No.1771387
rightoids always suck off the police because they believe the police prevent crime, and leftoids argue against this using a bunch of metrics and statistics showing that cops don't prevent crime and are in fact just the protectors of the wealthy. But this conclusion can be arrived at entirely through reason alone, without even needing a bunch of boring long term studies. one need only ask oneself a series of questions:
>what would happen if everyone stopped committing crimes? would the state disband the police?
<No! You can't just fire thousands of armed and dangerous people just because they aren't needed anymore. They will fuck your shit up. They're here to collect a check, whether they do real work or just engage in rent seeking thuggery.
>if society stopped committing crime and the state did somehow "disband the police" how would police respond?
<by throwing a shit fit, becoming violent criminals, and basically creating the demand for the police to return through their own violent actions, creating a paradox. if crime disappears, the police become the criminals, meaning crime cannot disappear.
>if the police would not disband if everyone stopped committing crimes, because they are in fact a group of armed people who are monopolizing violence, then can it really be said their job is to prevent crime?
<No. because if crime disappeared they would stick around, inducing the demand for their services by sowing chaos.
>If the police cannot be said to be stopping crime, then what is their real job?
<their real job must be the protection of the ruing class propagandists who claim that the police are stopping crime.
>who are the ruling class propagandists who claim that the police are stopping crime?
<the property owners.
No.1771453
>>1771393you're not responding to anything in the OP
No.1771468
>>1771453Then you cannot read as OP is doing exactly what I stated. The police stop crime and protect people, just not the way leftoids want to. Trying to holding up the police or any other element of capitalism against an abstract ideal that isn't rooted in reality or even history - typical liberal behavior.
No.1772334
>>1771468I am OP and you are not responding to anything I said. You are just accusing me of having a misconception that I don't because I didn't bring it up in the OP.
No.1772356
>>1772334don't even engage this guy just explains how neoliberal austerity is ackshually socialism in
USApol
No.1772370
>>1771387>what would happen if everyone stopped committing crimesHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>if society stopped committing crime and the state did somehow "disband the police" how would police respond? Oh you're serious? Let me laugh even harder!
Seriously this is either extremely retarded bait, or ultra-retarded idealist wanking of a strawman. Your series of questions is laughable liberal nonsense.
No.1772494
>>1772370Its a symptom of the logical debate bro. Ratio must prevail, never stop thinking.
No.1772597
>>1772370>she can't extrapolate OP's reasoning into a gradient, where police are incentivized to keep crime rates up, not just above absolute zerongmi smh
No.1772616
>>1771387>>1772370>>1772597Congrats comrades you have just discovered Praxeology.
If crime is so low that police are unnecessary, the police apparatus will be restructured where the officers are given new jobs (demobilization). A core back-bone will remain like how we have a small professional military in some countries and the civilians are the draft pool in case of war.
Although I have to state something very important. This scenario would only happen in places that are stuck in some kind of medieval stasis (i.e. euroid city states with only old people) and other very specific circumstances where porkies "give back" enough to the local plebs for them to accept their conditions as normal. Otherwise picrel would happen.
No.1772749
There will be cops in a socialist state. Cope
No.1773143
>>1772749I'm not talking about cops under socialism but cops under capitalism.
>>1772370these questions were being put forward as thought experiments,not serious things that could actually happen. "All else remaining the same, if X happened, how would Y respond" reveals something about Y. It was not meant to be a serious proposal with regards to X. You're missing the forest for the trees.
No.1773185
>>1772749The state will wither away in socialism, cope
No.1773192
>>1773185state does not equal law and police. read marx
No.1773214
>>1773192>a classless stateless society will have law and policeleftypol where brains go to die
No.1773216
>>1773214So insane people will not exist in Communism? Jails will not exist in Communism? Class conflict does not constitute ALL conflict, you fucking nitwit. You think state in the marxist sense is synonymous with government?
No.1773218
>>1771387Unrelated but is orange text popular here or is it just you making all these posts? New here, sorry if it's a dumb question
No.1773253
>>1773216>insane peopleActual mental healthcare institutions and specialists will take care of that. No need to have cops shooting kittens out of trees.
>JailsNo, actually address the issues instead of hiding them under your bed.
>Class conflict doesn't constitute all conflictThe kinds of conflicts cops and jails deal with are class conflicts, no one's going to jail over waifu preferences.
>you think the state in a marxist sense is synonymous with government?Who told you it wasn't?
No.1773367
>>1773218orange text is for quoting a back/forth or double implying
No.1773376
>>1773367I remember back when 8chan first added it, and it was like, green = funnytext, red = serioustext. I'm glad it's evolved into how it's currently used, much more useful.
No.1773463
>>1773253 NTA but
>actually address the issues instead of hiding them under your bed.Understood, next time someone commits assault or other serious felonies, we'll execute them right away, no need to waste time in jail! The idea that suddenly various criminals, or incurable psychopaths won't exist is utopian. Would a socialist system reduce this? Yes. Would a socialist system provide better alternatives for people like drug addicts and minor criminals or so on? Yes. But that doesn't mean that there won't be outliers, and with the currently rising global population, these outliers are still a very high number.
>the state in a marxist sense is synonymous with government? >Who told you it wasn't?Anyone with a brain. Under Capitalism States are nonphysical juridical entities while governments are the exclusive, tangible organizations responsible for making and reinforcing status quo through legally coercive organization.
No.1773465
>>1773143>these questions were being put forward as thought experimentsThey're idiotic thought experiments because they reject fundamental aspects of human societies. Unless we literally enslave humanity to a hive-mind that would stop anyone from committing crimes, these questions are fucking meaningless and fallaciously used to prove a false point.
No.1773731
>>1773463It sounds like you don't so much want a jail, but a research facility. Like you correctly identify there'll be situations where someone needs to be constrained in some way until they can chill out, but there are material reasons that these 'outliers' would exist, and to waste any opportunities to study those cases would be like shrugging of water mysteriously entering a boat as an outlier.
Also you didn't say "governments under capitalism" before, so no, a state is still a form of government by definition. A socialist state / government is obviously better at being one than a capitalist state / government, but that's a whole different goalpost.
No.1773769
>>1773216>but we need police for insane peopleDeath to Americans. Death to Americans.
No.1773836
Why debate when you can simply consult what AES countries do? I've been reliably informed that socialism exists in China, and they have cops, so what else is there to talk about?
No.1775222
>>1773465not really. a thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory, or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences. The situation does not have to be real, the point is the consequences. You are just being an angry jerk for the sake of it.
No.1776801
>>1773214>Stateless = lawlessLiberal-anarchoid thinking right here
No.1786338
>>1771387pig chimps have little logic and restrain dont trust them
No.1798072
>>1773836A lot of people in this thread are idiots who belong in jail, they are looking for naive ideologies who are about to try this experiment yet again
No.1798901
>>1773836base precedes superstructure so a socialist base means socialist law enforcement in the superstructure. while a capitalist base means capitalist law enforcement in the superstructure. in a socialist society laws constitute a dictatorship of the proletariat class. In a capitalist society laws constitute a dictatorship of the bourgeois class.
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