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Learn to code they say, become labour aristocrat they say Anonymous 11/11/2020 (Wed) 14:35:07 No. 5991
Junior programmers are most exploited proles currently. Only senior programmer that bring lot of surplus value has benefits. I am student at pretty bad computer science school i struggled to find a job entire 3 years. Finally i lied about knowing someone and got a job as Java developer with no technical interview. I never wrote webapps in Java, i was using Python for everything, why would iuse Java? Python is used by scientists in all interesting areas like ML or cybsec. Anyway i thought i will never find python job so i accepted offer. I spend first month in this job mostly writing tests. 2 weeks ago manager "trusted" me with writing nondependent, noncritical piece of original CRUD code. Project is using old legacy technology and it was trully difficult for me to implement even basic sorting or filtering in components i wrote. Ok, so i spend a month working, making some stupid mistakes and asking him some stupid questions (that probably gave a way what a clueless idiot i am to him). Anyway after a week i finished my task, and i even spend a weekend working on it, because i did not wanted to dissapoint. I thought when i come back in monday i will be trusted with writing other tasks, but no. Manager was talking with some other guy about throwing me out, about how i dont know anything about Java, and he did so loudly so i can hear it and any other worker sorrounding me (we work in open space). In current situation i dont know, it may be better if he straight fired me, but i will probably go there another month or two, with nothing to do. Manager will ignore me, wont give me any tasks, and he will talk shit about me literally behind my back. I cant even focus on writing those tests and make stupid mistakes. My piece of code i spend week of work and even my free time on is fully functional, why he cant even accept my fucking pull request?! All i want is for my programs to be used in production and get first year of experience earning bad wage. What a sorry predicament i got myself into. I wasted few years of my life, my health (spine and eyes) for carrer that seems to be unsuitable to me. I dont know what should i do anymore.
>>5991 Sorry OP, I feel your pain, but at least you have a job, a lot of other graduates don't
> I lied and now I am punished for it Only a priest can help you now.
>>5993 I did not lied about knowing Java, I said I only wrote homeworks in it which is true.
>>5991 You probably have the skills to teach and tutor math, go into that, its a far less stressful gig.
>Be me >Be studying mostly useless shit like polisci >Despair over my future of miserable low wage cucking since polisci degree probably can’t net anyone a “good” job >Get told on Reddit I need to “LERN2CODE” >Go on leftypol <All the coders are suicidal
>>5996 Everyone is suicidal except the CEOs fucking strippers and doing coke in a hot tub. I wanna tear this whole sick world to pieces.
>>5995 As I said my school is pretty shit, I dont leat math there
Sorry OP. Waging is bad for my mental health. That's why i'm a NEET parasite.
>>5997 also those strippers doing coke in a hot tub are suicidal too
>>6000 Well of course, they're just slaves. My point is why can't we just kill the rich already. I'm sick of this.
>>6001 Because you may not be mentally cucked to the rich but most people are
>>6002 I know that, I'm just tired of being a NEET but I don't wanna be a bottom rung wageslave in a supermarket either. Everything sucks. Why do we have to live this way when NOBODY is happy.
>>6003 its ok anon, i was lucky and i got a job after 9 months of searching. por tip: after this pandemic thing is over (hopefully) get some beers with your new coworkers, programmers favourite passtime
>>5998 what kind of garbage computer science program are you in that didn't dabble in mathematics
>>6004 Thank you. I'm not a programmer though or OP, just a NEET graduate in useless stuff, I'm sick of the way things are
>>6006 i fucked up lmao meant for OP, eitherway it also works for NEETS
>>6007 It's alright
>>6003 That’s basically my feel, anon Everyday I wonder when I’ll stop being a worthless pseudo-cel NEET that survives off unemployment and my mom not throwing me out But then I remember that currently my only option is wage slaving in retail which is fucking awful or fast food which is even worse. Honestly wouldn’t mind being a construction worker but I don’t know how to find construction jobs. I wish I could move out but I gotta start wage cucking ASAP to do so and my only friend that pulled it off is on a perpetual treadmill where all his money goes to rent and bills and he has no personal life anymore
>>6009 Yeah. I know what you mean. Sometimes I think about a job working with machines, I think it could have been neat to work in a factory or something but now industry has been abolished in the west. Or doing what I actually got my degree in but that isn't going to happen. IDK I just don't want to work for some CEO, I wish I could work at a co-op or something I haven't even looked for work in over a year, I don't see the point anymore
>>5991 Why are technical interviews legal, they are the most bs shit and every ‘technical interview’ I went to was the employer just getting free labor or collecting some data out of it. Do all programmer jobs require it because they make getting the job a pita
>>5991 Bruh, should've put some fucking paragraph breaks in your wall of text. In which country are you working? Sounds like your manager wants to make you quit so he doesn't have to pay you shit. >>5998 Comp sci is largely autodidact. Schools are all trash. Bruh, give me more info. I think you need a tutor that helps you by peer reviewing your code. You are not stupid. You can learn to code decent enough to get a well paying job. You need to practice a lot more. Programming is in large part a tacit skill. You need to do it a lot and you improve loads when working with other people and getting constant feedback. You have a problem right now that is hard to solve because they are pressuring you psychologically. It's fine that you suck at your first job. Next step would be to find ways to make the best out of this situation. Don't give up anon. Stop being a doomer, this is the worst part of your career.
>>6009 >>>hobby/leftybiz
>>6012 i dont think i can another job without <1 year experience, i hear stories, in my they are recruiting "junior" person for frontend job, no experience CV goes to trash in a moment, and even people with 2 year experience get rejected because they worked in different web framework than its needed
>>6011 Most decent companies assign programming tasks that are coding challenges, not "free labor" per se. They are fucking trash and most interviewers deserve to get hanged, but as someone who has used them, they are a good proxy to find out how people think and how comfortable they are around code and facing hard problems.
>>6015 Yeah but theyre never used to see how someone works through a problem because they’ll always reject someone that gets the wrong answer. It’s just used as a retarded filter for candidates with no application to the job since its all theoretical shit
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>>5991 >Python is used by scientists in all interesting areas like ML or cybsec. No fucking wonder you can't find a job. This is such a retarded take, not only i wouldn't hire, i would fucking fire you if i heard it.
>>6015 >Interviewers Jesus Christ, I never did an interview, but as a part of my Software Engi course we are forced to do communication, which is lectured by an interviewer. I have never seen a more stereotypical midwit people of college in my life. Constant muh hecking Muskerino shit, constant Joe Rogan quotes.. and he always mentions fucking Obungler as his biggest inspiration
>>5991 Sounds like a typical small company. They will exploit the shit out of you with zero reward. I've been there and it was so stressful that it gave me some small mental health issues I think. Thankfully I got a better (but still kinda stressfull) job after taking time off. I'm not really sure what hou can do OP but if it's still shitty after a year there start looking for a better job or start to go crazy.
Posts like this scare me because they remind me I’m only one job away from being a NEET/homeless again. Unironically how do retards find that a job brings them ‘security’ or ‘stability’?? I’ve always felt like I was walking on eggshells while on the job. No job is permanent, its only a matter of time before they axe you.
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>>6018 God glowie back off he's just a kid
>>6019 they think that shit is meaningful because it actually does work for them, they can use those shitty cliches to push themselves forward because they are too dumb to realise how inane they really are.
>>6022 Are you retarded? What does that have to do with glowing? Saying someone is incompetent is being a fed nowadays?
>>6018 why would you write ML in Java? there is no even comfortable env for prototyping like JupyterNotebook. There was not even jshell since like java8. Enjoy waiting few minutes for your application to deploy to even see changes in your model. And why would you use Java for log parsing? Its only boring financial application being made in it
>>5991 How much do u make OP?
>>6016 I agree. It's absurd to expect people to figure out algorithms that someone else dedicated their life to it and carries their name. Dijskrtra, levenshtein distance, or whatever. I recently did a programming task where the questions were actually fair. What a breath of fresh air. I've been rejected and accepted by the same companies based off retarded interviewers too. Drives me nuts. >>6023 Yeah, musk types are trash. Most of my CS friends are musk types and bootlickers. A friend told me he's almost bourgeoise because more than 50% of his paycheck came from stocks. Sighs...
>>6021 Well those people have the right connections In other words pure luck The precarity IS the point, wagie! Love the job Love the pain Now go on get back in your cage!
>>6025 Did i said anything about java? I said the take is absolutely retarded. Yours is too, btw. >muh scripting language is language of SCIENTISTS so it's obviously better than any other language that i don't know. Also, if i would want speed, python is definitely not something i would choose.
>>6028 Will there ever be a shortage of labor like the boomers enjoyed again or is permanent precarity and reserve army of labor the new normal?
>>6030 Maybe there will be once climate change hits and billions die, or else there's another global war, otherwise no
>>6028 Those memes are very cute and all but they don't exactly help anyone feel better, do you have anything positive to share maybe? What the fuck are we actually supposed to do?
>>5991 >programming >work Don't make me laugh
>>6029 It is a dumb take but he was just a student?
>>6029 OP was saying he finds ML interesting. Python is the #1 data science language. He was also saying he primarily was working with python and that for whatever reason he hasn't found reasons to program in Java. I haven't had the need to program in C. Why would I know it?
>>5991 >spine and eyes I hate this shit the most, my eyes are absolutely fucked and Im nearing blindness yet the de facto wagie tool is a fucking monitor with annoying led lightbulbs burning your eyes 8 hours a day. Fucking porky never bothered working on Eink monitors because muh profit. If we had eink laptops I could work outside on a bench or something instead of under some flourescent cage
>>6032 This is capitalism, exploit or be exploited those are your only two options.
>>6037 Guess I might as well just die then, thanks.
>>6032 How the fuck should I know, I’m a NEET prole too, you’re on a commie forum, you figure it out
>>6038 Maybe if you can somehow maintain ethical integrity under capitalism you can exploit and then start giving back once you have a profitable biz, so far its never happened though. Even nonprofits are the most exploitative shit, they just exploit less. I’ve never heard of a place doing good under capitalism that didnt take advantage of people somehow
>>6034 Yeah, that is the problem. He is already a student and he doesn't have an engineering mindset. Probably should find something else just so that other devs won't have clean shit after him. >>6035 If he liked python so much he should've found a job with one, or learned java. He lied about his qualifications and then he whinned about "oh, why do they use this stupid java, python is a language of scientists". And then he got busted for not understending what he actually supposed to do.
>>6039 akshually, neets are precariat, so no you're not a prole.
I feel you, OP. At my first software dev job out of college I was constantly at risk of being fired. It was a terrible feeling and I felt like shit constantly. That was four years ago and somehow I grew from the experience and now am seen as a solid, dependable worker. Part of it is just giving less of a shit. Software development is like any other skill, just keep hammering away and eventually you will get it. Don't feel too bad about yourself because software teams nowadays don't bother with mentorship which traditionally was a crucial aspect of craftsmanship work in the past.
>>6040 Even co-ops like huawei have issues sometimes although from my interactions with their grunt bottom tier workers they're far happier and proud of their work than most wage slaves
>>5991 Atleast you got a job, i have a master degree in system's engineering and networks and i broke down after my first technical interview in 2 years. >video interview with CTO and RnD manager >CTO is being incredibly hostile and deriding all my answers to their questions saying I'm unqualified and incredibly underwhelming candidate >RnD manager playing the good cop role by trying to give me hints to their questions >stressed out to the point of not being able to answer basic algorithmic questions like iterate over binary trees etc... >I broke down and cried then shut off my pc
>>6045 they called me back and squeduled another interview though but i'd rather be homeless than work for people like that
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>>6041 >He lied about his qualifications and then he whinned about "oh, why do they use this stupid java, python is a language of scientists". And then he got busted for not understending what he actually supposed to do. holy based. think i found his office number.
>>6045 >solve an algorithm puzzle under artificial time constraints and with two nerds watching you <this is a very rational process to determine whether or not you can sit for hours writing CRUD apps this industry fucking sucks tbh
>>6043 He should try and find a good course online and just embrace not having any free time
>>6041 Why did he try and go for this job
>>6048 not just watching you, but insulting you every step you take. I came out of this experienced traumatized. What ironic tho is the CTO isn't even a CS grad but some coding bootcamp fag. He's insanely less qualified than but he had the gall to call me useless
>>6041 Is this the power of the STEMLord? Bro, this nigga isn't on some holy crusade to write Clean Code™. He just wants to get a job and get paid. He clearly isn't enjoying it at the moment. Are you jealous? Or are you a liberal (honest question)? Your comment sound vaguely bootlickery. >>6043 YES. This. Good advice. >>6045 You have to grow used to rejection and pressure. Interviewing is a separate skill. You get better by doing it a lot. Try larger companies. >>6048 Indeed. But we must remind ourselves that the worst part is the beginning of our careers. Getting internships while in college is more important than most classes you take, if not all. >>6051 Those entepeneur types are the fucking worst.
>>6048 This I absolutely hate puzzles in interviews. Jobs dont require wit and problem solving, just an pure masochistic determination. Muh smart worker is just a meme, it’s all about whose the best mule
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>reading this entire thread while im still in college I-is it actually this bad?
Java sucks anyway, don't feel bad for not knowing about it.
>>6047 Yeah, fucking up other proles is so class conscious.
>>6052 larger companies are more professional than startups. They'll never use those crappy interview tactics and insult their candidates. It's just amateurish. They have better ways of assessing your skills than through shitty leetcode puzzles
>>6053 I sent the famous fizz buzz problem as a prescreening. They needed to send the solution back via mail. You have no idea how effective a filter that is. In person, we put them an easy task, and a really hard task. The easy tasks they should get. The hard task, they shouldn't get but they should show initiative and not just freeze up and give up. A lot of people got the second task but we were very aware that it shouldn't affect our criteria. Of maybe 30 that passed the fizz buzz prescreen, we were left with 3 ok choices. I wish all programming interviews were held like mine was.
>>6057 I miss the verbal question and answer interviews, at least you could just lie your way through with a smile. This technical interview garbage means you almost always get rejected because no one is perfect
>>6052 >He just wants to get a job and get paid. He clearly isn't enjoying it at the moment. Doing shit job means someone else gonna pick up your slack. And it ain't gonna be the fucking porky. >Are you jealous? Or are you a liberal (honest question)? Your comment sound vaguely bootlickery. You sound like an anarchist. I guess it's allright fucking up other proles as long as you get a better salary.
>>6058 but fizzbuzz isn't exactly a puzzle, some people have never heard of it. Particularly non americans
>>6054 Are you a CS major? If so, check out Free Code Camp or something. What you learn in college is only barely applicable to working for some private corporate hellhole or startup mini feudal kingdom.
>>6054 Only if you are a dumb faggot. Otherwise it's just horrible.
>>6060 >Doing shit job means someone else gonna pick up your slack. And it ain't gonna be the fucking porky. As long as he keeps hammering out those unit tests he's pulling his weight
>>6058 Why screen their technical skills at all? Most people learn what’s needed of the technical stuff later on the job anyways. The only thing that really matters is the personality and how much of a dick they are to work with
>>6060 Nobody at my work picks up anyone elses weight. If they drop the ball they get blamed and feel the weight. Where do you work where coworkers will actually help you with your work???
>>6060 >not conspiring with coworkers to ship shitty code that you can't all get fired at once for >not making the codebase so obtuse that you're the domain experts of pure shit git gud
>>6060 sounds like what porky would say. Manager does not gives me any tasks, so i will be fired, but thats only because he cares about poor proles that would need to clean up my mess
>>6065 It's not about your technical skills. They couldn't give a lesser fuck if you can reverse a binary tree or not. They wanted to see if you can handle stressful environments.
>>6058 How do fail fizz buzz, especially if its by mail?
>>6060 Holy cuckery.
>>6057 Not really. This is the standard. You should really practice constantly if you are interviewing. You don't need red black trees, usually, but definitely basic ad hoc problems, array problems, graph problems, etc. >>6054 Just at the start. Get internships!!!!!! And do programming puzzles. Internships are suuuper important. Doesn't matter if they are unpaid, worth it. >>6060 If you don't work with him, shut the fuck up. Programming is a craft. It is porky's fault that he lacks the skill having gone through college. Fuck off, hyper individualist. >>6061 Agree. We got tons of replies that lacked proper indentation, unfinished work, database calls, file reads. All kinds of trash responses. >>6065 We were a tiny company, paying really well to student interns. We were paying 2x-4x what others were paying. The point was to get talent so we didn't have to train them. We didn't have enough resources to train someone on how to write a function. We got applicants that we requested they write a function that returns it's arguments, some people failed that. After that we started doing the prescreen.
>>6070 It's just a dumb trivia question. Some non americans probably wouldn't know what it is.
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>>6056 >Finally i lied about knowing someone and got a job as Java developer with no technical interview. how dare he betray the proletariat. filthy disgusting class traitor. but that's not half as bad as the implication that he's also a gl*sses-wearer. code monkey, you take java CRUD apps too seriously. lighten up.
>>6064 You actually need more knowledge in writing tests than in writing code, otherwise you are just increasing technical debt without any reason. And judging by what he wrote, no, he ain't pulling his weight. I understand the alienation shit and i feel no love for porky and business owners, but i ain't lying on the interwies to get better salary, ffs. You have to be fucking aware how your action affect people around you.
>>6073 I'm not american, but I'd assume they explained what it is first
>>6072 >Programming is a craft it's just software plumbing. any retard could do it. They teach prison inmates to do leetcode
>>6066 Because if someone did shitty job, someone else have to finish it and do a better one. It is not even that bad when previous code just get deleted and starts anew, though it does mean that next guy will have closer deadline to finish the project, the worst part is when it is actually put to work and other guys will have to maintain this piece of shit code. So yes, by doing shit job, you make someone else clean your shit.
>>6076 Some people would probably be very confused and think the interviewer is speaking in tongues. It makes no sense to filter out candidates on something so retarded
>>6062 I'm doing an Electrical Engineering major. I know I should be doing something else besides college work but I just can't find the time for it and every time I tried taking some auxiliary course it ate significantly into my grades (that's apart from the large amount of time I waste doing nothing), and I couldn't go anywhere this year because of covid. >>6063 What does this mean? >>6072 >Just at the start. Get internships!!!!!! And do programming puzzles. Internships are suuuper important. Doesn't matter if they are unpaid, worth it. I honestly don't know if I want to go right into employment after I graduate or if I want to continue studying and get a master's. Post-graduate studying is a golden opportunity if you want to immigrate to some wealthy first world country which is what I want.
>>6068 No, it is what someone whos job often involves cleaning shit after faggots like you sounds like. Are you retarded or dishonest that you completely miinterpreted what i said?
>>6068 Yep. Slave mentality. >>6069 I once got rejected at a big company because the interviewer was wrong about the solution. Plainly wrong. I was sure I was right but he insisted his approach was the correct one, except he didn't explain much. I had no choice but to believe him and try to work out what his secret solution was. When the interview was done, I asked him what the solution was. I checked it online and indeed it was the wrong answer. This is a common occurrence. >>6070 I know, right? It was super effective. You could choose any language too. >>6076 >>6073 Yes, we explained the problem very thoroughly with examples. The problem was changed a little so that they couldn't outright google the solution.
>>6075 bro I'm an debugs assembly guy Useful unit tests aren't that hard >Foar given input does correct output come out y/n? That's good enough for crud work and I'd rather someone else do it so I can do the fun stuff of finding and fixing the retarded rockstar's segfaults and race conditions
>>6077 Based
>>6072 >Programming is a craft. It is porky's fault that he lacks the skill having gone through college. Fuck off, hyper individualist. Said the guy who is okay that some other prole gonna clean up after this retard. Yeah, that is thinking about others, definitely.
>>6072 >Programming is a craft Imagine actually believing this. Programming is such a shitty job and is as intellectualy demanding as plumbing. >>6082 what do you ask your candidates? Because i have a hard time believing anyone fails fizzbuzz
>>6083 Then they aren't very useful. I don't think you understand what managing technical debt means.
>>6078 Oh no, anon messed up and now someone has to fix it instead of... working on some other stupid thing. If more engineers gave less of a shit then porky takes the hit. Engineers are only highly paid because porky doesn't want to deal with software at all despite it being the bedrock of contemporary capitalist transanctions, you are part of the solution you idiots.
>>6079 When someone applied, we sent them an email to send us a solution to the problem in any language. There was no time limit. The words were changed too. Many didn't even respond to the email. We got insanely bad solutions. Many were outright wrong and couldn't run or compile if wanted to do it. >>6085 Stop bootlicking for porky. If you are half as competent as you imply you are, which you are clearly not, you would realize this is an unrealistic scenario. Code reviews exist for a reason. If you do proper code reviews, you don't do someone else's work, you help them fix their work. So besides being a bootlicker, you aren't even a good software engineer. Lol.
>>6088 >Oh no, anon messed up and now someone has to fix it instead of... working on some other stupid thing. Not instead. With other stupid thing that i already have on my plate. >Engineers are only highly paid because porky doesn't want to deal with software at all despite it being the bedrock of contemporary capitalist transanctions No, it is because products of our labor can replace labor from dozens or even hundreds of other people.
>>6086 >Because i have a hard time believing anyone fails fizzbuzz Ahahahahahhahahaaaaaaaa Ohohohohohoooooo Heeeheeeheeheeee >>6087 Bruh for clean beautiful code sure Crud applications are all business logic and business logic is all edge cases In fact the client lockin comes from the technical debt Simple IO pass fail test cases are what you want Then you add more to test the edge cases
>>6086 Plumbing is a craft as well. Not everyone knows how to do it. You need someone to show you. Not because it is hell like doesn't mean it isn't a skill you pick up by mentorship and practice. >Because i have a hard time believing anyone fails fizzbuzz We were very surprised as well. This is in LATAM. I'll try to find a solution when I'm on my PC.
>>6092 Plumbing is actually useful and probably pays better than coding tho
>>6089 >muh bootlicking Are you seriously that insecure? Code reviews exists to catch mistakes, not to comletely replace education. >NOOOO, YOU ARE BAD ENGINEER AND BOOTLICKER Cry me a river, shithead. Supporting liars and opportunists is not being class conscious. I guess that is why you fuckers never had a revolution.
>>6078 What a dumb prole mindset. You’re getting paid to do your job, what difference does it make if you’re working on his work or yours idiot? Unless you unironically think porky gives a shit about your ‘job performance’ or ‘deadlines’ lol
>>6093 Depends where you are. Where I am from, it doesn't pay well at all. You'd have to work several jobs to equate it to a software engineering job, which are also very underpaid compared to US or EU. >>6094 >You guys Ok /pol/ >Code reviews are to catch mistakes not replace education So it's still prokys fault. And if the whole PR is a mistake, you don't merge it, fucktard. Imagine being pissed other people are trying to get a job and earn a living wage. Eat shit, retard.
>>6086 Plumbing is more of a craft
>>6094 >Supporting liars and opportunists is not being class conscious. Having no concern for the plight of new grads and junior developers isn't class conscious either. Industry veterans are so blind to the current reality of how fucking impacted junior dev roles are. If they want to learn actual skills, they have to go to a fucking coding bootcamp or something and pay small porkies 20 thousand dollars. I would rather work with an inexperienced person who can be shown the ropes than some faggot arrogant engineer who probably wears dumbass tech conference T-shirts.
>>6095 It increases my load, obviously. Is burger education so bad that even reading comprehension is a rare skill?
>>6096 (me) >inb4 you cry that it makes your retarded code base worse If you aren't going to pay for his sustenance, kindly shut the fuck up.
>>6099 Part of the job of a more senior dev is training newbies. You've never done this before? Hmmm it shows...
>>6096 >So it's still prokys fault. And if the whole PR is a mistake, you don't merge it, fucktard. And they aren't the one who gonna pay the price, fucktard. >Imagine being pissed other people are trying to get a job and earn a living wage. Sure, sure, i guess fucking up other proles is ok.
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>>6082 >Be me >Techanon >Have to do a few interviews a week >Applicant's resume looks fantastic; great GPA from a top program, fantastic recommendations, dozens of open source projects. Github is picrel >Only one blemish: anime profile pic on his github and his twitter is filled with memes of some german philosopher who calls everything ghosts >Finally meet the guy in person >400 pounds, neckbeard, cargo shorts, and Stallman-as-jesus t-shirt >and the stench >god the stench >have to get this interview over as fast as possible >give him a problem meant for a different department >the autist fucking solves it >shit shit shit >whatever there's no oversight. I'll just say he's wrong >dodge a bullet
>>6094 >Code reviews exists to catch mistakes, not to comletely replace education. That's not my experience from reviewing senior developers code >>6098 >I would rather work with an inexperienced person who can be shown the ropes than some faggot arrogant engineer who probably wears dumbass tech conference T-shirts. Either is fine tbqh because they're the same thing
Not everyone can program, there's a lot of people who can't do basic logic. For loops, if statements. Recursion is impossible. By can't do it I mean, it's practically impossible to teach to them. They just don't get it no matter what you say. They've been trying to destroy programmer wages by increased supply for 10+ years at this point and haven't been that successful. OP, find a new job. It won't get better there. On your resume, write that you worked on a live product for this job you have now. And do some stretches dude, get some exercise. Your back shouldn't be fucked.
>>6099 Then its on your employer for not adjusting your workload. Take a hit there's a common factor in your woes
>>6099 It’s not increasing your load, it’s part of your load idiot. Your paid to be present there, not paid on how much work is on your plate. The boss could come up to you tomorrow and increase your workload 4x and you know what? You’d still have to do it and eat shit.
>>6103 y not just negotiate for him to telecomute?
>>6101 No, i have a team under me. Mostof them were junior devs that are now pretty experienced and professional. But you know, i don't remember them lying that they can do something they can't. I had one shithead who lied his ass about his experience and i was pretty lax at the time. He lied about the project status too. In the end we fired him and had to work overtime to deal with the shit he left after him. After that i am obviously not gonna tolerate ahit like that.
>Finally i lied about knowing someone and got a job as Java developer with no technical interview. OP you did literally nothing wrong. The autist in here ranting about "class consciousness" has no clue what he's talking about, you aren't a class traitor because your interviewers hired you without assessing your technical ability and were subsequently underwhelmed by it.
>>6106 Oh jeez, it's not like i told several times already that i know about how fucking capitalism works. And i said that it is not gonna be porkies who gonna pay for your shitty job, it is gonna be customers or other workers. Are you burgers really that retarded that you can't even fucking read?
>>6103 Kek
>>6103 hahahah I wish I were as based. I'm better looking compared to almost all of my colleagues. >>6110 Truth. >>6105 >Not everyone can program, there's a lot of people who can't do basic logic. My experience is that those people do end up getting good jobs. They're usually not good developers but they perform well enough to have stable employment. I know people like that, that work at microsoft for example. >They've been trying to destroy programmer wages by increased supply for 10+ years at this point Very true. >and haven't been that successful. I'd argue the contrary. Considering how much the industry has exploded, wages are stagnant and in many occasions declining.
>>6111 >Not the heckin' consumerinos. Not a yank and how does that even answer what I just said
>>6111 We can read alright. We read what you wrote and concluded it's retarded.
>>6111 >Are you burgers really that retarded that you can't even fucking read? They are **But I do dispute your notion that his unit tests aren't useful If they weren't they'd have already fired him** t. >>6104 >>6091 >>6083
>>6111 >Are you burgers really that retarded that you can't even fucking read? This question is an interesting one for you to be raising since you seem to have misread the OP, who said he "lied about knowing someone" and was hired sans technical interview while you seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that the text supports the claim that he "lied that he can do something he can't."
>>6109 Again it’s all part of your job. And it is that way because of your boss, his hr team and porky. Blame them not the prole who’s desperate to get a job and feed himself fag
>>6116 >**But I do dispute your notion that his unit tests aren't useful Well, i never said that. The thing about writing tests is that it is often done "just because", but it should be done based on how critical some segments are and wherever it would actually reduce costs of further development, not increase it. Writing unit tests without understanding the business logic and at least some understanding of architecture most of the time gonna just increase technical debt immensely without a lot fo returns. So, unit tests are useful in the right context, but taking junior dev and make him write tests is not a very useful strategy in the long term.
>>6119 >Writing unit tests >Not property tests You started out wrong. Otherwise agree. You should apologize to OP for being a cunt. It seems being a manager really got to your head.
>>6117 No, i read it correctly. It amount to same shit - he got a job he knew in advance is something he doesn't understand how to do. Though of course, not doing technical interview just because "he knows someone" is rpetty retarded on their part to. >>6118 Well, next time someone fixes your car and it will break in the middle of nowhere, be sure not to blame poor guy who just trying to survive.
>actually writing tests smh. what a waste of time? who's got time for that? bunch of fancylads who aren't making anything of value
>>6120 >You should apologize to OP for being a cunt. It seems being a manager really got to your head. I had to deal with cunts like him and i saw the costs others have to pay, so no, fuck him. Also, not really a manager, i am a team lead/tech lead, but also have to write code too and do system architechture stuff.
>>6121 If I was a customer I could blame them. If I’m a worker at the mechanic shop, why should I give a fuck if the repair fails
>>6121 >No, i read it correctly. You absolutely did not. >It amount to same shit This is moving the goal posts. Come on I'm learning a second language too and I understand that it is difficult, but what does it cost you to have some humility and allow people to correct you?
>>6119 Yeah but let's be useful and save someone's career and someone elses sanity >business logic >architecture Hey OP, if you understand these two terms, you'll keep your job You may not like it and it may still be boring grinding hell but you'll keep it Savvy us here comrade? If you don't understand ask what they are and be curious
>>6124 >If I’m a worker at the mechanic shop, why should I give a fuck if the repair fails And you fuckers have balls to call me individualist. This is your brain on burgers. God bless amerikkka or something.
>>6121 You’re not the customer of your code, you’re just an codemonkey that builds it. If your code fails the boss will take the heat. He will inevitably blame you, but once again that’s his own fault not his laborers.
>>5991 >Python is used by scientists in all interesting areas like ML Because ml is not programming dummy. If they taught you only shitty python at a programming should you should sue them and also review bomb them. Python is not used to develop software, it is the dumbed down programming language used for quick shit and by people who use it to interface with actual complex code. I'm sorry for you anon. Maybe try and learn some html CSS real quick and get an internship at a webdev job. JavaScript is way closer to python in terms of complexity of application, than java.
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>>5991 By the sounds of it you're a total fucking incompetent who had that coming. I'm a graduate software engineer myself and we're by no means exploited, we earn very good wages for doing comparatively way less work than what's required of graduates in most careers, most of our time is spent sitting watching Maven builds run or writing pointless unit tests. You just took a job you knew you weren't qualified for and now you've been caught, there's no wider societal phenomena specific to junior programmers that caused the predicament you're in. How were you never even taught Java at the CS school you went to? It's the second most commonly used programming language in the industry.
>>6126 >Yeah but let's be useful and save someone's career and someone elses sanity He is better off doing something else, actually. I would too, if i could. The industry is shit, you are better off as some mechanic or electrician.
>>6128 What if your code drives heavy machinery?
>>6127 Imagine caring this much about your boss’ profits bootlicker
>>6130 i was taught it, but java is not java ee
>>6005 Most of them nowadays.
>>6130 >I'm a graduate software engineer myself and we're by no means exploited Retard, read Marx. That's not what exploitation means.
>>6133 This is what doing useless or even counterproductive work does to somebodies mind t. >>6132
>>6130 >we're by no means exploited, Sighs... It's an uphill battle with my colleagues.
>>6128 A lot fo code handles critical functions. Imagine that someone's else shitty work bricked your computer or, more likely, phone with all your data there. Or just leave a big security hole and someone now have those juicy nudes you were sending to your gf/bf. Not even gonna go into stuff like perating medical machinery and shit. Bad programs kill, mate.
>>6132 Doesn’t matter, I worked at a company that built catheters for patients. And you know what, the quality there was dirt poor and laughable. These are medical devices going into people’s bodies and they had 0 standards because of capitalist greed. Why do you think your ‘clean code’ is more important than that as an end product???
>>6139 If my car repair fails, I blame the foreman. I don't blame the junior. Same with code.
Stem lords ITT need to read marx and stop bootlicking. Fuck me.
>>6025 Using / applying machine learning is not programming. And under the hood the python wraps a library written in c or some other close to the metal language.
>>6140 >Why do you think your ‘clean code’ is more important than that as an end product??? Because it is not "or". It is exactly end product that i am worrying about (and my coworkers obviously). Making shitty code, you make other lives shitty (and sometimes even shorter). It has nothing to do with porky's profits. Porky ain't gonna buy this cheap shit nor he gonna pay the price of shoddy work.
>>6136 Yeah okay sorry, in Marxist terms we're proles like everyone else but OP is stating that junior programmers are the "most exploited" of proles which is retarded. >>6134 They're the same language.
>>6145 Caring about other proles is bootlicking, mate.
>>6143 >Using / applying machine learning is not programming. But it entails writing programs.
>>6142 It’s just one bootlicking people of college reeeing about proles lying to get the job this whole thread
>>6144 Nigga, take the hint. If you aren't paying for OPs sustenance, you have no right to speak. Are you even a leftist? Serious question.
>>6129 It would make sense if he went on a data science course or something
>>6150 If you can't understand what i repeatedly wrote in this thread, you are hopeless. Yes, i am a communist. What kind of "leftist" are you, mate?
>>6149 True. It makes me extra mad cause he reminds me of my musk fanboy CS friends. They work at big tech and always defend the company, no matter how terrible the news is.
>>6054 If you learned an actual useful language (not python which is not used to write applications, but is used by non programmers instead) it shouldn't be an issue.
>>6152 I'm a leftist. I understood perfectly. I would never hire OP. But I respect his struggle. Why would I take it personal? He's just trying to live well, and he hates it on top of that.
>>6150 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAcj7QNacNM >West Gate Bridge Survivor Tommy Watson gives candid account of the horror.
>>6154 Ive written multiple software projects in python for clients.
>>6154 Or he could have gotten some kind of analyst job where python is useful?
>>6144 First I doubt your code is used in an important end product. Second. You’re just a cog in the capitalist machine. You’re not saving lives by making clean code just as those proles with poor quality catheters aren’t killing anyone by pushing shitty product. Even if people were to die, blood would be on your CEO’s head, not yours. Again blame porkies, politics and management that allow this shit to happen, not proles.
>>6148 Machine learning is largely formatting data and feeding it to the machine learning algorithm. It's not software engineering, it's using code. Just like a guy cutting some wood to prop up machine isn't a carpenter. Writing code =/= software engineering. "Learn to code" means "learn software engineering". Python is an additional skill for scientists. The machine learning stuff itself is not written in python. Python is an easy to read, forgiving scripting language, a sort of sledgehammer, java is more like a cnc machine.
>>6155 >I'm a leftist I asked "what kind". I joked about reading comprehension in this thread already, not gonna do it again. >Why would I take it personal? Well, let's just jope next plane you are flying on ain't programmed by a guy who lied on his resume.
>>6144 Before you’re allowed to moralfag any further, tell us how “important” your code is by telling us what it’s used in??? Either way did the OP say his java code was being used in med devices or something? No, so the quality of code doesnt even fucking matter ffs In b4 “social media” lmao
>>6161 blame porky for not troubleshooting and testing his shitty code before giving it comercial use
>>6160 software engineering =/= programming either If you are going to pedantic at least be pedantic in your own writing
>>1121710 don't worry sociopathic rightoid engineers will be culled eventually too just as capitalists sell you the rope to hang them with, engineers provide capitalists the tools to make themselves useless in return for a paycheck that might not be there once you hit middle age while the Zuck is still out there glorifying 22 year olds who will work 14 hour days
>>6161 The code written for planes is probably in basic or machine language. Don’t act like your codemonkey job is comparable
>>6144 >>6130 >>6123 i know its bad that i lied and accepted job i am not quite qualified for, but i was quite desperated, there is no python jobs here, and i was sending out CVs last few years, and always got ghosted or rejected. So imagine you have few hundred dollars on your bank account and get offer you are not truly qualified for. Do you reject it because of concern for others? Its not like i did not tried too. I made task that was required of me, i even spend free time doing it. Before my first day at job i spend two weeks making imageboard using react and JAX-RS. Its shitty but it works. Task i did also works i tested it manually and automatically too. But he does accept my PR, if code is shitty why wont he tell me that. He says that he will find me new tasks, then he talks shit about me and about firing me behind my backs. Its so bad. I am doing whatever i can. Why wont he just fire me if he does not want me to do my work
>>6159 >Again blame porkies, politics and management that allow this shit to happen, not proles. If we are taking bird eye view, porkies aren't to blame either, the system of capitalism is. But, surprisingly, it doesn't remove some personal responsibility. For me there is a difference between making mistake because deadline was pushed further and making something shitty knowingly because i lied on my resume. If people suffer as a result of this, i am gonna feel differentely about those cases. And if you gonna absolve proles from their fuck ups, you should do same for porkies and lumpens too. But hey, i bet you ain't gonna be so generous on their account.
>>6166 >The code written for planes is probably in basic or machine language Please shut the fuck up about things you do not understand.
>>6160 However, if we say that the act of programming is the act of writing programs, then it is incontrovertible that when people "do machine learning" with a computer what they doing is indeed programming.
>>6159 >Second. You’re just a cog in the capitalist machine. You’re not saving lives by making clean code just as those proles with poor quality catheters aren’t killing anyone by pushing shitty product. Pressing X hard here >>6163 >blame porky for not troubleshooting and testing his shitty code before giving it comercial use This looks callous but it shouldn't be underestimated, it's a direct and inevitable consequence of your labour being alienated Alienation kills >>6167 >Its shitty but it works. Task i did also works i tested it manually and automatically too. But he does accept my PR, if code is shitty why wont he tell me that. He says that he will find me new tasks, then he talks shit about me and about firing me behind my backs. Definite managemant issue not a you issue >>6167 >I am doing whatever i can. Why wont he just fire me if he does not want me to do my work Because what you're doing is useful to him
>>6167 >there is no python jobs here Why are you lying again? >Do you reject it because of concern for others? Yes. The choice ain't that much different for me compared to just taking a hammer and slamming some poor fucking in the dark alley on the head to get his wallet. Just with different amount of steps inbetween.
>>6168 >porkies aren’t to blame either And there we have it. Great job my people of college slave, promotion tomorrow at 9.
>>6166 I feel dumber just from reading this.
>>6170 Saying that machine learning is just programming is like saying writing a post-it note is the same as being a writer. The python coding part is a tiny part of the job, the most part of ml is data scientist stuff, collecting data, thinking of ways to classify, refining data etc. Working on using machine learning is being a data scientist, not being a programmer. Someone with perfect knowledge of python and nothing else is unable to use machine learning.
>>6173 Have you read Marx, mate? Capitalist system put pressure on porkies to act like that just as it does on proles. Or do you tinbk it is because all porkies are just bad? This would be just idealism that borders on "we just need the RIGHT people in power, let's kill all the wrong ones"
>>6176 So eliminating capitalism and making porkies cease to be porkies is good for them?
>>6168 You vastly overestimate the significance and power you have in writing clean code vs the power your boss porky and CEO have for literally everything else. This is why blame is put on the CEO’s head, in fact porky investors hire CEO figureheads to take the blame in the first place. They guide the direction of the company if quality was important to them then you bet your ass off there would be 0 issues with code or anything else. Again once more, blame porky and not the proles. The proles are just the mules of investors and CEOs.
>>6167 >But he does accept my PR, if code is shitty why wont he tell me that. Because he is a dickhead and if he isn't the boss probably also overworked. Ask your colleagues a bit, put your new java knowledge on your CV, call a recruiter and explain your situation and where you work right noe. They will find you a job, just be super honest about your skill. >He says that he will find me new tasks, then he talks shit about me and about firing me behind my backs. Because he wants you to quit. If your contract or local law stipulates some kind of being fired benefits they want you to chicken out so they won't pay. This is done by all companies constantly, it happened to my dad. Just hang on, look for a new job, don't stress over doing a good job because you're gonna get fired anyway. Just pretend to work hard and meanwhile look for some other job (with python only).
>>6179 >Cobol isn't high level >Airplane stuff is written in fucking pure assembly You're talking out of your ass, brainlet .t worked on fucking transpilation of cobol code to java
>>6181 Also cobol is fucking ez, it's just really unsafe and autistic.
>>6161 I am active in an ML org. I subscribe to marxism among others. >Well, let's just jope next plane you are flying on ain't programmed by a guy who lied on his resume. This is hysterics. Most code done is for bullshit products. It is your job to screen for excellent engineers if you work at those places. Don't excuse your hate for people who are struggling to make a living.
>>6177 Yes, unironically. Proletariat frees other classes by freeing itself.
>>6181 Must feel bad knowing your code and everything you’ve worked for in life is not important? Fag
real lefties program in ml
>>6175 True he is fucked if he studied Python and no ML/stats. Also while its obviously different to software development using python is actually programming (the word does have a definition).
>>6183 >among others. Jesus. >This is hysterics. No, this is experience. I am not gonna say that every code people write has potential for killing someone, but it is a lot more than you think, due to how interconnected every shit is on our planet. Also, just because nobody died, doesn't mean nobody suffered.
>>6187 Yes but that's not what "learn to code" means and also it what > I am student at pretty bad computer science school Is It must have been an absolutely terrible school if your take away is that ml is programming of that with just python you can do ml.
>>6185 If only you knew how bad things really are http://magazine.aerospacemanufacturinganddesign.com/article/october-2016/updating-diagnostics-for-boeings-737-max.aspx >DD: The most unique element of this project was that we used a functional programming language, Clojure, to write the software and were the first ones to use this language on commercial aircraft. Clojure is a relatively new software language that allowed us to write rules and code capable of handling massive amounts of data under significant hardware limitations. We estimate that if we had used Java to write the OMF, it would have resulted in more than half a million lines of code, which would have been significantly more difficult to test and debug. The OMF was written in just 32,000 lines of Clojure code. It is also the first time Clojure has been used on aircraft software.
>>6166 >The code written for planes is probably in basic or machine language. Don’t act like your codemonkey job is comparable Airplanes uses multiple different systems to avoid a SPOF. They are probably coded in many different languages. >>6179 Doesn't that contradict that COBOL is stable and just does its job?
>>6024 in what way is focusing on one programming language incompetence in your worm addled brain?
>>6186 Fucking ml has too many definitions in this context. Machine learning, Marxist Leninist or meta language
>>6193 MacLisp
>>6021 >Unironically how do retards find that a job brings them ‘security’ or ‘stability’?? doesn't exist nowadays, complete pipe dream
>>6189 >Yes but that's not what "learn to code" means and also it what I mean I don't know, I've always assumed that was a catch all for getting into the data bubble. ML Engineer or Data Science jobs pay just as well as software dev jobs. >It must have been an absolutely terrible school if your take away is that ml is programming of that with just python you can do ml. You do get jobs that don't require much theory but they generally want people who can work with databases and C++ too.
>>6167 He doesn't want to pay layoff probably. What country are you working in? >>6172 >Finding work is equivalent to murdering people Big brain take >>6178 Let's not forget who pushed the OOP neoliberal shit show, porky and his lackeys. >>6186 Based ML deviations: Haskell, Idris2, Purescript Reformist revisionist ML: Elm >>6188 Ok. Nice moralism based on anecdotal evidence. What if OP is working on automated spam websites? By doing shitty software he might be saving people's lives. If we're playing mental masturbation games, OP works for the NSA and makes the next PRISM.
>>6192 You both limit your thinking and your employability in an industry that changes programming languages and frameworks quicker than a 17 year old changes political ideologies.
>>6197 >OP works for the NSA and makes the next PRISM. OP is coding nuclear warheads in python
Python is the windows 10 of coding languages. Its literal purpose is to be like Word or Excel - an easy to access tool for anyone who isn't specialized for that stuff. The fact that scientists use it doesn't mean its good, it means that they are physicists, economists and mathematicians who didn't spend 4+ years learning how to code. Also its retarded to discard high-end or low-end languages, they all have their purpose, with only exception being shit like Pascal which outlived its purpose. You're not going to code a clock with in Python, and you're not going to code OGAS with assembly.
>>6197 >Idris2 Learn agda, let the unicode flow through you
>>6199 OP is working on American electoral machines.
>>6200 >not using R for everything
>>6203 >not c++
>>6201 It looks intimidating. I had a really hard time learning haskell.
>>6190 You write code for aircraft and you want me to believe that you are the last vanguard for safety checks and that if you write buggy code the deaths of all the passengers would be on your head?? Wtf get real, when has anyone blamed the codemonkeys for a failure over their company or their boss??
>>6197 >Ok. Nice moralism based on anecdotal evidence. What if OP is working on automated spam websites? By doing shitty software he might be saving people's lives. What if your mailbox has a couple of thousand new mails in the morning? And by overloading spam filters some mail servers that he was using are banned by your provider and you missed several importan emails? And not only you, but several thousand people too. I know how this shit works, i have seen shit break because of some fucker's fuck up that is seemingly completely unrelated. How about you loose some insurance because of some glitch on some file sharing server that insurance company used to save costs (because it was free and shitty)? Potential example are limitless and happen every fucking day, so fuck off "marxist among other things"
>>6204 Epic low level genius programmer is epic! Have some reddit gold
>>6206 So you okay with fruits of your labor bringing death to people as long as you aren't to blame?
>>6205 It is literally man's greatest creation. You will want to kill yourself after learning just a fraction of it because you'll never get to use it in practice.
>>6029 >Also, if i would want speed, python is definitely not something i would choose. idiot level take. guess you don't understand that all languages are used for a different purpose? python is used for mainly data science and ml, and hey guess what the frameworks you will use while doing those things are all pre-compiled and not written in python for exactly the speed consideration. so why is python used? the answer is that its easy to prototype in, easy to understand at a glance without having to know low level shit, is extremely portable, and it has a consistent and well supported library ecosystem. basically it's a language for mathematicians and data scientists. if you don't understand that you either an autist or an idiot, take your pick. also shitting on op in a thread where he's already depressed over his course being crap (something completely out of his control) and this having extreme consequences for his life is just downright cruel so shut the fuck up.
>>6207 This is why we need to implement communism yesterday
>>6211 Its a terrible choice if want to be software dev tho
>>6208 Isn't C++ textbook mid-tier language? C is pretty low, and Java is somewhat high, but C++ is basically in the middle.
>>6213 it is yes, but that's the fault of the shitty university he attended not his, and most people these days don't get to pick where they go
>>6209 That’s literally everyone’s job under capitalism halfwit
stemfags cry more
>>6217 Hey, we have a shot at being public sector beurocrats. Humanity fags on the other hand do not.
>>6210 So there's something even greater than haskell. Sounds incredible already.
>>6218 oh we do (i mean prob your bourger humanists don't, but here we do)
>>6217 The neoliberal reveals its final form >>6218 Not all of us are lucky enough to live in China comrade
>>6207 OP works at the scientology contact page team. Not an aircraft. Stop saying irrelevant shit.
>>6214 "high-level" is not rigidly defined. C was introduced as a high-level language as opposed to writing assembly manually.
>>6222 Kek, but muh code is literally lifesaving!!!!
>>6218 Does anyone got that Stonetoss meme with tankie dreaming about being a gosplan director? Because that is literally how I feel.
>>6223 Okay but relative to the languages used today, C is low-level
>>6223 True. Although to answer the other anons question, C++ is "mid tier" or low level, depending who you ask. All VM or JIT languages including JS are considered high level. >>6226 Most people today would say it's low level, yeah
>>6210 You seem to have it confused with mankind's actual greatest creation, ATS. ATS is a language that uses theorem-proving for practical programming. Here is a straightforward implementation of a tail-recursive factorial. // Some lemmas on multiplication are stated (without proofs) extern prval MULlem00 : {x,y:int} () -[orange]prf> [xy:int] MUL (x, y, xy) // 1 * x = x extern prval MULlem10 : {x,y:int} MUL (1, x, y) -[orange]prf> [x==y] void // x * 1 = x extern prval MULlem11 : {x,y:int} MUL (x, 1, y) -[orange]prf> [x==y] void // multiplication is associative: (xy)z = x(yz) extern prval MULlem20 : {x,y,z,xy,yz,xyz:int} (MUL (x, y, xy), MUL (y, z, yz), MUL (xy, z, xyz)) -[orange]prf> MUL (x, yz, xyz) // [fact2] implements the factorial function in a tail-recursive style fn fact2 {n:nat} (n: int n): [r0: int] (FACT (n, r0) | int r0) = let // [loop] is tail-recusive fun loop {n:nat; x:int} .[orange] n >. (n: int n, x: int x) : [r,r0:int] (FACT (n, r), MUL (x, r, r0) | int r0) = if n > 0 then let val (pf_mul_x_n_xn | xn) = x imul2 n val (pf_fac_n1_r1, pf_mul_xn_r1_r0 | res) = loop (n-1, xn) prval pf_mul_n_r1_nr1 = MULlem00 () prval pf_mul_x_nr1_r0 = MULlem20 (pf_mul_x_n_xn, pf_mul_n_r1_nr1, pf_mul_xn_r1_r0) prval pf_fac_n_nr1 = FACTind (pf_fac_n1_r1, pf_mul_n_r1_nr1) in (pf_fac_n_nr1, pf_mul_x_nr1_r0 | res) end else let prval pf_mul_x_1_y = MULlem00 () // x * 1 = y prval () = MULlem11 (pf_mul_x_1_y) // x = y in (FACTbas (), pf_mul_x_1_y | x) end val (pf_fac, pf_mul | res) = loop (n, 1) prval () = MULlem10 (pf_mul) in (pf_fac | res) end https://youtu.be/zt0OQb1DBko
>>6228 Is this like Coq or TLA+?
>>6216 PM( fag finally btfo’d. >against individualism >assigns individualist blame in capitalist system of exploitation >REeeE but he lied on job application!!! :’( >my code is jesus’s second coming! >but muh workload is more, argh I hate proles!!! >Being proper software dev means learning my favorite language
>>6229 >Coq Hehehehehe
>>6228 This is where i depart this thread
>>6225 Being a burocrat doesn't automatically mean top of the pile.
>>6231 Apparently it was deliberately named like that to fuck with Anglos
>>6230 Being a software dev means learning basically any programming language other than python
>>6229 Very very different from Coq. I know nothing about TLA+.
>>6228 this is your programming when high on category theory
>>6237 wtf it has little if anything to do with category theory.
>>6228 Pah, Agda is the theorem-prover of the future. I mean just look at this http://liamoc.net/posts/2015-08-23-verified-compiler.html Look how cleanly you can express language semantics as a datatype. Look how nice it is to define your own operators! Look at the unicode!
>>6235 or php
HELLO SINCE WE ARE DOING A LANGUAGE PISSING CONTEXT https://drakon.su/drakon_language._for_english_speaking_world IS SOVIET SUPERSCIENCE
>>6239 But can Agda fold over a list and copy it as efficiently as a while/for loop with initial null in one pass without macros, continuations, peep holing, or optimization pragmas? The purpose of ATS is not that is has a fancy type system and can prove theorems but that it can do things such as tail allocation and pass holes around in even imperative programs with the same performance profile as C without sacrificing safety or richness of expression. However the fact that the language not only doesn't support unicode but has keywords such as [email protected], [email protected] I concede does make its source code less aesthetically pleasing than Agda.
>>6242 >its source code is less aesthetically pleasing than Agda Agda wins again
>>6243 >Screwdrivers are more widely used than cnc machines which means you should use a screwdriver to craft high precision complex objects.
>>6239 I have no idea what this is supposed to tell me
>>6239 What the fuck, I didn't know using unicode in languages was a thing. Do you have to memorize the codes?
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>>6244 i cant even cope
>>6247 I think any ide could do you one better and just allow you to define some sort of written piece that gets converted to the unicode char. Like type [+] and have it change to ⊞ or whatever. Just helps with readability. You could just as well park a fuckton of chinese characters in there.
>>6245 >Screwdrivers do some things more efficiently and better than complex machinery, but because I’m an elitist I don’t consider them as tools
>>6250 Use Matlab to do software development
>>6243 >they are more popular cope. C is number 1 on tiobe. >>6251 based electrical engineer "developer"
Okay stop shit flinging for a second and hear me out. What college degree is worth it? Is there any piece of paper that will get you a job? Or do you just have to socialize in college and get some nepotism hire when your friend gets hired by his dad at his fortune 500? Am I just supposed to make bourgeois connections? >be me >drop out of highschool bc of drama/mental health >start working a shit job, doing highschool online >time for college >want to get dumbass degree in music >bail last second bc imposter syndrome. >never had more than $1000 at a time, now I am supposed to spend 15k all at once???? >move to another state to avoid people more >work for a year >decide working min wage sucks ass >get baited into doing code bootcamp >covid starts hitting while I am in school. >web dev job market -60% once I am looking for jobs >have to move back in with parents in hometown >teaching code to children for shit pay, not enough hours to move out >trying to start community college, 3 years late >dont care what degree I get anymore, just want to have a stable job that can support a family >no degree does that what fucking do????
>>6253 >dont care what degree I get anymore, just want to have a stable job that can support a family What do you think this is? 1999? Welcome to the cyberpunk dystopia of today! Oh and, survive, read and try to organize.
>>6251 Use software development to do Matlab
>>6253 I donno anon, but jobs are tied to geography really. Find where the hotspots for your preferred job is and move there/look for jobs there. Programmer and IT fags do really well in silicon valley for the most part, elsewhere not so much. As for degree, I donno I dropped out and have been precariat for a long time.
Psychology is even worse. You think you'll change the world but it's basically teaching workers to cope with capitalist exploitation unless you are really influential (which I'm not). One must imagine sisyphus on antidepressants.
>>6253 >Is there any piece of paper that will get you a job? Or do you just have to socialize in college A little from column A, a little from column B. The piece of paper gets you past HR to the real interview. Knowing people can do the same. Frankly if you haven't gotten deeply into programming by now you probably shouldn't chase a career in it becaude you'll be competing with people who love it. A better path is to just get IT certifications. IT pays as well as the code monkey jobs you'll get if you aren't deeply passionate about programming.
>>6054 It's worse dawg. It's completely pointless work and long hours and stress and you change jobs a lot.
>>6258 Bro I’ve always heard ‘IT’ namedropped but what are the actual job position titles?! Like system administrator or something?
Python is super based. Only arguments against it are from legitimate autists, who no one should take seriously. I am biased because I make 6 figures working on Python code, but it's easy stuff and the community is huge, what's to hate? The only things I hear screeching about are type safety (idc) and performance (you can drop down to C if it's really needed)
>>6261 >Only arguments against it are from legitimate autists, who no one should take seriously. If autists hate it then it must be legitimately bad and that's why only normies and bourgies like it.
>>6252 Any arguments why C and not C++?
>>6263 C++ complexity and irregularity (even compared to LISP) makes compilation to machine code unpredictable One can read C and mentally do a pretty good 1 to 1 mapping of the machine code it will be compiled to
>>6264 inb4 optimizations, those are more predictable with C than with C++ also
>>6261 based; nearly every programming language is adequate for an enormous variety of tasks. mean-spirited arguments for one in favor of another are a waste of energy, especially because ATS is the best.
>>6260 im trying to get some Comptia certifications and get a remote web advisor job.
>>6257 You should make a post with a marxist point of view on how psychologists just help people cope with capitalism and whether or not they realize it. It would be worthy of a new multitude submission potentially!
when i compare myself to code i unit test, that is 2500 line long class with few hundred line methods that modify state of application on every step i dont think i am that bad honestly I just had to mock method that takes 28 arguments
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>>6261 >i don't care about types
>>6261 >Only arguments against it are from legitimate autists sooooo people who know more about programming than you?
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>>6270 you know types don't make your programs any better right?
>>6263 It just works. I like C because it has a very simple mental model. The only people who can truthfully say they "know" C++ are compiler implementers and the standards committee. The average programmer can reasonably know C. I can write C++ like I would write C, but it's all too easy for me to be tempted to play with the shiny toys, and get distracted from my actual goal. >>6272 You know types don't make your programs any worse right? Let's look at the options if we don't have types: >incur runtime costs on silent and possibly incorrect conversion >ok well actually we do have types, but not really My biggest annoyance with python is honestly the lack of a built in linter. I like to draft my programs sloppily, and then fix any syntax and type errors in one go.
coding fucking sucks
>>6274 it really does. like seriously t. i do it for a living
>>6272 >types dont make your programs any better they litterally do though For one, less mistakes, for two, your compiler can actually make assumptions rather than treating everything as a black box that needs to be checked on everything, so it will run faster.
>>6250 Just because something is popular doesnt mean it is good.
>>6234 >Apparently it was deliberately named [Coq] to fuck with Anglos Based mofos. >>6235 Django is an amazing framework. If you're a software dev, you will eventually learn a shit ton of C-like languages, including Python. They are all basically the same. >>6239 How does one type that shit? inb4 buy an APL keyboard, no. >>6242 Damn, that sounds pretty crazy. Does rust get somewhat close to these goals? I need to read about ATS. >>6243 PHP is trash bro. You might like it because of the environment or for whatever reason, but it is objectively a trash language. >>6253 If you like programming, keep doing it on your free time until you get decent at it. It is a good source of employment right now. >>6257 Agree with the other anon. >One must imagine sisyphus on antidepressants. Lol. >>6261 Types are really good tbh. And python is a nice language, with a great ecosystem. Especially for smaller projects. Python has optional types which can be really useful. Intellij + django is just perfect for quick projects. Also, pipenv is the way to go, it's so comfy compared to other tools. >>6263 C and C++ are either used in legacy code or in performance critical environments. The first scenario, doesn't matter if it is a good language or not, you are forced to use it. The second, usually C++ is used for systems programming, C is used for hardware programming. >>6269 >I just had to mock method that takes 28 arguments bruh. your suspicion on how shit your code is should rise exponentially with regards to the number of arguments it takes. A 10 parameter function/method is already screaming "please rewrite me". >>6272 >has never programmed in haskell it's like bowling with side bumpers. if it compiles, you're almost guaranteed you're doing something right. After you get over the ridiculous learning curve, programming in haskell is kinda like assisted programming. I was memeing about Idris2, I haven't actually used it, but from what I see, it takes it to an extreme and literally writes your function's implementation for you based on your function signature (params + return type). It's insane tbh. >>6274 Kinda does, but there are worse jobs tbh.
>>6273 >You know types don't make your programs any worse right? Depending on the domain, worrying about them can really drive up your development time. There is the promise of "type-driven development" and maybe I've just never used the right tooling with the right language but the in my practice the stronger you would like your type constraints to be the more code you have to write. Not that I'm saying type systems are bad. Why not have them? But not caring is a valid perspective if you can get away with not using them, which entire fields of scientists have demonstrated you can. Robust typing will be more important for some applications than for others. I'm not entirely clear on your point on incurring runtime costs; in python if I had a performance-sensitive task I would try to JIT it with Numba. Julia has made native support of this strategy its killer feature and is really catching on. Is there some inadequacy in the type systems of these languages that is leaving performance on the table? I would also argue that most type systems are weak enough that if you demand safety in them you can lose speed unless you do something hacky: see >>6242. Again, not to say type systems are bad; just that there is a problem space where they may be more trouble than they're worth. Btw this is a meme opinion that I'm probably too bad of a programmer to justifiably hold, but I do not understand why no practical languages implement GADTs and linear logic, or set type declarations aside from implementation like in Haskell. If types are going to be so important to your language then you should at least land on a particular corner of the lambda cube and let them have first-class citizenship in your syntax.
>>6279 Types are a hinderance in small projects. Something like Django allows you to build really quickly, whereas with haskell you'd need more time. On the long run, strong types ensure that your program still makes sense and avoids many problems that start to arise in large OOP codebases. Immutability and purity (same inputs guarantee same outputs) ensure that you aren't hiding side effects or accidentally mutating data. The dreaded "null pointer exception" is much harder to encounter in haskell as well, by design. And the type system even allows much more composability and code re-use. The OOP type system of classes, inheritance, "traits", etc are unironically cope of stuff that works much better in haskell-land (ADTs, records, type classes, polymorphic functions, etc). Encapsulation in OOP land can be nice, but it doesn't necessarily lead to more understandable code and is much less flexible. The only "but" is that haskell kinda sucks in some key areas and has several important artificial limitations due to the way the language was developed in these past 20? years. Also the build systems and ecosystem have huge areas of improvement. All of this means that programs are more "correct by construction" than softer typed languages, or god forbid, dynamically typed languages. This is why functional programming techniques and features are more and more being integrated into OOP languages, or functional-like languages are being developed. Shit like: kotlin, scala, ocaml, java 8 lambdas and other features I know nothing about, python's list comprehensions and list processing tools (map, group, etc). Then you have efforts like typescript and flow, trying to make javascript's chaos more typeable so that the compiler can do some of the correctness checking. Point is, types are really good, they are underutilized because of different reasons (I'd suspect capitalist pressures being the primary one), but functional aspects are being constantly integrated into non functional languages all the time. They are lagging several years. Some new languages seek to accelerate this closing gap by supporting "both" paradigms, such as Scala, Ocaml, etc.
>>6011 The chillest interviews I've had are in cybersecurity, I encourage all capable CS people to switch (this doesn't apply to web developers).
>>6281 What is the work like? What do you do day to day? How is the pay?
>>6014 honest question, why is your english so poor?
>>6282 It really depends if you go pentesting, malware analysis, or vulnerability research - im the latter the day to day is just researching and reversing and the pay is good and gets better (especially if you specialize towards 'hard' targets like windows, iphone, android etc)
>>6284 by capable i mean: understand C extremely well understand x86 and ARM good understanding of at least 1 operating system internals (though you can learn a log of this on the job) It's a pretty reasonable bar for any programmer imo
>>6280 Lol surely you should be able to tell from my previous posts that I understand what types are useful for in programming? It seems to me that you do not appreciate the level of "bit hacking" that is done in large scientific projects and that these field actually get along just fine using robust type systems only where necessary-- and it would probably appall you to be confronted with where these (smart, competent) people view typing as necessary. I would also not be too hasty to blame capitalism for the fact that some popular languages have weak type systems, since we see a lot more use of Mathematica, FORTRAN, MATLAB, Python and Julia in the sciences than in industry whereas Typescript was developed by Microsoft.
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This thread depresses me. Graduated last year, 0 internships and mediocre student. I did get multiple in person interviews but I never got a job and it was fucking soul crushing. If you don't have internships it seems you need either to know someone and have nepotism save you or live this shit to get a job. I just wanted to view it as a day job and work on my real passions of music and political organizing outside of work. I just decided to go back to school and see if I can cut it out as a humanities history fag. I always did better in it and I'm probably even more passionate about it. Even if I changed careers this still reminds me of me being a fucking failure.
>>6287 Internships are a scam anyway. Never give your labor-power out for free. Join the clubs and make connections instead.
>>6287 Fellow historian here. Switch your degree to English if you still can. There are no end of jobs for English majors, but historians get stuck being government bureaucrats.
>>6288 internships are the ultimate form of cuckery, imagine working FOR FUCKING FREE for years in addition to a paid job just so a decade later you can say "i hab exberience" and jsut be ghosted by the employer >t.totally not bitter after always being ghosted by porky job offers
>>5991 >got a job as Java developer with no technical interview. Not a programmer, but I always get roasted over an open fire with a technical interview. are you white?
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>>6288 They are a scam but thats what these fuckers in the CS world look for >>6289 CS was my attempt at being pragmatic and not following my real passions. The world is fucked either way, if I love history I might as well go for history.
>>6286 yeah mate, sorry. I got excited. I don't get to speak about programming beyond "react vs vie" shitflinging with anyone. It is my belief that capitalist pressures led to the standardization of JS as the defacto browser scripting language. It is also my belief that OOP is a product of neoliberal ideology. This last point is of course nuanced, and just my opinion. The reason strongly typed languages aren't used in systems programming, in my opinion, has to do with this capitalist pressure of "done > perfect", weaker types allow more flexibility. I don't think OOP leads to good design on large systems. There is something wrong there. OOP patterns are insane and seem to be about getting around language limitations. The benefits that type systems bring are recognized by the industry, but they still fail to see the value of stronger type systems in the longer term. Of course, for each job there is a better tool. If type systems are not needed, a non typed is perfectly fine.
>>6293 > It is my belief that capitalist pressures led to the standardization of JS as the defacto browser scripting language. It is also my belief that OOP is a product of neoliberal ideology. These are objectively true statements, RMS makes the first point, and the second is a no-brainer if you saw how much $$$ went into funding OOP in the 90s (im not the anon you are replying too)
>>6287 I didn't do an internship and still got a job. I got a job at a local software mill. It paid so little I didn't even collect the pay check until the end. In the meantime, I practiced programming puzzles. I eventually got a job at Microsoft after being rejected at least 3 times.
>>6294 >if you saw how much $$$ went into funding OOP in the 90s (im not the anon you are replying too) !!! Seriously had no idea. I've been meaning to write an article on the neoliberal ideology inherent in OOP. I'll have to do some historical digging.
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>>6295 I do not love CS enough to want to sell my fucking soul to software mills like Revature.
>>6297 Understandable. Engineering is really badly paid in my country. Software engineering was my best bet to escape and get paid well. I hated it so much I quit. Now I freelance, but I'm getting a job soon since freelancing also sucks.
>>6293 >yeah mate, sorry. I got excited. I don't get to speak about programming beyond "react vs vie" shitflinging with anyone. lol np I do not mean to be mean. actually I tried to learn some full stack webdev and totally failed on my first try; do you have any advice for learning this? I just got immediately entangled by error messages from postgresql and the mires of documentation in a dozen different techs, I don't know how people start to approach this stuff. >It is my belief that capitalist pressures led to the standardization of JS as the defacto browser scripting language. It is also my belief that OOP is a product of neoliberal ideology. >I don't think OOP leads to good design on large systems. I totally agree; I'd go even further and say that OOP has essentially no legs to stand on as a model of computer programming in general. OOP is to software design as commodity fetishism is to economics. I have a lot of tolerance for shortcomings in programming languages-- they're all basically good and they're all worse than they could be (javascript notwithstanding)-- but OOP is such a deleterious model to have become so central and it is the one design that actively frustrates me day-to-day.
Halfway through CS degree, not really super passionate about it but I do enjoy going to class. Live in Silicon Valley. After reading this thread, honestly, honestly? should i just kill myself?
>>6297 They almost got me. 2 year contract, cannot work for anyone else and you arr not guaranteed projects and you can be sent anywhere in the country little to no notice.
>>6300 Before jumping to that point, make it your goal while in school to land some internships. I graduated without one and it was so much harder to get a job with no experience. That should take priority while in Uni, followed by networking with other CS folks, then your grades. Sad but true.
>>6302 Should I just start wildily applying for them? I transfer to a four year soon from my community college soonish, but I've kinda been languishing in min wage crap during the summers and weekends for the last five years which I'm now realizing is a horrible mistake (though I need the money since I'm poor) While socially awkward, I'm not completely retarded at interviews due to working fast food and what not but I'm scared I don't have the technical skills to hack it at any PAID (this is important) internship
>>6167 If you can do python you can do JAVASCRIPT. Build a React.js app and see how it goes. More opportunities there. You can also leanr to write a Python backend using stuff like Flask and SQLAlchemy. There's a whole world out there that u haven't explored yet. Keep yir chin up and start branching out.
>>6299 >do you have any advice for learning this? I'm not really good at front end, but here's my advice. Do the django tutorial. It's well done, and has relatively little magic compared to other frameworks. Download a package manager if your OS doesn't have one. Homebrew for mac, chocolatey for windows. Figure out how to turn that thing on. Many times it's on by default. Try logging in via the console and making a database and a new user with the same name as the db. Download pipenv. Pipenv is the way to go. It's easy to set up and just works. Do the django tutorial. If you have problems with postgres, try reinstalling it. You might have to get your hands dirty and delete some databases manually. Don't upgrade postgres unless you absolutely have to. After you are done with the django tutorial, read the documentation for start to finish. It is a terrible process. It feels bad, its boring. You don't have to understand everything. This will give you an idea of what you can do and where to find it. Ask a lot of questions, google a shit ton. After that is done, do a small project. Like a todo list app with users.
>>6303 You should start doing easy programming problems. You have to be diligent! This is super important. TO add to this anon's list >>6302 internship > general programming practice (personal projects) > coding problems > making friends with other cs folks (meet them all, be good friends with all) > grades
>>6303 Sure, go to college, but your first priority is building simple projects on your own, since you will always be able to move faster than your teachers. Bootcamps can teach you enough to be a code monkey in 6 months, and if you built your own stuff that increases your chances of landing a real job.
>>6301 Yup. I almost got to one of the companies also like that. Those companies are not worth selling your soul to. You can't even break the contract and quit without paying a fine worth thousands of dollars.
all this bitching about oop as a design concept and trying to blame it on capitalism, why haven't you all figured out that it's not oop that is the problem, it's the fact that it's shoehorned into solving problems it wasn't designed to solve? the fact that such a thing as singleton pattern even exists should be proof enough of that. meanwhile i got a lot of good mileage out of oop in a project where a queue of different types of data objects with each type requiring special handling was processed out of order in a multi process setting and you needed to perform a bunch of tasks pre, during and post processing while preserving atomicity. this is the kind of shit that oop should be used for. what it should absolutely not be used for is inheritance hell in a gui based application for normies like what most of the output using the horrible languages that are java or c#. there is absolutely nothing wrong with oop as a concept, it is just largely misused by retards.
>>6309 Based, "OOP is neoliberalism" is the most retarded take i've seen on this board.
>>6309 >it's not oop that is the problem, it's the fact that it's shoehorned into solving problems it wasn't designed to solve? yeah that's what I said. it has no legs to stand on as a model of computer programming in general. since we agree, I guess all I have to say is... enjoy being mad?
>>6296 >I've been meaning to write an article on the neoliberal ideology inherent in OOP. I'll have to do some historical digging. well, for a fun little exercise here is an article that throws in little comparisons of OOP to marxism kek http://www.softpanorama.org/SE/anti_oo.shtml >To me it looks more like more dangerous development -- a variant of computer science Lysenkoism (and I can attest that the current level of degradation of computer science definitely reminds me the level of degradation of social sciences under Stalin; it's now more about fashion then research with cloud computing as the latest hot fashion. >Unfortunately, OOP and economic communism suffer similar problems. They both get bogged down in their own bureaucracy and have a difficult time dealing with change and outside influences which are not a part of the internal bureaucracy. For example, a process may be stuck in department X because it may be missing a piece of information that the next department, Y, or later departments may not even need. Department X may not know or care that the waiting piece of information is not needed by later departments. It simply has it's rules and regulations and follows them like a good little bureaucratic soldier. inb4 "i love oop now"
>>6312 >gobbunizm is when burokracy!!! No surprise that a self-important stemfaggot is an essentialist shitsock.
>>6311 >it has no legs to stand on as a model of computer programming in general no programming model has legs to stand on as a general programming model, so its a fail argument. every programming model has its good uses and its bad uses, and the proof behind that is the variety of programming paradigms out there that are each designed for a specific use. the problem is failed attempts at practice standardisation that force square pegs through round holes. criticise structurally inefficient capitalist management instead who purposefully forces this square peg into our ass for reasons of damage control because they constantly replace their workforce and wind up with a bunch of teams who have never even seen the design document for whatever pointless behemoth is being designed for office use at that particular moment
>>6314 I am glad you're enjoying being mad anon. Careful not to overindulge.
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I dropped out of community college when I was 23 with only one semester left in IT. I spent 2-3 years being a NEET then I waged in a restaurant for 2. It was actually pretty fun because the boys but covid happened and I realized I was being exploited more than I thought. I'm going on 28 now and I seriously need to go back to school. I did a few labs in Harvard CS150 and I thought it was easy but I understand learning will get much more difficult. I'm about to move in with my dad (to escape my mom) who I haven't lived with since I was 8 (horrible childhood) and I just want to prove I'm not a dumbass, to him and myself. The question is should I continue to learn to code? Are there more prospects in web development or literally anything else? Seems like CS is becoming oversaturated and I'm obviously not going to go to a good school.
>Why yes, I am a STEMfag who will attempt an engineer coup and then promptly get executed on Stalin 2.0's orders, how could you tell?
>>6316 Coding sucks, it's not fun. Would not recommend. I don't know the market but keep in mind there is a lot to "web development" that isn't just "programming". I've been fucking around with Linux since I was like 12 so that stuff is easy for me, but there is a lot of minutiae that you have to learn if you want to be productive/market yourself. There is very little computer science in web development btw, I'd try to join one of the 'prestigious' bootcamps instead.
>>6318 >I'd try to join one of the 'prestigious' bootcamps instead. Let me add, not one that you pay for. Those are a scam. But some of them have agreements where they take a % of your salary for X years. I'd try to find one of those that looks legit. If you're not a girl or not white/asian/indian they'll love you.
>>6033 fuck you my friend works himself half to death coding
>>6316 tfw no thicc housewife bf
>>6304 You don't know situation. You wont be even invited to interview if you don't have min 2 years experience. Frontend is super saturated
>>6318 Programming is like sex, it's only fun when you do it for free.
I heard they were looking for a person to replace me already, so mine and their pain may end sooner than I thought lmao. Guy had conducted 3 job interviews in a day, he rejected all of them tho
>>6167 >i even spend free time doing it Did you spend so much time because you are really bad at the task you were asked to do? If so, this isn't really a point in your favor.
>>6325 yes thats right. I spend entire week writing data table , it was in jsf though. I did finished it in weekend. I know its bad, but i was doing it for the first time, i never did java cruds in school, i was focusing on writing python scripts and amateur artificial intelligence research. I learned bit about java ee before beginning job but i skipped jsf, its horrible unintuitive and i hoped i will avoid it. Even with primefaces documentation is pretty bad. Anyway i think i cannot unscrew it. Its probably not even ffault of manager, he is programmer too and is basically slave to business people. It means he needs to report to business people all tasks he and other people do on product business people use, and bp can say "this task can be easile made in 4 hours instead of 8 hours". In such circumstances he cannot allow tasks to be made in a week. Anyway i think about contacting him, and ask if he is not satisfied with my work, and is it because i am too slow. What do you guys think, should icontact him and ask him that? Even today i was refactoring and adding final fixes to jsf task, and i heard someone laughing behind my backs how i could spend 2 hours on that, and how suprised he was i am 3 year student. I feel horrible, like my world is crumbling apart. I was not aware i am that horrible of a programmer, and i was building my identity around this skill for a few years. So it will be really difficult to me to cope with fact this occupation may not be for me
>>5991 Good. Software engineers are bourgeois parasites that will all hang when revolution comes.
>>6327 how do i become "true" worker prole? I feel i am underqualified even for typical prole work like construction or i dont know plumbing, electrincs
Don't go to college, if you do you're a class traitor and will be shot
>>6329 burger detected
>>5991 honestly you sound like you got grifted by a "become a programmer in two month" program. The java guys were right to throw you out cause youre useless to them, sound like they were hiring software engineers and got a code monkey, the language thing is a big giveaway you never got a good formal education on sofware engineering. Go freelance and make wordpresses /e commerce/basic web shit that require almost no tech skill, you can make tons of buck ez by exploiting the total clulessness of average ppl for anything IT alternatively, learn java, spring and shit for real, and get a good job, but it seem to me you arent made for this. If you have ok freelance skill you will get much better result by doing shitty wordpresses.
>>6330 it's not wrong though, uni is where you go to be integrated into the system and placed upwards in the hierarchy, you become a manager, a labor aristocrat, a class traitor
>>6332 burger detected
>>6333 euro social fascist detected
>>6192 you're obviously not into software. Langage are tools, it's like being a carpenter saying they're focused on the hammer. If I have to hire a guy to nail in thousands of planks thats fine, if I need to build a house I fire him. Also, learning the basics of a langage is really not that big of a deal, and the advanced quirks are often baked in standard practice or irrelevant for most use. Sure you get benefits knowing your langage well, but its really not that important.
>>6329 hope you're trolling retard
>>6335 how you can even learn software engineering on your own, you wont even get any merge conflict if you just work on your own projects. Anyway i dont mean language but environment. Knowing python and django and some templating language is still different thatn knowing java and application server tech, jsf, hibernate etc. Lot of things in SE are independent of technology, but knowing specific technology is obviously important for delivering things quickly.
if you think otherwise you never had to work with jsf
>>6334 burger detected
>>6285 How do you find a job in it. I'm in France and it seems like cybersecurity careers are dead. Only Java and webshit
>>6312 >a variant of computer science Lysenkoism incredible line. Thanks for the tip. >>6314 >the variety of programming paradigms out there that are each designed for a specific use Lol. I bet you don't do software engineering as a job. I wish this were true, it is simply not the case. A good tool being used for the right job is the exception in the industry. A non-OOP language being used AT ALL is the exception, regardless of whether it is right or not. >>6316 Keep at it. It is one of the few well paid professions you can teach yourself and get paid to do it. >>6326 Bro, you'll get the hang of it. I promise. Keep practicing, consider working extra hours. It sucks, but it'll get you up to speed so you aren't in the situation you are in. > how suprised he was i am 3 year student Come the fuck on. I'm a good software developer. Not a "great" one, simply, I am sure I can get into any company if I try. I didn't know how to code until after working on my first internship. I didn't learn ANYTHING in my CS classes. You're fine mate, you're going to make it. TRUST ME. >>6328 The other poster is a fucking retard. There is nothing glorious about being an badly paid prole. >>6335 Idiotic advice. If you're starting out, stick with one language and tool-set.
NOTICE Bumping this thread to announce that it will be moved to >>>/tech/ Remember to do your comradely part! Browse the overboard. Browse the other boards. Make threads in the other boards. Respond to anons.
>>6135 Even my shitty university were any brainlet can enter (although many of them don't graduate) has number theory , linear algebra and calculus , for cs , and the programing languages are java and c " with classes" later on it's weird . Btw i live in Portugal so your situation could be different there we have some minimum standards , as every cs course needs to be equivalent to those in other unis which probably raises the quality
>>6340 it's pretty huge in the US, i think france would probably have a few odd boutique things (cybersecurity and state departments go hand in hand). you could look into security engineering which is basically an overpaid software engineer who code audits - usually you just need to get 1-2 bs certs and prove you can read C code.
>>5991 labor aristocrats are basically the modern day bourgeoisie so they will definitely swing from lamp posts when the revolution starts.
>>6342 Based mods, I hope more threads are moved to the side boards.
>>6343 We had those too, but at low level, for example we had "calculus" where we never got above derivatives. Then I had numerical method when I learned how to calculate integrals numerically - we had to write program to calculate area under a curve, but values of function was undefined on some interval so you got weird results trying to calculate it, that was pretty cool
>>5991 sadly in capitalist society you need to have money in order to make money and whatever money you make will be gobbled up either by your landlord or a large corporation.
i did not get fired yet, i think they gonna fire me this tuesday, or first may
>>7108 Good luck

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