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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1699772639314.jpg (87.43 KB, 640x540, two birds.jpg)

 No.1675962[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

183 posts and 70 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1834356

File: 1713953388961.png (56.63 KB, 797x462, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1834355
That's not the point.

Also, don't be a cunt:

 No.1834393

>>1834352
nah I'm fucking dumb actually. they picked it up but only after it went on social media. the fucking j-town mob came back for the burgertory guy's family.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/firebomb-attack-at-the-home-of-hash-tayeh-20240422-p5flqf.html

 No.1834951

>>1830666
>a few socialist groups, trade unions and mediocre Muslim orgs have done infinitely more to hurt da joo in a few months than neo-Nazis have in the same time plus seven decades

Because the far right was under extremely close scrutiny after da joo won WW2.
But watch what will happen now.

 No.1835032

>>1834393
>the fucking j-town mob came back for the burgertory guy's family.
Jeez, literal textbook terrorism. I've been out of the media for a couple of weeks but this is just fucked.
Zionists really out here losing all support among moderate liberals.

also did they just throw fire bombs at concrete and metal? Idiots
>“The police have failed to protect this community. There have been so many attacks, not just against me, but against so many of us and now this has hit home and bombs were thrown at my house.”

 No.1835039

>>1834951
And, by scrutiny, I guess you mean 'being funded by the CIA'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

White Nationalists work hand-in-hand with other racial separatists like Black Nationalists and Zionists. Zionists want Jews to feel unsafe in the US, Europe and Australia, so that they will go to Israel and fight. They love what neo-Nazis are doing. Socialists, on the other hand, actually threaten their wallet by enacting workers rights and community building. The far-right are too strategically bankrupt to endorse anything smarter than Siegefaggotry, which just kills a few people and changes nothing. The result of a fundamentally broken analysis of society.

A far-right kiddo would do more to achieve their goals by just pretending to be a leftist. Hell, it's what the NSDAP and ᴉuᴉlossnW did.



 No.1833653[Reply]

people who accept and/or desire to submit to an authority do so because the state and authority in general is derived from paternalism. If a family/parents violate a child of the love, trust, safety, acceptance, and protection whether by heavy corporal punishment or even sexual assault, they might seek it elsewhere which is why so many right winged american boomers have their views due to widespread corporal punishment of children, especially before the 80s/90s.

In Alice Miller's book For Your Own Good, which provides a historical perspective on this. She proposes that the abusive childrearing practices rife in Germany during the early and mid-20th century were major factors in why so many Germans supported Hitler and were willing to take him seriously.

>Do you believe the concentration camps of the Nazi period would have been possible had not the use of physical terrorization in the form of beatings with canes, rug beaters, switches, and cat- o'-nine-tails been the rule in raising German children?
40 posts and 13 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1834852

>>1834714
I mean in terms of infantilisation.
Like how the starting age for adulthood is often five to ten years higher than natural in Germanic nations.

 No.1834855

>>1834666
sounds hebephobic considering most of tht kind of violenece is often adults.

 No.1834967

File: 1714006348676-0.png (68.2 KB, 703x534, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1714006348676-1.png (67.73 KB, 728x528, ClipboardImage.png)

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>>1834671
>Well they do kind of have a point about this form of abuse being way more common than most people realize,
Yes and I don't dispute that, I just dispute the researcher's implication that it's the main reason we're seeing so many Nazis with child porn, that it's a selection bias and not something to read deeper into. That would imply some equivalent trend among socialist activists being arrested and discovered with CSAM, which afaik just isn't the case.
Here is the article I'm talking about: https://www.vice.com/en/article/3akvbw/why-do-neo-nazis-keep-getting-arrested-for-child-porn
Quotes in pics1-2.

It's hard to say that when openly pro-abuse groups like O9A have clear influence in neo-Nazism (the Atomwaffen sucessor group directly complains about them in the opening lines of their founding statement: https://americanfuturist.net/the-founding-of-the-nsrf/ ) and have former members saying things like pic3 (from that same article, immediately before). It just comes off as ignorant to chalk it down to a selection bias.

 No.1835020

>>1834967
>le extremism meme
Oh I thought this person just said more of them were found with CSAM because more get arrested, this is actual brainworms.

 No.1835025

>>1835020
Yep. Again, they have a point with that 'double jeopardy', e.g. the German police Nazi chats were found because one of the members was being searched for having CSAM, and many cases of CSAM discovery are when searching the phones of arrested Nazis. They're not wrong that it's a factor. But that doesn't explain the rest of the picture, and the rest of the picture is very important and apparent.



File: 1713173048695.png (722.59 KB, 975x758, IMG_9631.png)

 No.1825107[Reply][Last 50 Posts]

He has been missing for several days now. They say he went to go help some Russian troops but got kidnapped. I think he is dead. So sad. I wanted to meet him someday he is my hero.
331 posts and 56 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1834249

>>1834157
He was married retard.

 No.1834521

>>1834212
Sounds like bullshit. Why would you go to a war zone for pussy? Most western perverts just go to Philippines or Thailand. Also I’ve watched probably 80% of all videos Russell has put out. I homes can’t remember a single time he made a reference to anything sexual at all. Like he literally never talked about sex or picking up women at all. Also he married an older woman. If he was a pervert he would have married a much younger woman like they usually do.

 No.1834866

>>1834140
>>1834139
For real I think this is the most uninformed statement I've seen about the Ukraine war relative to how much someone discusses the subject. This is critical to propping up the bullshit about how multipolarity (literally meaning not unipolarity) = world fascism guise!! like WWI!!!
Russia just is imperialist, it is okay! Their invasion is just like US invading Iraq, and just like the bombing of civilians in Gaza. Nevermind that the US overthrew their government to have Nazis fight a holy war on Russia and conscript everyone who couldn't get out of the country 10 years ago, and has been cluster-bombing civilians. If a country doesn't immediately respond to provocations by the US with full-scale nuclear salvos, it means they're just opportunistic rats. Seeing the comments about how China and Russia should be launching WWIII interspersed with the arguments that multipolarity risks world war is really a phenomenal display of how thoughtless or malicious this manchild really is.
>>protecting the Donbass from ukro-nazis
>This is like saying the "war on terror." It's a kind of multi-purpose yap-weapon. Or using the Voice to destroy your enemies. These are nuke-words or cluster-phrases to incinerate everything in their vicinity. I don't think it has much to do with a factual assertion. Putin calls Zelensky a Nazi, but if he hadn't, he'd be calling him a terrorist. Either way, Kharkiv would still be getting shelled.

 No.1834884

>>1834521
>Also he married an older woman
My man. 👍

 No.1834896

File: 1714001650426.png (1.86 MB, 1008x1176, reddit general.png)




File: 1712518200590.jpg (9.81 KB, 225x225, images.jpg)

 No.1815878[Reply]

I am trying to understand more about the current Russian National Bolshevism, if there is a real ideology there or is it pure joke…

Does anyone know if there is an ideologist or any real theory that can be read about them? lol
17 posts and 8 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1834344

>>1815878
>if there is a real ideology there or is it pure joke…
No ideology it is just a joke.
>Does anyone know if there is an ideologist or any real theory that can be read about them?
Not worth it but you should check out Yegor Letov he was an amazing poet, helped found the party, then distanced himself from it out of pure shame.

 No.1834729

>>1815946
Dugin is not a nazbol, but most self proclaimed nazbols are just conservative communists (by 50s standards, they are still feminist but oppose immigration and lgbt). They feel the need to add "national" to it because they watch too much western media and think every normal communist is socially liberal which is not always true.

 No.1834731

>>1815985
>Dugin tried to latch onto any movement that he perceived as "third-positionist"
*fourth-positionist (his own words)

 No.1834863

>>1815964
SO MUCH TOTALITARIANISM

 No.1834872

>>1815946
You're basically describing Fascism.



File: 1713957109380.jpg (5.92 MB, 5976x6368, botswana-geology-mines.jpg)

 No.1834368[Reply]

It's often seen as a success story of a nation that built itself from scratch post-colonialism and as an example of IMF loaning "working" and of "moderate pragmatism" beating "ideological purity" (of e.g. Burkina Faso). At least that's the mainstream narrative.
But why did it not get the usual foreign-business/political-meddling/coups/destabilization cocktail its neighboring African nations had to deal with? What's the secret?
7 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1834434

>>1834397
>90.2 wealth Gini

That's brutal. Is it accounting for tax havens or not, because if it is the latter we are closing to total wealth inequality for the Netherlands.
How can it be this fucked up?

 No.1834445

>>1834433
You're still in the top 3, shart
>>1834434
Gini can be calculated more reliably if a government or some sort of financial institution routinely and truthfully provides the statistics required for it. This means you do indeed have some leeway in assuming most periphery countries with low state capacity actually have it worse, especially for the ones that are already red with their sub-par info (so for example, Botswana).
Regardless, a Gini of 90 or more is still very shit in an absolute sense.

 No.1834493

>>1834445
We all know burgerville is the heart of darkness and only exists to spread misery and hopelessness around the world, however Europe especially places that are considered "civilized" and "progressive" deserve blame and not just Anglos.

 No.1834517

>>1834434
I think it's because home ownership rates are so low in Germany, I'm assuming Netherlands has a similar issue.

 No.1834573

>>1834403
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debswana
50/50 partnership between De Beers and the Botswanan state since the 70s, they're doing just fine.



File: 1713976918163.jpg (484.11 KB, 1600x1272, ChildLabour.jpg)

 No.1834523[Reply]

[okay so faggots I got a hot take that youŕe not ready for]

CHILD LABOR IN MODERATION CAN LEAD TO US SUCCESS

So for many years there has been them implementation of child labor laws, if you know the history of it then good if not look that shit up. BUT! Here I come. I offer you a solution to the problem that is plaguing the nation *Labor shortages*! There has been a push for college and less for people entering the workforce immediately after high school also there is a astigmatism that applies to both that and trade skills. Now that we got that out of the way, my proposal. I know that depending on your state (US specific) that 14 year olds and more-so 15 year olds are entering the workforce at the unskilled jobs. This would be things like housekeeping or like fast food. I know that my mother when she was a child that she was working in blueberry patches in the 1970ś as a white woman but now in 2024 there would be all hell raised if I suggested to my mother that I wanted to do the same thing she did for the summer instead of an intership/college class/ or a job relating to my future intended career. I am 21f for context. But I have been brainwashed as has everyone with the idea of college for all and this leads to the inflation of qualifications for jobs for now jobs that didn´t require a degree to now havi ng one compared to our parents who applied and are still employeed in the same sector. If we lower to the working age then we have more people that are getting money, you may suggest that people are only working at 14-16 if they need the money, but we are considering that the population of the working age in the united states is not increasing to support the large number of adults living past the working age (ss benefits/programs). So if we get a bunch of 12 year olds , even just lowering it by 2 years you start to get people that are working the jobs that no one wants, they get time management skills, and money which stimulates the economy. This is more kids buying like clothes or makeup or games and then in turn then parents can stop with this whole allowance gargin. WHICH I HATE. I HATE HATE HATE seeing bitches my age get an allowance like as soon as I got a job in high school part time any financial help from my parents seized, I know that this is just parents wanting to give their kids, but this is harmful both ways with an expectation of assistance and then the draining of parentś savings. We can see with millennials that therPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
8 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1834577

>>1834534
school and chores arent really good forms of labor. Especially post-primary schooling.

 No.1834732

File: 1713989909702.jpg (55.91 KB, 902x717, happiness by age.jpg)

>>1834523
There is no "labor shortage" "plaguing" the nation. There's low unemployment, which is good for workers and bad for capitalists. If the media has been catastrophizing to you about how nobody wants to work anymore, that's just bourgeois pear-clutching about having to pay higher wages because the surplus army of labor is smaller and the labor market is tighter. Children wouldn't get to freely choose whether to work because their parents ultimately control their lives, and would be the arbiters of whether their children got jobs or not. And that's not the only reason child labor would be bad for children. It would also give them less time to dedicate to leisure and to school. Children need childhoods, not to be turned into wageslaves the moment they're old enough to stand up. Do you want to extend the dip in this chart further left?

>draining of parents' savings

>financial security
The solution to this is the welfare state.
>expectation of assistance
conservative propaganda with no foundation in reality
>the population of the working age in the united states is not increasing to support the large number of adults living past the working age (ss benefits/programs)
First of all, this is the same argument that Ben Shapiro uses to defend raising the retirement age. Secondly, if you're worried about the median age growing, the solution to that is immigration. Lots of young workers want to come into the country and work and pay taxes. If you want more workers and more taxes, just let them in.

This post is reactionary. And it's terribly formatted.

 No.1834781

There is nothing inherently wrong with a little bit of work. The problem is in a capitalist society this little bit of work will quickly turn into a full day work day with barely any wage.

 No.1834960

>>1834732
hey so the idea of a general labor shortage isn´t as deep as you say bro. I am saying that the jobs that people are not fulfilling or don´t want to full since there has been a push for college for all are best for the younger generation. When I get my degree in a year I don´t want to be a cashier, but a 12 year old would be like ¨fuck yeah money¨. A lot of people are being discouraged to apply for these jobs since there is a stigmatization that if you have a degree you should use it and nobody really wants to be underemployed. Parents if they are fucking smart would encourage independence and growing up. You want your TEEN to live a better life than you have and you also want them to be successful and therefore the obvious intersection occurs when we lower the working age. There is 24hrs in a day and a teen is at the mercy (with exceptions due to family finances) to choose to pick up a job if they want. I am not forcing your tween-argue-on-the-internet ass to work. I am just saying that within the US that there would be a benefit and a stimulation of the economy if teens were given access to responsibilities younger. For school, this also would have to be a responsibility of the teen and what they can handle. If I was 12 I would totally work 10 or so hours a week so I can get coffee and save up for the newest Iphone. It also is helpful when it comes to school trips so it passes unnecessary costs to the child and makes them utilize decision-making skills.That chart you provided is bias seeking and therefore emotionally irrational and not applicable to this conversation.

 No.1835903

* I HAVE A NEW ADDITIONAL COMMENT*

After an insightful conversation between a classmate and the current state of exploited labor there is also the child federal labor wage. "youth minimum wage of not less than $4.25 an hour" (dol.org). With this said and the current 7.25 usd minimum wage there needs to be amendments. Under 18 cannot vote and can do more jobs than compared to the people at or above 65 years of old in the aspect of typically labor requiring lifting. A 12 year old would be more likely to carry a heavy 40 pound box than a 65 year old who has had a bad knee for a number of years. I know this isn't the instance 100% of the time but regardless, I think that the minimum wage needs to be raised if we allow the entry of 12 year olds into the labor market. And the same goes for without a lowering. It is unjust to say that someone is worth less in the area of just their age because the same wouldn't be said towards a 70 year old and they get the right to vote.



 No.1834127[Reply]

Some of the nations that are most likely to be reestablished as de facto a second Israel because:
A. The og Israel (thankfully) cannot survive without genociding millions of people and potentially starting WW3 and as leftists we should ponder realistic solutions instead of just posting Billions Must Die;
B. There is no way Israelis and Palestinians can live peacefully in the same country. This isn't just idealistic demands about the Right to Return; the harsh facts is if the Zionists do not move to another country there would be endless civil wars in the Levant
Some of the top candidate nations
1. Austria
Tbh giving citizenship to some 6 million Israelis is probably the least they can do considering they started this whole mess in the first place.
2. Rwanda
They're already establishing themselves as the go-to destination for immigrants anyway, and with all these militant settlers Kagame can conquer all of Congo in just two weeks
3. Japan
Japan lost like half a million people every year so having all these people would revitalize their economy. Besides lots of Japanese esoteric nationalists love Judaism
4. America
There are so, so many empty arable lands in the US that are hoarded for the sole purpose of property speculation. The US can relocate the entirety of Israel AND Palestine to these lands and literally nobidy would fucking notice. Also the least they can do for making this conflict 100x more brutal than it should've been
5. That one Jewish oblast in Russia.
Self evident
Feel free to contribute if you have a better candidate in mind
6 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1834294

>>1834290
>A second Israel won't exist

Rojava already exists.

 No.1834298


 No.1834301

Hiw about we give them New Zealand. Why do the anglos need two australias for anyways. It's like they are not even pretending. 🇦🇺🇳🇿

 No.1834325

>>1834127
We already have a thead for this.

 No.1834331

To eliminate the legitimacy of nation-states and ethnic regimes and send them to museums. Just like eradicating kings and monarchies, there's no longer any foolish talk about giving a certain king a piece of territory.
This is the real solution.
灭亡国家与民族政权的合法性,把他们送进博物馆。就像根除国王与君主制一样,现在可没有什么愚蠢的给某某国王一块领土一说。
这才是真正的解决之道。



 No.1832651[Reply]

At what point do monopoly super-profits paid to a substratum of workers switch to being something worthy of celebration to something of genuine concern. Should this be something that Marxists even care about?

Construction workers in one of Australia's largest states have reached an agreement that will have them paid wages equal to the top 1% of workers as a minimum, on major government projects. This is partly politics, partly because major infrastructure projects are one of the only things keeping this country artificially in growth.

Notably this doesn't apply to significant sections of the construction labour force, only for those workers on major government infrastructure projects, which are largely closed shops. Workers building domestic houses will still be paid shocking wages to work in terrible conditions.

Effectively this provides surplus wealth to a labour aristocracy at the direct expense of other government workers including healthcare workers in particular, who have average to terrible conditions and insane workloads.

Win for workers or another example of a politically connected minority extracting surplus wealth?
1 post omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1833206

Well it's likely not permanent, although workers on these projects are being paid a lot more than they usually would, such a situation usually comes about to explain why the project in turn costs the taxpayer so much money. Government contracted construction is such a common target for such scams to transfer money from the state to the bourgeoisie.

So I'd not go to the point of saying these workers are labour aristocrats, their income is still just a fair weather as anyone else's and they'll be back to regular tradie wages as soon as there's too much heat on government spending on infrastructure projects.

 No.1833857

>>1832651
labor aristocracy doesnt have to result from imperialism it can also come about as a result of a skills shortage as highly skilled workers ex: engineers can demand a higher wage and better treatment, what stalin called the technical intelligensia, ironically the exact class that came to dominate the soviet government and eventually betrayed the USSR for its own class interests as they were jealous of their western counterparts relative living standard and prestige.

 No.1834178

There are 2 types of labor aristocracy:
doles paid out by imperialist governments to the unemployed (farmers in the West are such workers on the doles, and not economically useful people);
and then there is the fact of "drift" of certain professions between borders, and concetration of bankers, doctors and programmers etc in the imperial core

First type MUST BE destroyed because they are straight up parasites. Second type will get abolished simply by developing production forces elsewhere

 No.1834206

File: 1713937840271-0.png (4.07 MB, 4000x3509, world wealth map.png)

>>1832651
The "labor aristocracy" isn't something you have to worry about unless the proletariat supports imperialism. In fact, that's basically the entire thrust behind this theory. Certain sections of the proletariat get paid more because they take on some degree of the loot taken from exploited nations, thus tying their material interests to the maintenance of imperialism.

I don't know about Australia, but in the United States it was essentially a way to explain why the AFL-CIO was so chauvinistic in the 60s and 70s and today, after the AFL-CIO has essentially crumbled to dust, is used by Gonzaloids and other assorted Maoids to justify counter-cultural contrarianism to claim that anyone they don't like who possesses any comfort or luxury whatsoever is one of these, despite the fact that imperialist wars are controversial at best among the American public and the American proletariat no longer sees any real material gain from imperialist adventures.

 No.1834207

>>1832651
The labor aristocracy is falling apart in the west and has been since 2008, but especially 2020. Basically all the traditional middle class jobs that arose around the turn of the 20th century and became the "dream" around the mid 20th century is basically over. The PMCs are being gutted basically leaving labor to purely service jobs which themselves are falling apart. Imagine what happens when they automate food delivery and taxis, you basically can say goodbye to that as well. Because AI is taking the labor intensive jobs and also the managerial jobs, all I can say is the future is grim for the human race.



File: 1713795906255.jpg (680.24 KB, 1964x1570, cognitive bias codex.jpg)

 No.1832240[Reply]

Political discourse has dropped off a cliff. No one could blame people for this. The political problems of today are massive in scale, existential in importance, and often deeply personal.
However, this is keeping anything from being done. This will continue. People will drive their party to take action, which will cause a backlash effect, halting progress in any direction.
Some people believe that the only way forward is the complete breakdown of the social order. These people are waiting for the violence to start. But we have to believe in a better way, or else we will eventually wind right back up where we are. No political system lasts forever, and even if your particular political utopia takes place, it can eventually devolve into what we have now.

What we need to avoid this is better tools - better tools for making decisions, better tools for informing the public, and better tools to direct our area of focus.
One of the things that I believe holding us back on this point is the present-day structure of political disagreements. That is to say - little or no structure at all.

When there are disagreements on a political point, the most productive way, currently, to resolve these disagreements (or at least air them out) is political debate. Ask yourself - is even the most well-run and polite political debate the best way to present an argument for the general public to make an assessment of who is correct for themselves?
First of all, it's nearly impossible to address every argument and piece of evidence provided. Arguments spread out like an infinitely deep tree structure - every argument can have one or more counter-argument, which can all be supported by one or more pieces of evidence, which can all have issues, and all those issues can have counter-points, and all those counter-points can have counter-points, ad infinitum… Even if you could present this in the theoretically perfect debate, and no one could follow it - and even if you could, you would have to look up all the citations for yourself. Even after all that research, there is little way for you to contribute to the argument other than start a whole new debate from scratch, which likely would not be perfect!

I propose that a Wiki-like structure is a more ideal way to structure an argument on any topic.
The initial topic of argument can be laid out with points and supporting arguments from each side. One or more counter-arguments can be liPost too long. Click here to view the full text.
24 posts and 6 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1833312

>>1832578
I don't claim my idea can fix all of the problems with society, and I do agree there are huge benefits to a shared moral framework, however I still think my idea is worthwhile.
While it can't solve lack of social cohesion in everyday life and doesn't try to, it at least (theoretically) changes the context of our political discussions from adversarial to collaborative. I take issue with the idea that it is merely "tinkering" with the political discourse - I really believe this has the potential to change it by altering its context.
How are we supposed to solve anything if we can't talk to eachother? Say there is a possibility this type of system could lead us back to a shared moral framework by revealing your ideas as the most substantiated. You would rather everything fall apart first before that could happen? What's to stop it from happening again? What's the harm in trying?

 No.1833314

>>1833127
It does give me some feedback through lack of feedback, it tells me the idea of working with your political enemies is not so insulting to people in this context that they won't get distracted by another argument.

 No.1833455

>>1832240
>Political discourse has dropped off a cliff
did it though ? yeah we have more spectacle, because we consume more media, but realistically bourgeois democracy was always shit, liberalism offering a dead end and this realization and disenchantment of people for it is the real reason people perceive a decline in the political sphere

 No.1833466

>>1832240
>Political discourse has dropped off a cliff. No one could blame people for this.
Where? Among which people? Around which subjects?

 No.1833864

>>1832920
>>1832987

Two can play at this game:

Labeling scientific findings you do not like as “bourgeois” or “porky” is reactionary.

Wanting to ban drugs and undialectical.

Opposing decriminalization efforts is bourgeois decadence.

Being a stuck-up puritan is revisionism.



File: 1713747742642.png (1.98 MB, 2801x1639, ClipboardImage.png)

 No.1831705[Reply]

How can the Socialist economic calculation problem be solved? Didn't Ludwig von Mises say that socialism has a major problem that has something to do with information or something? Apparently it's a big problem capitalists seem to have with socialism, and part of the reason why many of them oppose it.

Pic rel is not a reflection of my political views.
25 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1832661

>>1831885
Exactly this. Capitalists' opposition to socialism is for no other reason than pure self-interest, regardless of how they intellectualize it. And why shouldn't they seek to uphold a system that benefits them? It's the same reason why proletarians become socialists — because it is in *their* material interests.

 No.1832879

>>1831872
Prior to contemporary cybersocialism, what were other attempts to respond to the calculation problem critique? I'm already aware of Kantorovich, and have heard Dobb and Neurath brought up in passing.

 No.1833398

>>1832134
Who outright said this?

 No.1833658


 No.1833754

>>1832879
lange-lerner model also comes to mind though cockshott actually addresses this and previous models in his works. just read some of this pdfs



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