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'The weapon of criticism cannot, of course, replace criticism of the weapon, material force must be overthrown by material force; but theory also becomes a material force as soon as it has gripped the masses.' - Karl Marx
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File: 1682576933257.png (3.69 MB, 1932x1260, siege-111111111.png)

 No.16924[View All]

I have a very strong belief that the prevailing ideology in existing late-stage capitalism is the siege mentality. Literally every identity group feels as if they are under siege. Everyone believes they are being specifically targeted by some grand evil force that wants to destroy them.

We see it with Black folks in America who are still being systematically ghettoized and terrorized by the police. We see it with middle-class whites who are seeing their middle-class way of life slowly deteriorate. We see it with queer folks who are constantly combating anti-trans laws and other forms of discrimination, yet we also see it with queerphobes who truly believe there's a conspiracy to turn kids gay or trans. We see it strongly with the disabled who believe everyone wants to commit eugenics against them. We see it with nearly every single religious group (Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, even atheists/seculars). The left adheres to it and the right adheres to it. Even sex workers have an extreme siege mentality.

So my questions for discussion are:

1. What is the best materialist explanation for why the siege mentality has emerged so heavily in our modern age? Is it social media? Capitalism collapsing on itself? An overarching feeling of uncertainty about the future? The failure of the 60s New Left? Or something else?

2. Is the siege mentality revolutionary, or is it fundamentally reactionary? On one hand, you could see it as false consciousness, or something which creates highly tribalist feelings. On the other hand, the siege mentality enables someone to see through the bullshit of modern society and become highly ideologically driven.

PS – I am NOT a grad student writing a dissertation on this subject.
253 posts and 14 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.17185

File: 1684182733210.pdf (24.24 MB, 172x255, Black Marxism The Making o….pdf)

>>16941

> Race, are tied characteristics of class or even arguably a sort of class unto themselves

this is correct I think. Cedric Robinson's argument in Black Marxism is that "racism" has it's antecedents in European labour organisation going back centuries before modernistic racism.

>here has never been a moment in modern European history (if before) that migratory and/or immigrant labor was not a significant aspect of European economies. That this is not more widely understood seems to be a consequence of conceptualization and analysis: the mistaken use of the nation as a social, historical, and economic category; a resultant and persistent reference to national labor “pools” (e.g., “the English working class”) and a subsequent failure of historical investigation

>from the twelfth century forward, it was the bourgeoisie and the administrators of state power who initiated and nurtured myths of egalitarianism while seizing every occasion to divide peoples for the purpose of their domination


Kenan Malik's new book is apparently all about this too.

 No.17186

>>17184
There are many currents in any society. Preppers and so on would be a symptom or a current of such a Risk society or risk-averse society.

 No.17187

>>17183
Yes yes I'm sure I upset you very much by reminding you of people who disagree with you on social issues but if I'm a conservative anybody behind me on social issues is a reactionary

Now since the red carpet is rolled out help me set up a sensory room >>>/siberia/ for our new autistic overlords

Say after me
Trans rights are human rights
Autism rights are human rights
Stalin did nothing wrong except be too kind and merciful

U don't wanna be a reactionary now do you?

 No.17188

>>17187
lib status: triggered

 No.17189

Honest question: why would the ruling class continue to adhere to Malthusianism if the whole world knows Malthus’ predictions were dead wrong? Telling me the “globalist elites” are Malthusian is like telling me they’re Holocaust deniers or flat-Earthers or unironic believers in crystal healing.

And both the left and right appeal to the siege mentality. In fact appealing to the feeling of being under siege is the primary way both left and right win people over.

 No.17190

>>17187
>rights
youre a liberal

 No.17191

>>17187
Rights only exist insofar as you can defend them.

 No.17192

>>17189
The people who say that usually have very misogynistic views towards women, in that they think the massive plummet in global fertility has to be a contrived conspiracy rather than a product of women being educated and refusing to engage in more reproductive labour.

 No.17193

Siege mentality is litteraly the most reactionnary shit i ever read. This Mason guy is a freak.

 No.17194

>>17190
did marx not believe in rights?

 No.17196

>>17195
>>17195
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_human_rights#Marxist_critique_of_human_rights
oh i thought it was just stirner who was against the notion of "rights"

 No.17197

>>17196
Stirner doesnt like rights for idealist reasons
Marxists dont like rights for materialist reasons

 No.17198

>>17196
>Security is the supreme social concept of bourgeois society, the concept of the police, the whole society exists only to ensure each of its members the preservation of his person, his rights and his property.
OH NO NO NO NO BUT I THOUGHT WE WOULD HAVE COPS UNDER COMMUNISM????????

 No.17199

>>17198
Just wait til people find out theres no state under communism either

 No.17200

>>17154
You're wrong, but you're posting an anime reaction image so you gave it away too easily. Here I'll break it down for you:

Anti-racist struggles centered on class analysis relate to actual social forces that can impact production, improve people's material outlook and agitate revolution.

Anti-racism ideology concocted by the bourgeoisie in its present form is a tool to divide the working class, to strengthen the managerial state apparatus and protect capitalism.

It's really that simple. If the rhetoric sounds like it's coming from an upper-middle class HR manager, then it probably was cooked up by exactly these sorts of people.

 No.17201

>>17189
One of my professors at Law School is an ardent Green left socdem and his response to my criticism of green politics being Malthusian is that Malthus was wrong then because he was racist but he's more or less correct now because "we have the data".

Marx's critique of Malthus in the Grundrisse needs to be more widely circulated, because this race to the bottom siege mentality is compatible with Malthus's line of thinking and it is diametrically opposed to the revolutionary outlook. Either we redeem history and revolutionise production, or we gets cartels and gangs running rackets to protect their scraps.

 No.17202

>>17200
>Anti-racist struggles centered on class analysis relate to actual social forces that can impact production, improve people's material outlook and agitate revolution.

>Anti-racism ideology concocted by the bourgeoisie in its present form is a tool to divide the working class, to strengthen the managerial state apparatus and protect capitalism.

How do you tell the difference? Because 99% of the time when someone says “anti-racism divides the working class” they’re using it as an excuse to not talk about the ways in which BIPOC are uniquely oppressed.

 No.17203

>>17202
>How do you tell the difference?
By the terms and stakes that are used in the debate and if they actually represent a threat to the system or if they are trying to be accommodated by capitalism. For example, if you use racism to agitate for "representation" in Hollywood movies and that's your political horizon. Or demand "equity" (property mortgage term) in the form of state welfare guaranteed by bourgeois political parties.

>Because 99% of the time when someone says “anti-racism divides the working class” they’re using it as an excuse to not talk about the ways in which BIPOC are uniquely oppressed.
No it's not 99% of the time, you're projecting that onto people. People are absolutely willing to talk about unjust labour conditions on the ivory coast, police violence or how refugees are treated poorly. The problem is whether you ascribe all of these social problems to the "original sin" of white people which can only be redeemed by the capitalist state righting the wrongs of history. Or, you're instead analyzing capitalism as a global system and questioning why these patterns continually re-emerge during periods of crisis.

 No.17204

>>17203
If the argument here is reformism vs revolution why do you not frame it that way and instead scapegoat anti-racists?

 No.17205

>>17204
Once again you're projecting things I did not say, and do not believe. Instead of imagining a strawman, deal with the substance of the argument. Modern "progressivism" is reformist, in some cases hostile to the interests of the proletariat and complicit with imperialism. And this is the exact modus operandi of the Democratic party who will use this racialist, subaltern rhetoric so you continually vote for them in the name of "harm reduction". You don't need to dance around the issue, just call a spade a spade.

Because I am an orthodox, I always frame the debate this way: Are you a revolutionary, do you understand class interests - or are you a liberal/reactionary?

 No.17206

>>17205
Orthodox what?

 No.17207

>>17206
Brush up on the basics, I recommend Reform or Revolution because this seems to be where you're confused.

 No.17208

>>17167
What does he argue?

 No.17209

>>17172
A completely new form of communication. Most of us go way out of our way to look people in the eye, not stim, pretend to be interested in conversations that don’t interest us. Autistic people don’t want to be “fixed”, we want autonomy and respect like all other marginalized peoples. Leave us alone and give us basic support so we don’t have to mingle with allistics to survive.

 No.17210

>>17209
>pretend to be interested in conversations that don’t interest us.
You do realise this describes 80% of humanity. There is always some baseline of contempt that people have in day to day interactions, it's why the English invented manners.

 No.17211

>>17210
Manners are oppressive social constructs.

 No.17212

>>17211
Not really, they provide easy guidelines for a functioning society. Under socialism there will still be socialization, neurodivergent people should be understood and integrated into social roles that they're comfortable with but there will always be "weird" people who don't fit in.

 No.17213

>>16953
>>17011
>>17093
This is an S-tier article that should be read by every idpoler since it sums up the logical conclusions of their beliefs.

For starters, it points out how siege groups (autistics, queer community, white conservative Christians, Muslim immigrants in Europe, etc.) will primarily resort to some kind of separatist sentiments as the primary means of dealing with the siege. You see this in statements like "we don't want assimilation, we want AUTONOMY AND RESPECT" as if the autonomy in this situation isn't just a demand for separatism.

I'd add too you see those groups end up becoming very conservative in that they demand conformity so that the enemy isn't able to infiltrate and destroy their group. Queer spaces for instance were a hell of a lot more liberating 15 years ago when I started getting involved. The whole idea was "be yourself" and everyone accepted you regardless. Now there's a billion and a half unwritten rules you have to follow. Like if you detransition you're now persona non grata because everyone assumes you're anti-trans. I get the impression if trans people could they'd form their own Israel just because they feel constantly attacked and in need of a permanent safe space.

Maybe the US becoming more polarized is a good thing because each state now has the potential to act as a sort of safe space for people feeling like they're under siege. Let transphobic and ableist white Christians have Florida and Missouri while letting neurodivergent and queer progressives have California and Washington State.

 No.17214

>>17213
This is really good reason for a UBI. Just give everyone free money so they no longer have to compete with each other and can stay in their own little groups.

 No.17215

>>17211
>forcing me to look people in the eye is literal eugenics waaaaaaaa

 No.17216

>>17214
rofl

 No.17217

>>17213
enlightened centrist

 No.17218

>>17213
Honestly impressive how many people broadly within the “critique of callouts” socioculture have more or less the same starting assumption that the community has Bad People who need to be identified and driven out but instead of being about some broad harm it’s like, harshed vibes.
Feel like there are other stages of intervention one can have before drastic social blow ups or reverse uni exile but the thing about that is it doesn’t reinstate your social currency your lost when the last stupid game you played got you a stupid prize.

 No.17219

>>17213
>Like if you detransition you're now persona non grata because everyone assumes you're anti-trans. I get the impression if trans people could they'd form their own Israel just because they feel constantly attacked and in need of a permanent safe space.
stop falling for conservatard psyops

 No.17220

File: 1684859469001.gif (86.99 KB, 220x186, 1612352510436.gif)

my spicy hot take is that 50% of detransitioners would have their problems solved by accepting that they might be nonbinary and they they can do things besides complete detransition or full dose hormones and every single surgery

 No.17221

>>17214
Except it’s not about money. It’s fundamentally about power and competing for hegemony.

 No.17222

>>17217
Centrist? How? If anything I’m pointing out the need for siege groups to loosen up and become more open to things which challenge their paradigm in order so they can be more adaptive. Refusal to change is what results in totalitarian tendencies.

Or, we should all read Hegel.

 No.17223

>>17214
Or, just make communities self-sustaining. People freak out over eugenics/WEF/agenda 21 because they feel as if they have zero control over their communities and some Illuminati is working to destroy them all.

 No.17224

>>17223
Only one community, the human community.

 No.17225

>>17172
Sensory accommodations

Bans on bright lights and loud noises

Ban ABA therapy

Make autistic a specific legal category

 No.17226

File: 1684942426019.png (305.02 KB, 500x500, 1456875691726.png)

>>17225
>Bans on bright lights and loud noises
this one is especially funny

 No.17227

>>17225
>laws
yeah chief youre a liberal

 No.17228

>>17225
>Sensory accommodations
>Make autistic a specific legal category

Already covered in disability legislation.

>Ban ABA therapy

How do level 2 or 3 kids learn basic skills then?

 No.17229

Holy shit Roo was prophetic with this one.

 No.17230

Remember in the mid 2010s when Zizek used to talk about how the new trend in politics is ethnocentrism mixed with neoliberalism? Do you think that goes along with the feeling of being under siege?

 No.17231

>>17230
>Remember in the mid 2010s when Zizek used to talk about how the new trend in politics is ethnocentrism mixed with neoliberalism

Zizek was correct for his time but as we know, the owl flies at dusk. He was grasping a political moment that was already over by the time he theorized about it. What we're witnessing now is the slow agonising death of neoliberalism, and the current mix of idpol perfectly complements the siege mentality as the state intervenes to circulate capital.

If things aren't growing economically, each marginalised community feels that they have to scrape the barrel to maintain their equity, and it leads them to see the state as the vehicle that butters their bread and "enfranchises" their wellbeing. It is a problem that has been inherited from the New Left, and I'm glad that socialists are waking up to the miseducation.

 No.17232

Keep talking about this topic. Some great points in this thread.

 No.17233

>>17229
Back when Jason made quality content.

 No.17234

File: 1686428528545.jpg (32.69 KB, 850x478, 1683059250298.jpg)

Self diagnosing myself as not autistic because I cannot relate to a lot of the shit you guys post.

 No.17235

>>17234
Such as?


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