/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

Euroids are just american trend hoppers.

>>1792141
What did the ruling socialist party do in those two years?

>be Brazilian rightoid
>move to Portugal to escape from the Lula regime
>turns out their president is a socdem too
>vote for Chega (far-right party)
>suffer xenophobia and risk getting deported
This has actually happened

>>1792141
Honestly it's probably the CIA.
I'm not even joking. We know they interfere in Central/South American, Asian, and African elections, why wouldn't they interfere in European elections?

>>1792146
Nothing, they held together by old fucks who only care about their pension.
>>1792141
Because the the far right is good at manipulating anger and misdirecting it, a bulk of CHEGAs base is mostly young people which is a huge problem (and Brazilians lol), people are pissed about the unchecked immigration and decreasing QoL. In my point of view they are winning because some left wing parties focus on American culture war issues instead of economic issues and the plight of the working class.

>>1792141
A lot of people like left-wing policies as you (the average leftypol poster) would understand them, or believe the problems the left wants to address are important, but they don't trust or believe in the left. There are many profound economic, social and cultural changes that are involved.

Basically we're talking about recapturing the (white) working class outside large urban centers. We don't need to go through the whole history of deindustrialization and the decline of unions, but I think it's that, and tension over immigration and Islam, which is a difficult topic for the left because harsh enforcement of border laws is in many ways antithetical to leftist ideology. Then you have subsections of that like the Israel-Gaza war recently which exploded and divides constituencies in Europe and the United States. There hasn't been a terrorist attack by a Salafist extremist in awhile but that has an effect which the right makes into a signature issue.

Then there's the media. Despite the right complaining all the time about the media being biased against them, the far right in many countries has practically become hegemonic in terms of how the media interprets certain questions. Marine Le Pen in France doesn't have to speak, because other forces do her job for her and she benefits automatically. She's playing on easy mode and the left is on nightmare mode. The far right doesn't have to offer concrete proposals. They can just steal left-wing rhetoric while their actual policies are to do the opposite of that. Their win conditions are just fundamentally different from the left – they don't have to truly change people's lives in power, they just have to give the frustration, fear and anxiety a form of expression.

The decline of parties and unions as sources of identity – or even the "proletariat" as something they think of themselves as being part of – also means "politics" is cannibalized by the politics of personality. People are just inside their homes watching TV or doomscrolling on social media, where right-wing pundits and ideologues thrive, and they subsist on generating fear and anxiety. The left does its own social-media-driven engagement and promotes personalities of its own, which can help turn people out in the streets (recent protests in France against Macron, BLM in the U.S.), but it doesn't necessarily translate into enough juice to acquire power.

"Woke" is also a bad way to frame it, because it's a right-wing frame. I think there's more like a series of tripwires connected to little grenades that liberals, the right (and the press) use to trip up the left. To use France as example, last year, Fabien Roussel of the PCF tweeted that he wished every French citizen could enjoy "a good steak, a good wine, a good piece of cheese – that’s la gastronomie française!” Then a Green Party member replied that couscous (a North African dish) was the most popular among the French – implying that he was being racist and that they shouldn't define French food as wine and cheese. But Roussel insisted that it was French.

The Green politician, Sandrine Rousseau (pic on right), has also wanted to "de-virilize" barbecuing. Like take the masculinity out of barbecue. This is stupid and has nothing to do with anything. If you go to a butcher and ask him about it, he wouldn't even know what that means. Roussel of the PCF isn't anti-woke or whatever, or a misogynist – he believes in the left-wing values. But I think you have to counter the right, undermine their hegemony, impose your own themes, and recognize that you have to bring in a broad number of people, at least a plurality of whom are going to be at least moderately socially conservative, without adopting the right-wing frame – more being able to playfully disarm the grenades that they're setting up to fuck you over. And become a real force of opposition which unites large numbers of people from the working and middle classes, and which overcomes collective demoralization by the technocratic neoliberal consensus. It's not easy.

>>1792193
>The Green politician, Sandrine Rousseau (pic on right), has also wanted to "de-virilize" barbecuing. Like take the masculinity out of barbecue.
This is because the left and socialists in general stopped using murder and assassination as a means to get rid of obvious glowies. If she tried pulling this shit in the USSR she would have been shot for wrecking but here in 2024 the cowards representing the left offer her a platform for her joke of an ideology.

>>1792196
I understand your frustration with this Green politician, but while I didn't mention it, I suspect the USSR's reputation for murder and assassination did not overall help the PCF's image during the latter years of the 20th century.

>>1792193
>last year, Fabien Roussel of the PCF tweeted that he wished every French citizen could enjoy "a good steak, a good wine, a good piece of cheese – that’s la gastronomie française!” Then a Green Party member replied that couscous (a North African dish) was the most popular among the French – implying that he was being racist and that they shouldn't define French food as wine and cheese. But Roussel insisted that it was French.
How the fuck did these people come to power honestly? Like this has to be some sort of psyop to kill leftist movements.
>>1792193

>The Green politician, Sandrine Rousseau (pic on right), has also wanted to "de-virilize" barbecuing. Like take the masculinity out of barbecue
I fucking hate Greens

>>1792202
moralfaggotry is a deep rot in leftism in the west as a whole.

>>1792198
y? their popularity peaked in 1945 no?

>>1792141
$$$
far right politics are never "popular". even the nazis were a minoritarian party with the most funding and support of any political party/movement ever

>>1792202
I am convinced it is due to the Corporate class freaking out over the Occupy movement, they managed to infiltrate/fund leftists groups to shift attention from economic issues to idpol radlib shit and "ethical capitalism". See how parties like Die Linke evolved over the past decade.

>>1792150
They literally already did before the CIA was even a thing, see France and Italy. Australia and America itself as well. Elections are fake. Even though the game is designed as a representative democracy for the bourgeoisie and whatever slop flavour coating that the proles get to decide they like more to help the medicine go down, if the proles ever pick wrong then they fix it like with al gore v bush or bernie vote irregularities or whatever

>>1792202
What the fuck are you talking about? If the greens are anything like German and burger ones then they are a specifically bourgeois party whether their base is proletarian or not. Like even more obvious sucdems. Not a psyop, cynical virtue signaling is part and parcel of bourgeois politicking since they can't simply state a factually correct materialist analysis/critique and their literal job is to obscure the truth like this

>>1792214
I do think a lot of voters who do vote for far-right parties are not particularly loyal to it. They have their die-hards but that's the underlying condition of people who are engaging in politics in a shallow way, and the extent of their identification with it is showing up and voting and not much besides – a party is no longer an organization that defines an important part of your life. There's less stability in how a lot of people vote. Sometimes they vote for the left, and sometimes not. Even those who broadly identify with the left don't necessarily join parties as opposed to expressing their views on social media.

>>1792217
I think that view is way overdetermined. The CIA becomes like a malevolent trickster God that is always pulling the rug out from the under the left. For me, I tend to think just social media has a large role in this radlib stuff because that's where it's really playing out. Just the internet "attention economy" and market logic that rewards shamelessness to maximize traffic. There were all these websites here in the U.S. that were trying to go viral on Facebook with that shit. "A guy tried to mansplain why a woman should not dye their hair. It blew up in his face." [CLICK HERE.] The right-wing culture warriors operate on the same basis with SJW owned compilations. The main winners of all of this have been the giant, monopolistic tech companies.

>>1792226
maybe not literal cia but why would we assume there is not possibly some level of interference in every bourgeois election if bourgeois class interests have technical control over it and a motivation to interfere?

>>1792144
Europe went far right after 2011 refugee crisis. Trump wasnt a thing back then.

>>1792141
We can point out specific events or policies but in the end the driving forces are feelings like fear or hate.

>>1792228
That's a reasonable assumption, and when you look at social media there are all kinds of opportunities for mass manipulation.

But there might not even be evil geniuses here most of the time (although it stands to reason intelligence agencies are in the mix). There can also just be blind robots which are programmed to get you addicted and reward and amplify behavior that's immediate, such as your reaction when you're scared or irritated or angry. If they didn't there would be no profit to be made.

These social media companies have built systems which exist to exploit consumers and obscure the true value of the product being provided – or rather it's YOU who are the substrate of which value is being extracted – and that value is your attention, your money, or the platform offering services to third parties to manipulate and change your behavior for whatever reason (like getting you to vote for far-right parties so those third parties can seize control of a country). We see the takeoff of radlib SJW stuff happen with the development and takeoff of social media and Facebook and Twitter.

Or to use an everyday example, a Call of Duty gamer makes a video about why he doesn't like feminists. He gets a load of attention and money. Then a bunch of other Call of Duty players see that and they start making videos like that too. But would it have even happened without the intervention by the algorithm? It's not just human behavior that changes the algorithms, it's algorithms that change human behavior, like the blind force of capital that is rearranging (and in the process ruining) human beings to serve it.

It seems like this has had negative consequences for right-wing parties as well. The Republicans may have underperformed in the 2022 U.S. midterms because they were too online and ran elections about drag queens, like a reverse negative polarity of the SJW disease that infected the left. But the left were earlier adopters of the technology.

Also it would be dialectical if these systems do end up destroying themselves as well. What made them rise is what will make them fall.

>>1792250
>
It seems like this has had negative consequences for right-wing parties as well. The Republicans may have underperformed in the 2022 U.S. midterms because they were too online and ran elections about drag queens, like a reverse negative polarity of the SJW disease that infected the left. But the left were earlier adopters of the technology.
i hope the left has got a shot from all that. I imagine that at least in the us you just don't see that much sjw shit anymore. The closest thing there is, is sweetbaby inc stuff but i don't know if many leftists particularly try to defend that.

>>1792253
Where green text?

rightoid parties
>we will SOLVE IMMIGRATION
>we will GIVE POWER BACK TO THE WORKERS
>we will LOWER INFLATION
>we will MAKE RENT CHEAPER
etc etc etc
leftoid parties
>we will empower minorities
>we will institute a green tax
>we will tax the rich 25% more (they won't pay them anyway)
>we will make rent cheaper
commietard parties
>bla bla blah boring intellectualspeak that no one who doesn't huff their own flatulence understands


Basically, the rightoid parties are promising the working class (their primary voterbase) things that they want. Will they achieve those things? no, obviously not, but theyre still promising them. In the UK you can see this with a lot of traditional Labour voters switching to the Reform party.

>>1792193
>because harsh enforcement of border laws is in many ways antithetical to leftist ideology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall
you think?

>>1792193
Idk how can anyone paint PCF leader as anything but anti-woke. He is as much of a wrecker as the Greens, affirming right wing positions on immigration and crime. He is primarily the reason the NUPES is over.

false consciousness

>Why do people vote for far right parties?
When the medias decides to shill right-wing parties right-wing parties win. When the medias decides to shill center-left parties, center-left parties wins.
At least in western europe that's how it is.

This thread is further proof this shithole is beyond help. Absolutely no marxist analysis at all.

>>1792389
What would be the marxist analysis them, i am curious

>>1792396
NTA but probably something about Deindustrialisation and false consciousness. Trade unions are either too weak or too classcucked to seed a successful left wing party hence anti-establishment people vote for the right.

>when the economy is bad
Import the third world become the third world
>When the economy is good
They'll integrate I don't care

Is anyone looking at the elections on salzburg?? The communists there are winning bigly, so any government wont have support without the communist support unless some fucking cordon sanitarie agaisnt them qnd this goes agaisnt the trend.

>>1792301
Kind of true sadly.
The commie parties in particular have become so bad and insular too. They only do wordcel shit no one cares about or try do regain votes by doing anti-woke populism that don't work.
>>1792303
Roussel is a retarded wrecker it's insane. I wouldnt even attack him for being a right-deviationist if his strategy at least brought votes but the guy and his party are more irrelevant than ever
>>1792449
Truth.

>>1792494
>try do regain votes by doing anti-woke populism that don't work.
Why would anyone believe them though? This is a cynical tactic that makes no sense. Any young communist is the biggest sperg for mass immigration and more transhumanists

>>1792449
You are retarded because you cannot tell the difference between zionist and nationalists

>>1793170
so true!!

>>1792193
>The decline of parties and unions as sources of identity – or even the "proletariat" as something they think of themselves as being part of – also means "politics" is cannibalized by the politics of personality. People are just inside their homes watching TV or doomscrolling on social media, where right-wing pundits and ideologues thrive, and they subsist on generating fear and anxiety. The left does its own social-media-driven engagement and promotes personalities of its own, which can help turn people out in the streets (recent protests in France against Macron, BLM in the U.S.), but it doesn't necessarily translate into enough juice to acquire power.

I think this is also an important aspect of it. I'd argue people spend more time viewing screens than they do talking with their fellows in some places. Even if the Left turns it around (and I'd argue we've seen an increase in Socialism online, so that's good) none of these individual Socialists actually do anything. When proletarian identity declines as much as it has, the nation is the last bastion of any kind of collectivity. It becomes the vehicle for people to solve their problems through, because they can't actually see any alternative institutions they all pay fealty to.

This is something I mentioned when I critiqued the phrase "Abolish the Police", which is that to most people you're essentially saying "No one is coming to help you if you get robbed." And no amount of goddamn statistics about crime rates will unseat a fear of crime brought on by constant media consumption.

And while some people mentioned Community Defense Groups, well then the question is: Where the FUCK are they? The Socialists of yesteryear could point to trade unions, or actual community defense groups that existed already, and they could say "Well let's just expand these things and their responsibilities." The Socialists of today come across as arguing for the destruction of existing institutions without an alternative, and reactionaries use this to their advantage. I think that's something we're forgetting, there was a whole environment of, for example, Socialist Football Clubs in Europe, Socialist universities, and on and on and on. We're so fucking decayed from that high watermark that it's no wonder people have trouble seeing themselves as a class.

Part of it may be a lack of knowledge or commitment on the part of Socialists themselves. I've joked before that during the Spanish Civil War, you'd have guys joining the Anarchists then leaving after a couple days before they're bored. Well, that's a problem affecting all of us now. We think Unions only exist to start strikes (rather than shit like helping you navigate insurance, finding you good schools, being a whole fucking environment to work in) and we have this wholly mechanical view of Union activity. They don't understand that the union is flesh and blood people. They think that if a Union declares a strike, y'know, people will just follow like they're being given orders in a RTS game. We see even ourselves as fundamentally alienated from our own institutions, that we only relate to them on the basis of giving and receiving orders and obeying them to the letter.

If you're a Socialist and you're arguing community defense, then that's great! Here's the question though: who's doing the community defense? What does it fucking look like? Do you have the free time to patrol your neighborhood with some buddies and… what is it you'll do exactly? Do you want to LARP and flash rifles? Or are you just a glorified neighborhood watch? Are you willing to do this consistently enough to maintain your Community Defense Group? Because I hear even cops struggle with that, some of those fuckers end up working back-to-back 22 hour shifts. When you're on your second week of Community Defense Patrols, are you going to get fucking bored and leave? I mean, chances are you aren't getting paid for that shit.

Here's a good thought exercise that I picked up from a manager trying to emphasize our store as "part of the community." Do you know three facts about the person living down the street from you? Shit, do you even know their names? Then repeat that for the next house, and the one after that, and if you at least know a little bit about the people you live right next to, then maybe you could get a community defense group up and running.

But until such a time, a lot of the old Leftist organizing techniques depend on there being at least some kind of community to work within, not a bunch of atomized families worried that the girl scout trying to sell her cookies is a crack dealer.

>>1792141
>Only neolib or wannabe fascoids rule bourgeois "democracies" worldwide
It's almost as if it's a rigged spectacle. Hmm. 🤔

Nah, it's just leftists rhetoric not being good enough and playing the "democratic" game properly to win.

The only mistake Western leftists make, is to not claim that the elections are rigged every time they don't win and delegitimise the farce for what it is. They are too deeply indoctrinated by liberalism that they actually started to believe that the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie isn't real in practice and you can push workers' interests by just vooting hard enough.

>>1792196
Exactly! Modern Westoid "leftists" are so fanatically opposed to using dirty tactics, because they think it's "authoritarian" like muh eeeevul Stalin.
They don't understand that you can't win this rigged game by playing fair and having "the moral highground" over reactoids.
The Bolsheviks robbed banks for fuck's sake! Modern leftists are worse than hippies and the most idiotic pacifists.

Doing simple bullying to reactoid politicians, like sending violent threats, smashing their car windows and other property, killing their dogs etc. does wonders. Most are opportunists anyway, and will quickly bail, when they feel threatened. It's not a cause worth dying for most of them.

But nooOOOooo "violence bad!"

>>1792250
>It seems like this has had negative consequences for right-wing parties as well. The Republicans may have underperformed in the 2022 U.S. midterms because they were too online and ran elections about drag queens, like a reverse negative polarity of the SJW disease that infected the left. But the left were earlier adopters of the technology.

Not just that, but I get the impression (as a foreigner, admittedly) that the republican party is fucked even if Trump wins this year. There's no way they can find someone to replace him, and I wonder if their base is spoiled now.

Also,
>These social media companies have built systems which exist to exploit consumers and obscure the true value of the product being provided – or rather it's YOU who are the substrate of which value is being extracted -
Largely agree but it's a tiny bit more complicated than that. Look up Corey Doctorow's shit

>>1792301
Reform party got wrecked in recent election against Galloways Workers Party though

>>1792193
>which is a difficult topic for the left because harsh enforcement of border laws is in many ways antithetical to leftist ideology.
Leftist ideology is an incoherent mishmash of social-fascism so it's unsurprising that their attitude to immigration is the same as the CATO institute

>>1792141
Maybe they're just accelerationists, but screw it. Bad news is good news, now.

>>1792141
Capitalism in decay. They at least have something resembling an answer for the current state of things, which is a lot compared to the nothing that liberals offer.
They also get media support, with news shit having cried about muh invasion for years at this point

Because the reaction is the one appropriating the banner of social justice after the thorough decimation of the Left by the Neoliberal revolution. This is the case with the Muslim Brotherhood and now is also the case with European populism and Hindutva and all the reactionary parliamentary elements; under the narrative of Struggle in the path of Purity are fundamentally bread-and-butter issues which mobilized the masses. Of course these reactionaries will fall like the Soviet Union before them, and the most likely trajectory of these movements are to end up being hijacked by middle class elements who emphasized solely on the identity purity part of the messaging while ditching the populism part.

>>1793070
>Why would anyone believe them though?
Well every right-wing party people votes for keep increasing immigration too despite making it their official goal to stop le great reblacement.
>Any young communist is the biggest sperg for mass immigration
We just believes that once they have been brought here we must treat them correctly. Your camp likes to make it seems like it's importing the whole third world but it's not.
>and more transhumanists
If only. Most first-world communists just want permanent social-stagnation (if not conservatism) but with more welfare and more anti-racism. They don't really care about trans people.
We're the opposite of China/Vietnam in a way.
>>1793174
'em
>>1793204
You are correct but it must also be done with our people occupying important tasks in society and the medias, if we just do terrorism like what the New Left did during the cold war we're just gonna scare people and ends up being as repulsive as chu.ds.
>>1793367
This.

I swear the only reason socdems let in immigrants is so people vote for far right instead of far left.

>>1794402
The right also let them in as shown by Meloni, Orban, UK, Putin and Poland, it doesnt make sense to refer to the immigration situation as a left/right thing. It's a growth VS degrowth problem.
No party (or people) at the moment wants to tolerate an economic and productivity decline, native people arent making 5 kids per woman like they did during the industrial rev, so the elites have no choice but to import people from all over the world continuously since those peoples FTR declines to native levels after 2 if not 1 generation.

>>1792141
>having faith in vooting
>having faith in the social fascists or "left-wing" parties to not cede power to the right under a capitalist system
ngmi

because libshits are ruining europe for amerikkka's geopolitical interests in oinkraine and rightoids are the only ones addressing that issue
also idpol
it's not rocket science

>>1794513
>No party (or people) at the moment wants to tolerate an economic and productivity decline,
This is retarded, mass immigration is causing a economic decline. A very small share of of migrants from Africa or the Middle-East become gainfully employed, even less of the second and third generation. Have too many cab drivers and uber eats delivery guys, and a shit loads of people living on welfare does not grow the economy. The UK, which has the highest absolute number of migrants and highest per capita, is the economy in Europe declining the most.

>>1796612
>immigration is causing economic decline
yeah man it's definitely immigants and not uk peacing out of the eu or eu sanctioning their biggest source of cheap gas or anything like that

>why
The average western leftoid never read mein campf unironically, or at all.

>>1796640
In what way did immigration, LGBT and political correctness make your life worse than porky gambling on real estate and cutting your wages?

>>1792141
>Why do people vote for far right parties?
Because the right at least puts catharsis on the culture war menu through scapegoating a trendy "other" while the libleft offers commiseration instead.

And whenever the libleft can offer an other outside the political theater, it can't really divert very much from the foreign policy consensus of liberal democracy as steered by capital, so both sides start looking the same. So discontent flows to the edgier side.

The socialists are then forced to play by the political theater, where they can never win at culture war and become the internal scapegoat that the libleft so desperately needs. While capital and the captured state works to undermine them.

>>1796640
shut the fuck up you braindead uyghur holy shit

>>1796640
Kill yourself

Idpol libs simply do not appeal to the working class. When you're starving to death it feels like a joke to see a politician that claims to root for you talking about weird gender shit you don't understand or give a shit about at all. Rightoids take advantage of working class despair, rally against an enemy (migrants, communists, whatever the fuck, it doesnt matter) and promise to fix everything (either by beating the made up bad guys or by not explaining exactly how they'll make shit better, this works if you're charismatic btw), whereas idpol libs promise rainbow colored exploitation and pack it tightly in dense monotone academic lingo.

>>1796708
>Corbyn and Bernie fell off in the anglosphere because they were weak on immigration issues and both also failed to be proper leaders and just backed into their parties for a consensus.

Not really, they got slaughtered by a hostile media.

sometimes they just really hate transhumanists

>>1796719
>the public dont actually care about immigration
if they did care then they would stop corporations from handing out visas in the first place instead of voting for zionists

>>1796725
its the public's own self determination to have a representative democracy. The USA wouldnt even be united anymore if direct democracy was feasible.

>>1796734
believe it or not most people's lives would be disrupted if this shithole balkanized into a libertarians wet dream

>>1796700
>When you're starving to death
>in the global north
>in western euro welfarite regimes in particular
I'm anti-JDPON larping but come on lol. My parents were basically poor lumpens and even i did not come anywhere close to starving.
>>1796708
Bernie was tougher on immigration that every republican candidates at the time and still is now. I even remember when he got called antisemitic for saying open borders were a Koch brothers conspiracy.
>>1796719
They don't care until the economy is doing bad.

>>1796940
Tougher than Trump?
I do wonder what a bernie-trump debate would have looked like. Right wing populism vs left wing populism. If only.
Corbyn also got called antisemitic by zionists as a smear campaign. Those people sure do get a lot of power in deciding who youre allowed to agree with, huh?

>>1796940
>Bernie was tougher on immigration that every republican candidates at the time and still is now
He isn't, he has recanted all such views a long time ago, and never had a voter record that suggested he ever believed it.

> I even remember when he got called antisemitic for saying open borders were a Koch brothers conspiracy.
He said this 8 years ago, and did a 180 a month or two into his campaign.

>>1796948
This is like watching a kid try to put a square block in a circular hole