/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

proletarian receiving more money so that he can survive is nice

that' s right communism is when no pay

>>1793924
>>1793921
Then they stop being proletarians, dumbshits.

>>1793918
Alright so instead of giving them money the orgs could provide food, shelter, education, transporting, and other benefits to improve the life of the proletarians, sounds better now?

>work for me for free or you're not a real communist
You're not clever

Hamburger thread. Sage

>>1793918
I think Lenin said something about how the German social democrats wouldn't be able to make a revolution because they charged a lot less than the Russian social democrats. Like, how can you expect people who don't pay 1/3 of their income to the party to make sacrifices for a revolution?

can someone explain to me why stalin said that "Social-Democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism. "?

>>1793918
do you think it's impossible for a proletarian party to exploit some of its members?

>>1793962
Because he was trying to justify the current poor relations with the west, only to backtrack on all of it later when he decided allying with the western world was more convenient and saying social democracy was actually progressive

>>1793937
that's what i'm sayin dawg. socialismsm is when no pay

>>1793957
sauce?

>>1793918
>This separation between the proletarian job and party activity is stupid.
Lmao maybe but people have families to feed and bills to be paid.

>>1793957
he said something similar about how they'd hesitate in taking over a train station unless they bought tickets first

>>1793957
im sure they wouldnt be able to "make a revolution" by virtue of being social democrats, or just electoralists in general lol

>>1794104
Is this about the budget issues that they have had allegedly?

>>1794115
no its about socdems not being about workers dismantling capitalism

>>1793962
Fascism is the bourgeoisie’s fighting organisation that relies on the active support of Social-Democracy. There is no ground for assuming that the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of Social-Democracy. There is just as little ground for thinking that Social-Democracy can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie. These organisations do not negate, but supplement each other. They are not antipodes, they are twins. Fascism is an informal political bloc of these two chief organisations; a bloc, which arose in the circumstances of the post-war crisis of imperialism, and which is intended for combating the proletarian revolution. The bourgeoisie cannot retain power without such a bloc. It would therefore be a mistake to think that “pacifism” signifies the liquidation of fascism. In the present situation, “pacifism” is the strengthening of fascism with its moderate, Social-Democratic wing pushed into the forefront.

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1924/09/20.htm

I agree. organizers should live on air and reading theory

>>1793918
But DSA's staff are the professional vanguard of the democratic socialist movement, they should be supported in their work by the rank and file

>>1793918
Have you actually read marx or lenin or looked at history?
The leaders of actually impactfull parties are informally politically prosecuted, for one, and cant hold a job because of that. Secondly, it takes a lot of time for the party leadership to run things, it is a full time job and better executed if someone can spend their full time on it.

All unions made sure their leaders could do their union work full time. The comintern did. Lenin did. Other revolutionary parties did.
Did mao have a job besides leading the revolution? Did lenin? Did ho chi min? Kim il sung? Fidel Castro? Rosa Luxembourg? Karl Liebknecht? No.

Now, the DSA does pay its leaders too much. And special care needs to be take to prevent carreerist, for example through low pay, through having the general congress (the highest organ) be made up of non-paid representatives who then set the wages, etc.
For a small party holding down a job is usefull to not lose touch, but at some point the leadership becomes such a task it needs people to be able to do it full time. You can prevent careerism by trying to hire non-leading support staff if possible, but there is a reason lenin says you need proffesional revolutionaries.
You cannot hold a job when you're plotting civil war. The fact that your public political activities actively harm your ability to live will blunt your activities.

What this thread advocates is subjecting the proletariat to the power the bourgeoisie by letting the bourgeoisie directly threaten their leaderships ability to eat.

>>1794104
>im sure they wouldnt be able to "make a revolution" by virtue of being social democrats
Holy shit you just proved how actually unread and retarded you are.
Before the german failed revolution of 1918, all communists called themselves social democrats. The bolshevik party was the social democratic party. It was only after the betrayal of the right wing of the SPD in germany that a split in name was adopted by all communists in opposition to the institutionalised right wing social democrats.

The people you call socdems and electoralists are also Rosa Luxembourg and Karl Liebknecht.

This is a great idea. This way only trustfund kiddies rent-seekers and the like will be able to occupy leaderhship positions in popular orgs because only them will have the free time and resources to sustain political activism

>>1793937
Its precisely because they're being paid that they are proletarians. The members of the party collectively employ full or part time organisers to work them.

>>1794104
historically illiterate

>>1794504
What goods or tangible services do the Social Fascists of America leadership produce in exchange for their pay?

>>1793918
Correct, true proletarian parties should be like the SEP or former ISO and be run by small business owners who use profits from their publishing houses to pay themselves.

MFW when the DSA asks me for 1/3 of my salary or else i can't be a real communist

Bleak thread. Communism is truly dead.

I could waste a lot of words about party cadre or I could just point out that paying some staffers in NYC $50k/yr doesn't matter nearly so much as paying $360k/yr to a fucking corporate HR consultant, who isn't even a socialist much less a member, for the express purpose of making sure the org isn't embarassed by any of its numerous sex scandals

>>1797729
also they officially "fired" this consultant last year, but she hasn't gone anywhere because the NPC NPCs haven't even gotten around to approving the posting of a job listing to start considering her replacement

Fundimentally Social Democracy and Fascism is just the carrot and the stick of the bourgeoisie; both are meant to be a form of control over the Proletariat to ensure that they don't revolt

You can get paid to be in an org? Like how much are we talhing here, enough to make rent?