No.1832536
Karna is less of a good and evil moral system and more of a "particle baggage" system. Karma works more like radioactive particles that force your soul to cling to worldly desire more strongly the more you effect the world and allow it to effect you. Eventually karma makes you reincarnate as a result, which is considered a bad thing since it does not provide an escape from samsara.
No.1832538
>>1832531>There was, and still is, a belief in India among many of her ascetics that purification and final deliverance can be achieved by rigorous self-mortification, and the ascetic Gotama decided to test the truth of it. And so there at Uruvelâ he began a determined struggle to subdue his body in the hope that his mind, set free from the shackles of the body, might be able to soar to the heights of liberation. Most zealous was he in these practices. He lived on leaves and roots, on a steadily reduced pittance of food; he wore rags from dust heaps; he slept among corpses or on beds of thorns. The utter paucity of nourishment left him a physical wreck. Says the Master: "Rigorous have I been in my ascetic discipline. Rigorous have I been beyond all others. Like wasted, withered reeds became all my limbs…." In such words as these, in later years, having attained to full enlightenment, did the Buddha give his disciples an awe-inspiring description of his early penances.n8
>Struggling thus for six long years, he came to death’s very door, but he found himself no nearer to his goal. The utter futility of self-mortification became abundantly clear to him by his own experience. He realized that the path to the fruition of his ardent longing lay in the direction of a search inward into his own mind. Undiscouraged, his still active mind searched for new paths to the aspired for goal. He felt, however, that with a body so utterly weakened as his, he could not follow that path with any chance of success. Thus he abandoned self-torture and extreme fasting and took normal food.
>His emaciated body recovered its former health and his exhausted vigour soon returned. Now his five companions left him in their disappointment, for they thought that he had given up the effort and had resumed a life of abundance. Nevertheless, with firm determination and complete faith in his own purity and strength, unaided by any teacher, accompanied by none, the Bodhisatta resolved to make his final effort in complete solitude.
>On the forenoon of the day before his enlightenment while the Bodhisatta was seated in meditation under a banyan tree, Sujâtâ, the daughter of a rich householder, not knowing whether the ascetic was divine or human, offered milk-rice to him saying: "Lord, may your aspirations be crowned with success!" This was his last meal prior to his enlightenment. No.1832543
>>1832536Yeah what he said basically.
Not Buddhism but Vedanta teaches pretty much the same thing about karma.
No.1832570
>>1832543The obstructions to Yoga are killing etc.,whether committed, caused, or approved; either through avarice, or anger, or ignorance; whether slight, middling, or great, and result is innumerable ignorances and miseries. This is (the method of) thinking the contrary.> If I tell I lie, or cause another to tell a lie, or approve of another doing so, it is equally sinful. If it is a very mild lie, it is still a lie. Every vicious thought will rebound, every thought of hatred which you have thought, in a cave even, is stored up, and will one day come back to you with tremendous power in the form of some misery here. If you project all sorts of hatred and jealousy, they will rebound on you with compound interest. No power can avert them; when once you have put them in motion you will have to bear them. Remembering this, will prevent you from doing wicked things.So you could think of Karma as the "golden rule," but with cosmic retribution being the outcome. So why is something objectively bad? Because you wouldn't want someone doing that to you. It's a very easy logic to follow.
But it gets more advanced than that because the goal is to be free from karma entirely.
Works are neither black nor white for the Yogis; for others they are threefold, black, white, and mixed.
>When the Yogi has attained to that state of perfection, the actions of that man, and the Karma produced by those actions, will not bind him, because he did not desire them. He just works on: he works to do ood, and he does good, but does not care for the result, and it will not come to him. But for ordinary men, who have not attained to that highest state, works are of three kind, black (evil actions), white (good actions), and mixed. No.1832571
>>1832570So like the Santa Claus song, just be "good for goodness sake!" Is the ultimate goal.
No.1832617
>>1832536but how can you determine if rebirth is bad with no objective moral system?
No.1832620
>>1832617Dark souls is a depiction of a buddhist-style hell and does a pretty good job explaining why you wouldnt want to reincarnate but thats just my opinion. Worked for me though
Ive only ever been to a buddhist temple once so im not an expert on it
No.1832633
>>1832620but that doesnt make it objectively bad? I mean its bad for you but in the scheme of the universe its just part of samsara or whatever and it ultimately doesnt matter since you will be reborn again anyway
No.1832635
>>1832531buddhism is just nihilism lol
No.1832641
>>1832617>>1832633Well I can once again only speak on Vedanta, but you just liberate yourself, because you have to eventually anyways. Don't think there is really supposed to be much of a point to it other than it is the inevitable outcome you will have to go towards eventually. All of creation will reach liberation and then a new creation will be born and we will be slaves to Maya yet again. Cyclical universe.
I can't pinpoint what Buddhist believe other than they will be able to annihilate themselves for good I guess. I think cyclical makes more sense. No need for endings, no need for beginnings. Infinity.
No.1832644
>>1832641Actually they have a similar concept to Buddhism, but they also believe in a cyclical universe, so I guess you could say being free of reincarnation is like finishing your classwork early and then you get to sit around and twiddle your thumbs while the rest of the class finishes their's. Then class is over and it's on to a new day and a new assignment anyways. At least that's my understanding.
No.1832645
>>1832641Buddhists believe in eons, and gods are just extremely powerful people that reached the highest part of the ladder and are doomed to eventually fall again as time withers their empires away and drains their vitality. Hindus believe in yugas which is pretty much the concept of ages which are differentiated in their effects and the enjoyment or lack thereof by the people living within the cycle of samsara. Therefore even gods are incentivized to attempt to escape the cycle but are cursed to remain within it until their karma is eroded either by force or through patience and endurance.
No.1832646
>>1832641Actually they have a similar concept to Buddhism, but they also believe in a cyclical universe, so I guess you could say being free of reincarnation is like finishing your classwork early and then you get to sit around and twiddle your thumbs while the rest of the class finishes their's. Then class is over and it's on to a new day and a new assignment anyways. At least that's my understanding.
No.1832652
>>1832645>Buddhists believe in eons, and gods are just extremely powerful people that reached the highest part of the ladder and are doomed to eventually fall again as time withers their empires away and drains their vitality. That's exactly what the Vedanta belief is.
>Hindus believe in yugas which is pretty much the concept of ages which are differentiated in their effects and the enjoyment or lack thereof by the people living within the cycle of samsara. Only some of them mention it. Only one I've ever seen mention it was Sri Yukteswar Giri. It's just a concept of like a general climate, doesn't mean that individuals can't overcome the yuga to attain any state.
>Therefore even gods are incentivized to attempt to escape the cycle but are cursed to remain within it until their karma is eroded either by force or through patience and endurance.They say that gods/those on the heavenly plains must return to an Earth incarnation and it's only from an Earthly incarnation that liberation can be achieved. They say that the beings that incarnate into higher realms are those who fell off the path basically.
The Yogi should not feel allured or flattered by the overtures of celestial beings, for fear of evil again.
>There are other dangers too; gods and other beings come to tempt the Yogi. They do not want anyone to be perfectly free. They are jealous, just as we are, and worse than we sometimes. They are very much afraid of losing their places. Those Yogis who do not reach perfection die and become gods; leaving the direct road they go into one of the side streets, and get these powers. Then again they have to be born; but he who is strong enough to withstand these temptations, and go straight to the goal, become No.1832693
>>1832617Suffering is inherent to life, if you learn to let go of worldly things you stop the cycle of rebirth which is the engine of suffering
No.1832700
>>1832541>Makes confucianism and daoisn obsolete Taoism is just Daoisn spelled differently though?
No.1832708
>>1832700>Taoism is just Daoism spelled differently You're right but I think in this context they meant the philisophical branch of Daoism. Idk I didn't make this
No.1832746
Zizek has multiple lectures on Buddhism that are critical of it, but he's considered cringe these days (rightfully). One of the points he brings up is that if you let go of your sense of attachment and self, then you can rationalize your actions as just the randomness of the universe and causality, absolving yourself of any responsibility for your actions, making it easier to do things you would normally find objectionable.
I think the bigger point with religious criticism is that religion is always purposefully vague. You can interpret it to mean whatever benefits you, and it's like that by design.
No.1832755
>>1832746Yuh see here is the problem. All of these people like Zizek are talking out of their ass. We call things ESP or maybe we could call it ECP Extra consciousness perception. Either way the crux of it is the extra. We all know what it means to have an ordinary perception. There is nothing to be learned from retards going "look how ordinary I am and how ordinary my perception of things is." Yeah I already passed through your ordinary perceptions on the way to extra perceptions, nothing you can teach me. Maybe you should try and learn instead.
On a side/related note. Fucking statistical science. "statistically people can't do X" Statistically people can't make shots from half-court you fucking tards. Statistically some people can beat the statistics of the average tard and that's why we pay these rare specimens millions of dollars. Just because the average dick can't do something doesn't make it impossible.
No.1832894
buddhism is idealist
No.1832942
>>1832617Reincarnation is real on a materialist level, and I doubt even Buddha made it out.
No.1832981
>>1832693Yeah but so is happiness lol. If I suffered 99% of the time I would understand but my life isn't tainted by suffering alone. I feel Buddhism is basically ment to appeal to oppressed slave classes who hate their lives.
No.1833056
science says that you don't have to worry about self-annihilation, because it will happen anyway.
and you don't have to worry about reincarnation or cyclical universe because the universe will die as well. forever.
and even if the universe restarts, whatever happens in that new universe will have no causal connection to anything in the current one
No.1833252
>>1833056plsssssss read ilyenkov
No.1833473
>>1832531You can be a leftist and a Buddhist and there is a long tradition of such a combination.
That said, I used to be very interested in Buddhist teaching up until I learnt about how apparently the human Buddha had superpowers that let him teleport, go invisible, walk through walls etc.
And while secular liberal western converts might ignore such teachings, if you go on Buddhist internet sites they'll all scream at you and say you're a fake western LARPer if you don't believe Buddha literally had superman powers.
r/Buddhism is particular cancerous (unsurprisingly for Reddit), the people there believe you have to take every story about the Buddha doing supernatural things as literally true or you're just another fake Buddhist.
Buddha himself said to disregard any teachings about him that don't make sense however, and the Dalai Lama said that he's a Marxist economically but he's anti-CPC because from his POV China is an imperialist coloniser that wishes to ethnically replace Tibetans and who doesn't actually care for socialism.
I can't imagine the degree of seethe such a statement would make on this board and I half expect the Tankie mods will ban me merely for repeating his words.
No.1833483
>>1832531I'm not a big fan of many of the extremes of Buddhist philisophy and AFAIK most sects are anti-materialist to the core.
But what in the goddamn is that header image?
You only need to take a cursory example at some Buddhist teachings to read about how different parts of souls reincarnate in new combinations.
Not to mention that wojak ragecomics are played out and aesthetically unpleasing.
I guess you got a reply though, if you're the kind of person who collects those.
No.1833490
>>1833473Well once againI can only speak about Vedanta, but the overwhelming message is think for your fucking self.
You are trapped in the mindset of authority figures. Eastern buddhists have more authority than western, Dalai Lamas and all that gay shit. That's why I don't fuck with buddhism is they seem like they take the teachings of Vedant and make it extra spooky.
No.1833505
>>1833483I'm praying for the day wojaks are mocked the way "doggo" and harry potter are
No.1833540
Reincarnation could make sense in a materialist perspective if the multiverse theory is true, if there's infinite multiverse then there should be infinite minds of "you" spread across them, and if your mind exists in at least one of them, then your consciousness should be present and living there, so that when you die in this lifetime you would simply start living again in one of those worlds.
There's another variation where the math requires that so long as there's a none-zero chance for your current existence to continue, it mathematically must, so for each living being, from their own perspective, they can't die until the probability of them dying reaches 100% and they're trapped living in whichever worldline ensures them the longest life expectancy possible for them.
Of course, these are all highly speculative theories. But for the meantime the math for them works and hasn't been disproven.
No.1833559
>>1833540I'm kind of interested in the panpsychist theory that the quirks of fundamental particles are the most rudimentary form of consciousness in the universe. Maybe the buddhist 8 soul pieces theory is just off by a power of ten quadrillion billions etcetera
No.1834216
>>1834034>>1834034So Buddhism is just a psyop to get peseants and slaves to stop protesting?
Kinda makes sense since Buddha was actually a high caste prince who lived a lavish life before the undertaking ascetism.
No.1834373
>>1834216In its original context Buddhism can be interpreted as a reform movement that tried "override" the caste system by positing a universal path to enlightement instead of Hinduism, the tradition where everyone is placed in a spiritually defined hierarchy which for some reason maps onto real world class hierarchies quite well and where the best thing one can do is to perform the role they were given by fate the best they can and hope that their next reincarnation will be something better.
Whatever was the end goal of Gautama in changing Hindu society, it utterly failed, even despite Buddhist emperors existing in India at certain points in time. The only Buddhists that currently live in India are either Tibetan Buddhists and a quasi-political movement that reinterpreted Buddhism as a Dalit liberationist doctrine (Navayana) in the late 20th century. Both groups are few in number. The reason why something similar to the latter hasn't been able to sweep through India for thousands of years is because Buddhism in the Indian cultural context (Theravada) has kept itself to arguing that there is a higher truth beyond Hindu customs and rituals without displacing them and agreed with Hinduism in that one's main goal should be seeking personal enlightement. After Islam appeared in India, it quickly proved itself to be the most formidable opponent the caste system due to its intolerance, warlike nature and easy to adopt customs that create a strong identity among believers. Therefore Dalits who wanted to escape the caste system usually chose Islam over other religions. Buddhism has only really been successful outside India where it served as vehicle for exporting the most basic beliefs of Hinduism like reincarnation without all the gods and such.
No.1834399
>>1832531If I remember correctly buddhism is about breaking off karmic system not embrace it whether it gives you positive or negative result, anti-derterminism, freedom to choose, effort, and knowledge If Siddhartha believed Brahmins he should be king of king instead of Buddha, because his white karma pushing him to that way, but in the he was free from all the karmas whether bad, and good.
No.1834808
>>1834373>>1834399>>1833473Yes, I think now we are at the heart of it. I don't know much about Buddhism but that's why I posted "No Religion". Buddha was just a man.
The Bodhi tree is just like the apple hitting Newton on his noggin or whatever it was.
No.1834861
>>1834813Have you considered that while Tibet was a horrible absolute theocracy before the Communist Party took over, the way the CPC has ran it since is also very fucked up and almost just as bad?
The ongoing incentivised colonisation of Tibet by Han Chinese (most of the Han in Tibet see the local Tibetans as an inferior race than them, and want to build a big McDonalds on top of Lhasa Palace), destruction of ancient historical and cultural sites, restrictions on use of Tibetan language.
There is nothing Marxist about rich giga-capitalist hipsters from Shanghai kicking out Tibetans to buy a holiday home in Lhasa with Daddy's money.
In other words, old system bad =/= new system good. It's important to point out bad rulership, regardless of whether it is the fault of theocratic monks using slave labour 80 years ago, but especially so if those responsible claim to represent Socialism but engage in actions that are clearly objectionable.
No.1834871
>>1834861>Have you considered that<glowie screechingHeard it all before, your holiness
No.1834879
>>1834861>restrictions on use of Tibetan language96% of tibetans speak their ethnic language, retard
No.1834882
>>1834879Why so they always come after China's policy towards minorities? Is it just white guilt projection appealing to braindead "progressives"? Or are we maybe getting Atlantic Council glowbots seething about their busted Balkanization fantasies?
No.1834888
>>1834373Damn that pretty much nutshells it I completely glazed over this one GOOD comment
No.1834889
>>1834882The massive amount of western funding into international campaigns such as Tibet.
I think it's fair as someone not interested in a side in the discourse to say the only reason any of us know anything about Tibet and its permeation into modern society is because of being a perceived tension point by the US Intel apparatus against the China
No.1834891
>>1834889If you're not interested in a side in the discourse but the discourse you're passively referencing still consists of OT1H Dalai Lama bring back feudalism and OTOH China is doing a colonialism by building apartment buildings in place of a collection of wooden single family residences spread out horizontally, all I'm gonna say is that's very 2010, like the melamine milk scandal or air pollution, but instead it's trashing a good thing. Similar to the Uyghur genocide.
Definitely state dept. funding but I feel like with the Eastern cults psyop I'm not getting the full story.
The Dalai Lama is a creepy ass dude, I blame his organization for getting kids to burn themselves alive the same way I blame the US military for pushing Aaron Bushnell and the girl who, because she didn't tape her death, I can't even remember the name of, from a few weeks prior.
No.1834895
>>1834891 (Me)
I feel like every time I hear about a transcendental meditation or whatever org on the west coast or see a flier for it, it turns out to have had a sex trafficking scandal and glow brightly
No.1834945
>>1832531Buddhism is theist they just call the void God, because it's totally empty of all conceptions due to being utterly transcendent and simultaneously immanent, so rather than ascribe attributes to it they rather say what is not 'neti neti'. In theology this approach to God is called apophaticism.
No.1835286
>>1834861>Han Chinese (most of the Han in Tibet see the local Tibetans as an inferior race than them, and want to build a big McDonalds on top of Lhasa Palace)No, they don't. And that's a racist as fuck assertion, cracker retard.
No.1835650
The point is not to self-annihilate, the point is to get rid of suffering in this very life. Nibbana isn't even nonexistence, it is beyond our conception of existence/nonexistence
No.1835651
>>1835650No evidence that such thing exists.
The enlightenment meme in Buddhism is just the abrahamic equivalent of prophets receiving divine revelation but only them
No.1835657
>>1835651the point of enlightenment is that anyone can attain it, i don't really like calling it enlightenment honestly
No.1835665
>>1835657Enlightenment just sounds like traditional ego death. Imagine creating an entire religion just because some dude tripped balls once
No.1835685
>>1835665more like ego death sounds like enlightenment, stress on "like"
No.1836297
>>1836065The message of every serious spiritual tradition is that is that the politics of the world don't matter at all. Christianity, taoism, hinduism, buddhism. It is unfair to try and judge them by every random asshole who clames affiliation just as it is unfair to judge communism by evry random asshole who flies a hammer and aickle.
No.1836893
>>1835665What do you think ego death entails lol
No.1837079
>>1837077There's your problem.
No.1837590
The synthesis of most Abrahamic religions with socialism is much more likely to be productive and justifiable, due to the basic sense of equality of all humanity implicitly stated and other important factors, than the attempt to hold up reincarnation fixated religions in which society's poorer peoples are said to be ontologically inferior, because of their social status or certain caste.
No.1837599
>>1836065They were counter revolutionary because the clerics were addicted to statism and the favours they received, people seem to forget that Russia virtually skipped over a mode of production.
No.1837695
I would like it if there were some kind of afterlife, or righteous karma, or reincarnation, or enlightenment.
I don't think it's unusual to not want death to be the end.
The issue is conflating what we want with what is real, or deluding yourself into believing what you want is actually true.
My life is particularly miserable and shitty, plus I was raised in a strictly religious environment and that does things to your brain that make it harder to be atheistic or accept a materialistic worldview regardless of clear evidence.
I've done psychedelics that made me see and feel and experience things that can't be described and would take an essay to get close to.
Does that mean the supernatural is real? No. It's up to me to understand that it's all in my brain, or how I was raised, or just lies which would be nice if it were true. And often that's hard if you aren't raised secular.
What helps me is when I do fall into looking at something through a supernatural lense, then eventually someone says something so silly it will snap me out of it again.
For an example I was looking at a Buddhist forum, and there was a topic about what to do if bugs infest your house.
The response users gave? You can't do anything to stop them. Put a spider in your house to deal with them for you, let that spider take the karmic damage. Or repeat a mantra 100 times to each fly before you swat it.
It's that kinda schizo stuff that all these people believe but you don't hear about at face value that reminds me how it's all bs.
This isn't to say religious people can't be good people, can't be leftists, can't do good, of course they can I'm not suggesting otherwise.
It's not helpful to mock those who share our political beliefs by and large but belong to some religion.
But ultimately we can't know anything about what is after death and to suggest otherwise is just playing into fantastical wishes, and we need to build a world on the rules of material reality, not on fantastical and supernatural elements.
No.1837903
>>1837695>Put a spider in your house to deal with them for you, let that spiderhave a roof over their head and fresh meals.
This makes sense.
No.1837970
>>1837910
I'd like to read more about this? I thought zen Buddhism was a long historic tradition caused by syncretism with Shinto and Mahayana Buddhism
No.1837972
>>1837910
Mindfulness is pretty nice tho.
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