/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

If Beria took Stalin's place, the Soviet Union would have been a darker place. Beria's reign would likely have been marked by brutal purges and tighter control, but whether he'd fully sell out to capitalists is up for debate.

Now, if Malenkov ousted Khrushchev, we'd see a Stalinist revival. Expect more repression and centralized control. This would likely escalate tensions in the Cold War, making things even more volatile on the global stage.

Lazar Kaganovich should have taken over after Stalin.

>>1780447
You're a fuckwit if you think Kaganovich would've been any better

>>1780451
Explain in detail please.

>>1780364
bro these upscales are ugly af. the originals in the TIME archive are higher res too if i recall

>>1780442
>Beria's reign would likely have been marked by brutal purges and tighter control
Not so sure about that. He tried to free half the gulag population as soon as Stalin died to the point his mass release of prisoners basically kickstarted the russian mafia.
The fact he was so efficient while leading the pre-KGB doesn't necessarily mean he would run the Union in a more oppressive way than Stalin. Consider he also wanted to reunite Germany as a neutral state and get his hands on American aid. From what we know, it looks like he was mainly concerned with power; a social climber with no real allegiances to people or ideologies. He didn't really believe in communism either, which makes it easier to imagine he'd be willing to succumb to capitalism if it meant securing and solidifying his power/status both domestically and globally.
That said, I find it very hard to believe he was ever willing to abandon his insidious secret police-related ways of suppressing dissent.

>>1780442
> If Beria took Stalin's place, the Soviet Union would have been a darker place.
You have been reading too much Anti-Beria propaganda straight from Khrushchev. I hope you know that Beria replaced Yazov? Yazov was the one who did unwarranted arrest and corruptly used his office. Stalin summoned Beria from Georgia to clean up the mess and he did exactly that. Beria was the one who released many wrongfully arrested people and actually ran the NKVD efficiently.Beria was also not obsessed with his position and was similar to Stalin in that he did it as a duty. Stalin wanted him there because he was reliable(Beria also had special respect for Stalin according to his son) and Beria feared someone worse than Yazov would end up replacing him. Beria being this monster who would have 1984'd the USSR is a ridiculous one and shows a lack of understanding of the man. He was responsible for moving the factories past the Urals during the Great Patriotic War and he was responsible for the nuclear program. He showcased pragmatism and wanted socialism to be more than just an idea coming from intelligencia.
>Beria's son said, "My father was basically convinced that everything depended on the economy. Once that was emancipated, ideology would follow." Beria took an axe to the tree (Central Commmittee) and he made sweeping reforms at lightning speed, all that remained was the Presidium. In one stroke, he'd have liberated communism from theory. Marx would no longer be the sporting game of university professors.
He did believe in socialism but it was about how to get there. By selling out the most he would do is similar to what Deng did in China or what Andropov attempted to do. No Sino-Soviet split under Beria and Germany would be like Austria which allows for a buffer from NATO. He would've been an effective leader for the USSR and its a shame he didnt get the chance

>>1780484
>Beria

<Journalist Anatoly Kopeikin, who emigrated from the USSR to Paris in 1983, wrote a review of the publication by the Yakovlev Foundation of materials on the Beria case (Lavrenty Beria. 1953. Transcript of the July plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU and other documents. M., MFD, 1999. 512 p.), a few lines from it: "There is no doubt that if Beria had been at the helm of the USSR, the "perestroika" would have begun 30 years earlier and would not have ended as deplorably as under Gorbachev. In my opinion, deideologization of the system would not be excluded either. From a totalitarian one, he could have become some kind of traditional dictatorship… Khrushchev acted like any otherthe future communist: took the program of the destroyed enemy and thereby gained popularity."

He was a British spy. Fuck, can't find the investigation into Beria's past in 1920s. He was exposed as having stolen other Beria's past. It was a report on this investigation, and it came up to the attention of investigators that Beria didn't actually fell into imprisonment by Georgian mensheviks ever, and was actually doing something else entirey. But the writer of his biography - and Beria himself - claimed that Beria was imprisoned like that other Beria

>Beria's son

He was an anticommunist, and using his father's name he got himself a cozy business of admitting to all the Soviet crimes and myths he could for fame and money

<Sergo wrote the book "My father is Lavrenty Beria"[14]. He believed that repression and terror had been an integral part of the existence of the Soviet state since its creation, and that was why his father suffered. The son of Vsevolod Merkulov, a close associate of Beria, who was shot with him, noted: "I was well acquainted with Sergo, before my eyes he was starting to work. I've read his book, of course. Admittedly, most of what is written in it is a lie"[15].

<Publicist Vladimir Bushin also drew attention to the improbability of Sergo's memoirs: "He writes that in 1943, as a cadet at the Military Academy of Communications, he participated in the maintenance of the Tehran Conference. Perhaps, but at the same time he also assures that Stalin simply could not take a step without him, talked with him every day for an hour and a half, and now and then asked for advice: "What do you think Roosevelt will answer to such a proposal? And Churchill is cunning, do you notice?“ etc . But that's just bragging!"[16].

<Roy Medvedev noted: "I knew Sergo Beria — he searched everywhere for certificates, documents of that time and tried to improve public opinion about the father he loved…"[17]

<Marshal of Artillery P. N. Kuleshov characterized him: "I did not notice any special talents for Sergei Beria… But he grew up in the service quickly. At the expense of what? I think he was able to pass off the success of the team as his own"[18].

>>1780484
>>1780601
"Malenkov filled the beginning and end of his speech with general unsubstantiated chatter about what a scoundrel Beria was, and in the middle he also reported the facts of his specific crimes…"These are the facts that the Plenum of the Central Committee should know about. Last week, on the eve of the day when we decided to consider Beria's case in the Presidium of the Central Committee, he came to me with a proposal to take steps through the Ministry of Internal Affairs to normalize relations with Yugoslavia. I told him that this issue should be discussed in the Central Committee. What kind of offer is this? In the materials now seized from Beria, there is the following document: "I take this opportunity to convey to you, Comrade Rankovich, a big greeting from Comrade Beria, who remembers you well. Comrade Beria instructed me to inform you personally, strictly confidentially, that he and his friends stand for the need for a radical revision and improvement of relations between the two countries. In this regard, Comrade Beria asked you to personally inform Comrade Tito about this, and if you and Comrade Tito share this point of view, it would be advisable to organize a confidential meeting of specially authorized persons. The meeting could be held in Moscow, but if you find this unacceptable for some reason, then in Belgrade. Comrade Beria expressed confidence that no one but you and Comrade Tito will know about this conversation." Beria did not manage to implement this measure due to the fact that we turned events in relation to him personally in a different direction."
I'm sorry, but this is… an execution. Tower. Treason to the Motherland. I will explain if it is not immediately clear to someone. At that time, relations with Yugoslavia continued to remain the same as they had been under Stalin. With the severance of diplomatic relations. Broz Tito, whom many suspect of old ties with British intelligence, unleashed brutal terror against the Yugoslav Communists after coming to power. Stalin openly called him a fascist, i.e., relations with the Tito regime were even worse than relations with the United States.
And then the Minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs-MGB of the USSR, using his agents, goes to establish a direct conspiratorial connection with the head of an unfriendly USSR state. I emphasize, a conspiratorial connection: "Comrade Beria expressed confidence that no one but you and Comrade Tito will know about this conversation."

>>1780447
found the TNO fan lmao

>>1780364
Beria was a liberal georgian nationalist who wanted to accept an american buyout of the USSR and dismantle everything there was left of the proletarian dictatorship. He had nothing but contempt for marxism and didn't believe the construction of socialism was possible or desirable. Had he taken power he would've dismantled the soviet union and reintegrated into world capitalism.

Malenkov was a weak 'technocrat' who wanted to 'depoliticise' the running of the state and economy, ie. dismantle the party and the workers state. He also embraced religious dogmatism and anti-semitism, in no way a communist.

Pretty much everyone in Stalin's inner circle was an opportunistic careerist just cynically repeating talking points to accrue power and build up their patronage network. So any better outcomes were pretty much foreclosed and revolution was irreversibly degenerated.
Molotov was probably the most reliable one who actually believed in communism, as much as he was personally weak and lacked charisma or support in the party since everyone (rightly) viewed him as a pathetic figure, completely lost without Stalin around. But he was a sincere and a better communist than Stalin at least, understaning Stalin's misconceptions but unwilling and unable to challange him in any way.

>>1780607
NTA but also there's a mod called 'Cold War Iron Curtain' in HOI4 that their devs have been working on extention of soviet paths as Lazar Kaganovich will implement early cyberneticization efforts.

>>1780364
Nothing would have changed.

>>1780364
Beria would have turned Soviet Union into his personal pedogulag. Khrushchev did NOTHING wrong when he got rid of these people and ending Stalins personality cult.

TNO-tier great man theory thread.

Beria's own son reflected on how Beria admired European social-democracy more than Soviet socialism. So take from that what you will. Malenkov would have been based because he scared the shit out of Churchill, but alas, of all the possible successors he was the least interested in power.

>>1780479
all these problems would probably not happen if he was the gensec because he would have more people behind him looking at what he does.

>>1780364
>Let's theorize/fantasize about alternate history.
Why? To what end?
There's something seriously wrong with you people I stg.

>>1780787
Go and do a crossword or saduku or read a book or something anon.

>>1780889
You never think about "what if" scenarios? Do you think shitposting on chans is serious business?

>>1780920
What if Horus Lupercal won

Are there good sources or books about who Beria actually was and what he did or thought?

>>1780364
>Beria
Fully Epstein Luxury Communism

>>1780783
Studying what were the proposals of other people for how to run the government we can come to conclusions.
And also: fun

>What if Beria won
Age of consent in the USSR is abolished
>What if Malenkov won?
Holodomor 2

>>1781353
>Holodomor 2
There would need to be a Holodomor 1 first.

i misread beria as bernie

Great man™ theory of history on leftypol. Nobody here ever read Marx

>>1780619
>Stalin only survives if Beria is purged
Is this implying Beria killed Stalin?

Also what if Stalin didn't die at all until he was 90+? I find it hard to believe the party was willing to replace him while still alive. So what's more likely?
>1: he retains 100% of his power and influence until he dies of old age; his word is still religiously followed despite his degrading mental capabilities
>2: the party keeps him in a "symbolic" role as head of state but his actual powers are gradually shifted elsewhere (like what happened with ᴉuᴉlossnW)
>3: a conspiracy to get rid of him emerges sooner or later and he gets killed by a faction within the party

I think the most important question here is what if I had become the leader of the Soviet Union after Stalin. I probably would have outdid Stalin as the greatest leader of all time whether peace time or war time even if I didn't lead during WW2 because I would lead the Soviet Union to unprecedented heights. I would not say I would've been strictly a technocratic leader but that my sights would not have been solely on industrial domination but the absolute domination of culture and spread that culture as superior and allowed the citizens to freely exercise their creative muscles and crush our western enemies by creating the most best movies from blockbuster like entertainment to deeply complex films and books to music and DESTROYED the west with just better everything. It would've been competition sure but a more evolved form of competition. The west would've been crushed by our cultural superiority alongside our technical superiority and greatness and color tv would've been mass produced in the 40s, decades before it came to the west. All the western liberal cowardly philosophers would've been obsessively making cultural critiques of my cultural prowess to dominate all culture and make them all love the creative capacities of Communist citizens.

This is why it was foolish for Stalin to surround himself with brown nosers rather than someone with an eye for the power of culture to dominate the minds of humans, he should've waited until I was born and let me take the reigns.

>>1781353
fam, it would be 29th Holodomor actually, there was a Holodomor every year and a trillion Ukrianians dieded

>>1782471
Imagine Mao but with less wives and no bigger brother communist country that goes revisionist to panic about

>>1781353
>Age of consent in the USSR is abolished
jokes on you there was no traditional 'age of consent' in soviet law

>>1785090
I wonder why

i hate you all. total wikipediabrain death !

>>1791253

>Quotes Wikipedia Article.
>Wikipedia Article Quotes Debunked sources.
>Still Uses Wikipedia article to push libtard bullshit.
>Get's Called out.
>Waits till everyone goes asleep and then continues to push libtard bullshit.
>Gets called out again.
>Cries and goes back to r/destiny to masturbate with his fellow liberal parastites.

God people like you are going to be getting shot when shit goes down, you and your fellow "Liberals" are worse than fucking Facists as at the very least facists are very open about there politcal beliefs while you and your ilk like to disguise it in a thin veineer of shit while also undermining the will of the proletariat and sucking capitalisims cock so hard your mouth goes raw with cum and sweat.

God i hate liberals there way worse than Conservatives.

>>1791253
There was an entire debate thread dedicated to this shit. >>1784062

>>1792256
>Wikipedia Article Quotes Debunked sources
Who debunked them?

>>1792268
basic source analysis from anons.

>>1792523
Shouldn't be hard to remove it from wikipedia if the source is so blatantly bogus, did anyone try?
It looks like the only guy that proposed the removal of that paragraph did so by arguing it's not a "notable" information, as sex with 14 years olds was not forbidden by law back then.

>>1792539
>Shouldn't be hard to remove it from wikipedia if the source is so blatantly bogus, did anyone try?
ikr, the wikipedia is so based of facts and factual evidence that just presenting them will have it be rewriten, there is totaly no bias in it, just look at the holodomor discussion page to see how honest they are !

>>1780938
Sorry, Heretard, this is NOT a safe space for you

>>1792539
Might wanna check out >>1531900

>>1792578
Not saying it's a flawless system (far from it) but its global rules of inclusion put a lot of emphasis on the "reliability" of sources; a few years ago I witnessed some questionable background info on Che Guevara getting deleted after a discussion by contributors (despite the info being sourced from a published book, and not contradicted by other sources with higher hierarchy). But it admittedly happened within the Wiki in my native language, which is notably more "malleable" than the english version in terms of rules.

That said, if you're implying the entire point was defaming Stalin/CPSU/communism from the beginning, why would they wait 10 years to add that info? I know there are many bad actors editing pages but that paragraph was added by a Norwegian socialist.

Why do people seem to think that Malenkov was some level headed hardline Stalinist when he was really a rat. Molotov was the best choice.

>>1808212
Molotov? Why?