No.1815597
This is also true of most products, psychedelics aren't unique int his regard
No.1815601
>>1815599I can't name the place in Vietnam or Indonesia where my clothes were sown, or where in Kivu the coltan for the device I'm posting this on was made.
No.1815608
Anglo mindset ignoring set and setting, thinking the isolated chemical is all there is to it. Btw ayahuasca works because it combines dmt with a maoi, so even reduced to chemistry smoking dmt is a different thing.
No.1815614
>>1815601No, you can't, and that's a good point. However, those are raw materials transformed by labor into western products. I would say that's different from the appropriation of DMT, which was already an ingredient in an indigenous manufacture (ayahuasca and also various smoking blends i forget the names of). You're right that it's the same production circuit but in my opinion the appropriation of DMT is a form of "orientalism", if that makes sense.
No.1815618
>>1815614Of course sometimes these indigenous products are appropriated and fully integrated into western culture, such as coffee. We can still, obviously, question the wisdom of drinking loads of caffeine and spending 8 hours pencil pushing.
No.1815629
>Psychedelic culture
Mao and Duterte did nothing wrong.
No.1815632
>>1815596>look at my dumb right wing memes that imply psychedelic users (only the white ones) are foolish because they (sometimes) aren't christian… a religion that was forced at gunpoint by white people onto the indigenous cultures I romanticize in my subsequent greentext>hahaha le machine elf said "jesus isn't real" in this twitter political cartoon where someone put words into its mouth, that must mean they're all demons sent by satan>haha only le indigenous hunter gatherers know how to properly prepare ayahuasca. It's about the (pagan, non christian) religious rituals surrounding the preparation, you see. It has nothing to do with the actual purity and potency of the compounds. I say this after basically using a bunch of twitter posts to shit on non-Christians. >i am le essentialist, you need a vague ethereal "connection to le culture" for a psychedelic experience to be "le valid">ignore tons of psychedelics users who just enjoy having visions and unique subjective mental experiences and don't necessarily attribute any external existence to "machine elves" or whatever
<"Dude I saw a reflection of my own consciousness in the universe!"<"Dude I saw a literal evil demon trying to steal my soul!"wow you made up a straw man that says both simultaneously rather than recognizing that these are separate experiences that separate people report having
I get that a lot of SSettler psychedelics users are annoying kkkolonizer kkkarens and kkkevins and that they live rent free in your head whenever a stinky burning man style music festival rolls into town but this post is garbage and provides no deeper analysis.
t. someone who only ever used psilocybin a few times over a decade ago No.1815633
>>1815629Another leftypol ML explicitly tying themselves ideologically to a fascist, eh?
What a fucking shock
Do you faggots have anything other than vibes to justify how you aren't fash when you openly despise the proletariat and anything normal people do for fun or to pursue introspection?
Do you think proles want to be worked to death in the people's factory?
No.1815634
>>1815629>DuterteDuterte family are literally drug dealers that just murdered the competition by taking over the law enforcement apparatus of the state.
No.1815638
>>1815614>various smoking blends i forget the names ofI think you're thinking of changa, but I also don't know Quechua or Aymara, yeah I guess you could compare it to buying an "indigenous" necklace or statue in that respect.
>>1815629China has hallucigenic mushrooms that are fully legal and have been part of Yunannese cooking for centuries shut the fuck up
No.1815639
whats the point of this thread?
psychedelics like mushrooms have been taken in western europe for centuries.
And i guess the tribes charging white tourists money to take ayhusca at least makes them some money?
No.1815640
>>1815636Mate I've seen many many many MLs over the years on this board specifically (not really elsewhere) rant and rave about the need to execute people for the bourgeois act of smoking a fucking plant
No.1815643
>>1815640some imageboard users become such big hikikimoris that they can't find a weed dealer to show them the light of drug usage.
t. Been there
No.1815644
>>1815632Why do you dumbasses keep agreeing with me but getting really angry as if you're arguing with the people I'm criticizing?
This happens every time I make a thread lmao. I guess that means I'm doing something right!
No.1815647
>>1815639It's about orientalist attitudes with DMT in particular, OP wouldn't have issues with LSD (unambiguously European) or mushrooms which are fairly universal . I've tried all three, and without cultural context and ceremony the difference between these things are in intensity and duration rather than in actual effects.
No.1815648
>>1815639I didn't make this thread with you in mind. you seem to already understand my point.
No.1815649
>>1815643Personally I don't even think weed or any other substance is good, I lost 8 years of my life to cannabis addiction, I just think that it's delusional to pretend like you want to "liberate" the working class when every other word you say makes it very clear you think the ideal life is to work, eat, and sleep in an endless cycle, only with welfare and the state owns your workplace instead of a private firm
If you think smoking cannabis should be a "crime" (or imo in the farce called law in general) you shouldn't continue pretending that you want any society that promotes autonomy and self-organization for laborers.
No.1815650
>>1815633>Do you think proles want to be worked to death in the people's factory?No, the proles want to be drug addicts and be cucked by drug cartels/bigpharma.
No.1815654
>>1815650Imagine thinking the two paths are humans ceasing to ever use any sort of psychoactive substance for the first time since the evolution of the earliest hominids or the mass addictive cycle promoted by capitalist markets and calling yourself a materialist
The problem isn't that humans use psychoactive substances you self-deluding pseudo-Christcuck, the problem is that making people addictive to substances is profitable. You'd think a "Marxist" could understand that.
No.1815658
>>1815633>pursue introspectionYou don't need drugs for that. Just isolate yourself inside a empty room for months. This is how you pursue introspection, you drug consoomer retard.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recluse No.1815659
>>1815658That's simply not practical for the vast majority of people
No.1815662
>>1815658>Hehe, dumb bourgeois fag saying some people use psychoactive substances to introspect<Just lock yourself in a black room that everyone definitely owns for an indeterminate amount of time until you naturally hallucinate.Yea I rest my case
And introspection wasn't the justification for using psychoactive substances, it's a reason some do it
The answer is that people do not need to justify it
You've no right to state what people can or cannot do with their lives and bodies while pretending to be any sort of socialist
You're yet another liberal death drive freak desperate for identity and purpose that's already embraced fascism and need to taint the concept of socialism to attach yourself to it
No.1815674
>>1815644i could say the same to you
No.1815675
>>1815643>the light of drug usage.depends on the substance, how much, how often, and for what purpose. medical marijuana (especially edibles since those don't trash your respiratory system) is fine. Psychedelics on special occasions for spiritual purposes is fine. Alcohol, Heroin, Cocaine, Opiates etc. are highly addictive and not fine.
No.1815680
>>1815675They're dangerous substances, but, again, why do you consistently claim to want liberation when in fact you want to control people the ways that liberals and fascists do?
Were I you I would never want a communist revolution to happen, because if it did, pseudo-Christcuck academics that bitterly despise the ruling elites only because they want their seat will either remain powerless or even die trying to take control of the masses
Westoid academics that fancy themselves the vanguard wouldn't do well in a communist revolution that successfully abolishes the class system, at least if they seek to take over
No.1815682
>>1815675Alcohol, heroin, cocaine all have legitimate medical usage too, people are built different and have different needs, you can't seem to get that through your head
No.1815689
>>1815682For the record, I believe all drugs should be legalized and addicts require safe spaces to consume their drugs legally to prevent withdrawl symptoms, and should get free socialized help without shame or blame from society to overcome their addictions. However, you're just using liberal "inclusivity" language to justify the use of substances with nearly zero redeeming qualities. alcohol increases cancer rates in literally every bodily tissue it touches, from the mouth to the urethra. The only justifiable medical use for heroin is to prevent withdrawl symptoms in people who are already addicted to it. And cocaine will rot your nose right off your face and give you various nasal and pharyngeal cancers.
No.1815693
>>1815689Meat is also carcinogenic and its production relies on the subjugation and brutal murder of non-human animals
So you willing to go vegan too?
No.1815694
>>1815689>The only justifiable medical use for heroin is to prevent withdrawl symptomsAgain, there are chronic pain conditions for which opiates are the only effective medical relief
No.1815695
>>1815682Alcohol especially is bad for the chaos it causes in society. It brings out the worst and most anti-social behavior in some people, it causes them to be incompetent at piloting vehicles. So many avoidable deaths and violent crimes happen under the influence of alcohol. Some people become so highly disinhibited and violent while on alcohol that the can't even be convinced to surrender their keys by their own friends when they're about to attempt to drive while drunk. You've clearly never had to suffer living with alcoholics.
No.1815697
>>1815693I'm already vegan. nice gotcha attempt.
>>1815694Yes, refined pharmaceutical opiates for pain relief is fine. Injecting black tar heroin that you bought from a drug dealer who bought it from a cartel that trafficks humans however is just an avoidable social tragedy. I should have been more nuanced.
No.1815704
>>1815680You're just saying a bunch of shit in response to stuff I didn't say and probably assuming I'm multiple people that you're having a conversation with. Get a grip.
No.1815706
So does OP have an argument or is it another white lib crying about white people and toe jogan for the bazillionth time?
No.1815707
>>1815696Indeed
Part of the reasoning liberals and those with a liberal disposition (read, many so-called communists) are driven to slaughter the innocent is because they do not have mental outlets and can only respond to difference with avatistic fear, which breeds anger and hatred.
There isn't a coherent reason to claim you are a communist and also attempt to regulate what people's autonomy.
This is especially comical to do on an imageboard where pretending to want some abstraction called "liberation" will gain you nothing.
Who are you manipulating? Yourself? You're fooling no one.
No.1815743
>>1815596>a plant chemical's effects are absolutely connected to this specific cultureAnother day, another "leftist" banger.
No, plants exist regardless of specific human cultures. There is no more or less metaphysically valid way to cook potatoes or extract flower oils. Just because you can attack settlers on this point doesn't mean you should.
No.1815885
>>1815711>Communism isn't about abolishing class distinctions so people can do what they want with their livesOh boy, another fascist that's too dumb and lacking in self-awareness to even know he is because he thinks "communism" is when you LARP a country that no longer exists
Cute
No.1815887
>>1815885he did not write that
No.1815892
>>1815887Of course he didn't, if he did he would be self-aware and probably have an idea of what communism is and means
No he wrote jargon that doesn't actually mean anything to justify why his ideal for a hypothetical future society and real life abolitionist movement that purports to be progressive centers around a government from the past
Whenever someone starts drooling from the mouth about how
>Communism is about class, not freedom and autonomy!You can assume they have no clue what communism is about nor a coherent idea of what the movement seeks to achieve
No.1815904
>>1815892>Whenever someone starts drooling from the mouth about how <Communism is about class, not freedom and autonomy!>You can assume they have no clue what communism is about nor a coherent idea of what the movement seeks to achieveIf you read carefully, the post you are responding to said Communism isn't about
individual autonomy. Your "freedom" to consume substances that fuck up your health, make you unable to operate a vehicle or perform a job, and make you an unnecessary burden on the rest of the proletariat is not real "freedom." Your "freedom" to oppress yourself and everyone around you by getting sloshed and then running over a child is not the kind of freedom communism is going for. "Freedom" as spoken about by the bourgeoisie is a trojan horse and a false signifier. Hope this helps! If you really insist on trashing your body and then leaving a mess for everyone else to clean up, it's not like I can stop you. This is the type of "Freedom" capitalism upholds!
No.1815912
>>1815904I am addressing that nonsensical post
If you think the end goal of communism is for there to still be a "working class" then you aren't a communist, you're a retarded LARPer like the majority of this board
Class society naturally denies the vast majority of individuals autonomy, dumbass
Notice how everything you said amounts to liberal whining about people not presenting the way you want to or shit about how it makes people worse at their job?
Sick of you LARPer dumbasses, you'd be so much happier organizing with rightoids that not only have a more realistic chance at power in their near future but also similarly want to deny individual autonomy, instead you go out of your way to shit up what little radical space is left in the world
No.1815915
Religion is opium for the people, but drugtards like OP treat opium as their religion.
No.1815932
Guys, white people have ruined FunkoPop Culture. They don't get it, that people just want to have fun and pursue introspection. If you think FunkoPop Culture is stupid, you are just another liberal death drive freak desperate for identity and purpose that's already embraced fascism. This is literally imperialism!
No.1815940
Like
>>1815597 said this is how the imperial recuperates p much any subversive culture is brought back into the fold. That being said as someone who greatly enjoys psyches I fucking LOATHE the type of guy your describing and have gotten in heated arguements with them. They basically think a cool and fun experience caused by your 5HT2a receptors is basically god and/or the universe telling them how much of special boy they are. ofc it never occurs to them thats already there worldview and now there main character syndrome is worse than ever before. Not to mention the ones who use it as evidence of woo-woo. I'll sit down in explain in detail how psychedelics work on a pharmacological level and the answer is always some variation of "well at the time I couldn't understand or comprehend it so decades of research is irrelevant and its must totally be magic, If I can't understand it than no one else can and its evidence of the supernatural/spiritworld". I suppose what I am trying to get at here is despite being a powerful tool for introspection and analysis pscyhs are not capable of overcoming the idealistic capitalist brainworms many of there users possess and these experience just get absorbed into that mindset instead of changing it. For example Ik some dipshit rich kid who took alotta shrooms and came to the conclusion we all live in a simulation and he's the chosen one meant to break us all out. Nothing about his world view as a spoiled rich kid changed but now its just infected with woo woo nonsense.
>>1815608this
>>1815640tbh these users are some of the most annoying ppl on the site literally just your stereotypical 4chan user with boilerplate socially conservative opinions that exist to cope with the fact that they don't go out and then pretend they understand marxism. thank god there shuttins and don't actually participate in orgs.
No.1815968
Drugtards remind me of apple and star wars fans. They believe, that consooming a certain product makes them special. Consooming is their entire life. I also love the cope tgat drugtards believe, drugs "enhances their minds" lmao consoomer slaves wasting all their money on literal poison.
No.1815972
>>1815968Does it baffle the mind that there are actually people that don't have an impotent need to control others?
Why the actual fuck do you care if someone else does a drug?
Does it make you feel icky you fucking fag?
If you feel icky seeing people suffering in addiction maybe get them medical help instead of making it illegal to have a disease?
If you think the horrors of capitalism aren't why addiction is so prevalent and dangerous in our society why do you call yourself a materialist?
No.1816152
>>1816107Ah yes, the
>I was only pretending to be a conservacuck faggotDefense spineless dorks trot out whenever they face pushback
At least own being a barely reformed rightoid like the other retards
No.1816177
>>1815912>If you think the end goal of communism is for there to still be a "working class" then you aren't a communist, you're a retarded LARPer like the majority of this board under communism the proletariat is the ruling class and work will still need to be done. Thinking communism means you're finally free to just recreationally get trashed all day and that you have no broader duties to society is the real LARP.
No.1816183
>>1815644Anon agreed with some points in your post but disagreed with the framing. Try not to pat yourself on the back too hard.
>>1815949oop
No.1816204
>>1816177>Under communism there are still classesMLs again proving they genuinely don't even know what is proclaimed by their own ideal of communism
It really is something when you don't even know what Stalin's baby leftist explanation of communism proposes
LARPers are even useless to their own worthless selves
No.1816214
>>1816204Under communism the proletariat is the only class, and the ruling class, and in that sense there are no longer classes, plural, but the proletariat is still in control.
Anyway, you're playing dumb. Stop derailing the conversation from the main point: Work will still need to be done under Communism and that means you are not "free" to practice "individual autonomy" by getting fucking trashed on the job. Dig the fucking hole.
No.1816215
>>1816214Even according to ML "theory" there are no classes under Communism, holy fuck please read a book for once in your useless life you violent retard
No.1816217
>>1816215>>1816214>Hyuck hyuck there's still work to be doneSure, and you weird sexless academic freakazoids won't be around waving guns at people telling them what to do is this difficult to understand?
The ideal society you're promoting isn't communist and under it you'd likely be as powerless as anyone you think you'd get to kill, do you not get this?
No.1816219
It's always nice to have illiterate stalinist fucktards shit up thread after thread with their fantasies of executing working class people while they contribute literally fucking nothing to the world
No.1816220
>>1816219Calm down don't let the needle fall out of your arm sweaty
No.1816226
>>1816214>being opposed to bougie prohibitionist policies means you want to get trashed at worklol…. lmao even
No.1816228
>>1816226Sociology based on the burger drug war is flawed because it posits the goal of burger drug wars is to eradicate drugs not monopolize distribution of opiates and smuggled/controlled substances with their own Manson-lite informoids
No.1816232
>>1816220At least you admit you've never even engaged with your own stalinist theory before coming to this shitty board to promote nonsense like
>COMMUNISM IS WHEN THE PARTY OFFICER POINTS A GUN AT THE PROLES AND MAKES THEM DIG HOLES AT THE THREAT OF DEATH FOR THE PEOPLE'S CANALJesus fucking Christ, either you people need to get laid or better yet never threaten a mam or woman with your presence
No.1816234
>>1816231To be more direct, a healthy society can use drugs and bike wheels in a healthy manner
No.1816235
>>1816231Heroin and other opiods should be restricted substances, medically distributed by public healthcare to people in need of pain relief.
>>1816232Still not that anon you screeching, debased humanoid.
No.1816238
>>1816235People should be allowed to biy them in quantities of their own discretion without question just as they are allowed to purchase a million other toxic substances.
No.1816240
>>1816238No they shouldn't.
No.1816246
>>1816243Because you're possessed by the ghost of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, a huge pimp dripping with drug money. We need to exorcise you and get people help from heroin addiction in community-reintegration rehab places instead of shoving them into prisons or stupid cults.
No.1816247
>>1816235You may as well be if you feel the need go defend them you pathetic uberfaggot
No.1816248
>>1816246A lot of proles use heroin on the job no problem. I know some.
No.1816249
>>1816248Wow, I had no idea I was surrounded my meth and opioid addicts who use to cope with work. I'm reconsidering everything rn
No.1816250
>>1816249How is it any less of a cope than being a western marxist?
No.1816253
>>1816250Because this LARP makes him feel powerful even while the death camps are being prepped for all of us
No.1816254
Bitch I knew high schoolers who smoked meth. They had your dream of accessing whatever they could buy lmao social libertarianism or anarchism or whatever is going on in this thread is just that extended to everybody. Sounds like fucking shit! And no sociologist would ever go that far because the original arguments are based off lowering public health costs and violence and police militarization. Once you go in this opposite direction it's evident how corrosive that restoring opium-era China or the laissez faire Bayer cannabis-opium tincture for babies vibes would be disastrous anywhere
No.1816264
>>1816260That's not true. It's a two pronged class war strategy. If you think a bunch of drug addicts are going to react against their bosses, you didn't give that impression with your remarks like "I know lots of workers who do opiods at work" and "lmao who cares there is no revolution coming in the imperial core anyways, might as well be numb" as if my argument was based on how workers don't deserve pain relief
No.1816265
>>1816254Neither I nor most people have any to engage with dangerously addictive substances such as heroin or cocaine or others, even in nations where such substances are legal most people do not actually use them, as someone that wasted years of their life with cannabis I have 0 desire to even smoke weed.
However, and I know this will always be impossible for barely reformed poltards that only drifted to MLism as another excuse to Rvturn to Tradition and never get over conservative spooks; some people genuinely do not give a fuck what other people do with their lives so long as they are not harming or exploitating others
Some people understand that the majority of social harm caused by psychoactive and chemical substances stems from their existence as products on a market for exchange and a society that violently penalizes the ailment that is addiction, relies on coercion to function, and contains poverty as a necessary feature for existence
Some people do not see addiction as a problem because they are sickened by addicts, but rather because addicts are sick
The solution isn't to control people through violence, but to offer assistance where it is needed
Obviously this is something that internet MLs cannot do and would never do, considering most solutions they offer, especially the leftypol variety, amount to violent and endless retribution against the proles they came to represent, but what I have stated is the actual position of myself and most "pro-drug" (anti-punitive) people ITT
Anyway go back to the violent retard LARP and fatal misunderstandings of your own ML theory, TED talk over
No.1816267
>>1816264> If you think a bunch of drug addicts are going to react against their bosses,I don't see it as a factor one way or the other but I would think the less square the more likely to rebel. Seems intuitive.
No.1816268
>>1816264>If you think a bunch of drug addicts are going to react against their bossesThey are far more likely to than social conservatives locked in the ideology of bowing down to the top of the hierarchy that you chinlet dorks fetishize
No.1816269
>>1816265>Neither I nor most people have any to engage with dangerously addictive substances such as heroin or cocaine or others, even in nations where such substances are legal most people do not actually use themSo you're going to start off by telling me you're completely out of touch with drug abuse as a social problem? Cocaine is way less common than meth and fent etc but I have had many coworkers in the service industry huffing that shit. Very common in manufacturing and driving and construction. Idiotic introduction.
Why are we even debating a solution to it then? Let's all just head out.
No.1816274
>>1816268You seem to be interested in making a lot of emphatic denunciations without making specific arguments, and developing tulpas about posters rather than engaging with what they're saying. Have you considered fucking off to reddit or perhaps dying?
No.1816284
>>1816269The solutions aren't going to come from the social conservative spooks on this fucking board, will they?
I'm sorry but if you despise addicts you don't have any more solutions than the liberals and fascists you share ideological continuity with
>YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, ADDICTS ARE DISGUSTING, THEY ARE DEGENERATES, A DISEASENo they're sick, polyp weirdo
If you think people wouldn't end up in cycles of addiction once internet freaks get their wish and get to point rifles at their coworker's head to make them toil at the people's construction site rather than the privately owned construction site I don't know what to say other than look up the rates of alcohol addiction in Eastern Europe throughout the 20th Century
>>1816274Yea I know you fags never say what you actually say, I need to beat around the bushes of your mealy mouthed bullshit to give you your little liberal civility curtsy rather than cut the bullshit and get at the heart of your right wing fucking nonsense
No.1816286
>>1816284Greentexting, the telltale sign of a child without the attention span to read. You think I hate myself and all my coworkers because you can only speculate about the conditions of the working class and never experienced them.
Why not attack heroinanon for making facile arguments like "heroin doesn't impede their productivity, it should be an OTC drug" lol? That's closer to your fantasy of the guy you think actually wanted to point a gun at you because they posted a meme
No.1816287
Funny I have a friend who served 6 years for serving crack. It was funny when I was hanging out with him we kept running into all these people like at the bank and everywhere who knew him and they would enthusiastically come up and say hello. I commented one time and he said "how do you think I know all these people anon? I used to sell them crack!"
Funny to me compared with all the media portrayal of dealers.
No.1816288
>>1816287And the informant competitor who treats his crackheads like shit is still out there I bet
No.1816289
>>1816286I've worked consistently for my entire adult life, most people I know drink alcohol or smoke weed frequently, thinking "working class is when construction job" is another telltale sign…of a fucking LARPer lmao
Goddamn, imagine doing idpol about doing fent in construction vs drinking constantly in retail
No.1816292
>>1816289I think you should go to bed if you feel pressure to respond but are incapable of articulating a single thought. If you think there aren't working class laborers involved on construction projects you're just reaching for a gotcha
No.1816293
>>1816286Because that dude isn't retardedly claiming the problem is primarily a chemical and not primarily capitalism?
>You don't understand, I see heroin addicts up close!I live in NYC dude I see fent addicts almost every other fucking day and cannabis wrecked up my life something fierce, sorry I don't let these things allow me to easily be emotionally manipulated into focusing on something other than the capitalist system of coercion and exploitation as the many culprit behind addiction
No.1816294
>>1816293I think you're fucking retarded my man you haven't figured out a single thing I'm trying to say because your need to conjure a sectarian boogeyman based on another guy who went to bed is so intense. We could be talking about the history of drug trafficking rn. But no, you want me to unpack your unhinged meta-commentary on the thread. Fuck you. This is uninformative.
No.1816296
>>1816292I genuinely don't know how to explain things such that an ML can understand them, even in English, like, how do you explain things to someone whose identity is built around not understanding anyone that doesn't shower praise upon them?
No mate, I'm not claiming that
construction workers aren't workers, I'm stating that whenever you speak to someone online, 9 times out of 10 they work for a living, even if they don't work in an assembly line or construction yard. Most people work retail.
No.1816297
>>1816294Probably because you won't let the discussion move past perfomative whining about le evil chemicals that must be banned instead of pointing out that this is the first society we know of where addiction is an epidemic crisis?
No.1816298
Construction workers are the biggest meth heads lmao.
No.1816299
>>1816296I referenced the drug addiction in the service industry, where 50% of American workers are occupied, specifically. Less than ten minutes ago. In the same sentence I talked about construction workers.
No.1816300
>>1816297>the first society we know of where addiction is an epidemic crisis?Are you using royal 'we'? Meaning the society you live in is the first one you know of with epidemic drug use? Having invested no energy into historical investigation?
No.1816301
>>1816298Anyone else in construction gonna back me up? If you are you know a dozen meth heads easy lol.
No.1816302
>>1816300Without defining any amount of substance use in a human society as "addiction" what prior societies contained heavy addiction to substances to the point of social crisis? Tell me about the medieval opioid epidemic. Or the worldwide alcoholism plague prior to capitalism. Or widespread tobacco addiction prior to the cultivation of tobacco for profit on plantations.
No.1816304
>1816302
Idk why you are expecting retarded essentialism when I specifically mentioned two examples already which are connected to the European pharma monopolists that still persist today and their opium plantations in asia and afghanistan
No.1816308
If you want me to get into alcohol, the whole reason we had a prohibition is because they created a class of alcohol which is 10x stronger and qualitatively different in its ability to get people wasted, its dehydrating and throat destroying ability. I grew up in an environment of children destroying their lives with barely controlled liquor, as young as 13, and I'm sure you'd blame that on the ineffective prohibition itself.
No.1816309
>>1816304If we're in agreement then what are we arguing about exactly? My only, sole point that infuriates conservative fucktards here is stating that in a communist society, humans would likely continue to use psychoactive substances, as they have in all societies, just as all societies have made music, made visual art, had cultural expectations around sex, and the like; a relatively sane non-controversial statement people have been losing their shit over because they interpret it as
>HOLY SHIT YOU THINK METH ADDICTION IS GOOD!!!!!!??????111111It's nonsensical and childish and reeks of rightoid aesthetician spooks
No.1816311
>>1816309I don't know, are you arguing that everything should be an over-the-counter drug, or be completely decriminalized to the level that controlled distribution doesn't restrict shit?
No.1816316
>>1816315I don't think everyone over the age of 18 should be able to buy heroin, no, we are not in agreement then. Liquor would be fine if people weren't financially pressured towards getting drunk off a shot of Everclear. Literally knew high schoolers who did that.
No.1816321
>>1816316>shot of everclearuygha mix it what are you doing lmao.
Yes people should be allowed to buy heroin. It is funny how much stuff is don't ask don't tell in the usa as well. Growing opium poppies is so much that way I remember my doctor auntie was considering it. And i guess that was her medical opinion on opium, very nicccee.
No.1816322
List of shit that should be otc after adulthood:
- weed & liquor
- areca nut, tobacco, qhat, blue lotus, kava, other shit like this
- COFFEE 🤩 even tho it makes me bitchy and then psycho mmmmmmm tasty
No.1816324
>>1816321That guy also huffed gasoline he's an outlier. Also knew a guy who got fent and was infamous for pulling his dick out like the seinfeld episode. I'm horrified to realize this thread isn't in /b/ but I've been persistently bumping it. Goodnight
No.1816326
>>1816322I agree and you should have to buy psychedelics at a licensed dispensary
No.1816329
>>1816324Well loke you laid out, ban every drug lnown to man and this guy would still be ingesting industrial chemicals in search of his high. I say giving him less toxic alternatives might improve his health outcomes.
No.1816330
>>1816215>>1816217>>1816226the original context of the conversation is lost on you. scroll up.
No.1816333
>>1816331Illegal drugs is bad because they are chock full of heavy metals mmkay.
No.1816337
>>1816311I'm arguing that people should be able to get help if they need it, that addiction isn't something that happens in a vacuum and isn't solely a product of chemical substances, and that although I do not know what recreational substances would be produced in a communist society I would assume such substances would exist as they have in all societies and that the primary focus should always be supporting addicts and getting them reintegrated into their communities.
I'm saying that so many of the conservatives here, like run-of-the-mill pro-capitalist right wingers, seem like they are actively straining to not acknowledge that the conditions that lead to addiction are socially produced and not only a product of someone using a chemical substance. Have you ever considered that almost everyone is addicted to something in capitalist society? This is a society that induces compulsive behaviors in people, for some it will be addiction to chemical compounds ranging from the extremely dangerous like fentanyl to the relatively benign like caffeine, for some it will be addiction to compulsive habits that are not chemically binding at all like gaming, porn-usage, or shopping. What matters is that this sort of compulsion encourages people to spend money, and whether that money gets spent on the black market or the surface what matters is that the money sloshes around and the line goes up.
I'm saying, if we look at it as materialists we would move beyond asking whether or not chemical and psychoactive substances "should" exist and rather how society conditions people's relationship with such substances.
No.1816339
>>1816337>ion to chemical compounds ranging from the extremely dangerous like fentanyl to the relatively benign like caffeine, for some it will be addiction to compulsive habits that are not chemically binding at all like gaming, porn-usage, or shopping.Blehh just because they aren't drugs doesn't make them "relatively benign." People ruin their lives with sober compulsions just as people live with managed drug use.
Drugs can help people get over compulsions and obsessions even.
No.1816341
Anyways isn't it better to create a society where people don't eish to kill each other rather than just one where they don't have the means? That is the guns argument but maybe there is one where people can use drugs respinsibly just as they might drink responsibly.
No.1816342
>>1816339Relatively benign as in not chemically addictive to the degree opiates and amphetamines are, not relatively benign as in they cannot ruin your life through compulsion
But even then, you're pinning this on the wrong thing. You're essentially doing liberal moralizing and whining about aesthetics and thinking you are not. This is an extremely common problem on this
8chan derived board. The problem isn't that video games are evil. The problem isn't that psychoactive substances are evil. The problem isn't that even getting off to depictions of sex is evil.
The problem is that capitalism conditions unhealthy relationships with all of these things. With the inherently compulsive mechanism of competitive market exchanges. With the immense trauma capitalism induces on the lives of most people whether or not they can consciously realize it. With the combination of mind-numbing boredom, constant coercion, and immense pressure to expend oneself to the maximum level in capitalist labor systems. Capitalist society encourages people to become addicts in every way imaginable, and like most social ills it conditions, the only solution the bourgeois state can usually muster is repressive violence that often only worsens the compulsions it conditions in people. It's distressing how many people earlier argued that the problem with substance use is that it worsens people's work quality rather than people's working conditions encouraging them to use substances to cope with their lives. At least that got turned around.
No.1816345
>>1816343Well sounds like i would be subject to your personal opinion on penalty of death and there is no upside. Logically killing you would be the first step in this hypothetical society.
No.1816346
>>1816345You are correct.
No.1816347
>>1816341That's also what I'm getting at.
The solution isn't to try and fail at creating a society where people don't use mind-altering substances, it never has existed and likely never will, even the Soviets failed to ban alcohol.
The solution is to target the social conditions that lead people into addiction and self-destruction. Marxists would do well to remember Engels' concept of social murder rather than using Soviet government policy and old propaganda to justify conservative revulsion at social ills and things that are technically neutral like chemical substances.
No.1816349
>>1816342I never used this when it was on 8chan. At this point you've got to expect whoever the gayest people are inviting or incidentally attracting to be here. Conversely Qanon-style tards are just newsmax watchers most of whom never touched 8ch but their community has had wide reaching influence. This board shakes like a reed in the wind and absorbs whatever new trend or discourse occurs into contrarian shitflinging matches. Is this proof leftypol is not a Pentagon psyop? Maybe
No.1816361
>>1816349I honestly dont think the board is being psyoped, I think the problem is that the internet as a whole is culturally lurching towards fascism and leftypol has had a problem with taking cues from 4chan for the entire time I've used it, about half a decade by now. Leftypol has always had at least a subsect of its population that is deeply socially conservative.
No.1816371
>>1815640As an ML (call it whatever you like), I don't have a problem with this conceptually. It's more like we should look at it the other way around. You are being too generous. A fascist is precisely a failed ML.
No.1816378
>>1815658>empty room for monthsIf you want to go truly insane. Stupid idea.
No.1816379
>>1816378So I presume you are truly sane then?
No.1816382
>>1816379Sanest I've ever been
No.1816400
>>1816382So not sane then…
No.1816404
>>1816403So psychosis you're saying?
No.1816405
>>1816404lel
barking up the wrong tree
No.1816406
>>1815596>>Prepare it improperly>>Have absolutely no connection to the culture, probably could not locate the tribes that made ayahuasca on a map, have learned none of the history, art, language, literatureAh yes the magical indian blood makes it so they have a supernatural connection to chemicals that makes it "proper".
No.1816408
>>1815596>>"Dude I saw a reflection of my own consciousness in the universe!">>"Dude I saw a literal evil demon trying to steal my soul!"This both happened to me btw. And I didn't need any drugs for it!
No.1816409
>>1816408>This both happened to me btw. And I didn't need any drugs for it!Lmao exactly. A million schizos telling everyone why they can't use drugs. Just kys. We don't care.
No.1816410
>>1816409I don't have a problem with drugs
No.1816411
>>1816410I know, you said you have a problem with being sober. Good on you for not using drugs. Just leave the rest of us out of it.
No.1816413
>>1816411I love being sober. You are boring.
No.1816415
>>1816413You said you have paranoid schizophrenia without drugs. You imply you don't need drugs. I agree. I can't say medically what help you need. You figure it out.
No.1816419
>>1816418You said you see demons.
No.1816422
>>1816419It's metaphorical
No.1816443
>>1816440Thanks for your effort anon. She's 83 and my dad died along time ago. I don't think anyone has tried since you. You're a godsend truly.
No.1816446
>>1816443You must be way too old to be here
No.1816447
>>1816446But my mom is not too old for your dick. Good on you zoomie anon.
No.1816449
>>1816447I don't even know what you want. Let's agree we are both freaks and go our separate ways.
No.1816556
>>1815596The best DMT doesn't come the plants used in ayahuasca. I swear you fucking PoC Americans are the most reactionary pieces of shit on God's Earth, right after the children of Yakub.
No.1816557
>>1816556Wir sagen ja zu MDMA, deine Ma is eine Schlampe, sie fickt deinen Pa
No.1816570
>>1816554>this is maoism"We Communists must be able to integrate ourselves with the masses in all things. If our Party members spend their whole lives sitting indoors and never go out to face the world and brave the storm, what good will they be to the Chinese people? None at all, and we do not need such people as Party members. We Communists ought to face the world and brave the storm the great world of mass struggle and the mighty storm of mass struggle.
As for people who are politically backward, Communists should not slight or despise them, but should befriend them, unite with them, convince them and encourage them to go forward.
Communists must always go into the why's and wherefore's of anything, use their own heads and carefully think over whether or not it corresponds to reality and is really well founded; on no account should they follow blindly and encourage slavishness."
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/red-book/ch28.htm No.1816615
>>1816443>>1816440<Anon helped anons mum feel pleasure again in her last decades.That's nice! :)
No.1816616
>>1816615Two words: cryogenic rape
No.1816622
If you take OP seriously you are a Fascist
No.1816625
The real drug imperialism is how unregulated cheap drugs is responsible for the destruction of agriculture and growth of psychotic rapist gangbangers across South America
No.1816747
>>1816622Just a tool for Reaganomics as they usually spew the same shit takes that neocons have had from the war on drugs they created.
No.1816762
>>1816232My man, if you are on this site then you aren‘t getting pussy either and if you have one then nobody wants it
No.1816774
>>1815743They have had a cultural signifiance for thousands of years until Catholics decided to colonize the people using them and ban them. Paul Staments despite being a retarded pseudo-conservative wrote a great book on this topic in his early days where he talked about the history of the Maya civilization and a ton of others which have had a large culture revolving around the use of psychadelic psilocybin mushrooms.
There has also been evidence of rituals in Greece revolving around the use of said mushrooms (The Eleusinian Mysteries) and even famous philosopher such as Plato and Aristotle participating in them.
Paul Staments makes a lot of strong arguments that they have contributed to a large part of our evolution. Albeit I still think the stoned ape theory is something to be skeptical about.
No.1816784
>>1816774Here are a few of the first pages of his book (
Psilocybin mushrooms of the world) where he started off with the history of the psychadelic mushrooms. It is a bit hard to read from these scans, but I think its manageable. I have a physical copy of the book and I found it to be very enjoyable with little to no conservative agenda. The large part of the first chapters if anything is an anti-imperialist stance.
No.1816808
>uhm have you paid tribute to the heckin indigenous folx before drinking the shit tasting juice that makes you hallucinate
cmon m8, doing drugs isn't settler colonialism. you can call them retards without doing that. who cars (2006)
No.1816911
Day 3
Jesus tapdancing Christ, how are you "guys" getting this defensive over this? All I'm saying, all I was ever fucking saying, in case any of you have some good faith confusion about this, was don't necessarily trust a western "psychonaut's" take on a thousand year-old tradition from another culture he's not a part of. That's it. I didn't say "kill all white people" but fuck me if this isn't making me want to do that anyway lmfao.
No.1816913
>>1816911No one is defensive, your op was just retarded and you are a faggot and everyone agreed because you are objectively so.
No.1816917
>>1816911you'd think the board would just have fun dunking on lolbert idealism but its the usual "ackshually this violent austerity policy implemented by every capitalist regime is TRVE socialism and if you disagree get executed degenerate. yes I am serious marxist" debate again
No.1816947
>>1816917You're right m8 & might I add this is the actual white fragility, the grain of truth underneath that stupid woman's book. Unable to self-reflect even in the anonymity of an Internet forum. They just have to chimp out because they know it's true. Case in point:
>>1816913 No.1816956
>>1816911Plants don't "belong" to cultures. Nor do drugs. You think the people doing cocaine on someone's ass is thinking "omg I'm doing a hecking andean ritual".
Your OP is dumb as hell, extremely liberal, patronizing and colonial. Not surprising coming from an American, entitled pricks.
Yeah all the woowoo new age people are crypto or outright fascist. They're filled with petit and booj bon vivants. Surprise surprise, this has been a thing since the nature fucks and deep ecology Schizos who later on became the Nazi youth and Nazis in general.
Plants aren't sacred. Plants don't belong to cultures. Smoke weed. Smoke DMT. Do whatever the fuck you want and stop listening to american fucktards clutching pearls about fucking anything except their bloody fucking foreign policy killing millions and being the #1 barrier to world progress and the end to the destruction of our planet.
Americans…..
No.1816959
>>1816911It's this exact essentialising of schizo drugs that makes your thread shit, actually.
No.1816969
One more fucking thing.
You, American OP dumbass MF, do NOT use any food that comes from a culture your country has ravaged.
>Be fucktard burger colonial liberal moron
>Extract food from indigenous culture you invaded, colonised, ravaged, couped, destroyed
>Prepare it improperly
>Have absolutely no connection to the culture, probably could not locate the tribes that made tomato, potato, avocado, corn, paprika, bell peppers, chickens, cows, pigs, rice, flour on a map, have learned none of the history, art, language, literature
>"Dude I like burger!!!"
>"Dude I burger is so good!"
You fucktards make my blood boil.
No.1817070
True but a lot of communists could benefit from tripping there balls off every now and then.
Besides, mushrooms grow pretty much all over the world, even more fun you can look for them like a real oogabooga cave man!
No.1817116
>>1816969chill out man, imperialism and shit aside, people eating food 'they have absolutely no connection with' doesn't harm anyone
No.1817127
>>1817116I think he was parodying op anon…
No.1817143
>>1817116It was clearly ironic
No.1817197
>>1816762Hardcore projection
No.1817447
>>1816911>kill all white peoplei would have less of a problem if you said that tbdesu, i'm just extremely confused about your op and what you express here, especially since these are 2 different things. how does the act of drinking ayahuasca invoke a specific culture? does this mean the tribes who used it for ceremonies "own" it? is their purpose in gaining insight, spiritual experiences, and healing of the mind different from what most people in the west already use it for? is it wrong to use recreationally if that is truly the case? what harm does it do when a jre fan takes it and says something stupid? if he's referring to the cultures that used it historically, does that constitute the practice of settler colonialism? i just don't get your point, the only way to interpret this is as ayahuasca holding some essential connection to the native groups who used it and anyone who uses it without their permission is being a settler, and if that's your point, then i disagree, it's silly to say that apes getting high and spouting stupid shit could be anything other than a racist or insensitive remark from a historical angle.
No.1817459
>>1815596OK, non-whites can keep their drugs while whites get exclusive access to white inventions like firearms, toilets, and trains. Sound good?
No.1817483
>>1817459shut the fuck up retard
No.1817578
>>1817459Whether you're jesting or a /pol/yp taking potshots, you're still right. This is the logical conclusion of this type of schizotypic associative thinking.
No.1817591
>>1817459Pigskins didn't invent gunpowder, firearms, or algebra, is this really the route you want to go down, disgusting pigger?
No.1817679
>>1817459>>1816947ITT:
>guys isn't funny that silicon valley tech bros think they're deep for popping psychs and doing noble savage theory but with ayahuasca ceremonies
<WHY TF DO YOU HATE WHITE PEOPLEE!!!!!<[insert /pol/ talking point here]<VNDER TRVE SSOCIALISM ALL DEGENERATE POT SMOKERS WILL BE SHOT!!!!!! No.1817680
>>1817679>scoll upQuote the first three words in op
>>1815596>>Be white man No.1817699
>>1817680omg some said wyt man im so scurred!!!!! fuckin pussy just post some stale ass 2016 "its ok to be white" meme and go back
No.1817700
>>1817699Damn what triggered you?
No.1817720
>>1817700>triggereddid you time travel from the gamer gate era? go back
No.1818386
>>1815639Psychedelic mushrooms weren't introduced to the west until 1955.
>>1815693>So you willing to go vegan too?The solution to the horror of the meat industry is state regulated production, and not just banning meat but starting from the bottom up by investing in education to produce scientists capable of research to replace meat with cost effective mass produced alternatives and by removing the profit motive from work in general. In other words the cows will have to wait for communist revolution because individualist consumer boycotts dont work against billions of dollars of subsidies grants and propaganda advertising. but i guess thats authoritismo or something
>>1815596psych thread without psymposia?
https://www.psymposia.com/magazine/lucy-in-the-sky-with-nazis-psychedelics-and-the-right-wing/https://www.psymposia.com/magazine/compass-pathways-is-trying-to-patent-psilocybin-for-more-mental-health-conditions-than-you-can-name/ No.1818924
>>1818918And people in Europe have used fly agaric forever.
No.1818929
>>1818924which is not psychedelic
No.1818930
>>1817459>white inventions like firearms, toilets, and trains.China invented firearms.
Toilets were invented in ancient mesopotamia during the neolithic, if not earlier.
Wagonways (proto-trains) were invented in Babylon.
No.1818935
>>1818930No airplanes, or ice engines, or electric motors then
No.1818938
>>1818929no but ergot is.
No.1818941
>>1818935good luck making any of those without algebra
No.1818942
>>1818935You gotta give up your guns then whitey
No.1818953
>>1818938a couple individuals getting poisoned on accident isn't the same as having a culture of regular use for centuries. sure people used them in europe thousands of years ago but christianity put a stop to that.
No.1819008
>>1818935brvther im not a history buff and even i know this is a losing battle. europe was a warlike intellectual backwater for most of its existence
No.1819010
>>1815596>>Have absolutely no connection to the culture, probably could not locate the tribes that made ayahuasca on a map, So uhhh, can you locate the tribes who "invented ayahuasca" on a map, OP?
No.1819011
Meth seems to invoke the spirit of the esoteric fascists, nick land, and homosexuals.
No.1819013
>>1819011Meth unlocks the spirit of hyper autism. Methheads like dissasembling appliances just for fun.
No.1819021
>>1819013thats normal, i used to do this as a kid when i was bored sometimes
No.1819032
>>1819021i once did this with a bionicle and couldn't figure out how to put it back together because i didnt have the manual, so i cried for weeks and never took anything apart ever again
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