/anime/ - Anime

thankfully I have mostly avoided the culture war surrounding futa cocks. The one heated discussion that springs to mind I saw is whether or not futas needed balls to count as a futa. Also, one of my favorite jp artists that dabbles in futa 38my is a massive shit-heel TERF so maybe it's just a shit fandom from the ground up

i remember people being purists about balls vs pussy (or balls + pussy) back in like 2010, it's not a new debate at least

I didn't want to reply to this because it's such a bait but letting rubbish this blatant go unchallenged is a slippery slope.
As a preface; this entire OP reeks of manufactured twitter drama and literal copy-pasta. Nobody with a life cares about this outside of niche boards on various grass-cutting forums. It's the same sort of retarded whining that led to e621 replacing all intersex related tags with "gynomorph" because it was supposedly less offensive, only for it to sound far more vulgar and detached than the older terminology while simultaneously fucking up image tagging.

>How/why did rightoids politicize futanari pornography?
They didn't, this is Rent Free delusion.
>These chinlets have politicized the word futa, to make it basically mean "biological woman with penis"
<chinlets chinlets chinlets, rightoids rightoids rightoids, 4chan 4chan 4chan
You're an obsessed newfag. This is not politicized, that's just the definition of it. I even looked up various Japanese sources on the subject.
>日本では古来、半陰陽という二極に分類できない第三の性という概念で「ふたなり」の語が使用されてきた。平安時代後期に描かれた『病草紙』には「二形（ふたなり）の男」という題で男性の占い師が半陰陽だったという話が載っている。半陰陽の形態としてのそれは両方の性器を持った存在を表すものであり、狭義には卵巣を持ち、外性器が男性形である女性半陰陽を指すことが多い。
Translated
>In Japan , the word ``futanari has been used since ancient times to refer to the third gender, which cannot be categorized into the two polarities of hermaphrodite . The book ``Ikusoshi written in the late Heian period contains a story titled ``Futanari Man'' about a male fortune teller who was a hermaphrodite. As a form of hermaphroditism, it refers to a being with both genitalia, and in a narrow sense it often refers to a female hermaphrodite who has ovaries and whose external genitalia are male.

>It's hard to explain if you're not terminally online enough
In other words this is a meaningless blog-post bitching about a subject that doesn't matter to anyone other than porn addicts pretending to find deeper meaning when it boils down to aesthetic taste and preference.
>futanari fandoms have been steadily hijacked by chinlets seething over artists drawing chicks with dicks but no puss and calling it futa
<baiting with a concern-trolling 'muh rightoid' boogieman to gain more sympathy for this retarded revival of an argument that has existed since before /d/ was created
Nobody seethes about that, some people prefer separation of that from full-package futanari when posting in threads, rarely if ever have I seen this outside of this. The term futanari is associated with having both genitalia because that is what the modern term has come to mean over several decades, to blame this on 4chan is disingenuous at best. Relative to humans it's a fictional concept within fictional works and is not representative of real-life biology or human conditions. Futanari is a fantasy and its meaning today fits exactly this criteria, no matter how much you may want to scream about "muh 4chin", this conception is the one accepted by the majority of futanari 'fans' regardless of if they're Japanese or Westerners. As the OP admits, only terminally online E-Dramawhores bring up this old-ass argument about niche porn.

>pretending to be woke
<implying being woke is good
Liberals get the wall too
>"reverse futa"
I've never heard this used and it barely came up in a browser search, androgyne or cuntboy are the terms used, the latter only in pornography.

>The current that seethes over anime & video game characters being transgender, non-binary, queer
Idpol bait. The problem people have is that characters are CHANGED from the original characterizations, often-times by translators rather than the original author, or by an author decades later while under pressure. Your assertion that "muh rightoids" hate trans dickgirls fails because there's several very popular characters that are CANONICALLY trans or are widely accepted as such including real hermaphrodites. Here's a list:
- Poison from Street Fighter: She is largely accepted to be trans, without bottom surgery being the popularly accepted image and nobody begrudges it.
- Sylvia from the Konosuba Movie: She is a chimera that canonically attached female parts to herself to become both male and female, is wildly popular, with many fans of the show disappointed she died in the end.
- Leechi from Monster Musume, a Leech-monstergirl who has both sets of genitalia as a biological hermaphrodite.
https://dailylifewithamonstergirl.fandom.com/wiki/Leechi
- Sadako from The Ring novels: Has Testicular Feminization Syndrome, spreads their 'curse', is very popular as a futanari
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadako_Yamamura?useskin=vector#Novel_series
- Elza from Interspecies Reviewer: Hyena girl - big clit penis, far from a true futanari, yet still popular
- Valentine from Skullgirls: trans nurse fighter similar to Poison
- Crimvael from Interspecies Reviewers: Explicitly shown to be male identifying intersex and is accepted as such by places like /d/
So on and so forth. /d/eviants and other futa-fags have never had a problem with trans characters, its simply that categorizations leads to terminology specifying types, thus the differentiation of dickgirl/shemale from herm/futa and how both are under the larger umbrella term of Intersex. Moreover people get annoyed when canonically non trans characters are made trans through deliberate mistranslation or retroactive changes, and generally whenever porn goes out of its way to explain a character is trans, it is usually for the sake of shoved in idpol.

>The futa politicization would perhaps be a trivial footnote in the greater culture war, if it didn't reach Japan, the source of futanari pornography
This is retarded on a number of levels
1) Japan is not THE source of futanari porn, just one source, there are just as many Westerners illustrating this stuff as Japanese ones.
2) Niche hermaphroditic characters and fantasies have existed in different cultures for millennia, from China, to Europe to the Americas.
3) "Le Culture War" is nothing more than a liberal/pol fantasy created by keyboard warriors on social media that has no relevance to 90% of people on or offline. By bringing it up, your demonstrate that you're a glowstick and don't belong on leftypol. Go Back

>Muh Yana's "Futanari, What's That?" is baaaaad and Historical Revisionism!
It's funny how you make all these wild and false accusations when it takes 10 seconds to look up what they ACTUALLY wrote.
https://hitomi.la/doujinshi/futanari--what-s-that---decensored--english-2552497.html#1
A popular Japanese doujin futa illustrator released a guide detailing different aspects of futanari from its etymological meaning as a word and social use as well as aspects including relating to trans. It does so politely and takes into account the wider and narrower definitions of the term and demonstrators no influence from so-called 'rightwing [westerners]', but because it doesn't agree with your idpol dogma, you attack it, because only the "right" Japanese media that agree with you have any weight, and any Japanese that disagree are just stoopid Westaboos!
>You can tell this author was influenced by Westerners by his usage of the word "dickgirl"
They almost do not use this word at all, except when discussing the Western usage of the term, just because they're from Japan does not mean they are necessarily ignorant as to foreign slang.
>he claims "dickgirl" means "chicks with dicks but no puss"
Funny but I don't recall that exact wording, but I do recall that the author repeats multiple times it is only a general guideline.
>"dickgirl", a word with absolutely zero presence in Japanese-language hentai slang, a word literally invented on 4chan's /d/ board
<An English word doesn't exist in Japanese language, who'd a thought!?
And no, the term dickgirl, like newhalf and shemale existed before even 4chan did.
>JAVs featuring self-named shemale actors being advertised as futa
<Wow, an incest porn… what do you mean they aren't family in real life?!
1) The author specifically states that it ''"isn't trying to establish correct… terminology for real, existing people" (Page 9)
2) It's called advertisement; JAVs labeled as futa also feature practical effects with real women having simulated penises of varying realism, yet they are neither real futanari nor trans.
So at best your point is a non-sequitur relative to Yana and only muddies the water.
>Muh Futaket
Just because a group permits shemale stuff to be included as part of the BROADER meaning for futanari, does not make this the rule, people still differentiate the different types and many have preferences for one type or another. For example Amanoja is well known for having MtF dickchicks and they don't call them futanari, they call them newhalfs or other more specific terms, futanari is only applied as a broader tag, using the broader HaniWari interpretation of it.
>the author claims futanari penises are more "feminine"
Another deliberate, out of context misquotation. The only part remotely mentioning that is discussing illustrative detail regarding female/male dimorphism in physical characteristics and how that could be applied to a penis on Page 34.
To summarize, there is no "Historical Revisionism" as you attempt to dramatize. Stop making shit up.

>The struggle is clearly not about what the word "futa" means or doesn't.
Yet you still kept bitching about it.
>It's about exclusion, specifically the exclusion of trans people.
As opposed to the exclusion of what? Purple Hermaphrodite Martians from the future? Stop pretending to sound grandiose, it only reveals you for the pseud that you are. As for exclusion, as demonstrated both in my section discussing popular trans characters, this is a lie. People are not excluding them, it's simply a categorization of porn among its consumers, some people just want a woman that just happens to also have something extra, rather than what they understand to be a transitioned man, and even then nobody talks about it, except for 2-3 retards that occasionally start shitflinging and they're ignored or lambasted by everyone else.
>"It's not a futa if there's no pussy" is code for "it's not a woman if there's no pussy"
There is no code, you schizo, its openly cut and dry; A woman: an adult female human - > Female: Pertaining to the sex that produces ova or bears young. People just want to see a fully functional woman because they're attracted to the female form and its meaning, while essentially projecting their fantasy through the penis as part of Super-Normal Stimulus. This isn't absolute but is one of the reasons.

TL;DR: Futanari has a widely accepted meaning and most people that aren't contrarians accept the social definitions of these characterizations, so if someone enjoys dickgirls and shemales rather than full-package, then there's nothing stopping them, and just because it's not labeled the way (You) want it to be, doesn't suddenly 'erase' its existence or that of trans representation or someshit. Your entire, trite text-wall blogpost is bogus and (OP) ought to be ashamed of reposting liberal propaganda. Just fap to your porn and stop beating dead horses to stir up false drama nobody should care about.

>>23824
Some of the "futas must have a vagina too, and related "futas don't have balls" is attempts at reinforcing norms of transgender and intersex exclusive conceptions of sex and gender classifications applied to futanari, which is dare I say a little silly. Some of it is based on what people see as "normal" and sometimes it is consciously a part of rightwing or transphobic ideological opinions and culture and virtue signaling/code switching or whatever. No one really forms opinions or their understanding of the world free from any political influence, but not everyone that insists such things is trying to promote a political agenda of some kind. It may just be their understanding that the definition of a futa is someone that has both a vagina and penis specifically, and female characters with only penises are another classification like "dickgirls" or something.
>>23826
see related: people that consume pornography of transgender women insisting on calling them "shemales" or "transhumanists" or "sissies" or whatever, and the common memes of >she and so on, sometimes specifically as a political statement
>>23827
yeah it's a debate probably older than the internet
>>23834
>They didn't
I mean yeah this is a thing lol
>This is not politicized, that's just the definition of it.
Definitions are oftentimes politicized, like in this case, just as the question of what is "just the definition of it"
>I even looked up various Japanese sources on the subject.
source?
>>It's hard to explain if you're not terminally online enough
>In other words this is a meaningless blog-post bitching about a subject that doesn't matter to anyone other than porn addicts pretending to find deeper meaning when it boils down to aesthetic taste and preference.
I think you are the one being unreasonable here even if this may be a niche enough topic that it might not deserve it's own thread in anime, which I would argue is a lot of them tbh. I mean you are just restating Anon's admission that the topic is a "terminally online" one, to be aggressively condescending without any seeming provocation, while at the same time involving yourself with this topic that you consider "doesn't matter to anyone other than porn addicts pretending to find deeper meaning when it boils down to aesthetic taste and preference "
>Nobody seethes about that
I think that is an exaggeration to the point of not addressing the point OP made
>>pretending to be woke
><implying being woke is good
>Liberals get the wall too
I don't think OP implied that "being woke is good" , and furthermore I see "woke" and "anti-woke" signifiers as a fake argument and distortion of 'organic' social justice politics into sort of a managed culture war thing that is intentionally non-conducive to being resolved or producing any useful results, instead only allowing the powers that be more control over the political discourse, while reinforcing both "social identity" based stratification of society not directly based in class, as well as the bourgeoisie's control of both morality as a value form, and essentially holding ransom both minorities and people that fancy themselves leftists, in order to control their behavior through fear and defensiveness and easier drive a wedge between sections of the proletariat and between the vanguard and proletariat acting as a class. howeveer that is a topic for another thread.
>Idpol bait. The problem people have is that characters are CHANGED from the original characterizations
This is the cause of some of the outrage but not all of it
>Your assertion that "muh rightoids" hate trans dickgirls fails because there's several very popular characters that are CANONICALLY trans or are widely accepted as such including real hermaphrodites.
Canonically trans or hermaphrodite characters are also the target of enmity from rightwing and transphobic or "antiwoke" political discourse. This includes people confusing these characters as having been made trans at a later date, under the auspice of "woke ideology" for example, or grievances with how these characters are treated, for example some trans characters in nintendo franchises being refereed to with female pronouns at a later date, or simply not wanting them to exist in their media at all regardless of canon or community acceptance
>There is no code, you schizo, its openly cut and dry; A woman: an adult female human - > Female: Pertaining to the sex that produces ova or bears young.
So are FTMs women? Are cis women that are born without ovaries not women?
>People just want to see a fully functional woman because they're attracted to the female form and its meaning, while essentially projecting their fantasy through the penis as part of Super-Normal Stimulus. This isn't absolute but is one of the reasons.
Some people prefer "futas" with vaginas and functional wombs,some prefer them with only a penis or only a penis testicles, but that doesn't mean that it is never treated as a political thing

>>23824
> futanari fandoms have been steadily hijacked by chinlets
Have they? As an avid fan of the genre I haven't really seen such a thing. At best some seeting regarding full-package futas, but that has been a thing as far as I can remember

>>23834
Addendum:
Another character I forgot to list was
- Bowsette (technically Rule 63, but a lot of futa art and fanon and its technically male-female transition)

>>23838
>yeah this is a thing
It really isn't. The number of people I've seen screeching about this could be counted on my fingers, and I've been on the internet for a long time. 90% of people indulging in futa and dickgirls and whatever just want to indulge in their porn and most arguments are whether or not bigger tops or not and how would it actually work as a realistic biological/magical concept. Anyone that brings in IRL politics into it is largely shunned by the majority because, like with media fandoms, bringing in real life politics into is nothing but cancer. Nobody is making concentrated efforts to change booru tags or browbeat people over "incorrect usage" of futanari as a term except in relatively obscure threads on relatively obscure sites, most people don't even know that futanari exists, let alone care about semantic arguments of cumbrains and coomers.
>Definitions are oftentimes politicized
<in this case
It isn't the OP is presenting it as such by asserting that "Only muh right-wing chinlet 4chan" claims this because they hate [insert token minority], because apparently the idea of separation of fiction from reality by adults is a concept alien to OP, as is people categorizing preferences.
>source?
I copied it from an online Japanese Encyclopedia after searching the Kanji for Futanari. Regardless my point stands, that's the common definition in Japan.
>you are just restating Anon's admission that the topic is a "terminally online" one
The self-admission of it being terminally online behavior is lost on OP - the very fact that only terminally online people would even be able to catch a HINT of this EDrama existing (and it doesn't unless you go searching for it on obscure sites and forums) - demonstrates how detached OP is from genuine real problems. I would be all fine for a discussion on etymology and meaning of the terms, or hell even a debate about what the word means, but OP starts off blatantly accusatory and insulting, so I return the same coin.
>at the same time involving yourself with this topic that you consider "doesn't matter to anyone other than porn addicts pretending to find deeper meaning when it boils down to aesthetic taste and preference "
I only replied because, as I stated at the start - I'd rather provide some push back then let someone ignorant take this blatant liberalism at face-value.
> I think that is an exaggeration to the point of not addressing the point OP made
And yet I did exactly that. People may rant and rave in porn threads about definitions, but most people do not and even the ones that do, rarely do this for days on end because it's really not that big a deal, an offhand comment, a few shitposts and arguments, and by the next thread things have cooled down and people are talking about other things.
> I see "woke" and "anti-woke" signifiers as a fake argument and distortion of 'organic' social justice politics into sort of a managed culture war thing that is intentionally non-conducive to being resolved or producing any useful results, instead only allowing the powers that be more control over the political discourse, while reinforcing both "social identity" based stratification of society not directly based in class, as well as the bourgeoisie's control of both morality as a value form, and essentially holding ransom both minorities and people that fancy themselves leftists, in order to control their behavior through fear and defensiveness and easier drive a wedge between sections of the proletariat and between the vanguard and proletariat acting as a class. howeveer that is a topic for another thread.
Social Justice as a concept isn't organic and even if it were, cannot remain so given glowie interference. However I agree with what you're saying… and yes it is a topic for another thread.
>I don't think OP implied that "being woke is good"
The very fact that they proceed to rant about "muh Culture War" implies that they do think wokeness is good, unless they're just a particularly bad troll.
>This is the cause of some of the outrage but not all of it
It is for the majority.
>Canonically trans or hermaphrodite characters are also the target of enmity from rightwing and transphobic or "antiwoke" political discourse
And often times genuine criticism also, even if /pol/shit gets unfortunately lumped onto it. Most of the time this happens with genuinely hamfisted portrayals for the sake of tokenism (best case scenario), usually seen in media like Marvel Comics. It's just tiresome. Poison and Sylvia worked because they weren't in your face about it, or didn't make it their only personality trait.
>Are cis women that are born without ovaries not women?
I assume you refer to Mayer-Rokitansky-Küster-Hauser (MRKH) Syndrome? That is a medical disorder - an outlier, an exception to the rule.
>Some people prefer "futas" with vaginas and functional wombs,some prefer them with only a penis or only a penis testicles, but that doesn't mean that it is never treated as a political thing
And the very small portion of people that do out of the small portion of people aware of, or into futanari as a fetish, aren't worth the time of day to consider seriously, and should be taken apart like the shit-stirrers they are.

>>23834
You admitted it. You admitted that futa doesn't actually mean "hermaphrodite", even in Japan. It is ALWAYS presumed to be a female-presenting character (or woman, in other words) with a penis. You pointed it out yourself. But you still continued with your torrent of bullshit.
>fully functional woman
And there you have it, the Freudian slip as the crown jewel. "It's not a woman if there's no pussy".
<but there's nothing political about it!
I won't bother responding to the rest of your drivel, just this was enough to dismantle it completely.

>>23842
>Y-you admitted it
I admitted nothing you blithering, cherrypicking dogmatist. Futanari does not DIRECTLY translate to the word, because, as a language that developed in a completely different, independent direction from Latin/Greek based European languages, terminology rarely directly translates, especially as how Kanji are spaced, or the kanji that come before or after them can change their meaning wildly, which is why a single name like Hinata can be spelled and mean different things. If you don't bother to learn anything about a country or its language and culture, please do us all a favor and shut the fuck up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinata?useskin=vector
The same applies to the term Futanari, as while other categories may be interpreted to fall under its definition, generally speaking most people, Japanese and Western tend to interpret it as having female genitals as well as male.
>torrent of bullshit
<translation; I'm an illiterate so I'll dismiss your argument because I can't form a real argument of my own
You're on the wrong site m8, go back.
>It is ALWAYS presumed to be a female-presenting….
Stop using pseudo-intellectual filler, your point could be summarized in an 8-10 word sentence: "Futanari is (considered) always a female with a penis" confirming my argument.
>the Freudian slip
There is no Freudian slip you dumb faggot, I deliberately and specifically stated this. That is the attraction of futanari and WHY people differentiate it from trans in terms of sexual attraction. Some people are not attracted to trans people, some are, and trying to mash the two things together when most people like these fetishes are separate is extremely conceited presumptuous on your part. Many trans people do not want to be considered "futanari", and do not associate with any interpretations of its meaning, because they're not looking to be "both sexes" they're looking to transition from ONE sex to the OTHER as part of Gender Dysphoria. That's not what a FICTIONAL SEX is about.
>but there's nothing political about it!
There isn't. My posts are not a political statement in any way, shape or form, they are a statement relative to internet forum subgroups, social dynamics and sexual fetishes, which have next to no political relevance at all; whether or not people "include trans" in futa porn has no bearing on reality, because futa porn is FICTIONAL PORN! As a reminder the definition of Political: Relating to the government or the public affairs of a country.
>I won't bother responding to the rest of your drivel
Translation: I'm a bitchass with no argument using bad faith fallacies to dismiss criticisms of my liberal identity politics and their pointless virtue signaling.
Concession accepted, go outside and touch grass.

>>23844
>speaking most people, Japanese and Western tend to interpret it as having female genitals as well as male.
Yes, everyone obviously agrees with you, the argument is completely made up. lol, lmao.
>Some people are not attracted to trans people
A pornographic picture of a fictional woman with a penis is not a trans person unless stated by the creator. You said it yourself, it's FICTION. You are POLITICIZING said FICTION when you assign meaning where there is none.
>As a reminder the definition of Political: Relating to the government or the public affairs of a country.
Yep, that's liberalism alright.

the only way to win the culture war is to not even engage in it lol

>The struggle is clearly not about what the word "futa" means or doesn't. It's about exclusion, specifically the exclusion of trans people.
you cant be fucking serious. you people have way too much free time lmfao

>>23845
>everyone obviously agrees with you, the argument is completely made up
<Goal-post shifting, ignoring everything else including specific context, smug laughter
Ah, idiots and laughter, as usual. See the thing is, yes your argument relies on outliers and contrarians (like yourself) that go against the grain out of sheer spite. Most illustrators and consumers of futa hentai and R34 stick with the same definition that /d/ does and r/futanari does and most everyone else. You can lash out about how I'm 'wrong' but you're not going to change my mind or convince me that the futa/pol/ boogiemen living rent-free in your head are relevant to anything.
>A pornographic picture of a fictional woman with a penis is not a trans person unless stated by the creator
I already addressed this specific instance, if you weren't an illiterate chinlet pretending to be a leftist, you'd know that.
>You are POLITICIZING
No, I am not. Stop using words you don't understand to make accusations that have no basis outside of your mentally ill delusions. Take your medication schizo.
>you assign meaning where there is none
Like you are doing?
>that's liberalism alright
<U-u called me a liberal so Imma use "No U" that'll show him!
Just because you're asshurt doesn't make the definition wrong. Even by Marxist definitions of the term, your claim that Futanari's definition being specifically a female with male and female genitalia is somehow political holds NO water, because niche sexual fetishes and the minority of people attempting to shove in their identity politics into them have no bearing on class struggle, or the decisions of political bodies, including in Japan and its laughable to think so. Read a fucking book

I don't know what this argument is about or whether anyone is arguing in good faith, I just like the porn because the thought of making someone else feel good makes me feel happy

I don't see anything harmful about this fetish so I hope people will stop being puritanical pricks and enjoy the porn in peace :(

>>23852
>Bumping this shit thread after it had finally quieted down
<TL;DR: I have no idea what the subject is about so let me randomly talk about le puritans
For fucks sake, why?

>>23824
>It's about exclusion, specifically the exclusion of trans people.
Aren't futanari specifically not trans women? Like you could say there's a resemblance or it could count as symbolic representation, but isn't the concept supposed to be that they just naturally have this combination of features? Whether or not to categorize them under the trans* umbrella is another question, but it seems like, biologically, a futanari is clearly not the same as a trans woman (intersex is more applicable).

The fact that there is obvious overlap between attraction to futanari and attraction to trans women as trans women (i.e. as woman + penis), as opposed to simply as women (penis merely incidental), is a whole additional layer. In fact you could go so far as to say that futanari (which are as a rule and per se an imaginary sex object) are in and of themselves erasure of transgender women. It seems obviously true at least in some cases. The chaser who finds a phallic woman attractive is perhaps uncomfortable with the idea or the image of an actual trans woman and navigates the desire-disgust dichotomy by contriving a new image.

The futanari sublates the trans woman by preserving "woman + penis" while eliminating the more conflicted reality of a "male biological sex" and the prospect of a medical transition. These messier considerations tend to remind such people of the "reality" that they are attracted to a "man." Instead of a "male body" that is "altered" through transition to be more feminine, futanari art imagines a "natural" transwoman. She is female-bodied in all respects but the presence of male genitalia. The insistence by some of the necessity for a vagina or the absence of testicles or other such specifics are symptomatic of this coping mechanism and its idiosyncratic nature. Any particular fetishist fixates more or less on which body part makes them uncomfortable or assured regarding the "real" womanhood of the character.

I thought this was obvious.

This thread is obvious bait people, stop giving it b*mps

I love this thread
but I ain't reading all that

>>23855
The OP is correct, but volatile subject means there is bait in the thread.

>>23824
honestly didn't read but want to nuzzle up to that bulge

>>23858
>The OP is correct
<but volatile subject means there is bait in the thread.
…LMAO

Futanari - What's that? in .pdf format for those that wanted to check the mentioned text without being interrupted by ISP nonsense and weird file formats. Thank you to Glownonymous for the link

i love women with fat cocks and tits

How come rightoids weaponized porn? what kind of conservatives are these? strange bunch of right wingers

>The current that seethes over anime & video game characters being transgender, non-binary, queer, etc.
Sometimes the anger is legit and understandable some times it aint

>You can tell this author was influenced by Westerners by his usage of the word "dickgirl", a word with absolutely zero presence in Japanese-language hentai slang
Western brainrot spreading globally and ruining everything as usual. japan only has a couple more years until its overrun and just becomes America 2.0

>>23883
>Western brainrot spreading globally
True but that has nothing to do with Yana, OP's claim is some schizo-shit.

>>23872
i hate this. I HATE IT. AAAAAAAAAA
brvther, girls with dicks are futanari. that shrimple. you don't need to have an argument whether they're trans women or not because they are drawings, there's obviously some inspiration there but that doesn't matter either. dont do this fucking gay (derogatory) pseud shit. futa started appearing at the same time as trans porn in japan and it satisfies a similar niche of a girl with a dickerino. at the same time, it's not the same thing, but you don't need an autistic category and etymology for everything. why do people need to do this shit

>>23888
Anon, why are you so butthurt about someone categorizing their porn?

>>23840
gay

>>23883
>How come rightoids weaponized porn? what kind of conservatives are these? strange bunch of right wingers
There's that one quote I can't help but feel is relevant…
"Fascism is the frenzy of sexual cripples."
-Wilhelm Reich
>Western brainrot spreading globally and ruining everything as usual. japan only has a couple more years until its overrun and just becomes America 2.0
Exactly why Hayao Miyazaki hates America. Mind, he is the polar opposite of a Japanese nationalist (and was a communist at one point in his life). Still hates burger brainrot taking hold in Japan with a passion.
>>23888
Yes, observe the third image. Pure mental gymnastics.

>>23891
>observe the third image. Pure mental gymnastics.
You'd have a point if at any point there was some sort of negative stigma attached to these categories… but there aren't.
>"Fascism is the frenzy of sexual cripples."
Sounds like codswallop to me, but even so, isn't a rant about a sexual fetish's definition being adjusted and redefined by a group indulging in said fetish exactly that? A frenzy of sexual cripples seeking to police essentially harmless words?

>>23889
it's annoying because i actually meet people who expect me to put up with this autism. also it's annoying in itself in a way i can't explain. i want to give the author a wedgie

>>23893
>i actually meet people who expect me to put up with this autism
<I meet people that talk about different futa definitions
I'mma take Shit that didn't happen for 500. You have to go looking for that in relatively obscure places on the internet, people don't talk about these things in public.
>annoying in itself in a way i can't explain
Because you're feeling offended over nothing, breath in and stop giving a fuck about how someone else prefers a niche that you also may like, really ain't that hard.

>>23894
>You have to go looking for that in relatively obscure places on the internet, people don't talk about these things in public.
where do you think we are? do you think the type of people to frequent hentai websites and porn boards are normalfags?
>stop giving a fuck about how someone else prefers a niche that you also may like
nobody said that

>>23898
>where do you think we are? do you think the type of people to frequent hentai websites and porn boards are normalfags?
NTA but you're proving their point, almost nobody in public or well known social media discusses this subject, so to find posts talking about futa's definition you have to go out of your way to find such content to be offended about. 90% of hentai comments are not in fact about whether or not a pussy is present or not. Neither are most posts on /d/ for that matter, because it's easy to just click off and find something else, instead of being mad over nothing. People having a futa thread with specific criteria does not in any way erase other content, the same way /h/ being vanilla-only doesn't mean /d/ stops existing.

>nobody said that
Don't be obtuse, the entire OP and every post agreeing with them is just seethe about exactly that, only OP is being scummy by shielding their opinion by crying about Trans exclusion to give their whining sympathy. This is in spite of the fact that many Trans people find being associated with futanari as a term offensive.

The only place I've seen serious discourse over futa is on f-list where its a free for all between people mad that trans identities aren't "represented" properly, porn enthusiasts that don't care what chicks with dicks are called, and then people that identify as porn terms like "shemale" that don't want to be spoken for by the other two.

>>23899
>This is in spite of the fact that many Trans people find being associated with futanari as a term offensive.
Nobody is talking about calling trans women "futa", the OP is very clear on how trans people are related to the presented issue.

>>23904
Do you really not see how stupid it is to make liking futa porn or not a "trans issue"?

>>23883
>How come rightoids weaponized porn? what kind of conservatives are these?
Because people like OP keep falling for it.

If you really think about it, dick and balls are feminine and vagina is masculine.

Dick and balls are sensitive and delicate, known for being a weak spot. They protrude from the body in a display that sacrifices function for form, and they lend themselves to decoration and adornment. Just look at the history of codpieces. They're also targeted as a source of insecurity by marketers, in a way that is usually reserved for a woman's body.

Vagina is comparatively very rugged, capable of pushing a whole baby through it (most of the time). It also is known for regularly bleeding a lot, with the owner usually only being inconvenienced by this. It's also quite muscular and strong, unlike the dick which is floppy and lacks much muscular control.

Futas and trans people and so on are therefore merely resolving the yin-yang-like contradiction in the male and female forms.

>>23910
Futas really are the human ideal.

>>23904
>Nobody is talking about calling trans women "futa"
You're deflecting the anon's point. OP makes an unfounded CLAIM tying trans people to futanari relative to the definition preferred by many people, asserting it to be 'exclusionary' and therefore "bad" and "Western" the latter being a buzzword thrown around by people imitating leftypol-speak, although the idea of 'winning the culture-war' reveals their lib colors. OP also blatantly misrepresents the few examples they give, omitting key parts, a tactic commonly used by liberals to make a written work more aligned to their dogma.

Fact is, trans people are more or less unaffected by how futa is defined 'cause only a handful of shut-in autists on minor forums even discuss the topic politically, and it's just inane purely online ramblings. Most people just prefer their futa-pr0n to have both sets based on the implication of Futanari's translation as meaning such - which is a valid interpretation given the flexibility of Japanese linguistic meaning. It literally changes nothing if someone prefers one to the other and nobody should care because it doesn't matter; quite literally a case of "ignore and hide."

TL;DR: Nobody that isn't porn obsessed cares, even people that fap to it.

>>23910
>If you really think about it, dick and balls are feminine and vagina is masculine.
Kek, how high were you when you typed this?

>>23914
>OP makes an unfounded CLAIM
There's nothing unfounded about bigots being into futa. It's schizo, but so are right-wingers in general.
>and nobody should care because it doesn't matter; quite literally a case of "ignore and hide."
Hide this thread if a little critical discussion and analysis of this phenomenon bothers you so much.

>>23926
>There's nothing unfounded about bigots being into futa
That's a MASSIVE goalpost shift, with that argument, one can argue that people into very dark skinned black women are "exclusionary of mulattos and white-passing African-Americans" which is retarded.
Some people are into futa and most, including "bigots" give no fucks about what OP is hyperbolizing, provable by going onto 4/d/ searching futa threads and seeing people post plenty of content with no visible pussy. The only caveat is they don't always wish it to be associated with trans people, more to avoid politics than to invoke them, and frankly many trans people also do not want to be associated with said fetish. So the only ones left to manufacture this drama are contrarians.

The issue OP misrepresented is largely apolitical, mostly unrelated to trans, simply about the definition of a foreign word, having little to do with anti-trans prejudice, and everything to do with personal preference. It's literally the oldest argument on /d/, a running joke for decades, nobody actually takes this shit seriously except a few permanently online autists who have meltdowns and are told to STFU by everyone else who want to peruse porn and talk about getting railed or railing the objects of their fetish.

If people just want to discuss futa objectively, regarding definition and whatnot, that's fine, it's an interesting discussion of a muddled subject because words evolve and meanings change, not to mention linguistic differences and translation issues make for varied interpretations of the term Futanari, even among the Japanese themselves. Concern trolling about politics is lame.

>Hide this thread
<Can't argue the points made so (You) pull a 'No U' card
Really m8?
>critical discussion
LMAO, it's literally lib culture-war bullshit, that's not critical discussion, it's idpol. At least criticism and analysis of crap like interracial fetishization (such as Blacked) has actual politicization that is widely observable and has impacts on real life. Futa and a tiny group of people into it have no such impact.

TL;DR: The "critical analysis" is nonsense - it's porn, people have preferences and fantasies and whatnot, it doesn't affect or harm anyone, especially when its this niche. Trying to gain brownie points by exploiting trans people for sympathy is toxic, liberal behavior. So essentially the only one politicizing this topic is OP, since OP went out of their way to make this post topic, while I have never seen any debates of this subject by rightoids outside of /d/ickgirl threads. It's like the situation with the Japanese McDonalds ad, where a couple, mostly private comments by liberals about 'le conservative fantasy' was ballooned out of proportion by /pol/, literally psy-oping themselves into believing a narrative about "le commies coming for muh McDonalds anime".

>>23911
>>23873
>>23859
>these uyghas really just said "fuck the argument, I just want a futa-gf"
Respectable.

>>23881
>that jiggle
*hnnng*

>Making a futa thread on an SFW board so NSFW stuff of a NSFW subject can't be posted
>Instead of making it a wider topic to discuss or at least trying to be non-partisan and discuss different PoV's OP dogmatically makes it about their political projection.
You suck OP, and not in the good way.

>>23854
>Aren't futanari specifically not trans women?

Not exactly. Not every tranwoman gets bottom surgery. Matter of factly a lot of us do not get it so some of us do like futa for that reason. Everyone is different.

However to OP's point I get what he is saying. I knew a chinletdy who was into futa but hated transwoman since "Well the futa is biologically female and has a dick." There's also a few chaser who are into futa and are weird about transwoman from personal experiences.

Its also hard in the realm of hentai and schlock too. As some futanari are labeled with newhalf. The Jap term for Transwoman. There's a lot of strange crossover and cope with this that I get what OP is talking about. As I've also seen futa groups and servers become slightly chinletdy where they will have a section called "IRL futa" which is just porn and videos of transwoman. And then in the 2D channels and sections for futa porn sometimes get sneedy over people comparing futa to trans despite them whacking it to transwoman porn since they want chicks with dicks.

People are weird.

>>24009

To add on its similar to how transporn is searched the most in highly conservative areas and states. Which is what I think OP was getting at. There are some rightoids who want to get railed by dickgirls but then have politics that hurt people like that.

>>24009
>Not exactly. Not every tranwoman gets bottom surgery.
That's beside the point of the post. The point is that a trans woman would arrive at having a combination of "male" and "female" anatomy through deliberate transition to match their identified gender better, but a futanari is either "just like that" or becomes that way for other reasons. Afaik when they "become" a futanari it's usually AFAB getting a dick instead of AMAB getting a feminine everything else, too. Ontologically they are distinct categories even if they appear similar, and that's the intention. They want to have their cake and eat it too. The construct shares the appearance of something real, but whitewashed of any elements the chvd finds icky.

>>24012
>"just like that" or becomes that way for other reasons.

> it's usually AFAB getting a dick instead of AMAB getting a feminine everything else, too

Poison from Final Fight. Even on this thread it was said that futa became popular around the time IRL trans porn was becoming popular. I can sorta understand OP's point that its hard to separate futa and transwoman entirely.

>>23834
>Moreover people get annoyed when canonically non trans characters are made trans through deliberate mistranslation or retroactive changes, and generally whenever porn goes out of its way to explain a character is trans, it is usually for the sake of shoved in idpol.
chinletdy hands wrote this post. "Ummm akshully, having transwomen in my media is idpol cause… cause… just cause okay?"

>>24014
Underage, liberal hands wrote this strawman cope.
>mmm akshully, having transwomen in my media is idpol cause… just cause..!
You literally greentexted the entire section of the post you're replying to, your strawman has already collapsed on itself 'cause anyone that isn't a radical-liberal will read it and see that the point is not "muh trans in media baaaad" but that arbitrarily changing established characters, especially by Western translators self-admittedly inserting their politics, means people won't just roll over and accept it. Most consumers of this content are largely a-political and a direct mention of transness in such media is usually only done to push politics where nobody wants it, including many trans people, since it exploits them as a political tool rather than represents them as people, literal porky behavior.
Furthermore the post you reply to specifically points out examples of Trans characters that a majority of people LIKE and ACCEPT as trans, (including people on 4/d/ and 4/a/) automatically destroying your "everyone criticizing this is muh /pol/" narrative.

In short you're a radlib with shoddy bait, go back.
Not that anon BTW.

>>24010
>its similar to how transporn is searched the most in highly conservative areas and states.
The data for this is highly suspect IMO, how this is tracked is extremely questionable data-wise, I wouldn't bank on it.
>There are some rightoids who want to get railed by dickgirls but then have politics that hurt people like that.
The key word is SOME. Most people either don't care or just have a preference for a specific sort. Mixing 2D and Real stuff is also stupid. There are no real futas, it's biologically impossible at the moment unless someone engineers some sort of mutagenic retrovirus that could rewrite people on the genetic level to be a third gender or to have both genetic traits in their DNA, which is purely theoretical at best due to the limitations of the XX and XY system humans are tied to biologically, but I digress. Point is most people separate fiction from reality, they're into the fictional middle-sex idea because they associate with the penis but like biological women, but do not have interest in MtF who have not had bottom surgery.

But really nobody cares except a minority of idiots out of a minority of people into this fetish(s) to begin with and most users tend to ignore people that bring it up, or tell them to shut the fuck up and just fap.

>>24010
>>24009
>what I think OP was getting at
>to OP's point I get what he is saying.
The problem with OP's 'point' is that they're making a mountain out of a molehill about the 'issue'. It exists, sure, but not even close to the extent they claim.
Further, they start off with blatant antagonism and provocative accusation, two-facedly attacking people for their particular preferences and projecting the toxic minority onto them. If OP discussed the topic in a more neutral or objective way, more people would be willing to reconsider their positions on the topic. But that's not their intent and it's not going to help change things, quite the opposite in fact.

It's similar to how characters like Hoshikawa Lily are canonically gender-dysphoric while physically a trap, and politicized, terminally online people immediately began to claim that other trap characters, from Haku to Astolfo, were also trans and tried to brow-beat the fans of said characters who preferred the canon of them being effeminate males. This 'caused push-back that only increased anti-trans sentiments among people who otherwise were perfectly accepting of Hoshikawa Lily as trans. In short; Making a new, trans character wasn't a problem for people, the retroactive attempt to change canon for already established characters was what people had a problem with, and transphobes took advantage of that.

Obviously /pol/ will bandwagon and taint anything they perceive as anti-trans, but they're a loud minority and neither represent the majority nor discredit legitimate criticisms, any more than /pol/ having anti-establishment rhetoric does not discredit /leftypol/'s similar anti-establishment rhetoric, as the devil is in the details; /pol/ blames "le jooz" and /leftypol/ recognizes the real issue is porky and the entire capitalist system.

>>24015
>Underage, liberal hands

The GOP convention and pol is over there

>direct mention of transness in such media is usually only done to push politics where nobody wants it
>I'm not against the transes but putting them in the media is push der politics
What's with the Sargon-tier bait? Go on say its woke and act like the rightoid YT grifters.
>Including many trans people
I'm trans and I am happy to be getting rep
>There are no real futas
Transwomen chinletdy
>The data for this is highly suspect IMO,
>I-its suspect!
The chinletdy mask becomes more apperantly
>they associate with the penis but like biological women, but do not have interest in MtF who have not had bottom surgery.
So the issue of fetishization and social alienation with transwomen chinletdy?
>two-facedly attacking people for their particular preferences
Seems you got some inner demons to work out.
>Hoshikawa Lily are canonically gender-dysphoric while physically a trap
chinletdy terms. She's also like 11 or 12 right?
>his 'caused push-back that only increased anti-trans sentiments among people who otherwise were perfectly accepting of Hoshikawa Lily as trans.
Most chinletdies like yourself were already calling her a trap and being shitstains regardless of this chinletdy
>Obviously /pol/ will bandwagon and taint anything they perceive as anti-trans, but they're a loud minority and neither represent the majority nor discredit legitimate criticisms,
I wouldn't even call you redfash. I think you're just /pol/ browing on leftypol
>Making a new, trans character wasn't a problem for people, the retroactive attempt to change canon for already established characters was what people had a problem with, and transphobes took advantage of that.
You seem more then ready to apologize for these types already chinletdy.

>>23826
>whether or not futas needed balls to count as a futa
So yes or no?

>>24019

Not needed imo. Futa has a lot of types. There is balls, no balls, futa with the aforementioned combos with and without a vagina.I even saw strange ones where the penis comes out of the vagina.

>>24018
>The GOP convention and pol is over there
Snide non-argument, dismissed.
>Sargon-tier
<say woke lol!
Just because you keep screeching "/pol/" and bringing up their favored ECelebs, does not make your diatribe an argument.
Also
>Doesn't know how to orange-text
You're definitely new.
>>I'm not against the transes but putting them in the media is push der politics
I literally said the opposite as did the other anon, take your strawman fallacy back to reddit.
>I'm trans and I am happy to be getting rep
Proof? I can just as easily claim that I'm trans as well, not only would you be unable to prove me otherwise, but it has no bearing on the matter. MOST trans people do not like being exploitatively represented, and do not like being associated with futanari.
Example: https://www.quora.com/I-keep-running-into-the-term-futa-and-as-a-trans-woman-it-really-freaks-me-out-How-do-I-get-people-I-know-to-stop-using-it-to-refer-to-trans-women-and-intersex-people
Furthermore it makes you sound desperate that you would stoop to tokenistic representation. It's equivalent to black people being happy at being included in media, even if the depictions are racist and shallow as fuck. Good job in supporting the capitalist status quo.
>Transwomen chinletdy
<Continues to get word-filtered, reaffirming radlib newfag status
Quoting out of context fallacy, next.
>The chinletdy mask becomes more apperantly
And another example of why I say this is underage, besides the teenage-tier fallacious arguments, you cannot even try to coherently respond. There is no mask, you're projecting the /pol/yp boogieman living rent-free in your head. Take meds.
>you got some inner demons to work out.
Ad hominum projection, next
>the issue of fetishization and social alienation with transwomen
No anon, only a bad-faith argumentor like yourself would ignore that part about separation of "2D fiction" and reality.
>chinletdy terms.
You're genuinely mentally ill. Gender-dysphoria is LITERALLY the medical diagnosis for trans people, nimrod, read a fucking book.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms-causes/syc-20475255
>She's also like 11 or 12
Dunno, don't care, I don't have any interest in the character or the show sexual or otherwise, I'm just aware that in the canon of that Zombie anime they have said dysphoria, it's literally a plot point in them becoming a zombie.
>Most chinletdies like yourself
<Everyone I Don't Like is /pol/: A Seething Liberal's Guide to the Internet
Touch grass.
>already calling her a trap
People called her a trap because that's what she was. The point is that she was also trans, one does not exclude the other, they are not dichotomous
>shitstains
The only shitstain is you, whining about literal Twitter Drama.
>I think you're just /pol/ browing on leftypol
I've been on leftypol since before the /leftpol/ split honey. You're a liberal, and liberals are just fascists in disguise. Go back to reddit/4chan/whatever shitty forum you came from.
>You seem more then ready to apologize for these types
You seem to need glasses.

>>24019
I think the most common modern association is, as long as there's a cock and pussy it's futanari, balls optional, Several anons already elaborated that depending on which definition-translation of futanari you take this can include or exclude girls with no vagina. Most people do not care about it either way, only EDrama obsessed idiots actually give a fuck.

>>24021
>Snide non-argument, dismissed.
You know its true that you're just conservative
>Just because you keep screeching "/pol/" and bringing up their favored ECelebs, does not make your diatribe an argument.
Then stop acting like Tim Pool and Sargon.
>You're definitely new.
I was here when this shit was on 8chan
>Proof?
On an image board meant to be anoymomous? I was shrimply giving my POV since it somewhat applies. Though the thing is depressive that even shitheads exist even in socialist circles.
\>MOST trans people do not like being exploitatively represented, and do not like being associated with futanari.
Everyone is different. There are trans people who like to be associated with it and some who do not. YMMV. However it cannot be denied a lot of futa fans do have a taste for trans though in a bad chaser sorta way. More then one community has had a place for posting or sharing "IRL futa" which is just non-op transwomen.
>Furthermore it makes you sound desperate that you would stoop to tokenistic representation. It's equivalent to black people being happy at being included in media, even if the depictions are racist and shallow as fuck. Good job in supporting the capitalist status quo.
Just cause you try to shill and package your chinletdy takes in an attempted left wing message does not make it better. I'm happy we are getting some rep like Bridget and Lily. Neither of them come off as tokens.
>I literally said the opposite as did the other anon, take your strawman fallacy back to reddit.
You tried to make the chinletdy take that the trans in your vidya is forced. You super duper promise its not because you are butthurt.
>And another example of why I say this is underage, besides the teenage-tier fallacious arguments, you cannot even try to coherently respond. There is no mask, you're projecting the /pol/yp boogieman living rent-free in your head. Take meds.
Then stop sounding like the typical 4chinlet teenager or a yotube comment section. Take your pic
>Ad hominum projection, next
You know its true.
>You're genuinely mentally ill. Gender-dysphoria is LITERALLY the medical diagnosis for trans people, nimrod, read a fucking book.
I was referring to trap. A term many transwoman like myself do not like you using. I know its hard for chinletdys to empathize with others but please try. Why would you even thing it was dysphoria I had the issue with and not the word that many transwoman hate?
>Dunno, don't care, I don't have any interest in the character or the show sexual or otherwise
It was about why you would call them a trap and say the look like one. No shit. They're a little kid.
>Everyone I Don't Like is /pol/: A Seething Liberal's Guide to the Internet
Then stop acting like pol. The average person would think you're some kind of Republican
>People called her a trap because that's what she was. The point is that she was also trans, one does not exclude the other, they are not dichotomous
Transwoman do not like being called a trap. At worst its a slur. At best its derogatory. Funnier since you were bitching before about people calling traps trans. LMAO.
>I've been on leftypol since before the /leftpol/ split honey. You're a liberal, and liberals are just fascists in disguise. Go back to reddit/4chan/whatever shitty forum you came from.
Same and types like you were called retarded back then. Even funnier when you make points the typical chinlet would nod along and agree with.
>You seem to need glasses.
You used a slur several times most transwomen do not like. At best you're just ignorant and do not talk to a lot of trans people. At worst you just don't care and want to shit stir.

its weird to see "marxists" trying to pass any cultural value as universal and transhistorical, in this case that a futa cartoon is literally the same as trans people

>>24027
Blame the people that call it transhumanist porn and that girls with dicks are just seen as trans.

>>24022
people are right that futa started as having both sets but nowadays it includes dickgirls and the sort too and not even the /d/ autists care lol

>>24026
Here's your last (You)
>I was here when this shit was on 8chan
You most definitely were not, your internet-slang and obvious liberalism indicates that you're lying. People from there never called it 8chan either. It was 8ch or infinity-chan, etc. 8chan is what 4chan losers called it.
>You know its true that you're just conservative
<If you're not siding with liberal ECelebs, you're a conservative.
LOL
>stop acting like Tim Pool and Sargon
I repeat, just because you claim such, does not make it true. None of my rhetoric is like theirs. The fact that you continue to bring up 2 ECelebs who stopped being relevant back in 2020 proves how obsessed you are. I literally haven't even thought about those 2 mongs until you randomly brought them up.
>On an image board meant to be anoymomous?
Shay literally posted himself, and many users also post proofs of being from Russia, China, being Black or Muslim without revealing their actual identity. This practise is as old as imageboards, if you claim to be an identity to use it as argument by authority (also a fallacy), then you should prove it.
>shrimply
Oh its you. That explains all this bad-faith crap.
>the thing is depressive that even shitheads exist even in socialist circles.
Pot, meet Kettle.
>Everyone is different
I can just as easily use that argument in application to your seethe about people not liking the retconning of characters into being trans. The funniest thing is that a character NOT being canonically trans is meaningless; fanfiction exists, there are characters written from the start as trans and which are accepted by people, and finally, you do not need to be 1:1 with someone to find them compelling, or are you going to argue that males cannot find female characters compelling protagonists? Because that's false.
>More then one community has had a place for posting or sharing "IRL futa" which is just non-op transwomen.
<Some obscure forum you need to look for specifically means something
And are they hurting people? Is this being posted all over MSM? No. As I and many others ITT said, it's a minority of a small group of people into a fetish.
>U-ur just pretending to be leftist
How? Because I'm not mindlessly consuming liberal ideology?
>Bridget
Lily I can understand but Bridget, really? You're happy to be represented by a character who, by their own admission was FORCED to dress as a girl while repeatedly telling the player they identify as a boy? A character that, by retroactively making them forced into being trans literally reaffirms the /pol/ rhetoric of "trans groomers". Wow, that's actually toxic.
>take that the trans in your vidya
I don't play video games, retard, nor did I mention them at any point. You're obsessed.
>stop sounding like the typical 4chinlet teenager or a yotube comment section
Pot, meet Kettle, again.
>You know its true
Not an argument, next
>I was referring to trap.
Trap isn't used for trans-women, hasn't been used for them in a long while and even when it was, it was extremely rare and the only reason some scant-few people ever used the term online referring to trans people was because Bailey Jay called themselves a trap, and Jay was referencing the far older anime trope, and even then that's because some people can't tell the difference between a transvestite and a transsexual. The very fact that the term trap is almost exclusive to anime circles and that weebs vehemently refuse to use it in reference to characters with breasts and dicks is proof.
>I know its hard for chinletdys to empathize with others
You're living proof of it, you sociopath. You attack other posts and people you don't know with wild accusations. At no point have I, or anyone else ITT talked ill of anyone other than /pol/fags.
>It was about why you would call them a trap and say the look like one. No shit. They're a little kid.
Not this shit again. Shota and trap are not the same thing, but that's beside the point. You're trying to lead into some moralfagging bait about pedos. Stop shifting goal-posts.
>Why would you even thing it was dysphoria I had the issue with and not the word that many transwoman hate?
Because your posts are incoherent verbal diarrhea, with flecks of terminally-online buzzwords and lame gotchas
>Then stop acting like pol. The average person would think you're some kind of Republican
Contrary to your burger-centric, American exceptionalist view of the world, most people do not view things in a lens of "ur democrat or republican", and most people don't see a post that accepts bigots exist but points out how OP self-admits to it being culture-war nonsense, and thinks "huh that means Rite-ving!"
>Transwoman do not like being called a trap
As explained;
A) Traps, like futa, are fictional characters, biological males dressed as and appearing as female. Some traps actually identify as female, but that is a minority of them
B) People do not use the term trap to refer to IRL trans people, it's an anime-specific term that came from anime subculture.
>Funnier since you were bitching before about people calling traps trans
Funnier still is that I did no such thing. I said that some politicized liberals took a trap that was revealed to be trans in the story of their anime, and began to claim all traps as canonically 'trans' because of it and fans of said characters rejected the narrative, despite these same fans accepting the trans identity of other characters without protest. The shitstorm died down and people went back to fapping to crossdressers, because it's meaningless EDrama.
>You used a slur
<So much for the tolerant left!
Seriously, shut the fuck up with this gaslighting. Trap is not a slur. Futanari is not a slur. It is impolite to use it towards real people, but nobody actually does, because its a term almost exclusively used for fictional characters and pornography. And If you're referring to fag, that is imageboard lingo and has been used on /leftypol/ since it was created, which you'd know if you actually WERE an oldfag as you claim to be.
>you're just ignorant and do not talk to a lot of trans people.
Honey, one of my coworkers, with whom I am good friends with is trans, and we've discussed this specific subject before and she's not a person who takes any shit from anyone/ She did not find anything I said to be transphobic, because she's not insecure and terminally online. Additionally I actually read posts and opinions of trans people on these subjects, and I read studies and statistics and whatnot to be informed on this subject and understand it. Futanari relative to trans people aren't even a BLIP on the political RADAR, even in the USA, and word-policing people for it is childish at best, and is just fascistic at worst. Like the saying goes, scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
>At worst you just don't care and want to shit stir.
You're the one stirring up shit with bad faith arguments, piss off.

>>24029
>not even the /d/ autists
That's what everyone has been saying, everyone that isn't picking a fight that is.

>>24028
>>24027
>its weird to see "marxists" trying to pass any cultural value as universal and transhistorical, in this case that a futa cartoon is literally the same as trans people
>Blame the people that call it transhumanist porn and that girls with dicks are just seen as trans.
It's a muddled issue and you can't please everyone. It's why >>23872 was made by Nekoarashi, to try and categorize everything by commonly accepted definitions and avoid the drama, but there's always a small number of malcontented people, seeking to provoke an argument
People that get anal about it need to take a chill-pill and relax.

>>24031
>You most definitely were not
I was.
>If you're not siding with liberal ECelebs, you're a conservative.
Where was that said?
>None of my rhetoric is like theirs.
You repeat their same talking points. Frankly Its not just them. You sound like a lot of right wing grifting e-celebs.
>Shay literally posted himself, and many users also post proofs of being from Russia, China, being Black or Muslim
Whis is still retarded and also could easily be faked. Though it seems you are actually pissed someone from the actual trans group does not agree with you as its hard to pull your bullshit.
>Oh its you. That explains all this bad-faith crap.
Not the guy you are probably thinking of as this is the first time we met.
>I can just as easily use that argument in application to your seethe about people not liking the retconning of characters into being trans.
When did we talk about that?
>and finally, you do not need to be 1:1 with someone to find them compelling,
This is true but its why I call you a right winger and chinletdy. Your main issue seems to be the fact there are minorities more in media. Despite your attempted contrarianism. Its a very easy thing to say when you've always been represented.
>And are they hurting people? Is this being posted all over MSM? No.
Its relateed to more dehumanization and fetishization. Something that cis woman also go through too. Though I am tempted to have you say how feminist theory is not leftist and has not been tied to the left. I almost dare you. Its not hard to feel pissed when people shit on your rights IRL but then jerk it to fictional depictions of you>Lily I can understand but Bridget, really? You're happy to be represented by a character who, by their own admission was FORCED to dress as a girl while repeatedly telling the player they identify as a boy? A character that, by retroactively making them forced into being trans literally reaffirms the /pol/ rhetoric of "trans groomers".
Gotcha. Right on the chinletdy point. The people who always bring that up were grifters. Bridget's story in the game was not grooming. I doubt you actually care about it either. But its nice you latch onto it. By your own admission you basically agree with the /po/-take on it. You're just a conservative that likes red asthetics. Bridget's story to summarize breifly is that she did indeed prove the supersition of her village stupid. Though she was still not happy. The game and plotline is her finding herself and realizing it. None of it was grooming and even at the end it was her coming to her own stories. Matter of factly most trans leftists and leftists in general support or liked Bridget as a character. Only some right-wing chinlets bitched and had a fit. Again you can say what you want but you keep ending up on the side of conservatives and acting like you're still vaugley left.
>I don't play video games, retard,
You were talking about tokenism and media and you just shot your own point in the foot above about Bridget on this. Actual brainlet LMAO
>Pot, meet Kettle, again
Not the one repeating right wing talking points. If it talks like a duck?
>Not an argument, next
You're very nervous about self reflection.
>Trap isn't used for trans-women
But you just used it for a transwoman. Are you drunk when making these replies? Its also been a slur used against them. One you also just used for a trans character who you admit is trans.
>because some people can't tell the difference between a transvestite and a transsexual.
you're obviously one of them since you used it on a trans character who you said yourself was trans.
>You're living proof of it, you sociopath. You attack other posts and people you don't know with wild accusations.
You used slurs and very clearly have issues seeing stuff outside your point of view. Like why people might like some rep. But no its just an ebil plot by das liberals. You can go jerk it to some right wing grifter instead.
>Because your posts are incoherent verbal diarrhea,
Ironic since other people on this very same thread said the same about you. I think you just can't read or at best ESL.
>Contrary to your burger-centric, American exceptionalist view of the world
Not American, also who is making projections now? Honestly I thought you were American with how much you sound like their Republicans
>and most people don't see a post that accepts bigots exist but points out how OP self-admits to it being culture-war nonsense
Its not just an American thing either. Other nations in the world use it as well be it the likes of say Russia that says LGBT propaganda is going to invade and turn proper Russians gay or other countries using it to weigh in on stuff like refugeee immigration or rights for LGBT.
>Seriously, shut the fuck up with this gaslighting. Trap is not a slur.
Trap is indeed a slur. Even if for some reason you do not want to think I am trans many transwoman have lameneted how the word was used against them or how they had people use it as a slur against them. It does happen. It is a slur. This is on the logic of saying your black best friend gave you the n-word pass
>he did not find anything I said to be transphobic,
Black best friend. Again for someone on the left you sound eactly like a right winger at every turn. The only thing slightly left about you is you spew vomit of right wing talking points and then add "BTW I hate porky." The Strassers might be a better fit for you.
>Additionally I actually read posts and opinions of trans people on these subjects, and I read studies and statistics
You obviously are not since you even try to say I myself am not trans and half the shit and words you use are things so many transwomen would fucking hate.
>and word-policing people for it is childish at best, and is just fascistic at worst.
<You won't let me say slurs and call me out when I act bigoted? You must be a liberal which is a fascist!
Well guys. I guess antifa was the real fascists after all!
>You're the one stirring up shit with bad faith arguments, piss off.
I don't think I will. And honestly the board needs stuff like this as there are many users who are just red conservatives and beef steak Nazis TBQH

>24036
What an unpleasant pile of ad hominum garbage to come back to. I'm going to start off by clarifying that I am into futa, and I find some MtF people that kept their penises sexually attractive. I don't chase because it's purely a visual appreciation for me, I have never felt prejudice against trans people or their presence in media. That does not mean I kowtow to liberal ideology. Trans people deserve representation and rights, that is not the same as supporting capitalism's twisted interpretations of that. The same applies to crossdressers/transvestites; for example Fire Emblem from Tiger & Bunny is a drag-queen superhero, they're a likeable character with trauma and a compelling story, nobody has a problem with accepting their character.
>I was
Nope
>Where was that said?
It's implicit, which is exactly the assumptive method you've been using to accuse me of things I've not said.
>You repeat their same talking points…
Nope, you're just claiming that to sound superior, unlike you I never wasted my time watching youtube essays about culture wars from either side, because identity politics is cancer.
>Whis is still retarded and also could easily be faked.
You can't exactly fake a real-time photo with your hand and a hand-written date on a photo. You're deflecting.
>it seems you are actually pissed someone from the actual trans group
Anon, you're the one who is seething about nothing and screaming accusations with little to no basis, and associating them with the people you're obsessed with because you think that validates your claim.
Furthermore at no point do I expect everyone from trans community to have an identical opinion on different matters, however having spoken with many trans people, listened and read what they've said, (You) are exactly like /pol/ in this situation - screaming about drama most people involved do not remotely care about.
>When did we talk about that?
Don't be obtuse
>its why I call you a right winger and chinletdy
Which is an indirect way of saying that you know it's true, but because the truth rubs you the wrong way you're going to accuse me of being a Nazi. Considering that I came up on /leftypol/ literally fighting them IRL, I have no tolerance for your accusations.
>Your main issue seems to be the fact there are minorities more in media.
Then you need to get some sleep, get glasses and improve your reading comprehension.

I'm going to spell it out, one last time, in the simplest, most understandable terminology possible:
A character being trans is not a problem for the large majority of people, if its just another part of their identity (instead of their entire identity) as a character. Examples given are Sylvia (Konosuba) and Poison (Final Fight). More importantly these characters were written as trans and are accepted and enjoyed by a large number of people, especially due to their personality being more than shallow caricaturesque of 'I'm trans!' - they have motivations, interests and quirks outside their sexual identity; that is what makes them actual characters with depth. This is not a controversial statement, nor is expecting good writing Right-Wing. I have the exact same expectations and criticisms of any characters of any sex or sexuality, male or female.
Example from popular media - Kylo Ren is poorly written, his entire character can be summarized into "incel rage" which is lame and shallow in the context of the story, especially since his Legends prototype was much more compelling and complex a character, because people don't just turn over in bed and fall to the dark-side of the force, they are pushed to it by something. His obsession with Rei is shallow and the writing has to twist itself into a knot to give it some sort of justification and failing.
Another Example from popular media - Yon-Rogg and Ms.Marvel from 2019's Captain Marvel film - their entire identity is "I am a woman" and "I am a man" with extremely stereotypical tropes draped loosely on these utterly depthless main characters.

Additionally, a character being made trans when they were not before is ill-received because it's taking a characteristic not belonging to the character and shoving it in, contradicting the prior story. The reverse equivalent would be to retroactively rewrite a character like Poison to actually proclaim that they weren't actually trans after years of their trans status being a part of their story. It implies that sexual identity can be switched on and off, essentially implying that you can make a person gay or straight or trans.

>Its a very easy thing to say when you've always been represented.
Wow, you just assumed my identity huh? Hypocrite. My representation in West media has often been that of cartoonish villains/terrorists of "le other side" so stuff your minority entitlement up your ass.
>Despite your attempted contrarianism
You're the contrarian, literally nobody but you and OP agree with the presented narrative ITT, that's 2 out of 23, less than 10%
>Its relateed to more dehumanization and fetishization
That's what capitalism and the porn industry does and is something men also go through, your point is moot, because that makes this entire thread pointless - OP is talking about inclusivity in porn, meaning their problem isn't the fetish itself, but their view of the fetish's fans. The number of trans amateur porn being made on OF alone is staggering, so take that as you will.
>I am tempted to have you say how feminist theory is not leftist and has not been tied to the left
It isn't tied to the left because it's liberalism, and liberalism is only left-wing for ignorant right-wingers whose Overton Window is skewed. The Feminist Movement is bourgeoisie and its theories, especially Second and Third-Wave Feminism were dismissed by Socialist Women's Rights Activists and Socialists in general for being anti-communist identarianism. Marx and his colleagues rejected Victoria Woodhull, Clara Zetkin and Kollontai's rejections come to mind too. Furthermore the feminist narrative from the Second Wave onward was quite literally curated by the CIA, with feminist 'icons' like Gloria Steinem openly admitting glowie status.
>Its not hard to feel pissed when people shit on your rights IRL but then jerk it to fictional depictions of you
Futanari are not you, nor are they meant to represent you unless specified by the illustrator/author. It's harmless, niche fiction and has NOTHING to do with your "rights" any more than Arab porn has anything to do with Muslim rights, only /pol/ incels and liberals push this, it's why they're obsessed with making any interracial porn a racial dick-measuring contest instead of just 2 adults having sex.

>You're very nervous about self reflection
Repeating an unsubstantiated claim does not make it an argument
>Not the one repeating right wing talking points.
You literally defend a story retcon that is word-for-word a /pol/ talking point, fuck off.
>But you just used it for a transwoman.
Misrepresenting my argument is not an argument itself. I stated a FICTIONAL character considered a trap, is also gender dysphoric. If the character already transitioned then they wouldn't be called a trap.
>Its also been a slur used against them
Practically never, there's a lot of other slurs used for trans but trap was never common, especially now.
>you're obviously one of them
You're the one with no reading comprehension. Get contact lenses hon.
>You used slurs and very clearly have issues seeing stuff outside your point of view
You're projecting. Words are words and I'm not directing them at anyone, ';m describing things as they are. This is a Korean Nuke Making forum and you're complaining about "le bad words?" Where do you think you are? As for seeing others points of view, I have repeatedly brought up several points of view of people involved in the debate, I just don't pussy-foot around the topic. You are the one refusing to see anyone elses POV but your own, and crying "/pol/" at anyone that doesn't agree with your radical-liberal rhetoric.
>if for some reason you do not want to think I am trans
I don't not want to think you are trans, I'm just not taking a claim at face value
>many transwoman have lameneted how the word was used against them or how they had people use it as a slur against them. It does happen
As stated I've never heard this used in person, even on trans forums, most of them haven't experienced it being used about them. Even fewer have had it used as an intentional slur. I've also seen trans people defend the term trap as harmless and primarily used towards fictional crossdressers, not real people. There are actual material problems trans people face that are far more important that some niche reddit comment using anime slang on an obscure thread. “Trap” is an innocent term anime fans use jokingly, sarcastically, and as a way to banter on the internet when making or commenting on memes, certain anime characters, and all that A few bad apples using it to make something positive into a negative happens all the time with everything.
>You won't let me say slurs and call me out when I act bigoted
>I guess antifa was the real fascists after all!
Strawman
>You must be a liberal which is a fascist!
YES, YOU ARE
>the board needs stuff like this
<lets politicize this board with cancerous liberal takes when most people just want to enjoy anime and manga
There's a reason this board is separate from /leftypol/.
>red conservatives and beef steak Nazis
<Muh red fash, muh red-browns
Only bad faith liberals with garbage attitudes make this argument. You project your toxicity onto others, then cry when people call you out for it. You promote the erasure of gender non-conformity because it strokes your ego. Go to >>>/siberia/ if you want to discuss this topic, stop harassing people here with neurotic blog-posting.

>24036
>>24046
Cont.
>Gotcha
Thinking with "gotchas" is an emotional child's way of seeing things - again get off this site, you're underage.
>The people who always bring that up were grifters
I don't know what ECelebs brought it up I don't bother listening to political pundits, I knew about it through the Japanese, many of whom were annoyed by Western political insertion, as were trans people. Its even seen in the English and Japanese translations of the game with Bridget continuing to identify as Otoko no Ko, but calling themselves transsexual in the English translation, which contradicts the narrative of their character being forced to dress and behave as a girl counter to their identity, mirroring the Reimer twins somewhat.
>Bridget's story to summarize breifly is that she did indeed prove the supersition of her village stupid. Though she was still not happy. The game and plotline is her finding herself and realizing it.
<Bridget accepting the labels forced onto him against his will is good! Nevermind that Bridget was comfortable being feminine and kept wearing girly clothing, but still wanted people respect the fact that he was 100% a boy and not to misgender or dismiss him!
You're writing fanfiction in your head to fit your narrative. The whole reason he became a bounty hunter was to prove to himself, to the village and the world that he was no less of a man just because he dressed or looked or acted in a feminine way. Bridget's storylines is about going up to various macho characters, asking tips on how to be more manly. To renege on this contradicts his character arc since his introduction of him refusing to be called a girl, and getting depressed about being mistaken for one, because he considers himself a man and was denied being allowed to grow up as one. By retconning him to be trans the story essentially says "The village that hurt him was right, you can force a child become trans through psychological conditioning." That's literally grooming. Hell, grooming victims being traumatized into accepting the role they're groomed into is among the consequences of such abuse. More to the point, as I said earlier, Bridget does not identify as trans in the original Japanese. Forcing the character to be trans is just another form of erasure and this has been expressed by transvestites and transsexuals, see pic. The irony of your fallacious argument is that Testament was expressed as non-binary/asexual, which most people (including many that didn't like Bridget's change) accepted because it was consistent with their story - a weapon turned into a person.
Hell there's a repeated line where Bridget says: いろいろあって女の子のか恰好してるだけで……
Translating to: "A lot of things happened, so I dress like a girl"
That's being a transvestite, not a transsexual. By comparison Lily died out of shock at the realization about their identity and their harsh treatment while alive and comes to accept herself with support from friends while a Zombie.
It's honestly staggering that hanger-ons like you take an anime icon of gender-nonconformity and demand they're trans, LITERALLY promoting a character change that represents the right-wing's most common transphobic argument, YOU are enabling transphobia in a more widespread media form than any futa-fetishist. Me pointing out that you are supporting a transphobic narrative that also indulges in the erasure of crossdressers is the opposite of /pol/. Again you're a bloody liberal, a closet fascist

>You were talking about tokenism and media and you just shot your own point in the foot above about Bridget on this
And I didn't bring up video games at all, you did. I know of Bridget because of hentai and discussions of it on /a/, so I watched play-throughs to know the story. I don't play video games, I never even discussed the video-game aspects of it because at some point I liked the story and characters, I've since moved on, I only know about Strive because it was a big release and I looked at playthroughs for nostalgia and discovered this change.
>I doubt you care about it
Ok Kettle
>By your own admission you basically agree with the /po/-take on it.
The fuck is /po/? I've admitted to nothing of the sort.
>most trans leftists and leftists in general support or liked Bridget as a (trans) character.
No, they didn't. Pic rel is a collection of screencaps from different trans people, a translation of Bridget's character from Japanese and a conversation with a trans Japanese fanartist that draws Bridget as a boy. The attached pdf is a translated historical analysis of reactionary revisionism of traps and trans in anime.
Trans people are not unified in their view of this depiction and for most leftists this is culture-war stuff that doesn't have any socio-economic impact outside of very niche circles, so your attempt to speak for leftists and other trans people is at best offensive.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Guiltygear/comments/wmfbm5/as_a_trans_girl_i_dont_feel_great_about_bridget_i/
>Only some right-wing chinlets bitched and had a fit
Funny how the Japanese including fans, fanartists and the actual Japanese text ignores this supposed canon and disliked its existence. I'm ending this /v/ermin argument here, you can take it back to whatever /v/ clone you came from. Nobody outside of /pol/ is debating allowing trans-rights in games, they just do not agree that changing Bridget to be trans is the best choice over creating a new character that's trans. As stated by other anons, Poison is a trans character, people don't have a problem with her, because she was made as a trans character from the start and people accepted it.

TL;DR: Not being liberal =/= conservative. Bridget's retcon is internalized transphobia and homophobic to boot. People are fine with characters being trans, they don't like changes contradicting prior story telling.

>>23997
/anime/ literally has NSFW threads, what the fuck are you talking about. Spoiler and as long as it's not loli it should be ok. Glownonymous uyghas really post the dumbest shit.

>>24102
>Bumping this shit-storm of a thread to say dumb shit like this
/anime/ has NSFW content but it ALWAYS has to be spoilered, this did not used to be the case back when the the alt boards were being made, which is why some older threads have unspoilered content. This changed a few years ago - what is meant by 'NSFW allowed' is like /siberia/ where, so long as the OP image is not NSFW you do not have to spoiler images, idiot. It's literally right there >>>/sfw/
Lurk Moar.

>>24103
So what the fuck are you whining about you actual retard.

My Point —————→

>>24119

Don't be obtuse. Nobody likes threads where nearly every post is spoilered thumbnails, it's why everyone posts hentai and porn on /siberia/ and why making a thread about a type of sex-specific imagery in a SFW board is retarded, since posting anything futa will be censored or spoilered by necessity, as demonstrated. People can't just post pr0n and talk amongst one another about the topic.

>>24120
Chairman Mao🫡

>>24140
I did an effort/shit-post on Asakura Mao as a representation of communist a LONG while back lol >>3574 It was glorious.

>>24141
>>24140
>Salute Futanari Chairman Mao
KEK!

>>24046
>It isn't tied to the left because it's liberalism, and liberalism is only left-wing for ignorant right-wingers whose Overton Window is skewed. The Feminist Movement is bourgeoisie and its theories,

NTA but you really? Socialism and feminism have always been tied. I can't even tell half the garbage word wall the both of you spewed out but you do come off a bit as a right winger that just wants a planned economy. Marx wrote a lot about the emancipation of women and the USSR was one of the first states to have feminist concepts like no fault divorce, voting (though NZ beat them as the first). Unironically go back and read theory and even fucking Marx himself.

>>24171
im gonna guess theyre talking about libfems and radfems who compose almost the entirety of the feminist movement since marxist/anarchist feminism is laughably irrelevant given almost everyone agrees it already comes with socialism anyway

anyone who talks about feminism all the time and doesnt mention class once is sus to me

>>24171
>Socialism and feminism have always been tied.
My dude the big "feminist" names of Marxism all took a shit on feminism for being liberal and really only interested in bourgeois rights for women too (i.e. for the wives of the bourgeoisie to be allowed to be bourgeoisie themselves). None of those women called themselves feminists, that label was only applied to them posthumously by lying liberals who wanted to make it seem more prestigious and to create a (perceived) monopoly on all politics of women's lib.

>>24173
Frontism on the basis of non-class-based issues is a truly ineradicable disease afflicting the majority of ‘communists’. They’re genuinely shocked when you tell them communism isn’t about, in this case, feminism.

>>24171
There's a big difference between the petty bourgeoisie’s conditions of liberation, and the conditions of liberation for various minorities drawn from all classes. Leftists needing to side with the most oppressed is correct.

Delete /leftypol/ and /edu/, the real sociological analysis lives here.

>>24171
>Socialism and feminism have always been tied
Socialism and WOMEN'S RIGHTS have always been tied with the emancipation of Women alongside men. Feminism is an identarian ideology with bourgeoisie motives, as several other anons pointed out before I could reply, it is not the same as Women's Rights movements. I have never had a problem with women's rights, if anything I have much to thank the women in my life for and I do my best for them, so don't lecture me.
>I can't even tell half the garbage word wall the both of you spewed out
The fact that your sentence is barely coherent, makes me think that is a problem of you not having good reading comprehension.
>Unironically go back and read theory and even fucking Marx himself.
This is extremely ironic coming from you when I LITERALLY cite the examples you name, and specify Marx's rejection of identity politics with the example of Victoria Woodhull. I think you are the one that needs to re-read the theory and perhaps improve your reading comprehension.

>>24172
>theyre talking about libfems and radfems who compose almost the entirety of the feminist movement
Well yes, I specify that detail in the post they're responding to, they just ignored it.

>>24174
>Frontism on the basis of non-class-based issues
Marx and Engels both talked about women as a class since women were a class. In the same way Marx talked about how capitalists and upper classes hurt the lower, he noticed and talked about women as their own class and how patriarchy effects them.
>already comes with socialism anyway
Highly presumptuous. Not everyone who shares the ideology is an angel and there are men in socialism who have a very male dominated focus on it.
>None of those women called themselves feminists
There's an entire subsection called Marxist feminism. You also have figures like Elizabeth Gurley Flynn and Angela Davis who called themselves feminist.
>Socialism and WOMEN'S RIGHTS have always been tied with the emancipation of Women alongside men. Feminism is an identarian ideology with bourgeoisie motives, as several other anons pointed out before I could reply, it is not the same as Women's Rights movements. I have never had a problem with women's rights, if anything I have much to thank the women in my life for and I do my best for them, so don't lecture me.
This is in spite of how socialists used the word feminist for their movements and as important goals. The fact you need to add "Don't lecture me" is the issue with this board sometimes is that some people cannot fathom they may hold reactionary views. You're basically doing the meme of people who say "I am not a feminist I am an egalitarian". No one is saying to not be one, but feminism was and is needed due to the alienation and oppression women have faced.
>The fact that your sentence is barely coherent, makes me think that is a problem of you not having good reading comprehension.
You and the other guy spewed walls of diarrhea at each other.
>Marx's rejection of identity politics
Marx went at length about women as a separate class and how patriarchy and their oppression by it is similar to the ruling capitalist class. By your own logic Marx was into identity politics.
>Well yes, I specify that detail in the post they're responding to, they just ignored it.
You've outright went for the meme that feminism is bad so to avoid your feelings getting hurt you had to re-label it women's rights (which is the same thing). No idea if anyone here even interacts with other people, let alone an actual leftist group. Most socialist and communist parties/group would raise eyebrows at some of the takes here.

>>24046
>I have never felt prejudice against trans people or their presence in media.
You went for the "Why do you need rep? Can't you just like a character for a character?" earlier. Which no one is saying that. We can still like other characters. Its just nice to see us in media.
>That does not mean I kowtow to liberal ideology. Trans people deserve representation and rights, that is not the same as supporting capitalism's twisted interpretations of that.
Issue is rep to you = liberal. Everything you do not like is a liberal.
>Here's your last (You)
BTW you can't help but attention whore obviously with these blog posts.
>accuse me of things I've not said.
You've said things many times. You cannot help but slur and not see anyone else's view point but your own.
>You can't exactly fake a real-time photo with your hand and a hand-written date on a photo. You're deflecting.
How does this show one is transgender? Do transwomen have different hands or?
>Furthermore at no point do I expect everyone from trans community to have an identical opinion on different matters, however having spoken with many trans people, listened and read what they've said,
You haven't. Most trans groups already lean left for obvious reasons. Things you say are opposed by most transwomen and not the tokens you have made up in your mind. Also projection much when you spout off the same rhetoric as /pol/?
>Considering that I came up on /leftypol/ literally fighting them IRL,
I highly doubt it. Unless you mean you wrote text walls to people and considered that fighting.
>Then you need to get some sleep, get glasses and improve your reading comprehension.
And you whine and bitch about others being rude to you. You legit did above try to make excuses on why rep was bad. Now you are backpedaling on it.
>My representation in West media has often been that of cartoonish villains/terrorists of "le other side" so stuff your minority entitlement up your ass.
<minority entitlement
Careful there chinletdy. I guess you are Eastern Euro then or Middle East given what you said? That case you should realize then what you said that rep would be better no? Its also impossible to deny that most media especially in gaming has been about cishet white men,
>That's what capitalism and the porn industry does and is something men also go through, your point is moot, because that makes this entire thread pointless - OP is talking about inclusivity in porn, meaning their problem isn't the fetish itself, but their view of the fetish's fans.
OP is talking about not just futa but the very real thing that a lot of transphobes who fetishize transwomen but hurt their rights IRL. Like how a lot of conservative areas have a lot of searches for transporn. To give another point of view. Similar to how a lot of fascists have yellow fevfer but oppose minority rights.
>t isn't tied to the left because it's liberalism, and liberalism is only left-wing for ignorant right-wingers whose Overton Window is skewed.
Someone else opened this new topic but socialist parties then and even now still identify as feminist. Just because you want to try and re-brand your conservativism as left wing does not make it so chinletdy.
>Repeating an unsubstantiated claim does not make it an argument Proving the point.
>. I stated a FICTIONAL character considered a trap, is also gender dysphoric. If the character already transitioned then they wouldn't be called a trap.
Transwomen do not like being called a trap. Again why you are obtuse and why I said its considered a slur. Transwomen who are pre-op or even non-op still do not like to be called a trap. As they are not trying to "Trap" you. Weeb brain.
>Practically never, there's a lot of other slurs used for trans but trap was never common, especially now.
You just used it as one. A lot of trans spaces do not want to be called trap. A lot of trans women have issues with being called one. Its also related to the trans panic defense.
>This is a Korean Nuke Making forum and you're complaining about "le bad words?"
You really are a newfag. The thing is not just about le bad words. Its that you act like a boomer about it. You can use the "bad words". The issue is when you use it against the groups those slurs are used against. Again you really do sound like a chinletdy and conservative with the whole "Oh now I cannot use bad words?" No you retard. You can still use them. Just do not use them against the groups they hurt. Leftypol does not support transphobia and racism. Unless that changed somehow.
>I've also seen trans people defend the term trap as harmless and primarily used towards fictional crossdressers, not real people.
Yeah and you can find black people who say you can use the n-word and give out n-word passes. Doesn't make it okay.
>There's a reason this board is separate from /leftypol/.
This is still a website and board for people who are politically minded. Even other threads here have talked about the politics of such things like Spy X Family. But whatever makes you happy to jerk it to dickgirls anon. You can still do that.

>>24195
You're replying to several anons, but only linked one, that's not very cash-money of you.
>Marx and Engels both talked about women as a class since women were a class.
…wow, you don't know what Class means in a Marxist context, do you? You're quite literally making shit up and slapping on Marx and Engels because you think that will deter criticism.
>the same way Marx talked about how capitalists and upper classes hurt the lower, he noticed and talked about women as their own class and how patriarchy effects them
He didn't not ascribe women to their own class; He materially analyzed the paths of women's oppression, demonstrating it as a product of the economic, political, and social structures of capitalism. This analysis is based entirely on the 19th Century system of predatory capitalism, which changed with the turn of the century due to workers movements of Men AND Women rising up against corporate oppression despite things like the Police Raids and Pinkertons. This, along with the rise of the USSR, is what pushed capitalism to develop into the social-democrat welfare-capitalist system we have today, as capitalists took rational decisions to change the system and defuse the acceleration.
>Highly presumptuous
No it's not, it's literally a part of over-throwing the capitalist system and eliminating class.
>Not everyone who shares the ideology is an angel and there are men in socialism who have a very male dominated focus
Vague non-argument. There are bad people in any ideology for any number of reasons. As for "male dominated focus" you're just conjuring up a vague, ill-defined boogie-man of whom you have little to no actual examples of to demonstrate.
>here's an entire subsection called Marxist feminism
You're shifting the goal-posts, that term is not one they ascribed to themselves, it is one ascribed to them. They did not called themselves feminists and rejected it outright.
>Angela Davis
Only after she abandoned the movement of communism and became a radical liberal
>Elizabeth Gurley Flynn
I have not seen a single speech of hers wherein she described herself as a feminist. I may have missed a quote perhaps, but I've read a lot of her works and do not recall such. If anything Ms.Flynn adamantly focused on the WORKING class.
>This is in spite of how socialists used the word feminist for their movements and as important goals
Fucking where? You sound like a /pol/fag.
>is the issue with this board sometimes is that some people cannot fathom they may hold reactionary views
No anon, most people just don't appreciate some rando white-knight on a high-horse making moral-fag judgement calls about others without knowing them and accusing them of being Nazis or other such terminology based on the fact that they aren't shilling identity politics.
>You're basically doing the meme of people who say "I am not a feminist I am an egalitarian"
Just take off your mask and screech "Class Reductionist" I know you want to. Also nobody here uses egalitarian like that, you fucking GLOW
>feminism was and is needed due to the alienation and oppression women have faced.
No, Women's Rights is what was and is needed, feminism is an ideology, an ideology that distracts from the real problems and tokenizes women's issues, serving Capitalism and the furthered oppression of women, but of course if those women aren't in the USA they don't matter, right?
>You and the other guy spewed walls of diarrhea at each other.
This is leftypol, lengthy discussion is the norm, and you're not exactly posting small either.
>Marx went at length about women as a separate class and how patriarchy and their oppression by it is similar to the ruling capitalist class.
This is why I'm telling you to improve your damn reading comprehension. Marx was COMPARING the situation of women under the capitalist system's twisting of family dynamics to the dynamic of the working class relative to the bourgeoisie, a metaphor demonstrating how the socio-economic environment impacts the material conditions and cultural structures of a civilization - the Base-Superstructure back-n-forth. This is NOT the same as literally ascribing women as a literal class within society, nor does it actually have relevance today, as (outside of rural extremist subcultures) women do not live under the conditions they did in the 1890s, which is the entire crux of Marx's analysis. Read Kapital Vol 1 part IV
>You've outright went for the meme that feminism is bad
It's not a 'meme' it's a fact. Feminism is identity politics, identity politics is liberalism and liberalism is counter-revolutionary drivel, period.
>to avoid your feelings getting hurt you had to re-label it women's rights
No, you're just gaslighting to concern troll. However let us hypothetically accept this nonsense; Regardless of what I'm calling it, I'm in support of women, where is the issue?
>The same thing
No, feminism is an ideology hence the 'ism', Women's Rights are an aspect of socialism's reform of capitalism, as part of the socialist ideology eliminating divisions among the people.
>No idea if anyone here even interacts with other people, let alone an actual leftist group.
The fact that you don't know means you're making presumptions.
>Most socialist and communist parties/group would raise eyebrows at some of the takes here.
By most you mean Western 'communist' parties.

I have been active for a long time, and your denigrating attitude is reminiscent of whte-saviour types I've met who have consistently derailed activism with liberal whining. Speaking of derailed; this entire debate is a complete and utter derail, it has little-no relevance to the thread topic and is just idpol. I'd say take it to the main board but something tells me you were rejected by everyone which is why you're shitting up the alt-boards instead. Go back.

>24197
>You went for the "Why do you need rep? Can't you just like a character for a character?" earlier.
Which has nothing to do with prejudice. I literally provide examples (as have others) of trans representation that isn't tokenistic exploitation pushed by liberal ideologues. Good trans rep exists, and accepting new bad rep only sets an example for making more bad rep.
>no one is saying that … We can still like other characters. Its just nice to see us in media.
The post I reply to literally supports the erasure of a gender non-conforming straight male character because it's 'representation' of trans people, trying to justify the changed representation as good despite it promoting a transphobic narrative. Then accuses people rejecting this (which includes trans people) as being /pol/ for not accepting such rhetoric. More importantly a facet of liberalism is criticizing works for not having representation despite it being irrelevant to the story. If a story is about African tribes or African culture, such as the wonderful Kirikou and the Sorceress, I wouldn't be saying "where's the white rep!?" because it's not relevant to the story nor appropriate for the setting. When Nick Fury was depicted by Samuel Jackson in the Avengers, nobody batted an eye despite being a blonde white guy for decades in the comics, 'cause his racial identity did not change who the character was and because his character wasn't a cardboard cut-out consisting of "I'm black" and that's it, or worse something like Finn from the Star Wars Sequels, where he's depicted as a stereotypical black sideman to the white Mary-Sue, complete with bumbling stupidity. Compare this to Lando Calrissian, a savvy smart guy who is independent, has character flaws but is a stand-up guy in the end and isn't beholden to the main characters like some simpering servant. Django Unchained is wildly popular despite the touchy subject, because his identity is important to the story. This applies to trans people or women or white men or anyone. That's called having standards.
>Issue is rep to you = liberal. Everything you do not like is a liberal.
Fallacious non-argument. Instead of addressing the point, you deflect and accuse
>You've said things many times
Vaguery
>You cannot help but slur and not see anyone else's view point but your own.
Repeating your claims does not make them true. I have provided an argument, you did not.
>How does this show one is transgender? Do transwomen have different hands
You're deliberately misconstruing my words, mashing 2 different sentences. I stated that I won't take your claim at face value without proof. You claimed that 'proof' could be faked, and I cited an example of commonly used proof-posting that can't be faked, usually a hand and a written note, which you have decided to tie together to deliberately misinterpret me.
>You haven't.
I quite literally posted examples.
>Most trans groups already lean left for obvious reasons
Just saying you're leftist doesn't mean anything, most First-Worlders think liberalism is leftist.
>Things you say are opposed by most transwomen
The thing is, I actually provided examples of trans people arguing the points I brought up, so I have real basis to my claims.
>projection much when you spout off the same rhetoric as /pol/?
Projection is when you insert whatever you think onto someone or something else. You project "muh /pol/" onto everyone that has gainsaid you
>I highly doubt it
I don't care, I've done my fair share of combating Nazis IRL and online and I don't need to prove myself to a high-handed Anon screeching childishly at me.
>you whine and bitch about others being rude to you
You started off belligerently and rudely for no reason, which is why it was pointed out. If you behave like an asshole, people return the same coin to you, if you are respectful, people will return the courtesy, and if they don't return it then you have the high-ground as not having resorted to it first.
>You legit did try to make excuses on why rep was bad.
No, I argued that certain depictions are bad because they are garbage representations. By your retarded logic, nazi propaganda depicting representations of Black people and communists as subhumans is good because "they're getting rep!".
>Now you are backpedaling on it
You're delusional.
>minority entitlement
Yes, because you are attempting to use your identity status and its representation as a cudgel to scream down criticism for your bad takes, and I'm calling you out for it. Just because you're obsessed with /pol/ doesn't mean that terms you MAY have heard on there belong to them.
>I guess you are Eastern Euro then or Middle East given what you said?
I will neither confirm nor deny, as it is irrelevant, which is my point and why I am being vague about MY identity.
>you should realize then what you said that rep would be better
The fuck are you talking about?
>impossible to deny that most media especially in gaming has been about cishet white men
No it isn't because your takes are ENTIRELY American-Centric, you are literally the encapsulation of entitled First-Worlder, ignorant of culture outside your limited Western Sphere. Material Analysis is literally a foundation of Marxist analysis; Straight white people are the majority of populations in the Western Hemisphere for a long time, ergo media made in such an environment will be largely with such characters relative to population, it's the Superstructure reflection the material, socio-economic base. In Japan most characters and media are Japan or Asian-Centric, reflecting their population.
>OP is talking about not just futa but the very real thing that a lot of transphobes who fetishize transwomen but hurt their rights IRL
For the love of Marx proof-read your sentences. OP is specifically claiming trans people being excluded from a niche fetish, and their proof is people arguing about definitions and a Japanese art-book on the word futanari that specifies that it is only speaking of fiction, not real people.
>Like how a lot of conservative areas have a lot of searches for transporn
That's not what OP said and has already been addressed. >>24016
>how a lot of fascists have yellow fevfer but oppose minority rights
And as I and others pointed out, not only are they a minority of people indulging in that fetish, but ONLY fascists and liberals make it into a racial thing, because the large majority of people aren't looking at a Japanese woman fucking a white guy and thinking about Korean supremacy or White supremacy, it's why Bleached and Blacked fags are universally hated by other people, including 4chan.
In short nobody is politicizing these fetishes except a minority of irrelevant people complaining over something inconsequential to real life and the material world.
>socialist parties then and even now still identify as feminist
Funny, considering how examples have been given by several people of socialists including many women and Women's Rights activists specifically REJECT feminism.
>ou want to try and re-brand your conservativism as left wing
Just because you repeat your unfounded claims, does not make them real.
>Transwomen do not like being called a trap
If they do or don't is irrelevant because it's a term for anime characters, not real people, arising as an early 2000s imageboard joke referencing the Image Macro of Admiral Akbar calling out a trap, super-imposed onto an anime cross-dresser like Haku, this was long before /pol/ took over 4chan and even /pol/ doesn't use it in that context and uses any other number of slurs. The entire spiel of /pol/yps are about 'passing' which contradicts the point of the word trap to begin with.
>Transwomen who are pre-op or even non-op still do not like to be called a trap.
You're misunderstanding the point - the fictional character is initially seen as a girly boy, hence labelled a trap. Their being dysphoric comes up later. If they were stated as trans from the beginning, the label trap wouldn't be used in the first place, it has literally nothing to do with calling real trans people that and is a visual interpretation of a character to those that do not know the story.
>Weeb brain
<Saying this on a LITERAL /anime/ board
This board is for talking about anime and Japan/Asia, so yeah terminology used within a fiction-consuming is the fitting context.
>A lot of trans spaces do not want to be called trap
Non-sequitur conflating real life and fiction, again.
I repeat for idiots: Trap is inherently NOT a slur and was never intended as one. The word TRAP has been in the anime community for decades, long before the online trend of twisting words to mean things they don’t for the sake of political clout. Its always been a word to describe male anime characters who are either feminine (they look girly), and end up being mistaken for the wrong gender or bishie's who crossdress.
>The issue is when you use it against the groups those slurs are used against.
Which I'm not. You are deliberately misrepresenting what I'm saying.
>You really are a newfag.
<N-no u!
Pathetic, you're accusing me of slur-usage while technically also using a slur. If you are trans that means you aren't a Cis-homosexual meaning by YOUR argumentative logic you have no more right to use the word "fag" than I do. But you use it anyway because you KNOW that the usage of the word has a different associative meaning on image-boards compared to real life.
>you really do sound like a chinletdy and conservative with the whole "Oh now I cannot use bad words?"
No retard, just because you say it is, does not make it so. It's an anonymous imageboard meant for casual, largely unfiltered posting called Leftist Politically INCORRECT. If you weren't a new you'd know that actual slurs have been filtered here for years and only as a result of /pol/ raids, as a method of making fun of them, such as when the chinlet meme was posted onto /pol/ from Kohlchan with the post claiming it was from leftypol, sparking a raid that ended up with /pol/ seething impotently.
>This is still a website and board for people who are politically minded.
Site, yes. Board, no. The prime purpose of this board is not politics and politics about real life not relevant to Japan and/or anime belongs on the main-board or siberia and for the same reasons, anime and hobby posts do not belong on /leftypol/ even if the discussion involves politics.
>Even other threads here have talked about the politics of such things like Spy X Family
Yes, because that's politics related to an ANIME and even the OP of this thread is debating a fetish originating from Japanese terminology featured in anime and hentai. The topic of feminism brought up is all but irrelevant to the subject.

>But whatever makes you happy to jerk it to dickgirls anon. You can still do that.
Salute, I will.

>>24198
>He didn't not ascribe women to their own class; He materially analyzed the paths of women's oppression, demonstrating it as a product of the economic, political, and social structures of capitalism. This analysis is based entirely on the 19th Century system of predatory capitalism, which changed with the turn of the century due to workers movements of Men AND Women rising up against corporate oppression despite things like the Police Raids and Pinkertons. This, along with the rise of the USSR, is what pushed capitalism to develop into the social-democrat welfare-capitalist system we have today, as capitalists took rational decisions to change the system and defuse the acceleration.
Acceleration is a meme. Regardless, Marx was a feminist. Did see us (femanon here) as an oppressed class. Going as far as to say social progress can be judged by the role and value of women in society.
>They did not called themselves feminists and rejected it outright.
Rosa Luemborg and Elizabeth Gurley Flynn are both feminist and both saw themselves as feminist. Angela Davis is still pretty radical. People you personally dislike are not liberal.
>No it's not, it's literally a part of over-throwing the capitalist system and eliminating class.
>Vague non-argument. There are bad people in any ideology for any number of reasons. As for "male dominated focus" you're just conjuring up a vague, ill-defined boogie-man of whom you have little to no actual examples of to demonstrate.
People on this very thread right now. Just being a socialist does not mean you are instantly not going to be sexist. A lot of men even in socialist movements can still be very much sexist. Even you right now are itching at that. Since you are very dismissive to outright afraid to call it that. One reason women (and other minorities but that is besides the point) may join socialist movements is that they want equal rights. That they are part of the oppressed. If you want an example though its more so based on race. The South African communist party spoke a lot about worker's rights. Supported Unions. But they only did so for white south Africans. It got so bad the USSR had to tell them to knock it off and try and pressure them to give up the white-centric view of the party. As for male dominated its a trend I see a bit here on leftypol where men get a little fragile when it comes to hearing about issues women face or have issues in some socialist movements that are supposed to be protecting us. If you want a historical example that is with women: Beria. I mean just Beria. That whole shitshow was trash. Again just being socialist or even living under a socialist state does not make misogny or violence against women disappear.
>Fucking where? You sound like a /pol/fag.
Communist Party of France, Communist party of USA. Communist Party of Great Britain, German KPD, German SED.., Are you like high? Each socialist and communist movement considered them self and still see them self as feminist? I got no idea where you are from or your experiences but if you ask any self identified socialist or the offical party line they will say they are feminist. They're not going to make some retarded grab and reach be like "Eerrrrm askhully we support women's rights which is different from feminist."
>No anon, most people just don't appreciate some rando white-knight on a high-horse making moral-fag judgement calls about others without knowing them and accusing them of being Nazis or other such terminology based on the fact that they aren't shilling identity politics.
You are interpreting ID-politics wrong. The point of identity politics was that the left was against oppression Olympics. I.E that someone is more oppressed due to a certain traits or social things like saying blacks have it worse then say LGBT or LGBT have it worse then women. It does not mean to outright ignore the concerns of those people who do face oppression. Even this is rather well, ironically knee jerk and in the literal sense reactionary. There are concerns that I have as a women toward some men in socialist movements that do not seem to actually care about women and only seek to expand their own power.
>I have not seen a single speech of hers wherein she described herself as a feminist. I may have missed a quote perhaps, but I've read a lot of her works and do not recall such. If anything Ms.Flynn adamantly focused on the WORKING class.
Yeah cause she was a communist. This may surprise you but there are various forms of feminism that can exist. Flynn wrote for the feminist column of the CPUSA. Identified as a feminist and often wrote on female centric issues. Yes she did focus on the working class but she also focused on issues that pertain to women. The issue I have with you is your tone makes it sound like focusing on working class issues and focusing on issues that females as a group face are both exclusive. What are you on?
>No, Women's Rights is what was and is needed, feminism is an ideology, an ideology that distracts from the real problems and tokenizes women's issues, serving Capitalism and the furthered oppression of women, but of course if those women aren't in the USA they don't matter, right?
What are you on? Why do you make such jumping and reaching points. The women in places like Iran, Syria, PAlestine matter. As do the women in Russia, sWede, Belarus. The ones in Argentina and Chile. Since we're socialist. We care about people of the world and want a better future for all. Unironically what is wrong with you? What are you smoking? Feminism is still tied to Marxism and there are still Marxist feminists. Where the fuck did the U.S come into this?
>Just take off your mask and screech "Class Reductionist" I know you want to. Also nobody here uses egalitarian like that, you fucking GLOW
Tell tale heart. Was not even on my mind. I do not think you are one. I still think you feel women's issues are important. I just think you have a bit of autism and make leaps and jumps in logic. Anyway what I was referring to is there are some people who try to say they are not a feminist but are an egalitarian. Also your name has glow in the name.
>This is leftypol, lengthy discussion is the norm, and you're not exactly posting small either.
Mine's becoming big to match your posts and your schizo ramblings.
>It's not a 'meme' it's a fact. Feminism is identity politics, identity politics is liberalism and liberalism is counter-revolutionary drivel, period.
By this logic Marx was a liberal. He cared about the working class but Marx and Engles both were concerned with things like racism, colonialism. By this logic flynn was doing identity politics when she wrote about women's issues and issues that deal with women. Lenin was a liberal since he made overatures to the various ethnic groups under the Russian Empire.
>No, you're just gaslighting to concern troll. However let us hypothetically accept this nonsense; Regardless of what I'm calling it, I'm in support of women, where is the issue?
The issue is will you actually listen to us? You seem to literally be reactionary as bringing up issues women face makes you hurt. Will you listen to us about issues we face? About things that happen? Since there are special problems that women face across socieites.
>By most you mean Western 'communist' parties.
>I have been active for a long time, and your denigrating attitude is reminiscent of whte-saviour types I've met who have consistently derailed activism with liberal whining. Speaking of derailed; this entire debate is a complete and utter derail, it has little-no relevance to the thread topic and is just idpol. I'd say take it to the main board but something tells me you were rejected by everyone which is why you're shitting up the alt-boards instead. Go back.
So Eastern communist parties are better or? Is it only if you follow your specific brand of it? I have no idea what you are talking about white savior types (ironically identity politics LMAO). I don't think you actually understand socialism or even women's rights. You knee jerk rather violently and then you out of no where add the U.S or le west ino here randomly.

>>24209
being anti-sexist and being feminist are different things. it's not like people who opposed sexism didn't exist before fourier invented the term.

>>24210
This is true. However socialists still called themselves and identified themselves as feminist. They did not really have the mindset of 21st century basement-dwellers that have knee-jerk reactions to the term. Marx and Engels, Luxembourg and Flynn saw themselves as feminist. Not just as mere anti-sexist since women had important struggles to be focused on.

>>24209
Reading through this I am forced to make another 2 part reply. Before that however: Your post has utterly nothing to do with anime or the thread subject at this point, so it's derailing. Please make a thread in >>>/leftypol/ or >>>/siberia/ if you wish to pursue such a debate. I will admit that I initially considered you a bad-faith actor, hence my initial negativity. I read your posts, slept on it and re-read them before answering so as to properly respond, but as I said, please make a thread for this topic, rather than just talking to me and the occasional denizen of this board, Verstehn?

I'm no ignoramus when it comes to women's rights and give examples supporting my argument. Many of your examples have been broad stroke, for example taking the name "Communist Party" uncritically at face value. The Nazis also called themselves (National) Socialist, yet the privatized socio-economic structure and xenophobic political ideology directly contradicts the very foundation of socialist thought,. People like Herbert Marcuse and Gloria Steinem (CIA assets) promoted an idea that is often collectively called "Cultural Marxism" (which is the origin of 2nd Wave Feminist ideology) yet it directly contradicts ACTUAL Marxist thought.
>Communist Party of France, Communist party of USA. Communist Party of Great Britain, German KPD, German SED
<Western liberals using the corpse of communist parties.
I knew you'd cite that lol. CPUSA hasn't been really communist in decades, there's been dozens of threads on leftypol criticizing and calling out toxicity, double-standards and betrayal of communist ideology by the parties you mention, including my own experience. You've literally proved my point with parties that sold out to capitalism's social-democracy and liberalism. One need only look at the World Conference on Women, 1975, to see the position of actual communists in the Soviet Bloc, Cuba China or Yugoslavia. All of them supported women's rights, gave women the ability to freely make choices without pressuring them into work or specific roles, and all of them had laws specifically protecting women from issues that only concerned women. They all rightly celebrated women as important parts of society BUT they did not ascribe to themselves the term FEMINIST, because the idea of FEMINISM is an IDEOLOGY PRIORITIZING WOMEN OVER ALL, and that inherently goes against the cornerstone of Socialist emancipation being for PROLETARIANS of any identity.
>“Acceptance or non-acceptance of the class struggle in socialism is a question of principle, it is a line of demarcation between Marxist-Leninists and revisionists, between revolutionaries and betrayers of the revolution. Any deviation from the class struggle has fatal consequences for the future of socialism” - Enver Hoxha, Selected Works Vol. IV, p. 165, “Report to the 5th Congress”
The liberal left dominates supposed communist parties because of the Nazi-esque purging of actual socialism in the West. The Red Scares and Operation Gladio are comparable to Kristallnacht and the propaganda of the Third Reich, with its orchestrators (Allen Dulles and the CIA) literally supporting the Nazis before the war and saving many from tribunal after, using them to form the nucleus of NATO's military-political strategy. The post-war purges were simply more roundabout. They set up perjury traps. They made oaths of loyalty compulsory for large swaths of the population, who swore they did not support overthrowing the States by force or violence. Then they prosecuted them for perjury if they had partied with members of the CPUSA on the theory that the CPUSA advocated overthrowing the States by force or violence. After this gutting of the leadership, COINTEL PRO and further arrests and assassinations of socialist leaders (such as MLK) and the injection of Cultural Marxism as an ideology through the CIA think-tank of The Frankfurt School, to deliberately undermine communist movements with populist and identity based criticism of socialist movements and countries; appeaking to sex, race, ethnicity and religion as methods of essentially promoting reactionary views with supposed leftism. It's what led to the "Socialism hasn't been tried yet" meme referring to the USSR and China.

>They're not going to make some retarded grab and reach be like "Eerrrrm askhully we support women's rights which is different from feminist."
And that's populism, which is a path to fascism and is only superficially similar to socialism.
>I.E that someone is more oppressed due to a certain traits or social things like saying blacks have it worse then say LGBT or LGBT have it worse then women. It does not mean to outright ignore the concerns of those people who do face oppression.
That's what I've been saying. You may think I'm being pedantic but correct terminology is important to socio-economic and political literacy and comprehension as they change the context of everything. THAT is why I refer to fighting for Women as a socialist as Women's Rights rather than Feminism. Feminism as a term is quite anglo-centric in its usage. You later mention Chile and Iran. In those countries they call themselves Women's Liberation Movements or Women's Rights Movements (Mujeres Libres for example) and English translators have often disregarded the linguistic differences and simply call it feminism. I recall an article translation in The Guardian from years back about Iranian socialist women's movements. The actual movement called itself (if I recall correctly) Unity of Free Women or something like that, translated from the local language, but the article simply called them feminists, even though they did not call themselves that.

>Flynn wrote for the feminist column of the CPUSA
Like I said, I may be wrong and missed that, there's many socialist female leaders and as a single person I missed that when reading her works, as I focused on their content rather than where it was published (CPUSA articles on marxists.org do not cite what columns for example). Within her works I recall reading "feminist" and "feminism" do not come up, or come up so rarely as to not crop up commonly. She specifically and often emphasized "proletarian women" or "working women" and so on.
>she did focus on the working class but she also focused on issues that pertain to women.
I didn't contest that. Note that her analyses may have been issues for women, but always through the lens of material, class-based analysis, just as Marx did.
>The issue I have with you is your tone makes it sound like focusing on working class issues and focusing on issues that females as a group face are both exclusive
Well then you've utterly misread me; I am arguing the exact opposite, and my opposition to feminism as an ideology is hinged on the fact that feminism tends to try and make these things exclusive.

>>24209
>>24212
>Acceleration is a meme
Have you ever read a history of labour, unions and strikes in the USA prior to WW2 Or of Russia for that matter? FDR literally states verbatim that by implementing social-democratic policies, he averted the collapse of capitalism in the USA when riots and revolts were rising up constantly before.
>Regardless, Marx was a feminist
<Ignores the fact that he explicitly rejected identity based ideology which includes feminism, and had Victoria Woodhull kicked for it
>see us (femanon here) as an oppressed class
Stop using the word 'class' that's not what a class is, I already addressed this
>oing as far as to say social progress can be judged by the role and value of women in society.
He's correct; that's a Women's Rights position, which is not endemic to feminism, so it's not proof of him being a feminist.
>Rosa Luemborg
>both feminist and both saw themselves as feminist
If you're going to cite examples of female socialists, you have the duty of spelling their names right. And again Luxemburg to my knowledge did not call herself feminist in any of the works I could find and Luxemburg did not give women's rights special focus in her written works, it's actually a criticism of her I've seen by liberals; that she didn't emphasize feminism - see The Proletarian Woman (March 8th, 1914) - People like Emma Ihrer also did not call themselves Feminist as far as I am aware. If I am wrong and they called themselves feminist, give me proof as you did with Flynn, because all of these women were vocal critics of ideologies focusing on women as an identity rather than as a part of the greater Class Struggle. Also see Zetkin's "Only in Conjunction With the Proletarian Woman Will Socialism Be Victorious" (1896)
>Angela Davis is still pretty radica
Radical liberalism is still liberalism
>People you personally dislike are not liberal
People and movements that espouse liberal ideology or talking points are liberal, hence I call them that, any tolerance for it leads to sectarian divisions based on identity, fracturing the people into identity infighting
>People on this very thread right now.
That's not demonstrative, you're just claiming this because people ITT correctly called feminism out for being a liberal ideology based on identity politics rather than Class, which is in direct contradiction with socialist theory. Saying this is not conservative, or right-wing or whatever boogie-man buzz-word you may use henceforth.
>A lot of men even in socialist movements can still be very much sexist.
Vague generalizations like this are meaningless. A lot of women even in socialist movements are also sexist and? The word "a lot" is not a concrete number or even a rough statistic, unless you have PROOF that sexism is somehow a rampant part of socialist groups, then you really have no right to make such broad accusations.
>One reason women (and other minorities but that is besides the point) may join socialist movements is that they want equal rights.
1) Women are not a minority; "Women hold up half the sky" is an oft-cited quote that both emphasizes their importance and the fact that women are more or less 1/2 of any population, 50% is not a minority, or that makes men minorities too by that logic.
2) Because socialism provides equality through the fact that racial or sexual divisions are inherently contrary to socialist ideology, only class divisions exist, to be dismantled.
>It got so bad the USSR had to tell them to knock it off and try and pressure them to give up the white-centric view of the party.
Yes, because racial divisions are contrary to socialist ideology by default, it's the same reason Feminist movements are also contrary to socialist movements as they have a women-centric view (at best, at worst you get SCUM Manifesto crap with its fascistic messages).
>I see a bit here on leftypol where men get a little fragile when it comes to hearing about issues women face or have issues in some socialist movements that are supposed to be protecting us.
I have been on leftypol for a LONG time and been active for over a decade and both IRL and here the number of people I've seen that could legitimately be called 'fragile' can be counted on my fingers. Just 'cause women lacked rights a century ago, doesn't mean people should simply passively allow liberals to brow-beat them based on sex, because that's also sexism.

>Beria. I mean just Beria. That whole shitshow was trash
The fuck do you mean by that? If you are about to bring up the LITERAL Nazi Myth about Beria murdering women and kidnapping girls then let me stop you there. That is literally one of the most well-known examples of anti-communist fear-mongering out there, along with the rapist mongoloid hordes rhetoric that has been the cornerstone of Western depictions of the USSR/Russia. I really need to dig up my old 8ch effortposts debunking those myths and post it in /edu/ SMH.

>The women in places like Iran, Syria, PAlestine matter. As do the women in Russia, sWede, Belarus. The ones in Argentina and Chile.
At what point did I state that they do not matter? I said no such thing.
>You seem to literally be reactionary as bringing up issues women face makes you hurt
That's not what the term reactionary means, I am not promoting a 'return' to status quo regarding women's rights, I am rejecting identarian ideology as being against socialism.
>Marx and Engles both were concerned with things like racism, colonialism… Lenin was a liberal since he made overatures to the various ethnic groups under the Russian Empire.
You're misrepresenting what I'm saying and how they approached those things. Socialist Emancipation isn't refusing to acknowledge such issues, but to understand that the material, socio-economic ways it happens. Colonialism didn't arise just because Europeans hated black people instinctively, it was the result of material, rational self-interest of the ruling class dictating a socio-economic system. Racism was the justification fed to the masses and believed in because of the socio-economic environment, but not the reason it happened. In layman's terms, socialism understands the real problems are a result of material conditions dictating the environment that society developed into in a feedback loop, but a feedback loop that results in rising proletarian discontent as the internal contradictions become more apparent with Late-Stage Capitalist decay. That's what Marx, Lenin, Flynn and others write about; seeing these issues of oppression as part of greater class oppression, not separate as feminism does. That's also what differentiated Martin Luther King and the Black Panthers from most modern black rights activists like BLM, which is no accident, as the FBI and CIA actively repressed Black leadership, created the Ghetto-system and promoted the formation of modern cartels and gangs, pushing harmful things like drug use/selling and "Thug Culture" while taking away voices of criticism in violent manner which is why a narrative of blaming, to quote, "All White People" has come about. Gary Webb's Dark Alliance series details this well. It is a complicated issue that is hard to untangle, as emotions run high in these things, and with the CIA's early efforts, the liberal misinformation on these topics has become self-perpetuating.
>Will you listen to us about issues we face? About things that happen? Since there are special problems that women face across socieites.
Yes, I'm not at all suggesting socialists ignore the problems of women, but that such movements must be critically supported and viewed through material analysis, not Culture War rubbish. That's why things like GamerGate are fucking rubbish, both sides are retarded and splitting hairs on matters of superstructure when the problem lies in the system itself, it's why rhetoric about representation should be approached carefully and without rushing to support without understanding.
>Tell tale heart. Was not even on my mind.
As I said at the beginning of my post I initially thought you were posting in ill-faith, I've had far too many such experiences IRL and on this site, so I attempted to head-off fallacies that liberals and rightoids use to gaslight and concern troll, so I suppose I jumped the gun.
>your name has glow in the name.
LOL fair enough
>So Eastern communist parties are better or?
YES. The Indian Bolshevik Party is a wonderful example.
>I have no idea what you are talking about white savior types (ironically identity politics
White Saviour is in reference to middle-class white liberals that white-knight for minorities while ignoring what members of those minorities have to say on the topic of the subject. An example would be many such people trying to promote a focus on defending Islam and their believers, while ignoring the criticisms of Islam by Muslims and uncritically supporting its position. Socialists don't do that. We support Iran critically because while it is a force of Anti-Imperialism against the Western Globalist Hegemon, it is also a theocracy with social problems and hierarchies. When Stalin spoke in defense of Islam, he did it with the caveat that laws of the Soviet Union forbade reactionary religious practices and beliefs, essentially acting as a tool of reformation, women could not forced to wear head-gowns, they could not have their right to vote, to speak or to make independent decision restricted by any religious rhetoric. In the same sense is the uncritical support of Israel by some people as part of opposing anti-semitism because bad faith actors misconstrue opposition to Zionism as an attack on all Jews, and this is not incidental, it's an idea that was promoted since before Israel was created as a way to create conflict on the ground.

>>24199
>The post I reply to literally supports the erasure of a gender non-conforming straight male character because it's 'representation' of trans people,
uygha which characters? Where are your femboys being transed? You care more about western slop then westerners for being supposedly from the East.
>You're deliberately misconstruing my words, mashing 2 different sentences. I stated that I won't take your claim at face value without proof. You claimed that 'proof' could be faked, and I cited an example of commonly used proof-posting that can't be faked, usually a hand and a written note, which you have decided to tie together to deliberately misinterpret me.
How does one show they are trans though? Its not an attempt to misinterpert you. You get really butthurt and sneedy over the smallest things sometimes.
>I quite literally posted examples.
You haven't
>Repeating your claims does not make them true. I have provided an argument, you did not.
You used the word trap which is a slur. People think its a slur. Do not use the word. Simple as.
>Just saying you're leftist doesn't mean anything, most First-Worlders think liberalism is leftist.
Most of them are autistically ancom or some other variant and maybe a sprinkling of ML. Mostly since the left is the only place that kinda sorta tolerates trans people but its still not the best sometimes tbqh.
>I don't care, I've done my fair share of combating Nazis IRL and online and I don't need to prove myself to a high-handed Anon screeching childishly at me.
You literally wanted prove of me being trans. Lol. Now you're scared to show proof? You're just same angry dude in his basement.
>You started off belligerently and rudely for no reason, which is why it was pointed out. If you behave like an asshole, people return the same coin to you, if you are respectful, people will return the courtesy, and if they don't return it then you have the high-ground as not having resorted to it first.
Even aside from me you are rude to others first in this thread and even others. Then you get super butthurt. Especially for being on a chan.
>No, I argued that certain depictions are bad because they are garbage representations. By your retarded logic, nazi propaganda depicting representations of Black people and communists as subhumans is good because "they're getting rep!".
That's a bit of a stretch to compare cartoons you are angry at.Nazi propaganda. Take your meds grandpa.
>You're delusional.
Not an argument as you say. You are backpedaling though.
>Yes, because you are attempting to use your identity status and its representation as a cudgel to scream down criticism for your bad takes,
That is not what I am doing though. I am trying to however give my viewpoint as the group being discussed. For what its worth at that. You happen to very strongly disagree. On the other hand again minority entitlement does again sound like a conservative term and take.
>No it isn't because your takes are ENTIRELY American-Centric, you are literally the encapsulation of entitled First-Worlder, ignorant of culture outside your limited Western Sphere. Material Analysis is literally a foundation of Marxist analysis; Straight white people are the majority of populations in the Western Hemisphere for a long time, ergo media made in such an environment will be largely with such characters relative to population, it's the Superstructure reflection the material, socio-economic base.
<Bro its just the majority population?
<Bro like why do you need rep? Can't you enjoy playing as white guy number 4569?
So you are butthurt at minorities in your vidya? You can dress it up but you seem to like this American centric first worldism since it seems to effect you given how butthurt you get over it. Since your reaction to "I am happy that creators want to represent people more" is to go
<entitled piece of shit! This is a western centric thing.
You really do just sound like those chinlets who go "There was a trans or a black in my game. The west has fallen." or I guess in your case "It did a thing I dislike and I admit I am half a world away from it an engage in it still"
>For the love of Marx proof-read your sentences. OP is specifically claiming trans people being excluded from a niche fetish, and their proof is people arguing about definitions and a Japanese art-book on the word futanari that specifies that it is only speaking of fiction, not real people.
Or the very real examples I gave? Again why I brought experiences of how it goes? Again why I even brought up my minority status since its a thing that effects me.
>Funny, considering how examples have been given by several people of socialists including many women and Women's Rights activists specifically REJECT feminism.
You're having a seperate talk with another dude about that so this is best left to there.
>If they do or don't is irrelevant because it's a term for anime characters, not real people, arising as an early 2000s imageboard joke referencing the Image Macro of Admiral Akbar calling out a trap, super-imposed onto an anime cross-dresser like Haku, this was long before /pol/ took over 4chan and even /pol/ doesn't use it in that context and uses any other number of slurs. The entire spiel of /pol/yps are about 'passing' which contradicts the point of the word trap to begin with.
Its not irreverent. If a group of people are trying to tell you about an issue and then you hand wave them off, you are the sociopath.
>And as I and others pointed out, not only are they a minority of people indulging in that fetish, but ONLY fascists and liberals make it into a racial thing, because the large majority of people aren't looking at a Japanese woman fucking a white guy and thinking about Korean supremacy or White supremacy, it's why Bleached and Blacked fags are universally hated by other people, including 4chan.
In short nobody is politicizing these fetishes except a minority of irrelevant people complaining over something inconsequential to real life and the material world.
That wasn't the point that OP was making however. OP was talking about fetishization, dehumanization, and even alienation and the contradiction some right wingers have.
>You're misunderstanding the point - the fictional character is initially seen as a girly boy, hence labelled a trap.
She's not though. She's just a trans girl. That shitshow with Lily even showed the issue with the term trap and it being used against even a fictional trans girl.
>Non-sequitur conflating real life and fiction, again.
Me and other transwomen have been called trap. As much as you stamp your feet about this issue it is a thing that happens. Just since you plug your ears and pretend you cannot hear it does not make it go away. Its also been used in trans panic. Next one chinletdy.
>Pathetic, you're accusing me of slur-usage while technically also using a slur. If you are trans that means you aren't a Cis-homosexual meaning by YOUR argumentative logic you have no more right to use the word "fag" than I do.
Fag is also used against transwomen. Regardless you seem to lack reading comprehension. above I made a point that using a slur in and of itself is not the issue. ITs how you use it. I was saying that trap was bad since you used it on Lily. I explained why its bad and why they do not want it to be used. You're really grasping at straws now. Calm down and chill my dude.
>No retard, just because you say it is, does not make it so. It's an anonymous imageboard meant for casual, largely unfiltered posting called Leftist Politically INCORRECT.
Then why did you stamp your feet and throw a hissy fit acting like people were policing your language when I was trying to tell you why a certain word could be taken as a slur?

>>24213
I know the guy who made that OP post. ITs Partylotso9s on Deviantart. Long time communist there. He also makes these about supporting the feminist movement.
\>Have you ever read a history of labour, unions and strikes in the USA prior to WW2 Or of Russia for that matter? FDR literally states verbatim that by implementing social-democratic policies, he averted the collapse of capitalism in the USA when riots and revolts were rising up constantly before.
So you're butthurt that the social democrats do your job better then you? uyghur you live in a basement most likely and have enough time to debate other losers myself included on an anime image board. Your ass is not going to lead or participate in any revolution.
>Stop using the word 'class' that's not what a class is, I already addressed this
It is. That is what the definition is. There are many classes in society and what defines one social order and place on the ladder.
>The fuck do you mean by that? If you are about to bring up the LITERAL Nazi Myth about Beria murdering women and kidnapping girls then let me stop you there. That is literally one of the most well-known examples of anti-communist fear-mongering out there, along with the rapist mongoloid hordes rhetoric that has been the cornerstone of Western depictions of the USSR/Russia. I really need to dig up my old 8ch effortposts debunking those myths and post it in /edu/ SMH.
You're actually fucking retarded. The Nazi myth started by Kruschev and the USSR? The thing he got tried for? The thing Stalin himself knew and did not even want. uygha forget what the social democrats did for the movement. The moment your cheet breathed mouth opens to try and defend "Ummm akshully he was not a rapist. He was just policing those women like a good boy?" will make women skeeved at you.
>1) Women are not a minority; "Women hold up half the sky" is an oft-cited quote that both emphasizes their importance and the fact that women are more or less 1/2 of any population, 50% is not a minority, or that makes men minorities too by that logic.
2) Because socialism provides equality through the fact that racial or sexual divisions are inherently contrary to socialist ideology, only class divisions exist, to be dismantled.
Again the issue is presuming. You yourself are acting pretty chinletdy on this issue.
>If you're going to cite examples of female socialists, you have the duty of spelling their names right. And again Luxemburg to my knowledge did not call herself feminist in any of the works I could find and Luxemburg did not give women's rights special focus in her written works, it's actually a criticism of her I've seen by liberals; that she didn't emphasize feminism - see The Proletarian Woman (March 8th, 1914) - People like Emma Ihrer also did not call themselves Feminist as far as I am aware. If I am wrong and they called themselves feminist, give me proof as you did with Flynn, because all of these women were vocal critics of ideologies focusing on women as an identity rather than as a part of the greater Class Struggle. Also see Zetkin's "Only in Conjunction With the Proletarian Woman Will Socialism Be Victorious" (1896)
I like how you glossed over the issue with Flynn. Since before it was "Flynn was such a queen and would never." then I showed the very obvious fact that ofc the woman who was a socialist spoke about female issues. There are issues that directly impact women compared to men. These things are going to crop up in socialist movement DUE to your ideology.
>Vague generalizations like this are meaningless. A lot of women even in socialist movements are also sexist and? The word "a lot" is not a concrete number or even a rough statistic, unless you have PROOF that sexism is somehow a rampant part of socialist groups, then you really have no right to make such broad accusations.
You are an example of this so far. Even a lot of these boards are examples of how dismissive some people can be when people want to talk about these issues. Trying to defend Beria is one of those.
>Yes, because racial divisions are contrary to socialist ideology by default, it's the same reason Feminist movements are also contrary to socialist movements as they have a women-centric view (at best, at worst you get SCUM Manifesto crap with its fascistic messages).
On that we can agree with. I can admit feminism itself is varied. Though my issue with that is that feminism is about the quality of women to men and bringing up female issues that are often overlooked due to patriarchy.
>I have been on leftypol for a LONG time and been active for over a decade and both IRL and here the number of people I've seen that could legitimately be called 'fragile' can be counted on my fingers. Just 'cause women lacked rights a century ago, doesn't mean people should simply passively allow liberals to brow-beat them based on sex, because that's also sexism.
This is sorta what I mean. No one is saying to let you brow beat them. This is for discussion afterall. However you ironically knee jerking and being reactionary that. "I don't have to listen to women. They are stinky and liberal" Is hilarious a bit.
>As I said at the beginning of my post I initially thought you were posting in ill-faith, I've had far too many such experiences IRL and on this site, so I attempted to head-off fallacies that liberals and rightoids use to gaslight and concern troll, so I suppose I jumped the gun.
That's okay. I am glad we do have these moments of being lucid in the middle.
>YES. The Indian Bolshevik Party is a wonderful example.
That just seems a bit more biased of who is the true and pure communist not like those stinky insertothersocialistparty. Which I know is a reoccurring thing with socialists to always fight each other. Also looking into that party Its barely relevant unless you meant some other party with the same name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolshevik_Party_of_India

>White Saviour is in reference to middle-class white liberals that white-knight for minorities while ignoring what members of those minorities have to say on the topic of the subject. An example would be many such people trying to promote a focus on defending Islam and their believers, while ignoring the criticisms of Islam by Muslims and uncritically

And you know what. We agree. Shocking I know. My issue is that the opposite is true too. That some socialist do have a focus on politics that only effect the majority population and forget to help the people they are claiming to fight for.
>We support Iran critically because while it is a force of Anti-Imperialism against the Western Globalist Hegemon, it is also a theocracy with social problems and hierarchies.
Critical support is always dumb tbh. I'm just gonna flat out and say it for as much as you bitch about the CIA like supporting the Taliban. This is just the exact same shit.
<Man that CIA is ass for supporting the Taliban
<Anyway I am now going to support my theocracy since its not aligned with the other power I hate. Surely siding with someone that hates my worldview will agree with me.
Fair is far.
>When Stalin spoke in defense of Islam
NEver heard of this and would like to read it since this is an L on his part.

how did this threat start by discussing futa and end up discussing the bolshevik party of india

>>24216
Because liberals can't help derailing with non-sequitur garbage.

>24214
>uygha which characters?
It's stated several times, Use CTRL + F because I'm not spoonfeeding you something I explained in detail with clear terminology. I'm tired of it.
>You care more about western slop then westerners for being supposedly from the East.
You're mentally ill. How are Japanese anime "Western slop for Westerners"? It's primary demographic is JAPAN, always has been.
>How does one show they are trans though?
The same way you depict any sex or sexuality - relative to the story being told. If it's irrelevant to the story it doesn't matter, if it is then you depict it as is important to the story, same as gay relationships or anything else for that matter.
>Its not an attempt to misinterpert you.
<You get really butthurt and sneedy over the smallest things
Uhuh, sure.
>You haven't
It's LITERALLY in this thread multiple times; links, images, pdfs and explained examples. You are outright fucking denying actual reality at this point. Take medication and get help, you are genuinely insane.
>You used the word trap which is a slur
Trap isn't a slur, and talking about a word and its meaning is not the same as actively using it. Piss off. Simple as.
>You literally wanted prove of me being trans.
I don't WANT your proof, I stated that if you use a claim of IDENTITY for a topic, then back it up. In the meantime you ignore opinions of other trans people I literally posted and linked to. I only stated that your accusations against me have no proof and I take action, so what you accuse me of does not matter, because I know what I've done. What you're doing is literal COINTEL PRO tactics, dismissing and ignoring proof provided, refusing to provide proof, then demanding impossible proof. You can prove your identity characteristics (race, sex, etc.) without doxxing yourself, it's been done here many, many times, one cannot prove activities because names or similar must be attached to such things to prove one actually did things, not to mention that I'm not recording my actions for clout so I can't exactly post proof of confronting a nazi. Your false equivalencies are insane.
>just same angry dude in his basement.
As I said before; just because you wish it was so, does not make your accusations true.
>Even aside from me you are rude to others first in this thread and even others
<This retard genuinely thinks everyone Tor posting is the same person
And no, you are incorrect, the first post of yours I responded to was a strawman that accused a long, well-explained effort-post of being /pol/ because you didn't actually have an argument and just wanted to concern troll. My other posts to people ITT who, unlike you, weren't bad faith are completely different.
>Then you get super butthurt
You give Cinema projectors a run for their money in terms of your ability to impose unto others your insecurities.
>That's a bit of a stretch to compare cartoons you are angry at.Nazi propaganda
Being obtuse does not take away from my point.
>Not an argument as you say. You are backpedaling though.
There's no argument to make against a foundationless non-argument accusation. At no point did I argue "rep is bad" and I explained so.
>That is not what I am doing
You are, because you brought it up as conversational clout regarding the issue at hand.
>I am trying to however give my viewpoint as the group being discussed.
Now who's backpedaling. No, you asserted multiple times that either all, or most trans people say X, believe Y and do Z, without a shred of proof other than to just take your word for it.
>minority entitlement does again sound like a conservative term and take.
Because you're terminally online and culture war obsessed.
>Bro its just the majority population?
<What is material analysis of the socio-economic environment relative to Population Demographics?
Read fucking Marx, Read Hegel, Read Engels
>Bro like why do you need rep? Can't you enjoy playing as white guy number 4569?
Strawman argument I never made. You realize you're doing /pol/ a favor by letting them live Rent Free in your head, right?
>So you are butthurt at minorities in your vidya?
I don't play "vidya" you /v/ermin. I replied to the example given with a materialist explanation of why such trends exist and why media has different representation relative to the population demographics of the country involved. Nowhere did I say anything about "rep bad" as you continue to strawman.
>ou can dress it up but you seem to like this American centric first worldism… given how butthurt
You're the one that keeps bringing up burger talking points
>our reaction to "I am happy that creators want to represent people more"
<entitled piece of shit!
I called you entitled, not because of representation, but because most people, trans or not, have bigger concerns than what representation they get in a Japanese cartoon or game, and media development/marketing is based on the majority population of the country its made in/for, because different countries have different demographics and cultures, which you pointedly ignore. The funny part is you're deliberately being vague about what media you're talking about despite blatantly referring to the Bridget shit you brought up, because you KNOW that I specifically explained how that specific example of supposed "trans rep" is fucking transphobic by narrative, and also erases gender non-conforming males, and that trans rep with original characters has existed just fine, with several examples given ITT several times.
>You really do just sound like those chinlets who go "There was a trans or a black in my game. The west has fallen."
I don't. The person to bring up video games was you, when you brought up Bridget and Guilty Gear. Prior to that I did not mention the character. I pointed out that them being trans is a retroactive change that contradicts the story and that other characters in anime and games that are trans did not get the backlash Bridget got, because they were original characters that did not have to change an established character for the sake of cheap tokenism. See >>24048 and take meds.
>"It did a thing I dislike and I admit I am half a world away from it an engage in it still"
The fuck does this even mean? By that metric, why are you engaging in this? Oh right, because you're obsessed.
>Or the very real examples I gave?
You didn't give any fucking examples, you made broad-stroke claims using your identity to speak for other trans people while providing no evidence or specific examples whatsoever.
>Again why I even brought up my minority status since its a thing that effects me
And again, I don't take your claim at face value. I provided examples of several trans people on social media, from America and Japan making their opinion known and having actual accounts, not being anonymous figures behind a computer screen.
>Its not irreverent.
Correct!
>a group of people are trying to tell you about an issue and then you hand wave them off, you are the sociopath.
See this is another broad-stroke argument that is deliberately vague about 'the group' and 'the issue'. Trap is an online weeb term, you know it, I know it, everyone here knows it. It's not used IRL almost ever. Furthermore despite your presentation, trans people are not a homogenous hive-mind and many do not associate the word trap with trans, mostly because the term has NEVER been ABOUT transsexuals real or fictional, and the few people that have misused it to that end, are either ignorant or outliers.
>That wasn't the point that OP was making however. OP was talking about fetishization, dehumanization, and even alienation and the contradiction some right wingers have.
If that's what OP's point was, then why only talk about Futa? Why literally admit its nothing more than culture war nonsense? You're creating excuses for the OP when the OP is obviously pissy because a handful of retards on 4chan talk about the genitalia of a fictional third sex, when even other 4chan autists within the fetish-group don't care about it. OP states clearly "It's about Exclusion" from the futa fetish.They don't say this is about all pornography. Makes no mention of exploitation through pornography, nor condemns fetish and fetishization. You're projecting that onto the OP.
>the contradiction some right wingers have.
And that yes.
>She's just a trans girl.
I agree, but you're missing the point. Lets walk this through with me step by step
1) Lily as a character exists and appears - the viewer sees a male body in female clothing, which is a common anime trope of being a trap.
2) The STORY then goes into Lily being dysphoric and coming to terms with this after her death, thus technically not a trap. BUT here's the catch
3) A casual user who doesn't know the story will still see the character as said fictional slang-term and visually identify them as such which is why they are from a larger point of view considered a trap, even if it isn't correct by the story. I literally have no dog in this fight relative to Lily, I don't care what people call the character, I'm just analyzing the situation as a recent example, and noting that attacking people for misidentifying an untransitioned fictional illustration is ridiculous, especially in porn. It's not being 'used against her' because nobody is using it about the fictional character with ill-intent, and most people aren't aware of the details so that label is what comes up on the tags, that's it. There is no secret conspiracy to call trans people traps in fiction for whatever reason you may conjure.
>Me and other transwomen have been called trap.
Who's stamping their feet; it's a fucking misuse of the terminology. It's like calling a masculine Tomboy, A boy'; the term is being improperly used but it's due to visual reasons.
Not to mention that A) There are far worse and much more commonly used slurs, with actual deliberate meaning. B) Most trans people I've met and those who I specifically searched up online relative to the topic, haven't experienced it, and those that have are more annoyed or don't care about what some random weeb says on the internet which is the healthy attitude to have, why give this shit the time of day?
Look up most trans anime-PFP people on twitter, they talk about traps too, a lot in fact. Even reddit rescinded the ban on the word because many users, including trans members of the anime subreddits complained loudly about it. So again, the term isn't about you, and the few people that do use it in such context aren't even using the term correctly. It's never been a slur, and misuse of words is not what a slur is. If you disliked its usage, sorry, but that's not the same as a slur used with malicious intent.
>since you plug your ears and pretend you cannot hear it does not make it go away.
The irony of your statement here is that it's literally just a word, and not even one like [insert word-filtered slur].
>Fag is also used against transwomen.
Also incorrectly as the terminology relates to a bundle of sticks, which in modern urban mythology, were used to burn homosexuals, hence the association of fag with gays.
>Regardless you seem to lack reading comprehension.
Fucking KEK
>above I made a point that using a slur in and of itself is not the issue
No you didn't, you just kept repeating the same thing about trans not liking being called it, and kept arguing in circles with me because my entire point is that the term isn't about you, just as futanari isn't about you.
>I was saying that trap was bad since you used it on Lily.
And as I explained, I'm not "using" anything, I'm talking about the labels a character is given by the larger anime community. I'm not involved in tagging hentai or fan-art.
>You're really grasping at straws now.
That's not what the phrase means. I was demonstrating the flaws of your argument by using an equivalent counter-example.
>Chill dude
Back at you
>hrow a hissy fit acting like people were policing your language when I was trying to tell you why a certain word could be taken as a slur?
Why did you throw a fit about a slur you KNOW doesn't refer to you? You keep talking past me and ignoring what I'm trying to say. You kept telling me not to use the word at all, and then backpedaled to "not using it about trans people" which I wasn't doing, I was discussing the label GIVEN to the character, not that I'm associating the label with trans people.

>>24217
TBF you were the one who brought up the BPI.

>>24219
>I don't WANT your proof, I stated that if you use a claim of IDENTITY for a topic, then back it up. In the meantime you ignore opinions of other trans people I literally posted and linked to. I only stated that your accusations against me have no proof and I take action,
Who are a minority. Most of the trans community loves those like Bridget and Lily. Even in the thing you linked it misgenders transwomen in the PDF. Calling Hibari-kun "A femboy" It was not written by anyone trans. You also linked reddit too in one of your links. Which in itself is LMAO. Thing is you are talking to a transwomen. You are cis and trying to use those that agree with your worldview (who are still a minoirty. Its like using the one of the good ones argument
>You're mentally ill. How are Japanese anime "Western slop for Westerners"? It's primary demographic is JAPAN, always has been.
You can't read. You've been bitching about all these western brands and series and western stuff this wholetime.
>Trap isn't a slur, and talking about a word and its meaning is not the same as actively using it.
Trap is a slur. You insisiting its not does not make it so.
>And no, you are incorrect, the first post of yours I responded to was a strawman that accused a long,
You keep freaking out all the time.
>Being obtuse does not take away from my point.
Your point was rather stupid. Even you don't think it. To compare trans rep in modern games to Nazi propaganda? Projection.
>As I said before; just because you wish it was so, does not make your accusations true.
You are. No one who fights le Nazis IRL comes to leftypol to post how ebin they are and how the Nazis have totally ben owned. Did everyone clap at the end too?
>There's no argument to make against a foundationless non-argument accusation. At no point did I argue "rep is bad" and I explained so.
You did. In fact you said "Why do you need to be repped? You can just like the cishet characters!" And then when I explained further you started to throw a hissy fit about children's cartoons and anime which is also children's cartoons.
>Now who's backpedaling. No, you asserted multiple times that either all, or most trans people say X, believe Y and do Z, without a shred of proof other than to just take your word for it.
Cause you don't hang around in trans spaces. Most trans do like Bridget. Most trans due lean ancom. You would know this if you actually knew transwomen instead of being in your bubble.
>Read fucking Marx, Read Hegel, Read Engels
Doesn't change what the topic or the argument. The argument is that most characters have been white cishet and male. All I said was I was happy others are getting represented more. You had a hissy fit over it and then tried to justify it by saying "Well that's the majority pop." That was not an argument for it. We were simply talking about that is how its always been that way so its good. You used the conservative argument that minorities need to shut up and just accept ajority population.
>Strawman argument I never made.
You in fact did. You said why do you need rep and can't you just connect with a good character argument.
>You're the one that keeps bringing up burger talking points
Americans live rent free in your head. Take your own advice. Matter of factly you seem to care more about western media and cartoons and kid shit then me tbqh.
>I don't play "vidya" you /v/ermin. I replied to the example given with a materialist explanation of why such trends exist and why media has different representation relative to the population demographics
Making it all the strange why you are so butthurt. You used pretty language to basically said "cishet men need to be the ones repped!"
>I called you entitled, not because of representation, but because most people, trans or not, have bigger concerns than what representation they get in a Japanese cartoon or game, and media development/marketing is based on the majority population of the country its made in/for, because different countries have different demographics and cultures, which you pointedly ignore. The funny part is you're deliberately being vague about what media you're talking about despite blatantly referring to the Bridget shit you brought up, because you KNOW that I specifically explained how that specific example of supposed "trans rep" is fucking transphobic by narrative,
Its not transphobic. The creator of GG himself has said that Bridget is meant to be trans. ITs also not transphobic. Its Bridget discovering herself. No one is forcing her to be trans. In the storyline she comes to it on her own conclusions. no one forces her to be it. The one thing she was forced to be was being forced to crossdress. The only people I hear bitch about Bridget being trans are concern trolling conservatives. Most of the trans community is pro Bridget and have used her as an icon. The only straw you can clutch at is a reddit post. Furthermore there are big concernes that face the trans community like the laws being passed against us in many nations. Some teetering on genocide. However the conversation as OP brought up and you was about this side of trans stuff.
>The fuck does this even mean? By that metric, why are you engaging in this? Oh right, because you're obsessed.
You said before that this was my last you which turned out to be a lie. My point here since you can't read and are probably ESL is that for bitching about le west vs east you do seem to be more obsessed with the west then anything.
>And again, I don't take your claim at face value. I provided examples of several trans people on social media, from America and Japan making their opinion known and having actual accounts,
I can also post Blaire White and say he is good rep. You posted cherry picked ones since even on those same accounts are other trans people disagreeing with them and your take. You are a cisman trying to only look for those that agree with you as a mouthpiece.
> agree, but you're missing the point. Lets walk this through with me step by step
So you proved by the trap slur is a problem. Good job. You said before trap is not used against transwoman and now are using it on a transwoman. Again why you don't listen to trans issues. When she first came out many trans people had to fight for those to not call her a trap since people were trying to say she was a femboy and not a transgirl. This is why we bring up the rep. When we do get rep we need to even fight to keep what scraps are thrown to us.
>Who's stamping their feet; it's a fucking misuse of the terminology.
slur that should not be used.
>The irony of your statement here is that it's literally just a word, and not even one like [insert word-filtered slur].
Again why you are shitty. You don't talk to actual transwomen. Its an issue we have. You are again very self centered.
>That's not what the phrase means.
It is what it means.
>Why did you throw a fit about a slur you KNOW doesn't refer to you?
Since it does refer to me?

>>24215
>I know the guy who made that OP post.
So do I, I used to chat with him years back, and?
>So you're butthurt that the social democrats do your (commies) job better
And the liberal unveils himself
>yghur you live in a basement most likely and have enough time to debate other losers myself included on an anime image board. Your ass is not going to lead or participate in any revolution.
Nope, just because you want me to be your boogieman self-projection doesn't make it any more real. I post sporadically, I'm not here for most of the day and for most of the week. It's an anonymous board, not everyone replying to your idiocy is the same person. And I never claimed to be 'leading a revolution', I'm active and try to do my part within the limitations I have, that does not include mindlessly supporting 'the current thing'.
>It is. That is what the definition is.
No, it isn't. MARX's definition of Class (which is what is being referred to) is that class is the position determined by economic factors independent of personal identity, thus Class Struggle is primarily between the proletarian working class and the bourgeois ruling class. Marx's point about women is that identity only differentiates the symptoms of oppression of the class system, and explains that the socio-economic pressures on proletarian men pushes them to replicate this on a domestic basis. The changes and developments to Capitalism since have changed this dynamic.
>The Nazi myth started by Kruschev and the USSR?
The Nazis were claiming the Stalin, Beria etc. were all rapists and womanizers since the 1930s. Khruschev simply used that accusation as part of the bullshit trial. As a source for my claim: On Stalin's Team: The Years of Living Dangerously in Soviet Politics, by Sheila Fitzpatrick, Chapter 9.
>The thing he got tried for
He wasn't on trial for rape, nor was that his conviction, it was simply another accusation brought up; he was tried for "treason" because Khruschev was getting rid of political opponents in his rush to remove all influence of Stalin. The 'rape' allegation was based entirely on 'testimony' by 'body guards' and it's well known the Beria's trial was a rushed sham. The fact that the testimonies were physically impossible says a lot. One testimony claimed Beria had the bodies destroyed with acid in his bath-tub. The amount of acid needed for a single body is a lot and for dozens it would be an amount that would be noted as going missing in a planned economy. Furthermore a bathtub, especially the one in question were made of metals and ceramics, which are not acid-resistant and would melt with the body, especially after prolonged and continual use. The other testimony claimed bodies were buried in the yard of the Dacha. Not a single body was ever located… which makes no sense since the body-guards would literally know exactly where such bodies would be.
>The thing Stalin himself knew and did not even wan
According to whom? Oh right, Simon Montefiore, the Epstein-Island-Visiting anti-communist pedophile who popularized the entire narrative about rapist Beria in the modern era. The idea that Stalin would keep Beria if these allegations were known to him is laughable at best; Yezhov and Yagoda prove that having a high-position in the NKVD meant little if one was a criminal.
>Ummm akshully he was not a rapist. He was just policing those women like a good boy?"
I didn't say that you lying motherfucker. I stated that there is no proof and that such allegations have been anti-communist propaganda for decades.
>Again the issue is presuming
There is no "presumption", it's a material analysis of the socio-economic causes of capitalist oppression, and is proven in the case of the USSR and other socialist countries.
>I like how you glossed over the issue with Flynn
I did not, I addressed it multiple times and you pointedly ignore the first part of my reply
>Since before it was "Flynn was such a queen and would never."
You're blatantly making shit up. I said that as far as I was aware, she didn't use the term in her writings. I was incorrect in that she wrote for the Feminist Column for the CPUSA, but she did not use feminism as a common term in her writing, referring to Proletarian Women Rights and Women Worker's Rights much more often.
>spoke about female issues.
>There are issues that directly impact women compared to men.
I never denied she spoke about female issues or that they exist, I stated that she never viewed them as separate from class issues, and spoke of them as part of the oppression of the proletariat. Your disingenuous misrepresentation of me holds no water, and if its not deliberate then you need to stop, you're coming in with bias and misreading me.
>No one is saying to let you brow beat them.
Anon, you've consistently misrepresented my meaning and spammed 2016-era 4chan buzzwords and meme-phrases at me while accusing me directly AND indirectly of being /pol/ simply because I am critical of feminism. At no point in ANY of my posts have I even come CLOSE to actual /pol/ rhetoric about women, I don't hate them (hell I love women), nor do I think that they don't deserve rights or that issues particular to their sex are unimportant, I specifically point out that the USSR's Constitution emancipated women and had specific laws for the protection of women and issues endemic to them. My point is that relative to capitalism and pre-revolutionary conditions, women's issues must be viewed through the lens of material analysis to determine the causes, rather than reflexively patch over the symptoms, which is liberal welfare-capitalism.
>"I don't have to listen to women. They are stinky and liberal"
See this is what I mean, I wrote nothing even close to this strawman. This is what I mean by brow-beating; I criticize making women's rights a separate ideology, and you claim that means I'm not listening and that I'm reactionary based on a strawman.
>eems a bit more biased of who is the true and pure communist not like those stinky insertothersocialistparty.
No, it's based off of both what I know of them and what I know of and experienced with Western Communist Parties.
>Its barely relevant unless you meant some other party with the same name.
That was my mistake, I meant the CPI; Communist Party of India
>That some socialist do have a focus on politics that only effect the majority population and forget to help the people they are claiming to fight for.
It may surprise you, but I don't disagree with this general sentiment. This comes with a caveat that we cannot permit any pendulum swinging in the other direction, as if often that case. That is my entire criticism of the feminist thing, not that we (socialists) shouldn't address women specific issues, but like Zetkin, Flynn, Kollontai, Luxemburg and Ihrer all specify in their works on women's issues; the understanding and view through the greater lens of class struggle must be tightly controlled, to avoid liberal rhetoric.
>NEver heard of this and would like to read it since this is an L on his part.
It's literally a well known subject. It's not an L at all. Read Marxism and the National Question and Stalin's Speech at The Congress of the People's of Dagestan.

>>24222
>222
True, responding to a question.

>>24224
>>24223
>Critical support is baaaaad
Then you're an ideologue.
>Man that CIA is ass for supporting the Taliban
>Anyway I am now going to support my theocracy since its not aligned with the other power I hate.
<The CIA created color revolutions is the same as supporting grass-roots movements!
Whelp then I guess you better rescind that support for Palestine bud, cause they're quite religious too! Utterly disgusting. Literal both sideist false equivalency. Get the fuck out of here with this NAFO-tier garbage.

>24223
>Who are a minority.
Where's your proof? I posted several trans people, and you've only got yourself to CLAIM. You're dismissing the opinions of other trans people (let alone contesting them) and claiming they're a minority while providing no evidence to that end.
>Most of the trans community loves those like Bridget and Lily.
Conflating Lily and Bridget is /pol/shit. I've explained why.
>You also linked reddit too You are cis and trying to use those that agree with your worldview
<um uh, they don't count because, uhhh REDDIT! Yeah! And you don't count because I'm assuming your identity and rather than address your argument, I'm gonna make an Argument by Authority Fallacy
So you're dismissing a person's opinion because they posted it to reddit? Despite them being trans and not the only one in that thread either? Reminds me of /pol/fags and their automatic dismissal of anything posted on tumblr as "SJW". You have no argument to what the post says, so you're attacking the source. As I said, being trans matters only to you in so far that you can use it to prop up your argument, otherwise it suddenly doesn't matter. If your experiences matter then so do those of the trans people that argue the opposite of you.
>Even in the thing you linked it misgenders transwomen in the PDF
The fuck it does. It's a translation from Japanese, and by default trumps your Westernoid understanding of Japanese culture and wording: https://note.com/wakari_te/n/n3522e245a9a1
And if it had been written by a trans person you would find some other way to dismiss it because their opinion doesn't fit your narrative.
>Hibari-kun
Yes, because as the pdf states, that's what they were seen and called, because it was long before trans-sexuality was commonly known in the public sphere as opposed to cross-dressing, that is history, and to claim otherwise is revisionist and wrong, any more than a prohibition of the word "slave" as a term to describe enslaved African-Americans. You're cherrypicking so as to not address the actual point.
>You can't read. You've been bitching about all these western brands and series and western stuff this wholetime.
I repeat, you're genuinely mentally ill. I brought up examples of poor representation in pop-media as a passing comparison ONCE, and your only argument is to say "Um, errrr Muh Western slop!" which ironically enough confirms my point. Also the fact that you dismiss the representation of women and black people is hypocritical, and I can just as easily dismiss Lily as slop too. Good job. But real talk; Django Unchained is literally an icon of black representation of their fight for freedom in media, and you're not only dismissing it, but equating it to a literal tokenism representation of a black simp for a white woman. First you assume my identity, then dismiss me because your identity is more important, and you not only dismiss other trans people and Japanese people for disagreeing with you, but dismiss representation of women and black people and everyone else. Priceless egoism on display. As an addendum you pointedly ignore my point about Kirikou, because again, it disrupts your echo-chamber.
>Trap is a slu-
Nope, already explained.
>You keep freaking out all the time.
So you admit to having no argument, Concession accepted.
>To compare trans rep in modern games to Nazi propaganda?
Another strawman fallacy: I stated that if ANY representation is good, then we may as well include Nazi shit too by that metric, not that it's literally the same.
>Projection
<N-no u!
'K
>No one who fights le Nazis IRL comes to leftypol to post how ebin they are
Find a single post of mine or anyone's here that brags about what they've done. I made a statement that I've taken action IRL, that's it. Your dismissal of my statement does not make my prior activities stop existing. You're just coping because I'm not terminally online like you.
>Did everyone clap at the end too
On a tangential note, I find it rather amusing that you have consistently, throughout this entire thread used 2010s 4chan memes and buzzwords, ironic.
>you said "Why do you need to be repped? You can just like the cishet characters!"
Nope, at no point did I say this.
>I explained further
You didn't explain further, you doubled down and repeated yourself while providing no proof whatsoever.
>children's cartoons and anime which is also children's cartoons.
<Cartoons are for kidz!
*Laughs in Oshii* Why are you here on /anime/? Despite pretending to care about representation in anime you clearly don't know anything about it, about Japan or foreign cultures in general. You clearly despise it and until I brought up Lily, I guarantee you didn't even know who that was before looking them up online. You brought up games without any prompting, and specifically Bridget when I didn't mention or hint at the character or Games. It's a topic that people haven't brought up in years since, and only radlibs and rightoids still bring it up.
>Cause you don't hang around in trans spaces
Funny considering that I'm literally in one that discusses futa and trans, and on /lgbt/ and on reddit and in real life, because people I know are trans and I don't have anything against them. You're just making claims and statements that you have not backed up A SINGLE TIME. You claim to BE trans, despite this being an anonymous imageboard. But we'll let that slide; next you make assertions multiple times that "trans people say this and think that" yet while I provided screencaps, translations and links to trans people backing up my claim, you have not done so.
>Most trans due lean ancom.
<Translation: I'm AnCom and that means that the majority of my identity are just like me!
The funny thing is that this is the same method /pol/cels use to claim that most white people are secretly alt-right; 0 proof, all projection.
>You would know this if you actually knew transwomen
What an american-centric way of seeing things. You say I'm in a bubble yet within this own thread, dismiss and ignore examples of trans people that disagree with your opinion and stance, and assume I don't know trans people because the people and circles I know of are not conforming to your opinions.
>All I said was I was happy others are getting represented more.
That's not all you said; you shifted goal-posts and claimed you were happy to be represented even within the context of said representation being exploitative tokenism, as well as in the context of futanari, where-in trans people do not like being associated with futanari as a term and identity, and I posted a link to that end as AN example. I also explained why tokenism is bad.
>hissy fit
Is that all you can say? You repeat the same lines over and over again like a broken chatbot.
>then tried to justify it by saying "Well that's the majority pop." You used the conservative argument that minorities need to shut up and just accept ajority population.
You're genuinely schizophrenic. I said none of this.
>We were simply talking about that is how its always been that way so its good
No, we were not. You randomly brought up games and Bridget, then when I pointed out the utterly transphobic representation it is, you shifted goal posts and complained about how "Video games were always cis white males!". I pointed out that this is an entirely burger-centric view, as games from Japan were not focused on white males but on Japanese males and females, because those were the primary population deomgraphics of Japan, just like white straight people are the majority of the USA's population for most of its existence, which is a reflection of material reality impacting media (Base -> Superstructure). To conclude you're a liar. I'll add that most games for most of video-game existences were 8bit, 16bit and 32bit games where the main character were everything from submarines, space-ships, demons and orcs to fucking hedgehogs.
ch a bad-faith radlib garbage.

>>24349
>24223
>You said why do you need rep and can't you just connect with a good character argument
1) You're still strawmanning, because I didn't say that
2) You've shifted the goalposts, slapping on the last past about connecting to good characters
TL;DR: “Don’t write a gay character, write a character who happens to be gay.”
But since YOU brought up connecting to good characters; That is separate from representation, just because a character represents an identity doesn't make for a good characterization or story, because CHARACTER is not the same as IDENTITY. A Good Characterization means the identity they may represent is also good representation, and not capitalist tokenism. Your argument that we should just accept poor representation is basically admitting that you're happy capitalists toss you trash to consume because this trash happens to have a trans flagged slapped onto it. Go buy an anarchist shirt from Amazon for 150$ while you're at it.
And again you repeatedly ignore the fact that erasing the representation of a character and replacing them with another for no good reason, is bad. If someone made Blade a white guy, they'd be criticized for erasure of Black characters, rightly so. Since you pointedly ignore my point on Tokenism, let me remind you what it is: "Tokenism is the practice of making only a perfunctory or symbolic effort to be inclusive to members of minority groups"
>Americans live rent free in your head.
<brings up American Exceptionalist rhetoric and America-centric politics; "N-no Uv got rent free boogiemen"
Pathetic
>Its not transphobic.
Yes it is.
>he creator of GG himself has said that Bridget is meant to be trans.
Yeah, like Rowling said that Dumbledore was supposed to be Gay and there were totally trans students but they weren't shown! Oh wait, everyone laughed at her for retroactively changing her story like that. It's called Death of Author. If the creator of GG legitimately meant the character to be trans then that makes him a fucking transphobe you dipshit, because the narrative is literally that of a boy getting gaslit into becoming a girl… which is LITERALLY (with exact equivalence) the /pol/ transhobe narrative of trans pedophile groomers AND is LITERALLY erasing the entire story of Bridget for the past 20 years being that a gender-non-conforming boy can still be a man even if unconventional, which is now undermined by Bridget going "lol nevermind about my suffering and struggles of being misgendered as a GIRL despite being a BOY, I'm going to accept that the people misgendering me are right!" Go fuck yourself bigot.
>trans icon
Bidget has always been an icon of gender non-conforming men, transVESTITES, not transSEXUALS. This is literally culturally appropriating a character for another identity.
>The only people I hear bitch about Bridget being trans are concern trolling conservatives
Gaslighting fallacious bullshit. I demonstrated examples of the opposite from trans people.
>Its Bridget discovering herself. No one is forcing her to be trans. In the storyline she comes to it on her own conclusions. no one forces her to be it
You can repeat "no one forces her" 'til you're blue in the face, doesn't make it true, I explained precisely why this is untrue, you have addressed none of it. The character is described as a boy, the character repeatedly corrects others to say they're a boy, they consistently ask burly men for tips to be a man, and they reject the idea that they're a girl and explain that they only dress like it because of their village. There's NO indication of dysphoria in the character, and it directly goes against the story's narrative for Bridget to accept the gender-conformation others view him as.
>The only straw you can clutch at is a reddit post
Refusing to acknowledge other trans opinions, including that of a trans Japanese fanartist and not addressing the arguments they present at all is utterly toxic behavior, and all because you CLAIM to represent the majority of trans people and then demand that I should take your word for it. Disgusting.
>My point here since you can't read and are probably ESL
<Hurr ur ESL, and pointing out burger entitlement means UR obsessed.
This coming from the person that has misspelled so many words, and used such terrible grammar, is fucking ludicrous. Your racism is showing again too.
>I can also post Blaire White
I didn't post Blaire White, you're deflecting and promoting a false equivalency.
>You posted cherry picked ones
<I'm not cherrypicking you are
<even on those same accounts are other trans people disagreeing
1) Unlike you I actually provided proof of what I'm saying
2) And other trans people agreed with them, because contrary to your view of the world, trans people are not an alien hivemind, despite what /pol/ taught you
>You are a cisman trying to only look for those that agree with you as a mouthpiece.
Funny thing is that my argument wasn't that NO trans people liked Bridget's change, my argument is that it's a garbage change and many of them disliked it, which I have proven. You are attacking my identity as a way of deflecting from addressing the arguments said trans people and myself bring up.
>why you don't listen to trans issues
Trans issues to me are cartels gunning down those forced into prostitution out of hatred, trans issues to me is representation of being groomed into dysphoria. It's funny that you bring up Blaire White when I never did, because your rhetoric is a liberal mirror of her garbage.
>Its an issue we have
Trap is not a slur that trans rights activists actively discuss, trny or trn IS a slur that's actually used IRl and online and is a problematic term I've heard/seen used at or about trans people and find disgusting. Trap is a misuse of a fictional term for an anime trope about crossdressers, used on obscure anime forums.
>Since it does refer to me
It does not, and never has.

>You said before that this was my last you which turned out to be a lie.
That's not what that phrase even means… but you know what, the gist of that is correct. I was a fool for engaging such a disgustingly toxic, internalized-transphobe, closet racist like you. I realize you're a First-Worlder obsessed with retarded /pol/ memes and /pol/ buzzwords because deep down, you actually believe the crap they say and these boogiemen occupy your schizophrenic thoughts 24/7. That's why you don't have any arguments other than fallacies and ad hominum, that's why you constantly project onto others. Go back and good-bye. Rant as much as you want, I'm no longer engaging su