/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>>1808104
it's a "feels good" thing
it's easy to support them and even easier to ostracise people who dont support it
it's an unhealthy alternative to people who do want to do politics without being serious or putting effort into it

>How the fuck is freedom to call yourself they anywhere near the priority of healthcare and organization?
1. No one claimed it was
2. Healthcare is an LGBT issue, if you're an LGBT person you can't divorce your healthcare needs from being LGBT
> Not to mention their willingly discarding the possibility of reaching the real working class who, lets face it, could really give two shits about trans rights and mostly just wants live and let live when it comes to LGBT.
If the working class don't care about LGBT issues and has a live and let live attitude, how is it discarding the possibility of reaching them to support lgbt rights?

In summary, you have to go back.

it's easier to make statements of support than it is to organize and doesn't take much time away from the latter, you can do both at the same time. and rightoid freaks are the ones obsessing over trans people and passing laws targeted at them, defending a section of the working class when they're under attack is good praxis

Being a homophobe and anti-feminist is cringe.

Just look at LatAm and how minority rights were able to mobilize mass movements during the Green Wave there.

>>1808104
>A fed op can't be this damn successful
Its even more depressing from this point of view. Make your enemies dress as clowns.

>>1808104
Western leftists only have identities. It's a pomo condition.

>>1808104
>How the fuck is freedom to call yourself they anywhere near the priority of healthcare and organization?
Its not really but pronouns arent a threat to the status quo and healthcare is. Its just natural selection that such topics survive into the public view and are allowed to consume attention of people.
>Not to mention their willingly discarding the possibility of reaching the real working class who,
I have no idea what you're talking about. Most trans rights activists you see arent communists, but liberals.

Also since trans rights are allowed and promoted to be the topic of the day, they also become a target of the right who needs to pretend they are fighting some enemy to restore the good old days. The same goes for any other retarded useless old cultural norm being broken somewhere, its weaponized by the right. Then that means anyone who is concerned or impacted by said norm flees that sector of politics to the side that doesn't actively harm them.

On a materialist note, the reason Trans people (and a lot of gays in the past) have a stake in communism is because they have, for them, of essential importance healthcare requirements. Trans people need surgery to get rid of their dysphoria and gay men needed healthcare to stop the aids epidemic.

I suggest you think about causality

>>1808104
The same reason so many Jews were radical leftists prior to the rise of Zionism: revolutionary ideologies attract outsider groups who seek to abolish the system that oppresses them. And anecdotally, a disproportionate number of the committed, well-read communists I've met have been trans.

Also, the implications of this discourse is always stupid. Scrubbing gender and racial issues from your org is not gonna make the working class flock to you. The vast majority of workers don't give a shit about socialism, and they recognize fringe political activism as the ineffectual timesink that it is.

>>1808104
>the real working class who, lets face it, could really give two shits about trans rights
Back to /pol/ or reddit with this retarded shit.

Reminder queerness and communism are intricately related to one another on the basis of bourgeoise (gendered/racialized) non conformity and marginalization.

Queer liberation is none other than proletarian liberation.

>>1808123
In my country the "no lgbt idpol" communist party (socdem) barely make 2% of the votes on national election despite their leader being invited on TV all the time to talk about shit, meanwhile the "lgbt idpol is ok" communist (socdem) party make 20% of the vote despite all the medias calling them gay-nazi-islamists for not supporting Israel enough.
I don't think communist/leftist parties "should" market themselves as the party of gay or trans issues as it distract from the greater goal but it's also not like it make them loose.
>>1808123
If you're not a POMO in 2024 you basically don't exist. Your based non-POMO parties are all irrelevant book clubs full of stalinist boomers and autists trying to drown their personnal issues in autistic factionalism and endless sperging about Trotskyites infiltrator in, i repeat, the year 2024.
I'd take any LGBT-Trot-Dengist-Eurocom revisionism over that.
>>1808126
>I have no idea what you're talking about. Most trans rights activists you see arent communists, but liberals.
This too, they don't even reclaim themselves from communism the vast majority of the time they're just proud left-liberals, i don't know what OP is sperging about.
>On a materialist note, the reason Trans people (and a lot of gays in the past) have a stake in communism is because they have, for them, of essential importance healthcare requirements
I don't think it have anything to do with healthcare requirement, they were all able to get what they wanted before being included in healthcare coverage in like 2018. Actually before the last 8 years or so most trans people werent even that much on the left, they were mostly leftlib to rightlib, they've just been pushed further on the left because the newly reactionary obsession with them. Gays were also a big far-left/communist demographic before the right-wing stopped caring about them in the mid to late 2010.

>>1808146
>In my country the "no lgbt idpol" communist party (socdem) barely make 2% of the votes on national election despite their leader being invited on TV all the time to talk about shit, meanwhile the "lgbt idpol is ok" communist (socdem) party make 20% of the vote despite all the medias calling them gay-nazi-islamists for not supporting Israel enough.
that just means the 2% party glows hard

Based mods.
Lefitst anti-identity politics comes from re-framing identity oppression as fundamentally born from and reproduced by class society. Particularly with queer identity oppression, it is firmly rooted in gender oppression, meaning that women and queer struggles have a large overlap. Identity oppression exists primarily as classed oppression, meaning that the same mechanisms that are used to oppress queer people are the ones that oppress the proletariat in general and in their particular identities.

Queer Marxism is a powerful facet of Marxist analysis which goes deeper into the reproduction of gender dynamics and it's subsequent ideology both historically and contemporarily. It is a fundamental aspect of a well rounded Marxist together with other disciplines of Marxism, including the closely related Marxist feminism.

>>1808104
>Is there something I'm missing as to why gay and trans issues are so common in the "leftist" discourse?
Quick troubleshooting:
Are you consuming right wing content?

Queer identity and sexual liberation was invented and pushed by bourgeois corporations. In the 21st century, the left has become a mere brand, packaged and sold like any other product.

>On a materialist note, the reason Trans people (and a lot of gays in the past) have a stake in communism is because they have, for them, of essential importance healthcare requirements.
Its because trans and gay liberation movements became huge in the 60s and 70s when radical leftist ideas were very popular with the student movement and counterculture. Iran is one of the leading countries for sex change operations where gender affirming care is offered by the state for free. You don't see trans Islamists anywhere. When queer theory developed, it did so in a radical leftist context and took on a leftist character.

>>1808157
Queer Marxism is retarded. Homophobia, transphobia etc. are not reducible to class politics. Queer Marxists insist that homophobia and transphobia are organic developments of capitalism because our current mode of production necessitates human biological reproduction and queers in that regard are unproductive and hence oppressed to ensure there will always be a big labor pool. This doesn't make a lot of sense when you seriously examine it. All they've done is taken a homophobic narrative "if we let the gays out they'll turn us all gay and humans won't have kids anymore" and twisted it to make it look Marxist. You can also see that today capitalist societies are more than welcoming of queer people and actively promote and market their version of queer culture and values.

In all likelihood, Western society developed a particular dislike of people they deemed sexually abnormal in the 18th century and this cultural value filtered into ideology, and critically, the new fields of medicine, psychiatry, and sexology. There isn't really a class basis for it as such because not everything can be boiled down to class conflict as some retarded dogmatists think. But there is a class element to it. e.g. most of the anti-homosexual crusaders and social reformers were middle class or bourgeois and aimed their heteronormalizing interventions against two groups: poor whites and natives in the colonies. It was always poorer people who were seen as pedophiles, involved in prostitution, and crimes against nature. So there's a class element but its not as if queerphobia is inherently caused by capitalism but is in someway a mechanism of power and means of social regulation.

>>1808152
>muh glowies
Cope

>>1808160
How about I troubleshoot you out of a fucking cannon?

>the real working class who, lets face it, could really give two shits about trans rights and mostly just wants live and let live when it comes to LGBT.
Then why are the anti-idpol communist parties a handful of decrepit, irrelevant boomers

>>1808167
wow you really deboonked him

There is no unified working class opinion on anything, stop talking about it like there is.

>>1808162
>Queer Marxists insist that homophobia and transphobia are organic developments of capitalism because our current mode of production necessitates human biological reproduction and queers in that regard are unproductive and hence oppressed to ensure there will always be a big labor pool.
I'm sure some do. Do you really have no faith in other Marxists as soon as they investigate queerness in society?

If you want to dismiss the oppression of women as some aberration of society unrelated to class society, rather than a result of class society, then maybe you're not a Marxist or you heavily distance yourself from mainstream Marxism?

And as previously mentioned, the issues of queer people basically all over the world are intricately related to gender norms and the heavy penalization of gender nonconformity, which, again, came as the result of class society.

You can't simply brush away all of this.

Further, you admit to the fact that the strong imposition of gender norms on queer people came as a result of modernity and bourgeoise crusaders, ignoring the fact that the impetus behind this heteronormativization was a standardization of the working class, essentially making good, replaceable, functional workers. As you say, the ideology began to see them as aberrations, but aberrations to what? To bourgeoise imposed social norms, that were specifically designed to cater to the new industrial world brought on by modernity.

I wouldn't say I know much of anything, I'll even guess you probably know more than I do about this stuff. Don't you think you're dismissing the issue too quickly without giving it a second thought?

>>1808172
The Communist Party of China is unpopular and only consists of boomers? That’s news to me

>>1808184
China has done a huge fucking deal to protect and advance the rights of queer people.
Get the fuck out of this site, you pathetic vermin.

There are two components to it.

1. You're a retarded poltard. You have no reason to have contempt for gay or other marginalized groups, but the consensus around you is just too strong. You are cattle that goes in the direction your handlers point towards.

2. There are a lot of people who just attach themselves to le epic communist symbols and slogans mindlessly, like polyps. All kinds of retardation come from this kind of people. You are likely one of them, but a lot of people who support gays are the same. They will say all kinds of utterly brainlet bullshit. This is normal, cringe is just an indication that you grew as a person.

>>1808184
You dont care one shred about the CPC except to use it as a verbal cudgel so there is no point to this.

>>1808193
Bingo.
BTW, found an article on the state of LGBT activism in China that isn't bad. It has a critical outlook and an overall fair approach.
https://search.informit.org/doi/epdf/10.3316/informit.015068406184202
Everything else I've seen is essentially "China is authoritarian baby eater" shit.

>>1808104
LGBT and the left are always going to be linked now because it is the go-to boogieman for the right wing to try and push through their fascist ideology. Both the religious right and now even the New Atheism """centrists""" who rant about trans people all the time, as if they're the reason their job sucks, use "protect the kids" rhetoric to push the idea of defunding public schools, so they can put their kids in a school/streaming service that teaches them Rothbardisms like slavery being a good thing for black people and that racism just doesn't exist anymore. Look at the Dailywire or whatever and it's literally all they talk about because they understand that is the only way they can make a connection to Jimbo who lives on social security that the republicans want to cut.

The right wing is way more obsessed with LGBT than the left, as the left just acknowledges they exist and that they deserve the same access to healthcare as everyone else and shouldn't be murdered.

As for your rant about representing the working class, it's called a union.

>>1808196
China has a right to suppress LGBT movement. If I were China I'd be even harsher. We have to stop the invasion of American cultural values into our society.

>>1808244
>hey there fellow kids
Least obvious liberal.
Go back to reddit or /pol/

>>1808279
Its not liberal to protect your society from cultural imperialism and neo-colonialism. LGBT is against Asian values. Its against Confucian values, Taoist values, Buddhist values etc. America pushes this crap to destroy our culture and make us slaves of their culture industry.

>>1808288
>LGBT is against … Buddhist values etc
Again with saying aggressively untrue things with confidence anon.

Political extremism will always be filled with people who are more in touch with their emotional side (so to speak). So you will always have a surplus of poets, theatrics, artists, writers, etc, and since Western culture is more permissive of heterodox sexual expression naturally these avant garde thinkers would also experiment with things like transgenderism, etc. Even Hitler experimented with Vegetarianism!
But the tendency has always been there. Many poets of old have sexual and social tendencies that got them persecuted by the conservative establishment. Agony always bring up creativity, or so they say.
Agree with them or not, you can't just get rid of them. The very fact that you visited an imageboard in the first place is a sign that you crave for something beyond normalcy; and you will naturally find all sorts of reason-defying people in your journey.

>>1808316
You're not making it out of saṃsāra believing in (more precisely: being attached to) made-up shit like "men" or "women"

I’m not even sure if it’s just leftist circles. One of the things I noticed in Uni when I was trying to socialize was how many “LGBTQIA+ Coffee meetups” there were. Which is to say, it always felt like social events were predominantly driven by minority groups no matter how unrelated the event is. You want a bowling night? We’ll make it a Black Students Union bowling night. You want a meet and greet? It’ll be a disabled students meet and greet. Which, I mean, good for them—but if you’re just some straight white guy it seems a little awkward. Every now and then there’d be some smash brothers tournament advertised by some “gaming club”, and that’d be neat, then you show up and you see a bunch of extremely obese dudes with horrible body odor and it seems kind of alienating.

Yknow I think it’s an important thing to support trans peoples’ right to exist. I’ve got trans friends. Lesbian and gay friends, too. One of the gay guys I know is pretty great, him and some buddies jumped some neonazi at a punk show. At the same time however, there’s this risk of watering down a message or movement by making it about everything—not just Marxism, but Veganism, LGBT issues, art, neurodivergent activism, so on. I don’t want to sound rude, but I think it’s acceptable to have a group predominantly for focusing on things like veganism or animal rights, and one predominantly for Marxism—with occasional overlap and support. Something like every Vegan being a Marxist but not every Marxist being a vegan.

I’ve experienced something similar when it comes to, for example, the Black Panthers. I respect them, they’re good Marxists, but there’s a world of difference between a black person wearing a shirt with the Huey Newton on it and some “Aryan” looking fucker like me wearing it. I know plenty of black people who aren’t Marxists but nevertheless idolize the Black Panthers, and if I say I have a lot of respect for them that’s good, but if that respect crosses the line into idolization I worry that you’ll come across like, I dunno, the family in Get Out. Like you’re literally trying to become a Black Person.

Something maybe worth investigating could be the concept of “Affinity Groups”. I know Oswald Mosley did created it for minorities who otherwise supported the British Union of Fascists despite their highly racialized worldview; it was run by an Indian and a Black Man I believe. So maybe you could have a Socialist Party whose primary focus is economics and foreign policy, and then stuff like the “LGBT affinity group” that focuses on issues like trans rights, the “immigrant affinity group” that focuses on issues relating to immigrants, hell maybe even a “rural” or “red neck” affinity group. When the socialist party rallies people to an issue (like Free Palestine) these affinity groups converge as Socialists before all else.

>>1808288
Homophobia was brought to China by the British you fucking moron. Overcoming homophobia means decolonization by your retarded standards.

>>1808327
>then stuff like the “LGBT affinity group” that focuses on issues like trans rights, the “immigrant affinity group”
You're thinking of caucuses. Thats how its usually done in parties, federations, etc. ime.

>>1808292
Its Western brainrot "values" are the reason the left keeps failing. The progressive left is a train wreck. ONLY ASIAN VALUES CAN MAKE SOCIALISM WORK.

>>1808316
>>1808328
>Homophobia was brought to China by the British you fucking moron.
True and LGBT cancer is now brought by America. Conservative values and progressive values exported to corrupt Asian values. Both are as bad as each other. I have zero problems with same-sex stuff. It is part of Asian culture for centuries. No problem. But LGBT cancer and hetero cancer are diseases from the West. I reject the LGBT culture and the homphobic culture for the disease it is.

>>1808339
>muh Asian fuedal and western colonial values are sacred
>muh LGBT is cancer
You're a reactionary, through and through.

You're not only queerphobic, dismissing the primary representation of a marginalized people, you also for some bizarre too-online affliction, worship Asian values with absolutely no justification.

Please don't say you consider yourself a Marxist. What the fuck is your political tendency, besides "disc0rd moron"?

>asian values
In old japan transgender people where more acceptable, since in their culture you were expected to, speaking simply, socialise like how you acted. So seeing a "transgender woman", was more acceptable than a feminine man.
Also monks would do sexual actions with young boys cause having relationships with females was forbidden for them.
Asia in general had a very different view about "LGBT" stuff, and even normalized for some time in the Three Kingdoms period from China, for example, even among emperors, and you cold even argue with some things of the religions to justify.

The huge homophobia and it's alikes just started to get really serious after Westernization