/edu/ - Education

you can accept that china is both good and not socialism

>>15979
You can accept you are weak-minded and weak-willed lmao

wow i've never heard this argument before

>>15981
yet you keep doing the same thing

This is very good, not just because it agrees with me but rhetorically it is high-level as fuck, easily understandable too. Show it to your liberal friends.

>>15980
>>15982
cringe

>>15984
Indeed you are quite cringe, lame as well

So you're telling me that western marxist are like fascists?

>>15985
holy cringe

>>15986
nah, it's opposite in the sense that fascists are in love with violence and the "left" martyrdom. The maso to their sado, know what I'm saying?

>Real Revolution
This is so fucking funny.

>>15989
Actually existing things are so funny. Get more funny the more you understand.

>>15983
Is picrel Gorbachev?

>>15991
No, Appelnisov or something which is a play on Limonov

>>15979
You can also accept China's government is socialist, or that the socialist faction is strong. The binary thinking is retarded, but such is the state of western leftism, I'm arguing against ultra leftists on one side and imperial chauvinistic socialists on the other.

>>15979
>>15978
this thread is not about China. Literally read or listen to the article. It's about how Western Marxism loves purity and martyrdom, but not real revolution, largely because of its cultural inheritance from Christianity, which fetishizes dying for a good cause, even if it achieves nothing.

>>15981
I will assume you are not being sarcastic and you are being genuine and sincere, because to assume sarcasm as the default mode of communication makes it difficult to get ideas across sincerely.

>>15995
very cool

>>15994
>largely because of its cultural inheritance from Christianity
Tbh it probably has a lot more to do with the fact that conditions in the West are a lot more hostile to socialist organizing, and so Western Marxists necessarily have less experience with it. If you can't get past the stage of being a small clique of activists or glorified reading group, you aren't going immediately grasp the challenges of leading an actual government.

>>15998
If it can't continue existing then it isn't better.

>>15999
not necessarily true, for example they could be subjected to different conditions

>>16000
They could have gay sex with your mom, ever think of that?

>>15997
>conditions in the West are a lot more hostile to socialist organizing
You think that (and I know why) but it is more dangerous to be a communist in some peripheral shithole (ukr, turkey, etc.)

>>16002
This.

>>15977
ignore dengist threads

>>16004
https://archive.is/GfM71

>If private property, money, abstract value production, class society, and the state, are abolished prematurely, when the oppressive logic and power of capital still controls the entire world, China would become vulnerable to both external imperialist violence and internal reactionary sabotage (no doubt under the banner of “democracy”). The Communist Party would be immediately compromised by foreign backed elements; the country might be torn apart once again by civil war, and once again subjected to imperialist domination. The Chinese revolution, what so many millions fought, worked tirelessly, and sacrificed their lives for, will have been for nothing.
Marxism is anything but rigid and dogmatic, and has always been about adapting to the ever changing objective conditions of each era, using what ever is available toward revolutionary goals. The opinion of those baizuo who think that China should have chosen the disastrous course of action described above, or at least remained underdeveloped, poor, and weak, in order to satisfy their fundamentalist interpretation of Marxism, should not be indulged. These myopic and short-sighted “left com”, “ultra-left”, or modern “Maoist” types love to denounce modern China as a betrayal of socialism, without considering that it is the failure of the Western left to do successful revolutions in their countries which made it necessary for existing socialist states to adapt to the global conditions of entrenched neo-liberal capitalism.
Those who think that 1.4 billion people, who for 200 years suffered so immensely under vicious colonial rule and brutal capitalist domination, will so quickly forget what their true enemy is, don’t know much about capitalism, colonialism, or people.

- He Zhao, The Long Game and Its Contradictions, 27th October, 2018

Absolutely loved the read, though given the mention of Christianity and Catholicism, I'd love to add my own two cents to the debate.

I've discussed this a lot before, but I think the (for lack of a better term) gradations of Religious Centralism had an outsized role on the culture and organizing principles of countries and their leftist movements. Okay, that sounds like a bunch of weird intelligentsia terms, so I'll try translating it into layman's terms.

Europe is a historical anomaly. It was home to a lot of middle-sized competing historical states. I think the closest equivalent to it would maybe be India, but even then, these massive blobs owned large swathes of the subcontinent for most of its history. Europe, though, is a biome of conflict and migration. It's geography was beneficial enough that you could have the development of fortified cities (unlike most of the Steppe) and yet there wasn't really a centralized power capable of ruling over all of it since Rome.

Now, if you look at Religions throughout the world. A trend in Eastern Religion is that the State and Faith go hand-in-hand. In some cases, Faith becomes the ideology of The State. In China, Confucianism merged so closely with State Power that it's genuinely difficult to see where one ends, and the other begins.

Even in the Christian World, there's a marked difference between "Eastern" and "Western" Christianity. Namely, the impression I get of Eastern Christianity is that it'd been subordinated to the State of Byzantium. Then later Russia. Which is to say, the Church became a State Institution under the oversight of the Emperor. It was kind of a Patron-Client relationship. The States that fell under the wings of Eastern Christianity were almost always subordinated to a massive Empire. They weren't peer-to-peer competitors. This also may explain why the East-West Schism came to be. The Pope was the de facto ruler of Rome and existed on the periphery of the Byzantine Empire. To assert that he was the "first among equals" as is the Orthodox Tradition is to assert that he's equally subordinate to the Imperial State. By asserting independence (which The Emperor couldn't successfully challenge) Western Christianity could grow as an institution parallel to the states surrounding it. It could grow beyond borders. Almost like the world's first NGO.

And so throughout medieval Europe, you have the Papacy holding enough sway to play a Kingmaker in political disputes and be a genuine force in continental politics, but no State ever assert dominance over the entirety of Christendom (and thus subordinate the Pope.) This lead to bizarre displays of realpolitik, such as during the 30 years' war, where The Pope and Catholic France were in league with The Protestants to challenge the power of The Habsburgs, despite Protestants being ideological enemies of The Pope.

The Catholic Church and Europe, despite being decentralized compared to other Religions/Continents, could still maintain a degree of ideological power. What do I mean by ideological power? In essence, Carl Schmitt said "Sovereign is He who decides on The Exception." And for most of history The Pope could decide on that Exception, even if he had to work through intermediaries like the King of France or HRE. You'd see this State-NGO partnership emerge in a primitive form. Like during the Albignesian Crusade: The Pope wanted this Gnostic Heresy wiped out (in no small part because it was gearing up to genuinely challenge Papal Authority) and The French King wanted the rich lands of Touland under his thumb. Win-Win.

The Catholic Church developed actual doctrine for dealing with the contradictions of managing an actual State. Which authority to defer to for moral questions (which put individual conscience as the deferment of last resort) and overall practiced a pragmatic kind of governance.

Martin Luther than came around, and he broke up that semi-centralized authority via Protestantism. He made Religion simply a thing "of the Text" and thought it could exist solely through the interpretation of the text (naively presuming everyone would come to the same conclusions he would). Rather than achieving any of his pragmatic aims (namely replacing Catholicism with Lutheranism) he simply broke the power of The Church and allowed local Princes to assert all the real authority.

Before, Catholic Doctrine could regulate the most ambitious aims of kings. The Encomienda System existed in part because Priests and Monks were willing to vocally oppose outright slavery of the peoples of the New World. It could shift the tide as it were. With Protestantism however, even Catholic Nations began to act independently. The Nation gained supremacy over The Faith.

Thus, I don't see the poor state of Western Leftism as an indictment of Catholicism. If anything, I think the shadows of Catholic traditions and practices made it easier for the Left to grow, in no small part, because individuals were willing to submit to an outside authority in the form of The Party or Moscow rather than individualized interpretations of Text. In Protestant traditions though? You become the ultimate arbiter of the spiritual reality of the world. You can't make God some outside force that you have to submit to and temper your desires by. God becomes your own ego. What makes you happy is what makes God happy. God exists just to provide miracles to make you happy again. It's an entirely selfish faith whereby individuals believe themselves capable of determining the damnation or salvation of others, without submitting to any established authority.

>>16006
Thanks for your contribution to this thread. I really appreciated having the religious angle addressed more in depth with an actual perspective from religious studies. I didn't expect that to happen. You basically wrote an article in and of itself, worth its own thread. Thanks!

>>16002
I meant more hostile in the sense that fewer people are interested in any radical change. Comfortable people make bad revolutionaries.

>>15987
MEGA ULTRA CRINGLORD ALERT 🚨 ‼️ 🔔

>>16007
Most of my education came from Catholic School and religious studies was a big part of that. Marxism and dialectical materialism was a kind of "missing link" that helped me to study religion in a new, more fascinating light.

As an aside, something the Chapo's commented on once before is that American Comedy mostly comes from minority groups (Jews, Blacks, etc) and I think they included Catholics in that list. Which, I mean, even though we've mostly assimilated, I think is interesting. There are still points of tension where you're reminded as a Catholic that a few people still consider you an alien culture to the U.S. from distinguishing "Christian" and "Catholic" into separate groups, to a few prods out and out saying you're going to Hell for "worshipping Mary" and "submitting to The Pope."

That aside, I think there's something about Protestant Cultures that make them extremely difficult to perform mass, collective actions. And it may go a way towards explaining why most Communist Revolutions occur in states with more "centralized" Faiths than decentralized ones.

>>16010
>American Comedy mostly comes from minority groups (Jews, Blacks, etc) and I think they included Catholics in that list.

I've heard standup comedy has its origins in racist vaudeville that started off as like blackface stump speeches and other circus-tier stuff from the 1800s, but then the actual racial minorities in the early 1900s started to "muscle in" on the market that had previously been cornered by white people. So instead of like a white person doing blackface, you'd have essentially a black guy doing an exaggerated character (Stepin Fetchit, for instance). "Jewface" acts quickly sprungup along blackface acts, and Jewish immigrants from Europe would do exaggerated caricatures from the old country, Doting Jewish Mother bits, etc. So this is the reason Jews ended up in comedy and acting. As Hollywood sprung up, they cornered that market early as well, hence their over-representation in Hollywood.

>>16011
>I've heard standup comedy has its origins in racist vaudeville that started off as like blackface stump speeches and other circus-tier stuff from the 1800s, but then the actual racial minorities in the early 1900s started to "muscle in" on the market that had previously been cornered by white people. So instead of like a white person doing blackface, you'd have essentially a black guy doing an exaggerated character (Stepin Fetchit, for instance). "Jewface" acts quickly sprungup along blackface acts, and Jewish immigrants from Europe would do exaggerated caricatures from the old country, Doting Jewish Mother bits, etc. So this is the reason Jews ended up in comedy and acting. As Hollywood sprung up, they cornered that market early as well, hence their over-representation in Hollywood.

Not sure about all that, though it's a fascinating read. I haven't leaned too much into the history of comedy.

I can't really figure out how "Catholic Comedy" distinguishes itself too much from, say, Jewish comedy. Though the first Catholic comedians that come to mind for me are Bill Burr, Trey Parker, and Nick Mullen. Apparently, Bill Murray is part of the faith.

Catholic media, comedy included, seems to be defined by this extreme push and pull between libidinal psychosis and the super-ego. You'll get Scorsese making films with murder and cursing and drug use and this hedonistic revelry over the most debased forms of mankind one minute, then in the next he makes something like Silence which is a purely introspective film about the tribulations of Faith in God even when he doesn't speak to you. Hell, even in tabletop games there's a minor stereotype of the "Catholic School Kid" playing a Warlock or some other "evil wizard" class. Why does it exist? I dunno. Maybe it has something to do with Catholic Guilt. Either way, there's a "style" to Catholic media that I don't notice in protestant stuff.

The pope is more leftist than most of you bitches

>Did the exact same shit as Russia up until about 1920
>Got beaten the fuck up because the capitalist state was stronger and the conditions were different
>Follow Moscows and Beijings every instruction after they establish themselves as the communist bulwark of the world
>Never achieve success with it, grow more and more irrelevant
>Both USSR and China fall to capitalism
>Say we want to try something a bit different from what we have done from their example and instructions for the past century
>Some fucktards accuses you of being an ultra and not loving real revolution because of christianity or something
>accuses you of loving to lose despite the movement following either the comintern or maoists movement never achieving any success with it

Really makes me think.
I guess we should just, again, try to start a protracted peoples war among the rural peasantry in the Rurh for the 3rd time or something. Or redo the ML party tactics that worked in semi feudal repressive Russia and similar states but never seem to work in the west despite thousands of attempts and massive covert funding by the soviets.
Yes that must be it. We just didnt try hard enough, we should reject our previous ways (following the Soviet and Chinese examples) and follow the Soviet and Chinese examples instead!

So lets go through this waste of diskspace of an article

>There is a great tendency in the eastern left, according to Perry Anderson, to separate western and eastern Marxism. Western Marxism is basically a kind of Marxism which has, as a key characteristic, never exercised political power.
Oh. I guess these countries never existed.
>It is a Marxism that has, more and more frequently, concerned itself with philosophical and aesthetic issues. It has pulled back, for example, from criticism of political economy and the problem of the conquest of political power.
Unsubstantiated bullshit
>More and more it has taken a historic distance from the concrete experiences of socialist transition in the Soviet Union, China, Viet Nam, Cuba and so forth.
False
>This western Marxism considers itself to be superior to eastern Marxism because it hasn’t tarnished Marxism by transforming it into an ideology of the State like, for example, Soviet Marxism, and it has never been authoritarian, totalitarian or violent.
Maybe you should talk to people outside of the philosophy faculty and to people in actual parties.
>This Marxism preserves the purity of theory to the detriment of the fact that it has never produced a revolution anywhere on the face of the Earth – this is a very important point.
I guess Marx, Kautsky and all the others who wrote the fundamental texts to the Bolsheviks never produced a revolution anywhere on the face of the earth. Appearantly there is "my based marxism vs your cringe marxism that is unrelated in its entirely", except no, marxism is a single body of work. You can not arbitrarily seperate out "western marxism" on a geographic basis when we all follow the exact same tactics and read the same shit.
>Wherever a victorious socialist revolution has taken place in the West, like Cuba, it is much more closely associated with the so-called eastern Marxism than with this western Marxism produced in Western Europe, the United States, Canada and parts of South America.
[CITATION NEEDED]
>This Marxism is proud of its purity and this is the first elemental characteristic that derives from Christianity. Gramsci shows that one of the main historical concerns of the Catholic Church has been to control the reading and the diffusion of Christianity, blocking the rise and spread of popular, autonomous and base level interpretations and thereby saving the purity of the historic doctrine. Therefore, the Catholic Church can say that Christianity is love, equality, loving thy neighbor, compassion and non-violence, despite the fact that it has been a fundamental weapon in the legitimization of slavery, the crusades and colonialism, and despite the coziness of various elements of the Catholic Church with Nazi-fascism and the military dictatorships. There is a constant throughout the entire history of Christianity which is that these elements don’t corrupt the doctrine. They are either false expressions of Christianity, or they are facts, like potatoes in a sack, that have no theoretical, political or, most importantly, theological meaning. So, the fact that history denies the affirmation that Christianity is based on compassion and peace does not change or challenge the doctrine.
So, what, Stalin sending half of the Tartars on a deathmarch to Siberia is an important, inevitable part of Marxist praxis or something?
>Many Marxists act the same way. Their biggest worry is the purity of the doctrine. Every time that historical facts challenge the doctrine or show the complexity of the practical operationality of elements of the theory, they deny that these elements are part of the story of Marxist theory and doctrine.
Wow. Some things that happened are mistakes or the result of actions of incompetent of bad faith actors.
Its ironic how the author is hammering on how "western marxism" wants to keep itself pure from any deviation despite that fact that eurocommunism, bernsteinism, Yeltsin and other types of treachery are also consequences of the real praxis as it happened. But I bet the author will denounce these as "not real marxism" or "not part of my ideology" with good reason. It's almost as if it is usefull to define what is and is not part of your ideological framework.
>This is, for example, what doctrines of betrayal are built on. Every movement that appears to stray a bit from these “pure” models that were created a priori is explained through the concept of betrayal, or is explained as “state capitalism.” Therefore, nothing is socialism and everything is state capitalism.
Is this author ranting about a few online losers he found online? Most people in a marxist org in the west in real life says this shit. And they never have. Marxists have for the most part always followed the comintern or maoist directives.
>A great example of this was when the Soviet Union entered its process of terminal crisis. As the end of the Soviet Union approached many western Marxists announced that it was a great event in the history of Marxism because finally Marxism was liberated from that experiment that was born during the October Revolution, that distorted Marxism, that transformed Marxism into a mere State ideology. Now, without having to explain the ball and chain of the Soviet Union, Marxism could finally be liberated and reach its emancipatory potential.
This is just an outright lie, falsification of history. If this author seriously thinks that western marxists celebrated the collapse of the soviet union, maybe they should go outside of their dorm and stop talking to whatever weird tiny Trot cult they hang out around.
>Everyone today likes Salvador Allende. Why? Salvador Allende is a victim, a martyr. He was assassinated in Pinochet’s coup d’ etat. When Hugo Chavez was alive, many sectors of the left turned their nose up at him. If he had been killed, for example, in the 2002 Coup attempt, he would be adored by the immense majority of the western left today, as a symbol of suffering and martyrdom.
People talk about Allende because he is an example of the open hypocrisy of liberal democracy. He followed all the rules they tell us to follow and still ended up dead. He isn't talked about because "he never made any mistakes". It does help when trying to convince non marxists of the nature of the capitalist state because there isnt any active anti-allende propaganda nor can it be easily manufactured. He is a propaganda icon, that is what Martyrdom is for, the same happens in the middle east, btw, for the weirdly orientalizing author.

>Jones Manoel is a historian
Ah there it is. History schools, academics, Trot central, where all ideology needs to be framed in a bourgoies friendly manner because it would cost you your job if you actually were in the normal communist parties of the west. I wonder why the author has such a false picture of the wester marxist movement.

This article is complete garbage. Not only is it factually incorrect, not only does the author not understand what the use of martyrdom is or why communist parties like to talk about martyrs, the author paints a complete falsification of history that will misinform anyone has not actually read about or talked to members of the reality of the marxist movement over the past 40 years.

If you read this and think it is correct, you are probably terminally online and never set foot in or talked to people from Marxist orgs.

>>16015
didn't even read the article before I started shitposting tbh
But I will now
Bet you feel stupid now
Also didn't read your post

>>16015
>If you read this and think it is correct, you are probably terminally online and never set foot in or talked to people from Marxist orgs.
(or you are from outside the west, in which case, do not believe this article)

>>16015
>Oh. I guess these countries never existed.
Forgot pic

>>15977
I've never heard and "eastern marxists" say these things about "western marxists". In fact all the good criticisms of Dengism I've read has been from the Philipines, India,…

>>16018
What do dengists think about Yugoslavia?

>>16020
What does that have to do with any of this?

>>16020
Shut up man or I will deploy anti-pseud measures

absolute state

>>16006
State and church is complex business.

If the City lay people were to abandon the political body and all the houses surrounding their church, & all sleep within the cathedral, and all men become clergymen, and all women nuns, and all male children altar boys, and all female children did menial tasks: and the townspeople slept in the church pews, the City would soon be dilapidated.

The City portions land out for the Church. The Church helps the body-politic in return with domestic affairs like marriage and the burial and civil peace in moral upbringing of citizens.

Like a Spanish peasant remarked, without the Church they bury you like a dog.

The problem with Catholicism & Clericalism in juxtaposition to the Body-Politic and Nationalism, they gradually morph into an Anti-Politics.

This is why in the rightwing circles, some of the clerical rightwingers mingle with the right libertarians & anarcho-capitalists. They both see that it is within their interest to decrease public services and hold private services like promote private schools (because public schools are secular). The COVID-19 pandemic & govt agencies making a pretext of social distancing to regulate church gatherings. They see civil marriages under the regulation of the City. They see immigration of diverse peoples into the civil fold, that in order to facilitate civil peace in the naturalization process, the diverse peoples should either be pushed into conformity or allowed to practice their religions under the pretext of secularism & multiculturalism.

In the past, the Church had much more institutional power and agency in the political realm: responsible for hospitals, higher learning and education of the youth, their jurisdiction, land and wealth, & sway over public opinion.

In the present, there is a higher demand for public healthcare, public education, nationalization, and public opinion is relegated to television and the Internet.

They will say that when Twitter banned Donald Trump, it was like him being excommuinicated – but Twitter and many other social media and television are still in subordination to political authority and propaganda.

Everywhere they look now the political authority is at odds with the Church: and if it allows the supremacy of the political state, the church will be coerced to conform to the temporal order of politics. The religious right anticipates this in the creeping LGBT movement and modernity in the Church.

It's not separation of church and state they want (or spiritual & temporal domains respectively) or the union of these powers (sword & crosier in the same hand) or an endorsement to participate in the supremacy of State (like clerical fascism). It is the supremacy of the church over state & clergy over the lay people. It follows then they make two cities (city of god and city of man) and two swords (spiritual sword and temporal sword) and two bodies (body of christ and body-politic).

Many traditionalists sympathize with theocracies and caste systems with spiritual authority supreme.

Protestantism and national churches has a communal spirit with the lay people. It has the notion of a Christian republic and a democratic religiosity.

The Orthodox try to maintain a harmonious relationship between civil & spiritual authority. Yet I think the Orthodox like the Catholics think a union would lead to too much conformity with the temporal world. That is why Putin ridiculed the Church of England about gender pronouns for God.

Catholicism has always been at odds with political authority since the Investiture Controversy and Reformation and Enlightenment. The clerical fascists are an odd bird in those circles: the clerical fascists realize that political authority is necessary for the maintenance of public order (since the Church only has the lay people every Sunday, but the State and civil affairs has people everyday, at work, at the cinema, at television, at all the other buildings of the City and so on). Integralism and Clerical Fascists seek to resolve this in slightly different ways. The former calls for more subordination of the State to Church whereas the latter acknowledges the supremacy of State but invites the Church into that supremacy, following ᴉuᴉlossnW who said, All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state. Though I make a slight distinction between integralism and clerical fascism, the former integralism in a way positions the Church like an ideal for the City: as it is still the city, sword, and body held aloft as ideals to follow in each example and becomes a moral compass for the City in attaining its own perfection.

The integralists and petty royalist factions like the Carlists appreciate subsidiary theory for the benefit of the clergy and nobility. Advocating decentralization and intermediaries.

The Hoppeans and von Hallerists also advocate a Europe of a Thousand Liechtensteins and patrimonialism. Anticipating this would decrease State power and privatization across the board. Like the opposite of clerical fascists, the church would participate in this privatization (whereas the church participates in nationalization / nationalism of the clerical fascists).

All these factions are wonky.

>To assert that he was the "first among equals" as is the Orthodox Tradition is to assert that he's equally subordinate to the Imperial State
The notion of "first among equals" also undermines the notion of the Pope being a universal monarch for all Christendom. To consider the Pope as first among equals is to consider the seat of Rome equal: A monarch wants his throne to stand supreme and alone: the first among equals mentality considers the Pope merely as another member of a board among chairmen.

Maybe Orthodox Russia and the holy synod prepared the Left for Party Leadership as that was like a committee and board & the autocracy of the Tsars. For example, there is a story of the Trans-Siberian Railway of many proposing to lead the railway through many establishments and towns, but the Tsar was able to draw it like a rigid straight line. Such supreme political power was a pretext could shape the land.

>And so throughout medieval Europe, you have the Papacy holding enough sway to play a Kingmaker in political disputes and be a genuine force in continental politics, but no State ever assert dominance over the entirety of Christendom (and thus subordinate the Pope.)
Hobbes remarked that the place of the Pope in Europe was the Ghost of Rome, standing over the grave thereof.

Unable to exert the temporal authority of the Roman Emperors by right of the sword or conquest.

It should be noted that the highly decentralized and divided Germany of the Holy Roman Empire was a hotbed for Reformation. Where so many princes held sway among equals, like that (in)famous map of the HRE, so also many Protestant denominations could flourish divided and atomized and decentralized. This undermined the Pope in the end where political bodies were so divided, the Church, united, would be a house divided.

Leftists also suffer from sectarianism and factionalism, so State-NGO partisanship has its limits, especially if the State (where all the civil relationships are constituted) suddenly becomes divided.

Not even in the ideological battlefield is ideological purity safeguarded.

>If anything, I think the shadows of Catholic traditions and practices made it easier for the Left to grow, in no small part, because individuals were willing to submit to an outside authority in the form of The Party or Moscow rather than individualized interpretations of Text
Yet Spain and Italy didn't follow suit and succumbed to Fascism.

Maybe for Latin America this is exceptional, but Latin America was also home to many revolutionary leaders breaking away from Spain and embracing republicanism.

Russia was an Orthodox, so Moscow as an example for Catholic traditions is not accurate. In fact, the Russian Emperors instituted the Holy Synod. If anything, the Left has benefited from political supremacy (which allows them to become powerful arbiters for land reform and with a broad stroke shape the public conscience) – & another example of how political supremacy is Henry VIII in dissolving the monasteries and wealth redistribution therein. – The Left is also much more conscious of the ordinary people and critical of hierarchy, like the Protestants for the lay people and critical of church hierarchy. The Party is also seeking to coalesce all the Partisans for their public consciousness: to make the supreme arbiter of The People – advocates political education for the masses and class consciousness and takes into great consideration their consciousness and thoughts – this is much more egalitarian in nature than the Church hierarchy of Catholicism.

Political supremacy and the secular tradition became a basis for the common good to be established.

>because individuals were willing to submit to an outside authority in the form of The Party or Moscow rather than individualized interpretations of Text
The key term is individualized, but the Left is still of the Text – except for a collective class consciousness. For example, the Chinese holding little red books–& what would leftism be without the writings of Marx or Lenin?

>Before, Catholic Doctrine could regulate the most ambitious aims of kings
That is surmised, but the Pope also had to forward the ambitions of kings – like dividing the New World between the Catholic Empires and giving it to Spain and the other lands to the imperial ambitions of Portugal.

>>16013
One month bump to say this lol

>>16024
*Integralism & Clericalism resents that it isn't the State. but consigned to be partners at best

It would like a return to when the Church had effectively been the State, not a NGO, but the kingpin of empires.

With control of the media and higher education, with public healthcare in their control, and Catholic social doctrines.

>>16025
sí, claro

bump for relevance

>>15977
I don't disagree with anything in the article OP posted and in fact that author is not even the first person to make the point that western Marxism is heavily influenced by Christianity, and what Nietzsche would call "slave morality". Partly this is also an attempt to turn a negative into a positive as western Marxism (including latin America, arguably) is full of communists being crushed and therefore there is an instinct to valorize defeat and dream of what could have been. the German revolution of 1918, Allende's Chile, etc. have the same draw in the mind that the Battle of Thermopylae, the Alamo, and the Confederate lost cause do on the right.

Where I do object to this argument is it being used in favor of revisionism, as there is a long history of figures within "eastern" Marxism criticizing eastern Marxism and ML from the inside, especially as it relates to Modern china. Was Mao, raised in China on confucian classics, infected by "western christianity" when he criticized the capitalist roaders? no, it turns out he was quite correct to do so as the capitalist roaders actually won in the long run, moving China to a market economy and creating a new bourgeoisie, many of whom inhabit the party apparatus itself.

Western marxism, is indeed too influenced by christian thought, but that can't become a reason to dismiss all western (or any) criticism of Dengism in the modern day. That's really just the Marxist version of radlibs who claim black people are ontologically incapable of being racist. This is really more of an analysis of the mindset of people who criticize revolutions for being "insufficiently pure", it says nothing about whether those criticisms are actually correct or not.

>>16028
stop necrobumping

>>16029
>stop
No

Not many people can resist the draw of crucifixion
It's not like I can't relate. Still like the article.

The only difference between Martyrdom and Suicide is press coverage

Remember weakness is not a virtue, when I see God I'm gonna break their nose.

>>16014
Okay but who asked you little man

>>16031
is this the title of a panic at the disco song or something

>>16034
It's actually Chuck Palahniuk

>>16017
nothing about this article is wrong tho, western marxist do infact prefer crushed revolutions over these that succeeded and have to compromise with their material realities or die, nor it has produced any revolutions, every single one that succeed toke influence from countries outside US-NATO region's theoretical thought, that instantly started to demonize them from not being communist enough.

>>16018
>But muh warsaw pact, Muh USSR.
they were called the Eastern bloc for a reason champ.

>>16032
Sorry to break it to you, but God doesn't have a nose to break. Instead, God as we know it is a being beyond human comprehension similar to an Eldrich Cosmic Horror that has a cult of Millions of followers.

>>16037
i read this in xavier renegade angel's voice

Kill christcucks

>>15999
so true sister
the nordic countries are clearly doing socialism better than the USSR

>>16036
>western marxist do infact prefer crushed revolutions over these that succeeded and have to compromise with their material realities or die, nor it has produced any revolutions, every single one that succeed toke influence from countries outside US-NATO region's theoretical thought, that instantly started to demonize them from not being communist enough.
Then you must not talk to any actually organising marxists because I've never met a western marxist who is doing the actual work who prefers failed states over the real examples.

>>16041
>Then you must not talk to any actually organising marxists because I've never met a western marxist who is doing the actual work who prefers failed states over the real examples.
So not they western marxists then, or you think PSL and Zizek are the same ?.

>muh East vs West
Isn't this mode of thinking just repackaged orientalism? I mean it's a westerner making these arguments, and he keeps referencing other westerners like Gramsci. His contact with "Eastern Marxism" is through Western writers describing it, as if there's some kind of holistic tendency in common between countries as different as the USSR, China, Vietnam, The Philippines, India, etc…
>Western Marxism is basically a kind of Marxism which has, as a key characteristic, never exercised political power.
>Wherever a victorious socialist revolution has taken place in the West, like Cuba, it is much more closely associated with the so-called eastern Marxism than with this western Marxism
I guess it wasn't REAL western Marxism?
>Every movement that appears to stray a bit from these “pure” models that were created a priori is explained through the concept of betrayal, or is explained as “state capitalism.” Therefore, nothing is socialism and everything is state capitalism. Nothing is socialist transition and everything is state capitalism.
It was Lenin who described the USSR as doing "state capitalism" as an intermediary step in transition. This wasn't a concept that was pulled out of nowhere. The criticism of it was always about a failure to move through the transitional phase, getting stuck there. Obviously there's a lot to argue about in that space, but this dude isn't even
>People become ecstatic looking at those images – which I don’t think are very fantastic – of a child or teenager using a sling to launch a rock at a tank. Look, this is a clear example of heroism but it is also a symbol of barbarism.
So is he doing a bit here (speaking in an affected style of a western chauvinist) or is he just actually being racist? People also appreciate Vietnam resisting the west, particularly the image of Viet Cong guerillas making do with minimal resources. At this point it's starting to feel like the author doesn't like people he perceives as weak.
>When the country was finally able to beat all of the colonial and neocolonial powers and have the opportunity to start planning, to build highways, electrical systems, schools and universities without having bombs land on them the next day and destroy everything that was being done, the country was abandoned by the majority of the left. It lost its charm, it lost its enchantment.
Or it stopped being besieged by foreign militaries??? Vietnam doesn't need westoids to come tell them how to build roads, but if western leftists can make fighting a war over there harder to manage politically then that actually could be useful.
>Therefore, the process of rebuilding a revolutionary Marxism in the West has to recognize these symbolic elements, which have become ingrained in Western Marxism, that were smuggled in as contraband from Christianity. These elements have to be submitted to radical criticism and surpassed.
Wow that sounds fascinating. I wish I had read an article that actually explored this topic instead of whining and making generalizations about when someone did or did not "give support" (express the correct opinions).

There's genuinely an important discussion to be had here (about the influence of Christianity, about purity politics, etc) but this article gets way too bogged down in "clash of civilizations" type idiocy. The author is too interested in doing the Uno Reverse Card thing with ascribing too much to religion and culture because as a westoid himself his brain is full of the very spooks he's trying to criticize. But when you lump all of "western" and all of "eastern" Marxisms together it's very easy to cherry pick all the bad examples or all the good examples and conglomerate them into a platonic ideal that doesn't actually exist anywhere. It's coming up with an archetype and then engaging in confirmation bias. The only "western Marxists" he actually cites as his bad examples are Slavoj Zizek, a professor he doesn't even name… and that's it. He does however repeatedly cite westerners like Gramsci or Losurdo positively to build his argument.

Any political movement is indelibly shaped by its context, and painting with such a broad brush as West vs East ignores both the differences within and similarities between them. In other words, all this form of criticism has to offer is sowing further division in the global communist movement. Such divisions are produced in the first place by capitalism, but it's the job of communists to address these divisions, not to uphold them. This is the type of discourse one gets into in hyper-polarized spaces, usually online, especially somewhere like twitter.

>>16040
Both China and the Nordic countries are doing better than communist counties that got snuffed out by the CIA, because they managed to not get snuffed out by the CIA while still keeping their planned economies and will be able to become fully communist when RoP 0 hits. They're playing the long game.

>>16039
so true bestie

uyghas on Leftypol go shit on Zizek and University "The USSR and others where not true socialism because they did not do everything thing marx said to do, they also where authoritarian !", then gets mad when someone points out this is bullshit is a thought line born from western university intellectuals that are popular in spreading it such as zizek and not every fucking marxist in general born in the west.

>>16047
But I don't see you eating out the garbage can of Ideology now are you?

>>16043
> I mean it's a westerner making these arguments
<it's a guy from Brazil

nice try gardener

>>16047
*go shit on Zizek and university marxists for saying
**when someone points out this is bullshit, this is a thought line born from westerner university marxist intellectuals.
never huff paint and type.

>>16049
Brazil is objectively western, along with Cuba, that's why it makes no sense to put the class conflict in terms of occident and orient anyway. If you want to specifically call out Marxists in NATO and Japan then do so by name.

>>16051
this is the west (blue)

>>16052
It makes no sense to call it The West, and why the fuck is Turkey in red when it's not only a NATO country but it's second largest army. A much better name for the countries in Blue would be The Cartel, it's much more descriptive and accurate than "the west".

>>16053
>It makes no sense to call it The West,
wait, you are learning it just now that what is the west and what makes the east makes it no sense ?, and is in fact a dogwhistle by the owners of said west to denominate their allies and their enemies ?.

>>16053
>turkey is in NATO
only because of a coup back when the US wanted to stage missiles there (the true beginning of the cuban missile crisis)

also turkey has always been the NATO wild card

>>16053
i call it the walled world

>>16015
>People talk about Allende because he is an example of the open hypocrisy of liberal democracy.
People talk about Allende because he along with Jakarta prove that "authoritarian communism" is necessary. Venezuela proved this correct again recently from the other side.

>>16043
> as if there's some kind of holistic tendency in common between countries as different as the USSR, China, Vietnam, The Philippines, India,

There is they all adhere to forms marxism-leninism, where western marxism is about "democratic/libertarian socialism" or "analytical marxism" that explicitly reject democratic centralism, dictatorship of the proletariat, dialectics, and Lenin.


>>16051
>Brazil is objectively western, along with Cuba,

it sounds like you are autistically getting mad and these labels not literally being a reference to cardinal directions, as if your problem is that australia can't be part of the global north so you reject conversations about imperialism

>>16038
I clapped
I clapped when I recognized Xavier as an avatar of the insane prophet

>>16052
The North

>>16059
Whiteoids and friends/honorary aryans.

>>16052
>>16056
Basically:

Europe, the slavic toiler scrubbers, Anglo colonies, and the Asian vassals.

>>16053
Turkey is also in Europe by some definitions, but they're Muslims, so can't really be Euros.

>>15994
Cedric Robinson's anthropology of marxism is good at this topic.

>>16008
Again, thoughtless. Most people in America are not comfortable.
If you go in thinking that baristas are the labor aristocracy like the retards on this website, sure, you won't know what to say to them other than "I love gays and the homeless" and they'll be like, that's great man, it's your turn to mop :)

>>16062
So are Bosnia and Albania you dumb mother fucker

>>16065
I'm speaking relatively of course. Revolutions only happen when conditions become intolerable for a critical mass of people, and it shouldn't be hard to see why fewer people in the Global North find conditions intolerable. There are many suffering people still of course, especially in the US, and these are the people we are going to need to reach. However it's clear that the majority of workers in the imperial core are not currently receptive to radical socialist ideas. I think this will change in the coming decades as the last vestiges of the postwar compromise are eaten away along with Western hegemony, but as of right now it's still a major obstacle.

>>16067
>Revolutions only happen when conditions become intolerable for a critical mass of people
Intolerability is relative to present needs, though, and present needs are social and historically determinate, not some biological or absolute baseline. The more needs there are to be met (in terms of both amount and diversity), the system for meeting those needs becomes more stretched and more fragile, all else being equal.

Of course, all else generally isn't equal because countervailing tendencies to this exist in the expansion of trade, technological improvements, etc., yet it's the very same capacity to meet many different needs that introduces instability when these needs can no longer be met after a serious disruption to elements of this system. The instability doesn't automatically imply the left will benefit, but there is a moment in this that can be seized.

>>16067
>Revolutions only happen when conditions become intolerable for a critical mass of people
>CONDITIONS MUST WORSEN
How's that going for Joma Sison? Conditions are pretty shit in the Philippines. Oh yeah, he died having accomplished nothing. Whoops.

>>16069
the Philippines has the ultimate opiate of fhe masses tho. imagine being one of the poorest countries in Asia but then having one of the biggest consumer centers in the entire world. Filipinos are an absolutely cucked people and i can't wait until they find their dignity again.

>>15977
I've read this before

It's extremely idealist

>>16069
>Oh yeah, he died having accomplished nothing.
The NPA is active throughout nearly the whole country and even outright controls parts of it. The struggle has also been escalating. They're far more successful than even most third world communists, let alone their first world counterparts.
>>16068
>Intolerability is relative to present needs, though, and present needs are social and historically determinate, not some biological or absolute baseline.
Of course, and this is the double edged sword of the relative prosperity of the first world worker. It makes them more complacent, but it also means that their standards of what is tolerable are higher.

>>16074
>people who cling to reified notions like "east" and "west" lecturing others about thought-terminating cliches
cool

>>16073
Thank you for debunking this revisionist claptrap!
It is well-known the NPA has been transitioning out of the strategic defensive. In another 60 years they should be in the strategic offensive. 🫡 Please do not investigate the history of the CPP's interactions with other filipino communists or ethnic chinese filipinos.

>>16076
>In another 60 years they should be in the strategic offensive
As opposed to every other communist party in opposition in the world, who are on the verge of taking power right? Relatively speaking, the NPA are one of the most successful opposition communist movements in the world. Only the CPI-Marxist really comes close.

>>16077
Not even comparable to the CPI(M). And really that's the only example you can think of. This site lmao

>>16078 (me)
The CPP's success is measured by what, sticking around?

>>16057
>There is they all adhere to forms marxism-leninism, where western marxism is about "democratic/libertarian socialism" or "analytical marxism" that explicitly reject democratic centralism, dictatorship of the proletariat, dialectics, and Lenin.
There are plenty of MLs in the west. Why are western MLs unable to achieve anything if adhering to marxism-leninism is the key?

>>16078
What opposition communist party is more successful?

>>16081
Name one success of the CPP.

>>16064
The foreword just makes this seem anti-Marxist, saying that socialism existed before Marx and will exist after Marx. It apparently puts the "socialist impulse" at the center of its analysis which sounds very idealist.

>>16082
Having an armed presence throughout nearly the entire country and outright controlling parts of it, forming the basis of a state within a state. What other opposition communist party has been able to accomplish this?

>>16084
Same old bullshit. It's going nowhere.

The only reason there's even a western CPP propaganda presence is because the feds here are schizos and get into the most retarded obscure tendencies over geopolitical shit. You don't see other communist parties trying to make inroads with YPG types.

>>16085
That applies to literally the entire communist movement Anon. Almost like the death of the USSR ushered in the era of blackest reaction or something. Still doesn't change the fact that among a movement that is on the whole severely weakened, the NPA is one of the most resilient and successful forces.

>>16086
Incoherent

>>16087
They take potshots and put out press releases anon. It's hilarious these are your idols. I'm not going to go through a list of stuff that gives me hope in the world to hear what your dumb ass has to say about it. I was just confirming my suspicions this is yet another case of [guy looking at wikipedia map of NPA activity]: WOW

>>16088
>>16086
you might even say… GPT
Why wouldn't glowies have bots set up to spit out random nonsense against communist movements any time they're mentioned?

>>16090
>It's hilarious these are your idols.
<If you are sympathetic to a movement then you idolize them
Lol
>I'm not going to go through a list of stuff that gives me hope in the world
Come on Anon, sure you can name a single communist party in opposition you consider more successful than the CPP right? You aren't just some armchair idealist right?

>>16088
>>16089
The NPA laligns with the Marcos comprador regime and the United States on geopolitical issues. They've already been diverted away from their own revolutionary struggle into attacking China.

People here will talk about material conditions all day long but when it comes to the failure of the western left they suddenly become the most crass idealists possible. Nothing is ever due to material conditions, everything is due to either moral failing or wrong ideas. Is all this East vs. West posting a glowop or are people here really that inconsistent in applying their own stated framework?

also how many people posting this shit are just self-hating westoids

>>16092
You seriously don't know any other successful opposition communist parties? Kind of racist anon tbqhbbq

>>16093
The primary people they get into potshots with are the Marcos regime you bad faith motherfucker

>>16095
Oh yes saboanon is famously a Filipino chauvinist

>>16093 (me)
And yes I already heard the whine about the military aid to Duterte. That wasn't about the CPP, that was about ISIS, a tit for tat exchange meant to deescalate a potential war in the south china sea. I don't think it was worth it, duterte balked soon after.
But acting like diplomacy is a sworn vendetta against some random third party that feels aggrieved is schizo.
>>16096
Would be sad to waste that effort anon! Of course they are chiefly in conflict with the govt. Chinese companies if you look at Peru and other places are extremely sensitive to local disapproval and don't require an assault that just so happens to work in tandem with YS sanctions https://archive.ph/2020.10.19-204708/https://www.benarnews.org/english/news/philippine/Philippine-communists-Chinese-firms-10142020135808.html

>>16093
Meanwhile in reality the CPP is waging armed struggle against one of the most important US comprador regimes, and explicitly condemns the efforts of the US to use their country as a staging ground for war with China.

>>16099
>the Radio Free Asia interview with Sison remains invisible to him
wow that's new, this has only happened every single other time i've brought it up

>>16100
>I believe RFA when it suits me
Lmao

>>16101
You're not very bright, are you? Did you read the article?

The urge to AI generate Sison on Joe Rogan has come over me

>>16102
>Did you read the article by a CIA mouthpiece?
Lmao
Meanwhile, here's the CPP's actual position:
>The Communist Party of the Philippines (CPP) condemns the imperialist US for war-mongering and heightening war-preparations against China and for using the Philippines and other countries as launching pad for its planned military attacks against its rival imperialist power.
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Oppose US plan to use Philippines in war strategy against China
POLITICS
Marco Valbuena | Chief Information Officer | Communist Party of the Philippines
January 14, 2023

This article is available in Pilipino

The Communist Party of the Philippines (CPP) condemns the imperialist US for war-mongering and heightening war-preparations against China and for using the Philippines and other countries as launching pad for its planned military attacks against its rival imperialist power.

In an interview by the Financial Times a few days ago (“US military deepens ties with Japan and Philippines to prepare for China threat”), the imperialist hooligan Lt. Gen. James Bierman, who is the commanding general of the US armed forces’ Third Marine Expeditionary Force (III MEF) and Marine Forces Japan, revealed explicitly how the US has long been planning to set the stage for war against China, comparing it to the many years of preparations they made in Ukraine:

Why have we achieved the level of success we’ve achieved in Ukraine? A big part of that has been because after Russian aggression in 2014 and 2015, we earnestly got after preparing for future conflict: training for the Ukrainians, pre-positioning of supplies, identification of sites from which we could operate support, sustain operations.

We call that setting the theatre. And we are setting the theatre in Japan, in the Philippines, in other locations.

>These statements of General Bierman are typical of the gross arrogance of the US imperialists in its relentless push to establish its global hegemony in its desperation to counteract its strategic economic decline. It regards with contempt the sovereignty of the Philippines and other countries. It treats its so-called “allies” as mere pawns in its imperialist game of chess to encircle its super-power rival China.

>In line with the Pentagon strategy of encircling China and prepositioning its forces within the so-called first-island chain, the US continues to build up its military presence in Japan, Korea, Singapore and the Philippines where it maintains military bases, and ruling governments are subservient to US interests.

>Late last year, the Marcos government declared plans to allow the US military to add five more locations chosen by the US to construct its military facilities within existing or to be constructed military camps of the Armed Forces of the Philippines: two in Cagayan province, and one each in Isabela, Zambales and Palawan. These are in addition to the military facilities which the US has already constructed in five camps of the AFP under the Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement (EDCA). It is believed that in addition to prepositioning weapons, the US plans to construct ground-to-air missile systems in these facilities, which will have the advantage of being guarded by Philippine military forces under the EDCA.

>The construction of these military facilities in the Philippines form part of the heightening war provocations against China which include increased presence of American naval forces in the western and eastern Philippine seas, in the eastern Japanese seaboard and in the Taiwanese strait. The US continues to challenge the One China Policy (Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan) as the pivot of its strategy of provoking China to “own the starting pistol” in order to justify an all-out war against China.
>The Filipino people must firmly oppose the plans of the US to use the Philippines as a military launching pad and draw the country to its theater of war against China. They must amplify their clamor against imperialist war preparations and demand deescalation of military tensions.
https://philippinerevolution.nu/statements/oppose-us-plan-to-use-philippines-in-war-strategy-against-china/

>cites Radio Free Asia
>calls others glowies
lightyears beyond parody

>>16105
>>16104
>not even questioning why the CPP is giving interviews to Radio Free Asia
uh oh, damage control mode 😁

>>16106
Frankly I'm not even convinced that this interview really happened, since its printed in a CIA propaganda outlet and it's content directly contradicts statements put put by the party itself. But sure, if you want to take literal CIA propaganda at face value feel free.

>>16107
LMFAO

>>16108
You're right Anon, the CIA would never lie about something like that.

>>16109
If only there were some way for the CPP to distance themselves from these statements.

>>16110
You mean like their statement condemning the use of the Philippines by the US as a staging ground for China? Seriously Anon, you have on the one hand a CIA outlet claiming that the CPP believes one thing, while the CPP's own outlet is openly calling for the opposite. Do you really have to think hard about who to trust between the CIA and communists?

>>16111
What makes you think they consider these statements mutually exclusive
Okay look I'm just abusing people on the board again, let's compromise. Maybe Sison was HYPNOTIZED!

I'm going to kill God
is the first line in my application letter

>>16112
>What makes you think they consider these statements mutually exclusive
Because they are. You can't on the one hand call for an alliance with pro-US elements while simultaneously calling for US influence to be expelled.

>>16113
I hear there's a major Godkiller shortage. Nobody wants to attack and dethrone anymore, I guess. :/

>>16114
They're not calling for an alliance with US forces in the interview are they? It's an oppose all forms of imperialism type thing. Sorry if I'm being confusing. I had to find out that there was crossover with US sanctions in other articles.
If the CPP organizes a road block for some international mainland owned Chinese company I will support it, like I said it's just dismaying to me to outright attack them when I've seen them stop work immediately and parlay in other countries.

>>16110
>If only the CPC would distance themselves from statement on <openly false constantly fabricating propaganda filthsite>
>If they don't denounce this specific fake news story that nobody cares about except this one division sowing, orientalist, litterally who brasilian dude, it must mean it is true
retarded

>>16117
You're pretending Radio Free Asia is obscure? Interesting, that's the opposite tactic of the last person who went into denial about the significance of this. Their point was Radio Free Asia has so much reach that Sison had no choice but to do the interview. The CPP will denounce random people on Facebook and call for their death. They didn't call this interview out as fake, you're completely schizo.

>>16118
>The CPP will denounce random people on Facebook and call for their death
Source

>>16119
>>16120
>they just read the press releases
this site is so fucking boring

>>16118
>The CPP will denounce random people on Facebook and call for their death.
Communist Party of the Philippines?

>>16121
leave then

>>16123
If you never got sent death threats by Sison, you just weren't posting very hard. Sorry.

https://www.redspark.nu/en/peoples-war/philippines/cpp-support-and-emulate-the-russian-mass-demonstrations/
>CPP: Support And Emulate The Russian Mass Demonstrations
>January 25, 2021
>All democracy-loving people must support and emulate the mass protest actions in Russia against the Putin fascist regime, particularly against the plans of the dictator to extend his power by seeking a third term.
>Hundreds of thousands of people, with a large contingent of youth, are courageously protesting in the streets of Moscow and other cities despite violent suppression by state police and despite freezing temperatures in some cities reaching -50 degrees celsius. More than 2,500 have been arrested.
>Protests were sparked by the arrest and imprisonment by the fascist regime of its critic and opposition leader Alexei Navalny. Navalny just arrived home from Germany where he underwent treatment after being poisoned in jail by the FSB (the Russian Federal Security Service, counterpart of the US CIA ).
>But the real demand of the Russian masses is the ouster of the dictator Putin. They are fed up with the corruption of the Russian bureaucrats under Putin, who are in connivance with the big capitalists and criminal syndicates. Russia ranks fourth among the countries with the highest cases of Covid-19 due to the government’s failure.
>Like the Filipino people, the people of Russia are oppressed under a tyrannical, corrupt and criminal regime. Vladimir Putin has remained in power for more than 20 years using state terror to silence or liquidate anyone who resists. Duterte openly idolizes Putin and mimics his methods of clinging to power through all-out state terrorism.
>The Filipino people must emulate the Russian masses in their show of determination to fight for freedom and democratic rights under a repressive tyranny. The Filipino masses must act in their numbers to fight all forms of repression and all attempts of Duterte to extend his power using different tactics such as “cha-cha” or having his ambitious daughter Sara seat in his throne in 2022.

>>16117
>>16122
>>16124
Hey guys, sorry I'm late. So, what did they mean by this?

>>16125
Uphold Marxism-Leninism-Maoism-Navalnism!

Article is quite correct.
>This is just egg head jibber jabber to say their brains are stuck in books. If it exists outside the code, it must be scrutinized. If it doesn't match the code it must be wrong. There is no *relational* thinking, no *active* thinking, no *intuitive* thinking in the western left.
>Of the many problems with western Marxists, the most damning is the demand for definitions or quotes from scripture to validate their subjectivities, using it as a cope due to their ineptitude to actively think, to use intuition, or analyze the living essence of the real moment.
>Even when they think they're being intuitive, their conclusions and real, functional stances reveal their incompetence to understand real life phenomenon - such as having political lines not too different than the liberal-imperialist democratic establishment.
>

On Laicism:
I am like a crucifix
Not allowed in schools anymore

>>16006
>>16007
local monk ruins everything

It's not just that specific fetish either. Most pure leftists in the west talk about communism like it's the end times. Like some great rapture-like event.
I think a lot of people can't differentiate between eschatology and politics. For these people I recommend the Baháʼí Faith just from a quick look.

Remember, little lambs
The only way to be closer to god
Is to engage in blasphemy

there are an embarrassingly high number of people in this thread being catty and passive-aggressive over a very mundane fact about western attempts at socialism. grow the fuck up and learn to take and effectively internalize constructive criticism, thank you

Another day of stomping on religious beliefs. Life can be so simple.

>>16052
>Belarus
Lol

Guess who's back, back again

Do not fear the reaper but welcome him.
Amor fati, y'all

Oh young folk —
if you fear death,
die now!
Having died once
you won't die again.

>>16125
It's ironic that this is being posted in this thread to discredit the CPP, since doing so is literally a manifestation of the very same purity fetish that OP's article criticizes. Sure, the CPP has some shit takes on Russia and China. So? How is that relevant? They don't operate in either of those countries. They operate in the Phillipines, which is a US comprador regime against which 99% of their actual activities are directed. If you disavow the leading anti-US force in the Phillipines because of their views on a country they have no presence or influence in, then you're engaging in the same kind of purity politics as the average western anarchist. It doesn't matter what they think about Russia's domestic politics, what matters is their activities in the Phillipines, which are overwhelmingly directed against US imperialism and working towards the establishment of an anti-imperialist, socialist government in that country. The cure to the purity fetish is to base our politics in terms of aligned interests rather than ideological conformity on every issue. It's also incredibly ironic that people find it easier to stomach an imperfect anti-communist government like Putin's than they do an imperfect communist movement like the CPP.

May his light shine upon you all

I had some witty statement but I got distracted and forgot. Whatever

>>16138
Real lmao

If Jesus then gay

Who is more irredeemable? The religious or the ultras/liberals?

>>16144
Same picture

Glowop thread

>>16000
Which they failed to adapt to hence they are NOT better. Fuck off trot

>>16128
>We communists do not castrate our children
This guy has children? Funny joke

>>16133
Are you irony poisoned? Because you're not supposed to make comparisons to religion.

>>16149
To speak to the religious you have to put it in religious terms. This goes for everyone from the Marx cultist (that has no understanding of Marx) to the anti-idpol leftoid (that has not even an understanding of progress).

>>16002
>>15997
Being a communist in the periphery is more dangerous (in that we generally face more overt violence), but this has not diminished the martyrdom urges. Turkey especially has martyrdom brainworms in our communist movements (I can write a lot about how the fundamental cultural superstructure of Turkey is based on martyrdom)

I don't think it's Christianity (or Islam, which is also big on martyrdom if in a slightly different way) that's the main culprit, though they are certainly factors. It's failure. Facing repeated failure and heartbreak can drive one to suicidality and hopelessness, which causes a religious mindset that seeks to derive meaning from death, even without the trappings of conventional religion. I don't think Delescluze was thinking about Jesus when he climbed on top of the barricade to be shot by the soldiers, he was rather hoping his death would be a symbol. Is this in a way related to Christianity? Probably, but the fact that this is not solely contained to Christian societies points to deeper cause.

You need to abolish commodity form even before revolution has ended or youre a revisionist.

>>16153
A few leftist musicians in a band died after long death strikes for getting their friends released and their songs unbanned, in 2020. There also was that man who went on hunger strike to get the corpse of his guerilla son back for burial, which succeeded, that was in 2017. They do happen still, generally on more specific issues, but the main way a communist would martyr themselves here would be to "go up the mountains" and take up arms. That might not sound like being indicative of martyr instincts, but it is when you know you'll die, y'know?

I support any form of mental anguish that the western left/white left (whatever that means) to these people. Hew and cry, seethe even over the tradition of the ruthless critism of all that exists going back to Marx, rather than the ruthless defence of the next nationalist, conservative bonapartist regime that these nitwits are slobbering over.

I will always recommend the Baha'i Faith to recovering western leftists and I will keep recommending it.

>>16155
the point of the critic is to change something, not be a snowflake going about the ruthless critic of all and get comfortable doing nothing but emerge in their own smug intellectual feces like the western left has show to only want to do.

>>16154
I know. I was just shitposting. In europe we refer to hunger strikes in which you take vitamine/sugar water to prolongue the strike as a 'Turkish style hunger strike' as it has been popularized by comrades there, strikes often going hundreds of days rather than the usual tens of days, although I am sure you know that.

I live in Europe and have had good comrades travel to and die for the cause. Personally i find the martyrdom culture really problematic, It kind of makes me sick to see comrades known and loved to be turned in to nothing but 'martyrs', a propaganda tool. It is honestly the most grotesque thing, i would prefer it if the Kurdish resistance was still doing terror attacks to this sickening martyr culture.
Could you explain what makes matryrdom some prominent in Turkish/Kurdish radical movements?

some people acting shocked that the lines in this directed towards marxists are directed towards, well, MLs who you know have plenty of countries to their name on the basis that its more appropriate to say this to anarchists…and it is but it still stands that modern marxists aren't exactly successfully spreading revolutions and carrying them out, global capitalism is still here etc. I used to be more sympathetic and I am from an ML/tankie position and I'll defend the usual points in historical arguments but its not a hill to die on anymore yes our tradition isn't doing anything at the moment and pointing to China is a cope - I'm talking about in the west where most of us are. Sorry.

>>16155
See >>1481256