/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>1791196
the most fucked up shit I have ever personally witnessed in my entire life was the coverup and reprisals that followed after a nationally-endorsed DSA candidate raped someone and his chapter refused to take him back. if you've ever wondered why so many of the weird DSA twitter assholes have such a massive hate-boner for pittsburgh, now you know.

>>1791199
Actually gooning is a time honored tradition anon. Porn is the main issue

>>1797298
WTF I never heard that

>>1797301
the full story will probably never be told for the sake of privacy but that's the kind of shit that they've blown over a million bucks on "consultant fees" for

>>1792178
yeah i am agreeing generational politics are stupid and unhelpful

i think what is missed here is that it is often the fucking constantly that leads members towards leadership in organizations because:
1. intra-organizational sex-having individuals (IOSHI) spend more time around organization members and have access to a broader degree of member experiences which make them more suitable for leadership
2. IOSHI generally start from a place of having better social skills than the average far-left web form user-turned-activist
3. IOSHI have a greater stake in the organization because it is entangled with their romantic or sexual life.

When you examine ISOHI leaders in real life, they usually don't use their position to get sex until they have used sex to get their position. I personally think it is a healthy and unavoidable thing except when leaders sexually exploit prospects.

I think the problem of sexual exploitation of prospects mostly arises from unnecessarily centralized organizational structures. Obviously democratic centralism works, but there is no need to have it when the stakes are as low as they are for a western leftist organization, which is unwilling and unable to wage an actual protracted war. In this case the centralized form is vestigial and can be easily abused. In cases of actual revolutionary organizations, the problem of IOSHI exploitation is very very low, because the stakes are actually high and incompetent or self-serving leadership will lead to failure and rectification.

Fucking your comrades is usually based and good for the mental health of the parties. It reduces turnover and improves organizational cohesion and continuity. In the orgs I have been in the members with the most seniority and experience had a spouse/lover/polycule in the organization.

This is someone's master's thesis on sexual relationships and especially sexual abuse in movement and communist subcultures. It is an interesting read.

>>1793371
>Porn is the ultimate extension of the ideological state apparatus
Then I've got good news

>>1797654
>>1797655
Finally, a dialectical take on this issue. Will look into your linked study, comrade, thank you

>>1797654
>>1797655
Wow, a thoughtful response and a written study. Impressive!

>>1793397
The left is run by Jews who want to see the white population as atomised as possible so that Hitler can never happen again. Destroying the family creates weak men who will never stand for anything, assuming they don't become homos and transhumanists.

Here you can see the epitome of conservative leftism. It is afraid to imagine a new future, it is bankrupt in imagination and bereft in any semblance of bravery. The conservative "leftist" twisted the revolutionary of heroism of 20th century epochs, both communism and fascism, robbing these movements of their fundamentally utopian and radically anti-traditional energy and assigned to them sclerotic normative concepts like family values or strong men. Anything new is alien to these people; their limit of socialism is merely restoration of welfare so they can afford to ape the lifestyle of their parents.

There was a time when the left dared to dream! Now what is the left? The left consists of telling middle class people that their parasitical lifestyle build upon the slavery of cheap outsourced labour is actually good on one hand and that the lifestyle promised to them by their parents is achievable on the other hand. Yes, you can keep snorting coke with your polycule. And when you're 30 we'll give you enough loans so you can buy a house in the suburbia and marry a washed up whore so you can larp as defender of traditional morality. Environment, Capitalism, Imperialism, sho cares about all this shit? After all, we know that the highest form of Leftist praxis is to coddle up small minded middle class parvenus and isolate their lifestyle from the ravages of Capitalism. Social Democracy forever!

Currently writing an article/paper on communism and porno as I have a some friends who do things like onlyfans, burlesque and pinup modeling (think Suicide Girls from back in the day), so here's stuff on pornography, feminism, censorship, etc


I know it's reddit, but there's an actual good reply with cited sources here, seems each eastern bloc country had different standards, with USSR being the most censored, Yugoslavia being the least and East Germany being somewhere in the middle with a state-sponsored nude mag. Calls into the question the unifying idea that communism is anti-porn in a historical sense.

<https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/kd5gfu/why_did_every_communist_country_ban_porn/


>Here is one topical example of how this might happen. Some feminists object to pornography on the grounds that it harms women. Others claim that pornography may not always be harmful to women and may even sometimes be liberating and beneficial. It seems that there is genuine disagreement here. But is there? Not necessarily. For the two sides might mean different things by “pornography.” Suppose that feminists who object to pornography are defining “pornography” as sexually explicit material that subordinates women. So, pornography, for them, is that subset of sexually explicit material that in fact harms women. This definition makes it definitionally true that pornography, wherever it exists, is bad for women. Those who defend pornography, however, may be using “pornography” to mean simply sexually explicit material aimed or used primarily for sexual arousal (regardless of whether it is harmful to women). There may thus be no genuine disagreement here, for both sides might agree that sexually explicit material that harms women is objectionable. They might also agree that there is nothing objectionable about sexually explicit material that does not harm women (or anyone else). If different parties are using “pornography” in different senses they may be talking past each other, perhaps without realizing it.

>Two really substantive issues at stake in the feminist debate over pornography are 1) whether any sexually explicit material is in fact harmful to women; and, if so, what should be done about it?; and 2) whether all sexually explicit material is in fact harmful to women; and, if so, what should be done about it? (We can thus phrase two of the important issues, if we like, without mentioning “pornography” at all.)
<https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pornography-censorship/


>Since 2015, expanding research on the Moral Incongruence Model has demonstrated that self-identified addiction to pornography is highly predicted by moral and religious conflicts. Further, these internal conflicts of shame over one’s sexual desires not only predict self-identification as addicted but appear to greatly increase the degree of distress and struggles that people feel about themselves.

>Hating yourself for wanting a kind of sexuality that you were taught makes you a "bad" person understandably increases negative emotions, such as depression, stress, and anxiety, but also increases the degree to which individuals feel that their sexual desires and behaviors are out of their control.
<https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/women-who-stray/202307/homophobia-and-religiosity-drive-struggles-with-porn

>I think the overrepresentation of homosexual men in sex addiction centers is strong evidence that the diagnosis is primarily used for social control of sexuality, rather than treating any actual disease that should affect all men equally,”
<https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkg8j8/how-porn-addiction-took-hold-of-the-internet

Can't get access to these two but I skimmed them a bit, need a sci-hub key to dive further
<https://cornerstone.lib.mnsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1710&context=etds
>The Effects of Pornography on Gay, Bisexual, and Queer Men's Body Image: An Experimental Study

<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0736585315000350?via%3Dihub
>Third person effect and Internet pornography in China
Also, just a quick search of "porn made me gay no fap" gives dozens upon dozens of posts like this, which I think do echo a some of the things discussed in the articles referenced above, the last study mentions that 30% of pornography created is explicitly gay in nature, but the majority of other sources discussing ethics, censorship, etc don't talk about those things within a queer context

From a Marxist viewpoint, the idea that pornography is the main reason for the oppression of women and a driving force for the patriarchy seems a bit simplistic at best. Pornography is a relatively recent invention as a medium, really becoming a thing in the late 19th and early 20th centuries with erotic photography, yet the patriarchy is not nearly as recent. Marxists would say that capitalism is the driving force of the patriarchy.

That said, I haven't reached a conclusion as of yet.

It's also worth noting that major anti-pornography sites like Fight the New Drug and No Fap were started by Mormons
I'm just saying man, Mormons and Christian conservatives are some of the biggest benefactors and pushers of the patriarchy.
<https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J056v16n01_05
>Abstract
>Empirical research has failed to provide a clear understanding of the relationship between pornography use and sexism. Study 1 showed an inverse correlation between modern sexism and pornography use, such that participants who used pornography more frequently displayed less sexist attitudes. Study 2 found a positive correlation between pornography use and benevolent sexism, such that participants who used pornography more frequently displayed more benevolent sexism. Our studies provide insight into the largely inconclusive findings of previous research on pornography use and sexist attitudes toward women.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/socf.12506
>Abstract
>Much contemporary debate about pornography centers on its role in portraying and perpetuating gender inequality. This article compares traditional gendered attitudes between cisgender men attending the Adult Entertainment Expo (n = 294) and a random sample of male respondents from the 2016 General Social Survey (GSS), a U.S. representative survey of general attitudes and beliefs collected every two years (n = 863). Our survey borrowed questions from the GSS to measure attitudes about gender equality across four dimensions: (1) working mothers, (2) women in politics, (3) traditional gender roles in the family, and (4) affirmative action for women in the workplace. Through bivariate analyses, we found that “porn superfans” are no more sexist or misogynistic than the general U.S. public on two of the four measures (women in politics and women in the general workplace) and held more progressive gender-role attitudes than the general public on the other two measures. We conducted binary logistic regressions for those two measures to determine if the relationship remained significant when controlling for other factors. For one dimension, working mothers, it did (p < .001). Our results call into question some of the claims that porn consumption fosters de facto negative and hostile attitudes toward women.

Really need to get me a sci-hub reference so I can actually read these beyond the abstracts

<https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/not-safe-for-work-feminist-pornography-matters-sex-wars/
Some actual leftist discussion on the topic

<https://www.vice.com/en/article/jg89mb/sex-workers-describe-the-instability-and-necessity-of-onlyfans
>Sex Workers Describe the Instability—and Necessity—of OnlyFans

One thing that sparked this deep dive into the relationship between communism and sex work, particularly pornography, was a very rigid response on r/communism101, that basically said these workers are petit bourgeois and thus aren't people we as communists should be worried about organizing with, yet the workers in this article mention things like having mental illness, physical disabilities, living paycheck paycheck, finding themselves in precarious situations in order to survive

A mass line approach calls for organizing the most disenfranchised members of the class society first.

>>1805271
I don't even know what you're talking about

>>1805334
That means you are a typical leftoid

>>1805262
>>1805271
bro you are all over the place
is whoring good or bad?

>>1805275
>Really need to get me a sci-hub reference so I can actually read these beyond the abstracts
It's on libgen. The questions are bad imo, but they're probably better than nothing (I also linked another paper on the subject)…
>1. A working mother can establish just as warm and secure a relationship with her children as a mother who does not work
Rich women who don't have to work are more secure almost by definition… I get what they're going for but the third question asks more or less the same thing in a much better way.
>2. Most men are better suited emotionally for politics than are most women
Better suited as "can deal with it better" or "makes for a better politician"? These aren't exactly the same… They're both still sexist I suppose, but they're sexist in very different ways.
>3. It is much better for everyone involved if the man is the achiever outside the home and the woman takes care of the home and family
>4. “Because of past discrimination, employers should make special efforts to hire and promote qualified women.”
I believe you actually don't need to make special efforts for women, you just have to stop making special efforts for men (nepotism, getting smooth talked etc). IIRC women actually tend to do better on a lot of professional examinations then men, but when they're implemented in hiring it paradoxically tends to make hiring more male, since hirers conveniently wave the requirements for people they like while aggressively screening against people they aren't buddy-buddy with (inc women). Arguably it would require "special efforts" to stop discrimination against women, but that wouldn't necessarily require "affirmative action" as such.

In any case the effect size is very small, its only a correlational survey, and imo shows """benevolent sexism""" more than they show lower rates of misogyny.

In general I'm suspicious of any narrative that doesn't disaggregate types of pornography. Very little would say something as silly as "music is sexist", or "fantasy is racist" or "strategy games are reactionary" without some qualifications. There are some things you can say about pornography as a whole e.g. "dopamine addiction" or health effects relating to nutting, but I can't see how sexism (or anti-sexism) could possibly be a common outcome of all different genres of pornography (or all porn genres for straight men).

>>1805989
>In general I'm suspicious of any narrative that doesn't disaggregate types of pornography. Very little would say something as silly as "music is sexist", or "fantasy is racist" or "strategy games are reactionary" without some qualifications. There are some things you can say about pornography as a whole e.g. "dopamine addiction" or health effects relating to nutting, but I can't see how sexism (or anti-sexism) could possibly be a common outcome of all different genres of pornography (or all porn genres for straight men).

I would agree with this. I for example mostly enjoy softcore stuff, I really cannot see an argument for banning say, pin up style modeling in a socialist society post-sexual revolution. Shit like Facial Abuse tho? Straight to the gulag. It's a balancing act. But then again, I've fucked bottoms that are into that type of rough, domination, would it not be denying women's agency if we said "well there's no woman who enjoys X thing".

I dunno, I know that a cultural revolution must happen in Amerika, but I also know the last attempt at a culture revolution failed in far too many ways for us to not learn from it.

>>1797654
I think FARC took that last point and ran with it.
>Multigenerational breeding of insuregent forces

I remember coming across this one time, where basically its saying that the real incels are leftists, and the reason why the left so vehemently hates incels is because it's trying its hardest to not be seen as that. Which I do find odd, since you have openly proclaimed incels, and most of the time, they are unabashedly right wing. Is it more like, actual incels, like how the name is implied, "involuntarily celibate" are left wing, and the self-proclaimed ones, who take on the more political nature of incels, are the right-wing ones. Or is this just cope from this guy, and trying to be like "Actually, the right is the cool ones, and the left is gay and has no sex."

>>1808274
idk who scott greer is but this is very strange. anecdotally from involvement in organizing i dont think "the left" has a very different ratio than any other demographic in terms of sexless people/people who have lots of casual sex/people who are just normal people somewhere in between. and for all the nonsense that undeniably goes on in "left spaces", people are generally more gentle and permissing of difference, very much including "nerds" of all kinds. whatever this guy is talking about really sounds like some online brained bullshit

>>1797654
excellent response, i completely agree on all counts

>>1808283
I do agree that he is exaggerating the level of I guess partisanship when it comes to "inceldom" or just the loneliness epidemic. I think the safer reasoning is that all ideologies, all parties, all facets of life, there is a sizable portion that is what can be considered to be incels. Lonely people. Which I think says a lot more about the current state of the world rather than certain politics.

>>1791196
I was in a Maoist third worldist org in college and the only rule was no White male-WOC couples. We decided that it was sexual colonialism and didn't tolerate it. I understand that this would probably rib a lot fo people the wrong way, but if you read some more history you'll understand why we thought this way even if makes you feel icky.

>>1808406
that is fucking retarded and everyone involved should feel ashamed

>>1808407
Men of color had to sit on their hands at gunpoint watch white men use their women like toys for centuries. Again, I understand if this makes you feel icky, but there's solid hiustorical materialsm behind this reasoning

>"B-but socialism is all about absolute personal freedom. Fuck who you want"

We're collectivists, not indivualists.

>>1808409
ok im assuming this is bait but either way you should stop

>>1808294
yeah i absolutely agree with that

>>1808411
>History is bait

I think you're baiting me.

>>1808414
please get to the back of the progressive stack line, listen & learn

>>1791199
>Another incel stalinist
Wow what a shock that people that fap to reviled historical figures hate sex

>>1791235
It's because if you're a stalinist in the West odds are you're socially isolated and have been for long enough to wind up in extremely fringe radical politics that would make most people see you as a weirdo
Odds are you won't be normie enough to get a woman to want to sleep with you whether or not you worship Stalin, guys like that are often already incels. At least white guys. Non-white dudes can be relatively normie-ish and go full stalinist just from living in the West as a non-white person and being conscious.

>>1791275
Except the actual sexual exploitation is usually conducted by the freaks that lead the parties and orgs that ban the rank and file from forming intimate relationships (that don't involve them that is)

>>1808274
Cringe e-celeb video. The reason you don't see as many self identified incels on the left is because it's already been inoculated with feminism as a progressive force. Loneliness is a universal problem, but Incel Identity is an ideology of ressentiment. I think the label by its association with "women bad" ideology has done immeasurable damage to actual progress dealing with atomization in society. Tell any lib: "maybe young people not having romantic partners is bad and we should examine the structural causes," and more often than not you'll get back a litany of vitriol almost matching that put out by the self proclaimed incels.

>>1805334
He's furious that most people want a decent life and not abstractions or even worse being some factory serf living in nearly identical conditions to life in burgerstan just with more welfare, cheaper products, and different consumer products.

>>1808442
>Tell any lib: "maybe young people not having romantic partners is bad and we should examine the structural causes," and more often than not you'll get back a litany of vitriol almost matching that put out by the self proclaimed incels.

idk, i feel like any normie liberal would be plenty open to this idea if you framed it in that way. its really only internet poisoned left-liberal ideologues that would read that much into saying "having romantic relationships is healthy and good and its alarming that so many people who would otherwise be pursuing that are lonely and isolated"

>>1791196
Healthcare pls

>>1797654
Where is the evidence for this? Does the CPC have this phenomenon? Is Xi a slut?

>>1791275
Based Bloodgasm at it again.

>>1808445
You're right, but if you try to pivot off of them fuming about incels to the actual issue, then it's very difficult.

>>1808455
Checks out.

>>1808460
But he’s fat now

>>1808406
That was the most retarded bullshit I have read today. And I had a spat with an ancap, that's saying something.

>>1791381
Came here to say this, this is a westoid problem. My workplace was also rife with insane sex scandals involving the upper brass. You'd think only imageboarders would be the only ones festering insane psychosexual pathologies inside their little heads. This is wrong and also cope. It's everyone lol.

>>1808406
They’re liberals and they’re promoting segregation

>>1791196
OP is some fed shit, speaking abstractly about "SA polycules, Trot rape cults or Maoist sex gurus"
What orgs are in question?
>Why are left-wing sects so imbalanced when it comes to having sex?
Don't join a political group for sex, you fucking retard. Root out the sex pest in yourself, you assclown

>>1791349
you are a fed. kys

>>1791270
>>1791271
>>1791273
>>1791309
>Lenin and Stalin were reactionary
Are you guys unfamiliar with the concept of anachronism or just need to be introduced to the definition of reactionary?

>>1810060
Protective segregation done be oppressed people isn't the same as Jim Crow. Only someone who's arguing in bad faith, or just doesn't know therory would conflate the two.

>>1819959
NTA. I get that, but it‘s truly pointless in this case. There is no concrete relation between what happened back then and now and doing that serves therefore no purpose. It‘s purely symbolic, therefore idealist.

I'm gonna be honest lads, I don't fuck.

>>1808461
Twink death is real.