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File: 1687518041007.jpg (97.19 KB, 1024x1024, 1687517105368.jpg)

 No.4041

16. There are still harmless self-observers who believe that there are "immediate certainties"; for instance, "I think," or as the superstition of Schopenhauer puts it, "I will"; as though cognition here got hold of its object purely and simply as "the thing in itself," without any falsification taking place either on the part of the subject or the object. I would repeat it, however, a hundred times, that "immediate certainty," as well as "absolute knowledge" and the "thing in itself," involve a CONTRADICTIO IN ADJECTO; we really ought to free ourselves from the misleading significance of words! The people on their part may think that cognition is knowing all about things, but the philosopher must say to himself: "When I analyze the process that is expressed in the sentence, 'I think,' I find a whole series of daring assertions, the argumentative proof of which would be difficult, perhaps impossible: for instance, that it is I who think, that there must necessarily be something that thinks, that thinking is an activity and operation on the part of a being who is thought of as a cause, that there is an 'ego,' and finally, that it is already determined what is to be designated by thinking—that I KNOW what thinking is. For if I had not already decided within myself what it is, by what standard could I determine whether that which is just happening is not perhaps 'willing' or 'feeling'? In short, the assertion 'I think,' assumes that I COMPARE my state at the present moment with other states of myself which I know, in order to determine what it is; on account of this retrospective connection with further 'knowledge,' it has, at any rate, no immediate certainty for me."—In place of the "immediate certainty" in which the people may believe in the special case, the philosopher thus finds a series of metaphysical questions presented to him, veritable conscience questions of the intellect, to wit: "Whence did I get the notion of 'thinking'? Why do I believe in cause and effect? What gives me the right to speak of an 'ego,' and even of an 'ego' as cause, and finally of an 'ego' as cause of thought?" He who ventures to answer these metaphysical questions at once by an appeal to a sort of INTUITIVE perception, like the person who says, "I think, and know that this, at least, is true, actual, and certain"—will encounter a smile and two notes of interrogation in a philosopher nowadays. "Sir," the philosopher will perhaps give him to understand, "it is improbable that you are not mistaken, but why should it be the truth?"

— Nietzsche,Beyond Good and Evil

Nietzsche, in a very complex text, tries to negate the "I think therefore I am" , yet it becomes appreciable that the concepts of "existence" "truth" … are empty, ornate abstractions—because I don't think the word of "to exist" has any objective meaning anywhere. So, how pointless it looks to say "I exist." Instead of acknowledging the absurdè moment we are in.

So, anons, do u know any arguments against Nietzschean Nihilism , cuz at this stage , nearly all philosophy looks like they have dogmatic foundations. I just wanna die, since my current state of body feels broken and aches, how can I live in an illusionary form where there are landlords!?! It's way too cruel!

 No.4042

Nuuu marisu don't be sad :(((((((((((

 No.4043

>>4041
So… uh… what was ur problem actually ?

 No.4044

>>4042
TwT

>>4043
Ummm…. It's about what u anons thing about that

 No.4045

File: 1687522047440.png (44.6 KB, 711x454, ClipboardImage.png)

>>4041
>So, anons, do u know any arguments against Nietzschean Nihilism
Materialism and nihilism existed long bfr Nietzche anon. If you want arguments against it there are none. But there are two ways to face the fact of nihilism. Either whine and cry about it for rest of you life. Or enjoy life to fullest by doing what you like knowing the fact that nothing matters and all are gonna be dead, including ur haters in 75 years on average

Some words of advice from materialist Charvakas of ancient India

 No.4046

Shut the fuck up nerd.

 No.4047

>>4041
read Stirner

 No.4048

File: 1687536468336.jpg (149.76 KB, 720x691, aqua head empty.jpg)

What if it is just an illusion, would that change anything?

 No.4049

File: 1687537079053.jpg (39.27 KB, 540x540, zDJAWzS.jpg)

>>4041
Just go birdwatching.

 No.4050

wow what is this cool place, i love the drab colors

 No.4051

Ogei. Now prove it.

 No.4084

>>4041
There are two things that exist: me and the world. That experience is subjective but it is pretty much the only thing I can be certain of. If my thoughts were manufactured then I wouldn't know which anyway, and since my thoughts are manufactured that already implies that such a thing as an "I" exists. The thing is, there can be no "I" without there being consciousness, otherwise the concept is pretty much meaningless. Also, I cannot experience your consciousness so your existence is meaningless to me. And even if I could, it would be once again my consciousness, even as a hivemind I am one.

 No.4106

>>4084
Not sure bout' that, maybe your "realization of yourself's existence is the same thing that an illusionary bug justifies itself"

Also- Nietzsche says
"17. With regard to the superstitions of logicians, I shall never tire of emphasizing a small, terse fact, which is unwillingly recognized by these credulous minds—namely, that a thought comes when "it" wishes, and not when "I" wish; so that it is a PERVERSION of the facts of the case to say that the subject "I" is the condition of the predicate "think." ONE thinks; but that this "one" is precisely the famous old "ego," is, to put it mildly, only a supposition, an assertion, and assuredly not an "immediate certainty." After all, one has even gone too far with this "one thinks"—even the "one" contains an INTERPRETATION of the process, and does not belong to the process itself. One infers here according to the usual grammatical formula—"To think is an activity; every activity requires an agency that is active; consequently"… It was pretty much on the same lines that the older atomism sought, besides the operating "power," the material particle wherein it resides and out of which it operates—the atom. More rigorous minds, however, learnt at last to get along without this "earth-residuum," and perhaps some day we shall accustom ourselves, even from the logician's point of view, to get along without the little "one" (to which the worthy old "ego" has refined itself)."
About this

 No.4109

>>4106
>Not sure bout' that, maybe your "realization of yourself's existence is the same thing that an illusionary bug justifies itself"
I don't need to justify myself, YOU have to justify yourself. I am literally a god of this world, you are nothing but a bunch of letters to me.

 No.4110

>>4109
if you're a god then why cant you make the world not shit?

the only god of this world are the billionares; any 'one ego' arguement always falls apart in my mind because if it where the case, why are you poor?

 No.4111

>>4109 (cont.)
By assuming that I have to justify my existence to you you automatically presuppose that you exist. Which may not even be the case. Maybe you're a bot. Maybe that all is just a dream.

I don't need justifications. The justifications serve someone else. I care about achieving my own interests, which implies ME having reasons to believe in something, not you. Whether you believe in something or not is entirely irrelevant to me. After all, reasons to believe are only needed to achieve certain things, whether that's knowledge or something else, it's never seperate from my subjective experience.

 No.4112

>>4110
>if you're a god then why cant you make the world not shit?
Yeah, you didn't understand anything.

Go read Stirner.

 No.4113

>>4112
I understood it perfectly well, you asserted you are the only concious being; my question is if that where the case, surely you wouldnt write such a shite reality for all of us NPCs to inhabit?

Its almost like there are other concious entities out there who built structures that we inhabit that we have no control over

 No.4114

>>4106
Nobody cares about the ego and the cogito, dude.

If you actually want to know what a "self" is then you should read Stirner or Kierkegaard or Heidegger. The self has nothing to do with the ego, the ego is not the self. The self is beyond thought, it is non-self: it exists, yet it does not. You can call it Brahman, Shunyata, the Unique, the Dao, the Dasein, whatever it is. Whether me and the Universe are one or I am something seperate or I am simply the center of the brain's activity is entirely fucking irrelevant.

 No.4116

>>4113
>I understood it perfectly well, you asserted you are the only concious being; my question is if that where the case, surely you wouldnt write such a shite reality for all of us NPCs to inhabit?
>write
And then you complain that the ego is illusory.

1. I'm not a metaphysical god, I'm simply the center of all experience (because what I call "reality" is just my memory, pattern recognition and sensory sensations).
2. Even if I was a metaphysical god, I would already be one with the Universe, I wouldn't exist to serve your interests. Think of Brahman in Advaita Vedanta instead of Yahweh.

 No.4117

>>4116 (cont.)
Technically, the reality itself is the construction of the mind. Heard of the "ego death?" Schizophrenia? Fun things.

 No.4118

>>4116
>1. I'm not a metaphysical god, I'm simply the center of all experience (because what I call "reality" is just my memory, pattern recognition and sensory sensations).

no, you are the center of YOUR expeirence, not all.

>2. Even if I was a metaphysical god, I would already be one with the Universe, I wouldn't exist to serve your interests. Think of Brahman in Advaita Vedanta instead of Yahweh., Technically, the reality itself is the construction of the mind. Heard of the "ego death?" Schizophrenia? Fun things.



I am a paranoid schizophrenic and I have done many psychadelics, yes I am expeirenced with all of these things; I know better than to assert they align with reality though, rather than just it being a result of my fucked brain chemistry and/or me battering my brain with powerfull psych-active chemicals; any assertion to meaning behind these expeirences is pointless at best and retarded at worst.

 No.4119

>>4116

(me) cont.

I do think its likely we are all one concious entity though; I just chalk it up to infinity, I think reality is a ever recreating expeirence and that it never ends; which means on a long enough timeline I will expeirence every other concious entities life in some manner, because thats what infinity is.

 No.4120

>>4118
>no, you are the center of YOUR expeirence
And? You're just restating the obvious.
>not all
Since I only actually experience this world from my perspective, whether any other person experiences this world from their perspective is entirely irrelevant, it wouldn't be my world. Again, such thing as "the world" is just images in my mind, I can't even be sure if it's not a by-product of it, let alone that others have consciousness. Not like it matters, it functions the same.

I die, this world ends. The end. And I don't care that you're still alive. What would it even mean to me? Nothing. You existing and you non-existing are functionally literally the same. I don't care whether you have consciousness either. What difference does it make? I am not you anyway, I can't feel your pain.

>I know better than to assert they align with reality though

Did I assert any reality? The thing is, I asserted none. None other than my "reality," which is just a stream of consciousness which cause is unknowable by the nature of subjective existence. The physicalist conception of reality is simply the consensus reality, and I'm not denying its possibility. Just saying that it's not fundamental for my existence, I exist regardless of whether we live in Marx's dialectical multiverse or in Tolkien's Middle Earth.

Metaphysical speculations are worthless by themselves. I myself recognize that physicalism is just a speculation and accept science as a tool, but I would never say that science reflects some absolute reality, that's some Christian bullshit. Neither do scientists say that.

What if you were born with seeing red as green and green as red? Is your reality suddenly "wrong?" You still differentiate between colors, it doesn't matter whatsoever.

 No.4121

>>4120
>Since I only actually experience this world from my perspective, whether any other person experiences this world from their perspective is entirely irrelevant, it wouldn't be my world. Again, such thing as "the world" is just images in my mind, I can't even be sure if it's not a by-product of it, let alone that others have consciousness. Not like it matters, it functions the same.


Yes, then on a long enough timeline the entire universe collapses an infinite amount of times and somewhere in that timeline 'you' awaken again; you wont remember it, but viewing death as the end is pseud shit.

Its all speculation at the end of the day, im not claiming to be an authority on this; its just my POV.

Im also not religious, this is a materialist outlook.

 No.4122

>>4120
>What if you were born with seeing red as green and green as red? Is your reality suddenly "wrong?" You still differentiate between colors, it doesn't matter whatsoever.

also I hate this arguement, we can collectivelly agree what colours are; if I pointed to red and went 'does this look red to you' we might see different shades of it, but with exceptions given to colour blindness, we can still agree that as a species we percieve this colour pretty much universally the same.

It doesnt make the colour objectively the colour, but good enough is good enough.

 No.4123

>>4122
my assertions behind being confident that a 'you' can awaken more than once are as follows;

1. reality has a material explanation
2. you are a construction of reproducable outcomes; for example if you imagine you where to start your life again and everything that happened to you happened the same way, and you didnt retain knowledge of past events; you would inevitably end up in the same place as you are now; this is true for everyone and everything.
3. infinity is real, reality doesnt end when the universe/reality dies from heat death, the same conditions that created this reality seemingly from nothing will reproduce.

 No.4124

>>4121
>this is a materialist outlook
Just because you call it a materialist outlook doesn't make it a materialist outlook. It still implies that your "soul" gets reborn which no actual scientist claims unless they already have some religious bias.
>but viewing death as the end is pseud shit
Again, entirely fucking irrelevant.

If I don't experience something, it might as well not exist at all. You might as well be just a but (that might actually be true judging by the amounts of strawmanning you did).
>also I hate this arguement, we can collectivelly agree what colours are; if I pointed to red and went 'does this look red to you' we might see different shades of it, but with exceptions given to colour blindness, we can still agree that as a species we percieve this colour pretty much universally the same
Again, just like a religious fundamentalist, you assume that science is true a priori because… "Because it just is, bro, okay?"

Second, you seem to not understand such basic things as a thought experiment. You know, in a thought experiment you're supposed to imagine a situation, not posit its truth. Which explains why you have so much trouble understanding me, you are entirely incapable of experimentation. If I recited you the "philosophical zombie" thought experiment you'll just get confused and leave.

 No.4125

>>4124
> It still implies that your "soul" gets reborn which no actual scientist claims unless they already have some religious bias.

Yes, I believe this in some manner because it seems to be the most rational, to me explantion of the repeating contraction/expansion of reality thru physics

>If I don't experience something, it might as well not exist at all


news just in; incell never expeirences sex, sex deemed to not exist

dumb arguement, plenty of things we cant expeirence we can still assert as being real through the magic of 'observation'

>Again, just like a religious fundamentalist, you assume that science is true a priori because… "Because it just is, bro, okay?"


I am not asserting it is real, I dont believe in objectivity; it is however the best model we have, if you have a better one let me know.

 No.4126

>>4124
>philosophical zombie

NPC arguement that puts the induvidual above others, pseud shit that is just another way of expressing fascist tendancies, miss me with that shit; we're all in this togther.

 No.4142

this whole retard discussion could be ended by reading stirner. seems even post-leftist pseuds are incapable of reading

 No.4143

>>4142
This thread was moved here from /siberia/ and is populated by /siberia/ posters.

 No.4147

>>4142
I guess Unique and It's Property account around 400-500 pages - it's surely does not that easy, also if you have ended reading him, maybe you should write a counter-argument, yeaa!

 No.4150

>>4125
>it is however the best model we have, if you have a better one let me know
The best model is physicalism, materialism has long been rejected ever since we moved to quantum physics. However, it does not negate epistemological solipsism at all. That's the thing, it's just a model.

Never claimed I reject any model because it's inferior but it's a folly to start thinking about the world from metaphysics instead of your own direct experience. Sensory experience is primary to reason, reason tries to explain that sensory experience a posteriori. Pragmatism over speculation, egoism over universality, prediction over certainty.

Mentioning that, I like the physicalist model and I more or less trust it in making predictions, although some Stirnerites are pagans. Haven't tried this stuff myself. Either I don't know something or they're on drugs 24/7.

 No.4151

>>4142
This entire place is just passive nihilists complaining about their life, I don't think it has any connection to Stirner anymore.

 No.4152

>>4150
>they're on drugs 24/7.

You should try that too, its great.

>Stirnerites are pagan


this just shows the weakness of there models, paganism is such a pathetic spook its unreal; having interacted with many pagans IRL they are mostly just LARPers looking to get high at best or crypto-fashoids at worst

 No.4153

>>4152
>paganism is such a pathetic spook its unreal
What about animism? Advaita Vedanta?

 No.4154

>>4152
>You should try that too, its great.
I'm worried about the health problems and such. Like, I heard smoking weed can damage your lungs and stuff.

 No.4155

>>4151 (cont.)
You know, maybe the problem is in the name. This board is called /dead/. Too edgy, it attracts all kinds of dead-insides.

 No.4156

>>4153
>What about animism? Advaita Vedanta?

Never met anyone who takes it seriously, cant comment.

>I'm worried about the health problems and such. Like, I heard smoking weed can damage your lungs and stuff.


Yeah, you should avoid habitually smoking anything; too many downsides.

I vape weed through a dry herb vape + eat it, much safer.

 No.4159

>>4156
>I vape weed through a dry herb vape + eat it, much safer
I've found an article recently that said that nicotine patches, e-cigarettes and vapes are safer. How safer is this compared to weed and alcohol? Don't want to buy poisonous marijuana from the black market.

 No.4161

File: 1687961800355.png (113.11 KB, 474x429, ClipboardImage.png)

>>4159
>How safer is this compared to weed and alcohol? Don't want to buy poisonous marijuana from the black market.

Weed is far safer than either nicotine or alcohol, the darknet provides peer-reviewed weed delivered to you via the post.

 No.4163

>>4161
>delivered to you via the post.
Man, this shit glows, how is it supposed to get delivered to me without me getting busted?

 No.4164


 No.4165

>>4164
Why do you give me Tor's homepage? I was asking about the postal service.

 No.4166

>>4165
just look up a guide on how to buy drugs online, im not going to feed it too you; getting drugs via the post is safe, they vaccuum seal the packages and put decoys so it

1) doesnt smell
2) doesnt feel like drugs
3) when opened looks like something else

domestic mail doesnt get searched unless someone rats you out.

 No.4167

File: 1687962397076.png (910.4 KB, 615x770, ClipboardImage.png)

>>4166
I mean how do you think this guy got away for so long, think about how much mail goes through the system on a single day, they dont care about your $50 worth of weed

 No.4168

>>4167
>I mean how do you think this guy got away for so long
Well, he didn't send mailboxes to his house now did he?

 No.4169

>>4168
do you think the feds tear open every single piece of mail or something, how do you think they operate when it comes to mail?

The literal only way they will ever catch you is if you draw attention to yourself, ordering smelless drugs in the mail with no visible profile or way to clock them from the outside, with personal amounts that would give you a small petty fine is not worth there time.

 No.4372

>how can I live in an illusionary form where there are landlords!?! It's way too cruel!
Would you feel better if the landlord instition was permanent? The instability of existence is indeed a nightmare to the established order as they try to replicate their mode of being infinately. They curse the outside realms, the clashing of forces, becuase it beats upon their stable forms that they cling to until they are eventually washed away. The human subject must learn to change or else they torn apart.


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