No.1784941
>>1784933Don't. He was a nasty, ugly liberal. I will criticize him in the thread if you make it.
No.1784942
>>1761450You are a really good argument for Stalinism.
No.1784946
>>1784941criticism is good, discussion is nice, i just don't know if there is anything interesting to talk about him, i did not actually readed much of his books
No.1784950
>>1784941He was also a leftist tho
No.1784961
>>1784950Wrong. He was a liberal.
No.1784966
>>1784961He was also a leftist tho
No.1784979
>>1784918>>1784919>>1784925>>1784930>>1784951Alright guys, i confess. Im not actually an ancap. I just get the most giggles when I pretend to be the retards I argue with on 4chan. I have spent 11 years arguing with ancaps and pretty much can impersonate them to the t.
>Also, i am not the previous ancap and gadsden anons. Im a tunisian nationalist retard who needs to take a breath of fresh air on leftypol before I go back to 4chan. Although, who knows if I am a tunisian nationalist or not. No.1784983
>>1784979Ancaps believe everyone will be so rich they'll all have a tank and the state will either away.
No.1784987
>>1784979>Im not actually an ancapyeah i could tell, you're posting in other threads with the ancap flag
step up your game
No.1784989
>>178497910/10 bait but it's actually sad that it is believable
No.1784991
>>1784979Good job, you really did have me fooled!
No.1784994
>>1784987Please don't reveal the game, I am having too much fun
>>1784989>>1784991Sadly a lot of people are heartless, but some of my personal grievances with communism kinda leeched in. I find communism to be too hard to implement, and that kinda saddens me. Its like we are stuck in a death spiral of back to the mothership.
No.1785010
>>1784709>Besides, you guys will never agree to discuss anarcho-capitalism in good faithBecause we know that it's a contradiction that could never exist. It would be like trying to argue with flat earthers in good faith.
No.1785013
>>1784994maybe youre just pretending its a game to excuse your HORRIBLE TAKES!
im having fun practicing fucking around the side of a bad take so im cool with it No.1785014
>>1784994Nationalism is fine if it's national struggle against colonialism and imperialism. Communist revolutions depend on specific factors to align so yeah it's tough, but it's not like communists are (or rather, not like they should be) trying to force a revolution where there's none to be harvested
No.1785031
>>1785014>Nationalism is fine if it's national struggle against colonialism and imperialism.It's not fine, it's just [conditionally] tolerable in the short term. Look at the KMT as a case study of this.
No.1785034
>>1784899Oh man your ideology really is throwing the poor into the meat grander and blaming them for not resisting hard enough, and then gentrifying literally everything. Deeply unserious uyghas
No.1785109
>>1785034He's emulating petite bourgeois manchildren
No.1785188
>>1762274>The Chinese economic system is very similar to the Soviet New Economic Policy.It is not. Not even close. NEP was mostly about allowing peasants to sell the grain instead of directly redistributing it. Even under NEP soviets never had private banks, foreign corporations exploiting their workers, ban on independent unions etc.
No.1785195
>>1785188>private banks,Banking in Communist China is almost entirely SOE
>foreign corporations exploiting their workersForeign capital does not exploit the proletariat in Communist China. The proletariat exploits foreign capital to develop their productive forces.
>ban on independent unions etc.Trade unions must be affiliated with the Communist Party in Communist society to ensure they are beholden to the interests of the People.
No.1785197
>>1785195>Foreign capital does not exploit the proletariat in Communist China. The proletariat exploits foreign capital to develop their productive forces.You're either trolling or you don't know what exploitation is.
No.1785198
>>1785195>Banking in Communist China is almost entirely SOE LOL
>Foreign capital does not exploit the proletariat in Communist China.Damn, i already used lol in all caps, how can i express lol even harder?
>The proletariat exploits foreign capital to develop their productive forces.Foreign capital makes immense profits, meaning there is extraction of surplus value, meaning it's literally exploitation.
>Trade unions must be affiliated with the Communist Party in Communist society to ensure they are beholden to the interests of the People.Literally Trotsky position btw. Independent unions are basis of socialist society. That's what "worker control" means.
I swear, even ancaps are easier to take seriously than deng beetles.
No.1785210
>>1785197>You're either trolling or you don't know what exploitation is.Chinese workers exploit foreign capital because the Chinese proletariat ultimately retains the value and innovation foreign capital brings.
>>1785198>LOLThe banking industry is almost entirely SOE (~99%). This is fact. You have no refutation, so you must type "LOL" like a moron.
>Damn, i already used lol in all caps, how can i express lol even harder?Use emojis.
>Foreign capital makes immense profits, meaning there is extraction of surplus value, meaning it's literally exploitation. Wrong. The Chinese People extract surplus-value from foreign capital through the mode of production of Socialism with Chinese Characteristics. In Communist China, the workers, through state policies and control, direct the flow of capital in such a way that it benefits them, rather than the capitalists. In capitalist society, the value accumulates to the capitalists and the People become poor, while in Communist society, the value diffuses to the People and the People become rich.
>Literally Trotsky position btw. So Communist China's reality is Trotsky's position? You are wrong.
>Independent unions are basis of socialist society. That's what "worker control" means.You are wrong on all counts. The mere existence of independent unions is not the basis of socialist society. The defining condition of socialism is the proletariat being the ruling class, not having shitty, undeveloped, unorganized, reactionary bourgeois trade unions.
No.1785214
>>1785210>Chinese workers exploit foreign capital because the Chinese proletariat ultimately retains the value and innovation foreign capital brings.>Wrong. The Chinese People extract surplus-value from foreign capital through the mode of production of Socialism with Chinese Characteristics. In Communist China, the workers, through state policies and control, direct the flow of capital in such a way that it benefits them, rather than the capitalists. In capitalist society, the value accumulates to the capitalists and the People become poor, while in Communist society, the value diffuses to the People and the People become rich.That's some incredible mental gymnastics.
No.1785215
>>1785207
>The banking industry is almost entirely SOE (~99%). This is fact. You have no refutation, so you must type "LOL" like a moron.
And it doesn't change the fact that they are private banks. Porky government owning shares of the banks changes very little.
>Wrong. The Chinese People extract surplus-value from foreign capital through the mode of production of Socialism with Chinese Characteristics.
That is retarded. And asinine. And retarded. Why would foreign corpos move their production to Capitalist China if it wasn't for higher profits? Out of goodness of their hearts? No, they extract surplus value. Cope and seethe dengoid.
>So Communist China's reality is Trotsky's position? You are wrong.
Wrong exactly where? Subordinating unions to state was an idea Trotsky advocated for. That is a fact, not an opinon.
>You are wrong on all counts. The mere existence of independent unions is not the basis of socialist society.
No, but is a necessary part of it. Read Stalin "Concerning Questions of Leninism
"
<Of course, this must not be understood in the sense that the Party can or should take the place of the trade unions, the Soviets, and the other mass organisations. The Party exercises the dictatorship of the proletariat. However, it exercises it not directly, but with the help of the trade unions, and through the Soviets and their ramifications. Without these “transmission belts,” it would be impossible for the dictatorship to be at all firm.
Meaning that witout unions, soviets and so on, proletariat cannot excercise it's dictatorship. Dictatorship of the party is not the same as dictatorship of the proletariat. Put that in your fucking scroll, beetle.
No.1785216
>>1785215>Why would foreign corpos move their production to Capitalist China if it wasn't for higher profitsNTA, but most foreign companies in China are forced to domestically assimilate to the party. For example, KFC China is a completely seperate entity run by PRC citizens. It's just that a 6℅ licensing fee is worth capitulating for the biggest commercial market on the planet. So the Chinese as a whole keeps the lions share of surplus value while also having a steady cashflow of foreign investment.
No.1785222
>>1785216Which means the exploitation is big enough for both local and foreign porkies to share and still entice the foreign ones to abandon their factories in western countries. All on the backs of chinese people, and when they try to complain or form union to protect their rights, they get brutally supressed by the state.
No.1785232
>>1785215>And it doesn't change the fact that they are private banks. Porky government owning shares of the banks changes very little. Inoperable.
>That is retarded. And asinine. And retarded. Why would foreign corpos move their production to Capitalist China if it wasn't for higher profits? Out of goodness of their hearts? No, they extract surplus value. Cope and seethe dengoid.Foreign capital is motivated by pragmatic considerations that transcend simple profit calculations. They seek efficiency, scalability, development, and, above all, integration within the burgeoning economic superpower that is Communist China.
>Wrong exactly where? Subordinating unions to state was an idea Trotsky advocated for. That is a fact, not an opinon.You are wrong because this does not matter. Drinking water to live is probably an idea that Trotsky would advocate for.
>No, but is a necessary part of it. Read Stalin "Concerning Questions of LeninismYou contradict yourself glaringly. You said this:
<Independent unions are basis of socialist society. That's what "worker control" means.>Meaning that witout unions, soviets and so on, proletariat cannot excercise it's dictatorship. Dictatorship of the party is not the same as dictatorship of the proletariat. Put that in your fucking scroll, beetle.Communist China has unions. Communist China has soviets. Communist China is a dictatorship of the proletariat. Your house of cards falls. You fail to understand the meaning of what you cite because you twist it crudely to serve your liberalism.
>>1785222>Which means the exploitation is big enough for both local and foreign porkies to share and still entice the foreign ones to abandon their factories in western countries.There is no exploitation of the proletariat in Communist China. Surplus value is not a one-sided extraction in Socialism with Chinese Characteristics, as it is under capitalist production, but a shared resource for societal advancement, with the Socialist State playing a redistributive role. The proletariat exploits the bourgeoisie in Communist China. It is the Socialist State's function to wrest the means of production from the capitalists who reside in the West, centralizing the forces of production under the control of the proletariat.
No.1785240
>>1785232>InoperableTranslation: "i don't know what private property or capitalism is"
>Foreign capital is motivated by pragmatic considerations that transcend simple profit calculations.Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
>Communist China has unions. Communist China has soviets.No it doesn't. It has state controlled unions. Just like Nazi Germany or Fascist Italy had. They are supressing the workers for the sake of porky's profits.
Dengoids are just turd positionists.
>You fail to understand the meaning of what you citeSo much projection
>There is no exploitation of the proletariat in Communist China. Surplus value is not a one-sided extraction in Socialism with Chinese Characteristics, as it is under capitalist production, but a shared resource for societal advancement, with the Socialist State playing a redistributive role. The proletariat exploits the bourgeoisie in Communist China. It is the Socialist State's function to wrest the means of production from the capitalists who reside in the West, centralizing the forces of production under the control of the proletariat.Meaningless drivel.
No.1785243
>>1785215He has a point though, a lot of the banks in china are majority state owned(by the government or other state owned enterprises). The government having majority ownership of a bank entity makes it state owned….instead of private.
you can say it functions kinda like a private company…..but thats different from ownership
No.1785253
>>1785241
Yes, the company is still private. The opposite of private is not "state owned", it's "socialized". You are literally repeating "socialism is when government does stuff" meme, but at face value.
The ownership of the bank changes nothing because they still operate like private banks (because they ARE private banks). They are using fanince capital to extract rent from people. USSR had nothing even close to this.
No.1785255
>>1785243Can't you idiots just stick with one post? Or at least think for a minute before posting, instead of deleting it after?
No.1785264
>>1785240>They are supressing the workers for the sake of porky's profitsthey don't tho
No.1785267
>>1785264Yeah, all those striking workers brutally supressed by chinese pigs must have been agents of nato or something.
No.1785632
Did my bump actually work?
What the fuck?
What is wrong with you guys
No.1808224
For me it's how they're always working at Walmart or somewhere else demeaning and then advocating for slavery like they wouldn't be the first ones tilling Rothbard's fields.
No.1808501
I can't fathom how people still fall for ancap fairy tales
>abolish the state let the invisible hand take care of everything
>there is no army because nobody is paying taxes
>a neighbouring country's bourgeoisie invades executes all cretinous mongrels who essentially made their vehicle of privilege vulnerable in the first place and subjugates the toilers
>the end
No.1808504
>>1808501it appeals to certain type of people because it has an internal logic. its the same reason why engineers often become religious fundamentalists, islam or christian.
No.1808773
>>1808501Anon, ancaps don't want to abolish the state, they want to privatize the state.
No.1808774
>>1730587an ideology also needs concrete politics to come from
No.1808813
>>1808773a bourgeois state is already private? or do u think that a toiler can affect any policies enacted in such a state lol? ancaps seek to abolish the state and let the market take care of everything
inb4 yes they can they can cast their vote
No.1808941
>>1761450>first piclmao yeah because if theres one selling point everyone will love, its replacing all government with insurance policies
No.1808952
>Complete bankruptcy
What's wrong with this? They are destroying the state, that's what anarchists do.
No.1808960
>>1730585It sounds like rebranded fascism tbh.
Ancapism rarely if ever gets implemented "properly" because it pretends you don't need to enforce capitalism. So it ends up being "accidental fascism" every time.
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