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Learn to code they say, become labour aristocrat they say Anonymous 11/11/2020 (Wed) 14:35:07 No. 5991
Junior programmers are most exploited proles currently. Only senior programmer that bring lot of surplus value has benefits. I am student at pretty bad computer science school i struggled to find a job entire 3 years. Finally i lied about knowing someone and got a job as Java developer with no technical interview. I never wrote webapps in Java, i was using Python for everything, why would iuse Java? Python is used by scientists in all interesting areas like ML or cybsec. Anyway i thought i will never find python job so i accepted offer. I spend first month in this job mostly writing tests. 2 weeks ago manager "trusted" me with writing nondependent, noncritical piece of original CRUD code. Project is using old legacy technology and it was trully difficult for me to implement even basic sorting or filtering in components i wrote. Ok, so i spend a month working, making some stupid mistakes and asking him some stupid questions (that probably gave a way what a clueless idiot i am to him). Anyway after a week i finished my task, and i even spend a weekend working on it, because i did not wanted to dissapoint. I thought when i come back in monday i will be trusted with writing other tasks, but no. Manager was talking with some other guy about throwing me out, about how i dont know anything about Java, and he did so loudly so i can hear it and any other worker sorrounding me (we work in open space). In current situation i dont know, it may be better if he straight fired me, but i will probably go there another month or two, with nothing to do. Manager will ignore me, wont give me any tasks, and he will talk shit about me literally behind my back. I cant even focus on writing those tests and make stupid mistakes. My piece of code i spend week of work and even my free time on is fully functional, why he cant even accept my fucking pull request?! All i want is for my programs to be used in production and get first year of experience earning bad wage. What a sorry predicament i got myself into. I wasted few years of my life, my health (spine and eyes) for carrer that seems to be unsuitable to me. I dont know what should i do anymore.
>>6297 They almost got me. 2 year contract, cannot work for anyone else and you arr not guaranteed projects and you can be sent anywhere in the country little to no notice.
>>6300 Before jumping to that point, make it your goal while in school to land some internships. I graduated without one and it was so much harder to get a job with no experience. That should take priority while in Uni, followed by networking with other CS folks, then your grades. Sad but true.
>>6302 Should I just start wildily applying for them? I transfer to a four year soon from my community college soonish, but I've kinda been languishing in min wage crap during the summers and weekends for the last five years which I'm now realizing is a horrible mistake (though I need the money since I'm poor) While socially awkward, I'm not completely retarded at interviews due to working fast food and what not but I'm scared I don't have the technical skills to hack it at any PAID (this is important) internship
>>6167 If you can do python you can do JAVASCRIPT. Build a React.js app and see how it goes. More opportunities there. You can also leanr to write a Python backend using stuff like Flask and SQLAlchemy. There's a whole world out there that u haven't explored yet. Keep yir chin up and start branching out.
>>6299 >do you have any advice for learning this? I'm not really good at front end, but here's my advice. Do the django tutorial. It's well done, and has relatively little magic compared to other frameworks. Download a package manager if your OS doesn't have one. Homebrew for mac, chocolatey for windows. Figure out how to turn that thing on. Many times it's on by default. Try logging in via the console and making a database and a new user with the same name as the db. Download pipenv. Pipenv is the way to go. It's easy to set up and just works. Do the django tutorial. If you have problems with postgres, try reinstalling it. You might have to get your hands dirty and delete some databases manually. Don't upgrade postgres unless you absolutely have to. After you are done with the django tutorial, read the documentation for start to finish. It is a terrible process. It feels bad, its boring. You don't have to understand everything. This will give you an idea of what you can do and where to find it. Ask a lot of questions, google a shit ton. After that is done, do a small project. Like a todo list app with users.
>>6303 You should start doing easy programming problems. You have to be diligent! This is super important. TO add to this anon's list >>6302 internship > general programming practice (personal projects) > coding problems > making friends with other cs folks (meet them all, be good friends with all) > grades
>>6303 Sure, go to college, but your first priority is building simple projects on your own, since you will always be able to move faster than your teachers. Bootcamps can teach you enough to be a code monkey in 6 months, and if you built your own stuff that increases your chances of landing a real job.
>>6301 Yup. I almost got to one of the companies also like that. Those companies are not worth selling your soul to. You can't even break the contract and quit without paying a fine worth thousands of dollars.
all this bitching about oop as a design concept and trying to blame it on capitalism, why haven't you all figured out that it's not oop that is the problem, it's the fact that it's shoehorned into solving problems it wasn't designed to solve? the fact that such a thing as singleton pattern even exists should be proof enough of that. meanwhile i got a lot of good mileage out of oop in a project where a queue of different types of data objects with each type requiring special handling was processed out of order in a multi process setting and you needed to perform a bunch of tasks pre, during and post processing while preserving atomicity. this is the kind of shit that oop should be used for. what it should absolutely not be used for is inheritance hell in a gui based application for normies like what most of the output using the horrible languages that are java or c#. there is absolutely nothing wrong with oop as a concept, it is just largely misused by retards.
>>6309 Based, "OOP is neoliberalism" is the most retarded take i've seen on this board.
>>6309 >it's not oop that is the problem, it's the fact that it's shoehorned into solving problems it wasn't designed to solve? yeah that's what I said. it has no legs to stand on as a model of computer programming in general. since we agree, I guess all I have to say is... enjoy being mad?
>>6296 >I've been meaning to write an article on the neoliberal ideology inherent in OOP. I'll have to do some historical digging. well, for a fun little exercise here is an article that throws in little comparisons of OOP to marxism kek http://www.softpanorama.org/SE/anti_oo.shtml >To me it looks more like more dangerous development -- a variant of computer science Lysenkoism (and I can attest that the current level of degradation of computer science definitely reminds me the level of degradation of social sciences under Stalin; it's now more about fashion then research with cloud computing as the latest hot fashion. >Unfortunately, OOP and economic communism suffer similar problems. They both get bogged down in their own bureaucracy and have a difficult time dealing with change and outside influences which are not a part of the internal bureaucracy. For example, a process may be stuck in department X because it may be missing a piece of information that the next department, Y, or later departments may not even need. Department X may not know or care that the waiting piece of information is not needed by later departments. It simply has it's rules and regulations and follows them like a good little bureaucratic soldier. inb4 "i love oop now"
>>6312 >gobbunizm is when burokracy!!! No surprise that a self-important stemfaggot is an essentialist shitsock.
>>6311 >it has no legs to stand on as a model of computer programming in general no programming model has legs to stand on as a general programming model, so its a fail argument. every programming model has its good uses and its bad uses, and the proof behind that is the variety of programming paradigms out there that are each designed for a specific use. the problem is failed attempts at practice standardisation that force square pegs through round holes. criticise structurally inefficient capitalist management instead who purposefully forces this square peg into our ass for reasons of damage control because they constantly replace their workforce and wind up with a bunch of teams who have never even seen the design document for whatever pointless behemoth is being designed for office use at that particular moment
>>6314 I am glad you're enjoying being mad anon. Careful not to overindulge.
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I dropped out of community college when I was 23 with only one semester left in IT. I spent 2-3 years being a NEET then I waged in a restaurant for 2. It was actually pretty fun because the boys but covid happened and I realized I was being exploited more than I thought. I'm going on 28 now and I seriously need to go back to school. I did a few labs in Harvard CS150 and I thought it was easy but I understand learning will get much more difficult. I'm about to move in with my dad (to escape my mom) who I haven't lived with since I was 8 (horrible childhood) and I just want to prove I'm not a dumbass, to him and myself. The question is should I continue to learn to code? Are there more prospects in web development or literally anything else? Seems like CS is becoming oversaturated and I'm obviously not going to go to a good school.
>Why yes, I am a STEMfag who will attempt an engineer coup and then promptly get executed on Stalin 2.0's orders, how could you tell?
>>6316 Coding sucks, it's not fun. Would not recommend. I don't know the market but keep in mind there is a lot to "web development" that isn't just "programming". I've been fucking around with Linux since I was like 12 so that stuff is easy for me, but there is a lot of minutiae that you have to learn if you want to be productive/market yourself. There is very little computer science in web development btw, I'd try to join one of the 'prestigious' bootcamps instead.
>>6318 >I'd try to join one of the 'prestigious' bootcamps instead. Let me add, not one that you pay for. Those are a scam. But some of them have agreements where they take a % of your salary for X years. I'd try to find one of those that looks legit. If you're not a girl or not white/asian/indian they'll love you.
>>6033 fuck you my friend works himself half to death coding
>>6316 tfw no thicc housewife bf
>>6304 You don't know situation. You wont be even invited to interview if you don't have min 2 years experience. Frontend is super saturated
>>6318 Programming is like sex, it's only fun when you do it for free.
I heard they were looking for a person to replace me already, so mine and their pain may end sooner than I thought lmao. Guy had conducted 3 job interviews in a day, he rejected all of them tho
>>6167 >i even spend free time doing it Did you spend so much time because you are really bad at the task you were asked to do? If so, this isn't really a point in your favor.
>>6325 yes thats right. I spend entire week writing data table , it was in jsf though. I did finished it in weekend. I know its bad, but i was doing it for the first time, i never did java cruds in school, i was focusing on writing python scripts and amateur artificial intelligence research. I learned bit about java ee before beginning job but i skipped jsf, its horrible unintuitive and i hoped i will avoid it. Even with primefaces documentation is pretty bad. Anyway i think i cannot unscrew it. Its probably not even ffault of manager, he is programmer too and is basically slave to business people. It means he needs to report to business people all tasks he and other people do on product business people use, and bp can say "this task can be easile made in 4 hours instead of 8 hours". In such circumstances he cannot allow tasks to be made in a week. Anyway i think about contacting him, and ask if he is not satisfied with my work, and is it because i am too slow. What do you guys think, should icontact him and ask him that? Even today i was refactoring and adding final fixes to jsf task, and i heard someone laughing behind my backs how i could spend 2 hours on that, and how suprised he was i am 3 year student. I feel horrible, like my world is crumbling apart. I was not aware i am that horrible of a programmer, and i was building my identity around this skill for a few years. So it will be really difficult to me to cope with fact this occupation may not be for me
>>5991 Good. Software engineers are bourgeois parasites that will all hang when revolution comes.
>>6327 how do i become "true" worker prole? I feel i am underqualified even for typical prole work like construction or i dont know plumbing, electrincs
Don't go to college, if you do you're a class traitor and will be shot
>>6329 burger detected
>>5991 honestly you sound like you got grifted by a "become a programmer in two month" program. The java guys were right to throw you out cause youre useless to them, sound like they were hiring software engineers and got a code monkey, the language thing is a big giveaway you never got a good formal education on sofware engineering. Go freelance and make wordpresses /e commerce/basic web shit that require almost no tech skill, you can make tons of buck ez by exploiting the total clulessness of average ppl for anything IT alternatively, learn java, spring and shit for real, and get a good job, but it seem to me you arent made for this. If you have ok freelance skill you will get much better result by doing shitty wordpresses.
>>6330 it's not wrong though, uni is where you go to be integrated into the system and placed upwards in the hierarchy, you become a manager, a labor aristocrat, a class traitor
>>6332 burger detected
>>6333 euro social fascist detected
>>6192 you're obviously not into software. Langage are tools, it's like being a carpenter saying they're focused on the hammer. If I have to hire a guy to nail in thousands of planks thats fine, if I need to build a house I fire him. Also, learning the basics of a langage is really not that big of a deal, and the advanced quirks are often baked in standard practice or irrelevant for most use. Sure you get benefits knowing your langage well, but its really not that important.
>>6329 hope you're trolling retard
>>6335 how you can even learn software engineering on your own, you wont even get any merge conflict if you just work on your own projects. Anyway i dont mean language but environment. Knowing python and django and some templating language is still different thatn knowing java and application server tech, jsf, hibernate etc. Lot of things in SE are independent of technology, but knowing specific technology is obviously important for delivering things quickly.
if you think otherwise you never had to work with jsf
>>6334 burger detected
>>6285 How do you find a job in it. I'm in France and it seems like cybersecurity careers are dead. Only Java and webshit
>>6312 >a variant of computer science Lysenkoism incredible line. Thanks for the tip. >>6314 >the variety of programming paradigms out there that are each designed for a specific use Lol. I bet you don't do software engineering as a job. I wish this were true, it is simply not the case. A good tool being used for the right job is the exception in the industry. A non-OOP language being used AT ALL is the exception, regardless of whether it is right or not. >>6316 Keep at it. It is one of the few well paid professions you can teach yourself and get paid to do it. >>6326 Bro, you'll get the hang of it. I promise. Keep practicing, consider working extra hours. It sucks, but it'll get you up to speed so you aren't in the situation you are in. > how suprised he was i am 3 year student Come the fuck on. I'm a good software developer. Not a "great" one, simply, I am sure I can get into any company if I try. I didn't know how to code until after working on my first internship. I didn't learn ANYTHING in my CS classes. You're fine mate, you're going to make it. TRUST ME. >>6328 The other poster is a fucking retard. There is nothing glorious about being an badly paid prole. >>6335 Idiotic advice. If you're starting out, stick with one language and tool-set.
NOTICE Bumping this thread to announce that it will be moved to >>>/tech/ Remember to do your comradely part! Browse the overboard. Browse the other boards. Make threads in the other boards. Respond to anons.
>>6135 Even my shitty university were any brainlet can enter (although many of them don't graduate) has number theory , linear algebra and calculus , for cs , and the programing languages are java and c " with classes" later on it's weird . Btw i live in Portugal so your situation could be different there we have some minimum standards , as every cs course needs to be equivalent to those in other unis which probably raises the quality
>>6340 it's pretty huge in the US, i think france would probably have a few odd boutique things (cybersecurity and state departments go hand in hand). you could look into security engineering which is basically an overpaid software engineer who code audits - usually you just need to get 1-2 bs certs and prove you can read C code.
>>5991 labor aristocrats are basically the modern day bourgeoisie so they will definitely swing from lamp posts when the revolution starts.
>>6342 Based mods, I hope more threads are moved to the side boards.
>>6343 We had those too, but at low level, for example we had "calculus" where we never got above derivatives. Then I had numerical method when I learned how to calculate integrals numerically - we had to write program to calculate area under a curve, but values of function was undefined on some interval so you got weird results trying to calculate it, that was pretty cool
>>5991 sadly in capitalist society you need to have money in order to make money and whatever money you make will be gobbled up either by your landlord or a large corporation.
i did not get fired yet, i think they gonna fire me this tuesday, or first may
>>7108 Good luck


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