No.1789525
>If you hoard perishable goods it goes bad, therefore there is a low incentive to hard it, and strong incentive to consume it or circulate it quickly
>if you hoard non-perishable goods, it doesn't go bad, but it may still be consumed. there is a medium incentive to hoard it, or keep it from circulation
>if something is non-perishable, and non-consumable, there is a strong incentive to hoard it, even if its entire use value is to be circulated
>therefore people hoard money even though its use value is to be circulated
>because the economy functions best when things circulate quickly, the lack of circulation caused by hoarding is like a blood clot. bad for the health, and potentially fatal.
>the credit system was invented to get around this
>but what if money simply had an expiration date instead? what if it went back to the public fund if you didn't use it?
people make fun of him for this, but I think it's a neat idea. one of the biggest problems i run into in game design is that hoarding money is an OP strategy even in games where pay is very low for missions and side quests. making money oxidize would balance gameplay in a lot of games. Why wouldn't it balance gameplay irl?
<inb4 reddit
<inb4 harvey is senile
<inb4 read cockshott
<inb4 neo-bernsteinite
No.1789528
The concept of money should have an expiration date (when the revolution happens).
No.1789530
>>1789525Make a better game design, then. This vid talks about this specific kind of game design - having just enough resources on the map at every episode to progress and not much more.
In regards to the topic, applying that game design would mean that instead of fixing capitalist circulation of money just make a balanced account of production and consumption
No.1789531
just print more money and inflation will naturally wither away the value of money
No.1789533
>>1789530>having just enough resources on the map at every episode to progress and not much more. "episodes" or "levels" aren't essential to all games thoughever
No.1789534
>>1789531you joke but in a way that actually does function as an expiration date for people who hoard money. problem is it also hurts people who only use money to buy goods they need on a daily basis. and it hurts them even more than it hurts the hoarders.
No.1789537
>>1789533Not all games, but you can episodise real world into, ahem, 5 Year Plans
No.1789554
>win internationally
WIN INTERNATIONALLY
you've done that? Yes ok
>Use cybernetics to find the input/outputs of all wants and needs on the local, regional, global
>Assign labor voucher value to the entire global totality
>Only adjust that totality if population and living standards… Change
>This essentially stops the deflation/inflation dynamic of capital exchange
>Vouchers expire as means to keep with the set totality
So that's my assessment of what will be doing post capitalism. What he's talking about here is the in-between until we advance to the next phase.
No.1789568
>>1789554Ultimately, money is about how labor is getting distributed within the economy. Where people get paid more there's more people willing to go to work there, and their consumption of goods increases when they produce a product that's more needed by society than other products
If we llok at money like labor allocation system, and assume that communism gets rid of money, it just means that labor allocation becomes so efficient that there's no need to assign priorities and force people to work, i.e. workers know what society needs and produce that.
Why do you need vouchers and expiration date? It's clearly a problem of information and logistics and planning and not of… whatever vouchers are supposed to solve
No.1789615
>>1789525>one of the biggest problems i run into in game design is that hoarding money is an OP strategy Tax wealth hoarding and/or include inflation mechanics.
No.1789619
if you could afford to do this you could afford to overhaul society enough to just have labor vouchers so it seems pointless
No.1789628
Blocks you path
No.1789631
>>1789628Just pretend I posted gold
No.1789640
I saw some fantasy world-building thing where orcs or something were using teeth as an expiratible currency. The tooth would rot over time, so hording it wasn't viable.
No.1789647
>>1789640Damn not even orcpill can save you from money value
No.1789654
>>1789640>the tooth would rot over timeWhat kind of teeth rot? Do ears or something if you want to collect body parts that will rot away. The teeth make sense as a trade commodity but they don't really rot so it would make more sense for those to be controlled by inflation as the supply pretty much just keeps growing. Teeth are also relatively non-fungible since they vary between individuals. Orcs in particular have big tusks usually so it makes more sense for that to be considered a prized possession, collecting the remains of some significant individuals or either as a religious/ritual significance for the same reason.
No.1789687
Do you think people literally just keep a pile of cash in their basement? People who hoard money do so by buying expensive things (land, companies, real estate, etc). Even when you keep your money in a bank, they go and 'invest' it while its sitting around
How exactly would you 'expire' that?
No.1789692
>>1789525>The credit system was invented to get around this[citation needed]
Credit is older than money, older than everything else. Some of the oldest writing we know of is just documenting credit
No.1789710
>>1789640that is warhammer 40k i think.
No.1789835
>>1789692ancient "money of account," temple ledgers, cuneiform records, etc. served a different purpose than the modern credit system. namely, it was there to take care of situations where commodities had to be traded in large quantities over a long period of time. The fishers give the farmers 3000 shekels of fish over the course of the year, as they catch them, so they get eaten on time and don't go bad, and then the farmers give the fishers 3000 shekels of threshed grain all at once during the harvesting season, and a lot of it goes into a store house and won't get eaten right away, because it doesn't go bad the way fish does, so the fishers and the farmers get the local temple of Ba'al or whatever to make a cuneiform ledger of their transaction, and keep it, so that both parties can keep track over a long period of time who owes who.
No.1789855
>>1789525this seems non-materialist. the bourgeoisie's wealth comes from the MoP. so the money doesn't really matter, you need to make titles to all property have an expiration date
No.1789862
>>1789855>you need to make titles to all property have an expiration dateOr just have it owned by the government or collectively from the start that way no expropriation is necessary
No.1790005
>>1789568If labor vouchers are redundant because labor is allocated directly to our needs/wants, in a way to not need them as incentives to go to certain sectors. If that's the case what is used as a means of compensating labor in total to you?
>>1789724I haven't consumed grass since the late Mesozoic Era, you'll have to forgive me.
No.1790008
>>1789525This idea was popularized by Silvio Gesell a hundred years ago, Irving Fisher shilled for it in the anglophone world, and Keynes gave a nod to Gesell as well.
>>1789835>ancient "money of account," temple ledgers, cuneiform records, etc. served a different purpose than the modern credit system.No.
No.1790015
>>1789855>you need to make titles to all property have an expiration dateland ownership expires after 70 years in china
No.1790027
every once in a while someone pulls out silvio gesell's.
money is just a placeholder for commodities ffs, if money automatically expires capitalists simply hoard other commodities
No.1790057
>>1790005To begin with, "labor" as a concept implies that it will be consumed in the future, i.e. it's used up usefully. That's the precondition of any work to be counted as labor (sorry for my esl)
In other words, you are asking a question of how would "useful work that people will find useful and use it" will get rewarded. Answer might surprise you - people will produce what they need
No.1791128
Porky will just invest in the stockmarket instead of hoarding cash
No.1791303
>>1789525NO! I will never allow this.
I rather work for free than have my money expire.
And you wonder why average people cringe at communism.
No.1796015
>>1791303why are you here as if your ideology hasnt been dead since 1929
No.1796025
>>1789525Money having an expiration date would just lead to more rampant overconsumption, we need socialism not 'reformed capitalism'
No.1796206
>>1789525making fun of this would waste an opportunity to explain how the debt system works and that we can't use "one easy trick" like this or UBI. even bringing back debt jubilees wouldn't be enough. we need full communism bb
No.1796209
>>1789654>What kind of teeth rot?Yours do.
gotem
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