Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 06:34:34 No. 16925
siege mentality is just idpol taken to extreme lengths.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 06:42:18 No. 16926
>>16925 >siege mentality is just idpol taken to extreme lengths. I don't think it's just idpol. A lot of it revolves around outright paranoia to the point where you think everyone outside your identity group automatically has nefarious intentions to destroy you. This isn't: "we want more autistic queer girlbosses" or something but more along the lines of: "everyone who isn't an autistic queer girl wants to destroy all autistic queer girls".
How are colonized peoples, the disabled, etc. not classes?
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 06:49:21 No. 16927
>>16926 I wouldn't phrase that like that, opens up derailment.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 06:50:27 No. 16928
>>16927 What should I have said instead?
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 06:53:47 No. 16929
>>16924 >1. What is the best materialist explanation for why the siege mentality has emerged so heavily in our modern age? Is it social media? Capitalism collapsing on itself? An overarching feeling of uncertainty about the future? The failure of the 60s New Left? Or something else? Simple: destruction of old communities and capitalism running too quickly for society to catch up.
Depends on how well it translates to radical actions. People who bitch and moan on Twitter all day who aren't organizing IRL are useless. Plus feeling like everyone is out to get you makes you focus on yourself and your in-group 24/7 meaning you lose sight of everything else.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 06:54:02 No. 16930
Polarization and group-specific oppressions are a bourgeois class warfare tactic, spread through media, legislation, reinforcememt of economic inequality, etc.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 06:58:13 No. 16931
>>16930 >Polarization and group-specific oppressions are a bourgeois class warfare tactic, spread through media, legislation, reinforcememt of economic inequality, etc. I'm fully aware of that, but what's exactly at play which turns manufactured divisions into all-out paranoia about everyone who isn't of your identity group trying to destroy you? Repressive laws exist, sure, but what creates a collective mentality of: "everyone wants to destroy us"?
I never said it was idpol. In fact I was arguing against this assumption since I don't think you can explain it by reducing it to idpol gone wild.
My point is though that the reactionary attitudes towards trans people leads transphobes into adopting an all-out siege mentality even though they're the ones doing the oppressing. That's the paradox. You see it on "both sides" even when there's a clear-cut oppressed vs. oppressor.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 06:59:20 No. 16932
>>16928 I wouldn't call those groups in-of-themselves classes, but the struggles of these groups significantly relate to class. I think it's possible to apply this idea directly to class as well as how you have already applied it.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 07:01:43 No. 16934
>>16931 >Repressive laws exist, sure, but what creates a collective mentality of: "everyone wants to destroy us"? I'm not sure I agree this is a substantial phenomenon. "Everyone"? Maybe the odd individual or group thinks this way. Its caused by hyper polarization and susceptibility to it, or real oppressions.
>>16931 >My point is though that the reactionary attitudes towards trans people leads transphobes into adopting an all-out siege mentality even though they're the ones doing the oppressing. That's the paradox. You see it on "both sides" even when there's a clear-cut oppressed vs. oppressor. Its literally right wing media and specific interest groups. Trans people weren't even on their radar as much decades ago
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 07:18:50 No. 16935
>>16934 >Its caused by hyper polarization and susceptibility to it, or real oppressions. But why has it become so prevalent in the culture in, say, the past 13 or so years? I remember Tumblr from 2012-2016 was full of this way of thinking ("SJWs").
I get that right-wing brainwashing by media exists, but there has to be a material reason as to why it turns into full-blown paranoia.
I live in a town where there's a lot of right-wingers who are outright transphobes/queerphobes. Most of their hatred comes from thinking there's some conspiracy specifically designed to destroy their way of life, e.g. the secretively LGBTQ mafia is actively recruiting kids to become gay/trans in order to usurp the "traditional family" and destroy gender norms or whatever. For them, the fear is *very* rational even if we can see why it's bullshit.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 07:27:02 No. 16936
>>16935 >But why has it become so prevalent in the culture in, say, the past 13 or so years? I remember Tumblr from 2012-2016 was full of this way of thinking ("SJWs"). This is obscure internet shit
>>16935 >I live in a town where there's a lot of right-wingers who are outright transphobes/queerphobes Media brainwashing and ingroup bias
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 07:28:37 No. 16937
>>16936 >Media brainwashing and ingroup bias Media brainwashing and in-group bias aren't enough to create full-blown paranoia about "enemies" looking to destroy you 24/7.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 07:52:01 No. 16938
>>16930 >Reactionary cishets mad about trans people is entirely manufactured though not real and material, you'd do well to not group them in so naively. "Manufactured" is nothing more than a crutch for a weak argument; "manufactured" could be applied to every group mentioned in some sense. Even a naive grouping is better than yet another impoverished "Marxist" critique of "ideology."
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 07:52:55 No. 16939
Siege mentality Is not real, the oppressed working and under classes or peasantry/rural peoples are diverse and have many different peoples organically and by and for purposeful labour division and divide and conquer, all related to capitalist subsumption and repression tactics for profit or market demands (race to the bottom) etc… not feeling but being pressured by policies and social relations, an intensified class struggle on the winning side of the capitalists of the oppressors and its institutions, people 'feel' what in reality is being forced upon them, the social phenomena and economic current riding against them, HOWEVER yes some reactionary classes or groups like the middle classes will feel a entitlement, a false oppression.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 07:53:51 No. 16940
>>16939 summary: siege mentality is bullshit.
read better more historical materialist works as mentioned to understand inner class divisions.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 07:59:07 No. 16941
>>1446920(me)
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 08:42:31 No. 16943
>>1446916
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 08:43:27 No. 16944
>>16938 >trans people actually have their rights actively taken away >white cishets scared about trans people turning their kids gay these are not the same, equivocating is low autism score bullshit
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 08:46:51 No. 16945
>>1446916 >As a scientist and a medical professional, my personal opinion is that this is child experimentation. It's a very dangerous capitalist framework which is encouraging this trend.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 08:53:28 No. 16946
>>16924 It's neither reactionary nor revolutionary in and of itself, it's "human nature". The question is like asking: "Is happiness revolutionary or reactionary?"
But it's an interesting situation and you're neither wrong nor stupid to identify it. Here's my case: It is currently downstream of reactionary forces. Specifically, the incentive structures of a commercialized internet. The siege mentality is a basic part of human group dynamics under certain circumstances, and the way in which it makes groups behave is ideal for driving certain market behaviours. Twitter is perfectly designed to make you feel part of a group, then make you feel that group is under siege. The ultimate result of this is the pathetically banal outcome that you post on Twitter more. Plus, as a positive outcome for capital as a whole, you're gonna click and share a bunch of news articles, and maybe buy a few t-shirts to show your group loyalty.
People will call it idpol, but they miss how pervasive identity is and how it interacts with the internet landscape. It is perfectly possible to feel as strongly about Homestuck or /leftypol/ as other people do about being Black. Too many on the left are averse to seeing the situation honestly, since that would mean recognizing that identities cannot simply be "set aside" and that ultimately, most appeals to doing so are really just a way of showing off your own identity (for example, as "anti-idpol")
The quickest technical hack around it would be to try and build a new broad-brush identity, like getting everyone to strongly feel that they're a communist. Ironically, those who're most responsible for this would be branded as treacherous liberals by most because they're the ones saying Jade Harley is communist, which - if you think of yourself as a very serious marxist who's above all this identity nonsense - is childish nonsense. Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 09:09:23 No. 16947
>>16944 >these are not the same, equivocating is low autism score bullshit If we're talking about a "mentality," it's irrelevant whether you believe one fear is justified and the other isn't; this essentially moral judgment is going to revolve around which of the sides you feel is more morally justified before the discussion started. What's more interesting is that the mentality is more widespread and doesn't require a basis in any particular or immediate threat, regardless of whether one can be said to exist.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 09:59:51 No. 16948
>>16946 >since that would mean recognizing that identities cannot simply be "set aside" and that ultimately, most appeals to doing so are really just a way of showing off your own identity (for example, as "anti-idpol") You're aware that people do sometimes adopt new identities online and offline, right? Identities can be set aside. Your answer in the spoiler implies the same thing.
If you're wanting to say that "one can't not have some identity," this is more ambiguous. In the sense that one can always be placed into "identity" categories by someone, sure, but this is trivially true of any entity. In the sense that one is bound to an identity, this isn't true. People do things that don't align with their sense of identity often enough, most evidently in statements like "I don't know why I just did that."
Although I find these accusations that opposition to identity politics is necessarily identitarian very much like "anti-racism is the real racism," in its presupposition of no alternatives outside of racial (or identity) thinking. One problem seems to be the conflation of a simple or trivial use of the word with a more serious or complex use. The senses are (usually) linked in some way, but the link isn't necessarily a rational commitment to the other meaning(s).
>The quickest technical hack around it would be to try and build a new broad-brush identity, like getting everyone to strongly feel that they're a communist. Ironically, those who're most responsible for this would be branded as treacherous liberals by most because they're the ones saying Jade Harley is communist, which - if you think of yourself as a very serious marxist who's above all this identity nonsense - is childish nonsense. Yes, it would be childish in its overestimation of the power of labels. Labels identify and, in this, can have an "ought" or directive character, but this directive character is historically determinate. If the label is applied to many different cases, its directive character toward any particular outcome is going to be weak or nonexistent.
Take "socialism" as it stands now for an example: if someone were to tell me she were a socialist, I wouldn't know what she meant exactly without further detail. She may mean something like "I'm a big supporter of Bernie Sanders," or she may mean "I finished Lenin's collected works last week." The label itself (like communism) does not have an immediately directive character toward any single end, but designates a variety of different ones. As can be seen in arguments over identity and who is or isn't a "real communist" here (or whether this week one is a liberal for supporting trans people, and next week one is a reactionary for opposing them), not all of these ends are compatible or can be made compatible in principle with one another.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 10:06:49 No. 16949
>>16935 >But why has it become so prevalent in the culture in, say, the past 13 or so years? I remember Tumblr from 2012-2016 was full of this way of thinking ("SJWs"). I read one theory (here, I think, a few days ago) that it's kinda like sublimated energy, and you saw it particularly from 2012-2016 because liberals and leftists were frustrated by Obama being a non-entity servant of Wall Street in his second term, and that energy has to go somewhere, so endless self-devouring SJW-ism and articles about "why we're finally done with straight white guys" functioned as substitute "victories." But that also declined considerably after Trump got in, and now you often see the right doing something with similar substance, while the liberals are satisfied to see the Republicans eat themselves. I'm worried the bad days of Tumblr will come back though, and I'm interested in trying to prevent that.
I wonder if instead of saying "identity politics" we should just say "ideology," which is a strange thing, because the real debate isn't always necessarily about whether straight and LGBTQ are equal and deserve equal rights, but fear of being "converted" or re-programmed with a new ideology, in this case "gender ideology." The same goes for those who fear Evangelical Christians making a move on non-Christians and implementing Christianity as a state religion.
>>16946 >The quickest technical hack around it would be to try and build a new broad-brush identity, like getting everyone to strongly feel that they're a communist. I was thinking "you do your shit and I do my shit and you don't mess with me and I don't mess with you." Basically, we shouldn't bother with "conversion." And less emphasis on identity would be good, but there's two parts of this. One is less paranoid/angry focus on the white male constituency of what used to be called the alt-right, as if they're some terrible bogeyman and the only people who have a monopoly on fascist ideas. But the other side of the deal is that also means no more coddling of them either, because mean words are not a sufficient condition for becoming a neo-Nazi. Something is already lacking in the heart and the head if people choose that over all the other possible responses to discourse that, rightly or wrongly, makes them uncomfortable.
>>16948 >As can be seen in arguments over identity and who is or isn't a "real communist" here (or whether this week one is a liberal for supporting trans people, and next week one is a reactionary for opposing them), not all of these ends are compatible or can be made compatible in principle with one another. I think this is also like "SJW-ism" but in another form, and basically a self-aggrandizing "game." Like a card game. If I'm a man, and I criticize a woman, the rules of this "game" means she can put her "feminist" card on the table and "cancel" me, but if I want to outsmart her then I can become "trans" (as an abstract "identity" here) and flip her card upside down and I don't have to actually change anything about myself, because I just identified that way. That's the magic of ideology and is basically how the game is played, or like Protestants vs. Catholics and "you're not a real Christian" or "you're not a real communist."
With respect to trans people, I think this phenomenon of identifying as trans and pulling my card out is also considerably different from trans people who really are oppressed, are often living in poverty or near it, have poor health outcomes, and their appearance is sometimes not so good and so they don't "pass" well (which relates to the poverty). And I think you can reason out from that particular, concrete example based on material analysis to a general indictment of capitalism which becomes a common basis to struggle together.
But basically, people identify in this way or that, and like to pull their cards. I learned a long time ago not to argue with such people, nor get defensive (out of fear) or try to "reason" them down as that will only encourage them and make them more hysterical. I try to be like clear water and open myself up and let their argument be its own undoing if it's based in pure ideology like that.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 16:05:24 No. 16950
>>16946 >>16949 I think of it like this: about 10 years ago we started seeing a huge amount of commodification of LGBTQ politics. This was right after Occupy was over and everyone had to accept Obama was going to do nothing to help the working-class. Now, in the 2020s you're seeing the exact same thing with "neurodiversity": autism, ADHD, BPD, etc. are all becoming commodified.
Someone made a thread on the other board (I think it's since deleted) about this very subject, how the same people who all started coming out as queer or gender non-conforming back in the early 2010s when queerness was still transgressive are now rushing to get diagnosed with autism or ADHD for the exact same reason. Queerness has become very accepted in many US states in spire of all the attacks in other states (Florida, Tennessee, Texas), and because queer people no longer feel like social outsiders, said individuals look for another thing they can pin on their alienation and inability to fit in which also gives them transgression points ("I subvert the system just by existing!"). The thing is, commodification of autism/ADHD is happening now that everyone realizes Biden is a total asshat who isn't going to undo whatever damage they see as having been done by Trump. It's the exact same paradigm from 10 years ago only with a different group.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 16:15:40 No. 16951
>>16950 (me)
Something else I've noticed along the same line: 10 years ago it was very common to see trans people (usually younger adults) talk on social media about how they don't feel "safe" with some even going so far as to say they don't feel safe around any cis people and can't leave their homes because of it. Now, you see younger autistic people saying the exact same thing, only this time they'll say something along the lines of: "I can't go to the store because masking is psychological torture for me."
While I'm not saying these people don't have real grievances, I find it telling how that mentality has become so common – "I don't feel safe in everyday life." That's the exact siege mentality I'm talking about.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 16:19:49 No. 16952
>>16942 >I had a shower thought awhile ago too that the collapse of postmodernism has led to a new culture of "survivalism," and that includes the actual preppers and survivalists but that's just one form of a general thing that takes many forms, and I'd reckon it's a combination of atomized Western societies and a declining standard of living (evaporation of the post-war middle class) with people trying to hold their lives together that's manifesting in the cultural superstructure. I see this a lot. But then you have marginalized groups who have never had that high standard of living who take on the exact same mentality, which is what makes this topic so difficult to understand. Both oppressed and oppressor believe the entire world wants them gone and is set on destroying them.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 18:08:34 No. 16954
>>16942 I think “survival” is the best way of putting it.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 19:32:42 No. 16955
The siege mentality is a product of neoliberal capitalism causing time to move too quickly like others on here have said. As things keep rapidly expanding into the future old groups and communities start breaking down. There’s a reason why most people with strong identities tend to be critical of historical progress: they know said progress means their identities might not exist if progress is able to continue. They all want to stop time in the name of identity-preservation.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 20:21:24 No. 16956
>>1447268
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 20:24:48 No. 16957
>>1447268 >You've been conditioned to normalize child experimentation so that pharma companies and hospitals can rake in profits on drugs and surgeries.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 20:28:10 No. 16958
>>16955 >There’s a reason why most people with strong identities tend to be critical of historical progress: they know said progress means their identities might not exist if progress is able to continue. Such as? All the leftists I know are very big on science and historical progress.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 20:31:21 No. 16959
>>16951 >I find it telling how that mentality has become so common – "I don't feel safe in everyday life." Yeah, again OP you’re flat out ignoring class dynamics and all you’ve done in this thread is insist people with power hold the same siege mentality as the people they oppress. You’re basically saying there’s no difference between victims of genocide trying to preserve themselves and perpetuators of genocide trying to preserve themselves. It’s like you think all violence is bad because it’s violence.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 20:35:34 No. 16960
>>1447281
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 21:11:53 No. 16962
>>16961 Are there new studies that are very high quality and include control groups? Or is this just british state media claiming that the old studies are wrong and then not doing a study correctly to prove that the old ones were wrong?
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 21:39:28 No. 16963
>>16962 The media is only summarizing a report put out by the british National Institute of Health Care Excellence (NICE). NICE only studies medical trends/literature to make reports and give recommendations. In this case they found that the literature lacked any sort of quality evidence for this treatment.
The NHS (National Health Services) can decide whether or not to hold a large trial to determine the risks of using this treatment or they can curtail this treatment altogether and recommend against it.
If a long-term, high quality trial had been completed within the last 2 and a half years, I'm sure the news would've reported on it and the person who claimed to have studies would have linked it.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 21:51:14 No. 16964
>>16961 So why are most people who transitioned as kids perfectly healthy?
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 23:00:49 No. 16965
>>16924 Siege mentality is a pushback against capitalism in decay.
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 23:26:53 No. 16966
>>16964 Do you have a study to back up that claim?
Anonymous 2023-04-27 (Thu) 23:30:50 No. 16967
>>16942 That would also be Christopher Lasch's "culture of narcissism" thesis. This is from the "sequel" book,
The Minimal Self :
>The social changes so far summarized—the substitution of observation and measurement for authoritative, “judgmental” types of social sanctions; the transformation of politics into administration; the replacement of skilled labor by machinery; the redefinition of education as “manpower selection,” designed not so much to instill work skills as to classify workers and to assign them either to the small class of administrators, technicians, and managers who make decisions or to the larger class of minimally skilled workers who merely carry out instructions—have gradually transformed a productive system based on handicraft production and regional exchange into a complex, interlocking network of technologies based on mass production, mass consumption, mass communications, mass culture: on the assimilation of all activities, even those formerly assigned to private life, to the demands of the marketplace. >These developments have created a new kind of selfhood, characterized by some observers as self-seeking, hedonistic, competitive, and “antinomian,” by others as cooperative, “self-actualizing,” and enlightened. By this time, it should be clear that neither description captures the prevailing sense of self. The first sees consumerism only as an invitation to self-indulgence. It deplores “materialism” and the desire for “things” and misses the more insidious effects of a culture of consumption, which dissolves the world of substantial things (far from reinforcing it), replaces it with a shadowy world of images, and thus obliterates the boundaries between the self and its surroundings. Critics of “hedonism” attribute its increasing appeal to the collapse of educational standards, the democratization of an “adversary culture” that formerly appealed only to the intellectual avant-garde, and the decline of political authority and leadership. They complain that people think too much about rights instead of thinking about duties. They complain about the pervasive sense of “entitlement” and the claim to unearned privileges. All these arguments invite the reply that although a democratic culture may offend “champions of public order and high culture,” as Theodore Roszak calls them, it gives ordinary people access to a better life and a wider range of “options.” >Neither party to this debate stops to question the reality of choices that have no lasting consequences. Neither side questions the debased conception of democracy that reduces it, in effect, to the exercise of consumer preferences. Neither side questions the equation of selfhood with the ability to play a variety of roles and to assume an endless variety of freely chosen identities. What he's hinting at is the ties of this form of "personhood" or "social character" to Debord's "society of the spectacle." Moreover:
>In its liberal use of labels, its addiction to slogans, its reduction of cultural change to simplified sets of opposite characteristics, and its conviction that reality is an illusion, this simpleminded case for “cultural revolution” betrays its affinity with the consumerism it claims to repudiate. The most glaring weakness of this argument, however—and of the whole debate in which it is immersed—is the equation of narcissism with “selfishness of an extreme form,” in the words of Daniel Yankelovich. The terms have little in common. Narcissism signifies a loss of selfhood, not self-assertion. It refers to a self threatened with disintegration and by a sense of inner emptiness. To avoid confusion, what I have called the culture of narcissism might better be characterized, at least for the moment, as a culture of survivalism. Everyday life has begun to pattern itself on the survival strategies forced on those exposed to extreme adversity. Selective apathy, emotional disengagement from others, renunciation of the past and the future, a determination to live one day at a time—these techniques of emotional self-management, necessarily carried to extremes under extreme conditions, in more moderate form have come to shape the lives of ordinary people under the ordinary conditions of a bureaucratic society widely perceived as a far-flung system of total control. >Confronted with an apparently implacable and unmanageable environment, people have turned to self-management. With the help of an elaborate network of therapeutic professions, which themselves have largely abandoned approaches stressing introspective insight in favor of “coping” and behavior modification, men and women today are trying to piece together a technology of the self, the only apparent alternative to personal collapse. Among many people, the fear that man will be enslaved by his machines has given way to a hope that man will become something like a machine in his own right and thereby achieve a state of mind “beyond freedom and dignity,” in the words of B. F. Skinner. Behind the injunction to “get in touch with your feelings”—a remnant of an earlier “depth” psychology—lies the now-familiar insistence that there is no depth, no desire even, and that the human personality is merely a collection of needs programmed either by biology or by culture. >We are not likely to get any closer to an understanding of contemporary culture as long as we define the poles of debate as selfishness and self-absorption, on the one hand, and self-fulfillment or introspection on the other. According to Peter Clecak, selfishness is the “deficit side” of cultural liberation—an “unavoidable byproduct of the quest for fulfillment.” It is a part of contemporary culture that must not be confused with the whole. “Though they are plausible to a degree, characterizations of America as a selfish culture typically confuse excesses with norms, by-products with central and on the whole salutary outcomes of the quest” for self-fulfillment. But the question is not whether the salutary effects of “personhood” outweigh hedonism and self-seeking. The question is whether any of these terms capture either the prevailing patterns of psychological relations or the prevailing definition of selfhood. >The dominant conception of personality sees the self as a helpless victim of external circumstances. This is the view encouraged both by our twentieth-century experience of domination and by the many varieties of twentieth-century social thought that reach their climax in behaviorism. It is not a view likely to encourage either a revival of old-fashioned acquisitive individualism (which presupposed far more confidence about the future than most people have today) or the kind of search for self-fulfillment celebrated by Clecak, Yankelovich, and other optimists. A genuine affirmation of the self, after all, insists on a core of selfhood not subject to environmental determination, even under extreme conditions. Self-affirmation remains a possibility precisely to the degree that an older conception of personality, rooted in Judaeo-Christian traditions, has persisted alongside a behavioral or therapeutic conception. But this kind of self-affirmation, which remains a potential source of democratic renewal, has nothing in common with the current search for psychic survival—the varieties of which we must now examine in some detail. Anonymous 2023-04-28 (Fri) 02:22:04 No. 16968
It's conspiracy theories + idpol + legitimate grievances.
Anonymous 2023-04-28 (Fri) 03:59:24 No. 16969
>>16958 How many nations existed 1000 years ago that don't exist today?
Anonymous 2023-04-28 (Fri) 04:21:16 No. 16970
>>16969 Bruh can we have the Goths back they were pretty cool, Maybe the Huns too fuck it.
Anonymous 2023-04-28 (Fri) 07:14:15 No. 16971
>>16951 Its not a "siege mentality" its called agoraphobia and social anxiety. Youre forcing your own label onto things that have their own explanations
Anonymous 2023-04-28 (Fri) 17:04:18 No. 16972
>>16932 This is a good take that I never see here, it needs a reply.
Anonymous 2023-04-28 (Fri) 17:42:36 No. 16973
>>16971 It's a lot more than agoraphobia. When you believe everyone around you wants to kill you or commit eugenics against you to the point where you won't walk down the street to go grocery shopping by yourself the issue is obviously cultural.
Anonymous 2023-04-28 (Fri) 19:55:12 No. 16974
>>16973 Please back up your claim that this is some widespread phenomenon. I'm an autistic trans person myself and youre blowing this out of proportion.
Anonymous 2023-04-28 (Fri) 20:40:44 No. 16975
Protip: even conspiracy theories that empower the oppressed are still conspiracy theories. And the siege mentality you’re describing is exactly that.
Anonymous 2023-04-28 (Fri) 20:45:21 No. 16976
>>16974 Are you MTF or FTM?
I ask because this matters.
Anonymous 2023-04-28 (Fri) 20:52:22 No. 16977
>>16942 >I'd reckon it's a combination of atomized Western societies and a declining standard of living (evaporation of the post-war middle class) with people trying to hold their lives together that's manifesting in the cultural superstructure. /thread
People can’t cope with reality so they believe all of society apart from their in-group is conspiring against them.
Anonymous 2023-04-29 (Sat) 16:57:21 No. 16978
What you’re describing OP is the breakdown of trust in society. When people lack a firm foundation they start believing no one can be trusted and everyone around them has malicious intent against them.
Anonymous 2023-04-29 (Sat) 22:03:07 No. 16980
>>16930 >Reactionary cishets mad about trans people is entirely manufactured though lol
<transexuals transition <start beating foids with ease <women get buttmad and tell everyone they know and it starts to become big news >this is entirely manufactured manufactured by trans people perhaps
Anonymous 2023-04-29 (Sat) 22:08:03 No. 16981
>>16980 <start beating foids with ease Where is this happening and who is talking about it?
Anonymous 2023-04-30 (Sun) 05:15:42 No. 16982
>>16981 didn't you see that trans woman who came ahead of thousands of cis women to win the london marathon?
(if by "win" you mean "came lower than 6000th and got a consolation medal absolutely identical to the one they'd have won if they registered as a man, but nevertheless became an international story because this is definitely newsworthy and not outrage bait if you just say she came ahead of some other women, leaving out that she also came behind a lot of other women.", which would be no less disingenuous a language trick than that employed by the press here.)
Anonymous 2023-04-30 (Sun) 11:55:08 No. 16983
>>16982 the pic that was getting spreaded around clearly had (cis) male runners in the background as well kek
it's literal baby shit. not even trying
Anonymous 2023-04-30 (Sun) 15:59:19 No. 16984
>>16977 >>16978 >>16979 I get that. But there has to be a broader cultural phenomenon which is driving nearly everyone to think this way. "I don't feel safe walking down the street because I'm autistic and trans or [insert identity here]" has become way more prevalent in the past 15 years.
Anonymous 2023-04-30 (Sun) 16:07:18 No. 16985
the question presumes the answer. obviously there are groups that are being targeted by large forces that wish to destroy them. you're assuming already that it is irrational or an incorrect analysis in your question, but they're right. Marxist determinist bros ignore the problems of real indiviudals and suggest they should just focus on some myopic revolution that will never happen so long as they keep playing into normality politics and refuse to update their understanding of the world in line with the current year. capitalist economics are not the be-all end-all of people's problems. alienation in general in service of capital is the problem, not merely 'u took my surplus value!!!' get real bozos.
Anonymous 2023-04-30 (Sun) 16:10:10 No. 16986
>>16985 you overlook that not all of these fears are justified.
oversimplifying: if white genocide is real, the black man on the street has little to fear from racism. if racism is endemic in US society, the white nationalist has little to fear from black people.
Anonymous 2023-04-30 (Sun) 17:23:55 No. 16987
>>16985 Both oppressed and oppressor groups believe there's a nefarious force lingering in the background getting ready to "wipe them out". You can't reduce it all to very real oppression when white Christian cishet males in so-called Middle America have the same siege mentality as autistic trans BIPOC in the cities.
Anonymous 2023-04-30 (Sun) 17:25:02 No. 16988
>>16986 so there's a fundamental difference isnt there, which means lumping them together in the same category as if they're all paranoia stemming from the same thing is kind of nonsense
Anonymous 2023-04-30 (Sun) 17:27:35 No. 16989
>>16988 What are the "larger forces" at play if not capitalism?
Who is the "invisible enemy" try to wipe everyone out?
Anonymous 2023-04-30 (Sun) 18:12:23 No. 16990
>>16989 Everyone knows the big collapse is coming and the ruling class is going to start committing mass eugenics. The real question is *who* is going to be the primary target of eugenics. So, trans people think it’s them, straight white Christian males believe it’s them, etc.
Anonymous 2023-04-30 (Sun) 19:46:56 No. 16991
>>16990 LOL how is the ruling class committing eugenics against white cishet males?
Anonymous 2023-05-01 (Mon) 05:36:52 No. 16992
>>16989 >What are the "larger forces" at play if not capitalism? Transphobes dude. The people in power are trans phobic. In general capitalism is the problem. But in specific the problem manifests in specific ways. Like Christian fascist enforcement of cishet norms.
Anonymous 2023-05-01 (Mon) 05:38:14 No. 16993
People are addicted to indignation. The oppression is real, however, the real target isnt always what you think it is.
Anonymous 2023-05-01 (Mon) 06:56:42 No. 16995
>>16984 You're talking about some subset of autistic people as if they're not autistic. They're predisposed to being anxious. It's pretty straight-forward.
Anonymous 2023-05-01 (Mon) 06:58:40 No. 16996
>>16995 GAD SAD SS Disorder
Anonymous 2023-05-01 (Mon) 07:00:21 No. 16998
>>16995 youre saying this like its part of being autistic and not comorbidity
Anonymous 2023-05-01 (Mon) 07:04:21 No. 17000
>>16995 Social anxiety is an extremely common autistic trait.
Anonymous 2023-05-01 (Mon) 07:05:13 No. 17001
>>17000 its not an autistic trait
->
>>16998 Anonymous 2023-05-01 (Mon) 07:05:20 No. 17002
>>16998 When does a particular trait cease to be part of a condition and become a "comorbdity"?
Anonymous 2023-05-01 (Mon) 07:07:05 No. 17003
>>17002 social anxiety is its own disorder
leftypol is fucking embarrassing whenever the topic of formal mental problems comes up lol its like the kind of trash i have to see on social media from people wanting to feel special
Anonymous 2023-05-01 (Mon) 07:07:30 No. 17004
>>1450362
Anonymous 2023-05-01 (Mon) 07:08:28 No. 17005
>>17002 >>17003 You both lost the moment you started thinking in terms of diagnoses and not individual symptoms.
Anonymous 2023-05-01 (Mon) 07:15:42 No. 17007
>>16982 >came ahead of thousands of cis women to win the london marathon I'm sure the woman who got 6,289th place instead of 6,288th is going to be so pissed.
Anonymous 2023-05-01 (Mon) 07:22:36 No. 17008
I'm aware some people's oppression is real but neuroticism and fear have never done anyone, except the police state, any good.
Anonymous 2023-05-01 (Mon) 16:52:46 No. 17009
>>17008 Exactly, which is the whole point of me making this thread.
Anonymous 2023-05-01 (Mon) 16:57:18 No. 17010
>>1450367
Anonymous 2023-05-01 (Mon) 17:25:08 No. 17011
>>16953 OP, your article answered your own question on its first page:
>)It is the fear of cultural extinction (whether defined in ethnic, racial or broader - including language, beliefs or behavioral - terms) that prompts the emergence of what may be identified as siege groups or cultures. TL;DR - in diverse societies with hierarchies you see different in-groups competing for power for the sake of survival.
Anonymous 2023-05-01 (Mon) 19:00:29 No. 17012
>>17010 >>17010 everyone does. Even the over-30 crowd. People are literally addicted to indignation. Lokk at the social media bans theyre doing under the guise of "protecting the youth".
Anonymous 2023-05-01 (Mon) 19:31:58 No. 17013
>>17010 No one outside of Twitter, IG, and TikTok believes autistic people amount to a "strong identity group" akin to religious or cultural groups. I've been on the far-left since I was a teenager in the mid 2000s and not a single comrade I knew began heavily identifying as "autistic" or "neurodivergent" up until like three years ago.
Now you see weirdos like 40-year old married mothers with PhDs referring to themselves as "high support needs AuDHDer" which is asinine. But that didn't exist until like the turn of the last decade.
Anonymous 2023-05-02 (Tue) 07:04:48 No. 17014
>>17012 So you agree with the entire premise of my thread?
Anonymous 2023-05-02 (Tue) 09:01:07 No. 17015
>>17014 Yes, he does. Because he is retarded
Anonymous 2023-05-03 (Wed) 04:46:21 No. 17016
>>17013 >I've been on the far-left since I was a teenager in the mid 2000s and not a single comrade I knew began heavily identifying as "autistic" or "neurodivergent" up until like three years ago. Which should ask why autism and ADHD are now political identities when they weren't at the height of the so-called "autism epidemic" of the 2000s when everyone hated and feared autism.
If they're engaging in disability tourism then it's pretty obvious they're fishing for vulnerability points. "Look at how weak and fragile I am," etc.
I think it's also important to note that most of these people only exist on the internet. There's a reason why a lot of autistic leftists (most of them college-aged) will talk big on Twitter/IG but can't handle IRL organizing, because most comrades in IRL organizing are neurotypical or have a basic understanding of maturity and meaningful social interaction. The reason why it seems like half the communists on Twitter are on the spectrum is because those are the people who are chronically online and do nothing else of significance.
Anonymous 2023-05-03 (Wed) 21:58:58 No. 17017
Why would capitalism care about preserving identities?
Anonymous 2023-05-03 (Wed) 22:00:47 No. 17018
>>17017 ignoring the anthropomorphizing of capitalism there has been a schizophrenic tendency in fracturing existing identities into smaller ever-changing consumer niches
Anonymous 2023-05-05 (Fri) 04:39:17 No. 17019
>>17018 >there has been a schizophrenic tendency in fracturing existing identities into smaller ever-changing consumer niches You think that's related to the siege mentality at all?
Anonymous 2023-05-05 (Fri) 23:49:40 No. 17021
>>16924 Covid made it 100x worse. I see a much bigger siege mentality among the disabled for instance.
Anonymous 2023-05-06 (Sat) 04:06:39 No. 17022
>>17021 And anti-maskers/anti-vaxxers don't also feel like they're under siege?
There are people who will claim not wearing a mask and getting vaxxed is eugenics. There are also people who believe the masks and covid vaccine are eugenics.
It's not one-sided.
Anonymous 2023-05-06 (Sat) 18:49:50 No. 17023
The siege mentality will always be reactionary. No questions.
Anonymous 2023-05-06 (Sat) 20:21:26 No. 17024
>>17023 I mean, look at how good-meaning comrades are more concerned about stopping transphobes and “Russian propagandists” from having a platform than they are fighting really fucked up measures of repression like the RESTRICT Act which could make it illegal to be a communist or anarchist on the internet.
Anonymous 2023-05-06 (Sat) 21:32:41 No. 17025
>>16924 It’s an expression of narcissism: “the whole world revolves around me and my identity group, we’re the subject of history”, etc.
Anonymous 2023-05-07 (Sun) 16:48:12 No. 17026
Overall it's what other people on here have said: inability to cope with all the extreme changes that have happened in the world over the past 30-40 years.
Anonymous 2023-05-07 (Sun) 17:09:31 No. 17027
>>17026 Underated effortpost
Anonymous 2023-05-07 (Sun) 17:14:19 No. 17028
>>17027 To be hones, the widely acclaimed speaker, writer, journalist, and political analyst Caleb Maupin would be so much better if he just made his arguments like that instead of the bullshit he currently uses.
Anonymous 2023-05-07 (Sun) 18:36:02 No. 17029
>>17026 >Ironically, the covid situation has forced the left to return to science and rationality. Seven years ago the left claimed conventional science was "colonial" and "eurocentric", now coming off the heels of the pandemic the left is now demanding everyone back the medical establishment and if you don't you're a fascist or eugenicist (personally I'm pro-mask and very pro-vaccine, I'm just making a point about leftist hypocrisy). There’s nothing hypocritical about this. 10 years ago it made sense for the left to question conventional medicine and promote things like indigenous herbal medicine to show the West doesn’t have the monopoly on knowledge and healing. Now that covid has decimated marginalized communities it makes sense to show why conventional medicine is the answer since smudging won’t kill the virus. It’s not about being loyal to a certain epistemology but about defending the marginalized.
Anonymous 2023-05-07 (Sun) 19:00:36 No. 17030
>>17029 >It’s not about being loyal to a certain epistemology but about defending the marginalized. Which is exactly why the right clowns us.
Anonymous 2023-05-07 (Sun) 19:04:18 No. 17031
>>17026 Part of being a Marxist means questioning the whole notion of absolute truth.
Your thesis is a dumpster fire.
Anonymous 2023-05-07 (Sun) 19:05:19 No. 17032
>>17030 >Which is exactly why the right clowns us. what fucking mental reality do you inhabit?
Anonymous 2023-05-07 (Sun) 19:24:24 No. 17033
>>17031 You sure?
>Communism is the riddle of history solved and it knows itself to be this solution Anonymous 2023-05-07 (Sun) 19:38:27 No. 17034
>>17031 That's just postmodern gobbledygook
Anonymous 2023-05-07 (Sun) 20:23:01 No. 17035
>>17034 Explain. Marxism is supposed to deconstruct everything in society.
Anonymous 2023-05-07 (Sun) 20:34:16 No. 17036
>>17026 If you didn’t have an ancomm flag I’d assume this post was made by Carlos of Midwestern Marx.
Anonymous 2023-05-07 (Sun) 22:09:52 No. 17037
>>17025 Trans people don’t claim history revolves around them…
Anonymous 2023-05-07 (Sun) 23:01:50 No. 17039
>>17038
Anonymous 2023-05-08 (Mon) 08:05:14 No. 17040
>>17026 >The left doesn't give a shit about intellect anymore; it cares about vulnerability. Intellectuals who are able to interpret the world in such a way that creates a catalyst for change are seen as elitist and supremacist so leftists decide theory should only be based on the personal lived experiences of the most vulnerable. Intellect isn't the end-all-be-all. What about people with intellectual disabilities? Should they be excluded from the struggle?
Anonymous 2023-05-08 (Mon) 16:14:50 No. 17041
>>17040 It's not an issue of "should". It's an issue of "can". If they can't participate because they lack intellect then they're not going to participate. You can dumb down "the struggle" to make it whatever you believe inclusive entails but if someone doesn't have the ability to do what's needed for socialism to be built then why waste time pandering to them?
Anonymous 2023-05-08 (Mon) 16:17:10 No. 17043
>>17029 The left literally went from promoting herbal medicine as "decolonizing your health" to "herbal medicine is fascist" within a very short amount of time. That indicates inconsistency which has become way too apparent nowadays. No one can keep their ideology for more than three years before flipping, because the goal is about looking moral and vulnerable (like I said in my big post) not about looking like you have the answer.
Anonymous 2023-05-08 (Mon) 16:54:55 No. 17044
>>17042
Anonymous 2023-05-08 (Mon) 17:54:14 No. 17045
>>17041 Intellect still isn't the end-all-be-all and your statement is borderline ableist.
Anonymous 2023-05-08 (Mon) 17:55:41 No. 17046
>>17043 <The left literally went from promoting herbal medicine as "decolonizing your health" to "herbal medicine is fascist" within a very short amount of time. This is your brain on burgers and high-fructose corn syrup
Anonymous 2023-05-08 (Mon) 18:52:38 No. 17047
>>17038
Anonymous 2023-05-08 (Mon) 18:58:12 No. 17048
>>17026 Screencapped and saved.
Anonymous 2023-05-08 (Mon) 20:02:32 No. 17050
>>17049
Anonymous 2023-05-08 (Mon) 22:44:03 No. 17051
>>17043 Kek, I remember when the left was dead set against any kind of psychiatric medication and now they’ve completely changed their tune to the point where they claim they’ll die if they can’t get their Adderall.
Anonymous 2023-05-09 (Tue) 03:40:31 No. 17052
>>17045 I'm sorry, but if you're a radical leftist activist part of your job is to EDUCATE the masses of people, and education requires intellect to some degree or another. The reason why Maupin and Haz have such die-hard followings is because they actually attempt to "show the light" to their followers, whether or not what they're saying is true. Most leftist YouTubers/"Breadtubers" don't do that, rather they make video after video pandering to marginalized identity groups.
>>17047 >The more we realize social norms are constructed to serve the power structure the more we can change the culture to become more accepting of social outsiders. Because PoMo isn't supposed to change anything. It's supposed to make you skeptical of everything and anything without giving you an alternative. Wanting to be seen in a positive light by The Other isn't activism. It's narcissistic supply.
>>17051 When I first became an anarchist in the late 2000s "neurodivergent" wasn't a political identity like it is now. Most of the comrades I was working with were at least 10 (if not 12-15) years older than me (Gen Xers/Xennials, basically) and they came from a completely different ballgame as well. If you were autistic/ADHD you had to work on your social deficiencies. You weren't given a get-out-of-jail free card like you are today.
Maybe, it's because even as late as 16 years ago comrades still held something of a notion of working together for a common mission.
Anonymous 2023-05-09 (Tue) 17:59:02 No. 17053
>>17052 >When I first became an anarchist in the late 2000s "neurodivergent" wasn't a political identity like it is now. Most of the comrades I was working with were at least 10 (if not 12-15) years older than me (Gen Xers/Xennials, basically) and they came from a completely different ballgame as well. If you were autistic/ADHD you had to work on your social deficiencies. You weren't given a get-out-of-jail free card like you are today. It's almost like since then we've discovered more insight about mental health and no longer buy into the idea someone's innate personality is separate from how their brain is wired.
Anonymous 2023-05-09 (Tue) 18:04:22 No. 17054
>>17053 That's what disability pensions are for not political organizing
Anonymous 2023-05-09 (Tue) 18:05:54 No. 17055
>>17054 So we exclude neurodivergent comrades from political organizing?
Anonymous 2023-05-09 (Tue) 18:08:00 No. 17056
>>17054 (me)
For online discussions I lean the other direction and want even the literal schizophrenics to speak
Interestingly the sorts who generally want to make all sorts of insane counterproductive concessions for whatever and talk a big game want to shut them up and ban them I've noticed though
Anonymous 2023-05-09 (Tue) 18:09:42 No. 17058
>>17057 What about those of us who can't organize like NT folks can? Not all of us can stay focused. Not all of us can go to marches. Not all of us can socialize with others easily. What role do we have in organizing?
Anonymous 2023-05-09 (Tue) 18:18:28 No. 17059
>>17058 Learn how to or volunteer for moderation duties here → >>1416319
Also study theory
Serious there's so many important effort posts I should be making since I've studied Marx Engel's, Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Kollontai, etc etc etc that I simply don't have time to because I work full time and so few people do the neccesary reading
Please if you can be a theorist and study the theory and develop it that would be amazing
Anonymous 2023-05-09 (Tue) 18:27:13 No. 17060
>>17053 >>17055 >>17058 No one is obligated to "dumb down" the revolution for you. Either you put in effort IRL or you don't. If you're incapable of contributing in any meaningful way to the struggle then you have no business demanding other comrades halt our efforts to ensure you get credit for doing nothing.
No one is going to dismantle the barricades or stop fighting police because some autistic 19-year old shut-in feels left out. Stop being so self-absorbed.
And this is the exact problem I keep addressing: what it means to be left-wing has gone from: "we are going to successfully overthrow capitalism" to: "I'm weak and vulnerable, PITY ME".
A few weeks ago Luna Oi (of all people) said something very interesting on her stream. She made a point how when the Vietnamese Communist Party was being formed under the tyranny of French colonialism members had to take an oath to never commit suicide. The reason being was that regardless of how horrible you were suffering under the colonial system it was far more important that you fought against the colonial system to abolish it. Whatever was going on in *your* brain was secondary to the collective struggle.
I honestly blame social media for a lot of this bullshit. Back when I started out social media was still in its infancy and in order to be a "leftist" you had to be politically active and involved in organizing. How, being a "leftist" amounts to posting on Twitter all day and calling everything oppressive without doing anything to change things. People think they deserve credit just because they've taken on a label without any of the depth associated with it.
Anonymous 2023-05-09 (Tue) 19:01:12 No. 17061
>>17026 Love this analysis. Will make note.
Anonymous 2023-05-09 (Tue) 19:43:34 No. 17062
If people acquire a siege mentality due to competition for resources and power then it’s obvious this is neoliberalism hitting the fan. You only have so much wealth between the lower classes so when you, say, let women or BIPOC into mainstream society they compete with white Christian males and white Christian males now have to compete for power with way more people. Neoliberalism has made this way worse.
Anonymous 2023-05-09 (Tue) 20:00:47 No. 17064
>>17060 >A few weeks ago Luna Oi (of all people) said something very interesting on her stream. She made a point how when the Vietnamese Communist Party was being formed under the tyranny of French colonialism members had to take an oath to never commit suicide. The reason being was that regardless of how horrible you were suffering under the colonial system it was far more important that you fought against the colonial system to abolish it. Whatever was going on in *your* brain was secondary to the collective struggle. Kek, I remember a post on Twitter where OP asked other leftists what’s stopping them from owning a gun.
90% of them said they were suffering from mental health issues and would use a gun on themselves if given one.
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 03:23:43 No. 17065
>>17061 I hope I helped you with your dissertation.
>>17063 There's nothing ableist about anything I've been saying. If you want communism/socialism you will require the working class to be highly intelligent or educated at the very least. There's a reason why the Wobbly slogan was always EDUCATE, agitate, organize. You can't make an effective revolution with low-autism score individuals. That's just reality.
But yes. The contemporary left thinks having more intellectually impaired people in the world is good, because the left sees being a vulnerable child as being the most redemptive thing one can possibly be. Because you don't care, you just want morality points.
>>17064 I've struggled with mental illness in my life too, but what's kept me going all these years is knowing my actions can make a difference in the world. There were times I was at rock bottom but pulled myself out of it with the help of others, but mostly because I knew I had something to win that was bigger than myself.
That's the attitude all comrade should have, not this "I'm too weak and fragile" bullshit that doesn't lead to anything positive.
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 03:27:12 No. 17066
>>17063 >Revolution begins in the body. please say syke
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 03:28:57 No. 17067
>>17026 >the way the left has become so identity-obsessed to the point where they've fully embraced solipsism and its child standpoint epistemology that they see everything in the world in terms of individual identity This is just the effect neoliberalism has had on literally the whole world in the past half century. It's a consumer thing, not a socialist thing.
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 03:30:11 No. 17068
>>17034 >>17038 you dont even know what the terms youre using mean
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 04:06:08 No. 17070
>>17069
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 04:47:48 No. 17072
>>17070 How do you understand the difference between PoMo and HistMat, then?
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 04:52:47 No. 17073
>>17072 the philosophers who american troglodytes call "pomos" have almost nothing in common and many of them were marxists lmao
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 05:29:13 No. 17074
>>17073 Foucault and Derrida were explicitly anti-Marxist.
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 05:35:15 No. 17075
>>17074 uh no, derrida even identified as a marxist
so that makes it 1 out of dozens, and foucault just had a beef with mls when he joined an ml party and they all turned out to be homophobes lmao
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 05:41:53 No. 17077
>>17060 All of this.
Organizing isn't babysitting. If you can't handle it, stop complaining.
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 05:45:17 No. 17078
>>17075 ahhh sorry i was wrong,
>>17076 reminded me that derrida avoided labeling himself but he was one of the few notable figures who came out in defense of marxism just as the soviet union fell. he also shat on fukuyama, his fans and anyone who thought like him
he also warned about defanging marxism of any revolutionary potential, the same thing leftoid brainlets accuse """"pomos"""" of doing
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 06:42:07 No. 17079
>>17026 >Why are trans comrades constantly appealing to capitalist science in order to affirm their transitions and trans identities? Do you know what gender dysphoria actually entails?
Do you realize trans people become gravely depressed and suicidal if they can't affirm their identities through medical transition?
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 06:52:59 No. 17080
>>17026 >Seven years ago the left claimed conventional science was "colonial" and "eurocentric", Who?
XD
>>17043 Nobody cares about hippies and new age bullshit, why is this your idea of "the left"
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 06:55:37 No. 17081
>>17079 I definitely have heard horror stories like that, nb people not getting care because "they don't need it to be trans". So validating!
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 19:43:03 No. 17082
>>17079 Why does needing medical care require you to cape for the capitalist medical establishment?
A better solution would be for comrades to go into the medical field and establish their own practices for trans folks as an alternative.
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 19:44:54 No. 17083
>>17080 “New Age bullshit” used to be a leftist thing 10 years ago. It’s only now in a post-covid world that the left is denouncing indigenous medicines, etc. as “fascist”.
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 19:49:06 No. 17084
>>17067 I agree, but it’s being portrayed more and more as a requirement to be a leftist, which like I said becomes counter-intuitive when it stalls any kind of real leftist action.
If everything is rooted in standpoint epistemology you can’t engage in a truly collective struggle for a goal that transcends the will of individuals, because you have zero way of determine what is better than another thing. So for instance we can no longer say “it’s better to be intelligent and strong than it is to be stupid and weak” because someone is going to insist that there’s nothing wrong with being stupid and weak and we should just change the way we view things so stupidness and weakness are now seen as assets. Which is a huge detriment if you’re actually serious about defeating capitalism.
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 20:01:05 No. 17085
>>17084 I remember watching Chomsky lectures from the 90s where he said the ruling class deliberately dumbs down the masses because stupider people are way less likely to revolt and hold the government accountable. No idea why the left thinks lack of intellect is bad for capitalism when capitalists want to keep us anti-intellectual.
Anonymous 2023-05-10 (Wed) 22:07:20 No. 17086
>>17085 Yes, and now we glorify lack of intellect as something redeeming.
Anonymous 2023-05-11 (Thu) 15:16:36 No. 17087
>>17026 > Because you can't rely on any kind of science (including HistMat and DiaMat) to make fact-value judgements you have no way of determining whether or not A is better than B, or C is healthier than D, or X is more indicative of a more desirable society than Y. Or, you question the whole concept of "healthy" to begin with and insist that all previous understandings of "health" were all rooted in deception. Sorry bro but this is also the view of HistMat. What's designated as "better" or "more healthy" is a product of ruling class propaganda designed to further the needs of capital.
Anonymous 2023-05-11 (Thu) 15:25:58 No. 17088
>>17026 What is "The Left" at this point other than the radical far-left wing of Neoliberalism? They're more passionate and willing anti-Communists than even the fascists. They firmly reject the political for the personal. They are more consistent in supporting interventionism that the Right, always telling everybody that "Its different this time" and telling people to vote Democrat/NDP/Labour/SPD/whatever.
>>17047 Because Post-modernism denies anything else other than the self and explicitly forcloses any action as "authoritarian" and pointless. A more Neoliberal ideology I cannot imagine.
>>17049 Undialectical. You cannot "Return" no matter how much you may want to. Modernism, like everything else, was always destined to be superseded by the contradictions inherent to it, just as Post-modernism will eventually be superseded.
Anonymous 2023-05-11 (Thu) 18:43:44 No. 17090
>>17026 >>17060 I agree with everything you’re saying but you’re missing a very vital element here. The people pushing autistic idpol and “neurodiversity” are overwhelmingly PMC namely teachers, nurses and social workers. They push for more autism/ADHD screenings because the more autistic/ADHD kids there are the more the PMC cements its power since special Ed teachers and social workers will be more in-demand. Meanwhile the actual proletariat hates this neurodiversity shit because they’re the ones who have to raise these kids and see autism/ADHD for what it is, not the sanitized version you see on IG and TikTok. I’m convinced this neuro idpol is another means for the PMC to beat down on working people.
Anonymous 2023-05-11 (Thu) 18:51:30 No. 17092
>>17091
Anonymous 2023-05-11 (Thu) 20:44:58 No. 17093
>>17011 This sums it up.
It’s also accurate to say the reason you see so many people stringing together all their identity labels is because the more marginalized categories they fit into the more justification they have to demand entitlement to power and resources.
Anonymous 2023-05-11 (Thu) 21:29:58 No. 17094
>>17022 The vaccines were new and experimental. They didn't go through trials because governments wanted to deal with the pandemic as quickly as possible.
The public vaccination program was the trial. At every stage of development, both before and after they were widely distributed we were told they worked. After a couple years and some hindsight we can see that most of these vaccines were duds. They didn't work very well. In some cases they caused heart problems.
Covid mutated faster than any vaccine could've developed, and even after they knew the vaccines were ineffective against the new strains we were told to go and get them, get boosters, etc.
I don't see this as eugenics, after all, the motive wasn't to sterilize people, but to profit off of a government program. The government said they'd pay for all the covid vaccines, so companies double- and triple-dipped by providing boosters for the government to market and pay for. Everyone got paid, and since the product was rushed, there was no worry about quality.
Anonymous 2023-05-11 (Thu) 21:41:15 No. 17095
>>17037 C'mon now. Trans people claim that they've existed historically, and even in other cultures as "two spirits" or xyz crossdressing group in xyz foreign culture. In these examples they're applying a uniquely western form of transsexual identity to both history and nonwestern cultures. They've also claimed that being trans is a form of transhumanism/evolution. Pretty clear how highly they think of themselves.
Anonymous 2023-05-11 (Thu) 22:16:14 No. 17096
>>17095 and then you call other people "tumblrinas"
Anonymous 2023-05-11 (Thu) 22:52:46 No. 17097
>>17088 >They firmly reject the political for the personal. True but I don't think the 1930s left saw those as discrete concepts.
I dunno about that, I haven't had DSA members burst into a meeting I've been at wearing masks and trying to break it up, but I have dealt with self-described fascists try to do that. Fascism is all rather abstract until it's breaking through your door.
Anonymous 2023-05-12 (Fri) 00:56:37 No. 17098
>>17096 yeah, trans people do call others tumblrinas/snowflakes a lot. they even brag about how before they became trans they wanted to be nazis. not very surprising considering how crazy liberals get over defending them.
Anonymous 2023-05-12 (Fri) 03:45:24 No. 17099
>>17098 Over half of all trans people are neurodivergent, specifically autistic and/or borderline (which very well may be a form of autism).
Anonymous 2023-05-12 (Fri) 03:47:04 No. 17100
>>17097 In the 1930s being a communist meant actually going out and agitating, organizing strikes, organizing rallies for the unemployed, being active in the beginnings of the Civil Rights Movement, writing communist propaganda, etc. etc.
Now being a communist just means agreeing with communism and being terminally online.
Anonymous 2023-05-12 (Fri) 03:51:21 No. 17103
yeah im neurodivergent, all these d*scord roles prove it
Anonymous 2023-05-12 (Fri) 04:01:13 No. 17104
>>17101 >>17102 They're vulnerable people in more than one aspect.
Anonymous 2023-05-12 (Fri) 04:06:00 No. 17105
>>17104 What does that have to do with the post you're replying to?
Anonymous 2023-05-12 (Fri) 21:21:00 No. 17106
>>16924 The siege mentality will always be reactionary. How can you organize the working class if you believe 99% of the population wants to exterminate you?
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 18:20:58 No. 17107
>>17088 >>17089 Semi-related, but I'd add that the reason why "wokeness" is being met with so much hostility is because people easily see through all the pandering the liberal left is doing. Liberals and RadLibs put all their eggs in one basket with the notion that white cis-het neurotypical able-bodied Christian males will no longer be a majority in America very soon, however there isn't a single group that's replacing those dudes as the "new" majority. Instead, libs take a bunch of minority groups and arbitrarily string them together to create a majority. And they just assume every single person who isn't a white cis-het neurotypical able-bodied Christian male shares the exact same political interests. The idea that a white autistic chronically ill grad student living in the gentrified part of Brooklyn has the exact same political interests as the working-class Black family she gentrified out is absurd, but libs will insist they do. It's like they see "collective struggle" as a mentality rather than an IRL action.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 19:26:14 No. 17108
>>17100 Social media killed leftism.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 19:29:07 No. 17109
>>17088 >Because Post-modernism denies anything else other than the self and explicitly forcloses any action as "authoritarian" and pointless. It depends on which "postmodernist" you mean, but it's not just like that. Of the French postmodernists most people think of, (the later) Foucault is probably the closest to neoliberalism, but what he advocates is an ethic and politics compatible with neoliberalism, a kind of ethico-political way of life. There's a problem here, but it isn't a problem of inaction.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 20:52:07 No. 17110
>>17107 >The idea that a white autistic chronically ill grad student living in the gentrified part of Brooklyn has the exact same political interests as the working-class Black family she gentrified out is absurd, Hence why intersectionality is horseshit.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 20:55:40 No. 17111
>>17109 >(the later) Foucault is probably the closest to neoliberalism yeah people forget foucault started shilling neoliberalism only in his last years and in interviews
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 20:56:13 No. 17112
>>17107 >>17110 Both need to sell their own labor, what's the difference here?
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 21:11:24 No. 17113
>>17112 Race matters. And the grad student has objectively more power given her status.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 21:14:37 No. 17115
>>17113 and then you guys have the gall to call others "sjws"
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 21:15:51 No. 17116
>>17114 If the landlord evicts others so I can move in I have more power than the people who were evicted.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 21:16:14 No. 17118
>>17116 And this affects socialist organizing how?
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 21:16:20 No. 17119
>>17112 Grad students are PMC, not proles.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 21:17:08 No. 17120
>>17118 Gentrifiers don’t share the same political interests as the people they expel.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 21:17:12 No. 17121
>>17119 Grad students don't need to sell their labor? That's news to me.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 21:18:09 No. 17122
>>17120 You're going in circles but you still can't demonstrate how income level changes the fact that both are workers at the end of the day.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 21:21:53 No. 17123
>>17121 Do you know what the PMC is? The whole purpose of academia is to reinforce capitalist ideology. Grad students aren’t proletarian.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 21:22:16 No. 17124
>>17122 Grad students aren’t workers. You need to prove they are.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 21:27:46 No. 17125
>>17123 >>17124 If you sell your labor for a wage you're literally a worker. Anything else is just vague moralistic drivel.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 22:58:17 No. 17126
>>17125 Grad students don’t sell their labour power.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 22:59:48 No. 17127
>>17126 you live in a fantasy world completely divorced from reality then
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 23:01:14 No. 17128
>>17126 many do, and this is ridiculous, obviously the category of 'workers' that we should support includes all ordinary people in general, are disabled people or homemakers 'workers'? In a strict definition no but in political terms yes. Stop being dumb.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 23:03:41 No. 17129
>>17128 Most disabled people have jobs and in fact are paid lower than minimum wage.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 23:04:35 No. 17130
>>17129 ok but some do not have them and still should be considered part of the proletarian masses.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 23:10:18 No. 17131
>>17090 Able-bodied and neurotypical workers benefit tremendously from neurodiversity. Think about it. Most people are burnt out from working meaningless jobs that don’t pay enough. They’re sick of putting money in their bosses’ pockets. The quiet quitting phenomenon was proof of this. Now, the reason why you’re seeing so much sympathy for the disabled and neurodivergent people is because of the general public sympathizes with them and their inability to work they’ll also sympathize with “normal” working people who feel burned out. Acceptance of the disabled ultimately requires moving beyond a system where one’s worth is determined by how productive they can be. This helps everyone. So yes promoting neurodiversity is essential to socialism, probably the most important thing we can do at this point. We autistics are the canary in the coal mine for capitalism.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 23:11:15 No. 17132
>>17131 lol get off the high horse buddy
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 23:11:45 No. 17133
>>17130 What would make them proletarian if they aren’t actively selling their labour power?
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 23:12:26 No. 17134
>>17131 Aspie believes the world revolves around him, news at 11.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 23:15:16 No. 17135
>>17131 >We autistics This feels like bait.
>>17133 Proletarian means your only significant asset is your capacity to work as opposed to the bourgeois who own the means of production. It doesn't mean you stop being proletarian the moment you become unemployed, lol.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 23:16:50 No. 17136
>>17133 Are jobless poor people bourgeois? No? Ok then they're proletarian. That's literally how simple as it should be.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 23:18:15 No. 17138
>>17131 Based comment
>>17090 Cringe comment as if sped teachers are out here rubbing their hands and fantasising about how they can create more AuDHD kids
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 23:18:52 No. 17139
>>17131 Apples and oranges. Just because normies think level 3 autistic kids don’t deserve to be euthanized doesn’t mean they think capitalism is bad.
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 23:33:31 No. 17141
>>17137 Why would Marx consider academics “working class”?
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 23:41:40 No. 17142
>>17131 What exactly do autistic people want that a large social Democratic welfare state can’t give them?
Anonymous 2023-05-13 (Sat) 23:44:01 No. 17143
>>17142 Machine tooling to make their own toys?
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 00:07:33 No. 17144
>>17142 Abolishing non-intuitive forms of communication. If trans people are able to rework the entirety of Western culture within a decade why shouldn’t autistic people attempt to do the same?
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 00:35:19 No. 17147
>>17144 How would that even be possible?
And what about people with profound autism who will never live independently?
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 00:37:05 No. 17148
>>17091 Let me put it another way - the wheel of history cannot be turned back. One cannot undo the World Wars, Vietnam War, environmental disasters and 1970s malaise that discredited modernism. Post-post-modernism's time has not yet come it must sublate post-modernism, not merely negate it.
>>17129 In fact, disabled workers are super-exploited. The wages they get paid are literal pennies to the dollar. As in 34 cents/hour.
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 00:38:09 No. 17149
>>17144 >>17147 Actually we will cure autism instead. :^)
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 00:42:21 No. 17152
>>17150 The Hazites seem to have come out in force today.
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 00:43:24 No. 17153
>>17144 How would you carry this out?
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 01:02:45 No. 17155
>>17154 To be fair, there’s a substantial difference between civil rights vs. whatever the fuck tumblr circa 2014 was.
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 01:03:33 No. 17156
>>17142 Literally all I want is for others to not judge me negatively for not being productive.
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 01:04:28 No. 17157
>>17156 We're getting there.
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 01:04:59 No. 17158
>>17155 nobody fucking cares about tumblr except for terminally online people, why are you still bringing it up
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 01:09:06 No. 17159
>>17154 stop obsessing with stupidpol and twitter irony bros, like holy fuck, get a life
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 01:09:53 No. 17160
>>17159 I'm talking about leftypol, retard.
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 01:10:55 No. 17161
>>17160 so leftypol defines what is 'cool' now?
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 02:50:08 No. 17163
>>17156 The reason autistic people are disliked has nothing to do with productivity (in fact, there are a lot of autistic porkies, like Elon Musk and Bill Gates, or 90% of Silicon Valley tech gurus). It's because autism creates a barrier between you and others in that autistic people have a much harder time understanding what constitutes acceptable behavior. No one gives a shit about you being "lazy". What they care about is are you able to have a 50/50 relationship with them whereby you're showing them respect and not doing anything that's offputting or comes off as cold and neglectful.
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 02:50:44 No. 17164
>>17144 Care to show me a culture which doesn't have non-intuitive forms of communication?
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 10:27:26 No. 17165
>>17144 >>17164 Wait, we're looking for cultures WITH intuitive forms of communication? Isn't that all of them? The problem isn't that communication is "non-intuitive," it's that autistic people have low intuition. Being born with a 0 in intuition is hard. It's a bloodbath out here, and nobody is changing anything.
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 10:38:12 No. 17166
>>17165 Imagine having high intuition and always knowing how bad most people are doing
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 14:53:32 No. 17167
siege by james mason
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 18:21:39 No. 17168
>>17165 Autistic idpol will kill the left for good, just wait.
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 18:22:34 No. 17169
>>17168 It's just a channer/social media thing.
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 18:49:58 No. 17170
>>17169 Autistic idpol is HEAVY on IG and TikTok…
Anonymous 2023-05-14 (Sun) 20:32:28 No. 17171
>>17170 I think we should back this one
The trans community went far further than I expected to and were willing to jump on that third rail and take the backlash to keep pushing
Congratulations goes to the gays on stopping the monkeypox pandemic dead in it's tracks unlike the breeders with their coof
Fags do what breeders can't I guess
I guess we'd better be getting used to this so how does it go ahem
Autist rights are human rights?
Anonymous 2023-05-15 (Mon) 00:31:47 No. 17172
>>17171 What rights do autists need that normal disability legislation doesn’t already cover?
Anonymous 2023-05-15 (Mon) 02:11:31 No. 17173
>>17172 A lot of autistic people have issues with cooking and driving, so something like worker canteens or government-run food delivery service would be necessary for them. Or, just making public transit better and cities more walkable. Or housing co-ops since a lot of autistic people struggle to live independently.
But you're correct: all of these things don't require socialism and could easily be achieved under capitalism if people pushed hard enough.
Anonymous 2023-05-15 (Mon) 02:19:06 No. 17174
>>17173 none of these are accommodations that only autistic people need
Anonymous 2023-05-15 (Mon) 04:22:37 No. 17175
>>17172 To be quite honest, aside from the siege mentality stuff, the biggest problem I have with a lot of autism advocacy ("actually autistic") is how it centers almost entirely on high-functioning level 1 Aspies who just want to be accepted for being nerds. These are people who are fully verbal, live independently, have university degrees, can drive/cook without issue, can work on a team with others, have very high levels of intelligence, etc. Autistic people who are level 2 or 3, are non-verbal, will never live independently, can't feed themselves, can't dress themselves, are still in diapers well past age five, and so on are almost completely ignored in the conversation. It's very trendy for Aspies to attack "autism moms" on the basis that their hardships raising their level 2 or 3 kids is "their fault" because "you signed up for a child by choice" but they rarely ever deal with the question of what happens to those level 2 or 3 autistic kids when the autism mom gets too old and can no longer provide for her child. Are profoundly autistic people just supposed to be shipped off to institutions where they can die alone? Or is a neurotypical sibling supposed to give up the rest of their lives and serve as caregiver? These aren't easy scenarios and it bothers me how even the left doesn't want to deal with this reality.
Anonymous 2023-05-15 (Mon) 04:42:40 No. 17176
>>17174 So what are policies you think are specifically needed by autistic people?
Anonymous 2023-05-15 (Mon) 04:49:05 No. 17177
>>17176 im not the other guy, i just think accommodations of this sort should be global or shouldnt be at all
Anonymous 2023-05-15 (Mon) 04:50:12 No. 17178
>>17175 My friend has a non-verbal brother and his parents put him in a home for other autistic adults. It costs so much that his family will never be out of debt, despite both parents and son working 2 jobs each.
My brother is turning 18 and was expelled from every elementary school in my state and never went back for an education. He's verbal, and considers himself high functioning, but more of a chrischan style high functioning, for lack of a better example.
When my parents get too old, I'm going to be the one taking care of them, and my brother. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to have a job like that.
Anonymous 2023-05-15 (Mon) 04:52:43 No. 17179
>>17178 That's horrible comrade.
And that's exactly my point: every time you bring up the question of low-functioning autism to the left they always default to the neoliberal answer: "the family will take care of it, they signed up for that kid so it's no problem of mine". I'm not saying the old asylums were good by any means but placing almost 100% of the responsibility for the profoundly disabled on the immediate family is equally as fucked.
Anonymous 2023-05-15 (Mon) 05:25:26 No. 17180
>>17178 >I'm not sure how I'm supposed to have a job like that. And imagine how few jobs there will be when your parents get old. Wages barely pay enough as it is.
Anonymous 2023-05-15 (Mon) 06:10:37 No. 17181
>>17178 If you go on abortion-related subreddits like r/tfmr_support you'll see the main reason parents have for aborting for Down Syndrome is fear of what will happen to their disabled kid when they're no longer able to serve as caregivers. Even in AES countries and social democracies care for the severely disabled isn't great.
Personally, I think prenatal testing should be mandatory. The pregnant person can decide if they want to abort or not obviously, but given that raising children IS a form of labour the parents need to know what kind of job they'll need to do. If they can't handle the job they should be allowed to terminate with no barriers.
Anonymous 2023-05-15 (Mon) 06:31:26 No. 17182
>>17172 >>17173 Could you two shut up and help me roll out the red carpet
We need Weaponized Autism with their high 'tism scores more than ever before
Now say after me autism rights are human rights and Stalin did nothing wrong other than be too kind and merciful great man that he was
Anonymous 2023-05-15 (Mon) 12:25:26 No. 17183
>>17171 >>17182 Yeah, this is what social conservatives sound like. Soulless devils.
Anonymous 2023-05-15 (Mon) 20:32:14 No. 17185
>>16941 this is correct I think. Cedric Robinson's argument in Black Marxism is that "racism" has it's antecedents in European labour organisation going back centuries before modernistic racism.
Kenan Malik's new book is apparently all about this too.
Anonymous 2023-05-15 (Mon) 20:36:00 No. 17186
>>17184 There are many currents in any society. Preppers and so on would be a symptom or a current of such a Risk society or risk-averse society.
Anonymous 2023-05-15 (Mon) 20:52:53 No. 17187
>>17183 Yes yes I'm sure I upset you very much by reminding you of people who disagree with you on social issues but if I'm a conservative anybody behind me on social issues is a reactionary
Now since the red carpet is rolled out help me set up a sensory room
>>>/siberia/ for our new autistic overlords
Say after me
Trans rights are human rights
Autism rights are human rights Stalin did nothing wrong except be too kind and merciful
U don't wanna be a reactionary now do you?
Anonymous 2023-05-15 (Mon) 20:53:48 No. 17188
>>17187 lib status: triggered
Anonymous 2023-05-21 (Sun) 18:46:37 No. 17189
Honest question: why would the ruling class continue to adhere to Malthusianism if the whole world knows Malthus’ predictions were dead wrong? Telling me the “globalist elites” are Malthusian is like telling me they’re Holocaust deniers or flat-Earthers or unironic believers in crystal healing.
Anonymous 2023-05-21 (Sun) 18:48:10 No. 17190
>>17187 >rights youre a liberal
Anonymous 2023-05-21 (Sun) 18:50:24 No. 17191
>>17187 Rights only exist insofar as you can defend them.
Anonymous 2023-05-21 (Sun) 19:03:02 No. 17192
>>17189 The people who say that usually have very misogynistic views towards women, in that they think the massive plummet in global fertility has to be a contrived conspiracy rather than a product of women being educated and refusing to engage in more reproductive labour.
Anonymous 2023-05-21 (Sun) 19:06:44 No. 17193
Siege mentality is litteraly the most reactionnary shit i ever read. This Mason guy is a freak.
Anonymous 2023-05-21 (Sun) 19:43:22 No. 17194
>>17190 did marx not believe in rights?
Anonymous 2023-05-21 (Sun) 21:23:59 No. 17197
>>17196 Stirner doesnt like rights for idealist reasons
Marxists dont like rights for materialist reasons
Anonymous 2023-05-21 (Sun) 21:38:37 No. 17199
>>17198 Just wait til people find out theres no state under communism either
Anonymous 2023-05-21 (Sun) 22:01:09 No. 17200
>>17154 You're wrong, but you're posting an anime reaction image so you gave it away too easily. Here I'll break it down for you:
Anti-racist struggles centered on class analysis relate to actual social forces that can impact production, improve people's material outlook and agitate revolution.
Anti-racism ideology concocted by the bourgeoisie in its present form is a tool to divide the working class, to strengthen the managerial state apparatus and protect capitalism.
It's really that simple. If the rhetoric sounds like it's coming from an upper-middle class HR manager, then it probably was cooked up by exactly these sorts of people.
Anonymous 2023-05-21 (Sun) 22:07:19 No. 17201
>>17189 One of my professors at Law School is an ardent Green left socdem and his response to my criticism of green politics being Malthusian is that Malthus was wrong then because he was racist but he's more or less correct now because "we have the data".
Marx's critique of Malthus in the Grundrisse needs to be more widely circulated, because this race to the bottom siege mentality is compatible with Malthus's line of thinking and it is diametrically opposed to the revolutionary outlook. Either we redeem history and revolutionise production, or we gets cartels and gangs running rackets to protect their scraps.
Anonymous 2023-05-21 (Sun) 22:47:36 No. 17202
>>17200 >Anti-racist struggles centered on class analysis relate to actual social forces that can impact production, improve people's material outlook and agitate revolution. How do you tell the difference? Because 99% of the time when someone says “anti-racism divides the working class” they’re using it as an excuse to not talk about the ways in which BIPOC are uniquely oppressed.
Anonymous 2023-05-21 (Sun) 22:59:18 No. 17203
>>17202 >How do you tell the difference? By the terms and stakes that are used in the debate and if they actually represent a threat to the system or if they are trying to be accommodated by capitalism. For example, if you use racism to agitate for "representation" in Hollywood movies and that's your political horizon. Or demand "equity" (property mortgage term) in the form of state welfare guaranteed by bourgeois political parties.
No it's not 99% of the time, you're projecting that onto people. People are absolutely willing to talk about unjust labour conditions on the ivory coast, police violence or how refugees are treated poorly. The problem is whether you ascribe all of these social problems to the "original sin" of white people which can only be redeemed by the capitalist state righting the wrongs of history. Or, you're instead analyzing capitalism as a global system and questioning why these patterns continually re-emerge during periods of crisis.
Anonymous 2023-05-21 (Sun) 23:14:10 No. 17204
>>17203 If the argument here is reformism vs revolution why do you not frame it that way and instead scapegoat anti-racists?
Anonymous 2023-05-21 (Sun) 23:28:43 No. 17205
>>17204 Once again you're projecting things I did not say, and do not believe. Instead of imagining a strawman, deal with the substance of the argument. Modern "progressivism" is reformist, in some cases hostile to the interests of the proletariat and complicit with imperialism. And this is the exact modus operandi of the Democratic party who will use this racialist, subaltern rhetoric so you continually vote for them in the name of "harm reduction". You don't need to dance around the issue, just call a spade a spade.
Because I am an orthodox, I always frame the debate this way: Are you a revolutionary, do you understand class interests - or are you a liberal/reactionary?
Anonymous 2023-05-21 (Sun) 23:30:01 No. 17207
>>17206 Brush up on the basics, I recommend Reform or Revolution because this seems to be where you're confused.
Anonymous 2023-05-21 (Sun) 23:31:18 No. 17208
>>17167 What does he argue?
Anonymous 2023-05-21 (Sun) 23:33:15 No. 17209
>>17172 A completely new form of communication. Most of us go way out of our way to look people in the eye, not stim, pretend to be interested in conversations that don’t interest us. Autistic people don’t want to be “fixed”, we want autonomy and respect like all other marginalized peoples. Leave us alone and give us basic support so we don’t have to mingle with allistics to survive.
Anonymous 2023-05-21 (Sun) 23:37:49 No. 17210
>>17209 >pretend to be interested in conversations that don’t interest us. You do realise this describes 80% of humanity. There is always some baseline of contempt that people have in day to day interactions, it's why the English invented manners.
Anonymous 2023-05-22 (Mon) 00:11:17 No. 17211
>>17210 Manners are oppressive social constructs.
Anonymous 2023-05-22 (Mon) 00:15:00 No. 17212
>>17211 Not really, they provide easy guidelines for a functioning society. Under socialism there will still be socialization, neurodivergent people should be understood and integrated into social roles that they're comfortable with but there will always be "weird" people who don't fit in.
Anonymous 2023-05-23 (Tue) 04:38:38 No. 17213
>>16953 >>17011 >>17093 This is an S-tier article that should be read by every idpoler since it sums up the logical conclusions of their beliefs.
For starters, it points out how siege groups (autistics, queer community, white conservative Christians, Muslim immigrants in Europe, etc.) will primarily resort to some kind of separatist sentiments as the primary means of dealing with the siege. You see this in statements like "we don't want assimilation, we want AUTONOMY AND RESPECT" as if the autonomy in this situation isn't just a demand for separatism.
I'd add too you see those groups end up becoming very conservative in that they demand conformity so that the enemy isn't able to infiltrate and destroy their group. Queer spaces for instance were a hell of a lot more liberating 15 years ago when I started getting involved. The whole idea was "be yourself" and everyone accepted you regardless. Now there's a billion and a half unwritten rules you have to follow. Like if you detransition you're now persona non grata because everyone assumes you're anti-trans. I get the impression if trans people could they'd form their own Israel just because they feel constantly attacked and in need of a permanent safe space.
Maybe the US becoming more polarized is a good thing because each state now has the potential to act as a sort of safe space for people feeling like they're under siege. Let transphobic and ableist white Christians have Florida and Missouri while letting neurodivergent and queer progressives have California and Washington State.
Anonymous 2023-05-23 (Tue) 04:54:31 No. 17214
>>17213 This is really good reason for a UBI. Just give everyone free money so they no longer have to compete with each other and can stay in their own little groups.
Anonymous 2023-05-23 (Tue) 16:17:18 No. 17217
>>17213 enlightened centrist
Anonymous 2023-05-23 (Tue) 16:27:19 No. 17218
>>17213 Honestly impressive how many people broadly within the “critique of callouts” socioculture have more or less the same starting assumption that the community has Bad People who need to be identified and driven out but instead of being about some broad harm it’s like, harshed vibes.
Feel like there are other stages of intervention one can have before drastic social blow ups or reverse uni exile but the thing about that is it doesn’t reinstate your social currency your lost when the last stupid game you played got you a stupid prize.
Anonymous 2023-05-23 (Tue) 16:28:28 No. 17219
>>17213 >Like if you detransition you're now persona non grata because everyone assumes you're anti-trans. I get the impression if trans people could they'd form their own Israel just because they feel constantly attacked and in need of a permanent safe space. stop falling for conservatard psyops
Anonymous 2023-05-23 (Tue) 18:37:37 No. 17221
>>17214 Except it’s not about money. It’s fundamentally about power and competing for hegemony.
Anonymous 2023-05-23 (Tue) 18:40:03 No. 17222
>>17217 Centrist? How? If anything I’m pointing out the need for siege groups to loosen up and become more open to things which challenge their paradigm in order so they can be more adaptive. Refusal to change is what results in totalitarian tendencies.
Or, we should all read Hegel.
Anonymous 2023-05-23 (Tue) 20:39:30 No. 17223
>>17214 Or, just make communities self-sustaining. People freak out over eugenics/WEF/agenda 21 because they feel as if they have zero control over their communities and some Illuminati is working to destroy them all.
Anonymous 2023-05-23 (Tue) 20:56:33 No. 17224
>>17223 Only one community, the human community.
Anonymous 2023-05-24 (Wed) 15:31:02 No. 17225
>>17172 Sensory accommodations
Bans on bright lights and loud noises
Ban ABA therapy
Make autistic a specific legal category
Anonymous 2023-05-24 (Wed) 15:39:39 No. 17227
>>17225 >laws yeah chief youre a liberal
Anonymous 2023-05-24 (Wed) 16:49:25 No. 17228
>>17225 >Sensory accommodations >Make autistic a specific legal category Already covered in disability legislation.
How do level 2 or 3 kids learn basic skills then?
Anonymous 2023-05-28 (Sun) 22:05:51 No. 17230
Remember in the mid 2010s when Zizek used to talk about how the new trend in politics is ethnocentrism mixed with neoliberalism? Do you think that goes along with the feeling of being under siege?
Anonymous 2023-05-30 (Tue) 04:16:55 No. 17231
>>17230 >Remember in the mid 2010s when Zizek used to talk about how the new trend in politics is ethnocentrism mixed with neoliberalism Zizek was correct for his time but as we know, the owl flies at dusk. He was grasping a political moment that was already over by the time he theorized about it. What we're witnessing now is the slow agonising death of neoliberalism, and the current mix of idpol perfectly complements the siege mentality as the state intervenes to circulate capital.
If things aren't growing economically, each marginalised community feels that they have to scrape the barrel to maintain their equity, and it leads them to see the state as the vehicle that butters their bread and "enfranchises" their wellbeing. It is a problem that has been inherited from the New Left, and I'm glad that socialists are waking up to the miseducation.
Anonymous 2023-06-09 (Fri) 20:14:22 No. 17232
Keep talking about this topic. Some great points in this thread.
Anonymous 2023-06-09 (Fri) 20:17:16 No. 17233
>>17229 Back when Jason made quality content.
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