No.1812552
socialism historically had periods of recession and advance
this too shall pass
>>1794280>immiseration produces class consciousnessneck yourself
>>1794290a degenerated workers state is still a workers state
No.1812890
>>1794290Eat your lasagna
No.1812897
>>1812326<the ansynd sectarianism autistic is backBoooo..
>is a testament to the waning influence of MarxismAs detached from reality as always. Both movements contain and are externally supported by many Marxists.
No.1813130
>>1812897whats up with you black flag anon, you consistently seem to me to be nothing but a marxist lackey left unity psyop
do better comrade, do better
No.1813239
>>1811680I'm not well versed with Sankarists and Pan Africanism. Is the guy for or against the capitalist class
No.1813249
>>1813239They're certainly against the French and American ones actively fucking them over in this moment
No.1813250
>>1813249It's something at least
No.1813251
>>1813130It's easy to have your nonsense 'politics' when they only exist to fashion an identity around on the internet in a very transparent act for superiority.
Try existing for something and actually doing politics instead of being content in this fbi.gov child subculture you think is politics.
No.1813371
islamo-marxism is the future (pflp-hamas synthesis). post-marxist cyber occultist anarchism. mainstream lefties are tired old normalfags living in the 1800s. thats why they get easily rolled by neolibs and rightoid guenonfags. they left samurai culture and buddhism and shintoism to the ultra nationalists instead of mixing with it themselves and now the japanese commies are dying off like jews in a concentration camp. why haz so popualr? because hes unhinged. we need mysticism. we need messianism. we need spiritual sex gnosis. we need a god or some kind of god. post-modern cyber god.
No.1813377
>>1813371Leftypol finally does some dialectical materialism, let's gooo 🗣️🗣️🗣️
No.1813380
>>1813371You need an actual plan for a project that will actually work. No more excuses,
No.1813387
>>1813371>>1813371>islamo-marxismso a red theocracy, sounds retarded
>post-marxist cyber occultist anarchismelaborate
> we need mysticism. we need messianism. we need spiritual sex gnosis. we need a god or some kind of god. post-modern cyber god.fairytales in fedoras
>>1813385whats your idea then?
No.1813388
>>1813329anarkiddies are retarded stfu
(Average Glownonymous Sectarianism) No.1813393
>>1813387>whats your idea then?Exactly, therein lies the debate. Nobody has put forth a project we all agree on, therefore ideas like 'organization' are meaningless.
No.1813395
>>1813393>Nobody has put forth a projectA 'programme' to use the Marxist term.
No.1813396
There is hundreds of thousands of books justfying so many things, including all those ideal projects, ideas, etc. It would be easier if people actually readed things they dislike so much, and made serious analyzes about them, instead of just saying random biased opinions.
But then again, this is a casual imageboard. There is no consensus, nor a plan, nor anywhere to go. We will need to change the world the hard way
No.1813404
>>1813403Like did they keep track of their stage of Socialism on the road to communism or whatever? Is there a graph of their Socialism stage by year?
No.1813477
>>1813251ah yes my nonsense and completely unfounded belief that Marxism and Anarchism are inherently hostile to each other. Wherever could I have gotten THAT idea, please ignore Marxist hostilities occurring in 1872, 1917, 1931, and 1936, as well as any and all Marxist repression of Anarchists in territories under their control.
This is of course as opposed to your rational and level-headed view that we will all live harmoniously and happily with our Marxist 'comrades', contrary to the mountains of evidence suggesting (to put it lightly) otherwise.
No.1813510
>>1813329> even if the ussr were to still exist today just like the chins it would have been barely proactive if it were at allussr was retarded but atleast had more principles though
No.1814054
I think that the fall of Communist States, especially the USSR has blackpilled many people on future prospects. Still Socialism itself remains popular among the youths in the West, so there is hope in pushing the Overton Window majorly to the left in the next 20 years.
No.1814059
>>1814054>Still Socialism itself remains popular among the youths in the Westthis is overestimated
No.1814062
>>1814054I think many people are mistaking liberalism with socialism. They really though a guy like Biden was left lmao
No.1814064
>>1813477That was centuries ago. Its time to end this religious crusade and just accept our eternal differences in mutual respect.
No.1814065
>>1814054I think one of the biggest impediments towards socialism developing at this stage is that socialists haven't been able to articulate a hopeful vision of the future to strive for. It's able to correctly identify what's wrong and how to fix it, but the prevailing capitalist view that the future will just be a slightly better version of now hasn't been displaced.
No.1814076
>>1814062I think the youths only vote for Biden because he is not the orange man. If voters had an actual say in the nomination, Bernie would've won.
>>1814065Luckily capitalism is discrediting itself. Very few people believe in "trickle down economics", and other wishful concepts. We really need new Das Kapital/Communist Manifesto level of books for modern times.
No.1814081
>>1813477there were anarchist and tolstoyan communes in the ussr but they didn't want to be encorporated into an economic plan and had to be liquidated for soviet power to actually productively continue the class struggle.
No.1814088
There's a big chance of communism making a comeback in the West if the communists actually stopped worshipping revolutions that had to adapt to concrete historical reality (autocracy, colonialism, massive peasant population and proletarian minority) and actually studied the Paris Commune and the concrete steps in took and those it didn't - a synthesis between Communardism and Leninism, if you will. But we'd all rather LARP bolsheviks instead. It's simply much easier.
No.1814089
>>1814076Most people are very retarded and reactionary without firm beliefs see how many still want to do for Biden despite him having over 40.000 confirmed deaths on his shoulder just in Gaza alone. Bernie is a shitlib zionist who sold out like Biden and they don't care. People only hear "free healthcare" and "tax le billionaire by a few more percent" as if that would remove the issue of everyone inside and out getting fucked by imperial power that is the US.
No.1814091
>>1814076Yeah, it's discrediting itself, and while I think that is creating some of the cracks that are allowing socialist optimism to trickle through, I don't think that's enough.
I think part of what made socialism so popular in the 19th and 20th centuries was that the trapping of its success were very material and readily apparent. For most people access to education and simple things like electricity were unattainable luxuries, and when socialists were able to provide them that's something very concrete to point to.
The same thing doesn't really apply any more, at least in the West where material abundance is everywhere, for all the good it does. The Bolsheviks were able to propose and produce a really radical new society, but so far I don't think that vision has materialized among the modern Communists.
No.1814092
>>1814091>The same thing doesn't really apply any more, at least in the West where material abundance is everywhereYes, and till communist have a wicked stalinist understanding of what socialism is (it's not linear growth of productive forces + linear growth of wages) we won't budge from our deadlock. Socialism is the abolition of alienation.
No.1814096
>>1814089If the system allows a change it's not a threat to it.
>>1814091Many things taken for granted by "boomers" are now out of reach for the youth. If even 1 country becomes socialist and is able to provide these goods/services, then it will gain legitimacy. For some reason China doesn't have this effect.
No.1814273
>>1814088>There's a big chance of communism making a comeback in the West if the communists actually stopped worshipping revolutions that had to adapt to concrete historical reality You have to realize that the Russian Revolution will always be brought up and it is not worshipping to defend the overwhelming positive that came from it. We still have ML states like Cuba as well. Also the majority of communists in the west are euro-communist who condemn the Soviet experience. So the strategy that you are talking about has already been tried. Guess what our opponents are always going to say that we killed millions or mass starvation like Venezuela and the like. It's up to us to take from the past and to give a vision for the future.
No.1814434
>>1814273>the strategy that you are talking about has already been triedWhen? Where? Which organization took in its programme the demands of the Commune? Which organization took Iskra's organizatory plan and applied it to its own circumstances? Where's the autocracy in the West? Where are the colonial powers exploiting the people? Where are the competing warlords? Where's the civil war? Where are the worker's soviets?
Do you even realize how ridiculous you sound? Nothing in the west has been tried sans a lowly combination of narodnaya-volya-ist terrorism + the worship of intellectual individualism.
By revolutionary worship I mean exactly what you just did -
Marxism-Leninism is the religious dogma rigid stalinists love to push around thinking that there's a one-size-fits-all approach to revolution.
<b-but ML is a method not a dogm-shut the fuck up and read the early organizational texts of the RSDLP (
including Stalin) instead of thinking that degenerate state building ideologies are our shining path to communism.
No.1814445
>>1814434>>1814273anarchy mogs coommunists every time
No.1814529
>>1814222>>1814219tyranny of aesthetics
No.1814780
Being an honest person in America is a death sentence
No.1814782
>>1814780Being honest is a euphemism for being stupid and naive
No.1814798
>>1814445Mogged in being infantile
No.1814805
>>1814782being stupid and naive person in America is a death sentence
No.1814831
>>1814434>Which organization took in its programme the demands of the Commune? Most socialist organizations have the demands of the Commune.
>Which organization took Iskra's organizatory plan and applied it to its own circumstances?A handful of socialist in their own countries material conditions yet there seems to be no success. This was tried in the 20th century with the IWW and the CPUSA's Bill of Rights socialism. Those two are just the icing on the cake.Thats what I mean when I say your strategy isn't unique because they already were tried and not successful. There are multiple reasons why there is no success but communist "worshipping" previous revolutions are not the reason.
>Where's the autocracy in the West? Do you believe that the West has no authoritarian tendencies
>Do you even realize how ridiculous you sound? Nothing in the west has been tried sans a lowly combination of narodnaya-volya-ist terrorism + the worship of intellectual individualism. I can say that you sound ridiculous by saying that communism will make a comeback if they:
>actually stopped worshipping revolutions that had to adapt to concrete historical reality That is not why communism is not successful in the west. You are literally one step away from saying "not real socialism" which already makes people skeptical of you when you say "My socialism will work unlike the red tsarists". Now bringing a photo of Lenin in Chicago is larpy but it's another level if you condemn that revolution.
>By revolutionary worship I mean exactly what you just did - Marxism-Leninism is the religious dogma rigid stalinists love to push around thinking that there's a one-size-fits-all approach to revolution.Reread the post.Where did I say that Marxism-Leninism is a one size fits all? I am simply saying that those socialist revolutions will be brought up and you should talk about the overwhelming positive that came from the experience. There were mistakes but they were minor compared to the positives it gave. There is an anarchist in these threads that defends Marxist Leninist states and can say that the US won't have an ML revolution which is solid and understandable. Socialism will look different in countries with differing conditions
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