No.1817645
>>1817635Ah yes because the material conditions famously have not changed since the 1920’s
No.1817647
>>1817610hello dengsister! despite your bad faith argument i will entertain you with a little story from my country
during the 40s, the stalinist-moscow aligned communist party, under kremlins orders, entered an electoral bourgeois coalition to form a "united front against fascism", blind to the interests of the working class and the evident class struggle during those years. 80 years later, the movement they opposed is still ideologically encrusted in the working class' minds
during the 70s, khruschevite moscow ordered them to support a reactionary military dictatorship under the pretext of "peaceful coexistence". outcome? the murder of 30k leftist activists, trade unionists and intellectuals (kremlin sponsored™), which in turn massively receded class consciousness in the country
i know you chauvinist brain cant wrap your head around it, but class struggle is the engine of history. not inter-countries conflict. there is no government in the world better positioned (militarily, intellectually, technologically nor economically) than china to spread the revolution
if they dont do it its because they dont care about it, not because theyre "thinking tactically"
No.1817653
>>1817622>KPRF is a major faction nothing happened during the 90s, every communist party always tries to build socialism and supporting an autocratic bourgeois government is actually revolutionary
>socialist compatible domestic policyagain, the ussr has not dissolved and putins russia is actually the bulwark of the revolution. people dont suffer from high crime rates nor deficient, underfunded public services. cutting budget for welfare while oligarchs make millionaire deals is socialist compatible domestic policy, dont worry about it
No.1817660
>>1817647Khrushchev was a fascist though so this argument doesn’t even make sense. Yes, fascists hate communists, thank you for this stunning revelation! Doesn’t suddenly make Russia evil and deserving of destruction
>class struggle is the engine of historyNo, struggle itself is the “engine of history”. Class struggle stopped being relevant when China proved that patriotic elements of the bourgeoisie not only can be integrated into a proletarian economy but is in fact vital for the nation’s growth and development. The era of class warfare has come and gone, and in the 21st century is simply pointless destructive. Do you desire civilization? Or barbarism?
No.1817662
>>1817635>>falling for the meme flag>Not an anarchist.WHY DO U USE THE MEME FLAG STOPPPPPPPPP PLEASEEEEEEEE
No.1817663
>>1817660-1/10 not even trying anymore
No.1817665
>>1817663I accept your concession of defeat
No.1817677
>>1817674dont waste precious time trying to debate that brute
No.1817694
>>1817674>What the fuck is "struggle" can you show it to me?It’s called “contradiction”, it’s a fundamental force in physics and a fundamental aspect of any materialist analysis of the present state of things. This is a pretty basic Marxist concept, are you sure you’re a communist?
>Was it struggle when the Cultural Revolution's gains were reversed in favor of empowering local bourgeoisie?Ahistorical nonsense. The GPCR hasn’t been “reversed” as it represents the perpetual struggle of the Chinese people against exploitation. That it has abandoned its quasi-anarchist leanings from when Mao went insane (and that western “Maoists” pretend was all of Mao Zedong Thought) doesn’t mean the Revolution itself has been undone or reversed, just that it has sublated into a more refined form, as is the goal of communism and always has been. I know you really want to LARP as some mighty white revolutionary fighting against those evil tankies of duh See See Pee but I’m afraid reality has a thing or two to say about your dreams, none of them kind
No.1817717
>>1817694We are talking tangible changes in the social formation of China that were observable during a set period of time. You speak in vagaries and a quasi-Orientalism of the exceptional nature of the Chinese as if China itself isn't a diverse country with a myriad of competing (struggling perhaps?) class interests.
>’s called “contradiction”, it’s a fundamental force in physics and a fundamental aspect of any materialist analysis of the present state of thingsWhich you have rejected willingly already in favor of the most vulgar economistic view of Chinese history, I've ever fucking seen. Accusing others of being white, while engaging in the most colonized-brain analysis of China is bizarre.
>doesn’t mean the Revolution itself has been undone or reversedRevolution is the abolition of a present state of things. When aspects of that abolition are undone either through force, or legality in this case, then we conclude the revolution has been reversed. Ironically, this in itself is a manifestation of class struggle in a pure form. Which you have rejected.
>just that it has sublated into a more refined form, as is the goal of communism and always has beenHow will this transition be realized? You spoke of physics. Transition is an aspect of motion. Show me said, motion in China in the form of empirical evidence of this direction toward communism. Xi's faction, represents a leftward shift in China, but hardly reflects a fundamental alteration of the social-formation of the country. Unless of course, it survives on after he leaves power.
>are you sure you’re a communist?If you are what constitutes a communist, I'll move to China myself and ask their netizens.
No.1817732
>poor perfipherical country
>muh national liberation
>get embargoed by the capitalist powers
>???
>get crap
No.1818437
>>1816851I’ll be honest anyone who falls for this incredibly obvious manipulation by spooks does it because they WANT to fall for it. Sinophobia is real and it’s real on the left, too.
No.1818515
>>1818437Retards that think that China is behind everything made it impossible to criticize the CPC without getting lumped into either the deranged schizo trotskyist-tier, or the barely concealed twitteroid /pol/tard group, as there wouldn't be a suprising overlap of both their talking points.
No.1818520
>>1817559Don't buy into Erdogan's performance, trade between Turkey and Israel reached its peak after Oct 7 and he only belatedly did this because he was scared shitless about Turkish elections
No.1818522
>>1818520Also his economic policy is beyond retarded and resulted in both hyperinflation AND low agregate supply. But this is for another thread
No.1818527
>>1818522I would be interested tbh. only because I have a friend, his mum is petit bourg and bought a bunch of Turkish lira as an investment
No.1818624
>>1818527'<
and bought a bunch of Turkish lira as an investment'
This punchline is good and funni but I don't understand the setup.
Needs more work.
No.1818627
>>1818620>But remember this, if China had the choice of defending their national interests at the cost of betraying some socialist revolution somewhere else, they would do itWhy do you act like those are mutually exclusive? Why does socialism for you demand the dismantling of the Chinese state and an end to the sovereignty of the Chinese people?
No.1818628
The problem with Maoists is that they're Maoists. They are guys larping 1960s China. That's their whole ideology in a nutshell. Also Charu Majumdar was from a landlord family and he saint his daughters to an expensive private school while at the same time encouraging poor peasants not to send their children to schools at all. You look at a lot of Indian commies and you realize many of them were upper caste, middle class at the very least, and had insane crazed ideas. Maoists today are just as intellectually bankrupt as they were in the 70s. That's the biggest problem with Maoism.
No.1818640
>>1818627>Why do you act like those are mutually exclusiveThey're not. But they're not the same either. Conflict of interest between socialist nations is very common.
>Why does socialism for you demand the dismantling of the Chinese state and an end to the sovereignty of the Chinese people?Being a meanie to China is literally calling for counter-revolution now, apparently.
No.1818641
>>1818628I asked for criticism not idpol ridden slander.
No.1818646
>>1818640Yes, calling for the destruction of a communist state for not meeting some westerner’s arbitrary idea of perfection does in fact make you a counterrevolutionary, thank you for admitting it
No.1818657
>>1818646>Yes, calling for the destruction of a communist stateLiterally where did he say this?
No.1818663
>>1818620capitalism is a transnational phenomenon, segmenting the struggle into nation states and falling into geopolitical opportunism is detrimental to socialism
china is not socialist and it doesnt care about socialism, but supposing that it is socialist and does cares about socialism, its materially the one in the best position to foster revolution abroad, peaceful or violent, via technological, economical, intellectual or military assistance
>>1818646>t. cant define "state" even if his life depended on itthe chinese bureaucracy and bourgeois are counterrevolutionary
No.1818683
>>1818641how is it idpol to point out that the guy who came up with the principal of annihilation of the landlords was also a landlord? and he told the lower classes to do one thing and did the opposite himself. Indian leftists are almost always upper class or middle class brahmins. why the fuck would they embrace a class eliminationist politics? its because they are hypocrites. they are communists who want to preserve the social order not change it. the fact they reduce caste distinctions to idpol when they are real class distinctions based on profession proves they are a bunch of psuedo-commies who dont actually give a fuck. its just one big adventure larp. "kill all landlords" said charu majumdar when he was himself a landlord. its exactly the same as the guardian and NYT readers cheering on "black radical tradition" and talking like they are a black panther. Its a pathetic masochistic larp where leftism has become a cool subcultural aesthetic. thats what maoists are. they are peasant fetishizing larpers who couldn't water a rice field.
No.1818695
They have been fighting for too long without any major victory.
No.1818835
>>1818657Half of this thread is full of ultras screaming that China’s government needs to be “more communist” and maybe I’m reading too much into it but I don’t think they want to do so in good faith using the democratic systems in place. Almost like they want to force a different government entirely on the Chinese people without their consent or something
No.1818859
While the West is set to destroy the largest threat it has ever had in the history of capitalism to its hegemony, what are the socialists doing in the imperial core? Denouncing China, calling it bourgeois, calling it counter revolutionary, dismissing its enormous contributions to national liberation around the world.
When Marx argued that your context determines a large part of how you think, I bet he didn't image colonial apologists calling themselves socialists.
No.1818872
>>1818835china needs to be communist, period. its not communist now
"the support of the people" is a meaningless abstraction, people can vote liberals and fascists into power
No.1818881
>>1818859>muh West>cant even dare to talk about international capitalalso
<criticizing china means u glowiehave dengatards ever heard of class struggle?
>contributions to national liberation around the world. HAHAHAHAHAHA
No.1818909
>>1818881>denying reality ngmi
No.1818951
>>1818909NTA but what contribution did China bring to national liberation exactly ?
With Russia you could point to military support to Burkina Faso or Niger but China?
No.1819151
>>1818859Im sick of burgers excusing their racist hostility and civilizational race war by dressing it up as anti-capitalism. This rhetoric would all be fine if your polity wasn’t carrying out a global, “all of society” jihad against China and seeking to impoverish and repress it along every domain and produce anti-sintic racism and violence worldwide.They could at least address their criticism in the context of this all encompassing war of the holy West against the perilous Chinese, but they don’t even acknowledge it. Craven, stupid behavior.
No.1819153
>>1819127<u mad bro?>>1819151<please PLEASE do not bully poor china! ITS RAYCISdengsisters on their last legs
No.1819163
>>1818620The Chinese literally met with Allende and told him to not overreach or he'd get killed by the Americans. They also told him to secure the military. It's not their fault Allende was retardedly incompetent. When you have Zhou Enlai in a private meeting telling you to get your shit together you know you're a fucking idiot.
No.1819308
>>1819153Schizophrenia too now, terrible conditions you have.
No.1819483
>>1818847I'm not a Maoist. I don't agree with most of what they say, but I do critically support them.
No.1819485
>>1819163How does this excuse supporting Pigochet?
No.1831116
>>1815784>China takes practical steps to make sure it can stay the headquarters of the revolutionBrother what alternate timeline are you transmitting from?
No.1831127
>>1815773>They're hostile to ChinaDo you have anything to say about their stated reasons WHY they've taken this position on modern China or do you just sperg out the moment you hear China not being worshipped?
>take their ideology from Abimael GuzmanWhile they do view the Peruvian Revolution as important to the historical formation of Maoism, the CPI(Maoist) is not part of the modern Gonzaloist trend within Maoism (expressed mainly in the ICL). You saying this indicates you've never actually read anything from the Maoists in India, as they have a long history of criticizing key parts of Gonzalo thought (Jefatura, concentric construction of the party, etc.)
Unique IPs: 25