No.494396[Last 50 Posts]
Ukraine thread 2.0
The last one got to 600 posts.
Original post:Is there a proxy conflict coming?
US will act ‘decisively’ if Russia deploys military to Cuba or Venezuela – White House
https://www.rt.com/russia/546021-moscow-presence-cuba-venezuela/Are NATO and Russia on the brink of war over the Ukraine crisis? (Ex-UK ambassador to Russia)
https://www.rt.com/podcast/546013-russia-nato-ukraine-crisis/US claims Russia preparing ‘false flag’ in Ukraine
https://www.rt.com/russia/546091-us-false-flag-ukraine/Russia ‘fabricating a pretext for invasion’ of Ukraine – White House
https://www.rt.com/russia/546049-kremlin-fabricating-reason-ukraine-invasion/Is Russia really preparing an offensive against Ukraine?
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/546082-russian-military-exercise-ukrainian-border/CIA-trained special ops could fight Russians in case of Ukrainian invasion – report
https://www.rt.com/russia/546041-cia-special-troops-ukraine-invasion/Ukraine hit by huge cyber attack
https://www.rt.com/russia/546026-ukrainian-government-agencies-massive-cyberattack/Russia-NATO relations at critical level, Moscow warns
https://www.rt.com/russia/545911-moscow-nato-relations-hazards/US to train ‘Ukrainian insurgents’ in EU – media
https://www.rt.com/russia/546143-us-train-ukraine-insurgents-reports/US seeking ways to profit should Russia-Ukraine conflict break out – reports
https://www.rt.com/business/546138-us-lng-russia-europe-sanctions/Also: requesting that tweet where Lukashenko says that this year they reunite Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, etc.
No.494397
>>494396Here for nothingburger
No.494398
Bets on NATO firing the first shot?
No.494399
>every link is Russian state media
Lol
No.494400
>>494399>every poster taking an issue with this is an anglo, curiouslylol
No.494401
>>494398100%
It'll be based on a lie, too, just like every conflict US was in since WW2.
No.494402
Macron floats EU security pact with Russia in split from US calls for ‘unity’ - FBN Global News(Link is from shitty website but original is paywalled from Financial Times)
https://fbnglobalnews.com/news/macron-floats-eu-security-pact-with-russia-in-split-from-us-calls-for-unity/ No.494403
>>494398Both sides warned against potential false flags coming from the other. Fuck knows how it starts.
No.494404
>>494403/Leftypol/ anons pulling up to do some mild amount of trolling, that's how it starts.
No.494405
>>494397Why are you so confident? They heyday of proxy wars is passed sure, but they're still completely possible.
No.494406
>>494405Things (especially in politics) have massive inertia, they either stay still or get moving in a sudden burst of events.
When you have this slow ratcheting of tension it gets less likely to have big confrontations.
This is how i see it at least.
No.494407
>>494399If Western press weren't rabidly parroting every baseless accusation that comes out of the White House we might have some more media options.
No.494409
>>494406That's actually a very good point. Btw you are one of the best posters here if you're the only guy who uses that flag
No.494410
>>494407You have more options than RT for news
No.494411
>>4944091) Thanks a lot anon, I deeply appreciate that.
2) To be fair there are two FSLNanons, both Italian too, but on average we post in different thread.
The other anon usually posts on /ITG/ and on the Italian general, whereas I usually focus on the economics/geopolitics stuff.
No.494412
>>494410Sure, but I assume OP is using RT because their proximity to the conflict means they report on it more frequently than other non-Western sources like Telesur, etc.
That said, I agree that some variety would be nice. WSWS has actually been extremely informative in their coverage, and I bet Al Jazeera has as well.
No.494413
>>494406U wot, m8? No, this is just like prelude to WWI.
>trade wars>Naval Arms race>entire world going from flashpoint to flashpoint>until some irrelevant bullshit sets off the entire thing No.494414
>>494406>they either stay still or get moving in a sudden burst of events.Russia is a huge country. Getting fully mobilized takes time. BTW, Ukraine reports Russia almost completely mobilized:
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/18/europe/ukraine-intelligence-russia-military-build-up-intl/index.htmlI don't see how Putin would allow picrel go on while Ukraine has nazis in power trying to ban Russian education, etc.
No.494416
>>494412What is weird sex website's take on this conflict?
No.494417
Btw it's kinda curious that
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAS HAPPENED YETLike, yea, Russia is mobilizing, but Russia has already done this like 10 times since Ukraine got it's colour revolution in place, hell, Russia mobilized a year ago and
NOTHING HAPPENED.
Nothing will happen, screencap this.
Seriously, this thread is only alive thanks to the Russia discussion about if we should support Russia or not.
IMO, we should critically support (note in here, critically, Russia is a bourgie state that adheres to the same laws of capitalism as everywhere else, as the laws of capitalism are universal) against US aggresion and it's puppet state Ukraine.
Also, if there were to be war at Ukraine, we would stop being in this "end of history" as the continental forces start to mobilize both it's propaganda and its people, and Europe does NOT want to go to war with Russia, Europe doesn't want to go to war in order to satisfy the bloodlust of America and Great Britain.
It would indeed be the great acceleration event.
Also, NATO's objective towards Russia is not to have a colour revolution in Russia, it is to balkanize it as the problem isn't that Russia isn't liberal or what have you, but that it exists in the first place…Think about it, 2 times have Russia tried to join NATO, during Gorbachev/Yeltsin and during the first term of Putin, and they literally said no everytime. Russia was willing to join the literal devil to cooperate with the west, and they said no everytime. Nato is fearful of Russia not only because it has so much nukes, but because divided countries are easier to control than one large country like Russia is.Russia is probably defending itself from NATO wanting them to balkanize into several states, which probably will have several wars between them, meanwhile somehow securing the nukes.>>494399Not my fault tbh, I just copied and pasted.
But yeah, literally a great deal of sources have been given. I mean, you could at least have used Weird Sex WebSite, at least they're actually "communists" or some shit.
>>494400>every poster taking an issue with this is an anglo, curiouslyThey should wordfilter anglo to burger, you people are fucking obnoxious.
Literal third-worlders retards with their brain poisoned by e-celebs. You literally use anglo as both a way to equate burgers to bri
ish people (when one population is somewhat more based, this being the bri ish, when compared to fucking burgers).
>>494406>Things (especially in politics) have massive inertia, they either stay still or get moving in a sudden burst of events.This, there are decades that feel like weeks and weeks that feel like decades.
No.494418
>>494414Russia does not need to mobilize its full potential to fend off a Ukraine attack on Donbass, unless the Ukrainian army really wants to go all in with no troops in reserve.
>>494413This is true but most of the flashpoints we've seen are either "frozen" (think Idllib,Taiwan) or usually way hyped up by NATO (Ukraine falls in this category, cause according to them Putin should have invaded in 2015, then 2017, then 2021, then this January).
This does not mean things will never come to a redde rationem, just that one has to apply a significative degree of skepticism each time.
No.494419
>>494415Their geopolitical coverage is generally good, anon. They wrote several articles on the US "anti-ISIL" bombing campaigns in Africa that are still unrivaled.
>>494416Mostly that this entire thing has been completely driven by NATO and that all of the accusations against Russia are obviously made up. Basically the same (accurate) thing most people here have been saying.
No.494420
>>494417>They should wordfilter anglo to burgerburgers are anglos. if anything they should wordfilter it the other way around. also, stop trying to hide the eternal anglo
No.494421
>>494418We were literally here already months before, with Ukraine declaring it would "de-occupy" Crimea, which is why so many Russian troops are on Ukrainian border in the first place.
There was a US aircraft carrier and two destroyers in the Med, there was scheduled deployment of two destroyers in the Black Sea, then US cancelled it, and immediately recognized the Armenian Genocide.
And we haven't heard anything since. Now we're here.
No.494422
>>494421This is true, but Ukraine risks full annihilation as a country. I wouldn't rule out TNO-Burgundy tier outcomes with Azov taking over West Ukraine (and the people worse than them, yes they exist) if Ukrainian regular troops get shattered in East Ukraine.
This would also mean another refugee crisis in Europe with at least a million refugees, and Europe does not want any of this, as IVPITER outlined with the declarations in
>>494402.
This time its just Anglo madness vs normal people. It could end pretty bad but I don't believe it will.
No.494423
>>494422>This time its just Anglo madnessMadness? This is capitalism. Every capitalist empire was eventually faced with a choice - war or decline. No one ever chose decline.
No.494425
>>494422Who are the people worse than Azov, if you can elaborate? I'm interested in seeing what amount of schizotry can be achieved by the eternal khokholoid.
No.494428
>>494422>Russia literally stomps the ukrainian army.>They annex the ukrainian territory between the dnieper and Russia.>Azov takes the rest of Ukraine.>Literally nazi afghanistan in Europe.>Nazi terrorist attacks start happening, them being trained in Ukraine.Tbh this shit would definitely make the european people react against right-wingers.
No.494429
>>494428Also trips thus this will happen.
No.494432
>>494428>Tbh this shit would definitely make the european people react against right-wingers.This seems wildly optimistic. Right wingers had plenty of support when they were bombing train stations during the Years of Lead.
No.494433
>>494417>, but Russia has already done this like 10 times since Ukraine got it's colour revolution in place, hell, Russia mobilized a year ago and NOTHING HAPPENED.Nothing will happen, screencap this.
mate the fact that they keep doing it shows that an invasion might take place
usually what happens is that you have practice mobilizations to one prepare and to two make your enemy think you wont invade since if you clearly havent invaded in the past you wont invade now
mark my words they will invade soon
No.494435
>>494432Let anon have his copium. Not a lot of people want to understand that meatgrinders like Somme and Verdun are necessary to reduce the forces of reaction.
No.494436
>>494435>Not a lot of people want to understand that meatgrinders like Somme and Verdun are necessary to reduce the forces of reaction.?
No.494440
>>494396The song sampled is very familiar. What is it?
No.494442
>>494436>>494438Yea, but I mean, i am
>>494428 and that's literally my point.
No.494443
>>494441The song is called Бабушка Водка Чики Брики
No.494445
>>494439You know /leftypol/ loves its happenings, we're all gonna say yes just because we wanna see shit explode
No.494446
On somewhat
RELATED NEWSRussian communist party has submitted a draft resolution to Russia's state duma to recognise the Donetsk and Lushank people's republics as their own sovereign independent nations.
https://meduza.io/en/news/2022/01/19/communist-party-submits-draft-resolution-to-state-duma-on-raising-issue-of-russia-recognizing-donetsk-and-luhansk-people-s-republicsThoughts?
No.494447
>>494446Honestly it would piss off the fuck out of westernoids so I would welcome this development
No.494448
>>494446>Thoughts?The struggles in Donbass are legitimate and I wish them all success. I think the CPRF are right to push for this motion, though of course Donbass is merely a bargaining chip to the Russian government.
No.494450
Hey, where did all the anti-Russia shills go? Did their shift at the shitposting factory end?
No.494451
>>494446Intelligent move by the communist party to try make Russia recognize a commie project BEFORE a potential war breaking out.
No.494452
>>494446Incomprehensibly based
>>494450It's literally just one autist, everyone else is saying critical support
No.494455
>>494446Good, let's see how it goes and if Putin has balls to do that.
No.494459
>>494458>"failure to recognize the private, a rabid clinging to the common, conceiving of universal precepts only, and rejecting the notion of private conditions and circumstances which must be addressed."where is this from?
No.494460
>>494414>I don't see how Putin would allow picrel go on while Ukraine has nazis in power trying to ban Russian education, etc.This isn't a personal opinion thing. Putin is just another ogliarch.
No.494461
>>494460oligarch > ogliarch > ogrearch > OGarch
No.494462
>>494461Shrek is the only ogre I will recognize but change ogliarch to capitalist if it pleases you
No.494463
>>494430Thanks for posting, very informative
No.494464
Russia
No.494465
>>494452I think it was a few. Personally I'd say to hell with Russia. My
critical support lies with the Donetsk and Lushank republic.
No.494467
>>494466Commander of a Donetsk People's Republic militia, he reached a kind of celeb-fame around 2014-15. He was killed in 2017 unfortunately.
No.494468
>>494465This is more or less my position as well.
No.494469
>>494404God, imagine just some madman civilian popping some shots off into the air, and that's what sets it all off.
No.494470
LET'S SEND HAZ TO DONETSK
The memes would be unlike anything seen here.
No.494471
>>494470Honestly I'm surprised we've never (I'm assuming) gotten any threads or posts talking about wanting to join any Donbass militia or how to join them. We had a lot back in the days of 8chan when this was at its peak popularity I guess about wanting to join or how to join the SDF/YPG. I guess part of the reason is that they had a pretty good PR team specifically on getting Westerners to volunteer.
No.494472
>>494396Why are people still talking about this absolute Nothingburger?
No.494473
Is it possible that a future Ukraine conflict can trigger a domino of China invading Taiwan and a full-blown WW3?
No.494474
>>494473It's possible that China may see an opportunity to take Taiwan if the West is busy focusing all its attention on Russia. Idk about this escalating into WW3 though.
No.494476
>>494475<The Uk has no intention of letting Ukraine fallWTF I love Putin now
No.494478
>>494477It's like China knows that Russia is now invading Ukraine, so maybe the West could just declare war on Russia, and when all attention were given to Russia and its allies, China could easily strike Taiwan and do a Houri Otas Houri Wain.
No.494479
>>494477>It's not in China's character to strike first. What do you mean by that? I'm just saying thay they may make a move on Taiwan if they think the conditions are favorable. Haven't they already said that unification by force remains an option?
>it doesn't stop other allied nations from picking a fight with China over TaiwanaI doubt Japan or Australia would be able to seriously do anything to stop China without the US backing them up.
No.494481
How would the posters itt react and behave to jingoist lib ramblings against Russia in an irl conversation? It's one thing to discuss this topic amongst ourselves as communists/socialists but how differently would it be in this scenario? Would you defend Russia?
No.494483
>>494481I'd probably ask them if they support Ukraine.
I'd then point out that much like Russia, Ukraine has a god awful track record of human rights abuses against Jews and Russians, which is why they founded their own seperatist republics.
Usually when you're the one asking questions they start to unfurl and then when they actually hear themselves they can either be humble and admit they're wrong, or go mask off.
No.494484
>>494479>I doubt Japan or Australia would be able to seriously do anything to stop China without the US backing them up.Japan? They'll ramp up and defend its territory immediately for they were in close proximity to China.
Australia could just blow the whistle and call upon Pacific allies like Indonesia and those affected by the SCS dispute to wage an all-out war.
No.494485
>>494481in my experience my lib acquaintances are considerably more psychotic against RU and CN than my fash-lite acquaintances , so I would change the topic probably
t. pmc faggot
No.494486
>>494481>How would the posters itt react and behave to jingoist lib ramblings against Russia in an irl conversationLaugh.
>Would you defend Russia?Yes. Absolutely.
>It's one thing to discuss this topic amongst ourselves as communists/socialists but how differently would it be in this scenario?We try to talk to them while we play the sauce card, of which we have compiled prior.
No.494487
If Ukrainians lose somehow you have to just imagine the massive amount of salt that would be mined from liberals.
I could cry.
No.494488
>>494485>libs being more insane and bloodthirsty than fashoidsHonestly if you're American that doesn't surprise me lmao
No.494489
>>494485I wonder why can Fascists love Russia and China? Orientalism?
No.494492
>>494481>How would the posters itt react and behave to jingoist lib ramblings against Russia in an irl conversation? I've had many such conversations and every time I argue that NATO is the aggressor in this situation and that confrontation with Russia only serves the interests of our own elites. I always tell people that our own ruling class poses a far greater everyday threat to their wellbeing than Russia does, and they should focus their energies against our own rulers.
No.494493
>>494489Because they see the libs seething about them, then they read the bs the fake news msm makes up about these countries and they go "but that's based" instead of the intended reaction.
No.494494
>>494489Probably the same mistake /pol always makes of thinking both China and Russias governments are nationalist just because there populations are mostly homogenous.
No.494495
>>494492What's their reply? Call you a Russia-bot?
No.494496
>>494492As a German, I usually even go further than that. Russia right now offers us cheap natural gas through Nord Stream 2 by cutting out the middle man and subsidizing it. We have a crazy crisis of energy prices here, and Nord Stream 2 would make us energy secure, and even choose the lesser evil in terms of enviromental damage compared to American fracking gas.
In Germany, every fifth child lives in poverty, and families have to turn off their heating in winter and instead wear three layers of clothes at home to avoid insane heating costs. Any further escalation here is directly opposed to the interests of the German people, instead, good relations with Russia are actually beneficial.
No.494497
>>494478Ok but again, the US has a fuckton of allies in NATO, not to mention the recent AUKUS agreement they just struck with Australia. They could theoretically use the Australian military in place of US troops to """defend""" Taiwan, alongside other Asian nations that are aligned with US interests.
>What do you mean by that? I mean in the sense that China has often relied on its economic policy to further its hegemony and monopoly on trade as opposed to the US policy of bombing the shit out of a country or installing a right-wing dictator that would suit its needs.
>I'm just saying thay they may make a move on Taiwan if they think the conditions are favorable. It's possible, but like I said, there are other forces APART FROM THE US that could serve as Seppo lapdogs.
>Haven't they already said that unification by force remains an option?China has been backing away from their "wolf-warrior" style of diplomacy and grandstanding. Political posturing and flexing like a body builder has often been a tactic used by nations for propagandistic purposes. If what you're saying is true, China's changed its tune recently, opting for a more "peaceful reunification"
https://nypost.com/2021/10/10/taiwan-to-resist-chinas-call-for-a-peaceful-reunification/
>I doubt Japan or Australia would be able to seriously do anything to stop China without the US backing them up.But that's my point, anon. The USA has the logistics and means to support Australia and other US aligned nations to take the fight to Taiwan. Look at the amount of US naval and airbases around the pacific that could serve as a launchpad for troops to mobilise.
China being the agressor in this military conflict is not only unlikely, but suicidal for their military and navy.
No.494498
>>494497The US has troops in Taiwan too, but it's a secret and informal.
No.494500
>>494499No we are not okay. Due to the export fetishism they have imposed since decades now to be the "export champion" we have the biggest low wage sector in Europe due to driving down labor cost so other countries can actually buy our shit due to low production cost.
No.494501
>>494500didn't know germany was doing a dengism
No.494502
>>494498Do they actually? Genuinely had no clue, I suppose that would definitely cause some very negative consequences for China if they do decide to invade.
No.494503
>>494489Your on to something that I have mentioned several times about the Dengist (Fascism disguised with Marxist-Leninist aesthetics) world view that also applies to the Eurasianist Fascists who consume pro-Chinese/Russian “Alternative” Media such as “Moon of Alabama”, the “Unz Review”, and “The Saker”, which is that their world view is essentially Orientalist Qanon (Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping jointly take on the "savior" role of Trump, while Trump takes on the "secret-helper" role of Q, with the "Decadent Liberal West" taking on the role of the "Global Pedophile Cabal" and the "Based Traditional East" taking on the role of the "Real American Patriots"), LOL.
No.494505
>>494497The US's greatest ally is perhaps Indonesia.
No.494506
>>494498also keep in mind that Taiwan simps for the US a lot, so if the US can play its soft power card the US can easily make Taiwan an ally.
No.494507
>>494495No since you can't really do that in an irl conversation lol. I find a lot of people at least see my point, some others will just be stubborn and persist in the argument that Russia is some kind of unique threat to world peace that needs to be destroyed, or at least argue that Ukraine has a right to join NATO if it wants.
No.494508
>>494497This is why China should go all in on the Philippines and ignore Taiwan for the moment IMHO. If the Philippines ditch the Us it means the end of the First island Chain strategy, which would be a MASSIVE defeat for the Us without a shot fired between the two countries.
No.494509
>>494508Another important thing to note is that China should also empower Indonesia's Big Nine. So that they can influence local politics and make it closer to China.
No.494510
>>494505>he isn't aware that Australia has been the US's lap dog for the past few years now.m8.
No.494511
>>494510Also that. My bad for not inserting SEA.
No.494513
>>494472Because they hope NATO isn’t larping again with they’re Russian dogmas they’ve been pushing for decades and hope NATO will actually destroy itself for once
No.494514
>>494455All parties are in favor of it, including Russia United.
No.494515
>>494396>Also: requesting that tweet where Lukashenko says that this year they reunite Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, etc.LMAO what?
No.494516
>>494472>somebody called it a nothingburgerWell now I know something will happen
No.494517
>>494473>>494474All according to plan:
>>698073 No.494518
>>494517I highly doubt that China would let Russia fall so just they get enclosed by the western imperialists.
Highly unlikely to happen. If anything, they will supply Russia to any material they need for the war.
No.494519
>>494450>>494452He slept.
>>494472>Ukrainian invasion is le nothingburgerUntil the day comes. Just wait for it, you'll soon realize that you're going to spew lies that Russia and the U$ are Imperialist
No.494520
>>494512The Baltics deserve another Anschluss
No.494521
>>494518But in such scenario China must divide its military potential, at 85-15 at a minimum and 75-25 at a maximum. Or maybe China can just ask its people to fight for Russia as volunteers just like what they do to their people back in the 1950s when they are a contigent of the KOrean War.
No.494522
>>494513As an old adage goes (picrel).
>>494514That means the commies are all aboard with it? Awesome!
No.494523
>>494519According to the Leninist definition of Imperialism, Putinist Russia is a Imperialist country due to it being a Capitalist country with Monopolistic Corporations that export Capital to periphery countries in order to extract their resources and exploit their cheap labor (ie. Gazproms activities in Kazakhstan), albeit not as advanced as U$, European, and Chinese Imperialism, but still a Imperialist country that should be opposed by all authentic Marxists.
No.494526
ahhhhhh just fucking start the conflict already
i can't wait for the habbening to unfold, i wanna see the war kino
imagine if the commies in ukraine took advantage of this
No.494527
>>494523>>494524>>494525>this is what passes for Marxist analysis on /leftypol/ these dayshow embarrassing
No.494528
>>494527Too many schizos around these days.
No.494529
>>494528i don't think lear is a schizo, he just seems retarded
No.494530
>>494529He's also retarded considering his entire marxist education comes from internet forum posts.
No.494532
>>494523>Putinist Russia is a Imperialist country due to it being a Capitalist country with Monopolistic Corporations that export Capital to periphery countries in order to extract their resources and exploit their cheap laborNeither Russia nor China fit this description. Both of them are commodity-driven export economies; in fact, anyone with an even passing familiarity with China would observe that its economy is primarily noteworthy for the INFLOW of finance capital, not outflow, i.e., China is a target for finance capital from advanced, imperialist countries.
Neither China nor Russia has a particularly large banking sector and both of them are absent of the overwhelming financialization that all advanced capitalist economies (the USA, UK, Europe, Japan, Australia, etc.) have undergone since the 1980s. Both of them have monopolies, but it's crucial to note that these monopolies largely originate from a privatized STATE sector, not private consolidation as has occurred in the West. In imperialist countries, monopoly capitalism originates in exceedingly advanced production while in large non-imperialist economies, monopoly capitalism generally comes from top-down public sector control and former economic planning (as is the case in India, Brazil, etc.) Russia and China both focus heavily on attracting foreign Investment (though this is more characteristic of China) which is literally the exact opposite of how an imperialist country behaves.
No.494533
>>494527The Leninist definition of Imperialism is embarrassing to you, LOL.
>>494532I’m sorry to break it to you but Dengist Chinas “Belt and Road” project is a textbook example of Lenin’s definition of Imperialism as shown in this informative piece by the CPI (Maoist)
https://www.bannedthought.net/India/CPI-Maoist-Docs/Books/China-Social-Imperialism-CPI-Maoist-2021-Eng-view.pdf , and the activities of Russian Oil and Gas companies in countries like Kazakhstan meet this definition as well. Just because Dengist China and Putinist Russia are Semi-Periphery countries that receive FDI from Western Corporations, and serve as a source of cheap labor for U$ corporations, and cheap Oil/Gas for the EU, respectively, dose not mean that they cannot be Imperialist in their own right.
No.494534
>>494533Not to mention that in Russia's case in particular, the heavy reliance on extractive industries like fossil fuels is a pretty strong driver of imperialist behaviour. Control of oil/natural gas/etc deposits is obviously a pretty big deal for a country that relies so heavily on them, at the very least for the purposes of denying them to competitors and influencing the global market. Thus in Russia's case their reliance on commodity export would actually make them more inclined towards imperialism.
No.494536
>>494532>but it's crucial to note that these monopolies largely originate from a privatized STATE sector, not private consolidation as has occurred in the WestWhy is that crucial? State owned enterprises are still profit seeking entities, they still are partially owned by private capital. Gazprom for example is only about 50% owned by the Russian government, it still has to maximize profits, it still competes with other fully private firms, still has to satisfy the investors that provide it with half its capital. I don't see why being partially owned by a bourgeois government would preclude it from acting like any other monopoly.
No.494537
>>494533That report from the CPI is garbage, it is high on polemics but sparse on actual substantive arguments. It claims the AIIB was established to generate capital for the belt and road yet presents no evidence. It makes an absurd argument that public utilities monopolies are evidence of imperialism. It argues, without evidence, that Chinese billionaires used monopoly enterprise to steal their wealth. The author fails to consider cuase and effect in his arguments and interprets correlation as causation. For example, he presents large state controlled banks as evidence of financial oligopoly yet presents to evidence for this.
The author has poor understanding of economics. He ignores the work of contemporary Marxist economists who attack the concept of monopoly (eg. Shaikh) and contend that monopolies do not, and have not existed in history. Another economic theory blunder is the author's understanding of stagflation is wrong, he claims the only way out of stagflation is revolution yet the stagflation crises of the 1970s is long over but the west has had no revolution.
There are also errors with historical research. One such error is the claim that China had no external loans during the Mao's leadership, completely ignoring the massive debt to the USSR that had to be paid with agricultural products. Another error is author supports the Tiananmen protests and describes them as "pro-democracy" ignoring the fact it was a western backed coup attempt. The author claims the workers and peasants worked in alliance during Mao's leadership while both are exploited now but conveniently ignores that the socialist development of China was funded by exploiting the agricultural surplus made by peasants to sustain urban workers. This is no different form Stalin's industrialization of the USSR so the author deliberately misrepresents the development of both China and the USSR.
Overall it seems like the author was either incompetent or lazy, though we could also entertain the possibility the the author deliberately wrote a terribly researched and argued document so the very idea that China is imperialist can be dismantled. Without going into conspiracy theory territory though and accepting the author's work as genuine, the work is clearly biased and does not pass as a scientific work. It is a political polemic written by someone who either didn't know the history and economics or didn't bother to do the research. I recommend you stop posting this article as some kind of definitive proof of China's supposed imperialism.
No.494538
>>494533>I’m sorry to break it to you but Dengist Chinas “Belt and Road” project is a textbook example of Lenin’s definition of Imperialism as shown in this informative piece by the CPI (Maoist)Oh wow, trots hate real communism. Who would have thunk?
No.494539
>>494527You cannot be a big player in the capitalist game and not engage in and benefit from imperialism abroad. If russia did not, they would be unable to compete with the bourgeois of powerful western countries that do. In the case of china, do the ends justify the means? We'll have to see.
No.494540
>>494537>Another error is author supports the Tiananmen protests and describes them as "pro-democracy"Jesus fucking christ. Can those "communists" get even more glowed than this? Did they mention that le ebil Mao and Stalin killed hundreds of millions of people? I won't be surprised one bit.
>It is a political polemic written by someone who either didn't know the history and economics or didn't bother to do the researchThis guy is a glowie, plain and simple. ALL of them, all those leftist orgs, all of them hate China passionately, all of them supported Kazakhstan revolts and before that Belarus protests, they supported Syrian rebels, Libyan rebels, etc etc. Those people are getting paid by Western NGOs, there's no other explanation.
No.494541
>>494538>Communism is when international transport systemWhile China is a completely seperate topic, lmao no Belt and Road isn't communism. Its an apolitical infrastructure project. Might as well jump the shark and say Marshall plan was communism. LaRoucheism. Not even once.
No.494542
A quick list for what is and isn't communism!
Communism:
>Build Back Better
>Belt and Road
>Marshall Plan
>Bismarckonomics
>FDR
>Assyrian city planning where you cut of the heads of everyone who lays roads that aren't perfectly straight
Not Communism:
>Overthrowing Beria in order to stop USSR from participating in Marshall Plan
>Mao not opening China up
>Striking agaisnt fuel price increases when it would disrupt Belt and Road
>Not picking a side during intra-imperialist conflicts
>Not voting for War Credit in 1914
ANY QUESTIONS, KHRUSCHEVITE ULTRAS?
No.494544
>>494520The Baltics deserve nuclear obliteration. They are a bunch of unthankful Nazi LARPers anyway. They have forfeited their right to existence since WW2.
Unfortunately, Russians are too cucked to do anything so based any time soon.
No.494546
Am I the only one that sees the US funding Nazis in Ukraine and can’t really blame Russia for not wanting that shit in their border?
I get that Russia is a capitalist sinkhole, but I’m also not exactly gripping my pearls over them invading.
It’s more like, “what did you expect?”
No.494547
>>494546Russia is ultimately indifferent to the Nazis in Ukraine, at least insofar as they are Nazis. What they're worried about is NATO expanding eastwards. Zelinsky could throw the entire Azov batallion down a mineshaft Tito style and it would make no difference to Russia if he maintained his relationship with the West.
No.494548
>>494546>Am I the only one that sees the US funding Nazis in Ukraine and can’t really blame Russia for not wanting that shit in their border?As far as I can tell, this is (and should be) the majority view on the board. The imperialism debate is more of a side conversation than anything else, as I would hope any principled communist understands that arming and funding a far-right government as a pretext for NATO militarizing on Russia's border is a bad thing.
No.494549
>>494547> Russia is ultimately indifferent to the Nazis in Ukraine> What they're worried about is NATO expanding eastwards. Considering all the Nazis involved in creating NATO, I mean…is there a difference?
No.494550
>>494549Yes obviously there's a difference lol. I mean yeah, liberalism and fascism are ultimately joined at the hip, and one inevitably turns into the other as the contradictions of capitalism reach a boiling point. Liberalism vomits out the most disgusting fascist movements and ideas only to moderate and re-absorb them once their purpose has been accomplished. West Germany with its Nazi civil servants and army is probably the purest example of this. That being said, NATO isn't (currently) in the grip of the kind of genocidal mania that drove the Nazis, largely because the conditions for that simply don't exist. Not only this, but as a capitalist society, Russia is itself merely a fascist state in waiting, as all bourgeois states are.
No.494556
>>494399So what?
If it's more accurate, why choose CNN/Fox over RT, whcih has more knowledge of Ukraine?
No.494557
>>494544>Unfortunately, Russians are too cucked to do anything so based any time soon.Then what is this military beefing-up?
No.494558
>>494547>What they're worried about is NATO expanding eastwards.Why should they worry? They should've laughed and laughed. If they worry about NATO they would surely look weak.
No.494559
>>494550>NATO isn't (currently) in the grip of the kind of genocidal mania that drove the NazisBut I mean…in this instance with Ukraine, if NATO is also supporting a state that came to power because of Nazis, and is completely fine with those Nazis in power, do the conditions really not exist?
The lines are getting way too blurred for me.
No.494560
>>494537You can post as many Strawman attacks against the CPI (Maoist) piece as you want, but you can’t disprove that Dengist China is a Capitalist country with Monopolistic Corporations that export Capital to periphery countries in order to extract their resources and exploit their cheap labor (this is exactly what the “Belt and Road” is all about), the textbook Leninist definition of Imperialism, as explained in-depth in the link that triggers you so much.
>>494538Are you retarded? I am a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist who posted a link to a piece written by a Maoist party currently waging Protracted People’s War and you call me a Trot, LMAO.
>>494540Classic Conspiratard thinking, any Communists who criticize the Capitalist, Imperialist, and Fascist State of Dengist China must be part of “Le ebil CIA plot to destroy the Red Fascist Orientalist utopia of China”, this is literally a example of the Orientalist Qanon (Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping jointly take on the "savior" role of Trump, while Trump takes on the "secret-helper" role of Q, with the "Decadent Western Imperialists" taking on the role of the "Global Pedophile Cabal" and the "Based Eastern Imperialists" taking on the role of the "Real American Patriots") promoted by Dengists that I have been warning about, LOL.
No.494561
>>494559>But I mean…in this instance with Ukraine, if NATO is also supporting a state that came to power because of Nazis, and is completely fine with those Nazis in power, do the conditions really not exist?I wouldn't characterize the situation in Ukraine in this way. Sure, there are some pretty vicious fascistic elements in Ukraine, and yes, at least some of these (namely Azov) are receiving official support from the Ukrainian government. That being said, it's not as if Zelensky has any plans to do Generalplan Ost against Russia, and I would seriously question the extent to which groups similar to Azov are actually commanding Ukraine's state apparatus. I have no doubt that they are influential, but people here talk as if they are running the show unhindered, but I haven't seen any real evidence of this. Frankly at this point the fascists in Ukraine seem a lot more like the Freikorps to me, insofar as Kiev tolerates and makes use of them, but they are not yet actually running things. That's the impression I get anyway. Besides, even if Azov, Right Sector etc were fully in charge of the country, it's not as if the rest of NATO is going to dance to the tune set by Ukraine. Quite the opposite actually, Ukrainian fascism is a proxy for Western liberal imperialism, not the other way around.
No.494562
>>494560>Are you retarded? I am a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist who posted a link to a piece written by a Maoist party currently waging Protracted People’s War and you call me a Trot, LMAO.Anon is wrong but there is no difference between trots and mlms. Both of them are retards. Only true
M-L is okay.
No.494564
>>494552Hope that goes well, for the glory of Allah!
No.494565
>>494545…for the successful liberation of Ukraine.
No.494566
>>494533>>I’m sorry to break it to you but Dengist Chinas “Belt and Road” project is a textbook example of Lenin’s definition of Imperialism as shown in this informative piece by the CPI (Maoist) https://www.bannedthought.net/India/CPI-Maoist-Docs/Books/China-Social-Imperialism-CPI-Maoist-2021-Eng-view.pdf , and the activities of Russian Oil and Gas companies in countries like Kazakhstan meet this definition as well. Just because Dengist China and Putinist Russia are Semi-Periphery countries that receive FDI from Western Corporations, and serve as a source of cheap labor for U$ corporations, and cheap Oil/Gas for the EU, respectively, dose not mean that they cannot be Imperialist in their own right.Lear confirmed as a redlib
No.494567
>>494528>>494529>>494530Lear is a redlib - that is, a lib in red garb.
No.494569
<Finland mobilizing forces
Okay this is a new development
No.494573
>>494571Okay, I take back what I said yesterday. Maybe Putin is at least a little bit based. Still a murderous imperialist and an anti-communist though.
No.494575
In Doomer mode about this war rn, history is repeating: Chechnya, Transnistria, more brother wars. I know people on both sides that will be fucked because of this. Is this what it felt to be like a Yugoslav in 1991? Seeing your friends fight with no way to stop them???
Шли шли два брата…
No.494576
Remind me why this stuff escalated in these days?
No.494577
>>494573Russia can't be imperialist because they don't have the necessary capital-formation. What i mean by that is the following: Capitalists who have outgrown their national markets and have formed financialised corporations to expand outwards. Imperialism the way marxists define it, stipulates an imperial finance bourgeoisie. The only industry in Russia that is large enough to facilitate such a development is their fossil fuel exploitation, and that's been mostly nationalized. Russia has enough military power to be an imperial player, so the confusion is understandable, but it does not have capital interests that would drive imperialism. As a mental short cut think of imperialism as an extension of vast financial power.
No.494579
>>494576>Remind me why this stuff escalated in these days?superpowers and not enough buffer-zone between them.
>>494578argument not found
No.494581
Wow! I sure wouldn't want to be caught in DC, Colorado Springs, Los Angeles, Munich, or Birmingham when nukes start detonating! You know, cus the McDonald's ice cream machines will be broken. Obviously.
No.494582
Reminder that this is all a big fat nothingburger as always!
No.494583
>>494534>>494534>the heavy reliance on extractive industries like fossil fuels is a pretty strong driver of imperialist behaviour.
>porjection>>494533
>The Leninist definition of Imperialism is embarrassing to you, LOL.Russian constantly redefines debts with other countries.
AS I say in another thread, when juan guaido proposed to the Russian government to throw to the trash can Maduro, he will keep compromises and business as usual, and this eventually led to sanctions that cost roftnet million, if not billions, you see they are not imperialists.
You don't even know what you are talking about.
FOR the anon who asked how the CPUSA played a role in the USSR, and how the west, particularly anglos, in the demise of the USSR I answered in the first thread those events.
No.494586
What's /leftypol/'s over/under on this breaking out into armed conflict?
No.494589
>>494587Dont be sorry for me anon, I am going to be fine.
No.494590
>>494588I like Russians tho
Just the Yanquis and the Lolodomorstanis plz
No.494592
>>700449
>>700449
t. fed
>nazi football fan problem
Show me one picture of them praising the battalion 88, tattooed with the face of oskar dinlewagner.
I will wait.
No.494593
>>494586>What's /leftypol/'s over/under on this breaking out into armed conflict?2+1 theories:
1 US gas suppliers are making a killing selling gas to the EU and all this tension is about keeping cheap Russian gas out of the EU market and the game is just about preventing market competition. If this is true all of the drama is temporary and goes away once either the Nordstream2 pipeline goes into service and lowers EU Gas prices or the weather warms up and gas demand sinks.
2 US is hell bend on expanding NATO right to Russia's border where they seek to gain a definitive military advantage that negates Russia's territorial security , in that case war is pretty much guaranteed. This hypothetical conflict is going to last a few weeks and Russia will win decisively. Even if the arming of Ukrainians continues, because Russian troops have trained on their equipment, and will wield it with high combat efficiency while the Ukrainian military has no training on the weapons they are getting now and will wield it with low combat efficiency.
wildcard theory: Russia could potentially find a pressure point that they could use to force the US to back off, this has happened multiple time before, in geopolitical struggles so it's not that unlikely.
Commentary:
The best scenario for all involved parties would probably be a independent and neutral Ukraine in combination with regional demilitarized zones.
The EU would be stupid to not maneuver it self into a position to get cheap Russian gas, because low energy cost is a critical component for economic success even for so called "post industrial" economies that have a large service sector.
No.494594
>>494588>russians literally plan to kill people in donbass>leader of donbass: no uAbsolute state.
No.494596
>>700465
These are based anti-imperialist nazis.
No.494597
>>494560>You can post as many Strawman attacks against the CPI (Maoist) piece as you want, but you can’t disprove that Dengist China is a Capitalist country with Monopolistic Corporations that export Capital to periphery countries in order to extract their resources and exploit their cheap labor (this is exactly what the “Belt and Road” is all about), the textbook Leninist definition of Imperialism, as explained in-depth in the link that triggers you so much.The problem with your link is that it does not explain why the belt and road is imperialism. The belt and road is only mentioned twice in passing in the entire article and the author provides no evidence to support the claim. Anyone can make an assertion but it does not make the assertion true.
No.494598
>>700465>ask him about people tattooed with oask dirlewagner face in their boddies, bring old as fuck picturesRead, uygha, read
>These cases do not constitute a conclusive list. Rather, they are a demonstration of how active the ultranationalist groups were during the time. Subsequently, however, their role diminished. In 2008, Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs created a subdivision known as “Center E” – Department on Countering Extremism. It became heavily involved with countering the far-right along with Federal Security Service, which enjoyed ever-growing influence under Putin, – among other things. How Center E – and legislation on countering terrorism and extremism in general – became a tool of political repressions in Russia is a subject of separate research. The role of security services in curbing ultranationlist movements was undeniable, because Kremlin developed a two-fold strategy to deal with them. They could be eliminated – or instrumentalized. Оригінал статті - на сайті Українського кризового медіа-центру:
https://uacrisis.org/en/mapping-modern-ultranationalism-in-russiaThe Russian state, not only has taken matters into their hands, they have neutralized those elements. This is very different from what you have in Ukraine where those nazis are literally embedded with the army
>muh Zelinsky is da jooce>implying he is not but a puppetKee coping
No.494599
>>700473>right in the EU as much as the Russian government is right nowt, fed, again
Here is a list of hate crimes on Russia and how they have declined:
https://hatecrime.osce.org/russian-federationYou are projecting whatever your state is doing, to Russia's state.
No.494600
If Russia does invade Ukraine what would the goal be? The main options I can think of are as follows:
1)Annex the entire country making it part of Russia.
2)Annex some of the country but leave the rest alone.
3)Topple the current government of Ukraine and install a new government more friendly towards Russia.
No.494601
>>494600Russia relies on ethnic nationalism of its russian population. Same will apply for its Ukrainian puppet state.
No.494602
>>700489>I trust the Russian government's statistics on hate crimes>I'd rather invent mines, like the smart guy I am
>2017>never bring the links of being from 2017, where most of the rise of nazis happened after the fall of the USSR and was heavily curved by the government in the 00s.>this butthurt>>700489>please provide evidence that the US is supporting the far right in the EU as much as the Russian government is right nowI never say this, but indeed the U.S. is supporting the azov battlion with CIA training.
https://canadianpatriot.org/2022/01/19/cia-trains-ukrainian-nazis-how-to-kill-russians/That's a fact.
With the total support of the Ukrainian government. You don't see Spetsnaz training ultranationalists, if anything, they train themselves, and they are attacked by the Russian government.
>>700489
>Oh so you would trust their civilian death totals from the Chechen wars tooThere were neutral observers from AI, the U.N., and other factions, what are you talking about? these factions meet more or less the same number of victims given by the Russian government. Also, when did communists cry tears for conflict conflated by Islamic far-right nationalists from Saudi Arabia?
Just say you hate Russia and you are not anti-imperialist, we will understand.
No.494603
>>494601>nationalism of its Russian populationIf that were the case the Russians wouldn't be doing diligence on bringing back the Muslims attracted by the ISIL in Syria to return to Russia.
https://rtd.rt.com/films/after-isis-bringing-the-children-home/You are describing Russia under navalny:
https://archive.org/details/VideoAlexeiNavalnyComparesMuslimsToCockroaches No.494604
>>494600Trying to annex the entire Ukraine would be insane. They'd stick to the parts with some measure of pro-Russian sentiment (ie the rest of Donbas).
No.494605
>>494604Even if its not that pro Russian they could try to annex Mariupol area too, just to close off Azov Sea to Ukraine for good.
No more than that though.
No.494606
>>494605*Zaporizhia not Mariupol sorry
No.494607
>>494577>Imperialism the way marxists define it, stipulates an imperial finance bourgeoisie.For the last time, it does not. Lenin says this explicitly, financial oligarchies are not a prerequisite for a country to be imperialist. If they were then we would have to conclude thay imperialism didn't exist until the late 19th century. Rather they are a mechanism which eventually drives all capitalist countries towards imperialism. In other words, financial oligarchies always lead to imperialism, but imperialism doesn't always need them in order to exist.
>The only industry in Russia that is large enough to facilitate such a development is their fossil fuel exploitation, and that's been mostly nationalized. That doesn't mean fuck all. Russian "state owned" companies are in reality only partially state owned. For example nearly 50% of Gazprom is owned by private investors, investors whose capital is still imperative for Gazprom to continue operating. It is still subject to the laws of capital accumulation and competition.
>but it does not have capital interests that would drive imperialismReally? So Russian capitalists don't have an interests in maximizing their profits? If a Russian capitalist sees that they can increase their profits by investing in and exploiting a third world country, would they not do so? You are misunderstanding the function that monopolization plays in Lenin's theory. Again, it is a mechanism that makes capital export inevitable, not the only thing capable of causing capitalists to invest abroad. If a Russian capitalist sees an opportunity opportunity expand his profits with foreign investments he isn't going to say "Damn I really want to make a ton of money by exploiting the third world, but unfortunately we haven't reached the monopoly stage of finance capital so I guess I won't." The force which ultimately drives capitalism towards imperialism isn't monopoly finance capital, it's profit seeking. Monopoly finance capital is just an inevitable outcome of profit seeking.
No.494608
>>494607>financial oligarchies are not a prerequisite for a country to be imperialistYes, but it is a prerequisite to being a state with private ownership owning the system. I said multiple times, with multiple examples how they do not let profit take mand and control of their state, like the constantly renegotiate debts, pardon debts, etc (and of course the U.S., with its IMF and World Bank had to start to do this, but triggers aggressions agaisnt Russia)
Fall in line, Yeltsin was a result of CPUSA promoting "democracy" in the USSR. Now you want to accuse of "muh oligarchs" to whatever they have in Russia.
>Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism: This group was formed after the Soviet coup of 1991 by Manning Marable, Carl Boice, Leslie Cagan, Charlene Mitchell, Angela Davis, Pete Seeger, and numerous others who were expelled from (or left) the Communist Party for supporting Mikhail Gorbachev and the pro-democracy faction of the Russian government. Free of the CPUSA, the CCDS founders hoped to unite the divided American Left and received support from a number of well-known leftists, including Noam ChomskyThis is the result of your own left groups helping to split the USSR, and want now to accuse what Russia has, twisting the science (like Marx said describing Malthus) of what Lenin said.
No.494609
>>494608>I said multiple times, with multiple examples how they do not let profit take mand and control of their stateWhat class governs Russia? Is it not a bourgeois state? Do the interests of the bourgeoisie not predominate? If so then obviously the interests of profit predominate.
>like the constantly renegotiate debts, pardon debtsBullshit. They did it with Venezuela for strategic reasons, that doesn't mean it's standard practice.
>Fall in line, Yeltsin was a result of CPUSA promoting "democracy" in the USSR.Yeltsin was the product of internal contradictions in the USSR, and it was him and his ilk who dismantled it from the top down. This is who runs Russia today, the people who killed the Soviet Union. Christ, imagine thinking that a tiny, irrelevant party like the CPUSA is responsible for the demise of the USSR and not the people who were actually running it. I mean honestly, do you think the stance of the CPUSA had literally any influence whatsoever on the course of events in the late USSR? These are some utterly ridiculous mental gymnastics to avoid coming to the blatantly obvious conclusion that Russia is a capitalist country and as such is driven inexorably towards imperialism.
>twisting the science (like Marx said describing Malthus) of what Lenin saidThe only one doing this is you, you are claiming he said and believe things when he explicitly says the opposite.
No.494610
>>494608>Yeltsin was a result of CPUSA promoting "democracy" in the USSRI think you are giving too much credit to cpusa on this one
No.494611
>>494609>Christ, imagine thinking that a tiny, irrelevant party like the CPUSA is responsible for the demise of the USSAnd not even the party as a whole, just a small splinter group. Either that anon was being willfully ignorant or has severe burger brain-rot.
No.494612
>>494609>CPUSA is why Yeltsin and Gorbachev and the porkies they represented destroyed the USSRThe burger posters on this site are the most retarded anti-communists I’ve ever encountered
No.494613
>>494607>For the last time, it does not. Lenin says this explicitly, financial oligarchies are not a prerequisite for a country to be imperialist. If they were then we would have to conclude thay imperialism didn't exist until the late 19th century.Regular non financialised capital could only be imperialist in the past before the financial bourgeoisie displaced them. You are talking about specific conditions in the past. How is this relevant today ?
No.494614
>>494609>strategic reasonsoh wow, loosing billions to "strategic"
gotta love this capitalists now, lmao, you dense retard.
>>494609>What class governs Russia? Is it not a bourgeois state?State capitalism? haven't you heard about this? state capitalism=/= bourgeoisie seeking to export capital to increase the profit
rate.
>>494609
>Yeltsin was the product of internal contradictions in the USSRCreated by the west, mainly the anglos, particularly NATO and their real anticommunists + the leftist being cucks to their ruling class. See who Anatoly Chubais was, where did he study, under the full influence of Marxist economics, and despite that how he rejected Marxism in an already socialists state, and who were the guys in the west who influenced him to "open to the markets".
You have people like Bernie Sanders here praising how "the USSR acknowledge they lack democracy" "good things are coming"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KCoR6UYs1kWhat the fuck does that even mean? the international left, instead of saying "why would the fuck you USSR morons would like to have the democracy that is funding anti-communists abroad, that seek to kill communists abroad, like you?" that's a reality you can't change, but instead of shut the fucking up after what the west did to the USSR and start your revolution, you come here to say capitalism = imperialism, not picking a side between two completely incomparable states, when in fact it is
laste stage capitalism, nothing else.
No.494615
>>494612>projectionThese are the proofs, you have the committees of correspondence for democracy and socialism, which was formed with former CPUSA members that probably were sabotaging the CPUSA since the beginning, and you have politicians like Berni Sanders also helping to that shit.
No.494616
>>494611If they weren't influential why did Yeltsin repeats exactly the same narrative of "being democratic" the same speech of these leftists, to begin with, 🙄. These are the liberal left, the progressives, the ones who infiltrated into the USSR and managed to form, manipulate, and change the narrative of the USSR communist party leadership.
No.494617
>>494616>If they weren't influential why did Yeltsin repeats exactly the same narrative of "being democratic"Because that's the same shit that everyone who opposed the USSR was saying, from western "leftists" to the CIA. The USSR would have been dismantled with or without them.
No.494618
Why are you dumb fucking idiots fighting each other? I would rather have updates over whether a war is going to occur.
No.494619
>>494617>The USSR would have been dismantled with or without them.
>idealismow, wow, of course it is a liberal mind haahaha, you lost your way to r/liberalism
No.494620
>>494618Because each update any moorn would come and say something it is not.
No.494621
>>494619>thinks the USSR fell because of a tiny, irrelevant group of western "leftists">calls me an idealist idiot
No.494622
>>494621>thinks the USSR would survive if Stalin didn't start the purges.>The USSR would have won the IIWW with or without them.Yep, cope.
No.494623
The restoration of the USSR is in sight. At such a crucial juncture, Russia needs nothing less than our undivided support. No handwringing over “muh oligarchs” that are just regular business owners reigned in by the state, no cries of “authoritarian” or claims that “both sides are bad”, none of that faggy bullshit. The people in this thread trying to claim that a conflict involving a LITERAL NAZI STATE with an artificial ethnicity of reactionary Russians are glowing brighter than the sun
No.494624
>>494623>The restoration of the USSR is in sightboy oh boy have i got a bridge to sell you, anon
No.494625
>>494621The reason the USSR fell in the first place was because Stalin didn’t go nearly far enough. He spared Khrushchev, allowing him to assassinate Stalin and murder his rightful successor
No.494626
>>494614>oh wow, loosing billions to "strategic"It is when it props up an ally in your greatest rival's back yard. The US spends huge sums of money to prop up its allies all the time.
>State capitalism? haven't you heard about this?That isn't what I asked. I asked what the class character of Russia's state was. State capitalism is merely a policy adopted by some bourgeois states, it does not change the class and ultimately capitalist character of the state. Engels writes in Socialism: Utopian and Scientific,
<But, the transformation — either into joint-stock companies and trusts, or into State-ownership — does not do away with the capitalistic nature of the productive forces. In the joint-stock companies and trusts, this is obvious. And the modern State, again, is only the organization that bourgeois society takes on in order to support the external conditions of the capitalist mode of production against the encroachments as well of the workers as of individual capitalists. The modern state, no matter what its form, is essentially a capitalist machine — the state of the capitalists, the ideal personification of the total national capital. The more it proceeds to the taking over of productive forces, the more does it actually become the national capitalist, the more citizens does it exploit. The workers remain wage-workers,proletarians. The capitalist relation is not done away with. It is, rather, brought to a head.>Created by the westNo, created by Soviet society itself. How tf could a handful of Western socialists ever have influenced what was going on (mostly behind closed doors) in the USSR? Why are you blaming them instead of the people who actually dismantled it?
>you come here to say capitalism = imperialism, not picking a side between two completely incomparable states, when in fact it is laste stage capitalism, nothing elseSo the Russian Empire wasn't imperialist? Lenin referred to it as such, despite the fact that it hadn't even reached the capitalist stage of development, let alone the monopoly finance stage. Was Britain not imperialist until the mid-19th century? Besides, Lenin says EXPLICITLY that imperialism predates the monopoly stage of capitalism as well as capitalism itself.
No.494627
>>494623Russia would need to annex 14 countries to restore the Soviet Union. They’re already getting tons of pushback for even thinking about possibly taking a part of Ukraine that’s already pro-Russia. How do you expect them to annex them 14 countries?
No.494628
Hopefully we can see a new communist movement arise in Ukraine once it falls apart and a power vacuum is created. At this point I'm expecting the east including the capital Kiev to be occupied by Russia while the west is left as an extremely unstable mess and rump state ripe for takeover. But I'm probably just dreaming here since communism has been dead in Ukraine for a while now and the surrounding nations would do all they can to quash any rising communist movements.
No.494629
>>494627The rejoining of Belarus, Ukraine, and Kazakhstan is the most important part right now. The other wayward nations can be absorbed in due course
No.494630
>>494626>The US spends huge sums of money to prop up its allies all the time.except the U.S. gets commodities from Israel, from Afghanistan, Colombia, etc
What exact thing extracted Russia after they got ass-blasted with sanctions, forcing them to leave Venezuela? tell me.
>>494626
>class character of Russia's state was>inb4 muh reactionary fascistic nature of the Russian elitesThat's your answer. You are a moron that believes Russia is imperialism twisting the reality, when they have never invaded another country to take control, by the use of force to offset their profit rates.
>>494626
>created by Soviet society itselfThe society that was prosperous with socialism, are you insane? that would imply that socialism creates contradictions, and that's not the case. Contradictions were created by the external influence, the capitalism pred
ating from abroad, either in the way of hardcore anti-communists or in the form of this apparently harmless fake leftist.
>>494626>So the Russian Empire wasn't imperialist? I don't even know how you ask this.
>hadn't even reached the capitalist stage of developmentOh yeah, I forgot the tsars were fighting the german empire with sticks and stones, and never exploited other regions under their rule.
No.494631
>>494627As for pushback what exactly is America going to do? Launch all those nukes they’ve disabled?
No.494632
>>494625I prefer Khrushchev because Soviet Union peaked materially and culturally during his power.
No.494633
>>494629What does Lukashenko think of Putin?
No.494634
>>494627Through the consent of those other countries. Most people in former Soviet states want to revive the Soviet Union.
No.494635
>>494632Only because it was riding off the success of Stalin. Khrushchev sabotaged the USSR wherever he could and cowardly surrendered Cuba to the whims of the imperialists when a real leader would have stood his ground
No.494636
>>494635Peaceful coexistence was a good policy and starting a nuclear war not so. Brezhnev and stagnation lead to failure.
No.494637
>>494634The porkies that be, whether in the former states or in Russia, will never allow that to happen. And frankly, without Russian porkies out of the picture the idea of SU revival can never manifest.
No.494638
>>494623I think you mean restoration of the Russian Empire, not the USSR.
No.494639
>>494636Lol, and how did peaceful coexistence work out? Oh right, the USSR fell apart. There is no “coexisting” with the enemies of socialism especially when fellow socialists are being threatened. Beria or Kaganovich would have let the nukes fly and the US would be no more
No.494640
>>494637It’s an unfortunate consequence. If only Putin wiped them out just before he retired and put in place a state-run meritocracy
No.494641
>>494638Orientalist trash. Sure, when the West expands to plunder that’s a “democracy”, but because this nation is led by the east suddenly it’s an “empire”
No.494642
>>494626>Lenin says EXPLICITLY that imperialism predates the monopoly stage of capitalism as well as capitalism itself.Sabofag having trouble comprehending Lenin yet again
Lenin says imperialism existed prior before qualifying this with that "even the colonial policy of previous stages of capitalism is essentially different from the colonial policy of finance capital"
< Even the capitalist colonial policy of previous stages of capitalism is essentially different from the colonial policy of finance capital. https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ch06.htmESSENTIALLY DIFFERENT
Full quote in context
<Colonial policy and imperialism existed before the latest stage of capitalism, and even before capitalism. Rome, founded on slavery, pursued a colonial policy and practised imperialism. But “general” disquisitions on imperialism, which ignore, or put into the background, the fundamental difference between socio-economic formations, inevitably turn into the most vapid banality or bragging, like the comparison: “Greater Rome and Greater Britain.” [5] Even the capitalist colonial policy of previous stages of capitalism is essentially different from the colonial policy of finance capital. No.494643
>>494642Careful, he’ll just misquote Lenin again in a desperate effort to justify western imperialism and then have the gall to claim he’s not an anarkiddie
No.494644
>>494614Internal contradictions are the basis of change. External factors are at most secondary and the Bush administration in the U.S. (with the ominous exception of Dick Cheney, then defense secretary) were not enthusiastic about a USSR breakup because of the dangers (fear of wars, loose nukes, etc.). The narrative that the U.S. caused the collapse is a benefit to superpower nationalists in the U.S. and modern-day Russian nationalists (who are not communists) who are also invested in the idea of the USSR being inept and unable to resist America.
>Bush came to Moscow for the first time in his presidency in late July 1991 for a summit meeting with Gorbachev. On this trip, he also visited the Ukrainian capital Kyiv–Ukraine at this point being “a sovereign if not yet independent state” (p. 53). Kravchuk, the speaker of the Ukrainian parliament and fourth principal actor, welcomed Bush to Kyiv. In his speech to the Ukrainian parliament, where the Communists still held a solid majority, Bush did not want to undermine Gorbachev’s policy of holding together the Soviet Union by favoring outright Ukrainian independence, making the confusing distinction that “freedom is not the same as independence” (p. 64). In the summer of 1991, Bush did not support nationalist movements, such as Rukh (the People’s Movement of Ukraine for Perestroika), and the disintegration of the Soviet Union. Washington pursued, in the words of National Security Council staffer Nicholas Burns, a policy of “stable decline” (p. 64). The Communists liked Bush’s cautious approach to Ukrainian independence, but Rukh rejected it and so did Ukrainian Americans. William Safire, the sharp-witted New York Times columnist, dubbed it the “Chicken Kiev speech,” making fun of the president’s proverbial indecisiveness (p. 65).https://networks.h-net.org/node/28443/reviews/30563/bischof-plokhy-last-empire-final-days-soviet-union No.494645
>>494396Congress bans arms to Ukraine militia linked to neo-Nazis (2018)
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis"The Leahy Law bans U.S. aid from going to groups when the “secretary of State has credible information that such unit has committed a gross violation of human rights. But proponents of a ban specific to Azov say the Leahy Law did not preclude it from getting aid, since the secretary of State has never made such a determination about the group." Pic Related
No.494646
>>494641Not sure why you're getting so triggered over me stating simple facts. While I oppose all the western dickwaving and warmongering towards Russia, they also seek their own capitalist empire to compete with the American one. And it would be nothing like the USSR since Putin and his clique are right wing capitalist oligarchs.
No.494647
>>494609Remember this narrative is getting pushed by RT employee Maupin. But inadvertently it reinforces the idea that the U.S. "won" the Cold War by defeating the Soviet Union. In fact, the USSR was intact at the end of the "conflict," not militarily defeated, and Bush was very keen to keep the reformist Gorbachev in power and to avoid a breakup of the USSR because he feared a nuclear-armed Yugoslavia-type breakup with several potentially unstable nuclear states resulting.
No.494648
>>494639>>494645>Congress bans arms to Ukraine militia linked to neo-Nazis (2018)Iran-contras all over again (x2)
No.494649
>>494630>What exact thing extracted Russia after they got ass-blasted with sanctions, forcing them to leave Venezuela?The strategic benefits of an anti-US state in the Americas.
>when they have never invaded another country to take controlThey literally just invaded Kazakhstan to prop up a comprador regime.
>that would imply that socialism creates contradictionsIt obvioisly does, read Mao's "On the Correct Handling of Contradictions Among the People". Only the higher stage of communism is free of contradictions.
>Oh yeah, I forgot the tsars were fighting the german empire with sticks and stones, and never exploited other regions under their ruleThat's exactly my point. They did exploit regions under their rule, and they did this despite being a predominantly feudal and agrarian country that was nowhere near the monopoly stage of capitalism. If we are to follow your understanding, we would have to conclude that because it had not yet reached this stage, the Russian Empire was not imperialist.
>>494642>Lenin says imperialism existed prior before qualifying this with that "even the colonial policy of previous stages of capitalism is essentially different from the colonial policy of finance capital"Yeah no shit it's different. Obviously an empire based on slavery like Rome is going to operate via different mechanisms than a capitalist empire like Britain. A capitalist empire that does not have a financial oligarchy is going to operate through different mechanisms than one that does. However this doesn't mean that one is less imperialist than the other, and it pretty clearly means that Lenin did not consider a financial oligarchy to be a prerequisite of imperialism. Hence saying that Russia can't be imperialist because it lacks a financial oligarchy makes no sense. The mere fact that it operates through different mechanisms doesn't make it preferable. The Spanish feudal colonial empire of the 16th century was just as vile, murderous, and worthy of destruction as its capitalist successors. But according to you, because Spain lacked a financial oligarchy and capitalist monopolies at that time, it wasn't imperialist and we shouldn't worry about it.
No.494650
>>494613>Regular non financialised capital could only be imperialist in the past before the financial bourgeoisie displaced them. Why? If Russian oil porkies want to enlist the aid of the Russian state to secure investments and exploit the resources of another country, why can't they do this without a financial oligarchy?
No.494651
Russian Communists want to up the ante with Ukraine
It would be “morally justified” for Russia to recognize the independence of the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics to save the people from “genocide,” a group of Russian Communist MPs claimed on Wednesday.
Led by party head Gennady Zyuganov, politicians from the country’s largest opposition party penned a draft resolution calling on parliament to ask Russian President Vladimir Putin to proclaim the two areas in east Ukraine as independent nations and asked the government to provide “humanitarian aid” to the region.
Separatists in the two self-proclaimed republics of Donetsk (DPR) and Lugansk (LPR) declared independence in 2014, following the events of the Maidan when violent street protests toppled a democratically elected government in Kiev.
Both of the states remain unrecognized by both Moscow and Kiev, despite calls from some in Russia to support their cause. Putin has repeatedly refused to do so in the past, noting that they are part of Ukraine.
Now, with tensions between Ukraine and Russia at an all-time high, the Communists have again proposed that Moscow hold negotiations to formally recognize the DPR and LPR. In the draft decree, the MPs called the recognition of the self-proclaimed republics “reasonable and morally justified,” suggesting that the people living there are threatened by “genocide.” There was no evidence presented to suggest that mass murder is a serious threat.
In addition, the politicians reported that locals living in the DPR and LPR have been living under constant shelling from Ukrainian forces for eight years.
“The Ukrainian authorities have stopped paying pensions and social benefits and imposed a complete economic blockade on the population and enterprises of the Donetsk and Luhansk people’s republics,” the document reads. “The actions of the Ukrainian authorities can well be compared to the genocide of its people.”
The Communist MPs also claimed that “democratic bodies and governments with all the attributes of legitimate power have been built” in both the DPR and LPR since 2014.
In response, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said that he had not seen the draft bill and could not comment.
In 2015, the leaders of Russia, Germany, France, and Ukraine came together in Minsk to agree on a package of measures meant to stop fighting in the Donbass. After lengthy discussions, the four nations agreed on a 13-point document meant to ensure peace in the region. Included in the document is a pledge by Ukraine to amend the country’s constitution to include extra autonomy for the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, which are majority Russian-speaking.
No.494654
>>494646Eastern capitalism is nothing like western capitalism, pretending the two are equivalent just shows how much of a theorylet you truly are
No.494655
>>494654Eastern capitalism is still capitalism. Cope.
No.494656
>>494654Capitalism doesn’t have magical ethnic characteristics you coping nationalistic chinlet
Being a self-hating westerner =/= being a Marxist
No.494657
>>494655Maybe but it’s more malleable to socialism on the cultural level if nothing else
No.494658
>>494623God the people here really are the most sickening deluded cunts imaginable
No.494659
>>494657Literal idealism
Perform brain surgery with a bullet
No.494660
>>494615You’re a fucking moron burger elevating a single socialist party that’s hardly relevant in their own country to actually being able to manipulate the actions of an entire country of hundreds of millions
This is the highest and most deluded level of American exceptionalism I’ve seen yet
No.494661
>>494649>They literally just invaded Kazakhstan to prop up a comprador regime.The "comprador regime" in Kazakhstan was the Western leaning compradors that wanted to dismantle Kazakhstan for the ethnic Turks for their dreams of a Greater Turania
They never would've got it had the actual compradors succeeded - Kazakhstan would be Syria 2.0 which suits the West to burn a country neighbouring both China and Russia to the ground and have the cia gunrunning state of the art weapons through their proxies like Saudi Arabia (a country literally created by US)
Read here: the Rand corporation (one of the architects of the Islamic arc of crisis in the 70s) literally stated what the US should do in central Asia
https://thecommunists.org/2022/01/20/news/kazakhstan-failed-coup-usa-russia/>Only the higher stage of communism is free of contradictions.It's amazing you read On Contradiction and don't see the contradictions in the current Russian bourgeois state. The Russian bourgeois would like to enact am imperialist policy but are restrained by imperialism
This leads them to actually expending their energy (and blood and money) on helping imeprialised nations with no or little benefit to themselves
>we would have to conclude that because it had not yet reached this stage, the Russian Empire was not imperialistRussian empire was imperialist but not in the Marxist definition of the word
>However this doesn't mean that one is less imperialist than the other, It clearly does. Russia fights against imperialism (and is a victim of it given the US supported Chechen terrorists in 90s to balkanise Russia)
It is the US that wrings the earth with blood today. Russia has stopped Ukraine in the east from being nazified and stopped imperialists in Syria
>and it pretty clearly means that Lenin did not consider a financial oligarchy to be a prerequisite of imperialism.Attempting to frame the imperialism with its pre Lenin definition "ends in banality" (go reread what I posted on essentially different and what Lenin is actually stating
>Hence saying that Russia can't be imperialist because it lacks a financial oligarchy makes no sense. Russia has a financial oligarchy but it's foreign policy is not imperialist. It also exports capital but that doesn't make it imperialist either (otherwise you'd end up like the Paul Motrin faggot claiming "Cuba is imperialist" because they export some capital)
The most important chapter of Lenin's book on imperialism is PARASITISM
The most glaring point is that imperialism becomes parasitic on other nations and deliberately holds back production of other nations to retain its parasitic position
>Since monopoly prices are established, even temporarily, the motive cause of technical and, consequently, of all other progress disappears to a certain extent and, further, the economic possibility arises of deliberately retarding technical progress.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ch08.htmNow ask yourself: which economy actually contributes to the world
The US which has built a FIRE economy of fictitious capital and relies heavily on Intellectual Property (rent seeking behaviour) and imposes deindustrialization and retardation of technical development on other nations via the world Bank and IMF (by making them dependent on US agriculture for instance)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIRE_economyOr the Russians thats economy is based in real tangible goods (energy, raw materials etc)
This isn't the interwar period of multiple competing imperialist powers so yes one country can be more imperialist than another and it entirely shows in how reactionary and degenerate US society is
Which is why the opposition party in Russia is the Communist party whilst the US just has two far right parties but one of the parties thinks cross dressers should be able to shit in girls toilets
>The rentier state is a state of parasitic, decaying capitalism, and this circumstance cannot fail to influence all the socio-political conditions of the countries concerned, in general, and the two fundamental trends in the working-class movement, in particular.https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ch08.htm No.494662
>>494650>Why? If Russian oil porkies want to enlist the aid of the Russian state to secure investments and exploit the resources of another country, why can't they do this without a financial oligarchy?You have to read Lenin to get some context, he explains how finance capital becomes the dominant force behind imperialism. I haven't yet boiled this down to a few talking points i can throw in a comment. In this specific case the Russian state bureaucracy has no interest to pursue this course of action because they would never recoup the cost.
No.494663
>>494658>>494659>>494660>>494656You can reply to multiple different posts in one post, dude. Don't need to shorten the lifespan of the thread like this.
No.494664
>>494663You are asking him to consider something outside himself, an impossible task for a greasy burger brain.
No.494665
>>494664t. Potentially the burger unironically claiming the CPUSA caused the fall of the Soviet Union
No.494666
>>494665I wish all of you a fiery death.
No.494667
>>494666t. Self-hating yankee
No.494669
>>494668As I said elsewhere, this is a sign that US is a lot more serious about war than deniers think.
No.494670
>>494660>projectionI never say they alone, but oh boy, they played a good deal, too. Let repeating in his base, like it is happening right now in Russia, what the western ruling class was saying, just so not caught being named "tools" of the USSR, like now "tools" of Russia, and let these people get inside (Angela Davis visited countless of time the USSR, for example, Bernie Sanders at least like 3-4 times) surely did charming.
Anatoly Chubais, Yegor Saigar, all of them studied in the same universities open to exchange information with other communist parties from abroad.
If you feel bad because the west did what they did, through the right, and through the left, to the USSR, that's not my problem, I am not a westernoid, after all.
>>494649>The strategic benefits of an anti-US state in the Americas.Then welcome Russia Imperialism with multipolar-world characteristics, chums 🙄
>>494649>That's exactly my point.No, all of those empires, feudal system, slave system, worked around an
interest of profit. Listen, of course before capitalism the empires existed, but they were a sub-form of capitalism.
Let me put it this way if your feudal lord does not guide his feudalism based on the interest for profit (profit-driven decisions) but "by god-given commands" (really really, not some presumption, but behind of their actions profit-driven decisions disguised as "god said so") he would lead your system into chaos because it would be none-sensical to, for example, let all your grain to rot because "the holly voice told you so", and probably will be executed and beheaded.
Thus, you have that bourgeoisie behind the system rule forming the structure, private ownership as pre-requisite, and once they override the aristocracy pointing out the flaws of their system and the need for expansion. Whether it is slavery, or it is feudal, or aristocracy, all of them have to have the interest behind them. You don't see that to the extent Lenin describes, to begin with, in Russia.
>>494644>>494644>Internal contradictions are the basis of changeBut one thing is toward more socialism, and another completely different is taking the opposite path. The contradictions of socialism cannot lead to its demise, or else would be a failed ideology. Sabotard wants to exculpate the western left (like him), and how it helped to degenerate the USSR to feel redeemed, like not one single thing internally was a result from abroad, because this way he can accuse without guilt the Russian ruling class of "oligarchy, imperialist, etc" without possing a double-standard. Western left, should, for once, and for good, forever, fall in line and let others guide the world and marginalized themselves.
Their arrogance will not let them.
No.494671
Bets on it’s a nothingburger.
No.494673
>>494661>The "comprador regime" in Kazakhstan was the Western leaning compradors that wanted to dismantle Kazakhstan for the ethnic Turks for their dreams of a Greater Turania Are you sure it wasn't the government of Kazakhstan that was allowing foreign corporations (including both Western and Russian ones) to plunder the country? The very same government that Russia intervened to protect? The government Russia intervened to save was a comprador state by any definition.
>The Russian bourgeois would like to enact am imperialist policy but are restrained by imperialism So why tf are you shilling for them? Why are they preferable? You clearly admit that Russia has imperialist designs, and that any aid it renders to anti-imperialist countries like Venezuela is entirely instrumental to this goal. If their ultimate goal is imperialism, then this is a conflict between imperialists and aspiring imperialists. Why should we take a side here? Any instance where Russian influence supplants American influence will result in Russia realizing its aspirations of empire. Apart from the multipolarity argument, I don't see why this is beneficial at all.
>Russian empire was imperialist but not in the Marxist definition of the word Then why did Lenin include it among the imperialist powers?
>Russia fights against imperialism No it doesn't, it fights to establish its own empire. A nation with imperialist aspirations cannot be anti-imperialist. Any aid it renders actual anti-imperialist struggles is merely collateral, and it will betray those struggles in pursuit of its own imperialist goals wherever possible.
>Russia has a financial oligarchy but it's foreign policy is not imperialist.You yourself admit that Russia's ruling class has imperialist designs, you admit that it has a financial oligarchy. So then the only thing stopping them them being imperialist themselves (assuming they are not already) is being constrained by rival capitalist powers.
>>494670>Then welcome Russia Imperialism with multipolar-world characteristicsI welcome multipolarity because it allows socialists and anti-imperialists to play competing powers off against one another to their benefit. Not because any of these competing empires has any desirable traits in and of itself.
>Whether it is slavery, or it is feudal, or aristocracy, all of them have to have the interest behind them. You don't see that to the extent Lenin describes, to begin with, in Russia.What are you basing that on? Russia is a capitalist country. It is a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. In what conceivable way is profit-seeking not the dominant driving force of the Russian economy, and thus its politics?
No.494674
>>494653>Ukraine hits back at BidenLoL, the problem is, rethugs will take this just as an opportunity to call communist Biden wants communist Putin, to feed their own populace doubling down things.
They already let a bill considered by Krauts a declaration of to be debated on the senate, led by rethugs. That speaks high volumes about how deranged the situation is for them.
Lmao zelinsky.
>>494668>>494402Now, this is very interesting developing news. From FT, specifically, the big puddle for the EU ruling class, seems they found the less reactionary elements to avoid an escalation with Russia.
No.494675
>>494631Probably more sanctions along with new sanctions from Western Europe.
No.494676
>>494560>You can post as many Strawman attacks against the CPI (Maoist) piece as you wantNTA, I took the time to carefully read everything and there was no misrepresentation of the article in that reply. It was a direct counter argument to several points also digs deeper at why the author holds the position they do (mainly a case of theoryletism).
>but you can’t disprove that Dengist China is a Capitalist country with Monopolistic Corporations that export Capital to periphery countriesThat post just did, you are dogmatic
No.494677
>>494614>>494670Whats so hard about admitting that the USSR collapsed due to Khruschevite Revisionism that ultimately metastasized to the point that a Liberal like Gorbachev was able to take power and completely demolish the Socialist system with his "Reforms", instead of a schizo conspiracy that the irrelevant CPUSA and Bernie Sanders did it?
>>494671100%. Screenshot this.
No.494678
>>494600>Annex the entire country making it part of Russia.>Annex some of the country but leave the rest alone.That would mean sanctions and embargoes, but Russia can just strengthen ties with other 2nd and 3rd World countries. It's possible that some 3rd World countries will cut ties with Russia.
>Topple the current government of Ukraine and install a new government more friendly towards Russia.This is much more "legit"; i.e., Russia can still maintain legitimacy in the international stage while securing Ukraine.
No.494682
>>494678Yeah this on a practical standpoint doesn’t really work. Ukraine as it is now is a half destroyed garbage dump so much worse than before euromaidan. Annexation of such a terrible place would not be worth it at all. All best we’ll Russia once again backing the Donbas to take over the entire country, installing some tough guy leader like Belarus and be done with it.
This also benefits the EU as the current Ukrainian government is now a big liability that complete tailing the US UK axis rather than in their control. A pro Russia Ukraine would mean an ambivalence towards the EU and a hostile attitude toward the US. Something they can secretly benefit off of.
>>494677Hey now. The problem which started it also partly came from Stalin. Without the purge people like Khrushchev would never got to that position. Another big problem was Stalin’s terrible foreign policies that alienated even the new built up Eastern Europe socialist allies.
No.494683
Russia could take the Eastern half of Ukraine and face nothing but sanctions from the West
No.494684
>>494682The EU/West >>>>NEEED<<<< a country to train far right terrorists and other loonies in and they are running out of places to do that. The ready made justification for global war against any competitor and the destruction of real democracy wherever humanity rears its head is the lifeblood and raison d'etre of the MIC and the Schleiffen plan of the modern era. The world tires of this played out and planned Nazi menace and it's bankrupt ideology of puppet nations dancing to the whims of international capital is laughable. The money can move to other nations, but the people belong in their pens? Even as the peasantry are paid to embrace the dogma, it is their ignorance not their education that fuels the program. Low skill workers are low productivity workers and embracing ignorance is economic suicide. Nobody want's Ukraine's dirt, they just don't want an armed camp of destructive, low earning, deluded right wing extremists on their border.
>>494683https://oec.world/en/profile/country/rusNothing would more firmly push Russia and China together than economic sanctions and nothing would do more to undermine Americo-European positioning. The EU has more to lose than the Americans in terms of trade with Russia and in case you didn't hear the Euros are getting tired of giving blowjobs for no return just because Uncle Sam said so. Neither American political party is prepared to engage in real economic growth and the IOUs of the derivatives sector aren't worth the paper they're printed on if the US is fine with insurrectionists going free. Again, right wing terrorist loonies; they are a poison in the system and worldwide we need to stop funding the machines that make them. They are bad for business and they are bad for capitalism.
https://oec.world/en/profile/country/rus?depthSelector1=HS2Depthhttps://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/bensmith/polish-foreign-minister-we-gave-the-us-a-blowjob-got-nothinghttps://www.reuters.com/article/olympics-2022-poland-idCNL8N2TY475 No.494687
>>494685Adorno was right, America is a country of proto-fascists
>>494684Economic decoupling and dedollarization is more likely to help the world than any nascent leftist movement at this point in time
No.494691
Ukraine hits back at BidenUkrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has lashed out at hints from his US counterpart Joe Biden that the West may not follow through with a strong response in the case of a “minor” attack by Russia. The US had previously insisted that Kiev deserves unwavering support from Washington and that tough measures would be taken against Moscow should it order an invasion.
Taking to Twitter on Thursday, Zelensky issued a reminder to heads of other influential states, as the “president of a great power,” that “there are no minor incursions and small nations.”
He added that “there are no minor casualties” or lesser “grief from the loss of loved ones.”
Zelensky’s dig comes after Biden admitted at a press conference on Wednesday that there are conflicting opinions among NATO members as to how the military bloc would respond to Russian “aggression” in Ukraine.
“There are differences in NATO as to what countries are willing to do, depending on what happens,” he revealed, acknowledging that the reaction would depend on the scale of a possible offensive.
At one point in the address, Biden suggested that a “minor incursion” might not be met with a severe response. He gave the example of cyber warfare – as opposed to killing Ukrainian troops – and said, “we can respond in the same way.”
The American president acknowledged that while Russia could eventually win a conventional shooting war with Ukraine, this would come at the heavy cost of human life. “This is not all just a cakewalk for Russia. Militarily, they have overwhelming superiority relative to Ukraine, but they’ll pay a severe price,” he explained, touching on potential economic embargoes as a result of a conflict.
https://www.rt.com/russia/546687-ukraine-zelensky-angry-biden/Beyond fucking parody, man.
No.494692
>>494523Wrong
As we all know, the correct Marxist take in WW1 was to side with central powers to dunk on the west
No.494693
>>494681>So which Russia-Ukraine thread will it be when the shit actually happens? I'm guessing thread 13 with /leftypol/ finally realizing that the invasion had already occurred around thread 20.Idk man, I'll just put the guess at 9-10. Normal threads are slow to die.
>>494683>Russia could take the Eastern half of Ukraine and face nothing but sanctions from the WestThat's a plus for Russia. For if Russia were unable to trade with the West, it would just strengthen ties with other countries, especially China and (if only) SEA states. However one must note that the abundance of ethnic Chinese there may render SEA as China's playground, so Russia must tread carefully on that region so as to not sever ties and create another Sino-Russian split.
>>494685This is a reason to boycott Google. Promoting far-right material while silencing lefties. What a shame.
>>494684>The EU/West >>>>NEEED<<<< a country to train far right terrorists and other loonies in and they are running out of places to do thatUkraine may be their last bastion. Because although conservative countries still exist afterwards but they are mostly Muslim states, so it would be a hard time before the rightists can train themselves in another place again.
No.494694
>>494691Biden is terminally retarded, just that the CIA have plannes to install it in order to make America a full-blown fascist state by 2024
No.494695
Michael McFaul, a well-known "Russia watcher" and Stanford professor who previously served as Washington’s ambassador to Russia during President Barack Obama’s era [tweeted] that “Ukrainian democracy today, not Ukrainian membership in NATO in some distant future, is the real threat to [Russian President Vladimir] Putin.” Similar remarks have been made by the notoriously anti-Russian academic in recent weeks.
[…] Hitting out at McFaul’s words, Pushkov blasted the “amazing stupidity of this thesis,” which he insisted is “repeated over and over again in the United States by pseudo-experts on Russia.”
It says only one thing, the senator claimed – “they know nothing about the attitude of the vast majority of Russian citizens to what is happening in Ukraine and do not want to know.” He accused Western experts of living “in their false ideologies, where it is comfortable and convenient for them.”
“It is difficult to find people in Russia who would dream of a life like the one in Ukraine now,” he stated. “It is impossible to envy it.”
https://www.rt.com/russia/546645-pushkov-american-analysts-stupidity/ No.494696
>>494695>Michael McFaul, a well-known "Russia watcher" and Stanford professor who previously served as Washington’s ambassador to Russia during President Barack Obama’s era [tweeted] that “Ukrainian democracy today, not Ukrainian membership in NATO in some distant future, is the real threat to [Russian President Vladimir] Putin.” Similar remarks have been made by the notoriously anti-Russian academic in recent weeks.It is indeed a threat. A bourgeois pseudo-"democracy" right beside a notoriously EST. 1917 anti-imperialist power. Putin's measures will be highly appreciated.
>It says only one thing, the senator claimed – “they know nothing about the attitude of the vast majority of Russian citizens to what is happening in Ukraine and do not want to know.” He accused Western experts of living “in their false ideologies, where it is comfortable and convenient for them.”I feel pity for them, for they must live by their false thought in order to feed themselves. Especially when they were employed by said think tank. Or are they in fact crypto-barons with millions of dollars in assets?
No.494697
>>494695does china have america watchers?
No.494698
>>494697It doesn't need them, America airs its laundry in public and refuses to fuck off.
No.494699
>>494697America have already showed off its "prowess" that even the most mundane of Chinese can observe how America is like.
>>494698What freedom fetish does to a mf
No.494701
>>494692based and Parvus-pilled
No.494704
>>494703Russia
>I am going to annex part of Ukraine as a buffer against NATO encroachment.USA
<What did he mean by this? No.494705
>>494703>This is about Ukraine's ""right to exist""Lol they're literally just transplanting Zionist rhetoric to any convenient conflict now. US imperialists the laziest fuckers around.
No.494707
>>494703>RUSSOIDS DON'T CARE ABOUT HOHOLSTAN REEEE!!!!!They deserve to be anschlussed and much of the population reeducated. NATOcucks seethe.
Oh and by the way if you don't support Russia's "invasion" of Ukraine and China's potential "invasion" why do you fund Indonesian forces back in 1975 when they invade Timor? You guys are massive hypocrites that deserve to face the wall.
>>494705Because Azov if Ukraine's still there.
>>494704More like:
<US: IT'S A HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONERINOOOOOO NO INVASIONERINOOOOOOO No.494708
>>494703>right to existGet ready gang. The US is going to call anyone critical of Ukrainian nazis as antihoholism. I’m so scared!
No.494709
>>494706I was going to say those are both pretty shitty pancakes, but they look more like they're intended to be crepes.
No.494710
>>494706>you will never make pancakes with your political bros like this;~;
No.494712
>>494703Blinken is such a retarded piece of shit
It's impressive how dumb the government class has become in USA
No.494713
mfs in here really talking about "eastern capitalism" lmao
No.494715
>>494706Fascists beware, the day of pancake is nigh.
No.494722
>>494719mushroom cloud over berlin
No.494723
>>494670>But one thing is toward more socialism, and another completely different is taking the opposite path. The contradictions of socialism cannot lead to its demise, or else would be a failed ideology. I think this is a metaphysical point of view. First, we can only say there has been a change of quantity to a change of quality when capitalism is totally overthrown and replaced by socialism completely with no possibility to reverse. Secondly, I don't think history moves in a linear or straight line with an unbroken march towards socialism and the communism. Contradictions exist in every single thing – that is the primary law of dialectics – including socialism and historical progression is not a straight line but more of a spiral or wave pattern. There's also the negation of the negation. So socialism which emerged in the USSR first negated capitalism, but then the threat posed by that socialism forced capitalism to reform itself, and that reformed capitalism negated that socialism (which failed), so successful socialism is dialectical unity between reformed capitalism and failed socialism. "Two steps forward, one step back" in other words. Because through that dialectical unity of opposites, the world has tortuously (i.e. lengthy, complex, with many twists and turns) progressed towards socialism from a long-term perspective.
The downturn of the USSR was precisely because, though it indeed achieved the industrialization under Stalinism, it did not have the advanced social productivity to maintain its political superstructure in the long run which in return could not reinforce the economic substructure. We can debate other problems such as the neglect of light industry and over-reliance on energy exports and the tremendous social cost toward industrialization and the losses from World War II. Either way, as a poor country, the USSR had to rely on the communists to initiate massive industrialization in a decade or less which the western countries took hundreds of years on the cost of the whole world (slavery, colonization, imperialism that brought the accumulation of capital and tech advancement) to accomplish, to radically move forward into the industrial age from a mostly feudal-based society.
To pivot to China, though, because of the strong elements of socialism and state capitalism, a "financial crisis" is much less likely to happen in China than in the West, and even if that happens due to the globalization "contributed" by Western capitalism and financial interests, the "socialistic" state can also smart manage that as Karl Marx predicted regarding the endless cycle of crisis of capitalism and his solution in socialism.
No.494725
>>494719>American Liberal advocating for a military conflict that will not take place on his own American soilI swear to God I hate Americans
Could you imagine, an American inviting China's millitary to come and fight his own American government
Delusional
No.494726
>>494718>no war but the class warChina reuniting with Taiwan
is class war and you are a lib if you don't see it.
No.494727
>>494726mbe if China was socialist
No.494728
>>494727The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.
No.494729
>>494728if they are both capitalist than it's just inter-capitalist competition and Lenin would say "don't do that, it's whack"
No.494730
>>494729More like Lenin would pretend to be pro China and take their money to fund revolutions. Like he actually did in his time.
No.494731
>>494730maybe but he was opposed to WW1, which was a big deal for the time, and he wrote "the proletariat has nothing to gain from war between capitalist nations" or something like that
No.494733
>>494732Damn so the US plans on bombing Ukraine until Russia says "okay we don't want this irradiated pile of rubble anymore"?
No.494735
>>494725It gets worse, the dude is european. German to be exact.
No.494740
>>494719redlibs are rightoids just in progressive and red garb to make them look humane
>>494718>no war but the class warholy based
>>494726>China reuniting with Taiwan is class war and you are a lib if you don't see it.also based
the bourgie dpp must step down
No.494742
>>494741<They keep massing armaments and sending peopleAt this point I'm still 80% of the idea it's a nothingburger, but I give a 20% probability that the Ukrainians are the one that are gearing up to attack the Donbass.
No.494743
>>494737BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
No.494744
>>494741it turns out the russians attack the baltics
No.494745
>>494737>>494737We're getting too cocky ukrainbros?
No.494747
If shooting starts, is the war going to last weeks like the Armenia incident? Years? It depends on who starts?
No.494748
SPAIN DOES NOT RULE OUT SENDING TROOPS TO UKRAINEhttps://www.elmundo.es/espana/2022/01/19/61e86a0ae4d4d8cc038b45e4.htmlThey are preparing a pretext for all out invasion of the Donbass, aren't they?
No.494752
>>494750ngl it seems like even the old Russian analysts are kinda spooked. this is truly a spooky time, good luck out there anon-kun
No.494754
Inshallah, all of Ukraine burns
No.494755
>>494750С богом, товарищ наш
No.494757
>>494752The scale of the Russian force buildup reminds me of something my dad said before the Persian Gulf War when the news was talking about "will we or won't we invade," and then he was driving to work one morning and saw a train pass by loaded with tons of armored vehicles heading to the coast and he thought "yup, we're gonna invade."
The dilemma the U.S. is in right now is that it wants to shift forces to the Pacific, so I think the trend is for the U.S. to throw Stingers and ATGMs at the Ukrainians and say "good luck!" and then telling the NATO countries in Europe to boost their own military spending which a Russian invasion of Ukraine will provide enough of a "shock" to compel.
No.494758
They invade and then?
What could be a long term consequence for this?
No.494760
>>494758NATO is far too pussy to actually send troops to Kekraine and risk WW3. Russia knows this and will stroll in, blow up some Nazis and annex the russian-speaking part of Kekraine. The US will scream and cry "genocide!" etc. and place heavy sanctions on Russia and do nothing else. Russia will be blocked from trading in US dollars, then economic decoupling, allyship with China and dedollarization will grow that much stronger. Multipolarity bros, I'm feeling really good right now.
No.494762
>>494718>No war but class warBullshit
World war 2
Literally any war of liberation (despite being led by national bourgeois over Africa/s.america and Asia)
A Nazi state like Ukraine getting crushed would be based. Loads of rightoid tourists have gone to sign up. Could give a fuck less about a country that renames all their streets after Stephan Bandera
No.494765
>>494764This but Germany sticks with with Russian gas pipeline and US gets eternally btfod
No.494766
Ukraine will be overwhelmed like Berlin, but never rise again
No.494767
>>494760> a fascist jingoist country will stroll in and blow up some NazisRussiaboo leftists are truly pathetic
t. русский
No.494770
>>494750Back your bags son you about to be a refugee.
No.494771
>>494767How's the view in the western country you live in? Hopefully, you never moved on to Miami.
Critical support for Russia
t. son of Russian-Ukrainians emigrated after the IIWW.
No.494773
>>494767>Russia>fascistYou have to go back to reddit now. And no, wanting NATO to lose does not mean that one loves the winner
No.494774
>>494767I will never support a Neo Nazi supporting government
No.494777
>>494767Какая муха тя укусила? Пускай, Россией владеют фашисты. А вышеупомянутые “фашисты” слабее плюс непопулярнее натовцев. Без последних, можно появиться настоящие оппозиционеры, а не Майдауны.
No.494780
>>494778 (me)
The US is threatening direct WW3 to Russia if Russia does a move.
That's quite the escalation if I'm correct.
No.494781
>>494778probably just shit like US-based cyberattacks.
This is still a huge Nothingburger
No.494785
>>494778it means shuffling assets around, so US units in germany get moved to Poland or assets currently state side get deployed to the butthurt belt
No.494786
>>494785>so US units in germany get moved to Poland or assets currently state side get deployed to the butthurt beltYes, that's what the European capabilities of the US army means, not the american capabilities of the US.
You see, European capabilities of the US army means the capabilities the US army has in European soil (like, the numerous american bases that are in Europe), the american capabilities are the capabilities the US army has in American soil, you see.
No.494788
>>494787Go here and click the U button at the top to only show military flights.
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/ No.494789
>>494788>No military planes flying into/from Cuckraine>On a moment of highest tension.Yea they're hiding their signal or some shit.
Shit's wack.
It's also almost 12 AM in there, so there's that No.494792
As much as the Happooners delude themselves, this is still a massive Nothingburger due to the fact that the Russian Oligarchs (Putin is the biggest Oligarch) will not risk their Oil/Gas revenues, their Western Bank accounts, and their NYC/Miami/London/Tel Aviv pent houses in order to launch a unjustified Invasion of a country who’s citizens will fight tooth and nail to kick them out. The reason Putinist Russia would face such fierce resistance even in Eastern and Southern Ukraine is because “Novorossiya” is a Duginist/Eurasianist/Putinist/Vlasovite myth with Zero grounding in reality, as the only part of Pre-2014 Ukraine that is majority Ethnic Russian is Crimea which is already part of Russia and only was part of Ukraine due to the Revisionist Khrushchev awarding his Ukrainian supporters in the Politburo, while the rest of Eastern and Southern Ukraine is and always has been majority Ethnic Ukrainian as proven by the results of Censuses conducted from 1896 to 2001 (I posted a Ethnic map of Ukraine from the 2001 census that clearly shows my point with Ethnic Ukrainians in Orange and Ethnic Russians in Blue), which is the reason why Lenin included these regions in the Ukrainian SSR, and that they remained so for the entire history of the USSR.
In conclusion, anyone who advocates for the “Novorossiya” myth and justifies a Russian Invasion and Annexation of Eastern and Southern Ukraine to “liberate Ethnic Russians” (The Annexation of Crimea was justified because it is majority Ethnic Russian, but the annexation of the rest of Eastern and Southern Ukraine is not because these regions are majority Ethnic Ukrainian) is promoting Great Russian Chauvinism and the Imperialist and Fascist Duginist/Eurasianist/Vlasovite ideology of modern Capitalist Russia, which is explicitly Anti-Communist as it blames the USSR for granting Self-Determination to Ukrainians, as Putin and Dugin have bitched about this “Bolshevik mistake” endlessly, LOL.
No.494794
>>494697Closest would probably be Chen Weihua
No.494795
>>494792Russian expansion > NATO expansion. Seems like one or the other will happen at this point. Nothing to do with communism.
No.494799
>>494796Nazis and slave owners hanging out with each other as expected
Gusano and gusano
No.494800
why is there a thread cheering on an ethnonationalist invasion on /leftypol/?
No.494801
>>494800I don't think you quite understand what "ethnonationalist" is, to being with. Russians and Ukrainians are Slavics.
No.494802
>>494801is that the putin government line?
No.494803
>>494800Should we be paragons of virtue and tut-tut both sides on an internet forum?
No.494804
>>494802https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHr1U-ZelNoI think his government is even even more broader, trying to bring back the Muslims children from Syria whose parents were lied to fight for the ISIL.
No.494805
This is not about ethnonationalism, this is about NATO expansion
No.494806
>>494805Yeah, I am trying just to inform. Trying my best not behave like a smug when the first post appeared answering in a reasonable manner, but that's correct.
No.494807
You are all wrong, it's about ethics in games journalism
No.494808
>>494802Are you retarded?
No.494809
I have to say r/ukraine and r/ukrainianconflict have been hilarious lately. If you want to have a hearty kek check out either subreddit and see all the recent shit they've been posting. Like take this for example
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/s8ossv/actors_working_on_behalf_of_the_russian_state_who/Redditfags truly are something else
No.494810
>>494809In other news, water is wet.
No.494811
>>494795>Nothing to do with communismThen why is one better than the other in your diseased chauvinist mind?
Just admit you literally aren’t a communist and are totally on par with the same krauts that murdered Rosa and be done with it
No.494812
>>494792Based Lear
Leftypol is showing its true face in this thread
No.494813
>>494792Probably the most correct take.
They hated him because he told them the truth
No.494814
>>494811Because Russia isn't even half of the imperialist menace that the West is.
I hate to break it to you, but there is no communism anymore. Certainly, unilateral Western hegemony would not remedy that situation; arguably multipolarity could make it easier.
Stop moralizing
No.494815
>>494814>There is no communism anywhereThen don’t support any side you deluded cynical faggot
There wasn’t communism anywhere in 1914 either, God you happooner fags truly make me sick, like shit covering my shoe
No.494816
I'm seeing a lot of people calling Ukraine a Nazi state, there's obviously all the awful militias like Azov but who represents the Nazi stuff in government? Zelensky just looks neolib to me
No.494818
>>494792>will not risk their Oil/Gas revenuesMire like europeans oligarchs.
Macron backtracking, Germany not allowing U.K., Germany holding the guns with their serials, Turkey asking for more talks.
>their Western Bank accountsSilly, they've been interconnecting with China. They even have a particular currency to trade between China and Pakistan.
>The reason Putinist Russia would face such fierce resistance even in Eastern and Southern Ukraine is because “Novorossiya” is a Duginist/Eurasianist/Putinist/Vlasovite myth with Zero grounding in realitySchizo. Putin has never talked about Dugin, to begin with. I guess he even doesn't know what this guy is. And the insinuation, shame on these retards:
>>494815,
>>494812, that Russia isn't Eurasian and thus that's why the nationalists should reject, and it is justifiable the rejection of Russia is very nazbol of you.
Mods should ban you for prop nazbol propaganda using this disingenuous argument through this conflict.
>“Novorossiya”You keep using that word, but that's nothing said ever in Putin's mouth.
Meds, now.
No.494819
>>494815I don't "support" Russia just because I want NATO to be diminished, that's just your moral spook talking to you. They are the lesser evil and communism is nowehere to be found. Now maybe, just maybe, the lack of communism could be explained by dominance of the West since the USSR fell. But you purists, who value your own "support" more than what's actually happening, all ignore how a fractured bourgeois class is a weaker bourgeois class.
No.494820
>>494818>Rejecting this capitalist state that emerged by destroying Soviet Russia is “nazbol”Kill yourself you fucking self-hating western moron
All maupinites should shoot themselves
No.494823
>>494820>implying I am a westerner>projection>reeeeeAnon, you are the westerner.
No.494825
>>494824>Uncritical support for a literal anti-communist government formed by the people that destroyed the USSR and ushered in Western dominance over the entire world Perform a colonoscopy with a rusty machete you happooner faggot
You will never be a communist
No.494827
>>494817Watch out and you don't get a response like
<OMG BASED POLAND, FRANCE, BRITAIN, GERMANY INVADING THE IMPERIALIST (P)RUSSIAN EMPIRE AND LIBERATING ITS PEOPLE FROM THE "NOVOROSSIYA" THAT SAVED THE SLAVIC FROM RACE-MIXINGWe are about three or 4 threads of that reasoning.
No.494828
>>494825You are so delusional about my position, again I only "support" Russia in this binary context against NATO, but you sound like you can't understand this simple nuance
No.494829
>>494826So this is how you cucks rationalize simping for the people that destroyed the Soviet Union?
Fucking empty dipshit quotes you bleat out like Bible passages while standing behind the people that brought down the socialist bloc? America didn’t “win” the Cold War by beating the Soviet Union, they won when the people you simp for destroyed it. And if Russia wins, they will pound you into dust the same way the Germans would had they won WWI.
You happooner faggots are sickening, you can just admit that your beliefs center around hatred for the West, but don’t pretend to be a communist
No.494830
Idc about Kyiv regime. I hope Russia wipes the Banderite scum off the fucking map. The only path forward for the salvation of the Ukrainian people is the destruction of the Banderite regime.
No.494831
>>494829>So this is how you cucks rationalize simping for the people that destroyed the Soviet Union?The USSR was destroyed by capitalism predating from outside, as simple as. Since Stalin not being firm enough with the Chinese during the Korean war, to the last of them was purely a response from the outside threats.
If anything, blame the west.
No.494832
>>494829Oh they’ll get what’s coming eventually, but it’s the west that allows them to exist in the first place, forget about bearing responsibility for their ascent into power.
No.494835
>>494834See the nazbol post from king schizo.
>The reason Putinist Russia would face such fierce resistance even in Eastern and Southern Ukraine is that “Novorossiya” is a Duginist/Eurasianist/Putinist/Vlasovite myth with Zero grounding in realityLike, it is totally justified the backlash from Ukraine because "Putin=Dugin=Novorossiya", thus how dare they to inject Eurasian culture in that beloved white Slavic supremacist Ukrainian blood.
And the two phaggets not reading the interpretation of that bunch of baloneys which justifies the presence of nazis in ukraine.
No.494836
Russia
No.494837
Kicking Russia off the US dollar and then Germany choosing Russian gas over Anglo dicksucking would be the start of Europe turning away from America
No.494838
>>494835You are the one making this about retarded Racial shit not me, LOL. Where in my post did I accuse Russia of spreading “Eurasian” blood in Ukraine, LMAO. Ironically, you are the one spreading “Nazbol” ideas by promoting the unjustified annexation of a region Russia has no claim to, and spreading the Nazi myth that Ethnic Russians are “Eurasians” (Most Nazi propaganda portrayed Russians as being mixed race in order to “justify” genocide against them in their Evil White Supremacist ideology), which has been embraced by Dugin and Putin to justify transforming the once proud Socialist Superpower of Russia into Dengist Chinas sidekick.
No.494839
>>494838You claimed that Dugin and Putin have disagreed with Bolshevism yet you call them “Nazbols” which is a combination of “Nationalism” and “Bolshevism”
No.494840
I support novorossiya because they are confederate socialism in action
No.494843
>>494839“National Bolshevism” is Russian Fascism disguised with Soviet aesthetics, basically Strasserism applied to Russian conditions or a Schizo Russian variety of Dengism. Putin himself is a Right-wing Liberal Oligarch (basically a Sober Yeltsin that LARPs as a Nationalist), but a large percentage of his supporters (both in Russia and abroad) subscribe to these Schizo “Syncretic” Fascist ideologies like Eurasianism and National Bolshevism that were developed by Dugin (and trace their roots back to Nazi sympathizers like the infamous Vlasov and other Anti-Communist White Army degenerates).
No.494844
>>494838>Where in my post did I accuse Russia of spreading “Eurasian”>The reason Putinist Russia would face such fierce resistance even in Eastern and Southern Ukraine is that “Novorossiya” is a Duginist/Eurasianist/Putinist/Vlasovite myth with Zero grounding in reality
>eurasianistOf course, I was in part serious and in part shitposting whe I said
>beloved white Slavic supremacist Ukrainian blood.But to begin with your posts wasn't even serious from line 1
>As much as the Happooners delude themselves, this is still a massive Nothingburger due to the fact that the Russian Oligarchs (Putin is the biggest Oligarch) will not risk their Oil/Gas revenues, their When in fact is the opposite when the U.S. had to fight back against the bill that would be considered by the Krauts a declaration of war (due to the scope of the financial aggression).
Yeah, I beg pardon for mixing serious responses in the shit posting, but your schizoposting deserves it.
>>494838
>Russia has no claim toWould it be fun for you to say this if the communist party of Russia comes to power again.
>spreading the Nazi myth that Ethnic Russians are “Eurasians”Nazi myth? nazi myth is about superiority about the much aryan race over others whites, but of fucking course Russia is Eurasian see the surnames (last names) of most eastern regions and see how they change towards Asiatic versions, and going south you will see more Islamic names and last names, what are you into? this is nazbol 100% to believe Russia is not a set of different cultures.
> Dugin and Putin>can't cite one single time where Putin has said Dugin's name.>implying isn't the west who punches Russia to see for the eastern/Asian territories rather than just focusing on the west.Ay lmao.
Also, this:
>>494839.
king schizo you are retard.
No.494845
>>494844 (me)
Said that that post just seems to justify the defense of nazism in Ukraine on the part
>"fierce resistance even in Eastern and Southern Ukraine is because"Which is a backward conclusion. Not only Ukraine separate from
communists, the USSR not from Russia, but they also started a de-communization by themselves, overthrowing Lenin's statues, erasing the USSR memory. The rejection does not come from (paraphrasing) 'the auto-determination violated by these eurasianists' (like if the USSR weren't including MORE Eurasian/Middle East ethnic groups, like Azerbaijan a Kazhakastan).
All your argumentation is plainly stupid, and seeing two people liking that post shows the ultras are reading more and more CIA propaganda each day.
No.494846
>>494737>I say this as the President of a great power Zelensky, you okay? I guess you've eaten the wrong kind of shrooms…
No.494847
>>494844>>494845We can't do anything but laugh. King Lear claims to know lots of subjects but behave more like Eugenics Kun.
No.494848
>>494741Plot twist: they are all secondhand
No.494849
>>494829>>494825Cope harder fake marxist
I bet your fetched resources are mainstream
No.494850
Arguments about who to "support" on an anonymous imageboard is such a meaningless waste of time and makes these threads unreadable. Post some actual information instead.
No.494851
>>494848By definition they are second hand since the balts got there weapons from the US. Maybe even third hand if they're from germany.
No.494852
>>494850There’s no information to report because this is a fizzle, not a sizzle
Happeningoids seethe
No.494853
>>494850What do you mean my written explicit support in my Albanian organ harvesting imageboard is meaningless??
No.494854
>>494849Worst, from ultras inside Russia.
No.494855
TBH i don't think the Russians will go in if the Ukrainian army strikes donbass. Given Russia's recent track record in Armenia and Syria they may give some material and Air support, but beyond that they won't do much. If Crimea is attacked they may fight but if the donbass falls, all they'll do is give the people there refuge in Crimea or Russia proper. Too much for the oligarchs to loose by getting fully involved.
No.494856
US, Russia to Try More Diplomacy Amid Tensions Over Ukrainehttps://apnews.com/f7a3da26cb574ce4beaf5616573f16c0>Top U.S. and Russian diplomats agreed to keep talking in the standoff over Ukraine, even though their meeting produced no movement in the crisis that has seen Moscow mass tens of thousands of troops at the border and the West ramp up supplies of weapons to Kyiv.U.S. Will Reply to Russian Demands as Military Buildups Continue Around Ukrainehttps://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/01/21/world/russia-us-ukraineAfter meeting in Geneva, the top U.S. and Russian diplomats signaled that talks would continue, even as Russia deploys more troops near Ukraine and the U.S. approves new arms for Kyiv.
NATO members scramble to support Ukraine amid Russian threathttps://news.yahoo.com/nato-members-scramble-support-ukraine-234525855.html>The threat of a Russian invasion of Ukraine has sent NATO countries scrambling to provide military support to Kyiv. In recent weeks, Spain, France, Estonia, the United Kingdom and the U.S. among others have provided varying kinds of military support to Ukraine in anticipation of Russian aggression. No.494857
>>494856Tbh if anything makes me think it will be a nothingburger, its the fact that Russia didn't invade a week ago already. I doubt that what they are deploying now wouldn't be outweighed by Ukraine scrambling to prepare for war. Hence the more time passes, the more it looks like a circus Putin made to fuck with the west, or some sort of diplomatic gamble that Ukraine would be talked into by rest of NATO to give up Donbas/Donetsk as a measure to prevent war.
No.494859
>>494815Defeat on the world stage is a great catalyst for political change, if you are a westerner, you would want NATO to be humiliated, if you are Russian, the other way around.
No.494860
>>494816yet he ends up funding azov's projects and integrated them into the national guard. curious.
No.494861
>>494859Correct take, end thread.
No.494866
>>494864Hrrrm so either the burgers are planning to stage an incident to provoke a war, the local literal Nazi's are planning to stage an incident and the burgers know, or the burgers have no clue what is going on and are running around like headless chickens
No.494867
>>494859And if you are a human being and not an insane hyperonline schizophreniac ideologue you wish for this shit to end without blood being spilled for a pointless intra-imperialist war.
No.494868
>>494867true but, you forget 2 things
A) we are all dirty peasants, so it's not like our wishes have any sort of real influence
B) we are on an anonymous Ecuadorian Spearfishing Forum, so liven up
No.494871
I a while ago gave a read to Eduard Limonov's book ('The Other Russia') Which he wrote while in prison for participating in an Anti-Putin riot. So i suppose that more or less makes it the 'Mein Kampf' of National-Bolshevism.
Some of the things i explicitly remember include.
>He starts off by saying that he detests the nuclear family and formal education, Basically says he wants all kids in creches operating under like Theosophy school rules where they just get to pick what they want to learn, and beat the shit out of each other all day.
>An entire chapter talking about how much he hates particularly old women.
>A chapter where he talks about how 'honestly' Russian 'culture' is basically just 'Germany+Turkey'
>He wants to do a Lebensborn program in Russia, but not in the way you expect [Women naked in the kitchen], He want's to fully legalise polygamy and atypical relationships and have everyone just be in Poly relationships with each other constantly.
>He calls the Nazis, Blackshirts and Bosheviks 'Equally Beautiful' and that they were basically all the same lmao NazBol GANG!
>Says Young people are the 'actual most oppressed class' and 'age wars' are the engine of history.
>Applauds Mao for the cultural-revolution and simultaneously Mai 68' in France.
>Calls for Russia to become a Confederation/Anarchic state called 'Eurasia' with local militias and wide ethnic autonomy which will help end 'Putinist fascism'
>Claims Ru…Eurasia will master fifth-generation warfare and will convince neighbouring countries to join them 'relatively peacefully' 'MAKING THEM DECIMATE THEMSELVES WITH THEIR OWN FACTS AND LOGIC.' Until they own either the entire Eurasian land-mass or maybe the world.
No.494873
>>494825tripfags are by definition anti-communists
No.494876
>>494825To this very day Blacked Marxist has not brought a single argument to the table, only hysterical strawmen and needless belligerence torwards anyone interested in the conflict. Glows like the sun.
Remember that when there was the US presidential election some random tripfags popped up reminding us to vote for Biden under the guise to "trigger /pol/yps" and then they disappeared again? Same here since the Ukraine shit started.
No.494877
>>494867Yeah Lenin was famous for saying ,"muh no bloodshed, plz weezy no fighting"
And not "turn the guns inward"
No.494878
>>494871slav nazis are the schizoest nazis
No.494879
>>494871Didn't he suck cocks when he was a homeless junkie?
No.494881
Dekulakization reloaded
No.494883
>>494876This. Active here since trump announced his run and I remember this exactly. As soon as trump won, most of them disappeared. I have never seen dark marxist post in this board before this week. Might be a king lear samefag, same writing style.
I remember lear got bullied so hard that he stopped posting for half a year. I haven't seen him post for that long and now he pops up in the ukraine conflict thread.
No.494884
>>494877>Turn the guns inwardThis implies that the nation is already at fucking war or at the very least stomping out resistance to its empire. You are almost in the same camp as the pre-WW1 era socialist schizoids who thought war would be based because proles would see how bad it is and frag their officer corps and start a soldiers revolution. And yes, of course, if the bloody, pointless war is happening and wasn't stopped, best you can do is turn the guns inwards.
No.494885
>>494884>You are almost in the same camp as the pre-WW1 era socialist schizoids who thought war would be based because proles would see how bad it is and frag their officer corps and start a soldiers revolution. What was the result of ww1?
Remind me
Remind me also what the result of ww2 was? How far did the red flag fly by 1949?
No.494886
>>494882why the fuck does maupin and his wacky guests always look so funny together
No.494887
>>494867The bloodshed of ww1 created to Soviet Union and the same for ww2 with China. More!
>>494875>lethal aidJust call them arm shipment you fucking limp wristed pussies.
No.494888
>>494874What negative levels of sex do to a MFer
No.494889
>>494885>What was the result of WW1Complete and total breaking of the western working class
>What was the result of WW2Birth of the US empire
>How far did the red flag fly in 1949?Evidently not far enough, and deffinetly not as far as it could have if only the western working class hadn't been genocided on an industrial scale
October was a fuking fluke event that really only happaned because Lenin was there and managed to get through the bullshit of "liberal revolution first!" that most of the bolshevik leadership followed. USSR was basically set for failure and the only thing it could have hoped for is to wait out long enough before failing, which it didn't.
No.494890
>Oh, I know, I will justify memeing for the deaths of thousands, if not millions of proles and my support for an anti-communist porky oligarch that was the protege of the man that destroyed socialism in Russia by saying my favorite faggot mentally ill 4chan meme lines, such as “Le tripfags are not real communism!” “Le real communism is hoping I, a westerner, get the entertainment of watching proles die from thousands of miles away”, “Le ‘Lenin’ (the version that exists in my mind) supported inter-imperialist wars”, “Le capitalist Russia isn’t imperialist because they’re losing”, and many, many more!
You people genuinely deserve to die screaming, worthless overly online cynical scum
No.494891
>>494890Yes, they're right. And you're a pathetic moron for coming to this place and crying.
No.494893
>>494890>Calling anyone overly online when this is all you do every dayIt's not about deserve but you should be mercy killed.
No.494894
>>494891>>494893Whatever way you cope with your pathetic bloodlust, lowly western dog
Why don’t you sacrifice your own worthless lives if you want excitement so bad you fucking invertebrates
No.494896
>>494895I’m not the one hoping for a massive war that ends in the deaths of thousands if not millions of working class people fought between two capitalist factions all because I’m a mediocre piece of shit with a boring fucking life
No.494898
>>494897>Le meme reply to dance around the fact that I’m just some bloodthirsty self-loathing loon hoping I can watch other proles die to add excitement to my lifeYou people are fucking worms
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) No.494899
>>494894>>494896Imagine using that flag and complaining about a people being mean and joking about war.
It's literally a celebration of the person who started the Trojan War for the lulz and thinks human life is worthless.
No.494902
>>494890Agent Smith, we received new orders. Contact headquarters immediately.
No.494903
>>494898you really need to get tested for brain problems
I am not trying to be funny
No.494906
>>494890>t. Samefagging Ukrainian SimpKeep crying. I’m almost enjoying your anger.
No.494907
>>494899>Meme cope to not counter someone pointing out my vulgar Le Great Russian chauvinismYawn
>>494903Short but still didn’t read
>>494902>Le glowie to anyone that calls me outYou literally want proles to die in an inter-imperialist war while pretending to be a communist, fuck off
>>494906>Ukrainian simpLefty/pol/acks are utterly pathetic
No.494908
>>494907>Great Russian chauvinismimagine being this desperate a shill
No.494909
>>494907Stop derailing the thread you pathetic baby.
No.494911
>>494907you are here every day raging in the exact same manner repeating the same thing over and over and over, it is easy to see from afar you at the very least have developmental problems
No.494912
>>494907>posti-left anti-marxist chaos flag>WAHH PEOPLE ARE MEANwhat did they mean by this?
are you ok?
No.494913
>>494889>Complete and total breaking of the western working classCope
The Russian revolution and a class consciousness so hardcore that even reactionaries in Labour party in Britain were forced to put in clause 4
>Birth of the US empireCope
Communism spreading across 1/4 of the globe and the downfall of formal colonialism with all the European empires falling
>Evidently not far enough, and deffinetly not as far as it could have if only the western working class hadn't been genocided on an industrial scaleLenin famously stated that either revolution will prevent a worldwar or war will produce revolution.
The former has literally never happened
>October was a fuking fluke event Lmao more cope from a faggot
>that really only happaned because Lenin was there Sure. Great man theory. You're such a great marxist
Go read this on the role of the indivdual in history
https://www.marxists.org/archive/plekhanov/1898/xx/individual.html>he bullshit of "liberal revolution first!" that most of the bolshevik leadership followed.The history understander logged on
That's literally what happened. The first revolution in February was a lib revolution
>USSR was basically set for failure The USSR changed the face of the entire planet and existed for 70 years
Without the USSR nazis would've won ww2 and the post ww2 period would not be defined by national liberation movements breaking out everywhere but the terms would be set by the British empire/nazi germay and fascist italy
Formal colonies would probably still exist were it not for the USSR (let alone the communist revolutions and advance of socialism worldwide)
No.494914
>Meme arguments
<Literal 4chan meme arguments centering on “Le namefag” “Le flagfag”
>Wahhh why don’t you use a new argument? Why are you here everyday?
Threat of war has been here for this entire week, you Putinfags have been making the same arguments everyday and are worthy of the same replies, King Lear is a schizo but the most rational in this thread, half of you are teenagers braying for blood
No.494915
>>494914you are too scared to reply lol
No.494916
>>494910I mean, that config data is technically sound and plausible but by no means strong evidence. Like, easily could be real or fake.
>>494907go back
No.494917
I don't know man. I don't like the Ukrainian government but Russia is a reactionary state. So I guess I don't support neither. I hope conflict doesn't break out.
No.494920
Maybe it's just as simple as Biden trying to start a war to distract from how much of a shitshow the country is right now.
No.494921
>>494918>Intentional derailingYou mean telling you you’re wrong?
>SpammingYou mean telling you you’re wrong?
You people really are cowards
No.494922
Massive cyber attack on Ukraine
https://archive.ph/iUW4J No.494924
>>494923David vs. Goliath, except David has an even bigger Goliath behind him
No.494925
>>494924So it's like goliath is an asshole invader but so is david's god. I guess the bible was profound.
No.494926
>>494921What are you talking about? We've never talked before, I've just seen you spamming up 3 different threads with personal drama and am getting bored of it. Go to some other website if you hate here so much, it seems like you're torturing yourself.
No.494928
>>494926Seeing so-called communists back an anti-communist state (that was formed by the people that dismantled the USSR mind you) that’s fighting over spheres of influence with an opposing capitalist bloc is indeed torturous, yes
>3 threadsPertaining to this specific topic
>PersonalNothing occurring in Ukraine is personal to me but the reaction from leftypolers is personally disgusting to me
No.494929
>>494928>personally disgusting to meyou need to log off
No.494930
>Dozens of new posts every time i refresh
<All of them are retards fighting
Please stop.
No.494931
>>494928>the reaction from leftypolers is personally disgusting to megood
No.494933
>>494932It would be like trying to empty the ocean with a bucket. The problem is the mentality of many anons.
Too much petty infighting like high school bitches and too few actual information.
Sometimes it gets unbearable.
No.494934
>>494928Would you say you are butt imperialized?
No.494935
>>494933Well, is there much happening in the thread topic to discuss? I feel it's a side effect of a lolcow dropping spaghetti and nothing else going on worth talking about.
>The problem is the mentality of many anons.It is, I'll agree. The general awareness of users on this site isn't great.
No.494937
Next split happening over this conflic
No.494938
>>494935>general awareness 90% of you are idiots but 90% of everyone are idiots
No.494940
Critical support for Ukrainian oligarchy.
No.494941
>>494927Putinoids are worse than dengoids with their cope.
No.494942
>>494940are they divided between pro-west and pro-russian camps or are the remaining ones just nato stooges?
No.494943
>>494913>USSR created global class conciousnessMore like USSRs existance made capitalist states use more carrots and less sticks to keep working class down, which they succeeded in doing, so unless temporary socdem reformism seeming viable is a success for you, no USSR didn't raise class conciousness in a meaningful way. Also it fucking destroyed international left solidarity through the purges and the Molotov-Ribentrop pact. That is not to say the purges were uneeded or that the pact was a mistake, but that in the end of the day it segmented needlessly global left between sycophantically pro-soviet and anti-soviet liberal sides.
>Europe empires fall, ye olden colonialism endsAnd? European empires didn't really fall, just get fully absorbed into the US empire, just as their colonies. Yes, of course end of the more direct colonialism is important, however it does fuck all to hurt imperialism, especially such as the global empire of US that can just achieve all it needed through compadore regimes.
>The former didn't happenAnd the later happened once, in a state that was already bursting for a revolution of one sort or another since 1900 and not at all on a global scale how Lenin had hoped. Also how the fuck is Chinese revolution caused by WW2? It was already in a state of semi-civil war for decades.
>Great man theoryGMT would mean that Lenin single handedly steered the course of history to a Soviet Union. To deny that at periods of hightened conflict the actions of individuals become more important is idiotic. Bolsheviks were just one of many contenders for what would be the claim of the collapsing Czarist and later the collapsing Liberal Cadet regime. And before Lenin showed up, the Bolshevik leadership was determined to sit on their ass because the liberal revolution of Kerensky hadn't yet taken its necessary course. No Lenin means no Bolsheviks contending in the civil war, or at best only contending as an insignificant force that would take over a few core cities and then get squashed like the Patis Commune.
>Nazies would have wonBeyond the scope of the argument. We are talking if WW1 was "good" for historic progress or not.
No.494945
>>494944It literally did nothing except harm it you red fascist
No.494946
One of my new favorite euphemisms is "lethal aid" to describe weapons being shipped to Ukraine. It's like "fatal help."
No.494947
>Great Man Theory
i don't get why this is such a big no no, saying that "great men" have steered and will steer events should be pretty uncontroversial
No.494948
>>494946My honor, the charge against my client that he killed 12 orphans is deeply biased. He merely offered his helping hand to them in a fatal manner.
No.494949
>>494943>no USSR didn't raise class conciousness in a meaningful way. Lmao, what happened when it disappeared?
Capitalists pulled their gloves off globally and dismantled the workers gains after ww2 everywhere
>Also it fucking destroyed international left solidarity through the purges Purges were needed and those killed were a load of retarded faggots that didn't believe USSR could win a world war so somehow surrendering to Germans and in the hopes of retaining a rump Soviet state was somehow the correct line to stand on
Those people's may have called themselves "communist" but in truth were defeatist faggots that deserved shooting or a 5 or 10 year stint in gulag
>and the Molotov-Ribentrop pact. Mol-rib pact was fucking based. It forced the faggot UK into the war (note how they declared war on Germany 1 week after mol-rib)
UK wanted to sit on the sideline and most of the government (and the King of England) wanted to go in on side of Nazis
Soviet diplomacy secured
-UK into war against Germany buying time for USSR(which was Nazi leaning)
-forced Germany into a two front war (yet again lul)
-secured ussr 2 years to build up army and military
No.494952
>>494951I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say.
No.494954
Russia and Belarus have decided to end the Nazi state of Ukraine
Military equipment is now going into Brest
Putin has decided to cut Ukraine south from Brest all the way down to Moldava
https://medium.com/dfrlab/russian-military-equipment-spotted-in-belarus-as-tensions-heighten-with-ukraine-e80475954175Godspeed to the Russian army, may God protect the innocent Ukrainians and the UkroNazi collaborators get what they deserve
No.494955
>>494954Yea but is it actually invading or not?
No.494956
>>494954Cuckranians just gonna let them pass through their territory like that?
No.494957
>>494955>>494956Of course not, to both questions.
Sabre-rattling
nothingburger
No.494958
>>494957How can you be so sure tho?
It seems like they're gonna be launching a general offensive any second now.
No.494959
>>494866Going by Kabul it's the last one.
No.494960
Here's my prediction
>Russia, Belarus attacks Ukraine next Monday
>approximately 500,000 Ukranians dead in the first week
>BaldAndBankrupt will go to the front to cover the events for his youtube channel and he'll be killed
I'll be so sorry for him.
No.494961
>>494958It has seemed like they are gonna be launching a general offensive for like the last week and a half.
I dont know what game they are playing but i do know it would be absolutely insane to invade ukraine
No.494962
>>494958Last year in spring was the same sabre-rattling.
Predictions are pointless. I don't believe there will be war until I see dead Cuckrainians en masse.
No.494964
>>494962>Last year in spring was the same sabre-rattling.Not to this level.
No.494965
>>494963he had good intentions, but you can't erase and reinstall a 40 something years old anglo brain
No.494966
>>494960>BaldAndBankrupt>I'll be so sorry for him.I looked him up and his newest video starts perpetuating the omnipotent Stalin myth and reeks of anti-communist propganda.
Since he gets so many views, I would not shed a single tear of sadness if he died somehow in the (not coming) conflict. In fact, I'd be happy that another Western scumbag would be silenced
No.494967
>>494966his Cuba coverage is the worst
No.494968
>>494966Half of his channel basically revolves around him roaming the former soviet union going "Wow! hey guys this is where the KGB directed the oppression and surveillance of all soviet people and killed them. I am so happy they were able to be freed from that oppressive regime." and then he had a whole controversy about buying a bunch of prostitutes or something lol
No.494970
>>494888If you mean negative levels of sex with women in particular, then yes.
No.494971
Nothing is going to happen. Vlasovites and Banderaites aren't going to war.
No.494972
>>494730That's an anti-communist falsification.
No.494973
>>494884>proles would see how bad it is and frag their officer corps and start a soldiers revolutionThat did happen in Russia, Hungary, Germany, and nearly happened in France (mutinies in 1917).
No.494974
>>494973>That did happen in Russia, Hungary, GermanyAnd reminder that this gave us 2 revolutions, one of them successful.
No.494975
>>494974Hungary was also successful for a time.
No.494976
Yall need to touch grass; war isn't going to happen and you all just read too much propaganda, both western and russian. literally nothing will happen
No.494977
>>494976This, MSNBC watchers and Grayzone twitter followers btfo.
No.494979
>>494976yeah, dude
Russo-Georgian War will never happen.
No.494981
If digits this is a nothingburger.
If dubs limited conflict.
If trips we could start to talk about something.
No.494982
>>494981Rollin for an actual all out
thread.
No.494984
>>494983Step 1: Provoke Nazis into mobilizing
Step 2: Construct casus belli
Step 3: Destroy Nazis
No.494985
>>494976I think the general consensus here is that nothing will happen, I do agree on that.
Europe loses too much. Ukraine loses too much. Russia does not lose too much, but their ruling class may want to push a regime change (which is highly likely what the west is trying to pursue. i.ex. see Russia stock market index, despite they haven't stop to export oil and gas and the prices are higher than ever their stock market has declined significantly).
No.494986
>>494976nothing ever happens
fukuyama was right
No.494987
>>494976I think you are right. But you also have to acknowledge that sometime these situations spiral out of the control of the parties involved.
No.494989
>>494976Is Russia shitting on some US-armed Ukrainian militias "war?" This might not happen either but there is 0% chance of ww3
No.494990
>The UK foreign office said in a Saturday statement it has information that the Russian government is planning to "install a pro-Russian leader in Kyiv as it considers whether to invade and occupy Ukraine."
No.494992
Well, apparently Scholz decided not to meet with Blinken.
This is a cold water bucket to the face of the U.S. warmongers and other anti-Russian states (Lethonia, Lithuania, etc)
No.494994
So Russia just moved 100k troops to the Western border and that's indication that it's preparing to attack. What if it just keeps the 100k troops stationed there near the border indefinitely?
No.494995
>>494988>>494983Oh Fuck Yes.
DOIT.
No.494996
>>494994The US increases the official Pentagon budget to $1.3 trillion despite 0 intention of defending Ukraine with US troops
No.494997
>>494983>start WW3 Could you fucking not?
No.495000
There won't be a war. You all just paranoid. Things won't escalate. Don't be blind by both porkies either burgers or Russians.
No.495002
>>494999The U.S. does have more than those numbers. Also, don't forget the NATO.
No.495003
>>495002Biden said if Russia invades he will turn off SWIFT and do sanctions. But he didn't say he will defend Ukraine militarily and go to war with Russia in response.
No.495004
You don't invade without the element of surprise
No.495005
>>495004This is why if anything does happen it won't be right now when the entire world is soyfacing over this shit. It could happen during the Ukrainian independence day or maybe during some Orthodox holidays, who knows
No.495006
>>495003My comment isn't denying nor affirming the U.S. would go to war, and whatever the U.S. say is weird, because they never commit to their word. I pointed out those ships there have less meaningful support to say there won't be a war.
Also, Russia is not like Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, that cannot sink in a blink a floating island. Those kind of ships are use to bully small countries, not to start a war agaisnt a superpower.
No.495007
From an imperialist perspective there is nothing of Value in Ukraine that is useful for taking. No resources or wealth just an impoverished population that will hate you. The buffer argument doesn't hold water with modern weapons systems either that take minutes to reach targets acorss an entire continent.
No.495009
>>495007I am not a military general but if Ukraine was part of NATO, right on Russia's borders, I think that would change things for Russia
No.495010
>>495000>>>495007>The buffer argument doesn't hold water with modern weapons systems either that take minutes to reach targets acorss an entire continent.Techbro moment.
You still need ground troops to win wars.
No.495011
>>495009Russia would have to invest military infrastructure to weigh the balance of power in some other countries, like Cuba, closing the time of response around the same with Moscow-Ukraine with Havana-Florida.
No.495012
>>495005My thoughts are that it happens during the Olympics next month, like the Russo-Georgian war did. While many people's eyes are glued to and distracted by the Olympics that would be the perfect time to strike. After all, too much publicity can be bad sometimes.
No.495013
If Russia is planning an invasion, what are they waiting for? Seems like their military has just been sitting there for awhile waiting for the go-ahead. The longer they wait the more weapons are shipped into Ukraine from western countries. Are they waiting a few weeks for temperatures to warm up or something?
No.495014
>>495012I remember last month reading that Russia was going to invade around Christmas time since a lot of people wouldn’t be paying attention to the news around the holidays. Nothing happened.
No.495015
>>494792>>494811>>494812>>494815russia will crush ukraine, allowing commies to take power there
No.495016
>>494945you have to go back
No.495017
>>495015this is what putinist actually believe
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