Anonymous 2023-06-22 (Thu) 09:24:50 No. 18905
In a capitalist mode of production, scientists are downstream from economics. They are merely workers hired to produce a commodity called research. In capitalism the seller of a commodity (whether that commodity is a good, a service, or labor power) doesn't have the power to tell the buyer (whether end consumer or capitalist) what to do with it. Since it is the capitalist (or their bourgeois representatives in government) who are buying the research (labor commodity) from the scientists (workers), they can use the knowledge in the research however they like. They can withhold it from the public. They can use it to make weapons. Under capitalism, no matter how strictly a scientist obeys the scientific method, or how consistent their personal set of ethics are, they are at the end of the day, merely workers hired in a capitalist mode of production. This is why liberal appeals to "science, logic, and reason." fall flat under capitalism. It is the bourgeoisie who decide what to do with the knowledge (commodity) produced by scientific research (labor).
Anonymous 2023-06-22 (Thu) 09:48:25 No. 18906
Under capitalism, the whims of the ruling class become the “science” that people follow. Under socialism, it is science that guides the state, so there’s a level of objectivity that’s missing from bourgeois pseudosciences
Anonymous 2023-06-22 (Thu) 10:06:48 No. 18907
>>18906 science can exist under capitalism, as can bourgeois pseudosciences. It's just that under capitalism, the bourgeoisie decide what to do with knowledge discovered through the scientific process. Sometimes they keep it secret. Sometimes they use it oppress the proletariat. It is not that
all science under capitalism is pseudoscience, or that
real science never happens under capitalism, it is that science is a commodity under capitalism.
This is the proper understanding of the issue. I sometimes see people suggest real science is impossible under capitalism, or that any discovery made by science under capitalism is pseudoscientific. I do not think that is true.
Anonymous 2023-06-22 (Thu) 14:38:15 No. 18909
>>18905 It's not only that scientists are subordinate to capitalists as to whether anyone pays attention to their research - scientists are subject to capitalist funding for their projects and as such don't even get to decide what to research: money makes the decision.
Much like the film industry as George Lucas pointed out, the market determines what you're allowed to do.
Anonymous 2023-06-22 (Thu) 14:43:43 No. 18910
>>18907 >This is the proper understanding of the issue. I sometimes see people suggest real science is impossible under capitalism, or that any discovery made by science under capitalism is pseudoscientific. I do not think that is true. Since the material reality is the same no matter who looks at it, as long as the research is being done without a predetermined conclusion by its funding (Oil funded research on climate change, Cigarette industry funded research on cancer, etc.) there's a good chance capitalist science arrives at the actual truth.
Anonymous 2023-06-22 (Thu) 14:51:44 No. 18911
>knowledge (commodity) is knowledge really a commodity, genuinely asking
>>18908 >unspoilered gore MMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDSSSSS Anonymous 2023-06-22 (Thu) 17:54:20 No. 18913
>>18907 A lot of research is done from funding from the state so the bourgeoisie don't interfere with science that much. That isn't to say that the scientific community is free from any excess
PUBLISHING BIASES AND MERCHANTS OF DOUBT but it is not a fully commodity yet.
Anonymous 2023-06-22 (Thu) 18:17:55 No. 18915
>>18910 >there's a good chance capitalist science arrives at the actual truth. exactly. the real problem is that the conclusions discovered by scientific research under capitalism is gatekept as a commodity and/or and used to oppress the proletariat.
Anonymous 2023-06-22 (Thu) 18:20:47 No. 18916
>>18911 >is knowledge really a commodity, genuinely asking scientific research (and the knowledge it contains) has use value and exchange value. it is produced through human labor. therefore it is a commodity.
Anonymous 2023-06-22 (Thu) 19:25:54 No. 18917
>>18911 You should know by now that anything can be commodified under capitalism.
Anonymous 2023-06-22 (Thu) 21:47:26 No. 18918
when I was a younger science autist I always wondered why the people I thought were the smartest allow themselves to be controlled by business and marketing majors
Anonymous 2023-06-23 (Fri) 00:55:59 No. 18919
>>18913 >A lot of research is done from funding from the state the state under capitalism is a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. and I mean the state UNDER capitalism. as opposed to some dirigisme type situation where commodity production continues temporarily during a transitional phase
or whatever Anonymous 2023-06-23 (Fri) 19:01:41 No. 18921
>>18915 >conclusions discovered by scientific research under capitalism is gatekept as a commodity Buy full PDF for only $39.99!
Anonymous 2023-06-23 (Fri) 19:15:06 No. 18922
>>18906 science doesn't guide china's state
Anonymous 2023-06-24 (Sat) 14:28:55 No. 18924
This is almost completly unrelated, but I hate pilot-waveoids with a burning passion. Worse and more scientifically dishonest than unironic Copers and redditors soyfacing at quantum universe splitting. And yet somehow these rats manage to linger in leftist spaces and shit and fart everywhere, probably because they are the Lysenkoists of physics with the exception that no noteworthy theory or prediction was ever made by them. Meanwhile lysenkoists can at least point to epigenetics.
Anonymous 2023-06-24 (Sat) 21:09:24 No. 18925
>>18924 >no noteworthy theory or prediction was ever made by them Translated from seething into normal English: Nobody can disprove our Pilot-Wave Chads and Staceys.
Anonymous 2023-06-25 (Sun) 00:32:40 No. 18928
>>18924 >Meanwhile lysenkoists can at least point to epigenetics. And vernalisation
There are orchards of fruit in Moscow and St Petersberg even now that we're Lysenkos work
Anonymous 2023-06-25 (Sun) 05:10:21 No. 18930
>>18905 Congrats, you've just rediscovered what posties and anprims were talking about for, like, three decades or so.
Anonymous 2023-06-25 (Sun) 05:12:12 No. 18931
>>18930 Eh, could you link some of this for me I'm surprised anarchists independently discovered it since it's right there in the theory of comrade Stalin among others
Anonymous 2023-06-25 (Sun) 05:24:13 No. 18932
>>18931 As if posties haven't read Marxists themselves.
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