No.3
No.
If you read between the lines, the movie sided with the rich.
It discredits every social upheaval. No one will start unrest, because someone killed three bankers. They start it because of the literal straw that broke the camel's back. The yellow vests happened because fuel prices were increased. And if you travelled in France, those motherfuckers have one of the highest fuel prices in Europe.
Also all Arthur experiences is implied to be delusions.
No.5
Arthur is an unreliable narrator.
No.507
Just interpret it this way to capture the momentum
No.658
i actually teared up a bit during the interview and wayne calling the poor clowns.
No.676
>>4Sounds like shitting on political extremists if anything else
No.725
No, it couldn't.Arthur is not a proletarian, he is a lumpenproletarian.
>>3>It discredits every social upheavalNo, it doesn't, what the fuck?
>They start it because of the literal straw that broke the camel's back. The yellow vests happened because fuel prices were increased.What about the social services being closed?What about people being laid off their jobs?
The movie is set in 2009.
>delusionsThat is not what the word 'delusion' means normalfag.
>>4Oh boy, are you one of the retards of the Wayne Internet Defense Squad?
>you had some rich assholes who where justified in their actions (Wayne punching a weird dude who felt up his son)Arthur was just being nice with his half-brother since he never got to know him.
It's not Arthur's fault that he is an unfunny weirdo.
Imagine thinking Wayne is a good guy after outrighting stating that proles are clowns, after forging the documents of the madhouse (which is owned by him) and after proving that he is an hedonist asshole.
> and the Joker outright states he didn't give a shit about politicsNeither do I and here I am.Politics is not an objective, it is a tool.
>It was a character study about a dude with mental problems and a shitty life who finally snappedImagine being so much of an NPC that you think that the things you don't understand are not real
>It's the kind of movie where people see what they want to see in itNice postmodernist analysis bro.
>>676It shits on lemmings that only care about politics while ignoring ethics and the purpuse of such politics
No.726
I actually enjoyed it. Was a lot better than the Marvel movies. Glad there weren't many people there because a couple of the murders made me laugh out loud.
No.744
>>725>The movie is set in 2009.uh, dude the movie is set in the early 1980s
No.785
Jokes is based.Joker did litterally nothing wrong, also kill the rich.
No.786
The movie only gestures in the direction of class warfare and doesn't do anything with it, so politically it's not anything to write home about. However, Arthur's downwards spiral did start because he couldn't get access to his med because of state cuts, which is something at least.
No.787
>>727I jizzed a little when he kneecapped that banker
No.793
>>2Understanding the movie is impossible without understanding the setting of 1980s New York which it was set in.
This was during the hight of Reganist austerity in America which cut a lot of social services, but especially cut mental health services. This was also way before NYC became a gentrified Porky playground and it was a dirty gritty postindustrial city where a lot of people lived in poverty.
No.797
>>793So what was NY like before those cuts? Tbh I always thought NY was a shithole before Reagan came along since he was only a President.
No.798
If any political shit could be pulled out of it i'd say it's anarcho-nihilist. he doesn't dream of a better world or even particularly care about the protests he just wants pay back for everyone who lied and hurt him.
No.799
>>797NYC used to be an industrial city, when offshoring hit in the 70s it was one of the first cities to suffer this prompted the first wave of budget cuts. Late cuts were came from the feds during Regan.
No.1325
https://www.thewrap.com/joker-director-todd-phillips-rebuffs-criticism-of-dark-tone-we-didnt-make-the-movie-to-push-buttons-exclusive/
>Todd Phillips (Joker's director) :>What’s outstanding to me in this discourse in this movie is how easily the far left can sound like the far right when it suits their agenda. It’s really been eye opening for me.>the far left can sound like the far rightLoos like just another centrist to me.
No.1326
>>1325Who was far right in the movie? Wayne?
No.1331
>>1326I'm not sure but I think Todd Phillips wanted to make the clowns rioters looking both like the far left and the far right.
No.1336
>>786IMO it's a good cautionary tale of what happens if you simply try to react to failing capitalism instead of being proactive with a grounding in analysis. The people were ready to rise up, and the guy who inspired them was just some crazy guy. If you replaced Arthur with someone who had some materialist analysis, the people would presumably follow from that.
No.1839
>>2Overrated movie. Falling Down is better.
No.1840
>>2It's a DC remake of King of Comedy, except DeNiro is playing the TV show host this time. It also (partially rips off) some parts of Taxi Driver.
Joker in this film is essentially a lumpen-prole; can't stand up for himself, doesn't try to do anything to help himself or make friends just wallows in self-pity until his underlying psychopathy explodes. The film is still done well but frankly it has little resemblance to Joker.
No.1843
I never saw it, but I liked Socialism or Barbarisms video on it.
https://youtu.be/-hoz10Gobfw No.1848
I think the movie can only be perceived as one of Joker's imaginary pasts. Because the actual Joker is anonymous, while this one has been called by his real name on TV. Also no, it's doesn't contain any leftist message, other then what Joker, i.e. the narrator makes up to make his story more appealing.
The movie is overrated tbh
"Kill the rich"… yeah, masses would never go for such a slogan. It's not only too violent, but also just too bland
No.1849
Another hint that the story is made up (even in the made up DC universe): that short guy (cannot remember what his name was) would report the murder and would also tell the police that Arthur told him he'd be at Murray's show, so Arthur would never make it to the stage.
Might be just a plot-hole though
No.1851
>>2>the discontented masses will take a homicidal maniac as their leader>everyone bites their tongue and gets on with it<only the crazies and the criminals riot
Very subtle. Movie was garbage.
No.1867
the kill the rich stuff was def leftist-ish but also the Joker is the bad guy.
The joker is an unreliable narrator, so the whole movie could have been in his head. The riots might have had nothing to do with him but rather the garbagemen strike. maybe he only killed half the people.
the fact it had revolutionairy stuff going on though is cool. Like Sorry to Bother You, a much cooler film, that had strikes going on. Even mentioning it gives some social conscious to the idea
No.2355
>>2353This tbh, I agree with anon here with joker. Pretty bland with the formula of "we live in a society" critique and doesn't do much. Also the film might as well be tragedy porn.
No.2785
>>2772Back when comics were more openly retarded they were supposed to help him glide
No.2793
>>2785>Back when comics were more openly retarded they were supposed to help him glideBut that's equivalent of using a sieve for a bucket…
Did it not occur to them the air would just go through the holes of the web ?
No.2798
>>2793>Did it not occur to them the air would just go through the holes of the web ?Considering these were comics from the 60s to the 80s? No, not even once.
No.2812
>>2793It wasn't avtually a web, it was just a transparent weaved cloth with web like 'strengthening' web patterns. It was supposed to imitate a Squirrel flight suit.
No.2904
>>727My experience watching uncut gems. I was dying during most of the fucked up moments and people were giving me weird looks.
No.2905
>>2904what fucked up scene is there even in that movie
the last shot? meh it was surprising and irritating but that's about it.
No.2917
>>676>>786>>1840This. It's just a centrist pseudo cool movie. I mainly think because of this cringe interview
>>1325 from the director. You could really feel it during the last monologue joker gave at the show. It was like he was being some mouthpiece of some rich lib twitter righter calling for civility.
>>658>>507>>727Regardless as these anons said. I loved it when those rich rapey bankers got shot. And smiled gleefully during the protests. Watched it a second time today and liked it even more. I am going to interpret it as I want it.
I have taken the Jokerpill.
This movie is not a shitty drawn out unsubtle soapbox tweet from a 50 year old hack who brought us the Hangover movies but actually a bretty movie with nice music that looks cool. It's whatever we want it to be.
Take the Jokepill brothers and sisters. Start the Jokerposting. I know I will :DDD
<At last I have truly become the Joker.2019.1080p.BluRay.x264-[YTS.LT]!
No.4125
Okay so do radlibs solely hate Joker just because incels find it relatable? Because I’m shocked that radlibs still despise this film for effectively no reason.
No.4273
>>4270Usually I hate these kinds of posts, but this time its actually funny.
No.4361
>HURRDURR DIS IS LEFTIST
>HURRDURR DIS IS RITIST BRO…
Nigger why can't you just watch the film for what it is? It's a decent homage to Scorsese films and a pretty good film all around. I think it could have done a lot better, but it's not bad. The political message is whatever people self insert into it.
No.4363
>>4362"Bro is this leftist bro is this leftist", isn't analysis, it's self insertion. And it certainly doesn't make you a special non-consoomer.
No.4371
>>4361>homagemore like shitty rip off.
No.4923
>>4363>isn't analysis, it's self insertionTrue but no-one is saying this except out of ignorance. Joker has plenty of space for marxist analysis.
>>4371I wouldn't say so.
No.5673
it's not left wing or right wing. it isn't trying to push any positive agenda other than "things are far from perfect"
No.5934
>>5933WHY WOULD YOU POST REVIEWS THAT ARE IN RUSSIAN!?
No.5938
>>5934Checked quints, my wasteful dude.
>Why RussianBecause I speak the language and the reviews are quality stuff. The Russian reviewers all express leftist tendencies and are anti-capitalist.
No.6311
I find it interesting that the Joker is very different in this movie to his other iterations, a crazy person who breaks under social pressure of his poverty and simply stops caring about norms and just follows his ego. Compare this to the skilled criminal, with wits on par with Batman who, with sociopathic glee, creates chaos and masterminds crime.
No.6417
>>2Anyone have the video of the Female Joker dancing? It was nice.
No.6830
They're selling face-masks with the Joker smile on them now, neat.
No.7052
>>6311Isn't killing joke Joker pretty similar?
No.7064
>>7052He was more crazy and psychopathic and was killing random people for the most part. The entire point was a big fuck-you to batman.
The movie Joker, killed 3 asshole businessmen after being provoked and later the TV-showman who he was disillusioned and angry with. His murders weren't noble/revolutionary in their original context, but due to the circumstances came off that way. He also wasn't looking to kill, but to become accepted and celebrated, which is what he got.
No.7866
Just watched this, and although I enjoyed it and found it was good, something really bothers me about movies like these.
The entire portrayal of a 'freak' who is displayed as a charismatic, good looking guy turned invincible slaughterer couldn't be far from the truth. A real freak, or a mentally ill person is someone you would probably never relate with or feel sympathy for, just because of how royally fucked up and repulsive they might seem to be. Someone who wouldn't die as a martyr, but on a lonely death bed, or a ditch in god knows where. All the pseud, edgy conversation surrounding this movie by people who 'relate' to the protagonist, and would go on the next day making fun of people they deem fit to be so.
I guess the ultimate pill is, you really can never relate to a 'freak', maybe its a paradox.
No.7870
>>7866>who is displayed as a charismatic, good looking guyDid you watch the same movie as I did? He's a skinny mentally ill middle-aged dude. He isn't charismatic except in his own mind.
>turned invincible slaughtererHardly, he just lucked out in the situation
>A real freak, or a mentally ill person is someone you would probably never relate with or feel sympathy forHaving known a few 'freaks'… I disagree.
No.7962
>>7870I guess you should try leaving your house and interact with people.
No.8045
>>7962How is that an argument at all. If you think Arthur is anything like a charismatic, good-looking guy according to most people, you haven't paid attention to society
No.8053
>>7866That's almost always the case, seriously mentally ill are treated like tragic romantics or superhuman maniacs, when the reality is closer to something like an episode of hoarders.
No.8055
>>8053>mentally ill are treated like tragic romantics or superhuman maniacsWatch One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. The Joker is a tragic romantic he is shown as desperate and deluded, who wants to be admirable and admired but fails because he cannot understand how to do it right and his societal position only further handicaps him. And while a normal person just sucks it up and lives on, he loses it and goes on a mad streak of fame-inducing events.
No.8701
Literally poor man Scorsese 70's movie.
Was very bad imho.
No.8859
>>8856>Those Rambo III titlesKek
No.11129
>>8856The irony of your post is that conversation died after it was posted LOL. Revive you glorious thread.
No.11130
>>5934WHY WOULD YOU STEAL SUCH EPIC QUINTS?!
No.11133
Since this is a Joker thread I might as well ask this. Which version of Jokers - (in films, cartoons/comic-verses or games) - do you like the most?
Which do you hate/dislike?
Personally I think Nicholson plays a good Joker, but is overshadowed by Heath Ledger's Joker. The Joker in Mask of the Phantasm is essentially the same Joker as Batman TAS's Joker and was great. The Batman Beyond Joker was mediocre, it had a similar feel, but compared to the original dynamic was more boring, though Batman Beyond was still great.
Jared Leto was a hip-hop version of Joker that was just cringe… like most DC media of the current era.
Cesar Romero was memeworthy, but was a terrible Joker… (but then again Adam West was a cheesy AF Batman so whatever.
The Joker in Killing Joke was just a bit too edgy and insane to my tastes, compared to the comics, the film was meh. And the version where he killed himself by twisting his head until his neck broke is just obsurd.
I don't know anything about the game Jokers, but apparently one of them roids up or some shit, which was dumb.
No.11141
>>11133Just in general I've always had a preference for characterizations where he actually has a friendly sense of humor from time to time, like he will occasionally just drop the psychopathy and have a laugh with batman.
No.11151
>>11141Cheer's Batsy!
My favorite one is this
"See, there were these two guys in a lunatic asylum…and one night, one night they decide they don't like living in an asylum any more. They decide they're going to escape! So, like, they get up onto the roof and there, just across this narrow gap, they see the rooftops of the town, stretching away in the moonlight… stretching away to freedom. Now, the first guy, he jumps right across with no problem. But his friend, his friend daren't make the leap. Y'see…y'see, he's afraid of falling. So then, the first guy has an idea…He says 'Hey! I have my flashlight with me! I'll shine it across the gap between the buildings. You can walk along the beam and join me!' B-but the second guy just shakes his head. He suh-says… he says 'What do you think I am? Crazy? You'd turn it off when I was half way across!'" No.13218
Pic related is a good encapsulation of
>>11133 opinion
No.13219
>>8856Honestly while dark capeshit, or a breakdown of capeshit with real consequences is interesting, I feel that outside of escapist consumerism, it only works in films and portions. You see this with Joker (2019) and with Batman TAS and Mask of the Phantasm as they really break down the grime but in the case of TAS don't bog you down with grimdark shit, because that only works with media like Berserk which dedicates itself to that exploration. Where it doesn't work as well/gets bogged down IMO is in media like the recent arcs of BnHA - with its superpowered zombies and backstabbing and killing and deranged factionism reminiscent not of capitalist society, but of a feudal one. Stain had an impact because he was a stark contrast to normal villains and before that everything was still pretty upbeat.
The Joker doesn't go into this with all the 'powers' and crap, and instead hits home with real talk - the people, poor and hungry and uncared for, who are trying to live and struggle every day.
I'm sort of rambling here but my point is dark capeshit is good as singular films or arcs, but when you make massive TV series over it, it begins to get tiresome and edgy.
No.13298
>>743what happend to socialism or barberism's channel
No.13300
>>2353this image is wrong, e-girls drink white claw
No.19417
>>19416FYI this is an edited repost of another anon's stuff to bump the revived thread.
No.21848
Embedding error.
Anyone else think that Jim Carrey should play the Joker? He's a brilliantly skilled actor despite being typecast as a slap-stick comedian and honestly I think that his facial expressions and manic grins'd be perfect for an adaptation of the Joker, the best I could find is this deepfake but that's just it, a fake.
No.21849
>>21848Jim Carrey already played the Riddler in the old Batman movies, but yeah he would make more sense as the Joker.
No.21852
Mark Fisher would be proud, since the Joker is an analysis of the nihilistic hedonism of late capitalism. There is no politics in Gotham, and Arthur says it explicitly to Murray that he isn't political. The moment that Arthur loses his identity is the moment that he identifies with the clown that everyone sees in him, when he states that his life is a comedy and not a tragedy. When pressed about why he murdered those rich cunts, rather than defend himself (e.g. "they attacked me first") he immediately moralises - "I killed them because they were awful." In fact, his entire appearance on Murray's show devolves into moralisation, signaling his impotence. Even when he shoots Murray, it is an act of senseless rage hat further highlights the power he lacks. Arthur becomes the Joker when he loses all desire and becomes helplessly controlled by a pure drive towards destruction, internalizing a society that is itself self-destructive. The end of the movie is exactly what you'd expect: unguided chaos in a dying city stuck in a deadlock, with no hope of any change but it's own destruction, and the newly born Joker, apolitical and a slave to his impulses, becomes a symbol for it. On the same night, Batman is born when Thomas Wayne finally gets what he fuckin' deserves.
Truth is that it isn't a political movie at all, which is what makes it so political. The creators simply wanted to give a realistic backstory for the Joker, asking how Gotham city might have created him. What they ended up with was a tragic situation so traumatic that in the protagonist must view it as a comedy in order to survive, and that such a situation reflects the state of many under late capitalism so well is striking. One must wonder why so many liberal reviewers seem to hate the movie for it's nihilistic core. What did they expect to see, of course it's nihilistic because it's about the Joker…right?
No.24065
>>21849Yeah he really didn't fit the role of Riddler IMO, it's too close to the parodic Adam West Riddler and like most of Batman and Robin, really didn't fit the set up that Burton made in the prior 2 Batman films.
No.24069
>>13219I think you could do a TV show or some other long-form thing out of it but the catch is that to keep it fresh and not get too grimdark, you would have to keep changing status quo and premise. A show that pulled that off recently was The Good Place, and a similar format could work for something critical of capeshit (or any other ossified genre fiction standing in as allegory for real society). But to do that you would have to dedicate the whole product to it and commit to a series arc that took you through whatever conflict actually does change things, with each "season" or whatever division handling some distinct stage of the process, whether that involves an unstable situation progressively breaking down or progress in the struggle to overturn things.
No.30982
>>27717Honestly I don't think it should be continued, it's going to be hard to find a decent plot continuation that doesn't feel contrived.
No.31905
>>30982I agree. Just make another thing.
>>31898How the fuck did you break the site?
No.31926
>>31905 I didn't, the Embed was fine before, something fucked up a ton of Embeds across the site a month ago.
No.31927
>>30982When I first heard about Joker sequel, I just rolled my eyes at the obvious cashgrap that it was, and then I heard it is supposed to be a musical starring lady Gaga, and I am fully on board.
No.31941
>>31927>a musical starring lady Gaga It better be her being an arrogant cunt brought low by the Joker's machinations.
No.31977
I don’t think it’s leftist and it was more of a liberals attempt to demonstrate the very bad awful mayhem that could result from a “society” in the abstract that turns its back on certain undesirables or social outcasts. That’s bad because it stops capitalism from running smoothly and riles up the masses. With the absence of Batman this subtext about maintaining order under capitalism isn’t quite as apparent but it’s still there because Joker inadvertently causes the death of Bruce Waynes parents. Of course, from a leftist perspective you could look at all the chaos of heightened protests that result in rioting at the end as not necessarily a bad thing, but the subtext is pretty obviously trying to point you in a different direction. You’re supposed to fear the unattended consequences of a small boys wealthy parents dying as a result of all these events. This also foreshadows Batman who is symbolically a paragon of the forces attempting to maintain order under capitalism.
No.37205
Heath Ledger's Joker is (for good reason) considered one of the best Joker depictions in live action. What people don't know or have forgotten is that a large portion of the Dark Knight films' aesthetics are taken from the fantastic 90s film, The Crow.
Chris Nolan stated that the look and cadence for Joker were based on Brandon Lee's performance and role. The crow symbol being painted on walls and the burning gas Crow symbol was also used for the burning Batman logo in those same films. Ghost Rider and DareDevil also used this idea (pic 2 rel). Moreover the dark humor and violence is also similar, with the Crow taking hits intentionally as did the Joker while calmly replying.
As a side note, there's also a connection to Keanu Reeves. Back in the 90s it was rumored that role of Neo was written with Brandon Lee in mind, which if you look at The Crow's trenchcoat you can see the aesthetics of, and considering Brandon Lee's martial arts training and that Keanu hadn't really played such serious roles at the time, makes sense. Lee's stunt-double and friend, Chad Stahelski, was also Keanu's stunt-double in The Matrix, and later went on to Co-direct Keanu's other hit performance, John Wick.
The Crow in general had huge influence on films after itself despite being rather obscure itself, even in more tragic areas, as Brandon Lee's death due to the gun mishap lead to a lot of changes made in filming as a result. Big time safety precautions were put into law that pertain to film sets. There were no incidents for a long time after this film fortunately, because of these safety changes. Unfortunately not everyone got on board and took safety for granted, like on the set of that Alec Baldwin film.
No.37255
>>27555Thanks, I was just looking for it.
No.40517
>>13217fuck this faggot this joker was based
No.40529
>>40518> I don’t know if I would call it leftist since Joker doesn’t have a coherent ideology and is just acting on vengeful instinct. The whole point of the movie is that he doesn't and what happens is driven by material circumstances rather than some belief system.
>The shooting of the bankers snowballing into mass riotsIt's just the spark that ignites the tinder. The whole movie is spent showing conditions in the city deteriorating. Arthur Fleck is just one person experiencing social decay.
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