Antinatalism position in the left. Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 20:33:41 No. 14251 [Last 50 Posts]
Serious discussion.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 20:38:45 No. 14252
For me, this question comes down to a personal ethical judgement. I would never condemn someone for choosing to have a child, but I don't think I myself would be able to live with the guilt of bringing a life into a world as full of suffering as this on currently is. If we lived in a different world, I'm sure my calculus would be different, but the way the situation is now, I can't personally do it. Lately I've been considering the idea of adoption (very ethically fraught in its own ways) as a way to try and do well by the next generation without being personally responsible for their entry into the world.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 20:49:19 No. 14253
Nobody can consent to being brought into existence. This is ontologically impossible. Given the suffering that existence entails, you cannot justify forcing someone to exist.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 20:57:10 No. 14254
>>14251 antinatalism proposes that we aren't one of earth's creatures and that we'll never live in harmony with the planet
it's cringe and not worth pursuing
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 21:00:13 No. 14255
If the goal is to preserve genetic lines and its carriers the number 1 threat to those is human activity, see 6th mass extinction for reference, so the logical conclusion is to reduce said activity and cull the population.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 21:02:11 No. 14256
>>14255 that's not anti-natalism
"don't make more people" is not the same as "kill people"
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 21:14:38 No. 14257
>>14254 See the issue is that your worldview is comically impossible. there is no harmony under ruthless darwinian life conditions. take off your tinted rose glasses.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 21:29:42 No. 14258
I mean its not like anti-natalists campaign to ban repreduction or anything, so I dont see why any issue should arise from accepting them into leftist discourse.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 21:36:10 No. 14259
>however, I think that anti-natal ethics have a huge potential to reduce a lot of suffering as antinatalist philosophy often asks deeper questions about life, meanwhile most of the leftist discourse is focused on social identity and capitalism.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 21:42:42 No. 14260
>>14251 I'm indifferent to the natalist question.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 21:49:42 No. 14262
>>14259 antinatalism isn't necessarily anti-life doofus. the human condition is not something to be celebrated.
might as well condemn transhumanists for wanting to escape their flesh suits.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 22:03:16 No. 14263
>>14260 Well you shouldn't be. if you care about things like capitalism but not natalism then you're not seeing the bigger picture.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 22:24:57 No. 14266
>>14265 Anarcho-syndicalists aren't nihilists. We advocate birth control and birth strike for strategic, anti-capitalist reasons.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 22:30:58 No. 14268
>>14264 >>14266 nothing to do with antinatalist philosophy nor policy. it's not just about capitalism.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 22:43:52 No. 14269
>>1329034
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 22:59:26 No. 14270
>>1329066
S 2023-01-10 (Tue) 23:08:51 No. 14271
>>14251 The natalism discussion is stupid. I don't think anyone should mandate whever others have children or not since that changes your life as much as going to prison for 20 years might. I certainly refuse to have children. Anyway OP, you are stupid, sorry there's no better way to say it. How is natalism possibly more important than overthrowing capitalism? I think the only way you could believe that is if you think life is fundementally awful for the majority of people (I don't think it is), but what if that's only the case under capitalism? What's the point in focusing on reducing birth rates rather than improving conditions for everyone. Makes no sense to me unless you're deeply cynical about the world. And don't try to make other people have children or not since that is an arsehole idea. At least anti-natalism will never be put into practice, unlike policies to increase birth rates which are likely to be proposed and are the real danger.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 23:10:00 No. 14272
>and when politically active they tend to be leftist socialists (Think Thomas Ligotti, David Benatar, Philipp Mainländer… etc) >it's not that antinatalists don't think of those things as big problems that need to be overcome, on the contrary, antinatalists tend to be hardcore socialist leftists but they also recognize deeper issues that (I would argue) are even more pressing than the overcoming of capitalism.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 23:13:28 No. 14273
>>14272 *Obsessive natalists
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 23:19:49 No. 14274
I disagree with the premise that suffering is inherently bad in all contexts, the right amount of melancholy and heartbreak makes a person whole, more well rounded.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 23:20:33 No. 14275
>>14271 True, like Benatar I have no illusions about an antinatalist endgame. but ill still talk about it whenever I can. and it's only stupid because the world is filled with idiots like you, unfortunately.
thats because antinatalists (not the lefty man children at r/antinatalism) are usually empathic and self aware nihilists that mind their own business.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 23:36:07 No. 14276
I'm pretty sure Mainländer was a socialist.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 23:46:17 No. 14278
>>14269 >humanity will go extinct one way or another Yes, "another" meaning evolving into something else after a few millions of years or as a result of genetics mastery, which is the desirable path.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 23:47:17 No. 14279
>>14272 >or you universally enact policy to prevent humans altogether from propagating. Giving birth shouldn't (creating a conscious life) be a right. ever. for no one.
Anonymous 2023-01-10 (Tue) 23:51:28 No. 14280
>>14278 eugenics? on my /leftypol/?
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 01:55:42 No. 14281
>>14251 I kinda like that art tbh. Also, who cares about antinatalists? Pretty irrelevant subculture that is talked about too much online in proportion to its actual influence.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 02:02:38 No. 14282
>>14251 pic in OP is retarded. Wanting to reduce population overall is not the same as personally wanting to reduce your own procreation. Soft Antinatalism is really just neoliberal eugenics
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 02:05:02 No. 14283
>>14251 people don't have 'lineages' they're a social construct. There is only one lineage of the human race. If you procreate for the sake of 'muh genes' ur a retard.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 02:08:06 No. 14284
People who procreate are useful idiots for human race
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 03:43:03 No. 14286
>>14285 Well even if they were superior I still don't understand how that supports your argument.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 03:45:34 No. 14287
>>14283 Based and true. I hate even getting into this debate, but even people who believe in the race realist question or whatever, how could one pure-blooded Black person have a higher autism score than a White person if it was some kind of special genetic facto? Feels shit to be the shit end of the paradigm or whatever but White people got nothing else than being like "WELL we are statistically inferior to Asians and Jew BUT we are superior to Africans! That's all that counts."
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 03:51:51 No. 14288
Natalism remains fundamentally equivalent to slavery because not one fucker on this planet would have a child if they didn't think they'd get more out of them than they put in.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 03:51:51 No. 14289
>>14287 How shit is that too for White people? You invent the metrics and paradigms and you still lose.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 03:52:31 No. 14290
>>14288 Sorry you had a shit family life anon.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 03:55:51 No. 14291
>>14253 Non consent is ontologically impossible for the same reason consent is. New people are brought in to inherit tasks and projects and property and to take care of the dying.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 03:58:05 No. 14292
>>14288 We inherit the victories of past generations.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:00:13 No. 14293
>>14283 We share genetic lineage with other life forms as well
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:00:37 No. 14294
>>14290 I am absolutely certain that you want more workers solely for their own sake, and dont expect to get labor out of them that they're not allowed to opt out of.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:03:12 No. 14295
>>14254 Capitalism and the general Anglo colonizer mindset is not conducive to living in harmony with the planet and never will be. I don't mind if gloids see the destruction of the world through climate change and decide not to have kids.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:03:12 No. 14296
>>14292 Pffff. Empty platitude.
It's utterly irrelevant to the calculus at hand. It's openly discussed that people only want more kids because they want the labor out of them, some groups want to inflict less children because they want the other groups to have less labor power. It is blatantly fucking obvious.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:05:00 No. 14297
Soft antinatalism is lifestyles. Hard antinatalism is the controlled demolition of humanity's future
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:09:11 No. 14299
>>14296 My parents labored very hard for me and got comparatively less labor out of me. They also taught me a lot of things, fed me, and clothed me. The human species will continue to grow and learn. I have a kid. 😎
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:14:20 No. 14301
>>14290 >>14294 You both should make fewer assumptions and ask more questions
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:26:05 No. 14304
>>14296 >It's openly discussed that people only want more kids because they want the labor out of them, Not everyone is this calculating. My mom had me because she didn't get an abortion in time. My wife always wanted a kid but we waited 10 years and saved up enough resources to give her a decent upbringing. We aren't rich but we have friends an family who form a mutual support network.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:27:14 No. 14305
>>14304 Yes, Anon, I am talking about things on a totally personal, individual level, single instances of kids being freeloaders destroys social analysis.
Neo feudalism 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:30:41 No. 14307
>>14253 >you can’t consent to being brought to life What a hyper liberal input on childbirth lol
>noooooo I didn’t consent!!! I’m projecting the liberal obsession of violating consent on the matter of life itself If you hate living so much go jump in the middle of the ocean, see if you really hate that you were brought Into the world without your consent then.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:32:02 No. 14308
>>14302 >>14303 Instead of saying "sorry you had a shit family", ask, "how was your family?"
Instead of saying " I am absolutely certain that you want more workers solely for their own sake," instead ask "do you want children? If so, why?"
😜
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:32:07 No. 14309
>>14306 Society exists by bringing people into the world without their consent, indebts them to it when they are unable to give input on it, then entraps them and demands they produce more than they themselves use.
Even Lenin agrees with this doctrine.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:33:45 No. 14311
>>14309 >Even Lenin agrees with this doctrine. Good for him I guess? I guess I don't live my life for some guy who died a hundred years ago?
Sorry your life sucks anon.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:34:29 No. 14312
>>14251 Thomas Ligotti's cosmic horrors are worth a read even if you are not a fan of antinatalism. Its dope. Also I love quotes of these antinatalist/efilist philosophers :
getting chills rn not gonna lie
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:34:51 No. 14313
>>14311 Cool, so it's still a system of forced labor.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:35:50 No. 14314
>>14313 I don't do any labor. Maybe you could get your head above water if you didn't buy into bullshit, but you do you.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:36:17 No. 14315
>>14305 >Yes, Anon, I am talking about things on a totally personal, individual level You were though. You didn't level your assumption at people in general, but against the anon you were talking to? What purpose can a discussion serve if you aren't interested on what others think? See how I have asked you three questions in this response alone? 🤔
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:37:27 No. 14317
>>14316 Sucks to suck. You got the virtue points anon. Very materialist.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:37:43 No. 14318
>>14305 >A child is either a slave or a freeloader This is a reductive false dichotomy.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:39:49 No. 14319
>>14318 Just like how trying to divvy up people based on how they get their income is a reductive false analysis.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:46:43 No. 14322
>>14310 20 friends, family and acquaintances came together to give my wife and I gifts when they learned we were having a child. Many of them were better off than us, expected nothing in return, and had no incentive other than the good feeling one gets from acting out a culturally inculcated sense of empathy. Parents and children can and often do have exploitative relationships but they can also have mutually beneficial relationships. It is true that no one consents to being born, but most of us are up to the challenges and live not just for ourselves, but for others. Nothing is forever and everything is in flux. I am not a liberal.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 04:58:29 No. 14324
Antinatalism is stupidity because it will lead to the extinction of people who are sensitive enough to recognize the problems of our world and transformed our species into a retard breeder one
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 05:13:52 No. 14326
Antinatalism is just eugenicist. From everything I have seen, antinatalists insist that those who want children are primitive, incapable of higher thinking, and acting on simple instinct. It is is more or less the stance of the British Empire on the peoples they've ruled over. It's founded on the belief that populations must be managed and that left to their own devices, people will act "incorrectly." It is the same assumptions that prop up the "tragedy of the commons" argument. Colonial rule and enclosure of the commons share a common ancestor with antinatalism.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 05:13:56 No. 14327
>>14325 Yes comrade, only through compulsory sterilization of the human species will the proletariat overcome the bourgeoisie. Life, evolution, and reproduction will definitely not continue after humanity commits suicide
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 05:23:41 No. 14329
Why does "The Left" have to have a position on this at all? Have kids or don't, who cares.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 05:24:10 No. 14330
>>14327 "Problems" exist only when life exists. People who have more kids "to solve world problems" are not seeing the irony. We create the problems and then run around trying to solve it. The whole reproduction thing is a pyramid scheme
True this can be a problem for an efilist. Not for antinatalist though since they talk only about human life. I think we need to discover some technology to wipe out life in one strike. Then just like in other planets everything will be at peace
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 05:24:56 No. 14331
>>14329 Yeah thats a fair point
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 05:26:14 No. 14332
Anti-natalists only wiping out themselves. Good luck you bitter fucks.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 05:44:23 No. 14333
>>14330 >Reproduction is a pyramid scheme Highly spooked thinking. Reproduction is a byproduct of biology which is a byproduct of the laws of physics. Life emerged in simple form before it was ever capable of regret or sadness. There is no malevolent deity that created this pyramid scheme. Nor would there be any benefit from doing such a thing. If antinatalists successfully directed a controller demolition of the human species, it would not fix the problem, since complex intelligent life could continue to emerge on Earth or elsewhere. The antinatalist is simply projecting their unfulfilled desire to commit suicide onto the entire species
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 05:48:22 No. 14334
>>14333 Good thing the world will continue to be here despite of a few neutered westoids.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 05:49:30 No. 14335
>>14330 >"Problems" exist only when life exists. Same thing with solutions. Maybe existence is just nonexistence doing a really complicated cost benefit analysis that takes an infinite amount of time to calculate in order to decide whether or not to continue not existing lmfao
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 05:53:15 No. 14336
>>14335 Maybe existence just doesn't want you to exist.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 06:03:20 No. 14338
>>14337 I dunno, I could go get multiple women to carry my seed to term right now, doesn't mean shit. Stop being faggots for fuck's sake.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 07:04:10 No. 14340
I CANT BREED
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 07:21:43 No. 14341
>>14332 Just like natalists forced life on us, we will force the void on all of you. ITS OVER. Just bcuz some of you are so addicted to this life game countless lifes have to come and go to suffer cancer, mental disease and other side effects of life
>>14334 Actually the birth rates fall in every country after a certain point of development is reached eventually going below replacement
>>14333 >since complex intelligent life could continue to emerge on Earth or elsewhere We can solve that in the future by coding a robot to prevent life from emerging by making it nuke the shit out of the planet if any signs of life emerge
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 11:22:08 No. 14342
>>14251 It's pretty simple. I hate living under capitalism and I don't want to subject any other person to that fate if it could be avoided. I also see major horrors in the future. The best case scenario: global spread of communism, entails civil wars on a massive scale and potentially a new world war. Horrors beyond imagening are awaiting us in the second half of this century. I would have children if I got to raise them in a communist society.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 11:30:39 No. 14343
>>14262 You should kill yourself
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 12:04:50 No. 14344
>>1329675
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 12:36:50 No. 14345
>>1329675 >which would entail the extinction of the species, and absolutely guarantees that communism will never be achieved As I said without a problem there is no need for a solution. Also the chances of our sspecies being wiped out in a painful nuclear due to capitalist pigs is more likely than achieving communism.
Okay then listen to a guy who infact did kill himself about 2 months ago:
https://www.youtube.com/@efilblaise4883 Most efilists don't kill themselves due to reasons like lack of courage, inbuilt psychological defense mechanisms (Read the philosophical essay by Peter zapffe to understand this point
https://philosophynow.org/issues/45/The_Last_Messiah ) , fear of pain, inaccessibility of non painful methods like Nembutal usage (bcuz governments and the society want more slaves of course).
If this foolish society can force life on others who don't need it recklessly even under brutal conditions like war we have all the right to take it away for the greater good of the downtrodden and suffering people
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 12:37:47 No. 14346
*nuclear war
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 12:52:51 No. 14347
>>14345 People who exist always have the option of non existence. People who never existed have no choice.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 13:01:34 No. 14348
>>14347 >People who never existed have no choice There is no entity to have the choice. Nobody is missing out or having the fear of missing out before birth. It is better not to impose life on anybody giving consideration to the amount of people who will suffer once they are born. Taking decision for others(since entity exists after birth) and then asking them to kill themselves if they get cancer or are suffering from existential horror is cruel
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 13:05:50 No. 14350
>>14329 Because the ethics of creating life should absolutely be part of leftist discourse.
You can't complain about the human condition, ask questions about fair economics but completely ignore something more fundamental, the fairness of creating life.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 13:11:07 No. 14351
>>14348 And dooming the human race to a miserable extinction is cruel. You can make suicide easy and safe and readily available.
You’re not a leftist in any meaningful sense. Your views are apolitical because they necessarily reject all political projects and systems. I strongly advise you to leap from a tall building and re-enter the void of non-existence, so the rest of us don’t have to listen to your nihilistic, pathological philosophy.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 13:16:23 No. 14352
>>14349 There is nothing good about being a flesh suit, of course it is depressing. sure it has it's moments even people like Ben Goertzel admit to it being a horror show and says that we're deluded for thinking it's a good thing. and he's not even antinatalist but a transhumanist.
not anon, but it's not cruel if no one had to exist in the first place, especially not as a biological meat bag with a limited life span, who wants to be a rotting carcass?
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 13:16:52 No. 14353
>>14351 >And dooming the human race to a miserable extinction is cruel. No it isn't.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 13:25:28 No. 14354
>>14351 >I strongly advise you to leap from a tall building and re-enter the void of non-existence, so the rest of us don’t have to listen to your nihilistic, pathological philosophy Looks like our friend here is using one of those defense mechanisms that Zapffe noted in his essay kek
https://philosophynow.org/issues/45/The_Last_Messiah >By isolation I here mean a fully arbitrary dismissal from consciousness of all disturbing and destructive thought and feeling. (Engström: “One should not think, it is just confusing.”) A perfect and almost brutalizing variant is found among certain physicians, who for self-protection will only see the technical aspect of their profession. It can also decay to pure hooliganism, as among petty thugs and medical students, where any sensitivity to the tragic side of life is eradicated by violent means (football played with cadaver heads, and so on.) There is nothing wrong in using these defense mechanisms though. Even I use it to get by. Just pointing it out
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 13:26:11 No. 14355
>>14341 >We can solve that in the future by coding a robot to prevent life from emerging by making it nuke the shit out of the planet if any signs of life emerge <nuke bobot <made by radicool antinataloids <last forever with no maintenance <infinite supply if nukes <can reach every planet <infinite fuel <100% kill rate magical thinking and supervillain fantasies.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 13:28:25 No. 14356
>>14355 >>14341 no need intelligent life likely will snuff it self out anyways. and it's extremely unlikely for something like humanity to ever show up again, the real problem is the wild life.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 13:30:26 No. 14357
Antinatalism is cringe because we should aim to outbreed the liberals and fash
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 13:31:45 No. 14359
>>14355 >last forever with no maintenance self repairing robot will be a thing eventually
No need to. The intelligent life on that planet will eventually develop such technologies for themselves. My opinion is we should focus only on our planet or if needed our solar system… thats enough
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 13:49:21 No. 14360
>>14356 >Wild life problem The same point made at the top of the argument. Intelligent life can always reemerge through evolution. Antinatalists want to destroy life because they equate life with suffering. But life finds a way.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 13:52:08 No. 14361
>>14359 You have a surprising amount of faith in the ability of technology to solve your problems.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 14:12:49 No. 14362
>>14360 I think the wildlife problem can be dealt with by a group of antinatalist scientists getting together from different fields and developing a powerful nuke robot (if any other painless method of eliminating life is found out then I prefer that) in the future as I said. Using the power of technology of the future self repairing mechanism, AI, nanomaterials etc. can be used together to make a highly effective and resilient robot.
Not if we use AI technology based robots to detect and remove forms of advanced life as fast as it emerges in its primitive form. I am talking in the future of course. Such a robot is not entirely possible currently
>>14361 True. I am placing my bet on technology. Human society has advanced using new technologies I think eventually quite ironically it will help in our peaceful demise
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 14:19:50 No. 14363
>>14362 >AI technology based robots to detect and remove forms of advanced life as fast as it emerges in its primitive form And this is how you get eldritch machines roaming around the universe culling sapient life folks, don't do it please.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 14:32:33 No. 14364
>>14363 The antinataloids ITT aren't even capable of going through with suicide, let alone this HP Lovecraft Rick and Morty fantasy
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 15:54:04 No. 14366
antinatalism is extremely reddit
>>14253 >Nobody can consent to being brought into existence no but you can choose to k y s at any time. but you don't, do you?
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 16:24:28 No. 14367
>>14333 > The antinatalist is simply projecting their unfulfilled desire to commit suicide onto the entire species /thread
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 16:28:55 No. 14369
>>14366 >no but you can choose to k y s at any time. but you don't, do you? Self preservation instinct was also forced upon me without consent.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 16:31:15 No. 14370
>>14367 Most antinatalists just want to prevent next generation from being born. Only a tiny minority (like me) want to wipe out currently alive life forms too
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 16:46:30 No. 14372
>>14258 This. I don't understand why this topic provokes such insane vitriol. This is primarily a personal ethical choice.
>>14265 >>14339 >>14343 Lots of pure retardation itt.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 17:59:26 No. 14373
>>14370 you missed the point entirely
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 18:01:21 No. 14374
>>14370 thats just fascism porky face the wall xox
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 18:03:59 No. 14375
>>14252 Could you expand on how adoption could be fraught. I haven't thought much about the ethics of adoption, I understand there is issues with literal baby farms in third world countries, really sad that adoption is a business in some cases. But maybe you, or any other anon, can expand on the ethics of adoption more. The way I see it is in the context of nonhuman animals, it is never ethical to bring them into existence when there are animals up for adoption.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 18:31:59 No. 14376
>>14373 I think you didn't understand my point. I said most antinatalists have no plans of suicide. In fact the name of the philosophy itself clarifies it "anti" and "natalism". Its about preventing new life and has nothing to do with life that already exists. Anything else is just my personal opinion
>>14374 I am no porky. Porkies want more labor and slaves not less. I want to wipe clean all forms of life including porkies
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 18:39:28 No. 14377
>>14375 I don't know that much about it tbh, but I think one problem is that a lot of western adoption agencies are coercive, basically trying to keep mothers from being able to change their minds about giving a kid up for adoption once the process has started. There's also a whole cottage industry of religious adoption agencies that try to guilt women into adopting instead of abortion. There's also the fact that adopting requires absurd sums of money and that by contributing to it you prop up what is essentially a baby market when that money should probably be going to socialized care for kids without parents. You mentioned the problems with third world adoption, and there's also the fact that adopting brown kids if you're white and necessarily removing them from the culture they otherwise would have grown up in is pretty fraught, but then only wanting a white baby when most people in the west want one as well means that brown babies may not get cared for. Essentially, as always, the problem is capitalism, but it seems like both adoption and having your own kid are much more morally difficult on a personal level than, say, shopping at Walmart simply because the effects directly affect someone you love and are responsible for.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 18:51:08 No. 14378
>>14376 nihilism is liberalism
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 19:10:24 No. 14379
>>14378 nihilists don't believe in personal rights, hoomans are born with certain rights and shit like that so its not liberalism
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 19:13:02 No. 14380
I dont think you need to be a nihilist to be antinatalist anyway, antinatalists of diverse political and belief systems exist
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 19:24:40 No. 14381
>>14378 How is antinatalism nihilism when it is about giving a fuck by not perpetuating this retarded cycle of suffering
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 19:33:56 No. 14382
I have the solution to all of this. Not one of you has mentioned it.
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 20:21:56 No. 14384
>>14381 >>14379 >>14380 because marxism is the ideology of optimism let maos smile shine down on you and fill your heart with revolution also go outside and have sex
Anonymous 2023-01-11 (Wed) 20:30:55 No. 14385
>>14264 Which French syndicalists advocated this exactly?
Anonymous 2023-01-12 (Thu) 04:46:46 No. 14387
efilist video
Anonymous 2023-01-12 (Thu) 05:27:59 No. 14388
Life and existence don't have to be equivalent to suffering for anti-natalism to still generally hold. In fact the claim that "life is bad so don't make more people" is a strictly utilitarian benthamite view and is thus cringe as fuck.
Anonymous 2023-01-12 (Thu) 11:34:29 No. 14391
>>14381 You can kind of derive an antinatalist nihilistic position by simply being "anatalistic"? which is effectively the same thing as an anti-natalist.
Anonymous 2023-01-12 (Thu) 11:52:30 No. 14393
>>14390 I wouldn't say that Ligotti would take it very kindly to being labeled as part of a potential terrorist group.
Anonymous 2023-01-12 (Thu) 12:06:18 No. 14394
>>14393 Well labels have definitions and Ligotti fits into that label. Same way we judge by a persons action if they fit into the definition of vegan or not
Anonymous 2023-01-12 (Thu) 12:29:28 No. 14396
>>14394 You're just trying to promote your own fart efilist group, the rest of us antinatalists want nothing to do do with you. stop trying to infiltrate.
Anonymous 2023-01-12 (Thu) 12:41:13 No. 14398
>>14396 Yeah I know most antinatalists just like you support only extinction of human life but ignores animal suffering and wildlife suffering. Pretty irrational if you ask me
Anonymous 2023-01-12 (Thu) 12:48:13 No. 14399
>>14398 We don't ignore animal suffering you idiot, the faggots at r/antinatalism are mostly a bunch of childfree retards that don't know shit about the philosophy. we're just not rushing to get killed by the natalists, the second you attempt do something they'll hunt your asses and make an example out of your messiah inmendham.
Anonymous 2023-01-12 (Thu) 12:58:58 No. 14400
>>14399 >the second you attempt do something they'll hunt your asses and make an example out of your messiah inmendham Inmendham says things as it is. He is not ready to coverup the philosophy with sweet, respectable words and lies in order to make it appealing to the woke/civil/polite society. If people cant accept the truth as it is without sugar coating its better not to expound some sugarcoated half-truths instead
Anonymous 2023-01-12 (Thu) 12:59:37 No. 14401
sugar coating is just lying to yourself and others
Anonymous 2023-01-12 (Thu) 13:08:24 No. 14402
>>14400 What "truth"? that we're all better off not existing? Ligotti and Benatar already have that covered, Benatar couldn't have made it more obvious when he titled his book "better NEVER to have been".
all inmendham does is recite the same thing but in layman terms on YouTube, he emphasis animal lives as part of the problem more than any other antinatalist, sure ill give him that . but his call to activism is moot. it doesn't take a genius to see why.
Anonymous 2023-01-12 (Thu) 13:22:25 No. 14403
>>14402 These natalists are bunch of losers that whine "big meany Inmendam said the F word once so your entire philosophy is wong". Society uses these tactics to silence any minority groups and ideas. They used to apply this same tactic with athiesm back when it wasn't mainstream. Thats not Inmendham's fault. He has done his best to make people understand in simple words as you said and therefore has inspired countless activists including me
But its in the format of academic books which common folks dont have time or interest to read. That is what differentiates Inmendham. He makes it easily accessible to a wider audience
Anonymous 2023-01-12 (Thu) 13:31:20 No. 14404
>>14403 if you think that antinatalistic ideas have any hopes of reaching anywhere near the current audience that atheism/secularism has then you're delusional, I don't know what else to tell you. and even if we get the numbers someday they'll just fight us to death. there are what? 8 billion people on this earth? how many of those are atheists? 1 billion? even atheists are severely outnumbered.
Anonymous 2023-01-12 (Thu) 13:44:01 No. 14405
>>14404 >f you think that antinatalistic ideas have any hopes of reaching anywhere near the current audience that atheism/secularism has then you're delusional Antinatalist ideas are appealing even to the religious folks so don't give up just yet fren. Even religious traditions are ripe with such thoughts of not having the next generation. Maybe you are right and majority of humans will always have this pro life bias but we shouldn't give up just yet over that unverifiable assumption
Anonymous 2023-01-12 (Thu) 14:44:10 No. 14406
>>14377 >There's also the fact that adopting requires absurd sums of money Me and my SO have looked into this and it is ridiculous in the US. Any trailer hobo can pop out an unlimited number of kids they can't afford no problem, but adoption is a nightmare. Not only do the agencies (which are often conservative christian owned/supported) want to go over every penny you've ever spent, they also want to know everything about your personal life. One of the requirements for adoption, regardless of the kid's age, was every power outlet having a plug so they don't stick a fork into it. They do a walk-through of your house and if you fail some insane small thing listed in a 500 book they can deny you instantly. I don't think health inspectors or OSHA are even this pedantic. I really have no idea how anyone can qualify to adopt a kid unless they're a literal millionaire.
I'm not sure what the big deal is? People move around all the time, did my parents "steal" something from me when they moved countries when I was 2 years old? Are brown children entitled to a culture of those with similar genetics to them?
Anonymous 2023-01-12 (Thu) 14:52:42 No. 14407
>>14406 Damn leukemiacs, I knew it
Anonymous 2023-01-12 (Thu) 15:02:45 No. 14408
>>14406 >(which are often conservative christian owned/supported) do they discriminate against none religious adopting parents? is that a thing in the US?
Anonymous 2023-01-16 (Mon) 18:21:05 No. 14409
>>14281 >Pretty irrelevant subculture that is talked about too much online in proportion to its actual influence. it's growing
Anonymous 2023-01-16 (Mon) 19:26:03 No. 14412
>>14410 Is it wrong that I legitimately want these PAAU fuckers gulaged?
Anonymous 2023-01-16 (Mon) 21:50:51 No. 14413
>>1329034 >But the thing is this - natalism and antinatalism are equally retarded and ridiculous <natalism
Anonymous 2023-01-16 (Mon) 21:56:20 No. 14414
>>14326 >Antinatalism is just eugenicist. And a shitty one, adding insult to injury. Living in South Africa and thinking that there's "too many people" there is a legitimate idea. Just like the idea of eating cereal all day.
Note that legitimate idea doesn't mean "good" or anything. Just that it's an idea that can't be shrugged off.
Now, does anyone think that Benatar's book Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming into Existence will impact anyone in South Africa?
Anonymous 2023-01-16 (Mon) 21:57:22 No. 14415
>>14324 >Antinatalism is stupidity because it will lead to the extinction of people who are sensitive enough to recognize the problems of our world and transformed our species into a retard breeder one This!
Anonymous 2023-01-16 (Mon) 22:02:09 No. 14416
People don't reproduce thru sex anymore, but thu brainwashing. Memes>genes. Anti-natalists can focus on the more effective strategies when breeders just provide them with more hosts.
Anonymous 2023-01-16 (Mon) 22:26:12 No. 14417
>>14410 I see nothing but liberals in that screenshot.
Anonymous 2023-01-17 (Tue) 03:56:28 No. 14418
I'm not reading all that gay shit you internet lassalles wrote.
Anonymous 2023-01-17 (Tue) 04:26:08 No. 14419
Any serious anti-natal position that isn't just some meme tier "lmao nuke the planet!" shit is going to inherently require that we get to a socialist society so that we can actually get our own species' destinty back into our own hands. Same thing goes for any kind of trans-human political ideology, which can be made perfectly compatible with anti-natalist political ideology.No matter how you look at the situation, we are not going to be able to move past the current problems for so long as we are held here by the system and its profit-deterministic methodology of decisionmaking.
Anonymous 2023-01-17 (Tue) 09:00:26 No. 14421
>>14376 >. Its about preventing new life and has nothing to do with life that already exists. there's no way to "prevent new life" without fucking with life that already exists
lmao, i absolutely did.
Anonymous 2023-01-17 (Tue) 09:01:31 No. 14422
>>14369 >Self preservation instinct was also forced upon me without consent. simply sit on the edge of a tall building, and read a comfy book until you fall asleep
Anonymous 2023-01-17 (Tue) 09:02:30 No. 14423
>>14341 >natalists forced life on us imagine thinking life was forced on you by a coherent group with a coherent ideology when in fact a woman simply got pregnant with you
Anonymous 2023-01-17 (Tue) 09:03:22 No. 14424
>>14356 >no need intelligent life likely will snuff it self out anyways [citation needeed]
>it's extremely unlikely for something like humanity to ever show up again [citation needed]
Anonymous 2023-01-17 (Tue) 09:04:21 No. 14425
>>14359 >using a self repairing robot to wipe out all life instead of making technology that makes life more worth living. shiggy diggy
Anonymous 2023-01-17 (Tue) 09:05:04 No. 14426
>>14336 I'm not an antinatalist tho
Anonymous 2023-01-17 (Tue) 12:02:52 No. 14427
>>14252 >I don't think I myself would be able to live with the guilt of bringing a life into a world as full of suffering as this on currently is. If we lived in a different world, I'm sure my calculus would be different, but the way the situation is now, I can't personally do it. https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/jun/29.htm Anonymous 2023-01-17 (Tue) 13:23:00 No. 14428
>>14427 things that are tangibly not happening now.
Anonymous 2023-01-17 (Tue) 13:37:32 No. 14429
>>14428 You're right. When Lenin wrote that things were a million times worse for the vast majority of the worlds population
Anonymous 2023-01-17 (Tue) 16:14:43 No. 14431
>>14251 I didn't read all of this but I'm natalist because if I can't breed others probably should so the population doesn't die, plus have you ever watched bluey? retard
Anonymous 2023-01-17 (Tue) 16:36:20 No. 14433
>>14413 This. plus nobody calls themselves a "natalist".
Anonymous 2023-01-17 (Tue) 16:53:42 No. 14434
Good topic
Anonymous 2023-01-17 (Tue) 16:59:15 No. 14435
>>14414 it's not, you moron. it's not about population control,
Anonymous 2023-01-17 (Tue) 17:09:09 No. 14436
>>14421 Yes the self autonomy of a rapist SHOULD be violated if it prevents harm. the rapist in this case is the natalist.
Anonymous 2023-01-19 (Thu) 03:53:11 No. 14438
>>14251 Idealist philosophy.
Anonymous 2023-01-19 (Thu) 05:45:09 No. 14440
>>14436 I want you to call your mom and tell her she is a rapist for giving birth to you. and to record that conversation, and her reaction, and post it here.
Anonymous 2023-01-19 (Thu) 05:48:49 No. 14441
>>14436 when I said
>there's no way to "prevent new life" without fucking with life that already exists I wasn't talking about the lives of "natalists" (i.e. people who have children) but literally all of society, which would rapidly shrink and come to a grinding halt. Every human alive who makes it to old age would have to die without younger nurses, doctors, caretakers, etc. There would be no one left to ensure safety, to produce goods, to provide services, to ensure smooth and orderly functioning of life. The last humans would die the most miserable of all, just so the antinatalists could be satisfied with an abstract "end of suffering" that isn't even guaranteed since intelligent life could and statistically would eventually reemerge, either in this universe, or some other.
Anonymous 2023-01-19 (Thu) 06:06:31 No. 14442
>>14440 Giving birth to someone without their consent is similar to forcing somebody to have sex without their consent. Seething about it wont change that fact
>I want you to call your mom and tell her she is a rapist for giving birth to you. and to record that conversation, and her reaction That would be a rude behavior so I don't think anyone would do that, but the above fact still stands
Anonymous 2023-01-19 (Thu) 06:10:36 No. 14443
>>14441 It would still be better than continuing the species. One generation will suffer yes but it will wipe out the suffering of many hundreds if not thousands of generations which would otherwise have been born. No more cancer, no more heartbreaks, no more mental diseases, no more tragedies etc.
Anonymous 2023-01-20 (Fri) 22:23:42 No. 14445
>>14442 >Giving birth to someone without their consent is similar to forcing somebody to have sex without their consent. In what way? I'm ok with certain kinds of consent, and not with others. What makes these two equivalent outside of your own moral sentiments?
Anonymous 2023-01-21 (Sat) 17:19:27 No. 14447
>>14446 >technological progress is going to fix our shitty lives the 18th century called and they want their cope back
Anonymous 2023-01-21 (Sat) 18:19:45 No. 14448
>>14312 Lol, what lame and flowery platitudes
>So carelessly doth the bull depart with his seed into my wife's orifice >Trembling, I stare into the cream pie, the face of Yaldaboth looks back, ceaseless agony awaits the cuckson soon to be blasted needlessly into samsara Anonymous 2023-01-21 (Sat) 18:25:33 No. 14449
>>14409 And being rightfully clowned on.
Anonymous 2023-01-21 (Sat) 19:25:01 No. 14450
>>14409 >it's growing proof?
Anonymous 2023-01-21 (Sat) 19:56:20 No. 14451
>>14447 Because the capacity of technological progress to do so is also a social issue. This is well known. But we can't forget that the technological challenge is still there.
Anonymous 2023-01-22 (Sun) 03:49:47 No. 14452
>>14450 Well I don't have concrete proof, but it's definitely growing, it gained a lot of traction in the past decade especially. look up social media pages or groups or subreddits and it went up a bit on google trends, it's almost definitely at a surplus but not in any meaningful way.
Anonymous 2023-01-22 (Sun) 09:29:10 No. 14455
Environmentalist liberalism and nihilistic misanthropes have found the woke way to repeat eugenics and fascistic "Billions must die" rhetoric. Life is not evil and isn't eternally steeped in negativity and badness. Leftists, socialists, and communists instead should perhaps learn from the religious, like the Abrahamics, for one prominent example, who figured out this out already when they moved on from fatalistic worship of whatever "natural" idols.
Anonymous 2023-01-22 (Sun) 10:57:02 No. 14456
Thankfully most people in this thread immediately nipped this shit in the bud real quick but just in case here is billionaire Ted Turner supporting depopulation.
https://youtu.be/v0MWJX1Un8g There was another video of him being confronted on the street saying the same thing.
In addition here are birth statistics from the ever present fact that right wingers have higher birth rates than center to leftists as well as a gif I accidentally grabbed but am too lazy to remove, illustrating the importance of establishing a new generation keeping up with the continuation of beliefs.
Lest you wish for leftism to die out and a subserviently raised right wing slave class to be all that's left, which will inevitably be whittled down to the desired numbers by people in power anyway. I would go as far as to say John Carpenter was wrong, the rich and powerful don't want you to breed, they want you to stop breeding, because at a certain point it's more beneficial to keep a more manageable crop than it would be to just maximize growth to unstable levels, and antinatalism is playing into their hands.
Anonymous 2023-01-22 (Sun) 17:00:23 No. 14457
>>14456 ii
>muh billionaire supports depopulation There are billionaire who support more population too like infamous Musk :
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/us/billionaire-elon-musk-claims-population-collapse-poses-higher-risk-than-global-warming/articleshow/94624566.cms Billionaires support and disagree on many things doesn't make it right or wrong. What matters is strength of the arguments.
Of course we are let them outbreed and destroy themselves eventually with their stupid conspiracy theories. Most of the COVID related death were also among these rightoids due to their paranoia and false beliefs. Its sad in a way but world be like that
Anonymous 2023-01-22 (Sun) 18:40:42 No. 14459
>>14453 I love how in this pamphlet he’s literally talking about killing bosses and sliding on the scabs but nooooo it’s the birth strike shit that triggers you.
Anonymous 2023-01-22 (Sun) 19:07:16 No. 14460
>>14454 What’s on page 18?
Anonymous 2023-01-22 (Sun) 19:26:49 No. 14462
>>14461 >conservatives and republicans what about other rightard parties like lolberts and other reactionaries like ukip?
Anonymous 2023-01-22 (Sun) 19:32:31 No. 14463
>>14462 The anglophone right has openly declared war on its younger generations.
Almost like people's environments have a big impact on them and it's not just parentage/lineages.
Anonymous 2023-01-22 (Sun) 20:23:14 No. 14464
>>14459 >sliding on Fuck off this isn’t r/chiraqology.
Anonymous 2023-01-22 (Sun) 23:52:03 No. 14465
>>14455 >Leftists, socialists, and communists instead should perhaps learn from the religious, like the Abrahamics no thank you
Anonymous 2023-01-22 (Sun) 23:55:54 No. 14466
We need to carve out a statue for Inmendham once he passes out someday. that basement dweller sure earned one.
Anonymous 2023-01-22 (Sun) 23:56:58 No. 14467
>>14456 >Lest you wish for leftism to die out and a subserviently raised right wing slave class to be all that's left, which will inevitably be whittled down to the desired numbers by people in power anyway. Children don't inherit their parents' ideology…
Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 03:55:56 No. 14468
>>14454 >>14460 This is page 18.
>>14464 To be fair, most of this militant labour activism happened in Chicago.
Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 05:01:34 No. 14469
>>14467 >Children don't inherit their parents' ideology… Only apolitical parents, anyone who raises them in political education will most certainly empress onto them their values, and right wingers in specific as well as the few liberals with kids now more than ever are certainly planning on indoctrinating kids from birth,
because it works. Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 12:27:09 No. 14471
>>14468 That shit reads like he was trying to write his own version of The Revolutionary Catechism.
Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 13:00:45 No. 14472
>>14470 While studies differ on outcome based on year of publishing, my source is that I made it the fuck up based on the first hand knowledge I know applies to right wingers espousing how retarded they are and talking about their parents teaching them.
Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 17:44:03 No. 14474
>>14264 Birth strike should be the actual slogan of the abortion rights movement, not “my body my choice”.
Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 18:03:51 No. 14476
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_breeding_in_the_United_States Pro-natalism was the cornerstone of the bible's "fruitful and multiplying" patriotic settler idpol which is basically the founding text of fascism, as seen in the nazi eugenics rape farms (Jeffrey Epstein's Harvard friends soyfacing at the idea right now)
>>14264 >they have no vision for the future, they only seek to destroy never create Satanic bugmen: "The Great Reset is happening and that's good. Your child will be a holocaust slave and there is nothing you can do to stop it…noooo you can't kill your baby!!! You Jews in these trains are such stupid hopeless nihilists who don't understand evolution smh"
>>14456 >here are birth statistics from the ever present fact that right wingers have higher birth rates than center to leftists "the fact" nice idealism, like the comment I replied to. This non-material view ignores how people who live under a developed society
tend to have fewer kids regardless of any anarcho-syndicalist nerds writing zines, and people in undeveloped impoverished areas tend to have tons of kids regardless of whatever ideas are floating around in the discourse. Please read Marx and learn HistMat, please
>>14384 >marxism is the ideology of optimism Marxism is a SCIENCE that does a historical materialist critique of liberal ideology. Instead of rationalizing the status quo, it's about struggling with contradictions to gain understanding of these dialectical systems. Radlibs give these thought terminating cliche NPC dialog like "why don't you just kys lol" to uncomfortable questions because they cannot struggle with the grim Darwinian evolutionary system we're trapped in (read Mutual Aid)
Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 18:10:22 No. 14477
>>14476 > a developed society tend to have fewer kids regardless of any anarcho-syndicalist nerds writing zines, and people in undeveloped impoverished areas tend to have tons of kids regardless of whatever ideas are floating around in the discourse. Because people understand the basics of leaving behind a lineage and know the more children, the better of a chance there is, this is just basic math.
Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 18:31:47 No. 14478
>>14476 Holy fuck 10/10 post right here.
Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 18:35:45 No. 14479
>>14476 >Pro-natalism was the cornerstone of the bible's "fruitful and multiplying" patriotic settler idpol which is basically the founding text of fascism, Pronatalism has nothing to do with slavery, colonialism or fascism. In fact it’s the opposite. The Comstock Laws which banned contraception were actually very pro-woman because women’s groups at the time were concerned how it destroyed marriage by making sex consequence-free. You’ll notice the same people who wanted slavery abolished also wanted contraception abolished too.
Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 18:56:56 No. 14480
>The Comstock Laws which banned contraception were actually very pro-woman because women’s groups at the time were concerned how it destroyed marriage by making sex consequence-free.
Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 19:08:04 No. 14481
I'm an asshole so I'll ignore all the discussion above and just post my thoughts. Antinatalism is a stupid belief by pseudointellectuals who lack any real critical thinking skills. Simple as. I'm saying this as somebody who was likely brought into this world by a mother who only wanted the status of being a mother - and cared not for the actual process of nurturing a child. If anything, I should be fully behind antinatalism, as my life has been rife with suffering and misery from the beginning. And yet, I refuse to take that brown pill that is this ridiculous clownshow of a worldview.
Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 19:49:01 No. 14483
Just consider when you bring life you are imposing the risk of accidents, cancer, rare diseases and countless other problems on to somebody. Think very carefully what you are doing
Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 19:55:28 No. 14484
>>14482 >let me just explain to you how YOU'RE the one making life more miserable for future generations, and not me, even though I refuse to make life less miserable for those who will live beyond my years face
wall
Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 20:18:32 No. 14485
>>14484 There are countless children waiting to be adopted, don't need to bring more life into this world for that
Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 20:50:50 No. 14486
>>14482 >Antinatalism is about preventing suffering Fuck off, you're just too much of a pussy to commit voluntary species wide suicide.
Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 20:59:50 No. 14487
>>14485 90% of adoption is just glorified human trafficking
Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 21:03:01 No. 14488
>>14487 Then be the 10%. Be the change you want to see like Mr. Gandhi said. No excuse to reproduce
>>14486 Most coherent natalist
Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 21:26:05 No. 14489
>>14485 Except most of the kids in the foster care system aren't "waiting to be adopted" but waiting to be returned to their bio families. FC is meant to keep families together.
Anonymous 2023-01-23 (Mon) 22:23:53 No. 14490
What's everyone's thoughts on this? Is this eugenics or healthcare?
https://twitter.com/AvaGrac46763969/status/1590565392766078976 Anonymous 2023-01-24 (Tue) 01:55:31 No. 14493
What's a natal
Anonymous 2023-01-24 (Tue) 02:32:08 No. 14494
>>14490 The US meddling in other countries' birth control is being done to perpetuate a status quo that keeps the US on top, and nothing more. Nobody should be in favor of it, including anti-natalists.
Anonymous 2023-01-24 (Tue) 04:38:02 No. 14495
>>14490 vasectomy in itself is not "evil" of course, it should be voluntary
Anonymous 2023-01-24 (Tue) 04:40:13 No. 14496
anytime a conversation about sustainable growth or limiting population growth comes up>muh malthusian >muh evil >conversation ends
Anonymous 2023-01-24 (Tue) 08:30:18 No. 14497
>>14493 A moron, buffoon, imbecile, fucktard, dipshit, asshole, prick, cunt, shithead, bastard, clown, criminal… a human.
Anonymous 2023-01-24 (Tue) 09:51:33 No. 14500
>>14251 Its cringe we already figured that out a million threads ago.
Anonymous 2023-01-24 (Tue) 12:26:34 No. 14502
>>14307 >If you hate living so much go jump in the middle of the ocean, see if you really hate that you were brought Into the world without your consent then. Noo, that would bring me attention that I cannot savor! :^)
Anonymous 2023-01-25 (Wed) 01:44:40 No. 14503
literally everybody itt is a childless loser lol
Anonymous 2023-01-25 (Wed) 01:47:41 No. 14504
>>14503 Enjoy paying someone else's expenses for at least two decades, oh and being forever directly responsible for the piece of shit that you took out on the world.
Anonymous 2023-01-25 (Wed) 02:06:53 No. 14506
>>14503 "loser"… people throw that word around a lot to keep people in line with societal norms. "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
Anonymous 2023-01-25 (Wed) 17:59:37 No. 14508
>>14503 have fun changing daipers. Now excuse me me and my fur-baby have a full day of doing whatever the fuck we want.
Anonymous 2023-01-25 (Wed) 19:37:48 No. 14509
>>14508 Good bait, love to see the subtlety, truly hard to find these days.
Anonymous 2023-01-25 (Wed) 19:41:53 No. 14510
>>14506 Are you healthy in your mom's basement? Surely you're "anxiety" will die down enough to let you work next year?
Anonymous 2023-01-25 (Wed) 19:43:55 No. 14511
>>14508 Fur babies leave a alot of poop and fur about the place.
Anonymous 2023-01-25 (Wed) 20:28:50 No. 14512
>>14508 >Furbaby I don't care if it's a bait post, I need to tell everyone here that I fucking hate the concept of a "furbaby". It's the ultimate form of surrender and coping on the behalf of yourself and reproduction.
To adopt a dog or a cat into the precarious position of replacing the spot where an infant of your own creation was to be in your life is first inhumane to the animal. Even Chimpanzees, noted for being scarily similar to man, cannot comprehend nor cope with humanity. And yet you wish to take an animal and place it in a situation where it cannot understand its own purpose? It is sick.
And then we think to what it means to have a "furbaby"; in the end, it infers that you want a child, but are too blinded by pride, ego, and sloth to bear or sire one. And as a result, by the time your "furbaby" grows old and withers, you will be at a point where you realized this whole time you truly wanted a child, but it would be too late to have one. You have chosen to condemn yourself to a fate that makes death all the more sour.
Anonymous 2023-01-25 (Wed) 21:23:05 No. 14514
Hatred of antinatalism is often anthropocentric narcissism.
Anonymous 2023-01-25 (Wed) 21:24:05 No. 14515
Realistically, how would you increase birthrates now that the majority of AFAB people today are making it clear they DO NOT want to be mothers?
Anonymous 2023-01-26 (Thu) 01:31:16 No. 14517
>>14512 This. People whom refer to their pets as babies yet are vocally misopediac are funny. They complain about children being expensive and savage, yet they spend hundreds/thousands of dollrs on expensive toys, pet food, or other programs for their pet.
They make social media posts about therpet, yet think chikdren gettn any ounce of positive attention from strangers is "creepy/narcissistic."
They also have to clean up their pets bodily wastes.
They think dogs slobbering peoples faces is cute yet while get upset about children being messy in the play.
Anonymous 2023-01-26 (Thu) 01:32:48 No. 14518
>>14517 damn that strawman got annihilated
Anonymous 2023-01-26 (Thu) 01:35:28 No. 14519
>>14507 >hard timesmakes strong men God I hate that sentiment.
People whom encourage hardship/conflict on newer generations as means to "prove themselves" are zero-empathy.
Theyre usually sheltered rich boomers or failsons whose experience with masculinity is through movies/comic books.
Sufferng isnt a virtue.
Its so easy, that people create it for themselves all the time. Theyre born into it.
All hoe stories about rags to riches are one out of a hundred thousand .
Hard times doesnt make people virtuous. It exposes their selfish cynical desires.
It creates fascist sentiment.
Anonymous 2023-01-26 (Thu) 01:35:56 No. 14520
>>14518 But what Im saying is true.
Anonymous 2023-01-26 (Thu) 23:23:39 No. 14521
>>14519 >Strawman argument against fascism. Refusing to lay down and die because times are hard is not a fashst sentiment.
Encouraging people to refuse to use the most effective way of continuing the fight to overthrow a fascist/capitalist dystopia is the real fascist sentiment since it plays right into their plans , they want opposition to go away forever. And the most efficient way to do that is to encourage their opponents to not have children. The 1% are masters of playing the long game.
You can bet the fascists are having plenty of kids while they encourage their opponents to have none. So that they will be unopposed in a generation or two.
Having at least enough healthy and well educated children to act as replacements should be the duty of every socialist, So that opposition to capitalism never dies.
Anonymous 2023-01-26 (Thu) 23:25:18 No. 14522
>>14515 I wouldn't. I think we all need to bite the bullet that birthrates in most of the West are never going to recover, and instead look for ways to expand production without needing a drastic population increase.
Anonymous 2023-01-27 (Fri) 20:38:11 No. 14523
>>14251 They are infantile and moralizing worms. Consequently, they are accomplices of the capitalists and do not deserve any pity.
Anonymous 2023-01-28 (Sat) 01:58:40 No. 14524
>>14523 What you described sounds like a natalist to me
Anonymous 2023-01-28 (Sat) 06:41:29 No. 14526
>>14524 Then you're a retard.
Anonymous 2023-01-28 (Sat) 07:49:30 No. 14528
Even if our political or economic system changes the problems of life itself remain. So its very important to consider such grim questions bfr giving birth to somebody imo
Anonymous 2023-01-28 (Sat) 08:26:23 No. 14530
>>14525 There is more to life than pleasure and pain
Anonymous 2023-01-28 (Sat) 08:26:52 No. 14531
>>14529 What good is inexistence for the planet if noone is around to see it? Typical malthusian green-eco genocidal agenda
Anonymous 2023-01-28 (Sat) 08:35:55 No. 14532
>>14530 Yep but the question of "pain and pleasure" are pivotal to life and inescapable
>>14531 The graph is arguing for having less children not none at all
Its good for sentient life who otherwise would have been here and suffer. Look at planet mars for example. Literally no Martian exists to run around in fear of missing out anything and suffering too does not exist
Anonymous 2023-01-28 (Sat) 08:38:44 No. 14533
>>14532 "Less children" isn't really an anti-natal position though.
Anonymous 2023-01-28 (Sat) 08:42:58 No. 14534
>>14532 o o
Infact to add to that pain and pleasure are very pivotal. You dont want your child to fall victim to thousands of diseases, accidents, cancer, rare disorders (pic rel Harlequin ichthyosis ), natural disasters and countless other tragedies. Life is a game on a knifes edge
Gruesome image warning Anonymous 2023-01-28 (Sat) 08:44:08 No. 14535
>>14533 No but I am saying for natalists who consider to have kids. As an antinatalist something is better than nothing
Anonymous 2023-01-28 (Sat) 08:49:48 No. 14536
>>14535 as an anti-natalist it's important to realize that the most important thing is that we get in control of our society so that we can actually have meaningful changes instead of just individualist, incoherent mess.
Anonymous 2023-01-28 (Sat) 08:54:55 No. 14537
>>14536 Yep that's true. Have to join some anitnatalist groups and start influencing politics. All tools like abortion rights, access to contraceptives, vasectomy etc. should be encouraged and made legal
Anonymous 2023-01-29 (Sun) 17:04:50 No. 14538
Can we all admit that dismal birthrates in the West are going to be the kiss of death for capitalism, because without a consistently high amount of population growth capital can no longer grow and will end up falling into imminent crisis?
Anonymous 2023-01-30 (Mon) 04:05:51 No. 14539
>>14538 Immigration might help them for some time but with increasing development across the world people will start preferring other countries to the west so even that loophole is running out
Anonymous 2023-01-30 (Mon) 04:16:56 No. 14540
Anti-antinatalism is just poorly disguised anti abortion, anti contraceptive, climate change denialism and pro capitalist propoganda.
Anonymous 2023-01-30 (Mon) 04:28:16 No. 14541
>>14539 That, and immigration numbers are never consistent. I remember how right after the 2008 financial crash many Mexican immigrants went back to Mexico (I was living in California at the time). Immigration numbers also plummeted during the pandemic for obvious reasons.
Anonymous 2023-01-30 (Mon) 04:32:23 No. 14542
>>14538 SOON PRIVATIZED AUTOMATION. CAPITALISTS WONT NEED LARGE WORK POPULATIONS. THE THIRD WORLD WILL BE BOMBED BY AI. GET READY.
Anonymous 2023-01-30 (Mon) 04:38:09 No. 14543
>>14542 AI can't even draw hands right
Anonymous 2023-01-30 (Mon) 04:42:30 No. 14544
>>14542 AI and automation are dead labour which don't generate any actual value.
Anonymous 2023-01-30 (Mon) 04:46:03 No. 14545
>>14442 >i didn't consent to something that happened between consenting adults before I existed, it's just like rape!!! you didn't consent because you didn't exist to give consent. It's not like rape at all. If you were somehow able to go back in time and express non-consent to being born, before you were born, and your parents complied, then you would have never existed, and then you would have never been able to go back in time and express your non-consent. This "my parents raped me into existing" shit is so cringe and not even logically consistent. Also it's insulting to actual victims of rape.
Anonymous 2023-01-30 (Mon) 04:48:02 No. 14546
>>14544 >engineers do LABOR and invent a self-checkout machine >cashier gets fired from cashier job >cashier gets replaced with self-check-out machine <i-it's dead labor and doesn't create real value! copius maximus
Anonymous 2023-01-30 (Mon) 05:38:05 No. 14547
>>14546 That contributes to the declining rate of profit
Anonymous 2023-01-31 (Tue) 05:06:50 No. 14548
>>14251 Anti natalism is a viable anti capitalist strategy. only labor can produce value therefore reducing the number of workers is reducing the profit of capitalism, barring insane productivity increases from technological means and innovations which is also slowing down.
Anonymous 2023-02-08 (Wed) 19:56:27 No. 14549
>>14322 You're an egoist like everyone else, you just don't accept it
Anonymous 2023-02-08 (Wed) 20:08:47 No. 14550
>>14548 Just take a look at how many capitalist op-eds soyraging at le depopulation crisis in Europe and Japan to realize that anti-natalism is a viable strategy. In fact, de-natalism is probably a far greater threat to capitalist hegemony than USSR had ever been at any point in its history, not only because denatalism is collapsing rate of profit far more than even technological innovations, population decline is causing an apocalyptic disaster in the infrastructure and real estate markets that traditionally has been the golden field of speculation for the international bourgeoisie.
Of course, most people simply can't be asked to make such a great sacrifice as not having a genetic offsprings, as in our materialistic world leaving behind viable offsprings is the most objective measurement of self-worth, but increasing cost of living will force them anyway regardless of our personal idealism
Anonymous 2023-02-08 (Wed) 20:12:51 No. 14551
>>14550 >wobbly supporting birth striking Nothing has changed in 110 years, has it?
Anonymous 2023-02-08 (Wed) 20:17:00 No. 14552
>>14551 I'm not supporting birth strikes, i'm just stating that it is very effective. In the sense WW3 and climate apocalyse will be very effective against capitalism. In the past i would've posted that silly jak pointing at facts signboard with a serious hat to convince you just how matter of factly i'm speaking
Anonymous 2023-02-09 (Thu) 07:49:22 No. 14554
>>14553 tell this retard that Marx made fun of Malthus and Marxism has been opposed to Malthusianism from the beginning
Anonymous 2023-02-09 (Thu) 08:40:09 No. 14556
>>14553 >Destruction of suburbs LMFAO HAHHAH. No genuine traditionalist will soyface over suburbs, which really is just an attempt by white americans to maintain urban livings without actually having to live in the cities (and be near blacks) this shit is so obviously catering to Americanoids its not even funny
Anonymous 2023-02-09 (Thu) 08:44:47 No. 14557
>>14556 I want to know why she thinks birth control is being "pushed" on anyone. The courts are about to make the abortion pill illegal in America and several states are already thinking about banning IUDs and the pill.
Anonymous 2023-02-09 (Thu) 08:50:52 No. 14558
>>14557 Boomers are like this, they are befuddled by the thought that someone is not following the same lifestyle as they did (i.e raising kids) and since they're raised with idealistic narratives of good vs evil they assumed that this is the action of some bad faith actors (i.e jews)
Anonymous 2023-02-09 (Thu) 09:16:20 No. 14559
>>14555 i'm not going to make a twitter account to drive more clicks for Musk. I'm simply calling out retards as I see em
Anonymous 2023-02-09 (Thu) 20:29:52 No. 14560
>>14553 Graphic design is my passion.
Anonymous 2023-02-10 (Fri) 03:27:13 No. 14562
>>14550 >as in our materialistic world leaving behind viable offsprings is the most objective measurement of self-worth why the actual hell do people believe this
Anonymous 2023-02-10 (Fri) 09:13:52 No. 14563
>>14560 It's not a poorly-designed image at all.
Anonymous 2023-02-10 (Fri) 09:30:59 No. 14564
>>14556 >No genuine traditionalist will soyface over suburbs There's no such thing as a 'genuine traditionalist', they're all either Leave to Beaver 50s faggots or LARPers that want to live in an Isekai, and none of them know shit about any actual traditional skills/lifestyles
7ko 2023-02-10 (Fri) 14:19:05 No. 14565
That many who live under the domination of capitalism don't think that they can or want to have children any time soon is very understandable and, to be candid, mostly the correct sentiment to have. But there nonetheless is some very depraved nihilism, which can be often encountered online, of the pessimistic and cynical sort of antinatalist ideology, which takes the despondent attitudes of predominantly imperial core Americans and the wealthy liberal West about the future, and presumes to justify via such anxious attitudes the extinction of all humanity.
Anonymous 2023-02-17 (Fri) 23:30:12 No. 14567
>>14566 Queer and Catholic
Anonymous 2023-02-17 (Fri) 23:36:16 No. 14568
>>14567 I fucking hate those people.
Anonymous 2023-02-18 (Sat) 05:31:34 No. 14569
>>14566 When have abortion bans ever lead to better outcomes for women?
The Soviet Union only banned abortion because they were trying to move towards communal care of children (exactly what this astroturfed cunt is talking about) and believed once that happened no one would ever want abortion. Turns out that was a pile of horseshit as there were still close to a million abortions going on in the USSR after Stalin banned it.
Anonymous 2023-02-26 (Sun) 03:23:15 No. 14571
>>14565 >shame >shame >shame >lol kill urself wow, what a lot of hot air that was.
Anonymous 2023-02-26 (Sun) 04:10:02 No. 14574
>>14565 > that someone decides to not discontinue oneself's life means that that person still believes implicitly that life isn't all no worth and still believes that there is purpose for life Its not simplistic as you put it. The real reason nihilistic types like me don't kill ourself has many other reasons :
>fear of fucking up the attempt due to illegality of painless methods of suicide >irrational attachment to parents, dog etc. Anonymous 2023-02-26 (Sun) 04:20:18 No. 14576
>>14566 Jesuits get the bullet too.
Anonymous 2023-02-26 (Sun) 04:24:07 No. 14577
>>14575 But still the person does not believe there is a purpose for life. They know its simply attachment resulting from having a primitive brain shaped by evolution
Anonymous 2023-02-26 (Sun) 04:36:50 No. 14578
>>14575 attachment is by definition not a rational thing but an emotional one.
Anonymous 2023-02-26 (Sun) 05:19:47 No. 14580
>>14579 That cartoon is absolute cope to continue living.
>will you fight ? Or will you perish like a dog? Nope. Everyone will perish in the end. Its only a matter of how quick or how late. Kys and escape this stupid life game as soon as possible
Anonymous 2023-02-26 (Sun) 05:24:52 No. 14581
Be courageous like Michelstaedter, Philipp Mainländer and end it all. Overdrive the mental defense mechanisms with strong blows of rational thought
Anonymous 2023-02-26 (Sun) 06:08:21 No. 14584
>>14448 He is a terrible writer, don't know what people see in him
Anonymous 2023-02-26 (Sun) 06:24:43 No. 14585
>>14582 i'm not watching your video /pol/yp
Anonymous 2023-02-26 (Sun) 20:19:46 No. 14586
>>14571 no lie most arguments against nihilism I read online are some variation of "kys" just with different degrees pompousness.
Anonymous 2023-02-26 (Sun) 20:34:51 No. 14587
>>14580 Take your own advice, I'll be standing over your grave
Anonymous 2023-02-26 (Sun) 20:42:51 No. 14590
>all this loathing for living >Never considered doing anything other than lamenting https://youtu.be/nnJmA9_dkP0 I'm tired of petulant children airing their grievances, touch grass
Anonymous 2023-02-26 (Sun) 22:12:32 No. 14592
>>14591 >person A says X <Person B says person A says Y >person A says "No, I said X" <Person B finds an example of person C saying Y wooooow good job
Anonymous 2023-02-27 (Mon) 08:03:18 No. 14596
>>14566 People like this need to be driven out of the left for good.
Anonymous 2023-02-27 (Mon) 12:10:10 No. 14597
>>14253 There is no suffering that entails from existence
Please kill yourself for the greater good
Anonymous 2023-02-27 (Mon) 21:50:55 No. 14598
Assumptions: The Thread
Anonymous 2023-03-02 (Thu) 01:06:51 No. 14599
>>14598 I'm assuming you're from reddit and henceforth need to tell you to go back
Anonymous 2023-03-04 (Sat) 20:19:00 No. 14602
Bro, who cares.
12323232222234569 Anonymous 2023-03-05 (Sun) 02:41:39 No. 14603
But kids are one of the greatest proclamations of one's stake in the goal of communist future. Perhaps the Western leftists might be more competent if they had to always take into consideration the effects of their policies on their own children down the line. Too easy 4 leftoids to call 4 the abolishment of any form of public govt. and authority, to oppose any state activity, and to abolish all laws when they don't have kids that have to be cared 4 constantly.
Anonymous 2023-03-07 (Tue) 21:28:35 No. 14605
>>14601 Morality isn't real so it can't be a normative
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 00:11:56 No. 14607
>>14550 >population decline is causing an apocalyptic disaster in the infrastructure and real estate markets that traditionally has been the golden field of speculation for the international bourgeoisie. I don't think real estate and infrastructure are the biggest cash cows for the ruling class. At this point the biggest capitalists are trading dividends with each other. They don't need us anymore.
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 00:17:22 No. 14608
>>14606 the suffering argument still isnt' the entire anti-natal argument and people who pretend like it is are idiots or dishonest.
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 00:26:50 No. 14609
>>14251 >>14251 >The right completely rejects any anti-natal ethic (see pic related). most antinatalists are overwhelmingly pessimists (or cynics) and when politically active they tend to be leftist socialists antinatalism is not socialist in the slightest. it is reactionary. the premise that people have children because they are selfish because the world is oh so horrible, mean and nasty, and that we don't have the consent of the unborn, so we shouldn't infringe upon their right to not be born, etc., is completely immaterial and needlessly moralistic. It is simply absurd.
>antinatalism is very underground No, it is not. It is very "popular" online and it is the modern manifestation of Malthusianism.
> and is mostly perceived in a negative light even by the left because it is not even leftist. it's about as "left wing" as "cutting the tall trees."
>however, I think that anti-natal ethics but what about ethics? what? do you not see that this is purely idealism?
>antinatalists tend to be hardcore socialist leftists WHO ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
>but they also recognize deeper issues that (I would argue) are even more pressing than the overcoming of capitalism. you are a bourgeois. that is why you think that there is a more pressing ETHICAL issue, more important than overcoming capitalism.
>as antinatalist philosophy often asks deeper questions about life how are these questions deeper? what is "deeper" about "wah wah I wish my parents didn't have sex in order to create me"? this is about as infantile as complaining about bedtimes…
>>now before you slam antinatalists as genocidal defeatist nihilists >i'm not genocidal, I just think that widespread suffering from poverty is caused by people having too many babies and not because of capitalism, in fact, i think overthrow of capitalism is less important than fixating on this completely made up ethical dilemma. >you should understand that antinatalists are not a monolith, some are apolitical and some aren't, some have unconditional anti-life attitudes and some are transhumanists and so on… go touch grass. right now.
>the point im trying to make here is that I think it's a mistake to outright reject antinatalism or antinatalists from leftist discourse, and as allies, as antinatalists care deeply about suffering, something that the left is synonymous with. this is patently bourgeois nonsense. if we went to the masses with antinatalism, they would not see us any different from the ruling class that has promoted similar bourgeois views that blame the poor for their own suffering. notice how this "ethical question" just happens to make bourgeois more ethical, since who is statistically less likely to have many children? the bourgeois love this because this serves as a good reason for austerity.
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 00:45:43 No. 14610
>>14609 lmao i have literally never had any issues with talking about anti-natalism with people IRL and have them agree with me.
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 00:47:39 No. 14611
>>14610 >lmao i have literally never had any issues with talking about anti-natalism with people IRL and have them agree with me. were they as bourgeois as you? or is it yet another case of politically backward people unfortunately being striken with reactionary false consciousness?
seems to me like your position here as wrecker, to convince the left that they shouldn't actually do anything about capitalism, that they should instead hyperfixate on novel ethical quandaries.
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 01:16:18 No. 14612
>>14548 >>14550 The fact everything is being automated proves you wrong. Capitalists want a lower birthrate because they don't need us anymore and don't want to deal with the eventual rabble.
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 01:30:26 No. 14614
>>14611 This, antinatalism, as evident with this thread, and it's consequences have been disastrous for the human race and the solidarity of this board
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 01:53:13 No. 14616
>>14606 designer babbis especially under class alienation is bound to be dystopic as fuk. we should just focus on getting rid of unanimously agreed upon negative genetic inheritance for stuff like down syndrome or cystic fibrosis, which also is related to both epigenetics and environmental factors and other class alienation related issues. how do we do begin to do that? push for avenues of relatively cheap or state subsidized disease screening and eradication programs under intense scrutiny and pressure from the organized working class and then under developing socialism we will have more to work with
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 02:05:20 No. 14617
>>14616 Down's and CF are both horrible conditions I would love to see done away with for good. Life expectancy for both is around 40 years old if lucky.
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 13:58:25 No. 14618
there's nothing more selfish than having children on a dying planet.
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 14:12:01 No. 14619
>>14525 >Most of us wouldn't accept 10 minutes of intense pleasure for 10 minutes of most excruciating pain. proofs? at least like 50% of human pleasure is taken from pain we managed to cope with.
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 14:16:08 No. 14620
>>14529 >the commodification of human life has gotten to the point where the most essential processes of human existence are portrayed as a consumption choice akin to buying an electric car or washing with warm water. grim, capitalism was a mistake
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 15:13:41 No. 14621
>>14618 >There's nothing more selfless than Capitalism FTFY
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 15:25:43 No. 14624
>>14622 Selfish, that's my bad. I meant selfish and I think the AI is trying to censor me (or I'm dumb about checking my spelling)
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 15:29:43 No. 14625
>>14623 It's true though? The anthropocene is on track to wipe out 75% of Earth's species.
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 15:58:54 No. 14627
@!d=Uo v
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 16:11:17 No. 14628
>>14623 found the /pol/ tourist
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 16:13:13 No. 14629
>>14626 Neat someone saved my pic and reposted it. I had to scroll back a few months to find the frog.
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 16:25:44 No. 14630
Women should stay in the kitchen and pump out new human material vs kill all infants. Truly dialectics at play right here
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 16:31:36 No. 14631
>>14630 adults should killed as well
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 16:35:09 No. 14632
>>14631 Ok on second thought this sounds compelling please tell me more
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 16:41:41 No. 14634
>>14633 Gonna replay it right now to get my fill of theory for the rest of the week
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 17:38:40 No. 14635
>>14628 >everyone who doesn't go along with my doomer alarmism is /pol/ lol
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 18:05:48 No. 14637
>>14636 Literally this, /thread
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 18:49:16 No. 14640
>>14636 this. but at the same time i don't want to expose children to a world of suffering so until that socialist utopia comes i'm not having kids
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 20:41:53 No. 14642
>>14638 That's still being debated
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 20:47:10 No. 14644
>>14643 They're shortsighted and not all on the same page.
Anonymous 2023-03-08 (Wed) 20:48:27 No. 14646
>>14644 ok then what do the majority of porky believe?
I'm a contrarian-communist I just do whatever porky dislikes the most
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 16:10:12 No. 14648
>>14647 >will be living in extremely terrible conditions quite soon. All these could be avoided by popularizing antinatalist thought and preventing more life from existing in the future And? So we stop producing human life, then what? You didn't prevent everyone's suffering from years before, you can't possibly know what fresh new horrors awaits in the future. And do you honestly think collective suicide is the thing everyone is going to do willy nilly cause it's the "right thing to do"? There is no intrinsic meaning to life and we suffer for no reason, and yet people have worked to overcome great pain to make a better life to live, like Lenin said, "we stand on the shoulders of giants". You want to end life when the whole point to being a socialist is to improve our standard of living, and the antinatalist position is the childish notion of "life is too hard and mean to continue". No, people shape the material conditions we live in, and we the proletariat can reshape the meaning of our lives, our material conditions to be an improvement over what came before. One only has to imagine Sisyphus was happy in his punishment to understand he endured punishment to spite uncaring forces.
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 16:19:15 No. 14649
>>14647 >All the cities, mansions we built and technological innovations we achieved so painstakingly will be turned into dust pretty soon. In 10 billion years? Yeah really soon bro.
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 16:25:30 No. 14650
>>14649 (cont) FYI, in regards to other spatial objects being so far they are unreachable, it would take only 40.6 million years to get to the nearest star even if you were only going 70mph, therefore it's easily achievable to get there before the sun explodes
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 16:28:38 No. 14651
>>14648 >You didn't prevent everyone's suffering from years before sunk cost fallacy
Fuck Camus and his "imagine Sisyphus happy" cope. The uncaring force by the very definition is uncaring so perpetuating suffering to spite universe that doesn't give a shit is an illogical dead-end and cope to continue perpetuation of life
Yeah I am all for improving standard of living and will continue to support socialism as it will provide better living conditions but at the same time will promote the anti-natalist cause and eventual extinction
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 16:30:23 No. 14652
>>14650 sun in that solar system will also explode so ded either way in due time
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 16:36:41 No. 14653
>390+ posts about some terminally online shit
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 16:44:52 No. 14654
>>14652 sure but that's just an example, even with current propulsion, colonising other solar systems could be possible with generation ships (albeit with difficulty), most likely much faster propulsion and sleeper technology will be invented eventually
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 16:54:51 No. 14655
>>14651 Okay bro, stay sad and mad
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 16:55:05 No. 14656
>>14654 I mean then what ?
>eventual destruction of that solar system >eventual migration from there >repeat until all nearby solar systems are exhausted >extinction We will only be prolonging the inevitable tbh
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 16:56:03 No. 14657
>>14655 >stay sad and mad not sad or mad right now
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 16:57:07 No. 14658
>>14656 Bro, if the human race manages to last literal BILLIONS of years, there's no reason to think we won't eventually develop the technology to escape the end of the universe, or reverse it, or whatever, and even if we can't, we still lived well for billions of years, this viewpoint is deranged, something can be good even if it doesn't last forever
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 17:00:36 No. 14659
>>14658 theres a theory that avoiding entropy and heat death you'd need to build a galaxy sized hadron collider to switch universes so we could prolly try that once we get powerful enough i think
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 17:01:39 No. 14660
>>14659 also the evidence from switching from the berenstein universe to the berenstain universe proves that its entirely within the realm of possibility to do it
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 17:04:10 No. 14661
>>14660 >berenstein >berenstain Man I just wanna shift to the universe where the Soviet Union won the Cold war
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 17:05:52 No. 14662
>>14661 (they stay state capitalist forever)
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 17:09:02 No. 14663
>>14659 Can we really shift universe though ? Sounds like cope
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 17:09:39 No. 14664
>>14662 yeah thats what wouldve happened but china wouldve also remained maoist and the second cold war wouldve been between maoist china and the dengist soviet union to export revolution worldwide
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 17:17:22 No. 14666
>>14665 Mandela effect can be explained by other psychological phenomenon :
https://www.skeptic.com/insight/the-mandela-effect/ This being proof of an alternate or parallel universe seems unlikely
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 17:18:55 No. 14667
>>14666 multiverse theory is pretty widely accepted in the scientific community though its just that scientists are never creative enough to imagine how they interact or intersect
Anonymous 2023-03-09 (Thu) 17:27:28 No. 14668
>>14667 Yeah the theory itself is plausible and considered probable among the scientists. But the problem is humans travelling to the nearby star itself take millions of years. We will never see many parts of our own universe since its accelerating away from us… so travelling to an entirely new universe itself seems to be an unattainable pipedream
Anonymous 2023-03-10 (Fri) 23:58:44 No. 14669
>>14626 it's not doomposting if it's true.
Anonymous 2023-03-11 (Sat) 00:03:00 No. 14670
>>14669 >It's not doom posting if true It's still doom posting, and there is still a laundry list of things worth doing instead of arguing about the meaninglessness of existence. Nothing is more meaningless then expressing discomfort on the Internet
Anonymous 2023-03-16 (Thu) 08:48:12 No. 14673
>>14366 >hurr durr kys Horrible takes on antinatalism is the intersection of /pol/ and /leftypol/.
No one wants to touch it. They devote the least amount of critical consideration possible, find a nice slogan, and call it a day.
%%%%%%%%% Anonymous 2023-04-11 (Tue) 10:58:45 No. 14674
実はここのやつらが言う反出生主義は結構反女性なのです。
Anonymous 2023-04-15 (Sat) 22:24:25 No. 14676
>>14545 im a rape victim and don't find this analogy insulting at all.
in fact I find it very accurate.
Anonymous 2023-04-30 (Sun) 13:53:23 No. 14678
>>14265 >I am le chad pepe xdxd Imagine unironically posting weird, self-aggrandizing stuff like this.
>>14674 Little weeaboo was so proud of his Japanese studying and was peeing himself waiting to show it to the class.
Anonymous 2023-04-30 (Sun) 14:22:14 No. 14680
As with everything, redditors go above and beyond to make the idea seem as insane as possible. Unless you're already apart of the elites or near elites, having a child is a massive uncertainty. Even in the best cases, it might still come out retarded. But also, everyone gets cancer at some point and dies so why bother to begin with?
Anonymous 2023-04-30 (Sun) 15:42:47 No. 14681
>>14251 Non-discussion. Births are going down either way and we will reach peak population in 2040-50 if not before that.
Anonymous 2023-05-28 (Sun) 23:29:10 No. 14682
>>14252 >For me, this question comes down to a personal ethical judgement. Yea but you see me and you making a personal choice abstaining from procreation doesn't help our cause any does it now?
if the breeders aren't convinced by argument and "reason" we still have take it upon ourselves to extinguish suffering one way or another.
Anonymous 2023-05-28 (Sun) 23:35:27 No. 14683
>>14681 completely irrelevant to the subject of antinatalism.
it's about extinction not just "low births"
Anonymous 2023-05-28 (Sun) 23:48:17 No. 14684
Antinatalism is reddit nihilism
Anonymous 2023-05-28 (Sun) 23:48:48 No. 14685
>>14683 Why not extinguish yourself?
Anonymous 2023-05-29 (Mon) 01:08:10 No. 14687
>>14406 >posting that attributed quote from "Voltaire" again. Voltaire never said that quote, it was Kevin Alfred Strom, an American neo-Nazi, who first said those words in 1993.
Anonymous 2023-05-29 (Mon) 01:23:31 No. 14688
>>14251 Antinatalism is not, and will not, ever be taken seriously in spaces other than online. Procreation is obviously up to personal preference and as you said, antinatalists aren't some monolith. Deal with them as you would anyone else.
Anonymous 2023-05-29 (Mon) 01:56:42 No. 14689
>>14685 because it doesn't solve the problem.
Anonymous 2023-05-29 (Mon) 01:57:48 No. 14690
>>14684 very insightful anon!
Anonymous 2023-05-29 (Mon) 01:58:25 No. 14691
>>14689 Start shooting up preschools like adam lanza then, another antinatalist "efilist"
Your misanthropy and self-hatred is just fuel for bloodshed
Anonymous 2023-05-29 (Mon) 02:00:15 No. 14692
>>14690 Yes
You are a redditor and a nihilist who unironically posts on r/nihilism about how angry you were that you saw a happy couple carrying their baby in a park, hoping to get upvotes
Anonymous 2023-05-29 (Mon) 02:02:43 No. 14693
>>14688 procreation on a case by case basis isn't the problem, I don't expect people to stop breeding even if 100% of the population were convinced antinatalists.
it's procreation being socially and "morally" accepted that's the problem.
Anonymous 2023-05-29 (Mon) 02:04:07 No. 14694
>>14693 Do animals also have moral considerations before making babies, or is it just natural?
Anonymous 2023-05-29 (Mon) 02:06:41 No. 14695
>>14691 still doesn't solve the problem.
Lanza was the kind of person that was going to mass shoot anyways, regardless of philosophical belief.
Anonymous 2023-05-29 (Mon) 02:11:26 No. 14696
>>14695 You hate the concept of life - he killed life.
Its a job well done, no?
Are you also happy about climate change and mass pollution turning earth into a sterile wasteland? I would be in your situation.
Whats the point of "ideas" if ideas still require brains to receive them? Isnt praxis war and terrorism, until all organic matter is annihilated?
Whats your perfect strategy?
Anonymous 2023-05-29 (Mon) 02:19:04 No. 14697
>>14696 no and no.
you wouldn't be happy about these if you took antinatalism seriously.
lets use the example of conflict
there is no sense in winning the battle if you lose the war. least of all battles that make you look bad in the long run (Lanza).
>Whats your perfect strategy? no idea, that's the puzzle.
Anonymous 2023-05-29 (Mon) 02:36:28 No. 14698
>>14672 Gene correction isn't what is considered designer babies
Anonymous 2023-05-29 (Mon) 03:11:17 No. 14699
>>14694 That's my point, procreation is too deeply ingrained in our nature that even in an antinatalist society it would still happen.
so it doesn't make much sense to punish individuals too much for that. what matters is that everyone gets why procreation is bad then we could all be on board to extinct the rest of the planet.
Anonymous 2023-05-29 (Mon) 04:09:50 No. 14701
>>14251 > most antinatalists are overwhelmingly pessimists (or cynics) and when politically active they tend to be leftist socialists (Think Thomas Ligotti, David Benatar, Philipp Mainländer… etc). antinatalism is very underground, even more so than veganism and is mostly perceived in a negative light even by the left. it's seen as reactionary and extreme and therefore dismissed. Antinatalism IS reactionary and also bourgeois. I have never heard of any socialist anti-natalism but they'd still be wrong. The world is full of suffering, not because of "selfish parents who, unethically, did not consider whether their child would like to have been born" but because Capitalist imperialism cannot provide for human need, only for the private accumulation of capital for a select few
framing. see above.
framing, see above.
and there it is: guys, guys, guys let's fixate on this totally made up bourgeois ethical quandary and work tirelessly to abolish natalism instead of the real material root cause of suffering
I would not ever argue that antinatalists are genocidal, except that they clearly seem to believe that poverty is the result of too many selfish parents choosing to have children against the wishes of their *checks notes* unborn children. in that sense, it is basically rebranded malthusianism
antinatalists don't actually care about suffering. they don't want to address the actual material root cause of suffering. rather, they want to distract from the issue of the exploitative nature of imperialist capitalism by fixating on bourgeois moral debate
Anonymous 2023-05-29 (Mon) 04:19:17 No. 14702
>>14701 >Antinatalism IS reactionary and also bourgeois see pic rel
I am socialist antinatalist
Anonymous 2023-05-29 (Mon) 04:37:55 No. 14703
>>14702 who cares what musk says, dude is also constantly speaking against ai "despite" being an openai investor (actually wants gov to regulate ai and let openai have a monopoly on it)
Anonymous 2023-05-29 (Mon) 04:54:14 No. 14704
>>14703 He is fearmongering so that people use only his AI and drive competition out. Anyway the point is that socialism can take care of material needs true but that doesn't mean there wont be antinatalists in a socialist society due to philosophical and other reasons
Anonymous 2023-05-29 (Mon) 04:59:34 No. 14705
>>14701 >Antinatalism IS reactionary and also bourgeois. I have never heard of any socialist anti-natalism but they'd still be wrong. The world is full of suffering, not because of "selfish parents who, unethically, did not consider whether their child would like to have been born" but because Capitalist imperialism cannot provide for human need, only for the private accumulation of capital for a select few Wrong, you have no understanding of reality to even begin forming a philosophy as a counter argument.
Anonymous 2023-06-01 (Thu) 18:47:14 No. 14707
>>14706 Anarchism doesn't have a single master-thinker the way marxism does, so for anarchists, it's not a problem to begin with.
Anonymous 2023-06-01 (Thu) 19:10:47 No. 14708
>>14706 She simply didn't know about advanced biology and genetics. It's like the socialists that today say that meat is essential to human nutrition and that trans people are a modern phenomenon. They are talking of things out of their depth.
Anonymous 2023-06-01 (Thu) 19:16:02 No. 14710
>>14706 I see nothing wrong here. Birth strike in the imperial core is objectively a good thing.
Anonymous 2023-06-05 (Mon) 15:00:53 No. 14713
>>14578 That implies that rationality only cares for profit, the very definition of which we cannot pinpoint in our objective reality (simply because of it's inexistance).
Rational thinking and emotional are the ultimate spooks.
Anonymous 2023-06-08 (Thu) 00:45:56 No. 14714
>Antinatalism Oh, so eugenics isn't called "reproductive health" anymore?
https://corbettreport.com/gates/ https://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_gates.html https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-pp-exterminating-idUSL2N2X11YN I keep losing track with all this newspeak, there should be dictionaries for this kind of shit.
Anonymous 2023-06-08 (Thu) 15:05:18 No. 14715
>>14713 You are a retard making enormous assumptions.
Anonymous 2023-06-09 (Fri) 06:39:12 No. 14718
"Leftist socialist" doesn't always equate to good. There are after all Fabian eugenicists, Nazi socialists, and lumpen anarchofascists that technically count as socialists but are fundamentally of the reactionary socialist types ultimately. Many Western socialists are simply disaffected petty bourgeois who are mad that the world has some laws.
Anonymous 2023-06-09 (Fri) 07:07:44 No. 14719
>>14251 Its only positive if retards dont reproduce.
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