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TSSI Comrade 11/22/2020 (Sun) 04:17:31 No. 5995 [Reply]
Any enthusiasts of it on the board? I have read a good chunk of Andrew Kliman's Reclaiming Marx's Capital, but I admit that it mostly clears the deck of red herrings rather than makes an argument for a rigorous mathematical formulation of marxist economics. In particular it does explicitly formulate how the tprf leads to recurring recessions (directly or indirectly). I have an electronic copy of the pic book but haven't read it yet.
*it does NOT explicitly formulate

Is "The Poverty of Philosophy" full of slander ahd lies? Comrade 10/05/2020 (Mon) 22:18:04 No. 4896 [Reply]
https://anarchism.pageabode.com/anarcho/review-poverty-philosophy-karl-marx This article claims that Marx's "Poverty of Philosophy" is just a slanderous book that has nothing to do with Proudhon's real theories. Marx doesn't properly quote Proudhon or openly strawmans him. His claims about Proudhon being bad economist in the begining of the book sound laughable since Proudhon was respected economist in his time. >Comparing Marx’s “reply” to what Proudhon actually wrote, it is hard to take the former seriously. Once the various distortions and inventions are corrected, little remains. Proudhon was right to suggest Marx’s work was “a tissue of crudities, slanders, falsifications, and plagiarism.” (Correspondance [Paris: Lacroix, 1875] II: 267-8) Worse, Marx himself twenty years later embraces in Capital most of the positions he attacks Proudhon for holding in 1847. >The dishonesty of The Poverty of Philosophy has distorted our view of Proudhon’s ideas and the time is long overdue for a revaluation of Proudhon and his contributions to anarchism and the wider socialist movement. This does not mean that Marx does not, occasionally, presents a valid point – most obviously, Proudhon’s opposition to strikes was wrong as subsequent anarchists recognised – it is just that these are frustratingly few in the midst of so much distortion. So, yes, Proudhon’s mutualism – a form of market socialism based on worker-run co-operatives – does need to be critiqued but Marx’s book is simply not that work. are there any counter arguments to this?
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>>4910 C4SS's reply basically just repeats what was already attacked in the original article by Mueller (which is a good read btw). All this makes me even more sure that The Poverty of Philosophy is not slander.
There is a lot of value in the book. It features: A clear explanation of the hegelian system The failures of the hegelian system Incredibly entertaining polemic (Marx will literally work a joke into the structure of his argument and hit you with it 2 pages later) Creates a clear refutation of market socialism. It does contain some straw men of M. Proudhon but it's worth the read regardless.
>>4901 First thing he does in the video is talking about "muh dictatorship of proletariat is bad because it is dictatorship and not democracy". It is a retarded lib video, not worth wasting your time even watching.
>>5006 no, he doesn't he says that MLs are communists and as communists they should support direct democracy (at least somewhere in the future) and not to openly support dictatorship which is what Politsturm did in their article. also, he isn't a lib but an anarchist
btw, is "The philosophy of Misery" by Proudhon worth of reading?

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Comrade 11/20/2020 (Fri) 16:33:43 No. 5976 [Reply]
Is it fine to read translations of Adorno? What are the best ones? I've heard his works are difficult to translate correctly.

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Libertarian marxist? Comrade 04/06/2020 (Mon) 13:08:36 No. 433 [Reply] [Last]
I'm not sure sure where I sit on the left exactly because i am very sympathetic to alot of ansyn and mutualist anarchist models and also strongly center my belifes around the labor theory of value but I don't belive in the dissolution of the state but instead the state only existing as a democratic and transparent beuracratic entity that can mediate between potential disputes between communes and plan for projects that would involve multiple communes coperation Would it be apt to refer to this as libertarian Marxism?
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>>2257 I don’t think it’s /a/ and /v/ as much as it is stupidpolyps and chapoids.
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Lib-Marx is pretty viable since I believe the state should be restructured to be horizontal rather than hierarchical as it would reflect the socialist mode of production. Take the Zapatista municipalities for instance, since there style of governing is summed up in their motto: "Here the people give the orders and the government obeys". Luxemburg's stressing of socialist democracy also is an idea I resonate with when reading her work, and Marx himself saw the Paris Commune as a DotP. I think it makes sense for a state to be reduced in power, operate on radical, direct democracy, and be ran by the people themselves as an entire class, without individual leaders dominating all.
Situ, Post-situ and autonomism is severely underrated and highly relevant to our current problems; both in terms of analysis of capital that has become increasingly dependent on data mining and controlling vectors of information, but also in terms of how we organize better, with a baseline understanding of contemporary cybernetic skills competent international reach and needed organizational complexity.
>>5606 They are not underrated, you are just hanging out with imbeciles.

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Pedagogy and /leftypol/ Comrade 04/17/2020 (Fri) 17:25:33 No. 1136 [Reply] [Last]
Are there any teachers here? If so, how do you work with your curricula to insert your chosen beliefs? And what is the most based methodology and pedagogy? >t. Primary School, Y 4-5, we play "Red Leader" which is basically capture the flag but with special rules, and I put up lots of posters about "working together" and "team work".
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>>5907 >everyone is influenced by others >so you should shower kids with propaganda Right.
>>5909 Yes? Isnt that the whole point of political activism?
>>5921 Maybe if you're a sociopath with zero morals.
>>5932 What? Do you think the bullshit they get taught in school now isnt propaganda? Have you ever taken a highschool economics or history class?
>>5933 I don't believe that anybody here would contest that those are propaganda. The question isn't what the ruling class does, it's what we should do. Now it's possible that there's some talking past each other and that people are using words (like "propaganda" or "influence") differently. But I would say that (1) teachers can never be truly neutral even if they try (for instance they must select what materials students are presented with, and so on), but also that (2) there's a difference between teaching students to think particular conclusions and to think critically and , and that there's a danger in pursuing the former to the degree that it harms the latter. The goal of critical thinking isn't to produce a truly "independent" thinker. A smart, reflective, curious, critical person who happens to be gentry in Song dynasty China is going to think a lot differently than a smart, reflective, curious, critical person who works in a meatpacking plant in nineteenth-century Argentina - or whatever. But their common qualities also mean that they're not just going to blindly and automatically produce what's given to them, either. They're going to, ideally, look at a wide array of what's in front of them and produce something new out of it. And we need this as a species a lot more than we need people who can repeat a slogan - even a *correct* slogan - for a teacher before going on to repeat another slogan for another teacher.

will translate any russian text under 20k words Comrade 05/18/2020 (Mon) 22:38:49 No. 1688 [Reply]
it should take me a couple of days max to do so. drop links, pdfs, images if it's larger than 20k lmk and i'll think about it i'll also do belarusian if needed
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>>2719 This one seems to be good. "Main features of cybernetics"
http://lenincrew.com Could you translate anything by the Lenin Crew? Maybe something that stands out to you? I'm not sure if the Google translation is good enough, but I would like a confirmation if it is accurate. If you could, I would like your thoughts and opinions on the website. Or, if you are busy and cannot do any of my requests, I would at least ask you to translate this: http://lenincrew.com/imperialism-and-the-transformation-of-values-into-prices/ Although I am welcome to a translation of a work that you deem to be much more important.
Requesting translations of these images posted in their respective comment sections: https://lefty.booru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=translation_request+russian_text
>>1688 hey op, could you contact me via [email protected] about some translation work. you can do it anonymously if you wish.

Did Marx support a strongly centralized state or no? Comrade 06/29/2020 (Mon) 18:13:17 No. 2117 [Reply]
I am open to non-marxist points of view. Evidence for: >Whilst it forces on more and more of the transformation of the vast means of production, already socialized, into State property, it shows itself the way to accomplishing this revolution. The proletariat seizes political power and turns the means of production into State property. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/04/nationalisation-land.htm >The nationalisation of land will work a complete change in the relations between labour and capital, and finally, do away with the capitalist form of production, whether industrial or rural. Then class distinctions and privileges will disappear together with the economical basis upon which they rest. To live on other people's labour will become a thing of the past. There will be no longer any government or state power, distinct from society itself! Agriculture, mining, manufacture, in one word, all branches of production, will gradually be organised in the most adequate manner. National centralisation of the means of production will become the national basis of a society composed of associations of free and equal producers, carrying on the social business on a common and rational plan. Such is the humanitarian goal to which the great economic movement of the 19th century is tending. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm >If man, by dint of his knowledge and inventive genius, has subdued the forces of nature, the latter avenge themselves upon him by subjecting him, in so far as he employs them, to a veritable despotism independent of all social organisation. Wanting to abolish authority in large-scale industry is tantamount to wanting to abolish industry itself, to destroy the power loom in order to return to the spinning wheel. Let us take another example — the railway. Here too the co-operation of an infinite number of individuals is absolutely necessary, and this co-operation must be practised during precisely fixed hours so that no accidents may happen. Here, too, the first condition of the job is a dominant will that settles all subordinate questions, whether this will is represented by a single delegate or a committee charged with the execution of the resolutions of the majority of persona interested. In either case there is a very pronounced authority. Moreover, what would happen to the first train dispatched if the authority of the railway employees over the Hon. passengers were abolished? But the necessity of authority, and of imperious authority at that, will nowhere be found more evident than on board a ship on the high seas. There, in time of danger, the lives of all depend on the instantaneous and absolute obedience of all to the will of one. When I submitted arguments like these to the most rabid anti-authoritarians, the only answer they were able to give me was the following: Yes, that's true, but there it is not the case of authority which we confer on our delegates, but of a commission entrusted! These gentlemen think that when they have changed the names of things they have changed the things themselves. This is how these profound thinkers mock at the whole world. We have thus seen that, on the one hand, a certain authority, no matter how delegated, and, on the other hand, a certain subordination, are things which, independently of all social organisation, are imposed upon us together with the material conditions under which we produce and make products circulate. https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1850-ad1.htm >But no more than local and provincial self-government is in contradiction to political, national centralisation, is it necessarily bound up with that narrow-minded cantonal or communal self-seeking which strikes us as so repulsive in Switzerland, and which all the South German federal republicans wanted to make the rule in Germany in 1849. – Note by Engels to the 1885 edition.] Evidence against: >With all the great towns organized into Communes after the model of Paris, no government could repress the movement by the surprise of sudden reaction. Even by this preparatory step the time of incubation, the guarantee of the movement, came. All France [would be] organized into self-working and self-governing Communes, the standing army replaced by the popular militias, the army of State parasites removed, the clerical hierarchy displaced by the schoolmaster, the State judge transformed into Communal organs, the suffrage for the national representation not a matter of sleight of hand for an all-powerful government but the deliberate expression of organized Communes, the State functions reduced to a few functions for general national purposes. Such is the Commune – the political form of the social emancipation, of the liberation of labour from the usurpations (slaveholding) of the monopolists of the means of labour, created by the labourers themselves or forming the gift of nature. As the State machinery and parliamentarism are not the real life of the ruling classes, but only the organized general organs of their dominion, the political guarantees and forms and expressions of the old order of things, so the Commune is not the social movement of the working class and therefore of a general regeneration of mankind, but the organized means of action. The Commune does not [do] away with the class struggles, through which the working classes strive to [read for] the abolition of all classes and, therefore, of all classes [class rule] (because it does not represent a peculiar interest, it represents the liberation of “labour,” that is the fundamental and natural condition of individual and social life which only by usurpation, fraud, and artificial contrivances can be shifted from the few upon the many), but it affords the rational medium in which that class struggle can run through its different phases in the most rational and humane way. It could start violent reactions and as violent revolutions. It begins the emancipation of labour – its great goal – by doing away with the unproductive and mischievous work of the State parasites, by cutting away the springs which sacrifice an immense portion of the national produce to the feeding of the State monster on the one side, by doing, on the other, the real work of administration, local and national, for working men’s wages. It begins therefore with an immense saving, with economical reform as well as political transformation. The Communal organization once firmly established on a national scale, the catastrophes it might still have to undergo, would be sporadic slaveholders’ insurrections, which, while for a moment interrupting the work of peaceful progress, would only accelerate the movement, by putting the sword into the hands of the Social Revolution.

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>>5903 >I would say no. He supported the idea of a state ran by the entire working class themselves, but not an all powerful hierarchical one (see: Paris Commune). Saying that Marx thought the paris commune was the blueprint for communism/socialism is the hot take of the century. His entire writing denouncing idealism and outlining his vision is based on the shortcommings of the paris commune and its orginisation.
Why does it matter? Marx wasn't some prophet. Think for yourself.
>>5910 Why does anything matter...........>?
>>2117 We'll never really know because he died before he had the chance to touch in this topic in Capital.
>>5908 He and Engels saw it as an example of the DotP. I get they critiqued it too and they never wanted to act like they knew the future though.

Organising Resources Comrade 11/14/2020 (Sat) 14:42:20 No. 5922 [Reply]
/edu/ what are some resources that you've used or know of to help newbies learn to organise? Obviously "Just join local X to get experience", but just doing prior reading. MLs, Anarkiddies, Syndies, etc. All sources and styles welcome. Just trying to build a little portfolio to read and share.
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Books/Sources on America's Coal Wars? Comrade 11/04/2020 (Wed) 18:22:02 No. 5576 [Reply]
I'm a history major in Burgerstan, I'm hoping to really focus in on labor history and eventually get some kind of law degree so I can help Unions or work for OSHA or some shit. I thought it might be a good idea to start reading up on one of the more violent episodes of American Capitalism. Can anybody recommend some good accounts or Historians that cover the Coalfield Wars?
I know a few books but I gotta wait until I can go back to the library to find the titles.
Robert Ovetz's When Workers Shot Back: Class Conflict from 1877 to 1921 would probably be a good starting point. 606 pages; it has a section on the West Virginia coal wars.
Nigga if you are a history major you should be recommending books to us

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Why is the Proletariat the revolutionary class? Comrade 11/09/2020 (Mon) 20:39:09 No. 5634 [Reply]
I haven't read much but I'm confused as to why Marx and others conceived of the proletariat as the class that would overthrow capitalism. If we look at history through a materialist lense it seems to me that it's only been a third propertied class overthrows the current system of production, not the people without property. For example, it wasn't slaves that overthrew slavery, it was landlords. It wasn't serfs that overthrew feudalism, it was the bourgeoisie. Every revolution calling itself socialist that actually took state power was led by petit-bourgeois intellectuals like Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Mao, and Fidel Castro and manned mostly not by workers, but by peasants in a semi-colonial semi-feudal relationship to the means of production. Most proletarian movements in advanced capitalist societies have been reformist and class collaborationist. How, after all of this evidence, can we say that the proletariat is the revolutionary class? How can you say the workers have nothing to lose but their chains when they need capitalism to keep going so they can have running water, electricity, and the spectacle to keep them comfortable?
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in both examples provided, classes were sediment and predetermined. this allows for middle classes that can flourish and help the workers because they had a common enemy. In capitalism, however, the middle classes are dissolving into either the proletarian or the bourgeoisie. This class organization means that the proletarian will become the ONLY class with revolutionary potential because, eventually, they will be the only non possessing class. for now though, there is some weak solidarity with some petit bourgeoisie so we should take advantage of that as much as we can at least. hope this helped comrade ! :)
>>5656 >they will be the only non possessing class a non possessing class has never been able to overthrow a class system. Again, who overthrew slavery? It wasn't the slaves. Assuming a non possessing class will overthrow our current class system is a break from all historical trends.
well i am not sure how things will play out, but my point was that the proletarian may have to break that cycle out of necessity. however i dont think we should ignore our petite comrades that, with out the influence of the proletariat, would surley not revolt
>>5658 >but my point was that the proletarian may have to break that cycle out of necessity just because something is necessary doesn't meant it will happen, remember Marx is not a determinist, he noted that not just proletarian revolution is possible, but that the "common ruin of the contending classes" is just as much a possibility, and if the climate alarmists are correct, this is the where we already are and basically the course change would come too late to matter.
>>5634 The capitalist mode of production is increasingly powerless. In the pursuit of profit, it is stuck in maintaining the infrastructure of society. Infrastructure maintenance is an unprofitable or low-profitable business. But without infrastructure, society cannot function. Only the proletariat, who do not work for profit, can lead the whole society from the inevitable collapse caused by capitalism.

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