/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>1753170
Of course

>>1750996
>>1750991
1) The inability to prove a negative doesn't prove or disprove the existence of something, and asserting the negative in such a circumstance literally just creates a god shaped hole.
2) The lack of praxis in either case in if, or elif souls exist makes the pondering it pointless until the existence is proven. It is less than mattering if that doesn't happen, because wasting resources on the insistence of a negative against the insistence of a positive is even more wasteful than the pursuit of something of the positive if it cannot ever be reached, since the latter will be perused anyway in either case.
2) Asserting that materialism would be debunked by the existence of souls inherently mystifies it, even if you truly believen't in souls. In doing so you make surrender it to philosophy, when it isn't philosophy.

"I got really high on drugs" isn't an argument.

>>1753420
Can you help me repair my door?

>>1753424
Gem

>>1750599
Lmao, are you retarded? Drugs show us that how we PERCEIVE the Physical world is just an IDEA in our heads. This means that materialism, science, etc are just mental constructs and ways of viewing the world, same as any other. Schizophrenics can literally see, touch, and hear entities that other people can't.

Saying there is only one material reality that is equally true to everything and everyone is false. Idealism is correct because we literally create the realities we live in with the power of our minds.

Sorry you're not a Skyrim character and you can't spy on people or cast a fireball, that's not how it works. The power of your mind is limited mostly to controlling your own world. Religion and ideology is how you change the worldviews and realities of others.

I'm not a commie btw you people are silly. Imagine believing there's only one material reality, and that ideas don't matter, while also believing in transgenderism. The idea that you can be metaphysically born in the wrong physical body.

>>1753957
>Saying there is only one material reality that is equally true to everything and everyone is false
<Sorry you're not a Skyrim character and you can't spy on people or cast a fireball, that's not how it works.

So you admit that every Human cannot cast a fireball and magic doesn't exist, ergo there is an objective material reality that exists and is distinct from every individual's personal perspective. Thanks for proving Marxism and Materialism to be correct.

>>1753957
why is the background of that projection screen entirely made of swastikas

>>1753958
>So you admit that every Human cannot cast a fireball and magic doesn't exist, ergo there is an objective material reality

Admitting that there are limitations to the power of belief and ideas is not admitting to there being only one reality. We are ALL changing the reality everyone else is living in through our beliefs. The power of other minds is what limits your own. Some people don't live in consensus reality, we label them schizos, psychotics, etc. Their unique perspectives on reality are not powerful because their souls are outweighed by the collective Holy Spirit of the consensus reality shared by most.

Bronze Age people pretty much all unequivocally wrote of magic rituals being true, powerful, and important; this was not because they were stupid or deluded (In a sense, they could be considered those things , but not how you imagine it) That's just the world they lived in, since that's what they believed.

We live in a world of belief in materialism, so that is the law we generally live in collectively. Christians believe in material/spiritual duality, this is why they reject science. Even they don't really believe in magic, they think it's separate from reality. Christians are closer to Atheists than ancient people.

Science is is just another type of magic, a ritualistic mechanistic action taken in order to enact change. Ritual is how one changes the world, and when the Materialist God rules, the rituals you use to enact change are those of the machine. Building a missile is how you cast a spell in this day and age.

This does not however mean that only the materialist way of seeing the world is the only one true, it obviously isn't, but it is for some. Most people throughout history did not see the world like you or I.

>ergo there is an objective material reality that exists and is distinct from every individual's personal perspective.

No, there isn't. There is only belief, and collective belief which tends to be enforced through education. If everything collapsed tomorrow, you'd see new perspectives and new rituals done to enact change. Same as any other time one age goes into another.

>>1753961
Should be obvious, I know it's offensive…

>>1753965
Adding to this, look up the observer effect in quantum mechanics in order to see a good example about the perception of the mind changes material reality.

>>1753965
>>1753966
You also have to remember that humans are not the only things doing this. The plants and animals are alive too, and they influence the consensus reality we share as-well. Humans are more able to dominate other species due to their superior consciousness, but they are not the sole constructors of reality themselves. Even if you were to drug every human into believing something, the effect might be great, but not as pronounced as you'd might hope. I have my personal doubts you could ever cast fireballs. Do a ritual to summon the rain however? Well, we can already do that with the magic called science today, and in the past, our ancestors had different rituals that made just as much sense to them, in their worlds.

>>1753972
I'm heading to bed, one more thing I'll tell you all though. Remember, emotions are the realest things there are. What you see with your eyes? That's information filtered through a lens, no different fundamentally from what you see through your computer monitor.

Feels really are before reals, because feels are the most reals. What you and other feel is fundamentally the most important. If you bring suffering to others, that will only lead to more and more suffering, as the collective belief of living beings is more and more dominated by the concept.

It matters not if you're abusing animals, or people. The effect is the same. If you want to understand how something like the Holocaust could have happened, look to the factory farm, it's the same damn thing. You're just a German who thinks he's racially superior and you think that justifies it.

>>1753957
Spouting some classic idealism of the Mach type there. The laws of nature are objectively determined by nature, not by your consciousness and feelings, and these laws exist whether we know them or not. Try jumping off a cliff and see how much physics is a mental construct. Insane obscurantist.

>>1753994
Decided to stay up a bit longer. What is nature? Nature is an idea. Yes, if you fall from a great height you will die. You will even die even if you don't believe you will. You want to know why? It's because we're living in a rational world.

Do you want to know how we're living in a rational world? Through the power of belief, through the spirit of rationalism imposing its will onto reality.

Those who are possessed by other types of archetypes are not powerful, so while in their worlds gravity might not exist (We would call this a delusion) The power of the consensus reality we live in would still smite them if they undertook actions we would see as lethal. Our reality is more powerful than theirs.

The concept of gravity likely took power in our hearts far before we even existed, before life even existed. It's a concept that likely has always existed in this universe. That does not mean it is anything but an idea. Because everything is an idea.

Ideas are transcendental. Human beings are just very small parts of reality, so of-course their powers are limited. Their power to influence how ideas interact with the world is limited.

How limited beings change reality is through calling upon greater powers/universal archetypes, and this is done through ritual. It's why all cultures have ritual, even animals have ritual, it's how change is made.

You couldn't make a ritual to change gravity however because gravity is a fundamental aspect of our reality, and inherent natures. To do so would just destroy everything, you couldn't convince many to pursue such a task seriously either, because the IDEA of doing such is absurd.

Let's assume that materialism is wrong; then, what is the correct worldview? Do keep in mind that saying that "we don't have the correct worldview figured out yet, and we will arrive at it at some time in the future" it means that you are already on the materialist worldview rails

>>1754009
>Yes, if you fall from a great height you will die.

Will you, though? What if it's a trick of perception? What if you believe hard enough you'll actually go and fly away, and if you fall down, that means you just didn't believe enough in your flying ability?

>>1754013
There is no correct worldview, there's just the reality you live in, and the reality others live in. It's all subjective. The only MORAL viewpoint however is understanding how others think, and trying to reconcile the differences and minimize suffering in the process. You could choose to be a crusader for your worldview, burn the heretics, etc. Anyone who does this is fundamentally the same. They think they're fighting for the truth, when it's only their truth.
>>1754014
You're not a God, your powers are limited. Others see you as delusional, you will see yourself as doing that until you hit the floor. Re-read my posts, comprehend them, I have already explained why this doesn't work.

>>1754017
>You're not a God, your powers are limited.

You are not believing in your powers hard enough.

>Others see you as delusional

This means you are not believing in yourself hard enough. Idiots have managed to trick millions of people into believing their phoney religious nonsense, and then here you are saying that others will see you as an idiot. You are just not good enough

>It's all subjective.

Yeah, that's what I am saying. Believe in yourself, and you'll achieve anything you want. Even jump off a roof and start flying

>trying to reconcile the differences and minimize suffering in the process

Nah, that's stupid. Given an eternity, all human minds will arrive at the same worldview (talking about comprehending reality here, not emotional/moral response to it). Final truth is the same for everyone.

>>1754020
God it's like I'm back on /pol/

>You are not believing in your powers hard enough.
Nah, insane people believe from the bottom of their hearts that they can do things, but they're no able to fucking fly. You wanna know why? BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE BELIEVES THEY CAN FUCKING FLY! YOU'RE NOT A GOD! YOU'RE JUST A VERY SMALL CELL OF DIVINITY! YOUR SUBJECTIVE REALITY IS HOW YOU PERCEIVE THE WORLD, BUT CHANGING HOW OTHERS PERCEIVE THE WORLD IS ANOTHER MATTER ENTIRELY!

>This means you are not believing in yourself hard enough. Idiots have managed to trick millions of people into believing their phoney religious nonsense, and then here you are saying that others will see you as an idiot. You are just not good enough
As a communist, you should be familiar with the concept of the collective, and how it's more powerful than the individual…

>Nah, that's stupid. Given an eternity, all human minds will arrive at the same worldview
Maybe, and give it another eternity, and that worldview will splinter once again. Nothing lasts forever.

>>1754020
>Final truth is the same for everyone.
Yeah, and this is the flaw in progressive thinking. I see this is truly delusional. Sure, in your reality the inevitable march of truth must seems like such a profound idea. Truer than the belief the Christian holds in Christ. I find it very hard to agree however. We've never observed this in all of history. You're on a fool's errand. You're the person who wants to change gravity. Sure, it's theoretically possible, but it's not going to happen.

>>1754026
>Nah, insane people believe from the bottom of their hearts that they can do things

They know deep down that they are fakes, and as a result they don't believe hard enough. Even a shred of a doubt destroys it all. It's like a dream, really - if you start thinking about it, you start falling

>YOU'RE NOT A GOD! YOU'RE JUST A VERY SMALL CELL OF DIVINITY!

There's no divinity or god. Believing in shit like this is why you can't fly at will

>concept of the collective, and how it's more powerful than the individual

pffft. You are trying to apply truisms - that a collective will fell trees and chop it into wood blocks faster than a single man, and they will produce progressively more wood blocks per capita - to a willpower. What, you think that collective willpower is what is rooting you to the ground? No, you are just a failure who can't persuade himself, nevermind those around him, in your ability to fly

>>1754029
>Yeah, and this is the flaw in progressive thinking. I see this is truly delusional

So, what you are saying is, that given the eternity, two men will arrive at different explanations of atom? Given that they start at zero as cavemen, for example. Like, there would be different language, sure, but if the only thing they can do is theoretize and make experiments forever and ever, they will trial and error their way into the same kind of science, without contradicting each other

>>1750315
>take drug
>hallucinate
That is explicit proof of materialism though.
You directly impacted your consciousness through physical phenomena. That shows that the brain is a material thing that is affected by the material. There is no supernatural element required.
The fact that you were able to "see" your own body doesn't mean anything except that you have a conception of what you look like, which is true of almost everyone. It's not like you can take a screenshot of that moment and compare it with a top-down picture or something.

>>1754034
>They know deep down that they are fakes, and as a result they don't believe hard enough. Even a shred of a doubt destroys it all. It's like a dream, really - if you start thinking about it, you start falling
I guess this is why real communism has never been implemented. Communists just don't believe in communism hard enough, they feel like fakes.. I suppose it's a similar issue, you're living in such a different reality from normal people, so your worldview can never hold power. I guess that's why you want to kill anyone who isn't a communist. Maybe if you kill everyone else, you can finally fly….

>There's no divinity or god. Believing in shit like this is why you can't fly at will
It's a metaphor, that's what religion is. God is not a magic man in the sky. God is existence, and we're all a part of it.

>pffft. You are trying to apply truisms - that a collective will fell trees and chop it into wood blocks faster than a single man, and they will produce progressively more wood blocks per capita - to a willpower. What, you think that collective willpower is what is rooting you to the ground? No, you are just a failure who can't persuade himself, nevermind those around him, in your ability to fly
Consensus reality construction is no different fundamentally from your anology about chopping wood. All you're doing is creating a strawman to argue against and than proclaiming victory. It's sad.

>So, what you are saying is, that given the eternity, two men will arrive at different explanations of atom?
Sure, look at observer effect in quantum mechanics. In actuality, the physical composition of an Atom would look entirely different to two different men raised in complete isolation. One man would probably call in the magical bean or something, and pray to it for explosive power. Only if those two men shared their ideas would the idea of the Atom be shared, and while they would both share common ground, in their internal worlds it would still be perceived differently. Same as how a Mantis Shrimp doesn't perceive an object the same as we do.

>sure, but if the only thing they can do is theoretize and make experiments forever and ever, they will trial and error their way into the same kind of science, without contradicting each other
Only if they worked together. Trial and error is how you get religion, it's also how you get science. Both worldviews dominated by theology and ritual, just one rational, the other spiritual, both symbolic at the end of the day. Both ideas.

>>1754043
NTA but you are an absolute moron and that guy is a masochist for arguing with someone with such low mental faculties.

>>1754044
Yes I know, I'm one of those heathens that just doesn't understand the true faith. Living in ignorance and sin….

>>1754043
>Communists just don't believe in communism hard enough, they feel like fakes

Why would willing yourself to fly translate into ability to force people into communism? Ever heard of a body autonomy, lmao?

>God is not a magic man in the sky. God is existence, and we're all a part of it.

Nah, you and I are not the same person

>Consensus reality construction is no different fundamentally from your anology about chopping wood

You are making a metaphor where there is none. There's no higher will, no nothing. Read the theory - Harry Potter - and look at how the timeloop works there. There's just THINGS that exist because they exist. Timeloop happens not because there's something that begins and ends, timeloop justifies itself. Material reality behaves the same way, it just is, and it's a separate entity from yourself

>Sure, look at observer effect in quantum mechanics

Doesn't exist. Experiments have shown that observer effect is merely an issue with scientific equipment: it is impossible to measure something without touching it in some way, and touching quantum entagled things results in changes to the observed object.

Besides, the new meta is that quantum shit happens because time travel happens there. It all always ties back to the theory - the Harry Potter saga

>Mantis Shrimp doesn't perceive an object the same as we do.

Perception is meaningless. Strong will understands all and perceives all

>Only if they worked together.

No, it will happen regardless of anything. Universe works the same way for everyone, and given an endless timeline to do all kinds of research all people will independently arrive at the same conclusions. It has nothing to do with perception, either. It's just truth of the matter

>>1754052
>Why would willing yourself to fly translate into ability to force people into communism? Ever heard of a body autonomy, lmao?
We'll, they're both believed by the delusional. Most other people don't take the idea seriously. Sometimes the delusional chimp out when their delusions aren't taken seriously…

>Nah, you and I are not the same person
I know, the self-hatred is strong. I used to be an atheist commie you know. I know exactly where you're coming from. I honestly find it cute. If you were a woman I'd fuck your brains out. I love silly girls.

>You are making a metaphor where there is none. There's no higher will, no nothing.
Interesting hypothesis, so, where did the voice that directed your fingers to type this came from? Yes, yes, I know you have a brain and organs, all that shit. But, where is that voice you're listening to, coming from right now? Oh it's just a biological construct you say? A chemical reaction? Very interesting idea, you should write that down.

>There's just THINGS that exist because they exist.
That is so deep. Wow, I'm befuddled, you have won.

Here's a hint

The chicken and the egg both have always existed.

Time is just an idea, same as any other. A useful, rational, idea. Just an idea.

>Perception is meaningless. Strong will understands all and perceives all
And that is just a perception.

>Universe works the same way for everyone,
Yes King Cultist, you know the only truth, everyone else is wrong, blah buh fucking blah.

>given an endless timeline to do all kinds of research all people will independently arrive at the same conclusions.
Of-course, there's plenty of historical basis for that. I mean, we can observe it today, in the past…. We can see people progressively disagreeing less and less as time goes on. One day, the true faith will shower enlightenment on all, and we will all live in Heaven forever.

>>1754057
>We'll, they're both believed by the delusional.

Again, they don't believe hard enough. Your argument isn't persuasive, you know? You have to try harder than this half-assed attempt

>I know exactly where you're coming from

You are not, though. You can't even grasp the concept of there being no divinity, no shared consciousness, and at the same time being able to fly through the sheer force of will

>where did the voice that directed your fingers to type this came from?

From my brain, duh. Rocks falling from a higher place to a lower place don't need any soul to move either. But that's besides the point, because you for some reason want to argue that material world's laws are the same ones that govern the ability to fly through the sheer force of will. Didn't you read the theory - Harry Potter? Material reality out there is just THERE, like the timeloop being JUST THERE. It doesn't bear any relation to the ability to fly through the sheer force of will

>The chicken and the egg both have always existed.

Nah, they didn't. First came the chicken, and it came out of the egg of some almost chicken-like dinosaur. Timeloop is a completely different thing

>One day, the true faith will shower enlightenment on all

What true faith, lmao. Are you seriously arguing that different countries have different outlook on science? What are you even talking about?

>And that is just a perception.

Dude, you don't have the right to talk about perception when you don't even understand the idea of a timeloop being without beginning or end. Hell, you probably don't even understand the idea of the end of the universe due to the timeloop cutting off all history past a certain point

>>1753957
>we literally create the realities we live in with the power of our minds.
i'm sure your mind is mighty powerful in your mind you hippie lol

>>1753957
>Saying there is only one material reality that is equally true to everything and everyone is false.
lol schizo

When I tool shit loads of LSD, I never fell into idealism

>>1750606
What bother you about ideas being information on supports, whether neuron activity or symbols on paper?
Not fancy enough for you?

>>1750532
least gullible anarchist

>>1754154
same

>>1750315
Metaphysics is based on material reality. Without material reality no ideas, souls or spooky ghosts would exist.

>>1753965
>We are ALL changing the reality everyone else is living in through our beliefs.
You are missing the point. I already told you (and you agree) that no human being alive can cast a fireball or magic missile and throw it at someone else. Reality stands independent of perception. Imagining that you can throw a fireball is not going to set whatever you're aiming at on fire. Likewise a schizo can imagine someone in an empty room talking to them. However through third party verification and observation we can all confirm that there isn't actually another living breathing human being in that empty room with (for instance) CCTV monitoring. Your argument about the mind changing reality is falsifiable with these two and many other examples and therefore easily demonstrated to be wrong. You haven't refuted Marxism or Materialism you've just generated a tautology for yourself ("people's imagination can change reality because people's imagination can change reality") and failed to rebut any of the millions of examples blowing a gaping hole through that idea.

>>1754121
You're boring, you're just making the same stupid argument you've made over and over again which I've already debunked. You are an NPC with no reading comprehensions
>Again, they don't believe hard enough. Your argument isn't persuasive, you know? You have to try harder than this half-assed attempt
Communists don't believe in communism hard enough?
>You are not, though. You can't even grasp the concept of there being no divinity, no shared consciousness,
Lmao, that's what I've believed for most of my life. That's the baseline belief in our society. Christians don't even really believe in divinity because they believe it is entirely separate from real life, and only matters after death.
>From my brain, duh
Of-course, a thought is something material, like a neuron, my mistake… Do you not realize how stupid you sound? You do realize everything material you see is just information being processed by your brain correct? The tree you see isn't really what a tree looks like, a tree is just how a symbol your brain creates to help visualize a concept in your head. A tree is not really one solid object, go down in scale enough and you'll see it's just a colony and cells , farther it's just and a collection of molecules.
>Rocks falling from a higher place to a lower place don't need any soul to move either.
The soul is just a metaphor for existence, so yes, rocks exist. Everything has a "soul" because everything exists, and is all a-part of creation.
>because you for some reason want to argue that material world's laws are the same ones that govern the ability to fly through the sheer force of will.
Like I keep repeating, you're the one who wants to change the law of nature, not me. All I say is that it would be theoretically possible, but not in actuality.
>Nah, they didn't. First came the chicken, and it came out of the egg of some almost chicken-like dinosaur.
Lmao, so go far back enough what came first? The first egg? Or the first dinosaur? Perhaps we could quibble over definitions until we both feel like we win, but doing so doesn't actually matter to my point. Time isn't actually real, I have no clue why you believe in retarded bullshit like timeloops.
>What true faith, lmao
Don't act like your shit isn't a cult.
>Are you seriously arguing that different countries have different outlook on science?
Of-course they do. The USSR for example did not believe in natural selection (Even after Lysenkoism was gone they were still skeptical) Modern liberal countries do not believe natural selection applies to human beings (We're special apparently) Got two scientists together to discuss the nature of black holes, or quantum physics, or biology, or anything, you will get two separate theories. What do you think science is a cult? It's a methodology. and people get different conclusions all the time. Actually there's only been more disagreements as the theories have become ever more complex, not less. Plus, not all people think scientifically or rationally, thinking in those ways is just another way of viewing the world.
>Dude, you don't have the right to talk about perception when you don't even understand the idea of a timeloop being without beginning or end.
Time we perceive it is cynical, but time isn't actually even real, it's an idea but one that ironically doesn't have any material basis. As a marxist the fact you believe in timeloops is very funny to me, since you're part of a progressive materialist cult; yet you subscribe to such an idealist way of viewing reality that pretty much makes the concept of material development irrelevant.
>Hell, you probably don't even understand the idea of the end of the universe due to the timeloop cutting off all history past a certain point
Entropy kills the universe, than it's reborn. Even scientific theories say as much, many believe the Big Bang has happened over and over again. It's a cycle, not a loop. A cycle of life and death. Same as the life cycle of the stars, or of living creatures.
>>1754147
For me, it is. If I wanted to, I could live in hell by taking Datura for example.
>>1754152
Schizoes are a perfect example for how not everyone is living in the same reality. A schizo can literally interact with perceived entities, touch them, hear them, etc. That other people can't see.
>>1754571
>Reality stands independent of perception.
In a sense you are correct. But the true reality, the one that is truly independent of perception, makes no sense. It's more like the unending fractals of a drug trip than the trees and the grass, our brains have to filter out so much information in order to for us to live the lives that we do. How you PERCEIVE this infinitely complex universe you're living in is limited by your brain, which itself is a limiter on your mind. So in this sense, we do create our own SUBJECTIVE realities with our minds. The only way to fully comprehend the truth would be to be everything. Plus, everyone's brain is a little different, how you see colors is likely different to how another does for example.
>Likewise a schizo can imagine someone in an empty room talking to them. However through third party verification and observation we can all confirm that there isn't actually another living breathing human being in that empty room with (for instance) CCTV monitoring.
Yes, because most are not living in the same reality as the schizo. If we were, we wouldn't consider him a schizo. That doesn't mean that schizo can't fully interact with his demons same as how we can interact with another human. There's actually been cases of people who gone through psychosis together through drug abuse seeing the same entities that normal people can't. Of-course you can't prove this materially, since it's a subjective experience and materialism only helps those who share common ground explain the world.
>You haven't refuted Marxism or Materialism
I haven't, because I haven't tried to. Materialism is actually very true, for some people. What I'm saying is that everything is true. You are correct in a sense in some sense, and so are the idealists. We can go back and argue about chickens and eggs, which came first? The ideas or the material? Well, in my eyes, both have always existed.

>and failed to rebut any of the millions of examples blowing a gaping hole through that idea.
You can't use rationalism to argue that rationalism isn't true. It's like trying to debate that God doesn't exist by quoting the Bible, not how it works. Materialism and Idealism are actually both true, and my ideal would be finding the middle ground between them both.

>>1754606
Btw, by "Materialism being true" I mean the Materialist idea and perception of viewing the world is very true for many.

I've always wondered how materialists explain the undying and eternal human desire to be free. In any case, I don't think being a staunch materialist really matter unless you are part of a hierarchical religion (e.g. christianity, islam, judaism, etc.) Historical materialism is bunk in any case as well
>What's the deal with their obsession with moloch and shit ?
the bourgeois continue to be religious esoteric freaks, this is a key component to bourgeois culture. The bourgeois fill their cold inhuman hearts with pleasant and absurd rituals, you saw it with the monarchists, the SS, and you see it now with the capitalists.

either that or the upper strata know A LOT more than us, although I prefer the former just due to occam's razor.

>>1754606
If you go deep enough, you'll only see molecules, atoms and then waves.
The thing is, we have ways of getting information about them through the use of specialized tools that are able to perceive things beyond what our limited senses can. That is the closest thing to a material reality we're able to grasp, and we are constantly improving on our tools to do so. Our subjective reality only helps us interpret this data and give it some kind of human meaning or conclusion. And yes, different people can make different conclusions from the same data, it's what we call perspective and such.

When a schizophrenic perceives something that isn't there, he can't actually get "objective" proof about it through the use of tools. Just look at all the people claiming that UFOs exist and never providing any actual clear recording of one. Or all the people that believe in God, or ghosts, you get the point. There IS a very substantial difference between "normal" individuals and people with mental health issues, the difference being that most of the normal people share a baseline in how their senses capture data and this is what we use as the common reality of things (otherwise cooperation and society would be impossible!).

>Materialism is wrong because… I did drugs!
>I literally believe in magic
>No you see, Everything is subjective
>i saw an exorcism and shit
>my mind created the world
>Marx and Lenin are wrong because uh… I can't explain why
I can't tell if this thread is some weird raid or idealists in 2024 are just really this bad at arguing, but it's just more proof that idealism is a failure that boils down to personal feelings and wishful thinking.

matter doesn't exist, it's all waves and shit.
in fact, our experience of matter is an illusion, therefore idealist.

materialism is idealist.

>>1755268
"Your" "self" doesn't exist either so how can you have ideas?

>>1755063
>human desire to be free
lel
I dunno, like, "Information wants to be free"?

>>1750323
this

>>1755242
> idealists in 2024 are just really this bad at arguing
Always have been.
This reminds me of someone I knew that tried acid 1 time and then wouldn’t shut up about new age crap

98% of the time when people mean materialism they are just being retarded vulgar materialists. This question isn't even that interesting. Who gives a fuck about matter? Its being/existence that's the more interesting area. Western philosophy was pure garbage until Deleuze and Heidegger. Nobody should ever give a fuck about the idealism vs materialism debate. Its settled already. Move on.

>>1753957
>unironic iron march poster
holy fuck lmfao