No.1794279
I think by the end of our lives we'll see a decent number of parties around the world regain some solid social support. We're definitely not gonna be anywhere near notable for the next few decades though.
No.1794280
immiseration produces class consciousness the same way education produces secularism. The problem is that Marx figured the proletariat needed both secularism and class consciousness to really succeed. But the problem is, people become more religious as they become more miserable, because they need the copium, and they become less class conscious the more educated they get, because they get access to higher paying jobs and upper class social networks (even if they dont' become bourgeois). We need a social superstructure that both educates and immiserates simultaneously. But part of immiseration is the deprivation of education. So you have a paradox. immiseration makes the proletariat a wild animal willing to tear apart the bourgeoisie to survive, but once they do so, they just become party bureaucrats. Even with reactionary insurgents like the taliban, you see this. Many of them became miserable bureaucrats in kabul after the americans left.
No.1794281
Peru communist elected president. Cope and seethe, we won the elections
No.1794286
>Realistically speaking, what are the chances of a communist revival?
Very good.
>Looking at communist parties worldwide they don't tend to have much support
Communist parties don't tend to gain mass support until the government and economy is literally on the verge of complete collapse. Even then, it's still always only a minority of the more advanced workers who are actually affiliated with the communist parties. That really gets to the crux of Marxism actually: Communism as a real political force emerges out of necessity, not ideological popularity.
No.1794289
>>1794264If you talk in general terms, communism never went away as there is China, Vietnam and others still around.
If you talk about Soviet Union, then it's a story of empire-republic just like in the case of France. While USSR managed to prevent Bonapartism, i.e. a military dictatorship restoring feudalism to some degree, it failed to prevent the return to bourgeois republic. Since 1953 Russia is getting thrown around the path of coups just like France was, and communism will prevail in the end just like capitalism has prevailed in France.
No.1794290
>>1794289>If you talk in general terms, communism never went away as there is China, Vietnam and others still around. Shut the fuck up
No.1794291
Communism was ahead of its time but literarily.
If you liberate the worker then who does the work?
It's meant for a post work society
No.1794292
>>1794290Was about to say something about that lol.
No.1794294
>>1794290>nooooo I want to believe in American total victory(((Grow up. China never went away and never changed it's communist system
No.1794297
I grew up right in the neoliberal maxima. People are infinitely more marxpilled today (especially since 2008 collapse).
Communism is back on the menu boys.
No.1794303
>>1794297I don't know where that might be certainly not anywhere in the American continent…
No.1794304
Next revolutionary wave is probably starting in Africa, EFF might get elected, Swaziland's monarchy might get overthrown, Socialist party of Zambia is the fastest growing political party there
No.1794306
>>1794300Israel was the first country to recognize PRC for better and for worse
No.1794313
>>1794300Geopolitical relationships are weird most of the time.
No.1794317
>>1794306no it wasnt, it wasnt even close to be among the first, wtf is that shit claim
No.1794319
>>1794303Your unions are coming back. That's absolutely huge.
No.1794320
How the hell are you so fucking confident when Europe is filled with far-right people, with their zoomers saying they are saying they want more neoliberal reforms, hate migrants and third worlders in general and shit?
No.1794324
>>1794320Immigrants are one of the main subjects of revolution. Organise them.
No.1794328
>>1794303This is probably an age thing. I don't think you grasp or realize just how absurdly right wing America was as a country in the 90s and the early-mid 2000s. We've practically had our own Cultural Revolution compared to then.
No.1794351
>When?
2024-05-23 7:22pm
No.1794363
>>1794264I'm of the opinion, which seems to be more Engelian than Marxian, that communistic tendencies will organically and unconsciously "evolve" from the outplay of material conditions rather than be inorganically and unconsciously "forced" by a revolutionary consciousness. I stand by the thesis that the most advanced capitalist polarities will self-contradict and inadvertently give rise to communism. Marx and Engels often disagreed about when this will or should happen, with Marx favoring the forceful, immediate approach, but they both agreed that it will happen eventually. Just see how AI plays out. I've taken my bets.
No.1794364
>>1794320Limiting immigration to protect your own workers is a corner stone of socialist policy.
No.1794367
>>1794363Star Trek economics basically. It's not often emphasized that Star Trek basically has a communistic economy. The only form of currency that exists in Star Trek is "energy credits", there is some financial regulation on how much energy can be used, as that is ultimately the most fundamental resource. Everything else can be 3D printed or whatever.
No.1794386
>>1794289Not even cringe, just sad at this point
No.1794410
>>1794264100%. People are very much waking up. The only issue is whether there will be actual consistently proletarian parties, like the Bolsheviks, or will all parties be overtaken by revisionism of different stripes. The balance wasn't in favor of Marxism last time.
>>1794310You are a clown.
No.1794413
People often say that our choices are socialism or barbarism. I think it conveys our choices, but misconstrues the way that it has to play out. Call me a doomer but especially in the West I believe reaction will win, they have everything, we have nothing. They will consolidate thier positions in the class war, before we can even really begin the class struggle. Hears what we have to consider going forward. I think that is what the class struggle looks like, once blatant reaction is impacted.
I think it's very naive quite frankly, to think we can skip the barbarism of reaction. Will just give a good pitch and bam the people will stand in front of fascism before it starts. The bourgeoisie have the minds of the proletariat in cages.
TOTAL SUPERSTRUCTURAL DOMINANCE This gets to that other anons immiseration thread. I think is more about function, can capitalism function. It's important to remember that fascism is still capitalism nothing about the falling rate of profit… Changes.
With all this in mind we have to understand that capitalism does have a death date. It being the systems representation of the living being of capital is a mortal being. Fascism is the acceleration of that mortal beings death. In the past conquest and war brought live back to a dying being. Since then that being has aged what saved it then can't be done again.
We won't see an inter-imperialist war…….. that ends in a re-establishment of a lasting* global hegemon. We won't see the post war boom and the climate crisis guarantees that. Essentially this is reaction/capitals last escapade. We need it to complete its death so the rebirth can commence. It's not about acceleration/immiseration like we can even manipulate capital to quicken it's demise, it's about the dialectical materialism of capitalism undoing it's ability to continue functioning. Before 2100 I believe the ending credits of capitalism will roll. Once it can't function after* reaction humanity will literally have no other choice then communism or continue a bronze age warlord existence.
No.1794414
>>1794363I think your view aligns very well with my view here
>>1794413 No.1794458
>>1794413I think this site in general is historically stuck in the time of the Weimar Republic. The fascist today are of different stripe than they were back then. In the past, they had some leeway in terms taking action, being mostly made-up of former soldiers and/or the petty-boug.
Today? They are a) 100% product of the bourgouise, with the petties firmly behind them. Any open fascist party will go the way Melanis party in Italy go: Make live miserable for everyone, but according to the blueprints of neoliberalism. And a way, a scenario identical to say, Nazi Germany, is unlikely.
BUT, and this is the cause for worry, is the second part. Namely after WW2, a synthesis happened between Liberalism and Fascism, caused by the survival of the eastern communist block, enforced by American Liberalism. How they did so as been discussed often enough. Adorno, as much of a an anticommunist hack he is, correctly said that "[he] fears the Fascism WITHIN [Liberal] Democracy more than the Fascism against Democracy".
In fact, the situation we are in resembles the situation in Germany post-unification. The vehement anti-enlightenment of Prussia, the german liberals fear of a potential socialist revolution, caused the monarchy to survive in way that wasn't possible even for the british monarchy. However, history couldn't be stopped, and capitalism destroyed the gains the nobility were able to secure for themselves, and, this is where we segue into today, devolved into religious fundamentalism and protofascism, which carried into the Weimar Republic.
Liberalism nowadays is degenerating the same way like the monarchists did pre-WW1, the unsurmountable contradictions finally crushing them under their own weight, and will make Liberals (active adherents, not people passively absorbing Liberalism) go the same way Conservatives have been going for decades now. (And I am confident that China being able to contain their bourgs, at least for the time being, is cause of this). And right-parties like, say, AFD in Germany won't change much (hell, while libs were protesting against them for planning to deport immigrants and immigrant-born people, the ruling parties where drafting rulings 75% identical to what the AFD was meeting about… an libs gave ZERO fucks).
My view is similar to this guy
>>1794413, we won't be seeing us making progress soon, but this time, capitalism has not only barely room to run, but has decayed the West to such a degree that, unless they actually start dropping nukes, they won't be able to maintain war-efforts
like they did in the past. No matter the result, WW3 will be a farce. Will we survive it? I hope.
No.1794473
>>1794458>Will we survive it? I hope.sticking your dick in
No.1794484
>>1794280>Even with reactionary insurgents like the taliban, you see this. Many of them became miserable bureaucrats in kabul after the americans left.that was, to be honest, pretty funny.
No.1794485
For the first time, the amount of peasants in the world are lower then proletarians, and in the west more and more are falling into the urbanite poor. Go to any city,to see how many people live right next to the factories/distribution center/etc they work. What made the proletariat the most revolutionary class in Marx's view was it was often congregated in a single location. Those conditions are being recreated across the world.
Climate change has created a unique pressure as well. New economic modes trail climatic shifts. Feudalism developed out of a small ice age in Europe, where as the industrial revolution followed its thaw. This notion of no progress, ignores the fact no one knows yet what contradictions will set in motion said imagined progress. Many of them, might already be in motion in ways we can't predict. Today we need to understand communism's revival will not take the form it did in the 20th century. Too many of the old communist parties have become dogmatic cesspools, out of touch with the general currents of the masses and unwilling to meet them halfway.
No.1794491
>>1794264If you mean communism in the Marx and Engels sense, then it's unlikely.
The subsumption of social relations by capital has become so complete that most people cannot imagine a society without it. Several generations of social reproduction have been tied up with the circuit of capitalist production by now. Communist social relations are simply unthinkable to the majority of people, including many self-proclaimed leftists. Even if communist society was imposed on the world by some immense force, most people would find the lack of wage labor and private property so alien that they would reject it out of hand.
This is not to say that the class struggle will not continue, or that there will not be an immense amount of 'anti-capitalist' frustration and the world continues to deteriorate. But it will be channeled in reformist or reactionary directions, propping up the status quo or encouraging new bourgeois forms of dictatorship. The only ways out would require a great deal of careful prefigurative effort on behalf of communists, and/or possibly a collapse in civilizational complexity that would make restoring capitalist social relations impractical.
No.1794563
>>1794364It isn't, it's a reformist and antirevolutionary policy.
No.1794842
<In recent years, the question arises as to what revolutionary behaviour actually is in relation to some very different events. Let us say, to speak generally, in a certain way with the Western student movements, and at the same time in the socialist countries: how is it possible to be revolutionary in a country where the revolutionary forces are in power and where they therefore have very different tasks? As someone who has seen yourself as a revolutionary for over fifty years, what can you say about this?>Let’s look at the student movements. I study and observe these movements with great sympathy because, if I compare the situation in 1945 with today, it really seemed then that the ‘American way of life’, that is, manipulated capitalism, was completely victorious even on the ideological level. Now at least one layer is beginning to move, even if not quite consciously, and it is unimportant if it does not use the right means.
>Allow me a paradox: when modern capitalism was born after primitive accumulation, workers instinctively felt they were being degraded by the machine. This feeling was at the origin of ‘Luddism’, i.e. the destruction of machines. The destruction of machines cannot be considered a correct tactic. However, this was undoubtedly a necessary step, which later led the workers to organise themselves in trade unions. Today, I see the students not as models of revolutionary action, but as initiators of a movement in world history. And I don’t care whether the leaders of the student movements see it that way or not: objectively, behind all this, is the fact, as they say, that they ‘don’t want to become manipulated professional idiots’, and that is why they are looking for another way. They haven’t found it yet, and they won’t find it as long as wider layers of people are not able to revolt against this manipulated capitalism.
>We see the beginnings of this revolt in very primitive forms in America and elsewhere in the anti-war movements. We can see it in the Black question and in the discussion that has arisen around it. So, we can say that we are at the initial stage of a revolutionary revolt against manipulated capitalism which corresponds, for example – but we have to be careful here because in history things don’t repeat themselves – to the emergence of the workers’ movement between the end of the eighteenth and the beginning of the nineteenth century. At that time, Marxism was not yet spoken of, but without it Marxism would never have been born.
>If we come back to our situation today, I would say that socialism finds itself facing a great new problem. Lenin was the last great figure of a possible new development, which then became more and more impossible. Let us not forget that at the beginning of the workers’ movement, if we think only of the great figures of Marx, Engels and Lenin, we see how the great ideologue and the great political leader were united in one person. They coexisted in each of these three figures. And the same should have been true of Lenin’s successor, Stalin. I believe that Stalin was a convinced revolutionary, if one applies an objective historical judgment to him. He was a highly intelligent man of great talent, an extraordinary tactician, but I would say devoid of any ideological sensitivity.
>In numerous essays, which I cannot go into here, I have written that in the period of Marx and Lenin the whole worldwide movement had a strongly defined ideological conception, from which the workers’ movements of the different countries derived their strategy, and tactical decisions were made within this framework. In the Stalinist period, the party leader was at the same time the competent ideologue of the party, and – as we know – competent in everything: this is how a Rakosi, a Novotny and so on were born.
>We must be aware that there is little chance that the workers’ movement will have a new Marx, a new Engels or a new Lenin. Hence, the new problem of what the relationship between ideological training and party political tactics should be. In my opinion, this problem has not been solved.
<What possibilities do you think there are for someone who wants to act today?>Of course, there are no great possibilities for someone who wants to act. However, there is no period in which one cannot do something. For example, there is no obstacle whatsoever to those who are inclined to theoretical and ideological studies devoting themselves to ideological research and exerting their influence through it, always bearing in mind all the difficulties and dangers of deviation. In this respect, it is only necessary to recognise in the West that manipulated capitalism does not represent a new era that is neither capitalist nor socialist, but that there is simply a phenomenon to be analysed.
>On the other hand – and I attach great importance to this point, as I always have – it is necessary to be clearly aware that in a great number of essential questions Stalin was not the successor of Lenin, but his opposite. In this sense, from the human point of view, one of the most important problems is to return to Lenin’s revolutionary type. That is why I consider it so important to see Lenin as a real man and not a legendary figure. Today this has above all a great current political significance.https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/news/5309-georg-lukacs-the-final-interview No.1794891
>>1794324This
Unfortunately yt commies of the leftypol milieu are obsessed with the incel honkie demographic rather than the migrants they want to slaughter
>>1794364No, it's a cornerstone of the dogshit nationalist "socialist" parties of the 20th Century whose politics range from socdem to brawling other socialist parties in the street, whose culmination ranges from voting "YES" to war bonds to forming the first fascist parties
All nativist "socialists" tend to be either social fascists or actual fascists
>Inb4 le porky likes le migrantThe original fascists also pretended to be anti-capitalist
No.1795024
>>1794280>education produces secularismHahahahahahaha, good one bro
No.1795036
>>1794891>>Inb4 le porky likes le migrant>The original fascists also pretended to be anti-capitalistPorky can have material interests in promoting immigration, it's not just an act.
That doesn't mean we should therefore take the opposite side just because it's the opposite side. But it's not just an act like NatSoc, or some legacy like original fascists (which did, in fact, partially descend from syndicalism). Porky loves a cheaper labour force.
No.1795048
>>1794310cringe/based dialectics is a spectator sport for terminally online minors. That shit stops mattering once you go into the real world and have bills to pay
No.1795051
>>1794320Europe is kinda fucked in the short-term but far-rightoids always shit the bed and breed dissent
Schizo ideology breeds schizo governance. Look at what happened in the latest Polish election
No.1795102
>>1795051>Europe is kinda fucked in the short-term but far-rightoids always shit pino loves you
No.1795107
>>1794264You do not understand the causes of evil and you can see no way out. The industrial proletariat does not belong to the same category as you. Read The Dialectics of Dependency.
No.1795111
>>1795107reading is for larpers and retards who dont understand human nature
No.1795126
>>1795121The right wing has had social isolation containment zones for quite a while and they used them to recruit fairly decently.
No.1795135
>>1795113People can read and fight fascits. Those are not exclusive
>>1795121You are saying too much abstract stuff like "Communism is too rigd" or "Too much baggage".
You could point like to what you actually disagree of "communism" or "Leftism" so that we can say "Oh yea that doesn't make sense" or "Well this actually make sense, let me explain this to you".
So, what you don't like about "Communism"? Something more precise
No.1795156
>>1795135>>1795135>People can readamericans cant and by default refuse to. get mao pilled
No.1795162
>>1795121We need a new gommunism but not like the gommunism from before
I am very smart
<t. No.1795163
>>1794891I think we agree with each other i'm just looking at it from the position of a capitalist country and you a more idealized socialist one.
No.1795173
>>1795135>So, what you don't like about "Communism"? Something more precise<soviet worship(they shat the bed lol)<faggot obsession<chin hate and worship<all words and all spergs<feminism i.e. anti masculine propaganda<birth strikes<gun aversions<idol worship<overt conformism<fickleness <compromising<lack of short form propaganda<eurocentrism<passivity<no practical training<no robust organization<slow adapt to anything<no international organizing<idpol lols<few riots or coordinated action<peaceful protest is the solution to everythingthis why modern communism is a meme
>>1795167pretty much unironically, it what was rare there was any proactive action on the whole. corn man was trotsky pilled on permanent revolution
No.1795183
>>1795173How do you explain the fact that patsoc is a bigger failure than leftism is?
No.1795186
>>1795126yeah but the left likes to stay in its hole whereas the right is always looking for opportunities to exploit. they'll infiltrate communities that don't like them and exploit a single hot button issue (e.g. trans stuff) and then use it as a lever to subject people to their propaganda. leftists are like punks. they want to be popular but hate people outside their tribe so they lock themselves in a bubble. there isnt a small imageboard and altchan that hasnt been hit up by /pol/ people. leftypol doesnt spread the message much.
>>1795135the problem with the left was it was always too narrow and based in a kind of enlightenment fundamentalist worldview. there are actually communistic societies that exist which anthropologists have studied. but leftists rarely take anything from these studies aside from a few fringe anarchists. why? because it fucks with their stage theory of history and probably western arrogance too. the other problem is the left is actually very narrow and conservative. we like to stick to a canon of thinkers and a canon of ideas and are pretty hostile to anything outside that. we dont read confucius, or ibn arabi, or nagarjuna. youll never see stallman interviewed on democracy now. i mean think about it. for the first time an industrial technology (UNIX) which was part of the means of production of capitalist enterprises is now something free and open source in the form of linux. thats a huge achivement and the left (outside online anyway) completely ignored it. now look a lot of the freefags are going down the libertarian to far right pipeline. i even read an article in a big publication calling on "software workers" to reject the free software approach and embrace marxism, as if you cant do both. you have a lot of dogmatic marxists out there who suffer from extreme black and white thinking. e.g. vivek chibber ranting about how post-colonialism is an enemy of marxism and dialectical materialism is better when most post-colonialists are marxists and he uses this false distinction and basically strawmans them the entire book. this my way or the highway thinking is just retarded.
okay so what do i think communism needs?
>1. reject scientific socialism and the traditional marxist leninist model. its intellectually outdated and it didnt work. utopian forms of socialism were worse when it came to analyzing society but much better at mobilizing people and pretty much everything else. they were also a lot more diverse because they never had dogmatic intellctuals breathing down their necks so you get weird evangelical free love communes based on biblical scripture or confucian socialists etc. scientific socialism did not allow communism to adapt to local environments. it was too busy imposing itself.>2. reject positivism and essentialism. the positive scientistic way of doing analysis should be completely scrapped. its intellectual garbage. the obsession with empiricism and science has produced dogmatism. the classic marxist criticism of post-modernism is that its too apolitical. so then politicize it! the radical potential is there. >3. stop being elitist subculture snobs. also the left needs to stop imposing itself on other movements instead of working with them. make a conscious attempt to understand and build bridges and alliances. a good example was negris trip to iran. not uncritical, not sycophantic, but not "ohh u need to be atheist marx thumpers now!">4. new tactics and new strategies. this is the hard part and i cant answer this. >5. stop gluing yourself to single issue causes. yeah lgbt rights, animal liberation, etc are nice and all but they shouldnt be higher up on the priority list than workers rights, poverty, and destryong state and capital. you also have to be sensitive to the way that the far right use these issues to sow chaos and hatred in society and how the us state department and other imperial interests are trying to weaponize them, there are also a lot of idiots giving leftists a bad image. hasanabi type posers. thats my two cents. man /siberia/ fucking sux. id rather stick to s4s shithole.
No.1795195
>>1795183>How do you explain the fact that patsoc is a bigger failure than leftism is?snow pigs enjoy bathing in shit. wights have yet to build a lasting civilization.
No.1795201
>>1795183>How do you explain the fact that patsoc is a bigger failure than leftism is?<cuba<best korea<china<chiapaspatsoc really does nothing….. at all
No.1795250
>>1794364>claims to represent workers<expect the ones from the other bourgeois turfbrilliant 1 gajilllion autism score shit here
No.1795265
>>1795250Immigration in a capitalist society is inherently anti worker. Foreign laborers get exploited and the position of the local worker weakens. In a socialist society it isn't an issue obviously.
No.1795298
>>1795250>brilliant 1 gajilllion autism score shit here<doesnt understand how far proles will go to undercut each otherwhos autistic again?
No.1795342
>>1794264RIGHT NOW BROTHER JOIN THE REVOLUTIONARY COMMUNIST INTERNATIONAL
No.1795419
Oops
>>1794363>>1794413>>1794458>>1794485I'm in agreement with these, but do keep in mind capitalism only needs to erode in the imperial core. It's over once the US is sufficiently weakened.
>>1794280Secularism is not exclusive to education. Poor analysis.
>>1795173>>1795186Idiots.
No.1795548
>>1795546I will show my 7.5 inches enthusiasm to your rectum, bitch boy
No.1795568
>>1795201The way it seems to me, socialist regimes emphasized patriotism as part of their tasks of defending and constructing a country once in power, or building broad fronts to resist Nazi occupation in Eastern Europe and then reconstructing shattered polities in the aftermath of World War II, but doesn't seem like the main thing that catapulted communists into power in Russia in 1917 compared to demands from below for radical land reform combined with massive literacy initiatives by the emerging new state.
No.1795583
>>1795173>>1795546What's your problem with gay people exactly?
No.1795647
>>179558320+ YEARS of sex bullshit and circlejerks by white boojis complaining about the same thing while anything resembling any actual improvement for the impoverished, destitute, and overexploited gets reversed
>>1795548sorry, poopy dick, im not your daddy
No.1795655
>>1795583they stole the rainbow, now no more coalition
No.1795657
>>1795647>20+ YEARS of sex bullshit and circlejerks by white boojis complaining about the same thing while anything resembling any actual improvement for the impoverished, destitute, and overexploited gets reversedI swear, why are queers the biggest naggers for the most unimportant things in the world?
No.1795684
>>1795657Nah, you're thinking of homophobes
No.1795687
>>1794290Read Samir Amin lol. Read Ruy Mauro Marini. Or, keep circlejerking about Foucault and femboys.
No.1795795
>>1795121>so communists end up isolating themselves from society which is the complete opposite of what the rightoids are doing.I sometimes say anti-capitalist shit in 4chan, even /pol/. I've noticed that seeing mild disruptions in their echo chamber disturbs them greatly and gets them to weaken right away. I feel like leftists should be more willing to be disruptive and confrontational in the internet, it's not like there are any consequences anyway.
No.1795946
>>1795647this
>>1795795this, 4chanrs are really thrown off when when they are insulted right back after using unconventional white slurs like cocksauce,permasperm,snow monkey, or cumstain. even just refering to them as white roaches works, its funny.
>>1795655this lol
No.1795954
>>1795684you mean the average person whos been told if they arent pissing the rainbow, they are hitler 3.0, those people right?
No.1795955
>>1795684Was it the homophobes complaing about Gaddafi saying AIDS was sent to punish the west?
No.1795985
>>1795795leftists have this bad habit of disengaging and sticking to their own corners. which only helps the rightoids take over.
>white roaches XD lemme try it
No.1796010
>chin hate and worship
Damn I wonder what this poster looks like
No.1796013
>>1796010Black and packed. youre welcome
No.1796014
>>1794264According to our calculations only 20 160 minutes for full communism.
No.1796017
>>1796014840 days? That would be like 2.30136986301!!!!A!
No.1796046
>>1796017Also i meant it like, 2.301369 years
No.1796059
>>1796046so in less then 3 years? whats your reasons
No.1796157
>>1796059Not that anon, sorry, i don't think communism will come in 2.3 years. We need another five year plan to put achievable goals step by step untill full luxury space goonmunism
No.1796282
0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin. All he has managed to do is make himself *sad*. He is starting to suspect Karl Marx *fucked him over* personally with his socio-economic theory. It has, however, made him into a very, very smart boy with something like a university degree in Truth. Instead of building Communism, he now builds a precise model of this grotesque, duplicitous world.
No.1796291
Because the red scare and constant propaganda is too strong, its not happening any time soon.
This is why direct action (anarchism) will lead the revolution.
No.1796393
>>1796291How is direct action related to anarchism in any way?
No.1796488
>>1795024It does. By secularism I don't mean the total lack of religiosity, but the lack of fundamentalist inclination towards theocracy. And by education I don't mean religious "education" but secular education. Capitalist society needs people to be class collaborationist and internationalist and this means engendering secular values, like having a religious pluralist society, and allowing concepts like evolution to be taught in schools. This is the real secularization. I don't mean everyone becoming atheists.
No.1796534
>>1796291Lol and why does the Red Scare work in the imperial core? Why is it so easy for people who pay $8 for disppsable drive thru coffees to believe the United Fruit Company really makes all the people in the Potemkin Villages the journalists saw happy?
Because they're fat enough to start imagining they can be investors and celebrities.
It's not a red scare, you're just a fat pig who imagines yourself to be Che Guevara. The revolution has already started. It's not waiting for anarchists in the first world. You might as well just kill yourself when you have the time.
No.1796535
>>1796534> The revolution has already started.where when? how do i join?
No.1796536
>>1796535On youtube with CRYPTOCURRENCY! Just kidding.
No.1796645
>>1796536that revolution died with mcaffee in spain
No.1796663
>>1796527>>1796393>>1796534The communists who completely rely on winning elections are doomed to fail under current circumstances. Marxism and the left have been successfully demonized.
Social change can only be achieved through civil disobedience and direct action, which have always characterized anarchism.
No.1796705
You motherfuckers should stop isolating yourselves from the world and unironically do as /pol/fags do.
Why did /pol/fags take over? because they were extraordinarily confrontational and were willing to pick up losing fights over and over no matter how much people disagreed with them and thought they were crazies. If you push hard and long enough you start to gain terrain, it's that simple.
Go organize irl or pick up fights in the interwebz (the terminally online also matter in the struggle) but the point is go pick up fights. Just chilling in your circlejerk won't do shit.
It doesn't matter if you read ten million books on theory if you don't do shit, it's just intellectual masturbation. Go pick up fights. Go stir shit up.
No.1796709
>>1796705>why did polfags win?Win what? Are you retarded? Did you think the US stopped being fascist after WWI?
No.1796710
>>1796013oh so you're a hotep chinlet
No.1796711
>>1796709alright you're right about everything and I'm retarded, go stir shit up anyway fucking hell
No.1796763
>>1794413Sadly, your pessimistic forecast seems quite realistic, as it lines up very closely with my “Global Nuclear War Shining Path to Communism”, which is starting to become more likely every day compared to the more peaceful “4th Industrial Revolution/UBI/Multipolar Shining Path to Communism”, due to the fact that it sadly seem increasingly likely that Biden is being bribed by the Billionaire Zionists to lose the 2024 Election too Trump, due to the fact that many Zionist Wall Street Donors are throwing tons of money at Biden, in order to bribe him to keep on sending money/weapons to aid and abet the Zionist Genocide of Gaza, which combined with the asinine Sinophobic TikTok Ban (this was first proposed by Trump himself, but him pretending to “oppose” it is Psyoping the dumb Democrats to go along with it out of knee-jerk Contrarianism), will cause Young Progressives, Black/New Afrikan Leftists (most Blacks/New Afrikans sympathize with Palestine, due to realizing the similarities between the Civil Rights Movement/Apartheid/Slavery/the Scramble for Africa and the Settler-Colonial Racist Zionist oppression of Palestine). and Muslims to sit out of the election, which will put Trump back in the White House who will initiate Project 2025 that will turn the U$ into a Fascist Theocracy, Invade Iran/Mexico, and fight World War III with China, thus meaning the 4th Industrial Revolution/UBI/Multipolar Shining Path to Communism (critically supporting Left-Liberals/Social Democrats in the Imperial Core in order to stop Fascist Theocracy and eventually get a UBI that will divorce Income from Employment as the 4th Industrial Revolution Automates the Workforce combined with the Legalization of Victimless Crimes Hyper-Rationalizing the Superstructure, along with Critically Supporting the Sino-Russian-Iranian Bloc and implementing a Non-Interventionist Foreign Policy, which combined with the 4th Industrial Revolution reshoring Manufacturing back to the Imperial Core, will make it easier for Maoist PPWs to sweep the Periphery/Semi-Periphery, thus placing the Workers and Opppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to Communism, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇮🇷🇵🇸🇸🇾🇮🇶🇱🇧🇾🇪🇨🇺🇻🇪🇷🇺🇧🇾🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈!) will no longer be viable, and the only hope will be that World War III between the U$ and China turns into a Global Nuclear War (this will happen if Chinese DF-21/26 MRBMs/IRBMs manage to sink a U$ Aircraft Carrier, and enough Chinese ICBMs and SLBMs survive the U$ Nuclear First Strike and successfully penetrate the U$ ABM systems in the Second Strike) that will collapse the entire Global Capitalist-Imperialist System (completely destroying all the Imperialist Powers, including the U$, EU, Russia, China, Japan, India, and the Zionist State), thus allowing for a World Maoist PPW in both the Periphery/Semi-Periphery and Imperial Core, to place the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to Communism, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇮🇷🇵🇸🇸🇾🇮🇶🇱🇧🇾🇪🇨🇺🇻🇪🇷🇺🇧🇾🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🚀☢️!
No.1796765
>>1796667Who the hell is Leon?
No.1796768
>>1796763Ha ha. What a ride, buddy!
No.1796774
>>1796766>>1796768In case my fellow Comrades didn’t get my Post, what I’m saying is that the Zionist Billionaires are Bribing to Biden to lose the 2024 election to Trump by supporting the Zionist Genocide of Gaza which making his Voter Base sit out of the election (or vote Third Party), meaning that Trump will implement Project 2025 and turn the U$ into a Fascist Theocracy, and fight World War III with China, Iran, and Mexico, making the more peaceful Shining Path to Communism involving the 4th industrial Revolution, UBI, and Multipolarity, and Maoist PPWs only in the Periphery/Semi-Periphery, completely unviable, so the only viable Shining Path to Communism will be World War III turning into a Global Nuclear War that will allow for a World Maoist PPW in both the Periphery/Semi-Periphery and the Imperial Core, to place the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to Communism, ✊😜!
No.1797104
Well, not in Russia. Commies got BTFO today.
No.1797126
>>1797104>lose more than half their voter share from 2018What was their plan for the election - all glory to the special operation?
No.1797542
there will be a communist revival when someone remakes all 3 volumes of das kapital in tik tok form without all the 19th century german baggage
just kidding
No.1797609
>>1797126Are you implying that it would have been a smart move, electorally, to be anti-DPR/LPR in a country which unilaterally supported them joining? In an election where they got swept by the obviously pro-war United Russia?
Have you even managed to get whatever org you are in taken seriously by the Democratic party you cling to? Have you ever run a local communist candidate?
Did you know there are elected officials in Russia other than the head of state? Crazy, I know,
No.1799911
>>1797126Doesn't matter what they do. Decommunisation, denazification. As in Ukraine, so in Russia.
No.1810425
>>1794491Take off that leftcom flag retard
No.1811367
>>1796774
>le project 2025 will be immiediately implemented.I mean possibly but i think its unlikely, tbh i think trump will likely implement 2025 post mid-terms as this is his second term so he dosen't really have to worry about getting re-elected, but he would have to worry about the midterms beacuse if he passes highly controversial bills then he's going ot lose a lot of popular support (and he's already unpopular as it is, hell the only reason trump stands a chance at winning the next election is due to bidens complete and utter incompetence and due to the fact that biden managed to piss off more than 70% of his voting base through palastine)
No.1811370
Soon
No.1811446
>>1796774Project 2025 is no different to what the Dems do when they're in power.
No.1811465
>>1794264Close to 0. However, if the Palestinians survive the genocide and Russia becomes victorious in Ukraine, I would say 5 to 10% chances.
If afterwards China manages to take Taiwan, 20 to 25%.
No.1811510
>>179426430% tbh not great not impossible though
caveat: most will probably anarcho primitivists
No.1811518
>>1811446project 2025 is made up nonsense brought to us by the people currently committing genocide
No.1811523
>>1811367And for his faults Trump knows how to read a room and is pragmatic. I believe people are going to be looking like clowns in 5 years from now about Project 2025
No.1811528
>>1811523>>1811523>I believe people are going to be looking like clowns in 5 years from now about Project 2025how
No.1811630
The mode of production will inevitably evolve, regardless of the presence or absence of the communist movement.
No.1811646
>>1811630correct. i dont even agree with vulgar teleology in marxism, but even if it takes 1000 years and the earth is one big swelting slum, people will never be satisfied will being hungry and robbed and they will eventually come to the conclusion that the only way to completely prevent that is a system of production that makes hunger and robbery impossible
No.1811647
>>1811630Sure but humanity needs this movement now
No.1811651
>>1811647Do you whine about every inconvenience of statistical natural processes?
No.1811662
>>1811630Yeah but it will now evolve into communism. It can't evolve into communism, because you don't evolve from class society to classless society.
The history of class society is accidental in how it developed - each period of history of class society is marked by certain rules of production - but these rules are accidental. They are in no way a consciouss effort of humanity. This accidental i.e. evolutionary process led towards capitalism.
Capitalist society is the first society that unconciously reproduces itself and undermines all other class society - proletarians are the product of capitalist society and the class whose surplus-value reproduces the system. Proletrians by understanding their position in capitaist society have the… I want to say, awerness to abolish this accidental, evolutionary process by consciouslly planning the production of use values and reproduction of society.
But history shows time and time agian that proletarians only reach a tradeunion or petty-bourgeois conscsiousness by way of this evolutionary struggle. You need an injection of communist consciousness into the proletarian class for it to be able to establish a dictatorship (political supremacy in society) to liquidate the remnants of class society. This is - not evolution - but a social revolution.
No.1811664
You're seeing the skeleton of one right now forming in the Sahel, doubly so since the Senegalese elections the other night
No.1811711
>>1811680>ideological SankaristReally?
No.1811737
>>1811680First time I seen a guy with two hot wives who look like they actually want to be there.
Good for them kek.
No.1811740
>>1811711Even if you have doubts despite his words and actions his appointed Prime Minister explicitly isa sankarist with a long history of such pre this coup.
No.1811784
There is no revival for your ideology, unfortunately for you. The future is bright for the Anarchists however, those sons and daughters of the thought of Proudhon
No.1811785
>>1811784anarcho-syndicalism right?
I don't see any other types of anarchism as close to getting to power and surviving anywhere, and being actual threats today. This might change in the future. Zapatistas, Kurdistan and others are not in very good shape, ima be real man.
At least the international unions of workers are doing the red stuff
Also China is still Marxist-leninist, and they are winning hard as fuck No.1811788
>>1795975soy detected
>>1796667a pol
>>1811785>Zapatistas, Kurdistan and others are not in very good shape,who is "other"
>Also China is still Marxist-leninist, and they are winning hard as fuckchins only care about chins. example they didnt give a shit abouts the phils
No.1811790
>>1811788others like, political orgs that never actually got into power. Again, the situation is not good for anarchist parties. ACAB is not going so well, the OASL has left the confederation and looks to be dead, yet they remain. It doesn't look like they are going to get into power anytime soon, just to show some examples.
https://cabanarquista.orghttps://anarquismosp.wordpress.com No.1811791
Oh, but anarchism has A LOT of newspapers. Like, a ton of them. At least that we got good now
No.1811795
Me go to sleep
Goodbye
No.1812320
Even if we achieve socialism how will you deal with the division of labor? For example operators who want to be engineers instead because their job is shit
No.1812326
>>1811785Yes, I am a syndicalist. I agree, the Zapatistas and Rojava are not the pinnacle of success, but one should look at these movements and their success in relativity, before the end of the cold war autonomous libertarian-socialist projects in 2 independent locations would have been seen as impossibility, not only to those critics of Anarchism, but to Anarchists themselves as well. The mere fact that we are discussing libertarian socialism in terms of what is, instead of what can or could be, is a testament to the waning influence of Marxism, and the revival of Anarchism.
As for Marxist China, they have neither the power nor the desire to influence revolutionary movements worldwide, not since the time of Mao. Really, whens the last time you've heard about a Deng Xiaopingist revolutionary organization? China has abandoned any semblance of revolutionary thought, and so revolutionary thought has abandoned the influence of China.
No.1812338
>>1812320Better benefits for shittier jobs naturally. Division of labor is one of the most important things for economies to grow (and to achieve full communism).
No.1812346
>>1812326Those 2 projects were very cool. Looking forward for the next project. Hope i can be part of it
>>1812344 >Rojava are literally a bunch of Kurdish Kemalists. Ocelan's aim is a Kurdish version of Turkey. >A secular fundamentalist ethnostatewtf are you talking about
No.1812354
>>1812326Zapatistas are chiapanecan-maoists.
No.1812357
>>1812354This got to be bait
Ima go crie in my room, aka finish the work i need to do No.1812360
>>1812354Mao was barely a communist. Peasant retard trying to force his will on people.
No.1812370
>>1812357Subcommandante Marcos et al were Maoists, if I remember correctly. They get there and radicalize everyone, organize them, then synthesize their customs Marxist Leninist theory.
Communism with rural-chiapanecan characteristics. What's the problem? :-)
No.1812505
>>1812346PKK's objectives haven't changed. Remember, the Kemalists also set up populist councils when they were taking over Anatolia. A lot of Kurdish nationalists are about as racist and sectarian as their Turkish counterparts. All I'm saying is, all this democratic confederalism stuff is a larp and they want to create an ethnically pure Kurdish state. Ethnonationalists are scum and can't be trusted.
No.1812510
>>1812505Idk man i would like to see your sources, no offense
No.1812552
socialism historically had periods of recession and advance
this too shall pass
>>1794280>immiseration produces class consciousnessneck yourself
>>1794290a degenerated workers state is still a workers state
No.1812890
>>1794290Eat your lasagna
No.1812897
>>1812326<the ansynd sectarianism autistic is backBoooo..
>is a testament to the waning influence of MarxismAs detached from reality as always. Both movements contain and are externally supported by many Marxists.
No.1813130
>>1812897whats up with you black flag anon, you consistently seem to me to be nothing but a marxist lackey left unity psyop
do better comrade, do better
No.1813239
>>1811680I'm not well versed with Sankarists and Pan Africanism. Is the guy for or against the capitalist class
No.1813249
>>1813239They're certainly against the French and American ones actively fucking them over in this moment
No.1813250
>>1813249It's something at least
No.1813251
>>1813130It's easy to have your nonsense 'politics' when they only exist to fashion an identity around on the internet in a very transparent act for superiority.
Try existing for something and actually doing politics instead of being content in this fbi.gov child subculture you think is politics.
No.1813371
islamo-marxism is the future (pflp-hamas synthesis). post-marxist cyber occultist anarchism. mainstream lefties are tired old normalfags living in the 1800s. thats why they get easily rolled by neolibs and rightoid guenonfags. they left samurai culture and buddhism and shintoism to the ultra nationalists instead of mixing with it themselves and now the japanese commies are dying off like jews in a concentration camp. why haz so popualr? because hes unhinged. we need mysticism. we need messianism. we need spiritual sex gnosis. we need a god or some kind of god. post-modern cyber god.
No.1813377
>>1813371Leftypol finally does some dialectical materialism, let's gooo 🗣️🗣️🗣️
No.1813380
>>1813371You need an actual plan for a project that will actually work. No more excuses,
No.1813387
>>1813371>>1813371>islamo-marxismso a red theocracy, sounds retarded
>post-marxist cyber occultist anarchismelaborate
> we need mysticism. we need messianism. we need spiritual sex gnosis. we need a god or some kind of god. post-modern cyber god.fairytales in fedoras
>>1813385whats your idea then?
No.1813388
>>1813329anarkiddies are retarded stfu
(Average Glownonymous Sectarianism) No.1813393
>>1813387>whats your idea then?Exactly, therein lies the debate. Nobody has put forth a project we all agree on, therefore ideas like 'organization' are meaningless.
No.1813395
>>1813393>Nobody has put forth a projectA 'programme' to use the Marxist term.
No.1813396
There is hundreds of thousands of books justfying so many things, including all those ideal projects, ideas, etc. It would be easier if people actually readed things they dislike so much, and made serious analyzes about them, instead of just saying random biased opinions.
But then again, this is a casual imageboard. There is no consensus, nor a plan, nor anywhere to go. We will need to change the world the hard way
No.1813404
>>1813403Like did they keep track of their stage of Socialism on the road to communism or whatever? Is there a graph of their Socialism stage by year?
No.1813477
>>1813251ah yes my nonsense and completely unfounded belief that Marxism and Anarchism are inherently hostile to each other. Wherever could I have gotten THAT idea, please ignore Marxist hostilities occurring in 1872, 1917, 1931, and 1936, as well as any and all Marxist repression of Anarchists in territories under their control.
This is of course as opposed to your rational and level-headed view that we will all live harmoniously and happily with our Marxist 'comrades', contrary to the mountains of evidence suggesting (to put it lightly) otherwise.
No.1813510
>>1813329> even if the ussr were to still exist today just like the chins it would have been barely proactive if it were at allussr was retarded but atleast had more principles though
No.1814054
I think that the fall of Communist States, especially the USSR has blackpilled many people on future prospects. Still Socialism itself remains popular among the youths in the West, so there is hope in pushing the Overton Window majorly to the left in the next 20 years.
No.1814059
>>1814054>Still Socialism itself remains popular among the youths in the Westthis is overestimated
No.1814062
>>1814054I think many people are mistaking liberalism with socialism. They really though a guy like Biden was left lmao
No.1814064
>>1813477That was centuries ago. Its time to end this religious crusade and just accept our eternal differences in mutual respect.
No.1814065
>>1814054I think one of the biggest impediments towards socialism developing at this stage is that socialists haven't been able to articulate a hopeful vision of the future to strive for. It's able to correctly identify what's wrong and how to fix it, but the prevailing capitalist view that the future will just be a slightly better version of now hasn't been displaced.
No.1814076
>>1814062I think the youths only vote for Biden because he is not the orange man. If voters had an actual say in the nomination, Bernie would've won.
>>1814065Luckily capitalism is discrediting itself. Very few people believe in "trickle down economics", and other wishful concepts. We really need new Das Kapital/Communist Manifesto level of books for modern times.
No.1814081
>>1813477there were anarchist and tolstoyan communes in the ussr but they didn't want to be encorporated into an economic plan and had to be liquidated for soviet power to actually productively continue the class struggle.
No.1814088
There's a big chance of communism making a comeback in the West if the communists actually stopped worshipping revolutions that had to adapt to concrete historical reality (autocracy, colonialism, massive peasant population and proletarian minority) and actually studied the Paris Commune and the concrete steps in took and those it didn't - a synthesis between Communardism and Leninism, if you will. But we'd all rather LARP bolsheviks instead. It's simply much easier.
No.1814089
>>1814076Most people are very retarded and reactionary without firm beliefs see how many still want to do for Biden despite him having over 40.000 confirmed deaths on his shoulder just in Gaza alone. Bernie is a shitlib zionist who sold out like Biden and they don't care. People only hear "free healthcare" and "tax le billionaire by a few more percent" as if that would remove the issue of everyone inside and out getting fucked by imperial power that is the US.
No.1814091
>>1814076Yeah, it's discrediting itself, and while I think that is creating some of the cracks that are allowing socialist optimism to trickle through, I don't think that's enough.
I think part of what made socialism so popular in the 19th and 20th centuries was that the trapping of its success were very material and readily apparent. For most people access to education and simple things like electricity were unattainable luxuries, and when socialists were able to provide them that's something very concrete to point to.
The same thing doesn't really apply any more, at least in the West where material abundance is everywhere, for all the good it does. The Bolsheviks were able to propose and produce a really radical new society, but so far I don't think that vision has materialized among the modern Communists.
No.1814092
>>1814091>The same thing doesn't really apply any more, at least in the West where material abundance is everywhereYes, and till communist have a wicked stalinist understanding of what socialism is (it's not linear growth of productive forces + linear growth of wages) we won't budge from our deadlock. Socialism is the abolition of alienation.
No.1814096
>>1814089If the system allows a change it's not a threat to it.
>>1814091Many things taken for granted by "boomers" are now out of reach for the youth. If even 1 country becomes socialist and is able to provide these goods/services, then it will gain legitimacy. For some reason China doesn't have this effect.
No.1814273
>>1814088>There's a big chance of communism making a comeback in the West if the communists actually stopped worshipping revolutions that had to adapt to concrete historical reality You have to realize that the Russian Revolution will always be brought up and it is not worshipping to defend the overwhelming positive that came from it. We still have ML states like Cuba as well. Also the majority of communists in the west are euro-communist who condemn the Soviet experience. So the strategy that you are talking about has already been tried. Guess what our opponents are always going to say that we killed millions or mass starvation like Venezuela and the like. It's up to us to take from the past and to give a vision for the future.
No.1814434
>>1814273>the strategy that you are talking about has already been triedWhen? Where? Which organization took in its programme the demands of the Commune? Which organization took Iskra's organizatory plan and applied it to its own circumstances? Where's the autocracy in the West? Where are the colonial powers exploiting the people? Where are the competing warlords? Where's the civil war? Where are the worker's soviets?
Do you even realize how ridiculous you sound? Nothing in the west has been tried sans a lowly combination of narodnaya-volya-ist terrorism + the worship of intellectual individualism.
By revolutionary worship I mean exactly what you just did -
Marxism-Leninism is the religious dogma rigid stalinists love to push around thinking that there's a one-size-fits-all approach to revolution.
<b-but ML is a method not a dogm-shut the fuck up and read the early organizational texts of the RSDLP (
including Stalin) instead of thinking that degenerate state building ideologies are our shining path to communism.
No.1814445
>>1814434>>1814273anarchy mogs coommunists every time
No.1814529
>>1814222>>1814219tyranny of aesthetics
No.1814780
Being an honest person in America is a death sentence
No.1814782
>>1814780Being honest is a euphemism for being stupid and naive
No.1814798
>>1814445Mogged in being infantile
No.1814805
>>1814782being stupid and naive person in America is a death sentence
No.1814831
>>1814434>Which organization took in its programme the demands of the Commune? Most socialist organizations have the demands of the Commune.
>Which organization took Iskra's organizatory plan and applied it to its own circumstances?A handful of socialist in their own countries material conditions yet there seems to be no success. This was tried in the 20th century with the IWW and the CPUSA's Bill of Rights socialism. Those two are just the icing on the cake.Thats what I mean when I say your strategy isn't unique because they already were tried and not successful. There are multiple reasons why there is no success but communist "worshipping" previous revolutions are not the reason.
>Where's the autocracy in the West? Do you believe that the West has no authoritarian tendencies
>Do you even realize how ridiculous you sound? Nothing in the west has been tried sans a lowly combination of narodnaya-volya-ist terrorism + the worship of intellectual individualism. I can say that you sound ridiculous by saying that communism will make a comeback if they:
>actually stopped worshipping revolutions that had to adapt to concrete historical reality That is not why communism is not successful in the west. You are literally one step away from saying "not real socialism" which already makes people skeptical of you when you say "My socialism will work unlike the red tsarists". Now bringing a photo of Lenin in Chicago is larpy but it's another level if you condemn that revolution.
>By revolutionary worship I mean exactly what you just did - Marxism-Leninism is the religious dogma rigid stalinists love to push around thinking that there's a one-size-fits-all approach to revolution.Reread the post.Where did I say that Marxism-Leninism is a one size fits all? I am simply saying that those socialist revolutions will be brought up and you should talk about the overwhelming positive that came from the experience. There were mistakes but they were minor compared to the positives it gave. There is an anarchist in these threads that defends Marxist Leninist states and can say that the US won't have an ML revolution which is solid and understandable. Socialism will look different in countries with differing conditions
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