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/edu/ - Education

'The weapon of criticism cannot, of course, replace criticism of the weapon, material force must be overthrown by material force; but theory also becomes a material force as soon as it has gripped the masses.' - Karl Marx
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File: 1680683116326.jpeg (74.07 KB, 612x481, 84D0CA15-CE99-4E23-A512-F….jpeg)

 No.16427[View All]

Looking at the recent advancements in the field of AI that perpetually make it into the news I thought it was appropriate to make a thread about artificial intelligence. Even if you believe the recent news on AI are merely sensationalism and that we will head into another “AI Winter” soon, I think it would be interesting to discuss the existence of artificial intelligence and “its labor” from a Marxist perspective and talk about where human beings and their labor fits into a society where AI manages to do a lot of the things that for a long time where believed only a human could do. That aside, I just find it reasonable to remain aware and therefore discuss the impact of current state of the art machine learning models that produce photos with ever increasing striking realism.

On that note, I would also like to direct you to the two threads on consciousness I made since that is related and people were also talking about artificial intelligence in there
Current thread: >>>/edu/9849
Last thread: https://archive.ph/LSgow
140 posts and 35 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.16568

>>16567
im not saying its impossible but i dont see how

 No.16569

>>16568
impossible for a political org to develop and push this message or impossible to implement? At least pointing out that all this invasion could be used to make society more equitable would be a start

 No.16570

>>16569
more the implementing part, its not like political parties even bother saying truthful things anyway

 No.16571

AI itself is nothing but when people are saying it has potential to be weaponized like nuclear weapons im observant about the sitation.

 No.16572

As someone who knows CS shit - it's very overblown and an attempt to salvage this broke-ass country and its imperial projects. Other idiots attempt to use this to salvage their own broke-ass philosophical projects and defend their specious reasoning, like the Marxists who seem to be averse to any acknowledgement that the grand theory can ever be wrong, and who want to relitigate 1917 forever. It's absurd.

AI advances do mean a lot, but they are not some great awakening or transhuman utopian technology. GPT-4 is not a very good model - it can search for stuff to make a credible article and offer leads on where to look for your own information, but it doesn't actually "think" or possess an ability to answer complex questions, or hold a train of thought beyond "what is the answer to x". That level of composition requires steps that are nowhere near completion, and the GPT-4 concept as it is has largely exhausted its potential. It can be refined to look a little better and perhaps appear more real to the untrained eye, but after enough exposure, users figure out which text is machine generated. It's not hard to figure out and we're not as stupid as they want us to be.

 No.16573

>>16479
Read Marx lib

I,s called labor theory of value

 No.16574

>>16539
>vote for us and we'll run our open algorithm through the assets and entire financial history of all landlords and use it to set equitable rents based on how hard you work for a dollar vs how hard they work for a dollar. We got the data now, if the majority don't vote to use it the minority will use it to reinforce inequality.
No because that's right wing capitalism sweaty

 No.16575

>>16570
yeah. But if it's a message that gains some traction in the orgs then it's more likely to get implemented surely. I can't understand why nobody is even talking about it.
>>16574
>No because that's right wing capitalism sweaty
No, we currently have right wing capitalism where the tax code is selectively enforced in favour of the rich. The narrative reason for this is complexity and staff shortages. Implementing a algorithmically enforced tax code would bypass that selective enforcement and would be a step towards equity. It's a political message that should be a no brainer on the left.

 No.16576

>>16575
>No, we currently have right wing capitalism where the tax code is selectively enforced in favour of the rich. The narrative reason for this is complexity and staff shortages. Implementing a algorithmically enforced tax code would bypass that selective enforcement and would be a step towards equity. It's a political message that should be a no brainer on the left.
Nice liberalism. I'm not "on the left" I'm a communist, so I don't support liberal reformism like that shit

 No.16577

>>16575
The richt avoid paying taxes legally by setting up limited liability companies and trust funds in various countries. Your approach is naïve.

 No.16579

>>16578
>"Company that made an AI its chief executive sees stocks climb"
its the cryptocoin farce all over again hahahahaha

 No.16580

File: 1684763157132.jpg (49.05 KB, 960x577, 347438225_2192287604297762….jpg)


 No.16581

>>16580
oof, that was painful

 No.16582

>>16576
>Nice liberalism. I'm not "on the left" I'm a communist, so I don't support liberal reformism like that shit
Same. But what about the concept of running open algorithms over everyone's financial affairs instead of the current system of selective auditing that the rich can evade. It would at least result in a more equitable tax system, right?
>>16577
>The richt avoid paying taxes legally by setting up limited liability companies and trust funds in various countries.
I agree, but an IRS algorithm would detect this in a way that current IRS auditing does not, due to selective auditing or regulatory capture or whatever. Surely this is something that some succdem party or some fucking body should be pushing?

 No.16583

I genuinely think that the development of AI could result in the kind of internal contradiction Marx predicted about capitalism making itself obsolete by over-developing the forces of production.

If the logic of capital is to lay off workers and replace them with bots, then the ranks of the unemployed will swell, leading to instability. It would also reduce the purchasing power of consumers, who are the workers, to buy the products the firms sell. Leading to either a collapse in prices or a further breakdown in the system.

Of course the capitalists won't give up easily, and there will be a long period of pain and repression before the system finally caves and the dialectics overwhelm it.

 No.16584

>>16583
yeah sure all automation is about that thing marx said lol, but in reality what we get is >>16580 (so far)

 No.16585

>>16583
I mean idk about ai but yeah imu the increase in the ratio of fixed capital compared to variable capital will cause and is causing crisis in the system of capital accumulation

 No.16586

>>16583
>capitalism making itself obsolete by over-developing the forces of production
Literally any kind of automation contributes to this. The word "automation" makes people believe it's just robots but anything that makes it so 1 person can do the job of 10 is going to have significant effects and already has 40% of people not working and that's a number that's been increasing.

 No.16587

>>16586
Yeah but think about it. Think about the class dynamics of the issue. The most advanced capitalist economies are mainly "knowledge economies" and service economies, while most manual labor is offshored . That entire sector of knowledge economy is at risk of automation, putting white collar workers at risk of unemployment. That is unprecedented and has huge political implications

 No.16588

>>16587
you need to stop falling for openai marketing schemes tbh

 No.16589

AI has rendered the marxist “labor theory of value” completely obsolete, by proving that complete automation of the working class under capitalism is inevitable in the 21st century. It is now clear that the marxist ideology is completely obsolete and that UBI is the only viable path forward for the soon to be redundant working class, with the beauty of this being that UBI is the only economic policy that is supported by both left-liberal/social democratic union activists and moderate libertarian tech CEOs, thus making UBI more realistic then any other leftist economic policy.

Finally, the collapse of the marxist worldview (the redundancy of the “labor theory of value” due to AI) and the simultaneous rise of UBI, in combination with global cultural liberal homogenization through the processes of secularization and globalization (as seen by the collapse of traditional religion, the rise of LGBTQIA+ rights, women’s rights, mass immigration, etc.), may finally pave the way for the worldwide obliteration of all collective identities (ie. religion, race, ethnicity, nation, gender, class, etc.), and the resultant enshrinement of the rights of the individual above all else in the eternal end of history!

 No.16590

>>16589
lol

 No.16591

>>16588
Lol that's what you came up with? Look at the evidence. It's already happening

 No.16592

>>16589
Lmao

 No.16593

>>16589
Kids, this is what happens when you don't read theory. Don't be like this guy (retarded)

 No.16594

>>16576
>Nice liberalism. I'm not "on the left" I'm a communist, so I don't support liberal reformism like that shit
Same. But what about the concept of running open algorithms over everyone's financial affairs instead of the current system of selective auditing that the rich can evade. It would at least result in a more equitable tax system, right?
>>16577
>The richt avoid paying taxes legally by setting up limited liability companies and trust funds in various countries.
I agree, but an IRS algorithm would detect this in a way that current IRS auditing does not, due to selective auditing or regulatory capture or whatever. Surely this is something that some succdem party or some fucking body should be pushing?

 No.16595

>>16578
>Comrade AI is on our side.
Most likely there will be anticommunist AIs and there will be pro communist AIs.
>It is a materialist and rational system that defaults to rational and materialist answers.
Hopefully special purpose AIs will be soon in assessing radiology data and making a diagnosis based on their findings.
Neural networks are already employed in med research
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41589-023-01349-8

>>16589
not sure if fat troll or retarded shitlib

 No.16596

Describe how an artificial intelligence would work not based on formal and arithmetic logic (or at least not just that), but also dialectics.

 No.16597

>>16596
Thesis: human
Antithesis: computer
Synthesis: AI

there, done 😎

 No.16598

>>16578
>It is a materialist and rational system that defaults to rational and materialist answers.
lmaoooo transhum flags proving they got no fucking idea about technology once again

 No.16599

hugs with XJ-9

 No.16600

Got a nice algorithm here that correlates politician's stock trades with market movements over the last 20 years. Maybe a succdem party will be interested because no other party of any kind wants to even mention this kind of thinking.

 No.16601

>>16596
>but also dialectics.
Marx' dialectics? Hegel's dialectics? Socrate's dialectics? My grandmom's dialectics?

 No.16602

Artificial intelligence is not real. Its just calculations and algorithms. Its just computation. Math deployed on a massive mechanized scale.

The size of the computer chips is misleading. Back when they filled an entire room their mechanical nature was more visually apparent.

Their small size lets them get filled with spooks by their proponents, but also their opponents.

 No.16603

>>16596
>Thesis: this ai can do this thing
>Antithesis: no, you are wrong, take this extra training data that shows how it can't
>Synthesis: ai can now do that thing better

It applies to machine learning, not necessarily ai in general

 No.16604

>>16601
dialectics are just dialectics. their use can be traced back to hominid pastoralism and lhp/rhp, but they're definitely from the bronze-age imo.

 No.16605

>>16603
>>16602
>>16596
imagine an excel spreadsheet of vectors but in 3D and every value is weighted.
that's what machine learning is.

 No.16606

>>16602
Nothing to add but this is true.
'AI' is a marketing gimick. ChatGPT is closer to Markov Chains than it is to Intelligence.
For that matter I have never even heard a reasonable, considered definition of 'intelligence' by these propagandists that have flooded the internet with this crap recently.

 No.16607

>>16605
Way higher than 3d. And even the spreadsheets are misleading. What matters is the data collection. They just appropriate it by enclosure of the internet commons. Even they admit only the data matters. You could do the math by hand if you hired millions of people.

 No.16608

>>1479281
Nazoid uses opera

Lmao

 No.16609

>>16607
by 3D i meant it's like
t1,[,,,,,,],[,,,,,,];t2,[,,,,,,],[,,,,,,];t3,[,,,,,,],[,,,,,,]
rather than t1,[,,,,,,],[,,,,,,]
each table is an inverted pointer index to a string encoded dictionary, but they're weighted to be relational to each value to predict what comes next in a sequence. it's just hyper-compressed SQL with weights basically, apache Lucene.
you could run OCR on 100TB of libgen books, 30TB of patents and 30TB of research papers, scrape *.html on waybackmachine and you'd have something much more powerful than the common crawl scrape / gutenberg collection every single one of the american corporations use for their models.

 No.16610

>>16606
No need to get hung up on whether it is truly "intelligent." It can do useful stuff. That's what matters

 No.16611

A lot of people here who throw around comp sci jargon trying to appear more knowledgeable than they actually are

 No.16612

uyghur

 No.16613

>>16606
english language ability in a neural network is a proxy for intelligence because intelligence is required to compress vast amounts of information down into a small enough size to fit in the network, it is truly 'intelligent'

 No.16614

>>1480007
Computer science is a well paid field dude.

 No.16615

>>16613
im so tired of the "intelligence" discourse

 No.16616

can we move on and start talking about things that actually matter like power and surveillance

 No.16617

>>16614
*was

 No.16618

incredibly funny that gpt was specifically trained on highly-upvoted reddit posts, so everything it makes reads like a /u/unidan post before he got jailed for election fraud, and the direct result is a bunch of the most vacuous nerds on the planet are convinced it's literally God


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