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File: 1710125660977.png (423.38 KB, 500x500, Marx Haz Al-Din x.png)

 No.1790978[Last 50 Posts]

https://twitter.com/InfraHaz/status/1759417512591003667

It's very strange how self-proclaimed 'Marxists' on social media are hostile to emerging AI technologies.

This is because one of the most important details which set Marx apart from his socialist contemporaries was both his INSISTENCE on the irreversibility of advances in the productive forces, and the view that they, without exception, hastened transition into socialism.

All Marxists should be familiar with the famous passage:

"At a certain stage of development, the material productive forces of society come into conflict with the existing relations of production or – this merely expresses the same thing in legal terms – with the property relations within the framework of which they have operated hitherto." (Preface to the Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy)

Is this not exactly what is happening with AI? AI is disturbing relations based on 'intellectual property,' which are the main source of income for 'professional artists.' The facts are irrefutable: These parasites who are attacking AI are reactionaries in the most literal and inarguably traditional sense of the word.

Some argue that AI 'steals the labor' of artists. Aside from the fact that this is a ridiculous use of the word 'labor,' it attempts to hijack quasi-Marxist terminology in a way completely antithetical to everything Marxism is about.

Marxism regards challenging the property question as fundamental to Communism. To quote the Communist Manifesto:

"In all these movements, they [Communists] bring to the front, as the leading question in each, the property question, no matter what its degree of development at the time." (Communist Manifesto, Ch. 4)

The notion that Marxist language can rightly be employed to defend 'Intellectual Property' is absurd just on that basis. But worse, Marx himself was an explicit opponent of intellectual property.

In the Grundrisse, Marx regards the shared knowledge, ideas, and by logical conclusion, artistic products as belonging to what he called the General Intellect (Grundrisse, Notebook 7), which is inherently social.

The notion that an individual can turn a part of the general intellect into their own property just because they expended effort to communicate or discover it, is completely opposed to Marx's view.

Why? Because for Marx, all of society participates in this process, as every individual takes for granted the wealth of knowledge, abundance, and precedent created by others before ever creating something unique.

The idea that someone has the right to an arrangement of pixels on the computer screen, is akin to the idea that you can turn language itself into a form of property, and that by using words we obviously didn't invent ourselves, we are 'stealing' others 'labor.'

Hijacking the language of Marxism in order to defend what is the most ridiculous institution of property created by capitalism yet, by comparing the free proliferation of ideas, software, and visual media to 'exploiting the labor' of 'intellectual workers' is a complete mockery of the Marxist outlook.

Violating someone's 'intellectual property' rights is no more akin to 'exploiting their labor,' then expropriating the property of the capitalist class itself.

In fact, Intellectual Property is even more illegitimate than capitalist property. It is a parasitic, rentier-based form of property, which, in contrast to capitalist industry, does not even produce any material wealth.

As a matter of fact, the first defense of the institution of private property was based on the view, even before classical political economy, that private property is the objective product of human labor, and that questioning it as an institution is akin to calling for the theft of others' labor.

Some may protest, and decry the 'loss of employment' by 'thousands' of 'artists' as a result of AI.

But Marx was no stranger to how the mechanization brought by the Industrial revolution devastated many different ways of life and classes within society, a force which helped drive many layers of society into the proletarian class. Anyone familiar with the Communist Manifesto is familiar with the following passage:

"All fixed, fast-frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they can ossify. All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind." (Communist Manifesto, Ch. 1)

This process happened on a much larger scale, with far more ruthlessness and ferocity, than anything we could now possibly witness with the rise of AI.

This did not stop Marx from recognizing that it was an objectively necessary historical development. It is not about personal feelings or opinion. To Marx, industrial modernity was irreversible and unavoidable.

And yet, we see a huge outcry over how aspirational 'digital artists,' hollywood writers, and other 'creative' professionals will become unemployed as a result of new technologies.

Keep in mind that leftists barely raised their voices over the decades long automation which destroyed the jobs and livelihoods of tens of millions of industrial workers.

Keep in mind, Pan-leftists constantly cheer on the breakup of small-businesses and small farms, lauding the conquest by monopoly capital as 'progressive' and even using Marxist verbiage to justify this view.

They are somehow ruthless technological and social accelerationists when it comes to small farmers crushed under debt, but become the most sentimental, romantic reactionaries when it comes to 'digital artists.'

Why do they consider 'creative' professionals to have greater moral worth than ordinary people? It's simple: Because many are themselves from this background.

It's very strange how this shamelessly self-serving 'moral outcry' is justified in the language of 'Marxism,' because the Marxist outlook is that of a completely impersonal science of class struggle, which leaves no room for warping reality so that it conforms to ones own feelings.

Some claim that while AI is not inherently 'bad', its present realization will accentuate all the worst aspects of capitalism, therefore, it should be opposed.

This opinion is completely incompatible with Marxism.

Marx and Engels were unambiguous about how, yes, under capitalism, advances in the productive forces are what lay the foundation for ushering in the transition into a qualitatively new era of history, which they identified as communism.

This is because advances in the productive forces centralize, concentrate, and socialize the total productive powers of society, in a way they regarded as an inadvertent result of capitalist accumulation itself. To quote Engels himself:

"Since steam, machinery, and the making of machines by machinery transformed the older manufacture into modern industry, the productive forces evolved under the guidance of the bourgeoisie developed with a rapidity and in a degree unheard of before. But just as the older manufacture, in its time, and handicraft, becoming more developed under its influence, had come into- collision with the feudal trammels of the guilds, so now modern industry, in its more complete development, comes into collision with the bounds within which the capitalistic mode of production holds it confined. The new productive forces have already outgrown the capitalistic mode of using them." (Anti-Dühring)

You may try and argue Marx and Engels were wrong. But if they were wrong, their entire view of capitalism and socialism was also wrong.

This view was not based in feelings, or some narrow moral criticism. It was based in what they regarded as an impersonal scientific outlook.

The notion that AI should be opposed because it will damage the livelihoods of 'workers' is also nonsense. Even if we were to accept the ridiculous view that the 'creative' parasites are 'workers' in any meaningful sense (whose income is IP and rent-based, producing no material surplus out of which capital can valorize itself from scratch), this view is still inarguably reactionary.

It seeks to preserve, against the tide of advancing history itself, antiquated relationships of production, imposing fetters on the development of the productive forces in the name of 'protecting' certain professions. How very charitable! Only, it is reactionary garbage, what Marx called 'bourgeois socialism.'

It's also ironic that social liberals, who demand respect for the diversity of different individual tastes, fashions, sexual orientations, gender identities, etc., simultaneously believe we are immoral scumbags for both consuming and making use of products made with AI technologies.

 No.1790979

>>1790978
No one is forcing these social liberals to consume AI art or make use of AI in their own art.

They claim that AI art is 'bad' and that it will lead to 'mass-produced garbage' becoming normalized in media.

Well, that's just like, your opinion, isn't it, Reddit?

I think most normal people, rather than mentally ill people on social media, have reached a clear consensus that there has been a sharp decline in the quality of movies, TV, and popular art in general.

But 'professional artists,' including the mediocre scumbags who are put in positions of power in monopoly media institutions based purely on corporate HR dictatorships, believe that we should all be forced to keep consuming their garbage forever, and that all technology which challenges their monopoly should be banned.

That is really what is at stake in this conflict all-together: What we have all taken for granted, for many decades, as the all-powerful monopoly on mass media controlled by the ruling class.

While Pan-Leftists like to claim that AI will be rolled out to 'increase the profits' of corporations by cutting 'labor' (lol) costs, they fail to understand that the 'professional artists' hired by corporations are not even mainly hired on the basis of profit, ratings, or popularity whatsoever.

This is because mass-media corporations have a monopoly. They don't need to care about 'making profit' when it comes to decisions about who they hire: This is why HR departments have grown so powerful.

The 'layoff' of Hollywood writers only came after YEARS of declining profits by mass media, which reached a point so extreme that it became intolerable, even from the perspective of PRESERVING these institutions. Not 'expanding' them.

The truth is, for the most part, corporations can and have focused on just being 'ethical' and 'inclusive' even if it's unpopular among audiences. How many of us have the technology needed to make a blockbuster Hollywood movie? Who can possibly threaten that monopoly?

Well, we are increasingly close to having that technology: Through the power of AI, which puts the most advanced tools for the creation of visual media directly in the hands of ordinary people.

Gone will be the days of requiring budgets in the hundreds of millions to produce massive blockbusters that can rival the latest Hollywood slop in terms of production value.

The political implications are even more important: Now, dissident political movements will have the ability to make the most state of of the art agitprop, media, campaign ads, and more. This is obviously sending the Security State into a huge panic.

Who benefits from banning freely accessible AI technology? Aside from the parasitic dregs of 'creative workers,' the ruling imperialist hegemony and its mass media corporations do.

Social media was the first major blow to establishment media. AI is going to bring this to a scale not even presently imaginable.

One of the ways power has been expressed in the age of mass media is the monopoly on visual media technology. Advanced special effects, production value, and film quality has long been a sign of elite consensus: It has long exclusively represented the consciousness of those in power.

No longer.

Some claim that AI has terrifying implications as far as the expansion of the powers of the security state are concerned. The truth is that Machine learning algorithms have already long been used by the security state against us.

The difference we are now seeing is that these technologies are beginning to freely proliferate, so that non-state actors can also make use of them.

There also appears to be confusion about the very nature of AI technology itself: People mistakenly believe that it takes the human element out of the production of art and culture.

This is the result of pure ignorance.

Artificial Intelligence is not an 'artificial consciousness.' It is completely meaningless outside the context of socially aggregated patterns, tendencies, trends, and phenomena produced by human beings.

AI has no history, culture, discourse, or society. It is just an unprecedented way in which individuals can interface with the total social reality produced by human beings.

AI-art technologies typically attach prompts to visual phenomena already associated with those prompts in the social aggregate.

It appears to be a 'robot Mind' because rather than an individual 'creating' the desired result, the individual curates, and exercises discretionary authority over results aggregated by what has already been socially produced.

Those who hate AI, hate humanity itself. They hate the possibility that all the wealth of what mankind has produced, can be aggregated in a way that is compatible with the humanity of individuals.

Hating AI is fundamentally misanthropic.

 No.1790980

>>1790979
AI proves the inadvertent relationship between words, thoughts and images. No one has direct control over the result, but they have discretionary power to curate according to their taste.

What many ignore is that his holds true even for 'non-AI' produced art. The reason it takes years to master drawing, painting, or even 'digital art' is because there is absolutely no direct relationship between our thoughts and how they are expressed whatsoever.

Artists do not simply 'realize' their imagination directly. Artists have to master techniques which, like AI, only inadvertently produce desired results. In creating a working relationship between these techniques and ones discretionary power or taste, they eventually master the ability to produce intended results.

There is nothing about this that is more 'human' than how AI works. The difference is that rather than needing to spend years mastering techniques, the computer does it for us. What's the big deal?

You want to be a sentimental romantic about how 'it's just not the same' because we aren't doing it the old way? Then please, go back to cave painting. All human history has corresponded to the simplification of artistic methods and techniques. Go cry about it.

The mass production of art in the industrial age and the panic it has induced in 'high art' society is old news. Walter Benjamin wrote about it in 1935. The Dadaists threw a tantrum about it a decade earlier.

What is funny today is how mentally Furry digital artists have adopted such a pretension that they identify themselves with some 'high art' panicking about the 'vulgarisation' of 'mass produced and commodified art.'

Because of course, Furry porn is definitely the result of aristocratic, high-taste and high-society art, and totally unaffected by mass media and consumerism. This is nothing but mental illness and a farcical mockery of the history of art itself.

No, we are not in danger of the 'vulgarisation' and 'mass-commercialization' of art. That ship passed a long time ago. Maybe if you spent more time learning about history than pretending to be an elite artist, you would realize how mediocre and worthless your 'art' is.

The only dignified significance your cliche 'art' might ever possibly have, is contribute to the diversity of data Machine Learning algorithms may train on, in order that people with better taste might be able to produce something better.

This is why the argument that AI art is 'theft' is so stupid. If it's theft, why do we need AI to train on your garbage in the first place to turn it into something else? Because your art does not satisfy the full range of aesthetic possibilities and tastes. And guess what, there is nothing wrong with that.

Anti-AI 'artists' do not produce art, but the phenomenalization of mental illness on a mass scale. Moreover it is not even original.

There is no such thing as a wholly unique imagination. It draws from and is inspired by the wealth of what has already been created. 'Copying' others thoughts, ideas, and works at least to some extent is unavoidable.

An 'individual' 'digital artist' draws from past precedent just as much as AI does. All arguments about intellectual property are bankrupt: Why is it 'stealing' to feed someone's work into a ML algorithm, but not to feed it into your own imagination?

Why should you have to replicate the exact same techniques as an artist you are inspired by? Just to suffer for no reason?

Artists should use these techniques because they enjoy using them, or believe they are necessary. Why prevent others from using simpler ones?

Is there a single rational argument for why this is?

 No.1790981

File: 1710125784978.jpg (77.91 KB, 643x820, Whoa.jpg)

>Haz

 No.1790982

>>1790980
But, some argue, AI will destroy individual artistic techniques. Society will just infinitely recycle content to the point where nothing new will be made.

First of all the recycling is already happening before AI.

Second of all, it's wrong, because AI enables infinite permutations.

Thirdly, it's even more wrong. The rise of digital art did not outmode drawing or painting. Machines did not outmode sculpting. Artists continue to make use of these mediums, and will do so long into the future.

AI does not 'destroy' art. It just filters out valueless and talentless 'artists.'

No 'artist' is entitled to anyone's money. Kids in Africa have to mine rare Earth minerals so these 'digital artists' have computers in the first place. Why should we feel bad for 'artists?'

What gives 'artists' the right to have such a comfy job, rather than cleaning toilets? Why do they feel so entitled it, even if society doesn't want what they are 'making?'

All digital artists who don't want their work to be fed into ML algorithms should just quit, then. Worthy artists, who don't mind contributing to the General Intellect of mankind, will take their place.

The only justifiable concern about AI is the possibility of its use for purposes of fraud, libel and defamation.

But civilization already has a great precedent of rendering defamation and impersonation actionable offenses which the aggrieved can petition to courts of justice.

What will probably happen is the end of anonymity and the mandatory adoption of spoof-resistant blockchain-based signatures in order to verify ones unique identity.

In this way, anyone spreading defamation (including AI based pornography) will, by signing libel with their own absolutely unique cryptographic signature, be wholly accountable for it in courts of law, thereby discouraging it.

Common law systems already take into account the nuances of these situations, so fears of a 'slippery slope' between free speech and defamation are not going to be new. Courts already take into consideration the nuances of this distinction today, before AI.

But the greatest danger of AI also happens to be its greatest benefit to humanity: It has the power to teach society to respect images less, and value critical thinking more.

The truth is, images are already being used to lie about reality on a mass scale, and have been for a long time.

Even without AI, the amount of bad faith and misrepresentation people are subjected to online has really reached its worst limit. Technology shouldn't be blamed for this problem, the rotting and cannibalistic nature of capitalist 'civilization' should.

People, events, and reality is already being lied about on a mass scale.

The difference is that critical thinking skills haven't caught up. When images become unreliable on a mass scale, society will probably 'regress' to reading as the most reliable source of information.

This is a net benefit for society as a whole.

The unreliability of images is likely to force people to spend time reading and synthesizing information critically if they want get a well-rounded view of reality.

Finally, AI hastens the transition into Communism. By 'valorizing' patterns out of the chaos of the world market, the productive forces become socialized to an extent and degree never thought possible before.

Information, rather than profit, becomes the ultimate driving force of production. The inadvertently social nature of the relations of production, enmeshed in the chaotic signals of the market, become impossible to avoid recognizing.

The possibility of real economic planning on scales never before thought possible; and on a basis in the interest of the whole society, ceases to be a dream, but becomes a reality.

Because the 'interest of the whole society' ceases to be based on the 'expert opinion' of some central authority. It can be derived objectively, through the power of Artificial Intelligence.

There is no dichotomy between AI and mankind. This is a silly ideological illusion which is the result of the dying vestiges of capitalism.

If we define 'artifice' by 'man-made,' it is Communism itself which is the ultimate reconciliation between Artificial and natural Intelligence, combining the conscious will of human authority with the inadvertent, unconscious, and social realities of the people intelligible only at the aggregate and collective scale.

AI, like the steam engine, will undoubtedly play a role in participating in the savagery and madness of capitalist 'civilization.'

But the solution is not to blame technology. The solution is to adopt an introspective view about the nature of our civilization itself.

The solution is to unleash the productive forces of technology, and destroy the outmoded vestiges of the past, such as the financial capitalist cartels and banking institutions which are holding back progress.

The parasitic monopoly-cartels must be completely smashed. Only the anti-monopoly movement of the WORKING CLASS can, in tandem with the acceleration of AI technology, usher in a new era of human prosperity an development.

The possibilities opened up by AI technologies are nearly limitless. They should be use to accelerate the destruction of our outdated system all-together.

Under no pretext should the power of AI be surrendered; any attempt to inhibit workers access to AI technologies must be frustrated, by force if necessary

 No.1790984

Incoming jennyposter(s) 3… 2… 1…

 No.1790999

I didn't read all of that but I completely agree.

 No.1791004

>>1790978
>Haz

Unironically kill yourself

 No.1791006

>>1790978
Words words words.

 No.1791009

>sorting algorithms
>AI

 No.1791020

>>1790978
Honestly had a hard time following it that I might think this was generated by A.I., and therefore I denounce it.

 No.1791124

Shut up tin-can
lmao

 No.1791138

>>1790978
Text is not bad and its hard to disagree with him as a Marxist.

 No.1791151

>>1790979
>Devolves into another deranged rant against artists
What's with you techfags and your fury at the idea of any human involvement in production?
You want to see dogshit corpo slop that badly?

 No.1791159

>>1791138
But he has a hairy chest and he shouts slurs which hurt my feelings therefore I will not even engage with the test not even on a basic level

 No.1791164

I'm pro AI but i don't think it will bring communism.

 No.1791165

>>1790979
>The 'layoff' of Hollywood writers only came after YEARS of declining profits by mass media, which reached a point so extreme that it became intolerable, even from the perspective of PRESERVING these institutions. Not 'expanding' them.

This debunks everything before. Even if we account for these compnies having monopolies, and caring about ethics(lol?), they are still capitalist entities. The capitalist economic system demands optimization, reduce costs, and increased "efficency". The fact that even though these companies supposedly did everything to not face this reality but still in the end had to do layoffs shows they cant escape the reality. Eventually the reality of capitalism catches up and they will be forced to adopt. (as seen by you admitting that there were YEARS OF DECLINING PROFITS)
>Well, we are increasingly close to having that technology: Through the power of AI, which puts the most advanced tools for the creation of visual media directly in the hands of ordinary people.
very bold claim to assume the average people will afford to have access to this shit.
>The political implications are even more important: Now, dissident political movements will have the ability to make the most state of of the art agitprop, media, campaign ads, and more. This is obviously sending the Security State into a huge panic.
This assumes that the ai tools will be monopolized by one dissedent politicla bloc. In reality many different political groups will have them. And most likely they will use it to target each other. Especially if langely glowies come in, and manipulate the sides to hate each other.
Like come on haz, even people of the "same" group hate each other. You hate hakim, hakim hates Agent Kochinski, Agent Kochinski hates you both.
Whats going to happen, is that these technologies will be used to sow even more internal division. Meanwhile langley sits back with a smile.
>Some claim that AI has terrifying implications as far as the expansion of the powers of the security state are concerned. The truth is that Machine learning algorithms have already long been used by the security state against us.
yeah and ai is going to make it far worse, lmao. whats your point.
>The difference we are now seeing is that these technologies are beginning to freely proliferate, so that non-state actors can also make use of them.
yeah differing non state agents who will most likely use it against each other. Like, just like theres a chance its going to be used against the state, theres a equal change its going to be used against competiting non-stage agents. Which once again, fuels internal division and conflict further.
>Artists do not simply 'realize' their imagination directly. Artists have to master techniques which, like AI, only inadvertently produce desired results. In creating a working relationship between these techniques and ones discretionary power or taste, they eventually master the ability to produce intended results. There is nothing about this that is more 'human' than how AI works. The difference is that rather than needing to spend years mastering techniques, the computer does it for us. What's the big deal?
Well its a big deal because ai takes away the human thought. Even as technology improved from caveman to digital, their still needed to be a human operator. A human operator for pratically everything. Like a digital artist still needs to think about the lines, the coloring, the shading and everything that makes up the art. They have to insert their human thought to build up to their desired result. And even their desired result often morphs during that build up. Morphs in response to the actions involved in the art creation process.
All automation has done from caveman to digital is that it removed the difficults getting the art tools. It removed the difficulties of having access to art tools. Or it made it easier to create lines or fill up coloring or shading, etc ….but you are still creating lines, filling up coloring or shading and etc
What ai does is that it completely removes that process. Sure the ai operator might have a vague outline of what they want to produce, but for the most part its just that. They depend on the machine to do the actual art process while they sit back and observe the final result. There is no real thought, imagination or etc involved by the prompter except for maybe the very vague outline. And even then the ai often goes against what the prompter intended with the outline, except for the very general desire.

Its a process identical to commisioning art. And well, we dont exactly call art commisionars, artists do we? no we dont.

 No.1791166

>>1791165
>There also appears to be confusion about the very nature of AI technology itself: People mistakenly believe that it takes the human element out of the production of art and culture.
The reason why we create art is not only the expression of ideas in our head, but also the production side too. Talk to artists and you will see that a decent chunk values the producing process, as much as the creation of it. Ai automates that production side of "humanity"
And while its true that ai has no history. And ai has to initally depend on human art. Which means its gathering the collective humanity, of imagination and etc to produce it. Well that wont last forever.
Eventually the number of ai created arts will start outnumbering the human ones. And once that happens, ai will depend on ai produced stuff to create art. Which means eventually they will create new techniques, styles and etc not from human art but ai art. At that point human knowledge will be increasingly overtaken by ai produced knowledge.
Of course, in its current state, its mindless, so they might not "genuinely" create stuff. But this assumes the ai will remain that state. Eventually perhaps way way later, ai will improve itself. Improve itself to the point it can think.
And once that happens ai will "genuinely" start producing stuff. And once that process starts rolling well something funny happens. Aka The collective human knowledge of art that ai intitially was reliant on will be replaced by the collective knowledge of ai created art. Since ai will produce so much that human art will be overwhelmed or a distant memory. It will be devalued, or nothing compared to ai art.


>exercises discretionary authority over results aggregated by what has already been socially produced.

True, but this assumes humans will not be affected by it. What we like and what we dislike, is somewhat influenced by our surroundings. And in this ai future, it will be ai generated content that will surround us. It will be ai that affects us during our early years. During our teenage years. During our adult years.
The thing is human viewers themselves are not isolated subjects. They are affected by their surroundings. And thus ai can impact our desires. The human viewer wont be not tainted by ai but shaped by it.
And thats not the only thing, because ai replaces another expression of "humanity", which is thought. Why need to think about what you want to watch? WHy need to plan about what you see? Artifical intelligence, if it does get advanced in the long term, can not only appeal your demands, but also predict future ones. We already have the barebones of this with algorithims that can predict your future wants and needs. Or companies that do the sme thing. Like why have the need for human individual "discretionary authority" and etc, when ai can think and plan for you?
And they dont need to think and plan everything for you. They can just do the majority of it. Like you typing in some random vague outline, bartely putting any thought into it. And then the ai pratically produces everything, since you barely put any thought into it. Which pretty much automates the thing that makes human art, human art. The thought, the MIND.

 No.1791219

File: 1710164754626.jpg (11.74 KB, 267x400, 11083090.jpg)

Oh look at that…It's another "worker not real worker if wömän with blue hair that dont lift heavy thing in factory" thread. Unironically kill yourself haz

 No.1791225

File: 1710165233782.png (3.1 MB, 3000x3000, Jenny_Painting.png)

rather than reading all that shit from someone with no CS degree (as far as I know), I'm just going post a picture of XJ-9 painting

 No.1791292

Did haz actually come back ?

 No.1791306

>Haz
Stopped reading there

 No.1791315

File: 1710171871981.png (861.86 KB, 1280x720, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.1791338

>>1790979
>Now, dissident political movements will have the ability to make the most state of of the art agitprop, media, campaign ads, and more … Some claim that AI has terrifying implications as far as the expansion of the powers of the security state are concerned. The truth is that Machine learning algorithms have already long been used by the security state against us.
I decided to focus in on this part, but I imagine it'd be both and dialectical in that way like with any new weapon which changes the character of war, and there's an arms race where states invest a lot in the new weapons to give themselves an advantage, which also creates opportunities for insurgent forces to wage asymmetric warfare with the weapon in ways that wasn't possible before. That said, the security state is spending a lot of money on A.I. and seems like they're focused on getting as much advantage out of it as possible.

 No.1791347

oh, hi haz.

 No.1791378

>hostile to emerging AI technologies
Stopped reading. There are no emerging AI technologies. Normies discover Markov chains for the first time, is not an AI revolution.
Tech companies have mined the shit out of Bell labs 20th century state sponsored innovation, and Taiwanese R&D, and now they have nothing in the chamber. I'd be amazed if they have a single hype cycle left after this one.

>NASDAQ cumpstered and dumpstered

 No.1791439

hello haz

 No.1791460

>>1791151
some people seem to have a weird hatred for artists, recently saw some celebrating that “twitter artists” are going to go out of work. All of this is very unfortunate because art is part of the human experience, we all desire to create art in some way, and yet there are people who want to remove the human part from the art, because they hate the human, all they desire is an image to look at.

 No.1791482

For anyone mildly interested in this but wants tldr
Very basic Marxist point about technology good and do the production goodwr than before mixed with blue hair artist bad and pseud level use of terminology

 No.1791511

File: 1710180155928.jpg (142.34 KB, 756x756, mango.jpg)

>Forces of production: Full automated
>Final boss (Blue haired artists): Defeated
We did it reddit!

 No.1791515

File: 1710180294610.jpg (214.72 KB, 1024x1024, aihaz1.jpg)

>HOW AI WILL BRING COMMUNISM
>Haz "report that site" Al-Din
<comes back to make a thread on that site
Why do you have hair implants? Accept that you are a balding gay.

 No.1791541

Well, now, AI might kill the internet, which could be a good thing.

>We're at the end of a vast, multi-faceted con of internet users, where ultra-rich technologists tricked their customers into building their companies for free. And while the trade once seemed fair, it's become apparent that these executives see users not as willing participants in some sort of fair exchange, but as veins of data to be exploitatively mined as many times as possible, given nothing in return other than access to a platform that may or may not work properly.


>This is, of course, the crux of Cory Doctorow's Enshittification theory, where Reddit has moved from pleasing users to pleasing its business customers to, now, pleasing shareholders at what will inevitably be the cost of the platform's quality.


>Yet what's happening to the web is far more sinister than simple greed, but the destruction of the user-generated internet, where executives think they've found a way to replace human beings making cool things with generative monstrosities trained on datasets controlled and monetized by trillion-dollar firms.


>Their ideal situation isn't one where you visit distinct websites with content created by human beings, but a return to the dark ages of the internet where most traffic ran through a series of heavily-curated portals operated by a few select companies, with results generated based on datasets that are increasingly poisoned by generative content built to fill space rather than be consumed by a customer.


[…]

>Generative AI models are trained by using massive amounts of text scraped from the internet, meaning that the consumer adoption of generative AI has brought a degree of radioactivity to its own dataset. As more internet content is created, either partially or entirely through generative AI, the models themselves will find themselves increasingly inbred, training themselves on content written by their own models which are, on some level, permanently locked in 2023, before the advent of a tool that is specifically intended to replace content created by human beings.


>LinkedIn, already a repository of empty-headed corpo-nonsense, already lets users write generate messages, profiles and job descriptions using AI, and anything you create using these generative features is immediately fed back into Azure's OpenAI models owned by its parent company Microsoft, which invested $10 billion in OpenAI in early 2023. While LinkedIn is yet to introduce fully-automated replies, Chrome extensions already exist to flood the platform with generic responses, feeding more genericisms into the mouth of Microsoft and OpenAI's models.


>Generative AI also naturally aligns with the toxic incentives created by the largest platforms. Google's algorithmic catering to the Search Engine Optimization industry naturally benefits those who can spin up large amounts of "relevant" content rather than content created by humans. While Google has claimed that their upcoming "core" update will help promote "content for people and not to rank in search engines," it’s made this promise before, and I severely doubt anything meaningfully changes. After all, Google makes up more than 85% of all search traffic and pays Apple billions a year to make Google search the default on Apple devices.


>And because these platforms were built to reward scale and volume far more often than quality, AI naturally rewards those who can find the spammiest ways to manipulate the algorithm. 404 Media reports that spammers are making thousands of dollars from TikTok's creator program by making "faceless reels" where AI-generated voices talk over spliced-together videos ripped from YouTube, and a cottage industry of automation gurus are cashing in by helping others flood Facebook, TikTok and Instagram with low-effort videos that are irresistible to algorithms.


>Amazon's Kindle eBook platform has been flooded with AI-generated content that briefly dominated bestseller lists, forcing Amazon to limit authors to publishing three books a day. This hasn't stopped spammers from publishing awkward rewrites and summaries of other people's books, and because Amazon's policies don't outright ban AI-generated content, ChatGPT has become an inoperable cancer on the body of the publishing industry.


>"Handmade" goods store Etsy has its own AI problem, with The Atlantic reporting last year that the platform was now pumped full of AI-generated art, t-shirts and mugs that, in turn, use ChatGPT to optimize listings to rank highly in Google search. As a profitable public company, Etsy has little incentive to change things, even if the artisanal products on the platform are being crowded out by generative art pasted on drop-shipped shirts. eBay, on the other hand, is leaning into the spam, offering tools to generate entire listings based on a single image using generative AI.


>The Wall Street Journal reported last year that magazines are now inundated with AI-generated pitches for articles, and renowned sci-fi publisher Clarkesworld was forced to close submissions after receiving an overwhelming amount of AI-generated stories. Help A Reporter Out used to be a way for journalists to find potential sources and quotes, except requests are now met with a deluge of AI-generated spam.


>These stories are, of course, all manifestations of a singular problem: that generative artificial intelligence is poison for an internet dependent on algorithms.


>There are simply too many users, too many websites and too many content providers to manually organize and curate the contents of the internet, making algorithms necessary for platforms to provide a service. Generative AI is a perfect tool for soullessly churning out content to match a particular set of instructions — such as those that an algorithm follows — and while an algorithm can theoretically be tuned to evaluate content as "human," so can scaled content be tweaked to make it seem more human.

https://www.wheresyoured.at/are-we-watching-the-internet-die/

 No.1791547

>>1791541
Why did they make Claude hot? The robot's wearing a suit.

 No.1791552

>>1790978
watch this video to see an AI bringing communism

 No.1791603

I tried to warn you about automation taking people’s jobs. You laughed back then, now I laugh at you

 No.1791663

posting haz should be a banable offense

 No.1791681

>>1790978
>haz
Moron
>muh Twitter leftists
lmao
>yet another AI thread
Who fucking cares about AI Jesus fuck!

 No.1791689

>>1790978
Lmao
What you say at the start is correct, but then you say shit like
>Anti-AI 'artists' do not produce art, but the phenomenalization of mental illness on a mass scale. Moreover it is not even original.
>Russia is still fighting for communism
>There are only two holes


I will give you the explanation for why online leftists are against AI for free. Make sure to bring it up with Caleb, he will love it.

A lot of the terminally online western "leftists" - you know and love the sort - are actually a petty bourgeois "movement", analogous to Russian liberals, formerly Navalny supporters.

Petty bourgeois are constantly created in any capitalist economy. These people often lead lives much worse than a big portion of workers - peasants are petty bourgeois, many "small owners" make less than they would as workers, and online artists are famously poor. They have plenty of reasons to hate the society they live in, but they don't have proletarian consciousness - their lives are still reliant on property and selling their product directly. They heckin love markets and anarchy of production because that's their lifeline.
Workers also interact with petty bourgeois and vice versa, so the separation between people with different consciousness isn't as simple as class.

This problem is resolved very easily in non-western petty bourgeois: they can just say that it's all so much better in the west, that they can just accept western dominance, bend over and take all the juicy IMF loans up their ass and it will be awesome guys :)))).

Russian liberals are taking this to tragicomedic heights right now, advocating their own genocide. This has happened before: Armia Krajowa and many other bourgeois organisations chose to side with Nazis and against the USSR on many occasions while their people were being exterminated by millions. Kulaks were the best hope of the Nazis in the USSR, too.

Western petty bourgeois have a bit of a problem, however. They ARE in the west, and they personally know that their class is still being ravaged by capital 24/7. For them, siding with western establishment liberals is problematic. So they have to cope with libertarianism, trump, outright fascism, and so on. Some of them end up as "leftists" because they at least have the critical thinking to see that the system they live in is capitalism working as intended. Or they're just edgy like you, Haz, because you don't even have the brains to understand that.

Unfortunately, these "leftists" still have the rest of their petty bourgeois consciousness, and most will never overcome it.

They value anarchy of production and "freedom" that comes from it like their own body, their whole lives are reliant on it. Which is why they can't accept planned economy and have to cope with anarchism, syndicalism, council communism, libertarian socialism and all these other memes.

They value "pluralism" cope because the ruling parties that are supposed to represent all owners actually only represent the big boys, so the idea of a party representing a class is alien to them.

They hate authority, and for good reason: the capitalist state is a tool of the haute bourgeoisie, which constantly muscles petite bourgeois out of markets, bankrupts them, destroys the conditions that made their businesss possible. A socialist state systematically eliminates them, too.

They also love the bourgeois state when it's used to protect them, to create a society where they can thrive, supposedly. Which is why many people are both libertarian and fascist, there is no contradiction. This is also why online "leftists" heckin love liberal leaders such as Biden and want him to kill chinlet trumpists or other enemies despite the fact that this is actually terrible for any prospect of a socialist revolution in their country.

Overall, they are the perfect natural way to disrupt communist movements, no glow needed. But it helps that people like you exist, too. They successfully disrupted proletarian revolutions everywhere but Russia, and they weren't far off there, either. Only the Bolshevik party could ensure the socialist victory there, and even then, your handlers surely understand that it didn't end well, even if you don't. They are laughing at you, by the way.

Here's a task for you: the widely acclaimed speaker, writer, journalist, and political analyst Caleb Maupin should say this on TV. RT would be the best, but other channels are also acceptable.

 No.1791724

>>1791689
One of the main criticisms of online AI is that it's corporate owned and built by the plundering of data on the now largely enclosed internet
Or do you think the majority of people that don't want to see movies further devolve into nostalgia slop shat out by computers over anything original made by humans is a bourgeois thing?
Do you want to see a feature length film by generative ai?

 No.1801688

>>1791663
>posting haz should be a banable offense

I disagree.

 No.1801693

File: 1711081299765.jfif (589.55 KB, 2480x3508, Fjt5tfxWQAEQCzC.jfif)

tl;dr version: the op fears pencils and doesn't value his own human worth

case in point, an AI could have easily made this post, while providing all the insightful 'value' of his opinion whilst OP could have offed himself and saved us all the oxygen if he wanted to be faithful to his own point here

you cant simp for ai while simultaneously maintaining that you a worthless imperfect meat sack deserve to continue living and not be replaced by it

 No.1801694

>>1791724
Most nostalgia slop is already made without AI.

Also, AI generative content really isnt as automative as you think.

 No.1801711

>>1801693
Doing that in a video game would be a violation of the rules you agree to to play it competitively. What rule do AI artists break to "cheat" artists?

 No.1801722

>>1801711
>b-bu-but it's a vi-violation of the rulez gaiz!!

except it's not, someone using an AI to play the game that they loaded up is playing it competitively, I mean an AI 'learns' to play the game just like a real hyuman player, rite? if you keep losing to it just play better ig

 No.1801723

>>1801693
anarchists spend 5 seconds without being moralist faggots challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

 No.1801724

>>1801722
games have an explicit rule against bots you dumb fuck

 No.1801725

>>1790978
>Some argue that AI 'steals the labor' of artists. Aside from the fact that this is a ridiculous use of the word 'labor,' it attempts to hijack quasi-Marxist terminology in a way completely antithetical to everything Marxism is about.
you jest but youre right, not even marx argued that the bourgeois "stole" labor

 No.1801726

>>1791681
>Who fucking cares about AI Jesus fuck!
this, if you think this is a big issue you follow too many annoying artists on twitter LOL

 No.1801727

>>1801724
except it's not a bot, it's a regular player doing the same inputs using the same device drivers as any human player would, and it's instanced in another machine so you can't detect any difference

it's literally a skill issue if you can't beat it, crying 'but the rulez!' doesn't matter just because you're trash at the game

 No.1801729

>>1801727
disregarding that analogies are for retards who cant make actual arguments, nobody in the games community would agree with your stupid contrived definition lol

 No.1801733

>>1801729
yes because gamers are retards

saying something that gamers fail to comprehend is expected when it requires a statistically higher intelligence than the quintile you currently occupy

 No.1801761

>>1790979
> Aside from the parasitic dregs of 'creative workers,'
Haz, you are a live streamer

 No.1801762

>>1801761
Well he's not creative

 No.1801778

>>1801723
>people strive to continue existing and this ideology is incompatible with that goal
>M-MORALIST!!!!!
marxists stop being an apathetic peanut gallery challenge (impossible)

 No.1801782

write me a marxist defense of AI in the form of an imageboard post

 No.1801783

Logically, all capitalists would exterminate all Marxists wouldn't hey?

 No.1801784

>>1801783
But most Marxists would be more concernered with following the capitalist laws or whatever so they wouldn't seem like "glowies' so they'd just get murdered. How do the Marxists win again?

 No.1801788

>>1801784
wait for all workers to magically gain class consciousness all at once and immediately rise up and overthrow the system

 No.1801790

>>1801693
why would you train a bot with "data from the top 1000 players" when an aimbot/reactive agent is not only trivial to implement, but immeasurably better than any human due to instant reaction times

 No.1801791

File: 1711091591606.png (1.05 MB, 1125x962, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1801788
I think that's one of the funniest ideas of Marxism. All proles agree with the concept that their boss gets all the profit while they get the peanuts. The question is how are you going to solve this scenario which no communist society has ever proven.

 No.1801792

>>1801791
I dunno if I made that clear enough, but as a prole, I guaruntee you, every prole is aware of their status as a prole and that of their bosses and etc. Their is no class consciousness to be raised. Maybe a tangible solution is what Marxists should be working on vs raising-class-consciousness.

 No.1801793

>>1801722
the reason bots are banned is because competitive play wouldn't have any entertainment value, both as a player and as a viewer, if it was a bunch of bots playing automated matches: it would cease to be a game in any meaningful sense. how's that even related to generative AI.

 No.1801797

>>1801792
do you consider solutions that require revolution intangible

 No.1801800

>>1801791
>>1801792
I think that's hilarious as shit, that Marxists think that telling wagies that your boss and employers do less work and profit more is some kind of insight. Get fuckt. That's why your ideology has gained no traction in 200 years.

 No.1801803

>>1801793
>>1801722
on that very note, automated bots matches would be, on a pragmatic sense, the same thing as a machine generating gaming footage of non-existing matches, which Sora already advertises as something it can do, so not only is the comparison retarded, they're doing it already anyway.

 No.1801804

>>1801797
Well I don't see the writings of Marx as having much relevance toward that scenario. Crime is also a generally most advantageous course of action.

 No.1801854

>>1801793
>muh entertainment value

so you're saying you value the content produced by humans more than the content of machines for some reason?

 No.1801862

>>1801854
i'll take the annoying humanist argument over the retarded moralistic one. though i must say, if art created by humans is just by nature inherently more valubale than machine-made art, then this conversation is pointeless: there's nothing to fear from AI.

 No.1801880

>>1801862

no because within capitalism the 'value' of art isn't the human part

furthermore you need a provable process to distinguish between the two

if you're promoting AI, particularly within a capitalistic framework, you are literally saying you are not worth shit and an actual automaton that simulates you in all your minutiae should replace your physical existence, that is if your existence had any purpose or value within capitalism or any other system, which it fucking doesn't because you believe some dumb shit

 No.1801888

>>1801880
>you are literally saying you are not worth shit and an actual automaton that simulates you in all your minutiae should replace your physical existence
bringing it back to the dumb gaming comparison, technology has surpassed humans in every competittive sport imaginable, why AREN'T we witnessing computer chess players compete with one another, when we live in an era when even cellphones can outmatch chess grandmasters using an open source algorithm, where's the value in such a spectacle?

 No.1801900

File: 1711096130748.mp4 (19 MB, 1280x720, lord of the rings.mp4)

>>1790978
>HOW AI WILL BRING COMMUNISM

 No.1801907

>>1801880
then again, if a computer was able to simulate every neuron and ever cell to the last minute detail, then i guess that i, indeed, would be ontologically indistinguishable from my simulated me, but that is basically unknowable, forget about a provable process to distniguish between AI and human art, this seems like a taller task lol.

 No.1801923

>>1801888
there is no value because it's a simulacrum of human existence

there is however, a lot of value in using such engines to try and cheat to gain a competitive advantage

also what you're saying isn't actually true, a lot of people like looking at chess engines play out games against each other, but that isn't the actual issue with it, no one would really care about ai if it was just the novelty of it

again the issue is presented when someone pretends to be a human, but utilizes these systems to gain that advantage

some people would probably still do this even if capitalism doesn't exist, but it would be less, in capitalism there is always an incentive to cheat and use this because you can literally be talking about money being on the line if you lose or win

the problem is that it doesn't stop there, under capitalism, AI will not just be used to replace the things humans do to replicate commodities, they will be used to replace every hobby you engage in your actual existence

if you're just going to sit here and act like all that is fine then you don't really stand where you can complain when it eventually does happen to you

 No.1801934

>>1801923
> a lot of people like looking at chess engines play out games against each other
you keep annoyingly skirting the obvious empirical truth that automated AI matches just have not replaced humans playing the actual game, not even to a slightly meaningful degree, even when computers are objectively superior chess players than any human player. Yet you insist that it will inevitably replace every creative human endeavor ever. But where, my man, is the le proofs that this is even feasible. When will these fancy regurgitators ever be anything else than fodder generators poised to poison the very well they feed themselves from with even more fodder.

 No.1801937

>>1801923
>>1801934
When will we start to witness 100m dashes being performed on electric scooters, since they are significantly faster than even Usain bolt

 No.1801945

>>1801934
>empirical
it's funny you use this word when it won't have any meaning at all online in at least ten years but probably less, it also will be nearly as dubious in real life

you won't understand the reality you live in any more, all because you and everyone else just went 'meh, ai seems fine'

 No.1802225

>>1801945
was this really your final riposte? how pathetic

 No.1802243

>>1801762
he's a camboy

 No.1802266

File: 1711124889109.jpeg (Spoiler Image, 117 KB, 1024x1024, OIG2.Iv.jpeg)

>>1801761
Hes trying to abolish his own job and his essay has many good points. Lets discuss his ideas not his character.

 No.1802304

>>1801934
Depends thats because ai and robots are quite limited. But the question is what about in the future. Currently with machines, we can recognize they are just machines. They lack the human social element which makes observing and interacting, appealing. But what if they advance enough to the point htat they re able to replicate it
That artificial intelligence has become sophisticated enough to animate and replicate everything, in a human activity. That artificial intelligence has become knowledge enough to replicate human behaviour, so to sufficently pretend to be another human. And that artificial intelligence and robots has become advanced to the point they look near identical to a human being
Now of course this might be impossible. Maybe there are limitations that prevent ai from reaching this stage. But what can be confirmed that the reason why ai hasnt replaced humans, is because ai and robots lack a human element. They lack all the socialbitiy, apperance, behaviour and etc of human beings. A crucial element thats let us enjoy observing and playing games with each other. A barrier that ai may never pass

 No.1804010

File: 1711231900914.jpg (174.84 KB, 1280x960, 1471398620316.jpg)

it’s fucking hilarious to me how long people have been theorizing about this sort of technology for years now and now that it’s actually here absolutely all you see about it are jobless artists whining about le stolen art

 No.1804024

I completely agree with you. Only liberals are complaining about AI.

 No.1804032

>>1804010
Well, people thought automation would free us from the mundane work and allow humans to do creative persuits, such as music, art and writing but now that AI is here it's exactly those domains that are being colonized by machines lol.

 No.1804039

broken clock is right twice a day, also goes for retard haz

 No.1804042

>>1804032
you can still do all that for money AND clout

 No.1804189

>>1804024
groupthinking imbecile

 No.1804190

>>1804042
>it's still technically possible to make it!
the cope of the petit-bourg small business owner

 No.1804211

>Some argue that AI 'steals the labor' of artists. Aside from the fact that this is a ridiculous use of the word 'labor,

???

 No.1805002

>>1790978
"AI" will not bring communism any more than the printing press. Pic related. Just today I saw a "4K AI documentary" on the life of the prophet Muhammad on youtube. "AI" is already serving superstitutious and reactionary ends. Communications technology is superstructure, not base. Stop confusing base for superstructure! The base is capitalist, so the superstructural elements (communications tech, culture, religion, etc.) will reflect the bourgeois base.

 No.1805005

>>1805002
(here's what I am talking about btw)

 No.1805033

File: 1711321630825.jpg (105.55 KB, 1031x1031, GJR1Jd9WAAAHoVw.jpg)

>yfw an artist comes up to you and starts defending copyright law and private property

 No.1805036

>>1805033
>wearing a shirt designed by an artist

 No.1805040

File: 1711322251053.png (7.31 MB, 2132x2132, hitlers.png)

>>1804010
>people have been theorizing about this sort of technology for years now and now that it’s actually here
it's been here for 10 years already. what the fuck are you talking about. I was generating neural network images in 2014. They've significantly improved in quality, but this was not an instantaneous appearance. There was no day where we woke up and it was "actually" here. It's been fading in for a while. The foundational theory behind how neural networks work was laid in the 50s and humans started implementing that theory once hardware caught up.

 No.1805043

>>1805036
i made it myself in ms paint actually

 No.1805067

>>1805043
sorry sweaty that makes you an artist

 No.1805070

>>1805067
noooooooooooooo *dies*

 No.1805112

File: 1711329261363.gif (28.26 KB, 500x342, zizek-ideology.gif)

>>1805033
>nooooooo you can't employ X tactically to increase or preserve the power of the proletariat! that's the tool of the enemy!
liberal virtue ethics

 No.1805144

>>1805112
Not that anon, but how the does the petite bourgeoisie owning property (intellectual or otherwise) "increase the power" of the proletariat in any way?

 No.1805148

>>1805002
Nah, machine learning is a technology that affects both the base and superstructure. To say that it's only a communications technology ignores the role it plays in industry as well - for example machine vision used by robots on an assembly line or in a warehouse.

 No.1805149

File: 1711332704914.jpg (59.81 KB, 500x468, reform.jpg)

>>1805148
bourgeois-controlled AI cannot bring communism. If AI is truly a means of production, it has to be seized by the proletariat through revolutionary action.

 No.1805150

>>1805149
I agree with that, I was just saying it can actually be a means of production depending on how it's applied.

 No.1805151

>>1805150
yeah, fair
in this post >>1805002, I put "AI" in scare quotes to distinguish it from actual AI as a means of production, and to refer specifically to what people usually mean when they say AI over these last 4 years, which is dogshit neural networks that poop out statistical approximations of human made artwork.

 No.1805156

>>1805151
Fair enough, I just tend to get slightly annoyed when the entire field of machine learning is reduced to generative AI. That said I be see LLMs being a (sort of) MoP with regard to software development were they to be *significantly* improved. They're terrible at the moment though.

 No.1805163

>>1805156
>That said I be see LLMs
Should be:
>That said, I can see LLMs


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