No.1767059
>>1767026Fukuoka is a must-read.
Hopefully this thread stays at bright green enviromentalism…
No.1767065
Reminder: taking care of the ecosystem is not the same as primitivism.
(Someone will inevitably try to derail with this bullshit.)
No.1767093
thoughts on cybernetics as applied to ecology?
No.1767117
>>1767065ThisAlso recommend watching this documentary about Fukuoka from 1975.
Inb4
>he was anti-science and anti-techThat is selective and ignores the fact he studied them as a microbiologist and agricultural scientist to develop a better way of producing crops.
>>1767093I'd have to say no.
Cybernetics should be a contributing factor of the study in development of human healthcare, not the environment around us. And its for the reasons the documentary explains.
No.1767219
>>1767211A lot of light pollution isn't even stuff like streetlights which have an obvious and good utility. It's big neon signs advertising shops that aren't even open at night.
No.1767293
Anyone got any updates on the Zadists of Notre-Dame-des-Landes?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_to_Defendhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZAD_de_Notre-Dame-des-Landeshttps://zadforever.blog/about/It seems like the struggle has been dormant around the last few years post-2018 evictions.
No.1767312
>>1767293>ZAD Notre-Dame-des-Landes100% Recuperated.
Nuke the site from orbit.
Appeliste scum bobo cunts, etc.
No.1767420
smash the state!
abolish environmental policies!
decentralize everything!
make littering illegal LAWS ARE AUTHORITARIAN
No.1767426
>>1767420Wow some tasty liberal bait
>Anarchism is just when no state>Believes in policies made by politicians>Anarchy means no laws made by politicians so no rules so everyone will explode>Not littering is authoritarianWhat brainrot they've fed you, no one knows.
What we know for sure, is you've never read a book in your life.
No.1767452
>>1767430This kind of thing can only be fixed production-side, not consumption side. There's a fundamental problem with the way we think of production today. We don't consider the lifespan and ultimate end for products, because capitalism is only concerned with their material reality (use-value in marxist terms) between production and sale. After that it's completely disregarded as an "externality." We need all production to be engineered around the fact that the end product isn't simply going to vanish after it's sold on the market. You are never going to get capitalism to do this, only some partial and half-hearted gestures toward "recycling" and "sustainability."
No.1767478
bump
No.1767564
>>1767420so true bestie. it's way better to have informal rules that no one can know about
No.1768135
>>1767937or we could just look at actual "anarchist" experiments which inevitably either reinvent the things they claim to hate (secret police, prisons, conscription etc), or they join forces with libs or even fascists against the evil tankies, or they fail
>>1767956believe me, I've read plenty of these texts in my anarchist phase. a million utopian texts are nothing compared to contact with reality. it's not like there doesn't exist principled scientific critique of the party form either. in reality the proper organizational method, internal regulatory systems etc depends on material conditions and are nothing that can be worked out a priori. it's all contingent on the threat
in practice the party form is also anarchic (see: the Sino-Soviet split). I tried to raise this point with some local MLs, which they thought was me praising Leninist democratic centralism
No.1768140
>>1768135>24 page pdf with abstract mathematic diagrams>anarchism refutedYou do realize its a political philosophy and not a science? Its built off the desire of people, not the kind of shit you throw at them and say
this works follow it.
>>1768135> (secret police, prisons, conscription etc),Where? And another thing you failed to cover is the part where it said
pick your favorite because anarchism is not one central line of thought. Divided into mass gathering social anarchism and individualist anarchist tendancies the two of them not only have a different array of tactics, but entirely different goals aswell. Grouping it as one and treating it as a monolithic strain of thought just shows you understand nothing of it.
Pseud shit.
>or they join forces with libs or even fascists against the evil tankies, or they failJoining forces is false flag bullshit. Anarchists are against the premise to rule or be ruled.
No.1768150
As much as I hate the doomerism of
>>>/dead/ they are absolutely right about the cunts of leftypol who try and propagade new ways to others starting with
I used to be like you but then I had a change of heart the most phony way of saying you are inconsistent about your identity and your own desires in life. Always trying to be on
the winning team and always seeing for new places to escape to when it gets heated.
There is nothing you can do to change a hardened anarchist or a ML. They already have it drilled inside their skull what they want to do. There is only your reaction to them.
The rest who are guillable enough to try and establish dialogue end up in a feedback loop of shit-flinging back and forth walls of text in a cock measuring contest of who can prove the other right or wrong in front of the anons jerking off behind their screen.
When there is no point in doing so. And there is no point in trying to make synthesis or use strategic alliences. Ultimately one must eat the other. But an idea cannot be extinguished so it will continue past its grave - as a spectre.
Its an endless and pointless attempt at hijacking people to come towards your side.
Tankies cannot resist hopping on an anarchist thread and spilling shit all over it.
Anarchists cannot resist making a thread about why Leninism is evil to them.
It is nothing but a contradiction to try and make dialogue between them. The only things that can shape them is their own life experiences. Which they get none of because of the alienation they've reached from the amount of time they spend being chronically online.
No.1768152
>>1768150>There is nothing you can do to change a hardened anarchist or a ML. They already have it drilled inside their skull what they want to do. There is only your reaction to them.Lots of projection right here.
No.1768163
>>1768152When a ML does it its called revisionism.
When an anarchist does it its called being a traitor.
Somehow you still think change is a good thing.
The things the spectacle presents as eternal are based on change, and must change as their foundations change. The spectacle is totally dogmatic, yet it is incapable of arriving at any really solid dogma. Nothing stands still for it.
No.1768169
>>1768155
>When a ML does it its called revisionism.
Lenin was a revisionist. He revised some of the stuff that wasn't correct based on the new evidence. Revisionism is not bad by default, even if it became a dirty word for people who treat marxism as cult instead of science.
I consider myself ML because after extensive study of different literature and history it seems to have best answers. Best in the sense "have chance to actually work". Not necessarily answers i like, but you can't pick a reality based on what you like and what you don't.
No.1768367
>>1768179Lol, what a pretentious wanker you are.
No.1768573
>>1768140>You do realize its a political philosophy and not a science?so, subjectivism
>Where?revolutionary spain and rojava spring to mind
>Joining forces is false flag bullshit. Anarchists are against the premise to rule or be ruled.again, history shows you to be incorrect
all this doesn't mean anarchists can't have useful criticisms, but it gets immensely annoying when anarchists can't use normal words for things, insist on reinventing them from first principles etc.. this is also why I enjoy ribbing the local syndicalists, pointing out that they're engaging in anarchist statecraft
No.1771116
>>1768573>so, subjectivismRetard.
>revolutionary spain and rojava spring to mindRetard.
>again, history shows you to be incorrect>all this doesn't mean anarchists can't have useful criticisms, but it gets immensely annoying when anarchists can't use normal words for things, insist on reinventing them from first principles etc.. this is also why I enjoy ribbing the local syndicalists, pointing out that they're engaging in anarchist statecraftRetard.
Anarchists please continue the Ecology thread. It was interesting while it started.
Don't reply to these ML uygghas.
Also read Bordiga.
No.1771124
Post more cool documentaries and essays about ecological catastrophe and shit.
I like watching stuff like this:
https://crimethinc.com/videos/endciv No.1771734
>>1771524>no argumentMy argument? If they did, then it was based.
Now quit derailing a thread about enivromentalism and ecology - something Leninists never gave a shit about.
No.1771745
>>1768150>There is nothing you can do to change a hardened anarchist or a ML.You right about real MLs.
But being shelled in their own houses or being forcefully deprived from food and electricity can do wonders on your average westoid e-leftist or anarchokiddy. Basically touch grass.
No.1771748
>>1767026>that second picWonder where they get those fancy building materials, silicon and plastic for such star trek power fantasy architecture.
No.1771761
>>1771748How can we be sure the scifi mockup isn't made up of some a material that's environmentally friendly in the guesswork of green building?
Like in the ecohouse example of using natural materials.
No.1771791
>>1771761>How can we be surePhysics? Getting everything is still fall under laws of thermodynamics. You cant get shit without spending energy.
No.1771851
>>1771791Obviously if you want to be 100% ecological then its human extinction. Though its besides the point- to find a balance. To reduce and minimize harm to nature while still benefitting from it and nurturing it.
No.1772519
>>1771734>something Leninists never gave a shit aboutthis is literally incorrect. Soviet ecology was very much a thing. see here for example:
https://cibcom.org/limits-to-growth-in-communism/ No.1774103
>>1772519Very niche, moreso according to Innokentiy Gerasimov (1905 – 1985), who was the head of the Institute of Geography at the Academy of Sciences of the USSR from 1951 to 1985, ecology did not even enter the scientific vocabulary until the second half of the XIX century and was defined as the interaction of vegetation and animals with their environment.
The primary focus of the Soviet Union was industrialization, ecology came at last place. Which doesn't even cover half the issues the anti-civ folk have pointed out regarding the unsustainability of mass society. I'd like to see Leninists do a critique and analysis of them.
No.1774148
>>1773976>beaver black opsSounds like a strategy fit for the primitivists who call for a rewiliding.
Though from what I see most eco-anarchists' praxis is set on greening, plant growth
(see the permaculture thread on /hobby/ for reference https://leftypol.org/hobby/res/33648.html ).
No.1774155
>>1773976based. the government won't do shit, we need to take matters into our own hands
No.1774205
>>1773976beavers are a menace
my country reintroduced them some decades ago. now they're numerous and cause damage, to the point that we've started hunting them again
No.1774225
>>1774205'damage' to what? unsustanable development probably
No.1774229
>eco-fash using transhumanist meme flag
you are not fooling anyone buddy
No.1774240
>>1774229What exactly written on this thread is ecofascist? Who called for a population curb or genocide?
And do you not realize that even transhumanists and technophiles need to care for ecology to not die?
No.1774244
>>1774240maybe he's a 'turn entire earth into a city' schizo
No.1779624
>>1774205Italy? Wasn't it some made up bullshit about beavers being "illegal immigrants" or some dumb ragebait like that?
No.1781911
>>1771851>Obviously if you want to be 100% ecological then its human extinction.Nah. Humans intelligently managing the ecosystem would be better than us disappearing after all the damage we've caused.
>>1771748One of the benefits of getting rid of capitalism is we can invest research into sustainable and biodegradable or recyclable materials that just aren't profitable and therefore of no interest under capitalism.
No.1803483
>>1774103>The primary focus of the Soviet Union was industrialization, ecology came at last placesure. but the main point is that the situation we now find ourselves in will require marshalling the sum total of the human species to rectify. this task will require far more coordination and labour input than the second world war. so far there is nothing in the anarchist camp that comes close to addressing the issue, beyond piecemeal nonsense like
>>1773976 or smallholder farming or whatever else flavour of the week
>>1781911>Humans intelligently managing the ecosystem would be better than us disappearing after all the damage we've caused.this. appeal to nature is a common fallacy. nature is a cruel and shitty control system
No.1803817
>>1773976Insane levels of based on display
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