No.22153
99% of the programming projects I see on github, reddit, HN, etc. are just programming tools for other programmers. "I made a data-processing library for the ButtFuck framework" "I made a fancy-pants syntax highlighter for Fartlang in vim" "I made a utility that tells you if your config file is blah blah blah" 10 billion stars on github with a bunch of badges and emojis of course. All this effort put into programmer tools and for what? So they can make more programming tools, I suppose?
The gods of programming have blessed mankind with the means of producing the most complex, ornate, beautiful machines they can dream of as a single individual without needing to worry about material or labor costs, safety or regulatory concerns, etc. and all programmers can imagine is "what if I made my shell a bit prettier." What a waste.
P.S. This is just me ranting, I know some people do make cool things, you're gonna have to just let me cook on this one
No.22154
>All this effort put into programmer tools and for what? So they can make more programming tools, I suppose?
It's obviously to artificially inflate their portfolio so they can put it in their resume.
No.22155
>>22154>So they can make more programming tools, I suppose?yes, actually
>machinesI prefer to call them physical programming tools
however, I do agree with the underlying premise implicit in your post
No.22156
>>22153no shit people respond to material incentive. Programmers are either gonna make what they're paid to do, or make what makes their lives easier - tooling for their use, and so mostly programming tools. Various programmers with other hobbies do make tools for those too. Even if half of open source is programmer tooling, the other half is tools for those others things programmers do.
No.22157
the problem is that making anything new and interesting is already difficult, and if you're doing it entirely as just open source software in your spare time, you either need to have an inhuman level of focus and motivation and skill, or you need to be an extremely autistic NEET. freetards don't talk about this but the majority of free software doesn't produce anything that is particularly interesting. even in the best of cases with something like NixOS/Guix, you have a project that has sophisticated engineering behind it and obviously is quite an accomplishment in terms of how much work has gone into it, but ultimately it still solves problems that are created by the tools programmers have made for themselves. in that example it's because of the state of linux and a lot of programming language packaging being such a complete mess that it creates new problems of having to package thousands of transitive dependencies all pinned to different versions and strewn across random places in the linux filesystem all using different configuration formats. you end up needing to create a fancy purely functional package manager to accommodate this madness. meanwhile, anyone who wants to work on solving interesting problems will probably have to do it entirely on their own, >for free, in their spare time.
t. person who has consistently failed to make any progress with some somewhat ambitious programming ideas and eventually just gave up altogether
No.22158
>>22153Computers are complex. Stuff is useful. Why does it matter?
>>22157There is no meaningful difference between the amount of "interesting stuff" coming out off of FOSS spaces and those coming out of commercial shops in general
No.22159
>>22158oh I don't disagree at all, in fact the tech industry is a huge part of the problem
No.22160
>>22158>Computers are complex. Stuff is useful. Why does it matter?Because of the wasted potential. Imagine if the scribes of ancient civilizations decided that the only use for written language was bean-counting and drafting laws, and they then steered the art of written language toward "best practices for drafting receipts of purchase" and "10 handy tools for keeping your clay ovens tidy". This is basically the mindset of your average codetard circa 2023
No.22161
>>22160so when are you going to program something useful?
No.22162
>>22161Utility Considered Harmful
No.22163
>>22160As if everything that has been written throughout humanity has been useful, lmao.
No.22164
Those sites are frequented by people who are interested in programming, of course programming related projects are the most popular, it's the "greatest common denominator" among the users. Computers and programming are really complex and interesting in themselves, it's not a bad or shallow topic. If you look, you can find other interesting stuff, like weather prediction, ocean current simulations, medical imaging, and so on and so on, but these are obviously less popular as fewer people are interested in them and even fewer actually understand them.
No.22168
>>22160I see your point. I suppose it's a symptom of most programmers nowadays being churned out of specific academic programs that encourage this cliche business thinking, as opposed to syncretic mathematicians and weirdo hobbyists, if you don't mind me going all "ye olden days".
No.22169
>>22168he doesn't have a point, what the fuck are you talking about. he is a dumbass complaining about programmers making their jobs easier
No.22171
>>22170its just another frogposter thread, who cares
No.22172
oh noooooo llms will "replace me" im so mad i use gpt-4 to help my job and go outside with my free time and still get paid
No.22173
>>22170It's true, I wish I could write something cool but I am incompetent and never have any good ideas.
No.22178
>>22176
>FTFY.
this doesnt work when im already doing what i just typed
No.22179
>>22170Happy to see a pic of Postone on leftypol.org, but there was no need to be so smug tbh.
>>22172>my boss will use GPT-X to deskill my job and I will have less free time and get paid less because my job will be reduced to reviewing code generated by AI that mostly work.FTFY.
I never tried it but I'm skeptical so far of the capabilities of LLMs to generate code that would easily fit in most CRUD apps I've worked on.
It can provide good templates for functions and classes, but I don't think it can adapt code easily when tight deadlines are incoming and the whole data chain involves different teams and companies, and if you add old proprietary software into the mix, I don't see them replacing a competent junior dev who can adapt to different technologies for an already existing infrastructure, at least not for a little while.
>>22153It is the case because it's easier to hack on an free software toolchain to create something that makes your life easier as a programmer and/or is interesting on a technical level, like in Emacs for example where you can change the behavior of the editor dynamically by evaluating Lisp code, rather than coding and
maintaining an heavyweight cross-platform GUI C++ app with Qt without some free time away from labor and a steady flow of money, even if it's a kickass project idea like a "【ｖⓐｐØｒｗⓐｖ€ 】蒸汽軟件 3D/video/audio editing app accessible to everyone".
No.22181
>>22178It's a cool trick as a worker if you do it right and can still code your way out of a mess when it's needed, but since more and more workers like you use AI generated code, managers and shareholders are also thinking of replacing workers with AI to save money and prop up profits.
If they fall for the meme soon, I'm expecting some epic fails and good old schadenfreude but I'm also afraid we will eventually have to review AI generated pieces of code and cobble something together like Amazon's Mechanical Turk in the future for minimum wage, and I hope by then I will get a generous dole if employers don't deem me as more worthy than that.
Tech companies are increasingly laying off, and like any sector who is not making as much profit as before, management often cut down on labor costs rather than capitalist parasitism.
No.22184
>>22182
just delete and re-post
No.24707
>>22160Thats what writing was invented for to begin with stupid faggot. To keep records of trade and production.
No.24708
>>22153I'm always surprised how much good shit programmers give away for free. What kind of programs do you think they don't make?
My issue is that these fuckers think making an installer is simple impossible. I think they do that just to filter normies.
No.24710
>>24708>making a zip extractor is hardNgmi
No.24711
>>24710Huh? Make an extractor?
No.24712
>>24708>making an installer is simple impossibleThere are like a thousand different package managers, we don't need another one.
No.24713
>>24712I'm not a computer dork so I have no clue what you're talking about, but normal people want programs you click install and then you click run. I don't want to have to deal with any github command prompt nonsense.
No.24714
>>24713How fucking retarded must you be to think git cloning a repository with a few submodules is hard even? The bare minimum for installing software should force you to configure dependencies through YAML + Docker Compose and Makefile scripts, and manual intervention for environment variables and cryptographic key generation before compilation and deployment. If you can't even do bare minimum such as this then you should be banned from ever touching a keyboard again.
No.24715
>>24713GNU/Linux people have made a thousand different ways to install software. They do make installers. If you happen upon something that cannot be easily installed on GNU/Linux, it's usually either because the software is not mature enough or that nobody cared enough about it to do it yet.
>>24714Please don't post here anymore.
No.24716
>>24715>Please don't post here anymore.Moron you must be an apple user
No.24723
>>24716Nah I just actually want Free Software to succeed, gatekeeping helps no one. Plus I hate Docker and avoided using it so far and plan on avoiding it for the rest of my life. If you need tight control of versions, use Guix.
No.24725
>>22170boilerplate code copy-pasted into a useful program will always trump perfect code thrown into a tool that helps nobody. programming is a means and not an end.
(most code is boilerplate in a tool that helps nobody, but that's an aside.)
>>24713the best programs are those that you just click run without even having to install, but if you're getting at cunts who don't upload an executable ("uhh just compile it yourself lol") then yeah, they should be thrown down the Darvaza crater.
No.24726
>>24725>the best programs are those that you just click run without even having to install, Yeah of course. But maybe it has to install multiple pieces of software.
> but if you're getting at cunts who don't upload an executable ("uhh just compile it yourself lol") then yeah, they should be thrown down the Darvaza crater.Yeah that kind of stuff.
No.24727
>>24725There's no way I am downloading some executable uploaded by some random guy. Use your distro's package manager of flatpak.
No.24732
>>22153I'm not linking my clearnet codeshit stuff in a extremist image board lol
No.24734
>>24732Link other people's cool shit?
I have nothing to do with this one other than using it and admiring the code
https://armedbear.common-lisp.dev/ No.24735
>>24734What are we just linking free software we like? I don't use Linux because I have sex but this is an amazing program for people who constantly fill hard drives through compulsive dling like me. Probably a Linux equivalent out there.
It's so you can get file sizes on folders the same way you can on files. Really helps to narrow down where some gig killing files you forgot about are hidden.
No.24736
>>24735Oops even though the name is in the pic.
https://windirstat.net/ No.24746
just delete and re-post
No.24755
>>24746Keep in mind that you are talking to a Windows user.
No.24758
>>24746>>24755Why? Or I might clog up the thread with 1 extra reply and 2 now 3 meta posts talking about it?
No.24760
It's obviously to artificially inflate their portfolio so they can put it in their resume.
No.24764
>>24708I know GOG makes graphical installers for Linux using a shell script
I think Linux is simply just a server oriented dev community first and foremost
Most people interested in making desktop applications focus on Windows as well
That's The Way It Is™© thanks to capitalist market fuckery and the weird virgin bro-ification of the FOSS community
No.24765
>>24764I don't get it. Most, if not all, distros have graphical interfaces to their package managers. You can install software from there. There's Flatpak and Snap for those who want stuff that couldn't make it into the distro's repositories. What exactly is missing? How is it worse than Windows?
No.24767
>>24766s/there workers/these workers/
No.24768
>>24766the primary beneficiaries of FOSS tools have, by huge margins, been capitalist enterprises. if this is computer communism then i am not a communist.
No.24770
>>24768yeah
true communists support american closed source software with $100 a month licenses that need to be online 24/7 and has zionist backdoors built-in
No.24771
>>24766>picjust create button group and make button executable by it and add user to button group
No.24772
>>24771>allowing any user in the button group to click any button>not adding a policy for the current user permitting specifically this button clickdo you even SELinux?
No.24773
>>24770false dichotomy of a retard.
there are no true communists. everyone here is a worthless posturing fraud. the slightly less worthless, however, use their computer to
do something by hook or by crook. if the best tool for the job is proprietary, the solution is the best p-word in the english language: piracy.
No.24775
>>24768yeah, some corps literally do be outsourcing maintenance to fossuckers. i see the development model itself more as a technological advancement. even if the linux foundation was purely an industry consortium run by big tech, many of the benefits would remain.
urging the developers to adopt freedesktop shitware like kdbus is the most a single participant can accomplish. even if it was merged, it would have been an optional component. enforcing any policy decisions runs counter to the way linux is used by the industry i.e. by the embedded niche.
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