/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Communists know only too well that all conspiracies are not only useless, but even harmful. They know all too well that revolutions are not made intentionally and arbitrarily, but that, everywhere and always, they have been the necessary consequence of conditions which were wholly independent of the will and direction of individual parties and entire classes.

But they also see that the development of the proletariat in nearly all civilized countries has been violently suppressed, and that in this way the opponents of communism have been working toward a revolution with all their strength. If the oppressed proletariat is finally driven to revolution, then we communists will defend the interests of the proletarians with deeds as we now defend them with words.

>>1771357
read "On Adventurism" by Lenin

>>1771357
Because we need Great Men theory to prove to those chowder heads that a state is necessary to enforce it. Both important for a state and their citizens to thrive.

>be labour movement
>be ascendant
>random definitely-not-glowies commit act of terror
>porky cracks down on any and all labour orgs
every time

>>1771522
thats because the deed is not big enough.
I am not talking about the murder of innocent people, but the responsible for the massacre of the world. Retaliation must be brutal, make them feel pain, such as the murder of a family member, or themselves.

>>1771572
Glow

It's an art not a science. If workers seized an Amazon warehouse people would cheer. If they killed Jeff Bezos people would mourn.

>>1771575
That has happened many times and the polices always comes in and restores private power.
Whats the next move?

>>1771578
You fortify the warehouse and hold it hostage and escape through a tunnel.
Or you kill the cops if they try to restore private property. Nobody would mourn cops like they would Jeff Bezos.

>>1771580
You kill the cops and the SWAT comes in
You would need to hold your ground for at least some days to gain popular support and take the cops off your back

>>1771572
yes yes millions of porkies must die. but acting prematurely is foolish

>>1771592
You'd be surprised 1 million people would be enough to hold ground anywhere in the us really. How many cops are there in most states? Not as many as you'd think. They'd be hesitant to bring the soldiers and heavy guns.

>>1771594
Dog the american government doesn't give a shit, they'll kill anyone in their way. The FBI is always praying for a civil war so they can secure their budget.

Because i wasnt born yet.

>>1771594
Organising 1 million people into armed revolt without getting arrested seems impossible to me

>>1771597
In Somalia they tooks down a lot of expensive American military equipment with just ak47s and RPGs. They did have RPGs though. The us government is not into carnage of its own citizens. It'd be bad for it's public image. They'd have to write the warehouse off.

>>1771603
Dog they're funding a genocide right now, they don't give a shit about PR.

people forget more easily nowadays
politicans and even individual bourgeoisie are replaceable during a stage of highly concentrated and meticulously managed capitalism

>>1771602
The dsa have 80,000 members. Good enough. Getting them to go ham would be something else though lol
Washington state where the warehouses are has less than 10,000 cops

>>1771612
80000 members is far and away from 80000 willing militants.

>>1771612
no offense anon but i hope for your sake youre a teenager

>>1771758
You'll never get anywhere by explaining things. It doesn't have to be a stand off with the cops but it has to be something… Another idea would be squatting on houses owned by black rock for example.

>>1771763
this is exactly what i mean, youre conception of political strategy is this childish dichotomy and youre talking about it like the right option simply needs to be chosen

>>1771766
Desantis almost got elected by sending immigrants to marta's vineyard. Not that I'm a desantis fan but really the angle here is wrong. There's this notion that the far left are the establishment now which is laughable. Most people remember occupy wallstreet though. There's YouTube channels like second thought but nobody cares. This is not what people want bros.

>>1771580
>>1771591
You get put under siege and nobody is going to come help you to be honest.

>>1771357
>What you think?
It's more a form of narcissistic self-expression than building a movement with a base through sustained organizing (which is really about building relationship) that shows up. It's saying "my feelings are so important that I can do anything I want." It's saying that once other people see how important my feelings are they will join me. There's only two kinds of people who advocate this: very stupid people and cops.

>>1771580
>Nobody would mourn cops like they would Jeff Bezos.
this is the most retarded shit i have ever heard. the average petty booj hates lizard people like jeff bezos and loves their local cops and small biz tyrants.

>>1771357
it takes effort (no killing random people like chinletdy)
your target has to be high profile enough to be immortalised in history

A single potd single handedly set off an historic conflagration that ended four empires and have birth to the world's first worker's state.

>>1771575
>If they killed Jeff Bezos people would mourn.
You sure? Hard to believe.

>>1771921
dude's face is like 'please send help'

>>1771961
There are a lot of stupid jerks that worship the image of the man if not the man himself. One of my teachers in school idolized him for "making something from nothing," self made man shit.

The attitudes from the replies to OP are so fucking baffling to me. So OP wants to actually *do something* and fight the class struggle and you all respond by calling him a fed and advocating for total non-action?

And of course the cops will crush you *if you let them*, but surely you can outsmart a few local high school dropouts? Like what ever happened to sabotage and subterfuge? You don't have to literally get in to a shootout with the cops to achieve anything (and the number one priority for any action should be to *not get caught*).

When you try and push for any real action either online and IRL you always get "there's no point doing anything because we'll just lose" - how tf do people expect to ever achieve anything with this attitude? The US lost to the viet cong, for fucks sake. You don't need an army of a million class conscious soldiers to fight US imperialism (and you would definitely lose, if you tried to fight that way), but at the same time, a motivated group of individuals could literally undermine the entire US economy by targetting critical infrastructure - and yet you fuckers are all like "it's hopeless, you're a fed, just argue online in your bubble and do nothing".

OP, if you talk to basically any western leftist for long enough it becomes clear that the real reason they don't want to take any real action & would rather endlessly circlejerk about theory & 'hot takes' and only ever participate in radlib causes like marches for palestine, etc., is because they *don't actually think that mass class struggle* is in their own personal interest (i.e. things would get worse for them personally if people actually started fighting direct class warfare). Basically, the answer to "how tf do leftists expect to ever achieve anything with this attitude?" is, that they don't expect to achieve anything. They don't *actually* want to.

>>1772025
Look anon do you realise that you can be arrested for this kind of thing? Even if I supported OP would I say it?

>>1772025
Why on earth would you come to a leftist website as OP and then be surprised when people say that you'd be better of actually organising instead of doing larp shit?

>>1772034
Tell that to the guys who said they should kill Chitwood.

>>1772027

kek, you can be arrested for existing while black, or for expressing leftist thoughts, in most of the world.

it's not that you *can* be arrested, but rather than you *absolutely will* be arrested, if caught, for taking any meaningful action whatsoever against capital interests. How is that any excuse to oppose action?

>>1772028

And? The vast majority of *serious* crimes (i.e. murder) go totally unsolved. The overwhelming majority of crimes go unsolved, the vast vast majority of crimes are never even reported or recorded, let alone solved. The average porkie commits more crimes in a day than the average prole could hope to in their lifetime, and the vast majority never experience a single consequence. Stop perpetuating the idea that the enemy is completely invincible and infallible, and stop paralyzing yourself with fear.

>>1772035
>The US lost to the viet cong, for fucks sake. >You don't need an army of a million class conscious soldiers to fight US imperialism
Wtf are you even talking about btw, the viet resistance was a large organised military force not a few brave men taking individual action.
You're actually delusional, I hate that you people are so dumb it makes me miserable to share a race with you all.

>>1772037
>How is that any excuse to oppose action?

I dunno anon maybe if you want 'action' you should organised it somewhere that's at least semi-private?

The way I see it, the point of an assassination or other such vigiliante actions isn't to bring about the revolution, not directly anyway. It's more about making your your message heard, when done correctly it could spread class consiousness and inspire people to be more radical. You'd most likely get imprisoned or merced tho, you'd be martyr for what ever the fuck you believe in…

>>1772046
>when done correctly it could spread class consiousness and inspire people to be more radical.
To what end?
How if you want them to join leftist orgs would it not be better to invite them to join and materialy aid them rather than hoping a vague violent spectacle will make them see from your perspective?

>>1772041
Please type "guerrilla warfare" in Google, friend. The viet cong were massively outgunned by the US, but they specifically *didn't* fight a traditional war

>>1772025
>>1771357
no you dipshit, the point isnt that you shouldnt actually do anything, its that OP and your idea of what "doing something" actually looks like is so embarassingly naive that anyone who has ever spent years of their life swimming against the tide by seriously working in communist organizations can recognize this for what it is a mile away: its childish fantasies of heroism from people without the perspective to understand the massive logistical effort it takes to organize people towards political ends in a consistent or meaningful way. you think people are scolding you for advocating violence or whatever, no, people are telling you it is hard enough to consistently get 15 likeminded people to take a few hours out of each week to get together to hand out food or work at a community garden. do you have any idea how much work and commitment it would take to rob a bank or plant a bomb in minecraft? where are you going to find people who dont only have the relevant skills and courage, but are willing to likely give up at the least their freedom and very likely also their life in the effort? and even if you DO somehow find a dozen people with that level of skill and commitment, there is the HUGE question of whether or not spectacular propaganda of the deed would be even remotely useful. in the vast majority of contexts, especially in most of the contemporary world, it would be a FUCKING WASTE to use people with that very rare level of commitment for some attempt at "propaganda of the deed".

and look, im not saying dont get involved in black bloc or anything, there is a lot of important experience to be gained there. but if thats the angle you want to take, theres 2 things you should be aware of: 1. serious black bloc people are serious about opsec and if you go around them saying this kind of shit they will understandably think youre a cop or at best too naive to not be a liability 2. black bloc actions and the like are good for maintaing street-level pressure during moments of unrest, but they are NOT the basis for revolutionary organization. black bloc people are good at manning the barricades, but for the barricades to stay up for long enough to lead to something better you NEED the boring busy work. you should get started now because it can take years to find an organization that is actually worth spending the time doing boring busywork for, and the experiences with failed projects and shit orgs is an almost inevitable hurdle, you can learn a lot from those failures but it is better to get started sooner rather than later so you can find some serious communists eventually

>>1772056
Please read anything on the subject instead of handeaving about guerrilla warfare to misdirect from being dead wrong.

>>1772056
you are a fucking imbecile, the guerilla warfare in vietnam was carried out ALONGSIDE a massive conventional military campaign of millions of vietnamese regulars with tanks and artillery. there ARE examples of more straightforward guerilla wars won by the guerillas (algeria, afghanistan) but of course you think of vietnam because you uncritically and arrogantly assume that your pop culture slop diet has adequately informed you about the world

>>1772061
And what exactly do you do in those orgs?
I ask because I legit want to do something but I cant contact any anarchist org or global warming org like XR (I am a foreigner in Japan so its more difficult).

I am considering joining the indigenous cause in my country because I see enormous revolutionary potential. I do not expect any support from anyone except from the natives themselves.

>Threat the elite with possible death at any moment to further the revolutionary cause. Make them pay a price for their evil actions.
Alright, then what?

>>1777788
Revolution and full communism.

>>1771359
based engelschad

I mean it didn't. That guy shot Franz Ferdinand and the resulting chaos lead to the creation of the Soviet Union and the destruction of the Ottoman, German, and Austrian empires. It's probably the most successful revolutionary act of all time.

>In our eyes, individual terror is inadmissible precisely because it belittles the role of the masses in their own consciousness, reconciles them to their powerlessness, and turns their eyes and hopes towards a great avenger and liberator who some day will come and accomplish his mission (…) If we oppose terrorist acts, it is only because individual revenge does not satisfy us. The account we have to settle with the capitalist system is too great to be presented to some functionary called a minister.
This is why left wing terrorism stopped being relevant to the movement after the 19th century.

>>1771603
They will just light you on fire, blame you for recklessness, then have "schitzos" put out shitty conspiracy theory videos about how the government did it

The big and sole problem is that most of the time it isn't directed by an organized proletarian movement. Turns out individually burning down some important building in the hopes of generating more unrest by your actions doesn't actually do anything. It's anarkiddy delusions from bored petit bourgeois egomaniacs.

Hey, remember that burger soldier who burned hims- (USER WAS BANNED)

>>1771357
>Take for example the recent Palestine protests. Protesters even went to the home of politicians and weapon manufacturers. Yet nothing changed.
<Yet nothing changed.
Thats false because we have been closing factories and forcing the issue.
>The missing ingredient was bullets through their windows. Surely there will be a reaction
<Surely there will be a reaction
Yes of course but not the reaction anyone wants.

>>1771357
>>1805618
lmao i actually read the rest of the op and comparing blowing up a vacant bus in the middle of the street to organized protesters trying to sabotage weapons manufacturing when an active war is going on… just lol

>>1805594
Exactly. The government will promote these reactionary theories, perhaps even generate an entire industry out of it, just like what happened with Mr. Lee Harvey Oswald.

>Why did [obviously retarded concept doomed to fail] failed?
Never change, /leftypol/

>>1805869
Oh look it's the nazi butthurt belter
Dobryj den, now go electrocute yourself

>>1772056
The strategic goal of guerilla doctrine is to elevate the guerilla army into a conventional army.

>>1805587
> belittles the role of the masses in their own consciousness, reconciles them to their powerlessness, and turns their eyes and hopes towards a great avenger and liberator who some day will come and accomplish his mission
incidentally this is also why superheroes are such a convenient form of liberal propaganda.

>>1771522
porky doesn't need the excuse, but it is convenient