No.1795109[View All]
Jimmy Dore's video on the Boeing whistleblower that got Seth Rich'd has a bunch of rightoids malding over Jimmy attacking capitalism as the cause for Boeing being retarded with their safety regulations.
Comments are filled with
>not real capitalism>it's crony capitalism>it's fascism>it would work if it was capitalism<more rightoid bullshitBut this comment in one of the threads stood out: picrel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsUgxDNSGO0&lc=UgwaxrHpTJaYK2WUNJl4AaABAgHow would I answer this?
I don't comment on youtube anymore since my comments get deleted/shadowbanned and I don't find any use having debates there. But should I have a debate on Rumble, where there is actual free speech, how would I answer this?
No.1795767
>>1795735>Try convincing an islamic terrorist to accept child drag shows with logic and reason. <When your position is so trash that you feel more sympathy for the terrorist>makes an argument against the french revolutionPlenty of communists make the same argument
>>1795740>It's this cult of the small producer.This is the center of their worldview. If you tell them that communism empowers the small producer, they will immediately say "THAT"S IMPOSSIBLE!"
>They understand Capitalism as some nebulous "competition"They have vocabulary problems. What they want is "cooperation" but where they get all the gibs.
Last year, my boss loved John Stossel until he spoke out against gov subsidies to corporations. Now my boss hates his ass and calls him a dirty commie.
No.1795771
>>1795767He also loves china. His wife told me that when he went to china to secure a deal, he would ask the translator to say that china is real capitalism and america was a communist dictatorship. The translator told her that one of the chinese delegates came up to him and said
>You americans are truly special people, we couldn't wish for better business partners. No.1795773
>>1795767>Plenty of communists make the same argumentIts a bad argument to begin with since the french revolution is just the natural result of the enlightenment. Also, that quote from hegel about all things being put under the dictatorship of reason is part of his critique.
Replacing "muh reason" with "muh science" just doesnt seem enough for me. But thats my own reactionary position speaking.
Personally, my anthropology of modernity sees how the renaissance really started things off as an aesthetic eruption and so we could have a neo-renaissance rather than a "dark enlightenment" or whatever trash people support to right the wrongs of history. Moldbug obviously does a good job of trashing all of the cringe 1776 conservatives who dont know what the word "revolution" really means.
In any case, a "proletarian" illuminati isnt appealing. Just accept that you all want robspierre back.
No.1795777
>>1795773Engels' quote about all things being put under the dictatorship of reason*
No.1795778
>>1795735
You know the great irony here is that Islamic terrorists are the very children of Enlightenment rationalism. Salafi Jihadism explicitly started as a 18th century reformist movement that seek to abolish cultural customs and 'superstitions' by seeking a universal logos they can impose on the Islamic world. Which to Salafists are their literal interpretation to Islam. Much like how Evangelical Protestantism seeked to impose their literalist reading of the Bible against what they saw as Papist superstition. No wonder Evangelicalism went hand in hand with Colonialism. Same with how radical Islamism is obsessed with building a monolithic Islamicate civilization.
No.1795780
>>1795778Any resources on this?
I will admit that the whole white jihad thing shows the postmodern compatibility radical islam (as a meme ideology) has with disaffected youth
No.1795785
>>1795767To elaborate more on the "Cult of The Small Producer" thing, you ever read Atlas Shrugged? Absolutely
fascinating insight into this kind of lolbert psychosis. I might be its one and only Communist fan.
Anyways, you've got the myth of "Galt's Gulch" as some lolbertarian paradise where everything is run according to Ayn Rand's principals, and what's really funny about it is it almost appears as if Ms. Rand predicted
Minecraft of all things. Like, in this tiny little gulch in the middle of Colorado they not only grow their own food, but they mine copper from the mountains, drill for oil, have some organic produce market, can create advance technologies, and build homes, all while paying rent to the guy who owns the place! They've got all the resources they need, and they treat it all like, well, a game.
I think there was this scene where you had two copper producers staying in the Gulch. And one of them says, "Hoo boy! Since we got that new guy, he's really giving me hell! Well garsh, I got a feelin' he'll run me out of business even! But I'm gonna fight tooth and nail to stop that from happening!" Followed by some remarks where the dude says he'll gladly end up working for his competitor once he's driven out of business. Y'know, like this is just a fun little game of checkers and not his livelihood on the line.
I can almost guarantee some Libertarians think "Well, I should be able to set up an oil derrick on my suburban property and sell the proceeds!" It's batshit.
No.1795789
>>1795780There are endless sources for this. Wikipedia's page on it is decent. If you want a historical examination the most illuminating case is the Chechen case and how Salafism basically tried to destroy local Sufi customs which theh viewed as a mystical deviation and religious innovation.
No.1795792
>>1795789The greatest irony is that while the Left is quickly accelerating towards schizoid acephale currents, the mantle of rationalistic utopianism is being taken by the very enemy of the Enlightenment; religious extremism. We already discussed radical Islam. With Evangelicals Israel and the fulfillment of the End Times metanarrative is their utopian end of history, so to speak.
No.1795799
>>1795785Tbh Ayn Rand fetishized the capitalist class as architects and inventors that cause all proggress and beuty in the world while the modern lolberts fetishize the "masculine" self suficient yeoman of old rather than gatsby
No.1795816
>>1795792Well certainly the secret of rationalism is that it is irrationally founded. Reason is not universal, it is just the cause to critique, where critique stands as a place of discursive uneutrality. This is the notion of the subject peering out, of individualism, which underpins the ethos of liberalism as "manifest destiny". Liberalism begins with the hegemony of the british empire so its no wonder most of the enlightenment thinkers were part of it.
Reason as the impersonal authority (tied to locke's natural rights of man) give reference to a secular appropriation of an intellectual theocracy.
>religious extremismWell modernity effectively begins with the protestant reformation that quickly leads to various holy wars. But i see rationalism as spawning from this same place, of placing an impersonal idea above man, above the world for us to strive for (which is actually what starts capitalism according to max weber, where capital then takes the actual place of God as a product of our sacrifice).
I still see the current forms of extremism as postmodern though, where authenticity is simulated through spiritual window-shopping. People post chad edits of sadam killing kurds or people burning pride flags. Obviously most politics in the west is also larping.
It doesnt have the distinctly *modern* concept to it.
No.1795819
>>1795785You should tell lolberts that Ayn Rand hated them and their party when it was founded. There was a funny debate on campus between friends of the right, where a nazi told a lolbert that Ayn Rand's real name was Alisa Rosenbaum to which the lolbert said
>For you nazis everything is about jews!my own schizo opinion:
<Ayn Rand was a deep cover soviet OGPU agent tasked with corrupting american elites to self-destroy capitalism. If you read her biography it all makes sense>>1795813>This retard deserves a special place in hell for saying that capitalism is gosplan.I hate this guy so much every time I see his face I wanna drill a hole in his smug ass face
No.1795820
>>1795813Discount Nick Land. Technocapital.
No.1795837
>>1795142>Praxeology without empiricism is total nonsense.You can make headway withoit empiricism if you are willing to play ball on their field. You can point out that the NAP is functionally a version of Tit for Tat as a prisoners dilemma strategy but them demonstrate that the strategy becomes less useful than Always Betray the more unequal the two prisoners are.
Then you can quite easily point out that employment is based on
ownership and thus can scale indefinitely, while labor cannot scale in the same way.
No.1795840
>>1795109>you voluntarily chose to work for me!!!!nobody voluntarily chooses to work. they work or they die from being deprived of things like housing and food
No.1795862
>>1795771That's really funny.
>>1795813>>1795819This has got to be a gimmick for Varoufakis to sell more books or get more interviews in the Guardian with big spread photos like he's in Playgirl.
No.1795864
>>1795862this I think he knows the techo feudalism stuff is just branding for normies
No.1795877
>>1795864In academia you get credit for coming up with "new" things however banal
>>1795862Basically. He's been on this grift for like 2 years now. If it makes pseuds sound smart ig…
No.1795932
>>1795109>>not real capitalism>How would I answer this?it wont work but you gotta explain how monopoly naturally consolidates through competition and that this is the logical evolution of capitalism. it might help if you can quote adam smith saying you need a strong state to regulate monopolies to ensure competitive markets. meet them halfway and agree its not "free market capitalism" but that the free market doesn't exist when there is only one supplier, then go on about rent and how its unproductive and the lack of competition means they never have to innovate. next you get to regulatory capture, use their language about the govmint picking winners and losers, but reverse it where the winners bribe politicians to eat the losers and the only way out is a govmint by and for the people like the founders intended. maybe try to get personal by talking about internet service providers hiking rates and declining service or electric companies or something
No.1795966
>>1795932Had many conversations like this. They tend to go something like this:
>Name one instance of a monopoly forming without govt help<bring out this bad boy https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-349-08434-0_5<also thishttps://www.cairn.info/revue-francaise-d-histoire-economique-2015-1-page-28.htm
>NOO THATS NOT REAL CAPITALISM THATS MARXIST DOUBLE TALK, TRUSTS ARE NOT MONOPOLIES, CHECKMATE COMMIE<but they are>NO THEY ARE NOT BECAUSE THERE IS INCENTIVE TO BREAK COLLUSION FREE MARKET ALWAYS WINS AGAINST OLIGOPOLIES<but it doesn't, it literally says the government had to break up the trusts<WHICH FORMED MONOPOLIES THEREFORE I WINTheir dream economy is that of Milei
https://apnews.com/article/argentina-inflation-milei-economy-b742f06a3565fbcea24ff925420adf38They love controlling the narrative. It's crazy to think just how many ancaps are predators in human skin.
<If Stalin killed people like ancaps, he should have killed more. No.1795972
>>1795819Doesn't make as much sense considering she emigrated in the 1930s
No.1796188
>>1795249>They pulled me out the door, [and dragged] me down the stairs on my back>It hurt really bad and I remember yelling "you're breaking the NAP" and things like that. "Stop initiating force against me"kek
No.1796371
>>1796113Anon I appreciate many of your infoposts. It is rich, creamy and highly nutritious for you to call anyone a "conspiracy marxist" or adopt the term.
No.1796501
>>1795158Just read the first 30 pages of this. It's a tortuous and confused screed, and expresses same glaring fucking flaw as ancaps.
>Government-free "ownership" of propertyWhat does this even mean? What does it even mean to "own" something? How would you prevent someone from taking it from you?
<Defend it yourselfThen you're calling for a world where the strong can freely dominate the weak
<Hire/convince your neighbors/someone else to do itThen you're still at the whims of other, stronger groups, AND at the whims of whoever is "defending" your property i.e. you're well on your way back to having a state guarantee your property rights for you.
The anarchist critique of society is air-tight and impeccable. Unfortunately, the problems it describes are completely unsolveable. It's immensely depressing.
No.1796837
>>1796832>corporate communismJesus christ this bitch is dumb
No.1796854
>>1796837the alternative to being dumb is accepting that america has been the vanguard of global reactionary politics since 1945. you really expect americans to do that?
No.1797025
>>1796234>you can grow food or hunt, but you need property to do so and the greedy state took it allLmao. Idk about the US but here in leafland federal government land is literally a hunter's dream. You can hunt, camp, fish, and set up tree stands and duck blinds on it for free without permission. I used to live in a rural area (rural as in completely empty wilderness 15 min outside of town) surrounded by government land. Going hunting was as easy as taking a walk down the road. Now I live in an areas surrounded by private farmland and I haven't been hunting for two years because I don't have the time or energy to befriend a random farmer and get permission to hunt on their land. AnCaps confirmed as soy urbanites.
No.1797455
>>1795158>Massive concentrations of wealth, rigid economic hierarchies, and unsustainable modes of production are not the results of the market form,these people didn't read Capital, I can already tell
>Our comrades at the Center for a Stateless SocietyC4SS are glowies
>But the markets [the market anarchists] envision are not like the privilege-riddled “markets” we see around us today.why don't these people just come out as ancaps? at least some market "socialists" realize you at the very least need a state to set ground rules, such as prohibiting private wage labour
these clowns reject "government" while proposing that the regulating force of the market should control society,
which is a form of government!>market anarchists see freed markets, under conditions of free competition, as tending to diffuse wealth and dissolve fortuneshow can someone believe this when all evidence points to the opposite? the fact that wealth thermalizes is a key finding of econophysics
>market anarchists sharply distinguish between the defense of the market form and apologetics for actually-existing distributions of wealth and class divisions, since these distributions and divisions hardly emerged as the result of unfettered markets,THEY LITERALLY FUCKING DID! LOOK AT HOW THE STOCK MARKET WORKED BEFORE THERE WERE ANY LAWS AROUND IT! HOW HISTORICALLY ILLITERATE ARE THESE PEOPLE?
>Proudhon suggesting replacing laws with contractsthis is just ancap shit. who enforces these contracts?
searching the book for the word "planning" gives the usual nonsense
>the Soviet economy was le inefficient (efficient in terms of what? this is never explained)>planning doesn't work (ignore that the USSR used planning for 70 years)chapter 22 appears to be a love letter to the Austrians. chapter 44 too, but to a lesser extent
>>1796501>Then you're calling for a world where the strong can freely dominate the weakno you see this wouldn't happen because everyone would be good anarchists like these guys. it's the same "moral übermensch" nonsense that we see in a lot of anarchist texts
No.1803694
"Neoliberalism isn't real" same energy
>>1795357>those lefty anarchist Greeks are kinda being assholeslol the only good anarchists I've ever seen in my life, shut the fuck up you weak little needle dick bug fucker
>>1795708>kids having after school jibs is child abuseSettler nazi has mysteriously never heard of the "school to prison slave pipeline", doesn't know that schools were explicitly designed as prisons to turn black kids into mindless servants, and to stop gangs of all races of kids from running around causing "trouble" (i.e ruining capitalist processes of extraction)
>Thy think teens having semi skilled jobs in pkace of higher education is wasting youthSir you cannot spell, or even make a coherent argument that is aware of basic history. Stay in school kids, you'll end up as a mindless liberal ideology drone like this NPC!
>>1796813how can neo-feudalism be capitalism if feudalism wasn't capitalism?
This modern trend is about extracting rents as aristocrats, not the process of bourgeois value creation which Marxists view as historically progressive because it actually builds and improves the means of production
No.1803730
>>1803694>Settler nazi has mysteriously never heard of the "school to prison slave pipeline", doesn't know that schools were explicitly designed as prisons to turn black kids into mindless servants, and to stop gangs of all races of kids from running around causing "trouble" (i.e ruining capitalist processes of extraction)The school to prison pipeline is based on compulsory law for schooling.
Irony is, compulsory law makes life difficult for both students and teachers.
Inner city schools have delinquents sexually harass girls and fight boys and threaten teachers/staff.
Or teachers/staff do the same to students.
Its just a huge toxic social club where even if kids do get the education its all for naught.
Kids with developmental disabilites are forcd to lesrn alongside neurotypical kids and it makes them stand out, making at risk for bullying from peers and teachers.
Schools are juvenile prisons to begin with. The only purpose of public schooling is socialisation thats it.
Kids whom are book smart but socially awkward are treated as defects.
It never ceases to amase me how progressives are wilking to fight for the personal dignity of adults but will trample over children's rights.
>Sir you cannot spell, or even make a coherent argument that is aware of basic history. Stay in school kids, you'll end up as a mindless liberal ideology drone like this NPC!Yea stay in school and become a mindless NPC. We live an an era where mot young people spend more time in academia compared to their predecessors and look what happened: social awkwardness, zero technical skills, and reduced autonomy.
No.1803734
>>1795778No womder why Protestantism and Islam seem so similar despite being opposed to each other.
No.1803793
>>1797455>anarchists reject "government" shut up idiot
No.1803989
>>1803793remind me to post a picture of the local anarchists having a sticker which literally says "abolish all governments" on here later
No.1804178
>>1797455You're overthinking it, its entire point is deconverting Ancraps and getting them to question their retarded dogma on what they think capitalism is.
>these people didn't read Capital, I can already tellDuh.
>C4SS are glowiesIf they are, then they're doing a terrible job at spreading anticommunism, since most of their essays critique ancraps and lolberts.
>why don't these people just come out as ancaps?Majority are ancraps going through deconversion therapy. They still haven't let go of market fantasies. But they're beggining to realise that capitalism is causing all their issues.
>these clowns reject "government" while proposing that the regulating force of the market should control society, which is a form of government!They don't think of markets from a Marxist perspective, they see it mostly as commodity exchanges between people.
>how can someone believe this when all evidence points to the opposite? the fact that wealth thermalizes is a key finding of econophysicsAs written they are still infected by radlib shit. They write shit like 'let the free market eat the rich' and it's usually through the lenses of countereconomic action in order to compromise the big players. They don't see the long term issues of such a model.
>HOW HISTORICALLY ILLITERATE ARE THESE PEOPLE?Very.
>this is just ancap shit. who enforces these contracts?https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/economics/proudhon/1851/general-idea-of-the-revolution-in-the-nineteenth-century/study-4.htmlSO YES! They SUCK. But you're more likely to get an ancrap to read that and then read something else until they are brave enough to engage in communist literature than try to make them read Das Kapital and accept it.
>>1803793>shut up idiotWhile its not that basic, ancraps usually focus on the government / state aspect instead of unjust hierarchies and power dynamics.
No.1804181
>>1804178And another thing to note about these proclaimed left market anarchists, is that a lot of them I've come to realise aren't even hard on Proudhonians, They still cling onto the idea of property through rebranding it as 'personal property' while most proclaimed mutualists use the term possesion through usufruct.
I'm not endorsing this shit. Just showing the way they process information. They haven't got a clue about what dialectics is at that stage yet.
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