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/edu/ - Education

'The weapon of criticism cannot, of course, replace criticism of the weapon, material force must be overthrown by material force; but theory also becomes a material force as soon as it has gripped the masses.' - Karl Marx
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 No.20867

This has annoyed me for a while and I would like to have addressed this for people who are also interested in this subject. I am not studied in physics and specifically quantum physics. I just take a general interest in this subject on the periphery of all the other things I am occupied with. When learning about physics through popsci videos and occasionally reading articles on the matter it has always bothered how nonsensical ideas and contrived theories are spread on this subject, and that shit needs to die.

You‘ve probably heard claims before such as
<„Consciousness collapses the wave function“
<„The collapse of the wave function produces a parallel universe for each possible outcome“
<„A particle could be anywhere until it is observed“

Much of this is straight up bullshit and some claims are an aberration of technically correct statements turned fantastical and far fetched.

First of all, „observe“ is misleadingly phrased. This gives credence to a consciousness-centered explanation of the wave function‘s collapse as people think of a person looking at something when they hear the word „observe“. By „observe“ physicists actually mean that a device physically interacts with something to measure a physical property. We aren‘t simply looking at something when we „observe“, instead we are physically interacting with it.

Additionally, the wave function isn‘t real. The way this term is used it makes it sound like it‘s a physically existing entity in the world. It isn‘t. The wave function is a mathematical abstraction that describes that we approximately know where, for example, an electron is probably going to be, whilst lacking precise knowledge where exactly it is UNTIL we have „observed“ it, i.e. physically interacted with it through a device that pinpoints this incredibly small object that we could otherwise not locate. The „collapse“ of the wave function is having moved from probabilistic knowledge to discrete knowledge. „Collapse“ yet again makes it sound like as if we are dealing with a materially real thing when in fact the term is just a mere abstractions describing the amount of knowledge we have about something on the quantum scale.

The wave function is not collapsed by consciousness. Your consciousness is the emergent product of neurochemical processes inside of your brain that are stimulated by your senses translating physical stimuli onto your body into electrical impulses carried by your nerves, such as light stimulating your retina or pressurized air physically pushing your eardrums. There is no physical interaction between the activity inside of your skull and an electron „that “chooses” to go through one or both slits in the double slit experiment“. Your consciousness didn‘t influence anything. What did was a device that physically interacts with the electron which bore an influence on its trajectory and behavior.

Likewise, the wave function is „collapsed“ in macro scale objects not because of consciousness but because these numerous particles on a quantum scale are interacting with each other in a confined space which limits their movement. You end up with a larger material object whose behavior is described by classical physics.

The claim that the collapse of the wave function „leads“ to the creation of parallel universes for each possible scenario is utterly baseless. The word „leads“ implies there is a physical and causal relationship between „the collapse of this wave function“ and the creation of a whole fucking universe (lol). Remember that the wave function is just a mathematical abstraction that describes how much we know about the properties of a quantum object. This should go without saying, but there is no physical and causal relationship between the amount of knowledge changing that we have about a physical system and that leading to the creation of a parallel universe. It‘s a baseless claim.

Fun fact, when Schrödinger created his thought experiment, now known as Schrödinger‘s Cat, he wasn‘t describing that it were real that a cat was „both dead and alive at the same time“ when trapped in a box with a toxic substance that would be released if some quantum mechanism was observed. He was ridiculing such a scenario that is founded on the Kopenhagener Interpretation of quantum physics. Actual physicists (should) know this, but popsci content will still frame it as a serious thought experiment, or as not a thought experiment at all but as something that actually happens.

Finally, once you understand all the nonsense regarding this field you have to ask yourself, why would such archaic interpretations spanning back roughly a hundred years ago still be so prevalent? It‘s because the vast majority of people will either not have the intelligence or time to study all of the details themselves. They are therefore reliant on actual scientists giving them illustrative and watered down explanations to acquire an at least vague understanding of the real thing. Two things have led to the persistence of these obviously moronic theories.
1) There is a sect of physicists that have a personal affinity to religion/spirituality/metaphysics which makes them favor such an interpretation of quantum physical processes. The Many Worlds Hypothesis is not debunked per se, but it‘s unscientific and can‘t be proven. It‘s as if I said: Whenever I fart on Taco Tuesday there will be a new parallel universe created. How? I don‘t know. Can you prove there isn‘t a new parallel universe whenever I fart? Haha, gotcha! Guess you have to seriously consider my bullshit now. It‘s the same line of reasoning by religious people. „You can‘t prove that God doesn‘t exist!“
2) There is a money to be made with popsci. As said, the general public is reliant on scientists making difficult subjects understandable to them with no deeper knowledge of those subjects. By making science as magical and fantastical as you can get away with while retaining the trustworthiness and prestige of science you can build a larger audience. I mean, wouldn‘t it be cool if portals to infinite parallel universes were real and you could use warp drives to fly to other galaxies? Magic can lead out of the boredom of a predictable and boring reality. Cluelessness about science can be abused to turn science into magic to give people the same thing they are seeking in magic, spirituality and religion. Some charlatans even try to prove magic, spirituality and religion with quantum physics.

So, I hope this has helped you to not fall for the bullshit. Maybe this all sounds obvious in hindsights but almost all popsci content online describes quantum physics in misleading terms and contrived interpretations. The truth about quantum physics is much more sober than that, but still it‘s rare to encounter a no bullshit explanation for quantum physics.

 No.20873

>>20867
> By „observe“ physicists actually mean that a device physically interacts with something to measure a physical property. We aren‘t simply looking at something when we „observe“, instead we are physically interacting with it.

If you stop privileging the forward arrow of time (which we hallucinate because of our biology) you'd realize that all the light we see actually originates in our minds as electrochemical signals, exits our eyes, and terminates in the nearest sun. I have resolved philosophy. Everything is nothing and idealism/materialism are simply a matter of whether you privilege forward or backward time.

haha just kidding, you make good points

 No.20875

File: 1698330743867-0.pdf (202.03 KB, 197x255, ratmech.pdf)

File: 1698330743867-1.pdf (323.58 KB, 180x255, bud.pdf)

>>20873
>idealism/materialism are simply a matter of whether you privilege forward or backward time
reminds me of these two articles

 No.20992

Everything you complain about is literally just a problem in the popular reception of QM since in the field everyone uses the Born rule because it just works, but
>I am not studied in physics and specifically quantum physics
>Finally, once you understand all the nonsense regarding this field
speaks for itself. Idk man learn some linear algebra and find out what a Hilbert space is, then you may apply again

 No.20996

>>20992
>doesn‘t add value to the thread just wants to jerk off his ego

 No.21139

>>20867
><„The collapse of the wave function produces a parallel universe for each possible outcome“
is bs

><„Consciousness collapses the wave function“

><„A particle could be anywhere until it is observed“
Misrepresentation. Its not conciousness that collapses it. Its the particle needing to interact with other solid matter.
Think of quantum mechanics as two states of being. You have regular being, it is, its in a single place at a single time.
Then you have quantum being, where a particle is not yet solidified.

If you know anything like programming, it works like lazy evaluation. If you only know math, its like not calculating a value and instead keeping fractions and sin(x) things.
A particle of light starts with a place, then it quantum interacts with other objects, that do not force it to change its fundamental state (it does not turn from light to heat, it does not intersect with atoms), which adds extra calculations to the possible location of the particle. This keeps going until it is forced to turn from one fundamental particle or thing into another (turn from photon to heat by interacting with atoms) at which point a full real value of the particle is calculated. This causes things like the two slit experiment.

Behind the screens of what we can observe there is some more fundamental substrate of reality that lazily calculated the positions of particles. Whether this is because our reality is a simulation and this would be more computationally effective, or because the underlying forces of reality happen to just work this way, i dont know.

At no point is conciousness of human action involed. A double slit experiment would produce the same outcome even if no living being was ever there to see it. The particle itself is lazily evaluated, which is why we can do insane shit like use interference with probabalistic versions of itself to get quantum computing and the double slit experiment.

For reference, the double slit experiment was originally used to show "interference of light as a wave", but the same result occurs when shooting single photon at a time. This indicated photons interfere not with other photons, but with themselves.
The lazy evaluation analogy best explains how quantum physics works for me. For each interaction, a new modification is made to the probabalistic possibilities of the particle, and only when the particle needs to change fundamental form does the "waveform collapse" from "being observed" aka being forced to be real by having to change fundamental form, such as from photon to energy when hitting a screen, for example, which is then emitted by the particle again as a slightly different form of light which we see. Measuring a quantum state is also a fundamental change in form, because the act of measurement makes the particle interact with other fields.


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