No.41241[Last 50 Posts]
so i finished watching the entire series and something made me feel uneasy. starting with episode 6 and going into episode 7 the show takes a very political turn. a turn against capitalism and an actual, intended or not, positive portray of communism. almost directly actually. at least, it takes the blame completely away from communism, portray some of the communist in the show as actually good people fighting against the evils of capitalism. at least those to be heavily hinted at as being communist. which made me very delighted but then it dawned to me, this is a amazon prime production based off a video game from bethesda who is now owned by microsoft. three massive, very capitalist, corporations that have shown time again to be very for profit.
but even if we remove the debate whether or not communist being portrayed as good did happen in the show, the show itself was extremely critical of capitalism and that makes me wonder why these billion dollar corporations that are the epitome of why capitalism is bad, be telling its viewers, the very nature of amazon, bethesda, and microsft, everything they stand for, the people who made the show and games, are bad? why would they want their consumers to hate the very thing that allows these elites, these companies, to exist in the first place?
is it some sort of chess move i don't understand? have we reached a state where capitalism could very well nuke the planet and people won't care so these companies don't care if criticism about them is made? or more wishful thinking, they think this will spare them from the revolution? i don't understand their move here. i don't expect capitalist companies to allow people to hate them.
No.41242
>he believes criticizing capitalism harms it
you poor summer child
No.41243
>>41242so my comment here:
>have we reached a state where capitalism could very well nuke the planet and people won't care so these companies don't care if criticism about them is madei don't want to be that demoralized.
No.41244
>>41241>have we reached a state where capitalism could very well nuke the planet and people won't care so these companies don't care if criticism about them is made?Yes, capitalist society was always very self aware of itself and its cruelty, yet revolution did not come.
No.41245
>>41241Read up on Marcuse's concept of repressive desublimation, it explains this.
No.41246
Repressive desublimation is a term, first coined by Frankfurt School philosopher and sociologist Herbert Marcuse in his 1964 work One-Dimensional Man, that refers to the way in which, in advanced industrial society (capitalism), "the progress of technological rationality is liquidating the oppositional and transcending elements in the “higher culture.”[1] In other words, where art was previously a way to represent "that which is" from "that which is not,"[2] capitalist society causes the "flattening out"[3] of art into a commodity incorporated into society itself. As Marcuse put it in One-Dimensional Man, "The music of the soul is also the music of salesmanship."
By offering instantaneous, rather than mediated, gratifications,[4] repressive desublimation was considered by Marcuse to remove the energies otherwise available for a social critique; and thus to function as an emancipating dynamic under the guise of collectivist politics.
No.41248
le marxist reading of shitty pop culture thread
No.41249
is the show good tho
No.41251
>>41241What if tyranny is freedom and nuclear war means world peace *sniff*
No.41252
>>41246Did you seriously copy-pasta wikipedia without using greentext or removing the citation numbers? LMAO
No.41259
>>41241well yeah its tv (or streaming skeuomorphism of it), of course it's backed by mass media oligopoly corps. also vaguely leftist messaging is in vogue rn
>>41249probably. havent watched yet but the only criticism ive seen of it is that it visually looks the wrong way and and incels kvetching about "canon"
No.41261
>>41241Idk man it just looks like painfully mid streaming slop. I guess "fine" video game adaptations are the future now that the capeshit well has finally run dry.
No.41262
>>41259why is your post history filled with talking about "incels"
No.41266
>>41265woooooowwwwwwwwiee i love politics in my pop culture…… doesnt matter how bad the writing is.. it agrees with me!!!!!!
No.41299
>>41266didn't say it was good lol
No.41303
>>41260they probably just did not want to make one of the main leads “unattractive” he is a walking corpse without a nose and skin, but he is still as conveniently attractive as a skinless corpse can be.
No.41305
>>41303tumblr is mad horny for him
No.41309
>>41241anti-capitalism is just another commodity. that's one reason that capitalism is such a resilient system: if you hate captalism, great, there's this guy Marx,
I'll sell you his book. weak regimes need to suppress dissent: you couldn't buy books about how the Shah was a cunt in Imperial Iran because the Shah was a cunt who was, as history showed, had only a tenuous grasp on power. To sell such literature is to risk emboldening an opposition movement - but under a regime as strong as contemporary global capitalism, where the logic of profit always compels you to act in alignment with the system, there is no serious risk of that happening. The free competition of anti-capitalist commodities and fashions has the comfortable side effect of leading people down the garden path towards totally wasting their time. Look at contemporary political discourse like you'd look at any other fandom and everything slots into place.
what's really odd is that there aren't more defeatists out there. many people will turn from left to right or from right to left, but far fewer will log off and find some other way to waste their time. No.41310
>>41309are you having a laugh? 90% of people are defeatists. practically everyone knows that our system is broken and thinks politicians are lower than dirt
No.41311
>>41310most of them still vote or engage on some level, even if only to scorn their leaders. they're defeated because they gave up at the first hurdle. they didn't get "into politics" to begin with. what's odd is that there aren't more people who
did, but ultimately analysed the situation and concluded that they've got as much political agency as they have agency over the motion of the planets. it's not rare for disillusioned socdems to become communists, disillusioned communists to become liberals, and for disillusioned liberals to turn to fascism, but very rarely do they simply give up and become gardeners.
imagine if it turned out that the outcome of every sporting event was rigged and the response of sports fans was to
swap teams and it might illustrate the oddity i'm getting at.
No.41312
>>41311>what's odd is that there aren't more people who did, but ultimately analysed the situation and concluded that they've got as much political agency as they have agency over the motion of the planetsyou seriously underestimate the people who think like this. they just didn't get 'into politics' in the first place. arguably we're the fucking dumb and naive ones for actually thinking anything can be changed
No.41326
>>41241Itchy & Scratchy tier violence. Halfway through the first episode I started rolling my eyes after the 10th or so “are you hecking shocked yet!!” slasher gore. A complete surface level understanding about Fallout, le vault and l’exploding body.
No.41328
>>41262rapefugees from crystal cafe never stop getting mad at men even in discussions that don't talk about and aren't focused on men
No.41330
Semi related posts
>>38053 and
>>40750 No.41332
>>41241It's because rhetoric doesn't matter anymore. It doesn't matter who wins the "hearts and minds". The average person believes (mostly correctly) that they have zero control over how society functions, so capitalists don't have to put any effort into propaganda. If anything by co-opting leftist messaging, they can defang it, and make it look like it's part of the system.
No.41347
>>41241The message is "progressive capital good, monopoly capital bad". The anti war activists are not communists, they're only scapegoated as such. Moldaver plainly states she isn't a communist. That subplot is actually a simplification of one of the core themes of Fallout in line with the simplification of the IP as a whole. In that case, the structural forces that caused the nuclear war were dumbed down into a conspiracy carried out by an evil cabal of monopolists with nonsensical motivations. More broadly, the purpose of a TV show like any cultural commodity is to turn a profit or to act as advertising for another product and Fallout has been successful in that respect.
No.41353
>>41349
Actually it was aliens you fake fan. Real gamers know.
No.41354
>>41347>>41349Nuclear war because of some conspiracy of arch-porkies replacing the original reason of inevitable and systemic political breakdown is almost "jews did it" levels of schizo scapegoating.
No.41356
>>41354>>41354I read that piece of lore on wiki, but I have no idea which game it is from.
No.41357
>>41353Fallout 3 player detected. In earlier games, It was an AI who did it out of boredom.
No.41358
>>41356Isn't it from FO2? So you can't even blame Bethesda for it.
No.41365
>>41241>a turn against capitalism and an actual, intended or not, positive portray of communismIts clearly intentional. People yearn for an alternative for the current system but communism as a movement have failed to provide one after the fall of USSR discredited our ideology.
No.41367
>fallout fans being mad that a piece of fallout media contradicts the lore
My brothers in Christ, fallout has been doing this since fallout 2
No.41368
>>41367can you read the thread before posting?
No.41373
>>41328average crystal cafe denizen doesnt care about incels, especially considering theyre just opposite sex version of them anyways
No.41374
>>41373thats never stopped them before
No.41375
1/3 through the first episode
im really glad succession management training guy gets plot armor
No.41379
>story
boring, telegraphed
>characters
shallow, no chemistry, mediocre acting
>set pieces
cheap, bland
The games weren't cultural masterpieces, but they were entertaining as post-apocalyptic sandboxes in which lots of individual stories could be told. An anthology series would have been more appropriate for the IP, but they decided not to do that and instead they delivered a weak main story, which is a literal fetch quest, and even weaker characters. I mean, Lucy is supposed to be this sheltered and innocent vault dweller and in less than a week she has zero qualms about sawing off the head of a kind stranger and then she just cheerfully, nonchalantly carries it around as if what she did wasn't horrific and traumatizing for her. She even pets it like she's some kind of retarded psychopath. What kind of character progression is that? Where is the pain of abandoning everything you have ever learned, where is the trial and error struggle of learning how to survive in the wasteland? The BoS guy's case is even worse, he has zero background except for that fucking refrigerator scene that they flashback to like half a dozen times. His story has 2 whole components: 1) he wants power and authority, 2) he wants to fuck Lucy. In the last episode he's offered 1) by a BoS elder but that might bring him into conflict with Lucy jeopardizing 2). So compelling!!
I'll say it again, the show might have succeeded as an anthology series. Give us the story of a prisoner escaping an NCR chain gang who joins a group of highwaymen in order to survive, and the story of the bighorn rancher who struggles to maintain his business amid the attacks of those same highwaymen on his convoys, or a story about a farmer who loses his family to a deathclaw and makes it his life's mission to hunt it down. More complicated stories about duty, loyalty and morality could be told using the different factions as frames. The FO world is fleshed out enough for hundreds of these stories and any one of them would be better than the garbage this TV show has delivered.
P.S. check out Fallout: Red Star for a good film/tv adaptation of fallout.
No.41381
>>41379>Where is the pain of abandoning everything you have ever learnedThey make it pretty clear that her vault is preparing to go to the surface. Her dad literally says the plan is for her kids to be the generation that starts settling up there. And in the beginning it shows that the vault is actively training people in useful skills. It's basically explained that she's The Type to be an adventurer anyway, so that gets a pass tbh. You raise other good points though.
>I'll say it again, the show might have succeeded as an anthology series.From a business perspective it did succeed. The mass audience they want wouldn't be interested in an anthology, especially not on an episode-by-episode basis. Maybe something like True Detective doing a different plot each season.
No.41383
>>41381>They make it pretty clear that her vault is preparing to go to the surfaceI get that they're planning to settle the surface, the whole Reclamation Day thing, I just found her reactions and behavior tonally jarring.
>From a business perspective it did succeedRight, and an anthology would make it more difficult for the showrunners to create suspense at the end of every episode to keep people watching. I still think that conceptually it's the better format for an adapting the games - exploring many side quests instead of just one contrived main quest, so to speak.
No.41384
>>41383Alternatively they could have a single protagonist or party but just be an episodic show instead of serialized. Back in the day TV was allowed to be a bunch of mostly separate episodes but now in the age of binge-streaming it all has to be serialized. You can't do anything like Star Trek used to be where the same characters explore a different story and idea each episode.
No.41385
Also I think they're trying to reproduce the choice & consequence of the games by giving us three protagonists that represent the three choices the player is usually presented with in encounters. Hence Lucy = good karma, Max = neutral karma, Ghoul = evil karma. The characters are definitely shallow enough for this to be plausible.
No.41386
>>41384>single protagonist or party but just be an episodic show instead of serializedYeah, that would be pretty cool. But then they couldn't depend on puzzle boxes to keep the audience engaged. Why change the formula if it works?
No.41389
>>41379>I mean, Lucy is supposed to be this sheltered and innocent vault dweller and in less than a week she has zero qualms about sawing off the head of a kind stranger and then she just cheerfully, nonchalantly carries it around as if what she did wasn't horrific and traumatizing for her. She even pets it like she's some kind of retarded psychopath.That tracks with being sheltered. She still hasn't fully comprehended the concept of mortality and social mores around the handling of dead bodies.
No.41390
>>41389is that really any different from what the average player would do
in new vegas you basically wake up and almost immediately get into a shootout where you kill half a dozen men
No.41393
>>41390Thats the difference of the medium, slow fizzling SUCKS in videogames, but they are great in series
No.41403
>>41389Also in her vault, dead bodies are unceremoniously tossed into a composting machine. So she definitely does not care about giving a corpse "dignity" or whatever.
>>41390Mutilating a corpse is different than killing someone.
No.41405
capital subsumes all criticism of it. this is nothing new
>>41249it's
acceptablethere's various ways in which it deviates from the timeline which as someone who's played the series since FO1 is annoying. the way the BoS is portrayed is very much Bethesda's nu-BoS that engages with its surroundings, starts fights with surrounding factions etc. this is very unlike the BoS in FO1 and FO2 where they're very insular. in FO1 they send you on a suicidal fetch quest to get rid of you when you ask to join them
>>41260I think Cooper Howard is actually an FEV mutant like Harold, not a ghoul. this because he still has his ears. Cooper is also evasive when Lucy asks him how he got the way he is ("something like that"). but that theory requires Bethesda to care about the lore, which they don't, so it might just be that makeup is easier if you leave the ears alone
>>41379>An anthology series would have been more appropriate for the IPI thought it was going to be an anthology for about half the first episode which had me more excited for the series. sadly they didn't do that
>>41382now we're talking. indeed the desire to achieve a perfect monopoly is one of the cornerstones of communist economics. antitrust laws are historically regressive and an expression of petty bourgeois jealousy
No.41406
>>41405>I think Cooper Howard is actually an FEV mutant like Harold, not a ghoul. this because he still has his ears.There's other ghouls in the show with the same type of design.
No.41408
>>41406a makeup decision then I guess
No.41412
You know, they really should explore other areas of the USA. I mean all we've sees is the northeast coast and the Califorina/Mohave Southwest.
I really would love a Fallout series in the Pacific Northwest. Would be a nice change of scenery compared to the constand desert/badlands look of typical Fallout. Hell would have a good way to introduce new mutated animals. Like those intelligent Raccoons that were scrapped from the game. Or even like mutated Orcas or Salmon and other sea-life. Even having a group civilized raders based on Vikings that made their home in Ballard. And accounting for Seattles cosmopolitan culture, could even have like a ghoul buddhist monk still upholding the temple with new converts.
I mean it would give a excellent chance to explore a culture that isn't the NCR or Brotherhood of Steel for the umphteenth time.
No.41413
>>41412Midwest/flyover states would be a pretty good location.
No.41418
>>41412I always thought a fallout set in Florida would be a kick. Giant mutant gators. Yeehaw.
No.41428
>>41413chicago or detroit would be cool to look at, especially how they developed in the pre-war world in the fallout universe
but most of america is samey enough anyways that aesthetically there wouldnt be much difference
No.41430
i finished bingeing it yesterday
i liked it
it weaved the fallout setting as best as it could into a more motion picture narrative that was entertaining
lots of cool inspiration from westerns, especially with the ghoul character who walton goggins is fucking perfect for
No.41431
>>41430also lmao @ michael rapaport playing the douchey bos knight
this guy really channels himself in his roles
No.41432
>>41430>it weaved the fallout setting as best as it could into a more motion picture narrative that was entertainingobviously the only thing that can be entertaining is reddit jokes and self-references and not telling an actually good and engaging story
No.41434
>>41432>reddit jokes and self-referenceswhat are examples of these
No.41477
Watched it, I liked it. I don't care if it's recuperation when they literally say "monopoly capitalism" (can you name another show that speaks it out this openly?) and all that, art and entertainment can never be fully subsumed under capital, it's not "repressive desublimation" or whatever, "One Dimensional Man" is the work of Marcuse that moved him further away from Marxism by the way. Basically what some anons are implying is that anti-capitalist art can ipso facto not exist, which is ridiculous. I guess Frida Kahlo didn't exist.
Yes, there is the phenomenon of radical art being recuperated to perpetuate capitalism, this isn't a pristine or new insight, in fact, this Fallout show makes the exact same point - of course, under the guise of not taking itself too seriously. It's an Amazon show produced by Bethesda, directed by one of the Nolan brothers, it's not coming from a "radical" perspective, which is exactly why it isn't recuperation, there is nothing to recuperate - in contrast to like Che shirts for example, who went from the mortal enemy of the West to a popcultural icon.
The show makes a more intelligent point that is still easy to understand for the audience, more than just "corporations are bad" like The Boys: VaultTec sells post-apocalyptic bunkers, so it is in their interest to fight peace negotiations. It hits pretty well with the current climate, where peace negotiations are sabotaged on behalf of the military-industrial complex, in Ukraine for example. It's still very satirical, but if you think about the actual story without the over-the-top imagery, it's actually pretty bleak.
So yeah, good show. I don't know why people complain about the acting, the black dude wasn't too good, but what's wrong with the chick who played Lizzy? Also, the set pieces were DEFINITELY not cheap.
One criticism I have is that Jonathan Nolan just copy-pasted the "man in black" character from Westworld 100% with Cooper/the Ghoul. I mean that is so obvious, I thought it was Ed Harris under that make-up.
No.41485
>>41479Most of the well-known modern shows offer a vague critique of capitalism, true, but they never spell it out (The Boys, Westworld, etc. all have an anti-capitalist spin but refuse to say the "c-word").
No.41486
>>41473wonder how the borderlands show will do compared to this. if it gets the views it's probably gonna contribute to spawning a glut of post-apoc salvagepunk media.
No.41490
i couldn't get past the first episode. it's kinda funny, but I couldn't help it, when I saw those toys on their wrists and the tacky looking jumpsuits I just got instantly reminded of bethesda and what sort of company they are. every movie, tv, and videogame is a product I know but if I'm hyper aware of it while consuming the thing I can't' enjoy it. that's partly why i don't like anything star wars, not even the original trilogy. i couldn't get into one piece either.
also the why's the production value of these netflix shows so bad? everything just looks cheap and the lighting is kinda off nothing is shot in an interesting way. it's iconically shit at this point. apple can make good looking shows. severance for example.
No.41491
>>41490It's prime not netflix.
No.41492
>>41491oh. well, it looks like shit.
No.41495
>>41490Films from half a century ago with a tenth of the budget had better lighting and shots.
No.41496
It's an excellent show and the irony that Amazon is basically Vault Tec makes it even better, I fucking love dystopian capitalism making fun of itself for momey
No.41498
>>41490I cant explain exactly why, but the show looks like a comercial. The lighting is so flat, high contrast colours, everything looking way to clean and plasticky.
No.41500
>>41490>muh realismit's based on a goofy crpg series that's also cartoonish and unrealistic in its own right
No.41502
naturalism is a stupid standard to hold motion picture works to
visual stylism isn't a sin
No.41503
The show didn't make me feel anything. The plot is strung together with a mishmash of coincidences with no rhyme or reason beyond narrative necessity. The Enclave scientist stumbles into the protagonist in the middle of the wasteland. Max is singled out and promoted so he can start his adventure. Max and the knight happen to land in the exact place where the scientist had lunch. The knight immediately dies so max can get the armor. Everyone converges at the same town at the same time. The entire show is like this and it feels so fucking lazy. The fight scenes are ruined by the 50s music, slow motion, poorly timed comedic relief: "Get that jelly mold out of here!". There are traces of good storytelling in the show (the encounter between the ghoul and the other ghoul, the organ farm sequence, the voting sequence and concurrent Norman subplot, the ghoul-governmint scene) but these are exceptions from the rule.
>>41498the cinematography bad by modern standards. it's artless, but competent. If you mute it, set the saturation to zero, raise contrast, lower gamma, and fix the speed you can see that some shots would be pretty good if it wasn't for the music, sets, costumes, and actors.
No.41509
>>41506>They could have shown pre-war america as it was described in the games: militarized, chaotic, impoverished, but they made it look idyllic in the show and they did the same in the intro to FO4intro to fo4 only shows idyllic suburbia but the rest of the game definitely shows hints of what the actual real world outside of that suburbia is like, like the kim wu logs
in the intro scene to the series, there's red scare talk between the gossiping suburbanites, and in howard's flashbacks it shows his acting roles becoming more violent and warlike
No.41511
>>41506They don't just namedrop capitalism (which is still a rare thing in mainstream productions, there are people like Boots Riley but he's more of an indie producer - Jonathan Nolan's Westworld had plenty of theme that worked as a critique of capitalism, but never once called it that), they show a simple logic chain about the weapons industry having an objective interest in launching WWIII. This is something the average normie can easily digest.
>The pre-war controversy is between the American Dream (equal opportunity capitalism that brings prosperity to all who work) and the monopoly capitalism that killed it.I mean, this is kind of what happened? For all those who were allowed to participate in the American Dream (e.g. not including blacks, Irish catholics, Chinese and other minorities) it did exist unter the Hamiltonian "American System" until, well, monopoly capitalism killed it.
>It's a fantasy conflict for a fantasy world and it's impossible to translate that message into reality.I guess I heavily disagree, French enlightenment era thinkers were forced to only write comedies, or about Asian fantasy lands, to avoid censorship by the crown. Again, I already mentioned Boots Riley, and he caught some flak for being out in the open with his beliefs, and even he has to use the guise of comedy, satire and fantasy.
>>41503>The show didn't make me feel anything. The plot is strung together with a mishmash of coincidences with no rhyme or reason beyond narrative necessity. The Enclave scientist stumbles into the protagonist in the middle of the wasteland. Max is singled out and promoted so he can start his adventure. Max and the knight happen to land in the exact place where the scientist had lunch. The knight immediately dies so max can get the armor. Everyone converges at the same town at the same time. I agree with all of this, but writers who do their own world-building are always guilty of this. Everyone bumps into each other in Lord of the Rings too, which is regarded as a masterpiece of narration. But yeah, they really fast-forwarded that, with everyone converging in episode two.
> scientist had lunch. The knight immediately dies so max can get the armor. Everyone converges at the same town at the same time. The entire show is like this and it feels so fucking lazy. The fight scenes are ruined by the 50s music, slow motion, poorly timed comedic reliefI don't mind comedic relief because the show is already far out there with their overall theme, with ridiculous premises, so I am glad it doesn't take itself too seriously. But I agree with the 50s music, I mean I generally don't like that type of music, some really dig it, but I've never understood the appeal to own the entire discography of Johnny Cash or whatever. Shit is just boring and even lacks the technical skill you can appreciate in Jazz (although I hate Jazz too). But they were really overdoing it, they sort of reduced that shit towards the end which is a bit more serious.
>the cinematography bad by modern standards.That was also the weakness in Nolan's Westworld, IMO.
No.41512
>>41509Sure, but that's nothing compared to how it could have been represented. Imagine this: the ghoul was a veteran who fought in Alaska, like in the show, but when he returns he doesn't become a movie star and instead gets a regular job and marries a low-level Vault-Tec employee. They live in a small suburban house on the outskirts of LA. He returns (walking, to save fuel for his car) from his work at the munitions factory, where labor discipline is strictly enforced, late in the evening and the family sits around the table to have a dinner that consists of spam and beans from the government food bank. He asks his daughter what she learned in school that day and it was some propaganda narrative about the Alaska campaign. He gets angry and starts explaining that it's all bullshit and his wife tries to calm him down but they're silenced by a power blackout. His co-worker friend is arrested for being a subversive and he convinces his wife to attend an anti-war demonstration with him. At the protest, vertibirds equipped with loudspeakers declare that it's an unlawful assembly and that it will be dispersed with force. The demonstrators are stunned by a sonic generator and MP stormtroopers start pulling people out of the crowd for summary execution. The ghoul and his wife are separated and he sees her get executed as he's fleeing from the scene. He returns home and flees the city with his daughter, crashing through a military checkpoint while the bombs drop behind him.
All of the other pre-war characters could have been similarly modified to preserve the exposition while communicating a strong message that pre-war america is a deeply sick society locked in an unwinnable war for resources. Maybe the ghoul could have remained an actor, but he stars in a role playing an american soldier fighting a racist caricature of the chinese like in American anti-japanese ww2 propaganda. His wife is Chinese-American and she gets sent to a concentration camp and when he protests he gets ostracized as a communist sympathizer a la red scare. Anything but the softcore bullshit we're treated to in the show.
No.41513
>>41511>they show a simple logic chainWe're Marxists, we know that the show's logic is incoherent. A ceasefire would supercharge the arms industry into another arms race and Vault-Tec could continue making billions from selling spaces in their vaults to paranoiac Americans. It's more of a critique of PMCs since the antagonists post-war (bud's buds) are all middle-managers.
>I mean, this is kind of what happened?I don't want to quibble over the details of this point, because I broadly agree. I meant that the conflict as presented poorly represents the circumstances: a social order in its terminal death phase that's in the process of cannibalizing the world for profit.
No.41515
>>41511>Everyone bumps into each other in Lord of the Rings too, which is regarded as a masterpiece of narration. Not to derail this thread into LoTR discussion, but where do people bump into each other? Tom Bombadil rescue, and thats it as far as I can think of.
No.41516
oh my god imagine how bad the disco elysium amazon adaptation is going to be
No.41517
>>41515The Fellowship doesn't just bump into each other, since they're explicitly a team put together for a mission, but there are a few examples.
>bilbo bumps into gollum and the ring in the backstory>frodo and sam bump into faramir>merry and pippin bump into treebeardofc somebody could make jokes about "pippin bumps into a skeleton and then gandalf bumps into a balrog" or whatever, but these examples are pretty much coincidences. LotR has the caveat that there's an actual God character and some lesser divinities guiding the events with intent that the story goes a certain way.
No.41518
>>41513I wasn't talking about Marxists, when you don't make something satirical the message will fly over people's heads. How many people know that The Matrix was influenced by Baudrillard? One of the best anticapitalist shows I've watched recently was Severance, and people didn't even seem to get that.
>a social order in its terminal death phase that's in the process of cannibalizing the world for profit.A civilization in death spiral also shows remarkable signs of decadence by the leisure class. I thought that this was protrayed in Cooper's backstory, and the Hollywood/Beverly Hills enviroment he was surrounded with.
No.41519
>>41516Fuck you for reminding me.
No.41520
>>41518The best satire flies over people's heads, actually.
No.41523
>>41516why do you choose to speak evil into existence
No.41528
>we've all already explored every possible postapoc possibility, repeatedly
>never played the game but still felt compelled to watch this
>downloaded first ep
>flicked through it in 30 sec jumps in vlc
>party
>thermonuclear apocalypse
>survivor civilization in bunker
>marines or something
>compulsion disappears
>5 mins instead of 10 hours
>feels good man
No.41529
>>41528wow, you stop enjoying something when it's a bunch of disjointed shots? who knew
No.41530
>>41528don't worry I'm sure somebody will chop it up into 30 second tiktoks/shorts for you to consoom
No.41535
Just finished it. It's ok, which is a lot better than most of these adaptations.
The biggest problem for me is the overarching plot feels pretty contrived for the sake of having a story to tell for a neat season of TV. The way that the plot threads come together makes the setting feel too small. If you want it to feel like a big open world, you want everything to be connected to other things out there. You want it to seem like there's always more you haven't seen. As the Ghoul says "thou shalt always be sidetracked by bullshit." I get they wanted to have a complete arc for the main characters this season, but they didn't have to
all converge on the same plot point.
Teasing
New Vegas for season 2 makes me think they are going to really fuck up the lore and cause way more arguments.
>>41241You are right about the show being pretty on the nose anti-capitalism. The bad character monologuing about the evil plan does it while staring down the barrel of the camera, explaining to the audience the capitalist basis of the motivations. Amazon and Bethesda don't care though because it will make them money. But hey, if they incidentally lead more people to think capitalism is bad, then it's a win-win. They'll sell us the rope we hang them with, and so on.
You're wrong about the communist part though. There's no communists in the show. The main person from that group outright says they're not communists, and calling people communists is just a scapegoat and a cope.
No.41536
what the fuck are you talking about? who are the communist characters in the show? there's not even any chinese.
No.41537
>>41536I'm tired of people sucking up any vague toothless "anti-capitalism" in fucking pop culture and ignoring everything else (actual writing, design, characterization…).
No.41538
>>41537oh, i loved the show. op just got me annoyed cause i had the impression that the show went out of their way to say the hollywood people were *not* communists and the US was in a mcarthyist frenzy. politically it's important to distinguish between anti-capitalism and communism.
but you could say the trends of concentration and centralization of capital will inevitably lead to a singular company like vault-tec essentially usurping the power of the state (which is after-all, nothing but the bourgeois organized). and from that point organizing nuclear war so they can rebuild it in the aftermath. that's a fun idea.
in the show though it comes off a bit cabally i think though.
No.41539
>>41538The "communists" aren't even anti-capitalist though. They are just mad at Vault Tec for
keeping cold fusion hidden as a trade secret instead of letting their company sell it to the world.
No.41552
Is this show actually worth watching or all the podcasters lying to me?
No.41558
>>41552It's only 8 episodes so no great loss if you don't like it. Unless you're a fan of the series I'm not sure what the appeal is other than more content to consoom. It's above average for streaming shows though for sure. There were obviously people working on it who cared and tried to make it good.
No.41559
>>41558>It's only 8 episodes so no great loss if you don't like it.Dude that's 8 hours. You should value your free time more.
No.41560
>>41559um you can split it up into weekly watch sessions
it's got a "previously on…" montage at the beginning of every episode, like old tv shows, as well
No.41561
>>41560Life is pretty short. The 3-episode rule is king.
No.41563
>>41504>it's a marketing vessel for FO4More like marketing for Fallout 76 with its millions microtransactions.
No.41564
>>41558>I'm not sure what the appeal is other than more content to consoom.I like how the franchise popularizes the idea of a nuclear war for the masses. Its a difficult subject that people like to avoid so its important to make it light and fun like this show.
No.41574
>>41559You can also just stop watching it if you don't like it. I usually watch stuff and play games while doing some cardio.
>>41564>I like how the franchise popularizes the idea of a nuclear war for the masses. I guess? It's kind of making it out as something you shouldn't take so seriously though. Like everything in the universe is unrealistic (which is the point)
No.41575
>>41564The point of the first Fallout game came from the wuesyion, "What if our (America's) Cold War 1950's fears were real?". That and it was meant to explore the ethics of a post-nuclear world. Besthedsa made it into a 1950's sci-fi theme park set after the bimbs just fell.
Vid relayed
No.41586
Just got done watching it. My expectations for this was in the toilet, but it was surprisingly alright while being laughably predictable. The only surprise to me was that they managed to keep their dick in their pants and only cameo'd a deathclaw at the end.
No.41594
>>41575Maybe this gets brought up in those videos, haven't watched, but it's like how the first two games only use the 50's doo wop music shit in the intro and it's clearly non diegetic, it sets the tone for the audience but in universe just because it uses a retro-futuristic atompunk aesthetic doesn't mean they would literally still be listening to music that is at that point hundreds of years old
then in bethesda fallout the 50s music becomes diegetic on the pip boy radio with absolutely no justification.
No.41595
>>41594>Maybe this gets brought up in those videosit does. one of them cuts a battle scene from nu-Fallout with FO2 where the latter is just ambience. they also point out that FO1/2
isn't 50's retrofuturist America because that world got blown up. you'd expect the people inhabiting the post-war world to not want to recreate the antebellum world since, you know, it led to the War
No.41597
>>41596problem is if you want there to be no civilization you can't set your show hundreds of years after the war. you'll want to set it just after the war. Shady Sands was founded just 20 years after the war. there's no reason to think industry wouldn't start up again. Redding and Broken Hills are both active mining towns in 2241
No.41598
>>41594>then in bethesda fallout the 50s music becomes diegetic on the pip boy radio with absolutely no justification.The justification is implied in the sense that the industry capable of producing the media no longer exists, but they still have all the old stuff sitting around. The original creators don't seem to have a problem with the radio since they included it in New Vegas. They even parodied the LARPy aspects of FO3 with The Kings, while also making that actually make some sense, since they're basically a cargo cult who thought Elvis was a religious figure.
No.41599
>>41596another thing one of the videos bring up is the use of bottle caps on the east coast. within FO1/2 and even FO:T caps aren't the only currency in use. they're sometimes called Hub bucks in FO1, and they're useless in FO2, having been supplanted by NCR dollars (except the different types of scrip used in Redding). you can even find a crashed Nuka Cola truck with thousands of worthless caps in a random encounter in FO2. in FO:T the Brotherhood has its own scrip, while the surrounding wasteland uses ring pulls. there's only one merchant in FO:T that exchanges scrip for RPs I think
it would have been far more interesting for Bethesda to pick something else as the medium of exchange other than caps
No.41684
>>41683part of the reason they structure shows like this has to do with industry rules for how many episodes you have to be in to be counted as main cast for things like awards
No.41689
>>41688That belongs more in the Chernobyl thread TBH
>>9068 Also did you take that from
>>>/edu/21949 ?
No.41732
>>41689>That belongs more in the Chernobyl thread TBH >>9068 But it's about fallout lore and the fact that becoming a ghoul has some real world basis in biology and if it was real would probably affect or be affected by skin color which might have some complicated implications.
>Also did you take that from >>>/edu/21949 ?I thought of separately from that.
No.41736
>>41688In the future humanity will be glowuyghurs or will not be.
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