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/edu/ - Education

'The weapon of criticism cannot, of course, replace criticism of the weapon, material force must be overthrown by material force; but theory also becomes a material force as soon as it has gripped the masses.' - Karl Marx
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File: 1674846959785.jpg (6 KB, 158x320, faggot.jpg)

 No.17634[View All]

I have struggled with this question a lot, particularly because many of the things that get called fascist are quite clearly, in my eyes, not unique to fascism from both sides of the political aisle (e.g. free market advocacy, socialism etc.) So, leftypol, is fascism truly everything I don't like?
165 posts and 40 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.17802

>>17797
mosley says here that fascism is about conquering "red anarchy". I know trotsky used the phrase as well. does anyone know where?

 No.17803

>>17801
Shitty imitations on their part
Go with the OG

 No.17804

>>17803
Fascism had no vanguard, just a street army

 No.17805

>>17786
corporatism is a syndicalism offshoot as well im pretty sure

 No.17807

>>17805
Yes it is
Quite clearly
Anon is just being weird for no reason

 No.17808

>what is fascism?
Manlets seeking to be the ubermensch

 No.17809

>>17808
all of the world's evil can be traced back to an insecure manlet trying to overcompensate
eliminate manlets and you will eliminate fascism(14 c,d,e,g)

 No.17810

>>17808
where did the hilter was small myth come from? he looks pretty tall here

 No.17811

>>17810
Is 5'9 tall to you?

 No.17812

>>17811
he looks nearly as tall as Chamberlin here. unless this is some form of illusion or trick

 No.17814

>>17813
eh alright

 No.17815

>>17814
Bro the heights are literally written on them
Are u okay?

 No.17816

>>17815
im drunk

 No.17817

So I'm still reading "Talks with ᴉuᴉlossnW" and, for comparison's sake, I skimmed "Mein Kampf" once.

I've got to say that ᴉuᴉlossnW seems, far and above, a more interesting personality than Hitler. Given it's from the perspective of a German-Jewish reporter (who hilariously enough said there's no one in Germany with the right character to be a Fascist dictator), there might be a bit of the fellow's bias coming through. Hitler was by all accounts a freak, even by the standards of his time. He had few, if any, childhood friends, and an overbearing mother. He couldn't hold down any normal job, partially because of his own stubbornness. He had almost no romantic partners.

ᴉuᴉlossnW, say what you will, could function as a normal person in society. Beyond that, he seems to possess a far more adventurous and exciting personality than Hitler. He actually had a family for one, a healthy relationship with his parents, lovers, so on. He worked multiple jobs, was a newspaper editor, a laborer, a teacher, and a soldier. Whereas Hitler seems to look back on the wretched poverty of his life before The War with rage and contempt, ᴉuᴉlossnW puts up a stoic face and talks about the lessons hardship taught him.

Holy Fuck it just hit me: Hitler is his followers. He's some weird neet, "wronged by the world" who thinks having artistic or creative passions gives him "depth" that the "normies" just don't have. Mein Kampf's a rambling school shooter screed. Every last one of those little Patriot Front dweebs is a little Hitler. If we ever get some clownworld 4th Reich Nazi state, the next Fuhrer is going to write a rambling book about being beat up by Antifa or getting radicalized by some twitter spat.

>The "Gradually, I came to hate them" line is Hitler literally complaining about how he'd debate Jews "with facts and logic"


And every one of his retarded, modern day followers realize that even if it's only subconsciously. "Hey kids: here's a guy who couldn't make friends, couldn't get pussy, and was adrift and directionless in the world. And look at all he accomplished!"

Jesus. I don't know what's more horrifying. That we have a thousand little Hitlers running around, or that there can be some bizarre twist of fate that puts someone so nakedly pathetic in charge of a major European power. Churchill, FDR, Stalin, ᴉuᴉlossnW, and hell, Hirohito just by the sheer weight of his title. These were all larger-than-life figures. They lived a life in full. Hitler though, was amazing only because of his sheer inadequacy.

 No.17818

>>17817
Why do you think all these crazy neet retards worship Hitler? They identify themselves in this lunatic failson whose primary talent is creating aesthetic spectacles and grandiose megalomaniac speeches.

 No.17819

>>17634
Fascism is a violent attempt by lower middle classes and lumpenproles to stabilize, reset, and “purify” capitalism so it works in their favor.
/Thread

 No.17820

Been reading coming of the American behemoth which is all about fascism in the 20s-40s highly recommend!

 No.17821

>>17817
screencap worthy describes the types of fascists I encounter well- failson incel(/pol/ack) or unhinged sociopath(is in the aryan brotherhood)

 No.17822

>>17761
also that mean israel wouldn't be fascist/fascistic which as we all know is straight cap

 No.17823

>>17819
>threading your own post
>its a stupid fucking post
fascism is always driven by the porkies first and foremost

 No.17824

>>17823
its an "alliance" between porkie and the lower middle class , but porkie tends to have more power and eventual control over the relationship.

 No.17825

>>17823
> fascism is always driven by the porkies first and foremost
T. Historical illiterate
Fascism has always originated from bands of former veterans and lower middle classes who hate capitalism for leaving them in the dumpster of history. Typically, they moderate their program over time to secure funding from the capitalist class, until they come to power, when they pick their old ideas back up. This is most evident in the case of Italy, where 75% of industry was nationalized by ᴉuᴉlossnW

 No.17826

>>17825
Literal Nazis invented privatisation on the other hand

 No.17827

>>17818
>>17821
Admittedly I was stoned when I wrote that post, and the moment I had that kind of "Aha!" was when ᴉuᴉlossnW talked about his time in the military.

Both he and Hitler showed some degree of personal courage on the battlefield. Though I'd argue Hitler was more suicidally reckless than brave. Both of them wound up getting treated in a military hospital. But whereas Hitler seems to have developed a kind of psychosomatic blindness brought on the sheer psychic trauma of Germany losing the war, ᴉuᴉlossnW describes being confined to a military hospital and hearing artillery firing all around him, thinking at any moment: this could be it.

Honestly, ᴉuᴉlossnW just seems more psychically grounded than Hitler ever was. Were it not for the monumentally stupid decision to follow the Nazis into the abyss, I imagine he could've kept the Fascist regime semi-stable.

 No.17828

>>17825
this may be true in italy but in nazi germany, the private corporations were major allies to the nazi regime

 No.17829

>>17827
ᴉuᴉlossnW literally carries himself like a jojo villian

 No.17830

>>17828
That’s why I said it’s an attempt by lower middle classes to reset capitalism. Because it doesn’t always succeed. In Germany, the main Fascist party lost its revolutionary character because it had to legalize itself to attain power, while in Italy it seized power via a march on the capitol. Also, all Fascist regimes entail some kind of attempt to reset capitalism, usually through violent conquest. And that’s exactly what the Nazis tried doing in the East. They actually were in the process of replacing the German working class with eastern-European slave laborers while the Germans would all be soldier-peasants

 No.17831

>>17827
if mussolini had allied himself with the allies or stayed neutral he could have beneifted from the cold war. I can imagine him forming a italian bloc with spain, or fascist leaning nations thats side with the usa. Meanwhile the usa would have given lots of cheap fucking loans to italy and the bloc it represents. A anti communist bloc.

 No.17832

>>17830
alright, fair enough

 No.17833

>>17829
Haha, well while I'm not sure of that, I figure I'd throw a few… interesting quotations from "Talks With ᴉuᴉlossnW" out here to get an idea of how his personality comes across:

Upon discussing his father's imprisonment and his escape to Switzerland:
>"One does that sort of thing [get a job in manual labor] in mingled enthusiasm and despair; but perhaps rage is the dominant feeling. I had been infuriated by the sorrow of my parents; I had been humiliated at school; to espouse the cause of the revolution gave hope to a young man who felt himself disinherited. It was inevitable that I should become a Socialist ultra, a Blanquist, indeed a Communist. I carried about a medallion with Marx's head in it in my pocket. I think I regarded it as a sort of Talisman."
<"What do you think of Marx now when you look at such a medallion?"
>"That he had a profound critical intelligence and was in some sense even a prophet."

On being held up in a military hospital:
<"Is it true that when they performed a necessary operation, you refused to take Chloroform?"
>"I wanted to keep an eye on what the Surgeons were doing."

When discussing his expulsion from the Socialist Party:
<"I have been told that when the Party expelled you, you shouted, in answer to the hissing and invective which arose from all parts of the hall, 'You hate me because you still love me!' That was a fine saying. I suppose it really happened?"
>ᴉuᴉlossnW nods

 No.17834

>>17817
How will people like that be dealt with under communism?

 No.17835

>>17817
>He's some weird neet, "wronged by the world" who thinks having artistic or creative passions gives him "depth" that the "normies" just don't have.
Failures make up the reaction. This has been a known fact since the conception of it.
There are exceptions, in the NSDAP for example there was Göring, who used to be an ace pilot.

 No.17836

>>17835
He and his family were petty bourgeois types, became lumpen after ww1.

 No.17837

>>17833
good thing this guy didn't have access to the internet I can only imagine the channel this guy would run

 No.17838

Just read the Last Testament of ᴉuᴉlossnW, kind of interesting because even then, he was still pushing back against the “Fascism is capitalism in decay” notion; to me that comes across as a true believer rather than pure opportunist.

Also I’m trying to find sources on ᴉuᴉlossnW’s reaction to Gramsci’s death. I know he told him to read Bordiga ironically enough, but I don’t know much of their personal relationship.

 No.17839

File: 1685815730750.png (159.58 KB, 611x822, ClipboardImage.png)

>>17817
Hitler had childhood friends, including August Kubizek, an Austrian composer that wrote a book on his experiences with Hitler in the 50s
I don't know what angle you're trying to get at, both ᴉuᴉlossnW and Hitler were just very boring, standard petit-bourgeois who were thrown into politics by the collapse and crisis of that class

 No.17840

>>17839
I’m sure he had a couple, but from what I understand of Hitler’s personal life, he didn’t have much of a social upbringing. He had a crush but never actually dated anyone. He was a poor student who started skipping school. In Vienna his roommate would describe him being quiet, and then going on unhinged rants.

Like I don’t think Hitler’s personality can be described as “normal.” He was the prototypical psycho incel. Not necessarily the boring bureaucrat of Himmler. By contrast I’d say ᴉuᴉlossnW had a far healthier social development than Hitler.

 No.17841

>>17840
Wtf is this spooky bullshit lmao

 No.17842

>>17841
>Talking about Hitler’s childhood development and it’s impact on his psyche
>Spooky
Not sure what you’re getting at.

 No.17843

>>17842
You already answered the question
This is why Bordiga said the only thing worse than fascism was anti-fascism
"If you don't follow norms and have a 'healthy' social life literally from childhood, you're basically Hitler"

 No.17844

>>17843
>This is why Bordiga said the only thing worse than fascism was anti-fascism

fat ass L leftcoms explain this shit turning point bordiga head ass

 No.17845

>>17844
We need to genocide all potential Hitlers, remove the toxic dysfunctional elements from the gene pool, free up living space and allow the will to triumph

 No.17846

>>17843
I think there’s some miscommunication going on here. I genuinely don’t know what you’re talking about.

I’m merely pointing out some of the features of Hitler’s early life, and how they appear to have affected his personality, and that personality was a major characteristic of the Nazi regime.

“Hitler as a boring petite-bourgeois bureaucrat” just isn’t an accurate analysis of his psychology. He missed key steps in his development and I don’t think that he would’ve been “any old normal German” and he not become Fuhrer. I believe he would’ve been a social recluse, a freak, and would’ve died in obscurity.

By contrasting that with ᴉuᴉlossnW, I think you can see an ideological difference between Nazism and Italian Fascism. ᴉuᴉlossnW was concerned with ideological and economic matters; hence corporatism, hence his last testament proclaiming that Fascism isn’t “just capitalism in decay.” Because this was psychically important to ᴉuᴉlossnW. Hitler, by contrast, was content to surrender control of Germany’s economy to private industry. When he was about to die, he had no interest in “clearing his reputation for the next generation”, he wanted Germany to die with him.

As for comparing Hitler’s personality to many of his modern disciples, I think this can go a way towards explaining why the more repugnant and less intellectual of the pair has a major following all over the world, while ᴉuᴉlossnW’s acclaim is predominantly confined to Italy. There’s something perhaps universal about Hitler, or rather, Capitalist society can vomit out a million socially maladroit freaks who want to make the world pay. We’re just lucky that most blow their load on mass shootings or suicide rather than seizing power.

 No.17847

>>17840
ngl CPUSAnon those all sound well within the range of normal to me. without getting too into semantics, i think you can reasonably say that something like being a child soldier or child movie star is abnormal. being lonely and weird is very normal

 No.17848

Matt Christman has a good episode on this

 No.17849

>>17756
if you think animal farm is fascist literature you're too far gone to warrent my ear

 No.17850

File: 1686090439217.jpg (801.31 KB, 800x1135, Klan.jpg)

>>17847
Depends how you define "normal" I suppose. Maybe "typical" would be a better term.

I think there's some misunderstanding at least. I'm not saying anyone who was lonely or weird or otherwise "abnormal" is destined to become Hitler-like; if I was, well then I'd be condemning myself too. After all, I had a slightly similar childhood: strained relationship with my father, not too many friends growing up, not many long term relationships, so on.

I guess what I'm saying, is I think that there are certain milestones one can accomplish to have a broadly "healthy" (as in, pro-social) development. Having a strong relationship with both parents for example. Having a network of friends and acquaintances to socialize with. Having a lover. Sustained employment. All of these contribute towards making a person that's part of a greater social body.

As for why that is, I think its because when people don't have the company of others, they end up retreating to the company of their own mind. Now this isn't always a bad thing; plenty of Holy Men lived as hermits and there's a kind of intellectualism that can come from being alone with your thoughts. But when that isolation is seemingly forced on you (even if it's by your own inaction) then it can drive a person mad.

Take, for example, Hitler's hatred of Jews. I think the most shocking thing about it was how nihilistic it was. The awful truth about genocidal Nazism, is that it seems to have come about for no reason. I've tried researching it before, and I don't think there's a single negative encounter Hitler ever had with a Jew prior to the Holocaust. His first crush was Jewish. The doctor who treated his mother, for free mind you, was Jewish. His commanding officer during the war was Jewish. As silly as it is to think some Jew once cut Hitler off in traffic and so he decided he was going to commit genocide, it's almost baffling that Jews were the one people who showed this strange social recluse any kindness, and he responded with mass murder.

It wasn't even a lack of gratitude. Hitler made special exceptions for his old commanding officer and his mother's doctor. He could be personally gracious, but to the Jewish people as a whole, he was a monster.

How'd he square the circle of Jews being nothing but kind to him and his desire to kill them all? If I had to guess, its because he was in this introvert's world for far too long. Remember, every single person we encounter on the street has a vast inner world. We only see what they want to show us. When a person is walking or driving or doing other non-social activities, they're still thinking. Ideas swim around their head. An introvert is merely someone who spends more time in this realm of ideas than out among other people.

So you have Hitler, he's sitting alone in some shitty apartment after selling his paintings to a bunch of tourists. And he's thinking. He's thinking. He keeps thinking. Next thing you know, he walks out of that room and he decides the Jews are the cause of all the ills in the world. There's no visible cause for his antisemitism, in just the same way that you'll have these /pol/ types spend 12 hours a day confined to their room, only communicating through the internet. As far as their parents know, their child was a good student, a bit quiet, but they thought they taught them right from wrong and explained life as best as they could. Somehow that kid became a Nazi; and no amount of pointing out how their cousins were Jewish or how their Jewish teacher was always their favorite can convince them otherwise. Because they've gone through a metamorphosis that took place entirely in the confines of their mind. And their fantasy world is closer to them than the real world could ever be.

One last thing I'd like to point out. Something that seems to be a recurring thing in the "quiet" White Supremacists, the ones that aren't shaving their head and loudly bellowing "Heil Hitler", is they're almost comically surrounded by the people they want to exterminate. There was a 4chan Greentext making the rounds of some "Nationalist" who got a new Muslim coworker and became friends with him, in part because he learned so much about Islamic culture through sheer immersion in hating it. He isn't out and out rude, and I'm sure the Muslim fellow considers him to be a good friend. I've heard people similarly claim that the notorious Antisemitic caricaturist, A. Wyatt Man, is close to tons of Jews. Again and again, among the people that would later go on to profess a kind of Nazism (Oswald Mosley and Ezra Pound come to mind) when called out on their rampant anti-semitism, they'll say something like "Oh, I don't hate hard-working, honest Jews! I think there can be good Jews! I only hate the bad ones!"

Some people would think that's the world's laziest excuse. Or that they're lying. I'd argue they may genuinely be telling the truth as they see it. They don't hate the Jews they encounter on a day-to-day basis, the friendly Jews, the real Jews. They hate the Jews that are scrambling around their skull. The imaginary Jews they've reduced to a Demonic caricature. The slimy, hook-nosed, perverse, cunning Jews. If you lined up all the Jews they actually knew, and told them to push the button to the gas chamber, I think at least a few would find they didn't have it in them to do it. Maybe they'd justify it by saying "No no no, those are the GOOD Jews!"

But the fact is, when dealing with power as broad as passing laws; you don't distinguish between "good" and "bad." Once you punish a category, you punish all the people within that category. The thief that steals to feed his family is a thief and is dealt with like a thief.

The Nazis sentenced millions of good, hardworking, and kind Jews to their deaths. That they spared the ones they personally knew isn't a mark in their favor.

It's the ultimate absurdity of Nazism.

 No.17851

>>17850
>I guess what I'm saying, is I think that there are certain milestones one can accomplish to have a broadly "healthy" (as in, pro-social) development. Having a strong relationship with both parents for example. Having a network of friends and acquaintances to socialize with. Having a lover. Sustained employment. All of these contribute towards making a person that's part of a greater social body.
Hahaha you'd have a lot in common with Nazi propaganda thinking this spooked sentimental bs
>Now this isn't always a bad thing; plenty of Holy Men lived as hermits and there's a kind of intellectualism that can come from being alone with your thoughts.
Ah yes, Holy Men are the height of intellectualism
>How'd he square the circle of Jews being nothing but kind to him and his desire to kill them all? If I had to guess, its because he was in this introvert's world for far too long.
Have you considered maybe there were larger political and social things happening which he became a representative face for due to no particular reason? That's not a thing that a self-proclaimed communist would consider?

 No.17852

>>17851
This kind of post is the exact kind of vulgar "materialism" endemic to people who get their Marxism from Memes and YouTube summaries than actually reading Marx.

The social environment classes and people engage in of course lends itself towards developing reactionary or progressive ideals. Do you even know what spooks mean?

 No.17853

Fascist movements were the natural outgrowth of liberal European nation-states, a fact which disturbs liberals to this day, and which causes them to try to depict it as "irrational" or "totalitarian" and to "psychoanalyze" it. The fascists were managers of the decay of liberalism in the face of proletarian-centric mass movements like Social-Democracy and Communism, agents of Jacobin terror to put an end to these implacable threats to liberal status quo.


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