money. Interesting side note Wirecard was a big german company for online money transfer which was (allegedly) big in asia it was revealed that they fooled everyone and didnt make business in asia the CEO toke a couple of millions and run into russia and cant be found he had connections to several EU and none EU sevret services
>>1210869 We are getting used to it. The dollar is devalued so you have to buy low. That is, if the dollar is at 150, I buy it at 145, and it supports me 2 years of dollar inflation.
The current stock market is entirely the result of a series of FED measures and the expectation of vaccine efficacy that will end the epidemic. The Fed has expressed its attitude that it will do nothing more and the rest is on the government and political side. All are unknowns!
>>1222222 Checked
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>>1222222 based and uncertainty pilled
>>1222222 Reminder the great depression didn't start in October, it started in March. The market seemed to be recovering after that first small crash because the Fed money-printered. There's no way we don't see a crash in 2021 to rival April
>>1214673 Millions already are being kicked out, and you'll notice that what little news of the dire situation there were before the election have already vanished now that Biden is on the way. This is America's worse economic crisis ever, and there's no sense of emergency or abnormality because Porky's control of the superstructure is just that strong. >>1215895 I presume that the high wizards in the Fed activate brakes every once in a while because they want to keep an air of normalcy to hide the crash, but traders with virtually infinite credit would speculate their shit to fucking infinity and way too fast. Since they can't directly control the rate at which this fantasy league grows (getting all the traders in on the secret would blow it wide open), they have to apply full brakes on and off and on and off until this clown act comes to an unpredictable end. As for why use 30k as baseline, dunno, maybe it's just the round number effect. >>1222899 On the other hand, see the bottom of >>1211135
>>1215202 It seems that on the eve of every major market crash the stock prices reach record highs before crashing intensely, sort of like how every empire reaches their territorial limit and then begins declining from there
>>1211167 Honestly the whole problem with the “hypernormalization” idea is that it’s basic foundation is the belief that the Soviet political system was absolutely doomed by the 1970s and people were just distracted from it; when obviously what actually doomed them was the liberalization of Gorbachev. You can’t blast media signals at people to the point that they forget how hungry they are or that they’re on the verge of becoming homeless. You know, at least religion had much deeper meaning to it, it was genuine worship and belief; what the media offers is not a genuine belief in spiritual salvation but rather a worship of human idols who represent the libidinal desire for hedonistic sex and pleasure; it is a self-evident spiritual death that cannot distract from material suffering in the way that religion could.
>>1211236 This is my view, the DNC really only controls the media that the new generations of adults plainly don’t give a fuck about anyway
>>1222222 You got the mega dubs bro, I will follow your analysis to the ends of the earth.
This is bullish.
>>1223535 The stock market is reddit
29,861.55 -184.82 (-0.62%)
>>1223586 >Porky investors finally going along with the retarded investment bros on reddit A truly a glorious day
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>>1224146 Actual footage of the average reddit investor thinking bout what to buy
>>1222899 so are things going to crazy next year? investors jumping out windows?I'm terrified that things really will be 'back to normal'
>>1222905 'murica lookin like District 9
>>1214584 good riddance. the sooner this decadent mom'n'pop sector proletarianizes, the better.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/fed-meeting-live-updates-watch-jerome-powell-speech.html So many "if"... >Powell reiterates Fed’s promise to aid economy until full recovery >Powell says Fed would increase asset purchases if recovery slows >Fed chief says it could be a while before higher inflation levels
>>1229028 https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fed-fomc-monetary-policy-decision-december-2020-155308181.html >“the path of the economy will depend significantly on the course of the virus.”
https://archive.is/FxMzf >The U.S. poverty rate has surged over the past five months, with 7.8 million Americans falling into poverty, the latest indication of how deeply many are struggling after government aid dwindled. >The poverty rate jumped to 11.7 percent in November, up 2.4 percentage points since June, according to new data released Wednesday by researchers at the University of Chicago and the University of Notre Dame. Line go up!
>>1222905 Skid Row's looked like that for years. Probably pre-covid footage.
>>1229047 just wait till they start making poverty a floating thing. >poverty is now defined as people who make less than 10 cents an hour And have Steven Pinker celebrate it.
I guess Porky really did switch tactics. First he was desperate to get proles to go out and make his dividendies, and as a bonus, it would thin the massive herd of the unemployed and build up herd immunity, so it was a three-fer. Now he seems to be shifting towards mandatory lockdowns as he realized the lower bourgeoisie is being completely slaughtered. The gainz made by the biggest bougies this year is nothing short of obscene. >>1224870 The growth of socialism in the past involved explaining to people why they were eating shit their entire lives. Currently, we have to make Americans realize that what they keep eating and asking for seconds is shit.
AAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHHAAH Faggot .ogre jannies attempt to nuke board revived OG /crisis/ general thread, that had slipped in raids of last couple of weeks, HILARIOUS!
I missed this thread
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A Hard Look at Rent and Rent Seeking with Michael Hudson & Pepe Escobar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IquO_TcMZIQ
Yes, I am a communist. Yes, I own crypto.
>>1292302 PBooomp!


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