No.1798892
The end of the hegemony of the current imperial core will be a good thing, but will not mean communism is ushered in. This statement should be obvious, but apparently it isn't. Whenever people support the end of imperial core hegemony in the short term, there are always those who show up to "remind" everyone that
>1: multipolarity (an objectively emerging material condition which they call "multipolarism) is not communism,
>2: multipolarity will cause more geopolitical chaos
>3: the vilified rising star nations (BRICS+) are not communist
>4: you are duginist revisionist campist nazbol etc. if you critically support the periphery against the core.
Even more annoying than the above type of person are the JDPON (Joint Dictatorship of the Proletariat of Oppressed Nations) larpers, possibly trolls, or false flaggers, who actually do seem to pretend that the end of imperial core hegemony equals insta-JDPON. No. Obviously not. Obviously the imperial core waning in power means other countries rising in power. Obviously a new imperial core could form, just as it has in the past. Obviously the center of gravity of capital will continue to move around.
I think the real non-caricature hope among Communists is not that the end of imperial core hegemony equals insta-JDPON, but rather that, it will become harder and harder for imperial core capital to simply repeat the tricks of underdevelopment (coups, sanctions, embargoes, brain drain, destruction of fixed capital in warfare, etc.) which made it oh-so-easy for the core to use the periphery as a cheap labor source. Once "foreign" workers are, on average, just as cheap as "domestic" workers, due to equal levels of development, there will no longer be an incentive to outsource or brain drain. And once that happens, there will no longer be an easy scapegoat for reactionary politics. The domestic bourgeoisie will no longer be able to blame the foreign proletariat for "stealing jobs" and so on. International class consciousness will be on the rise.
Multipolarity, which is an emerging material condition, and not an ideology, is not an improvement in the mode of production itself, but an improvement in the potential conditions for raising class consciousness and encouraging international solidarity.
pic unrelated
No.1798908
China
No.1798927
>>1798892Yeah, we had multipolarity before. It was called the Concert of Europe. And yet, Lenin didn't support any of these powers in any way, shape or form. Most people on this website just hate America - which is nice, but not a replacement for Marxism.
No.1799915
>>1798927>reminding people number 2wow
No.1799928
>>1798927Hey, what happened to the colonial states which made up that "multipolarity" (a state of affairs defined by opposition to that of US unipolarity, or bipolarity with the USSR)? Where are those nations now? Which bloc are they a part of?
No.1799969
China is Communist. Your entire post is invalid.
No.1799980
>>1798892uh yeah what did you think self determination and increasing productive forces was supposed to be about??
No.1800144
>>1798927>Ww1 was imperial powers competing over colonial interests>multipolarity is happening by developing the third world out of their colonial relationships You are wrong
No.1800254
>>1798892One of the few good posts on this entire site
No.1800256
>>1799969I agree fellow pog
No.1800258
>>1800254>One of the few good posts on this entire siteHow?
It's just shit everyone knows.
Watching people agree with you is not a good use of anything.
No.1800277
>>1800258>How? >It's just shit everyone knows.The vast majority of the active posters on this site by now are fully on the campist retard train. No. Not everyone knows this. Half of the parties irl tow the kautskian multipolarista line.
No.1800742
>Why won't all communists everywhere just accept modern Kautskyism from primarily black pilled self-loathing westfags that have no faith in or solidarity with any proles anywhere
<Literally need to pretend the 21st Century is an unholy mishmash of the 19th and 20th to justify your opportunism
Damn it's that time of month
No.1800753
so is there just no difference now between "recognizing this is a useful and relatively progressive state of affairs" and "specifically supporting specific entities within this state of affairs"?
No.1800781
third worldists are utterly delusional (they also are not marxist)
No.1800786
>>1800781anti-imperialist theory is a cornerstone of marxism
No.1800794
>>1800786Wrongo. Marxism is pro imperialism because imperialism is historically progressive and in the interest of civilization.
And will Bakunin accuse the Americans of a
"war of conquest", which, although it deals with a severe blow to his
theory based on "justice and humanity", was nevertheless waged
wholly and solely in the interest of civilization? Or is it perhaps
unfortunate that splendid California has been taken away from the
lazy Mexicans, who could not do anything with it? That the energetic
Yankees by rapid exploitation of the California gold mines will
increase the means of circulation, in a few years will concentrate a
dense population and extensive trade at the most suitable places on the
coast of the Pacific Ocean, create large cities, open up
communications by steamship, construct a railway from New York to
San Francisco, for the first time really open the Pacific Ocean to
civilization, and for the third time in history give the world trade a
new direction? The "independence" of a few Spanish Californians and
Texans may suffer because of it, in someplaces "justice" and other
moral principles may be violated; but what does that matter to such
facts of world-historic significance?
No.1800797
>>1800786>>1800794this was before capitalism became the mode of production in literally every single country in the world. imperialism is irrelevant to marxism these days and colonialism was necessary to get us where we are now so any talk about reparations or cheering for the small "guy" (poor and/or non-white bourgeois state) is nonsense (not dissimilar from liberals telling you to buy from small businesses)
No.1800803
>>1800790>>1800799The concept of radicalization or radicality in general is so stupid. You either help the proletariat come together as one or you don't. Anything else is not worth anyone's time.
No.1800806
What is it about socialism that attracts mostly people who are into cheering for a specific country (China, USSR, etc)? Whatever happened to marxism?
No.1800808
>>1800806I think he died.
No.1800809
>>1800803It's a kind of un-Marxist notion if you think about it, like the point of politics is to go around changing people's opinions.
>>1800805Not even Karl Marx himself (pbuh) could sway his own father, he was disappoint. If he can't do it, you can't do it. It would be easier for the posters on leftypol to get together and carry out of a coup d'etat that seizes power in a country of our choosing than to convince our parents to change their worldview.
No.1800811
>>1800809>It's a kind of un-Marxist notion if you think about it, like the point of politics is to go around changing people's opinions. Correct, it's treating communism like it's election time and you need to increase the numbers in the upcoming polls at any cost and not as "the real movement".
No.1800836
>>1800786For communists, defeating one imperialism is just as important as defeating all the others; imperialism is to be fought on class grounds, not in coalition with the bourgeoisie of whatever country you like more this time.
No.1800856
OP is sitting there dick in hand waiting to condemn Hamas I love it, don't leave him hanging
No.1800858
>>1800856Hamas seeks the creation of a Palestinian state that would begin competing on the world market to project its power outwards as soon as it came into existence. Why do leftoids care about Hamas so much?
No.1800861
>>1800858>Hamas seeks to become imperialistThat sounds an awful lot like a vibe which you read off of their desires, anon. Care to explain?
No.1800869
>>1800861Unless Hamas is a communist party leading a socialist revolution in Gaza right now and I missed that then it is an imperialist organization seeking to create a new imperialist state. Being an agent acting on behalf of regional powers certainly doesn't help. Even if it were not, the imperialist character of the war would not be altered in any way.
Whatever is happening in Gaza right now is Hamas giving up innocent Palestinians as a sacrifice on behalf of Iranian and Qatari capital.
No.1800875
>>1800869Define imperialism. You keep using that word.
No.1800881
>>1800875>>1800872Imperialism is not a subjective policy but the competition of states itself. Imperialism is the outward projection of bourgeois power in the act of competition with other states, this is intrinsic to every capitalist state rather than something external to being capitalist itself.
>>1800878>>1800879Are you going to explain what imperialism "actually" is or are you going to keep pulling this redditor act of pretending to be Socrates?
No.1800882
I like how the guy unable to address my points and only resort to cheap sophism was the neonazi pretending to be a leftoid. Welp.
No.1800883
>>1800881No, I'm not going to explain anything to you, it's only necessary for you to post what you think imperialism is.
No.1800887
>>1800883Of course you don't, that would require your brain to have any working neurons left. I explained it in the paragraph literally above the sentence you laser focused on for some reason to give a cheap non-reply.
No.1800888
>>1800781You know, watching this schizo, you may have a point
No.1800894
Wait I already know that gag
He's gonna snitch to the JDPON
No.1800921
You make people around you uncomfortable. That makes you neither cool or interesting.
They probably smell both your fear and hatred.
No.1801510
>>1800856??? where did you get that impression? Cumass is just palestinians understandably reacting to settler colonial genocide
No.1801511
>>1800806>What is it about socialism that attracts mostly people who are into cheering for a specific country (China, USSR, etc)This is just revolutionary defeatism in practice. If you denounce your own country's war mongering, you get accused of cheering for the state's enemies. If you live in the USA those enemies are PRC and Russia. If you denounce foreign policy, you must be "for" PRC and Russia. If you don't denounce them 24/7 or concede that they might be slightly less bad on certain issues, you are now a campist cheerleader. No winning.
No.1801513
>>1801511Imagine being a marxist-leninist and not support marxist-leninist countries. This is pure bait
No.1801691
>>1801513you misunderstand the point of the post
No.1802299
While some take 'multi-polarity' to imply the coexistence of large powers and therefore identify the late 19th century as 'multipolar,' multi-polarity refers to a new particularization and regionalization of global hegemony.
Drawing from Alexandre Kojève's notion of the 'universal and homogeneous state,' multi-polarity is in the Hegelian sense the rise of 'determinate universalism,' as opposed to the 'abstract universalism' characteristic of American super-imperialism. Newly emergent regional poles give globalization a concrete and civilizational character, thus corresponding to the rise of states that are simultaneously universal and particular, global, and regional.
Multi-polarity represents the sublation of the global American system into regional forms, that render it superfluous.
No.1805450
>>1800794>Citing Marx like scripture Marx didn't understand imperialism. Lenin brought that to maturity.
Ultras sneed and feed once again
No.1807057
Full communism is when we have reactionary anti revolutionary governments that hate america.
No.1807759
>>1807054that guy is fucking cringe
these guys are the real multipolaristas
No.1807765
>>1805450>Lenin brought that to maturity. Yep
<No Marxist will forget, however, that capitalism is progressive compared with feudalism, and that imperialism is progressive compared with pre-monopoly capitalism. Hence, it is not every struggle against imperialism that we should support. We will not support a struggle of the reactionary classes against imperialism; we will not support an uprising of the reactionary classes against imperialism and capitalism. No.1807770
>>1807759You can tell it's Wikipedia poster guy because he always returns to the scene of the crime to see if he got replies (he doesn't) and makes the same joke again
No.1807771
>>1807770Im not even wikipedia guy, I saw someone make that joke and I added upon it
No.1807775
>>1807770I am the wikipedia Guy, yes, i come see if i get some replies, but my haha funny joke got deleted. They want tô censor the free marketplace of socialist ideas
No.1808093
>>1798892> critically support the periphery against the coreThe "critically" part is the one that it's usually absent
No.1808101
The zine has an archive of an OP that explained this pretty eloquently.
https://newmultitude.org/socialism-not-multipolarism/ No.1808133
>>1808101Their server is broken
No.1808505
>>1808093>The "critically" part is the one that it's usually absentthats because criticism is supposed to happen behind closed doors in an actual party and not in public in front of detractors. demcent and popular front means you dont shit on allies to your enemies. internal criticism + external support and if your not in a party them "criticism" is just a speculative individualist circle jerk
No.1809294
When you're multipolar but you really mean your house party has strippers on multiple poles.
No.1809756
>>1808505This board ain't worth a fuck and doesn't have a single communist in it
If faggots like you want to die for Russian and Chinese capitalists you can move there and join their militaries, instead you decided to remain in the West and be mewling sycophantic cunt online
No.1809769
>>1809756>If faggots like you want to die for Russian and Chinese capitalists you can move there and join their militaries<Hey commie if you like socialism so much why don't you go to North KoreaThat argument is tiresome.
China is socialist No.1809788
>>1809769Hey Kautskyite if you like capitalist states that compete with the West why don't you die for them instead of feeling self-important by posting online worthless faggot
No.1809870
>>1809857>He can only even defend openly shilling for capitalist states by projecting onto othersKill yourself
Please, I want this board to stop down the path of some faggy woke version of fascism
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